Originally by: Kathryn Dougans

---

Would having new players get killed during the tutorial be a good thing?

i.e. they're flying about doing their stuff, they kill the puny npc that is there, then a big npc arrives to kill them, and possibly their pod as well.

Then Aura comes on with her soothing voice and says "You got killed, well, these things happen. There's a lot you can do to prevent this happening, but ultimately you are always at risk in space. Keep your clone updated and don't fly what you can't afford to lose, and you'll do fine."

Thereby acclimitising people right from the beginning to losing ships and pods? They've lost a noobship and noobclone, neither of which costs anything, so it's not like they're out of pocket.

---

Originally by: Jacob Mei

---

What point would that have?

---

Originally by: Kathryn Dougans

---

Would having new players get killed during the tutorial be a good thing?

i.e. they're flying about doing their stuff, they kill the puny npc that is there, then a big npc arrives to kill them, and possibly their pod as well.

Then Aura comes on with her soothing voice and says "You got killed, well, these things happen. There's a lot you can do to prevent this happening, but ultimately you are always at risk in space. Keep your clone updated and don't fly what you can't afford to lose, and you'll do fine."

Thereby acclimitising people right from the beginning to losing ships and pods? They've lost a noobship and noobclone, neither of which costs anything, so it's not like they're out of pocket.

---

Originally by: Kathryn Dougans

---

Would having new players get killed during the tutorial be a good thing?

i.e. they're flying about doing their stuff, they kill the puny npc that is there, then a big npc arrives to kill them, and possibly their pod as well.

Then Aura comes on with her soothing voice and says "You got killed, well, these things happen. There's a lot you can do to prevent this happening, but ultimately you are always at risk in space. Keep your clone updated and don't fly what you can't afford to lose, and you'll do fine."

Thereby acclimitising people right from the beginning to losing ships and pods? They've lost a noobship and noobclone, neither of which costs anything, so it's not like they're out of pocket.

---

Originally by: Dirk Magnum

---

I think that just telling players during the tutorial that everyone dies eventually in this game, some more than others, should suffice.

---

Quote:

---

Also like was said, it sends the wrong message. Specifically, the message that there's such a thing as unavoidable death, which is totally wrong.

---

Originally by: Venkul Mul

---

Trying to get a ban for griefing new player removed as you were doing a service for the community?

---

Originally by: Kathryn Dougans

---

Quote:

---

Also like was said, it sends the wrong message. Specifically, the message that there's such a thing as unavoidable death, which is totally wrong.

---

could you expand on this, please? Intent is to show that death happens as part of normal gameplay, but also that players have options to prevent this happening to them.

---

Originally by: Kathryn Dougans

---

Would having new players get killed during the tutorial be a good thing?

---

Quote:

---

Also like was said, it sends the wrong message. Specifically, the message that there's such a thing as unavoidable death, which is totally wrong.

---

Originally by: Constance Harme

---

Quote:

---

Also like was said, it sends the wrong message. Specifically, the message that there's such a thing as unavoidable death, which is totally wrong.

---

could you expand on this, please? Intent is to show that death happens as part of normal gameplay, but also that players have options to prevent this happening to them.

---

Originally by: Reaver One

---

I have a similar idea.

Create a special solar system in each empire. This system is effectively 0.0 space. All new players will start here.

Each system would have one station with a special market selling only T1 ammo and basic expendables, a repair facility, a clone bank and that's it. The station is protected by sentry guns that would light up anyone who fires a weapon within 60k.

Anyone who has left the system (or anyone who has started playing the game before this change takes effect) is considered a capsuleer.

THe number of newbies in-system would be unlimited. Capsuleers can only enter this system by paying a 1 million ISK charge, and a maximum of 15 capsuleers would be allowed in-systed at any time.

Capsuleers wanting to enter the system can only do so if their ship is a T1 frigate, and only if the ship is fitted entirely with unnamed T1 modules and standard charges/expendables.

Newbies can only "graduate" to being capsuleers by leaving the system. They are not penalized in any way when killed, and simply respawn at the station. Their ships are armed with two civillian gatling guns (no mining laser).

Newbies receive an additional 1 ISK per hit point of damage they inflict on capsuleers (awarded after they leave the system). They receive a 10,000 ISK bounty if the manage to inflict the final blow on a capsuleer.

Capsuleers receive a 5,000 ISK bounty for any newbie ship they destroy, and a 1000 ISK bounty for any newbie they pod. Capsuleers cannot choose to spawn at the station in this system.

Let the slaughter begin.

---

Quote:

---

Easiest way to convince hundreds of new players NOT to subscribe after their free time is up. Terrible idea. Not everyone is into EvE for the PvP, and those who dont are still entitled to do what they want.They shouldnt be forced in any particular direction. This is a "sandbox" game after all.

---

Originally by: Ordon Gundar

---

Easiest way to convince hundreds of new players NOT to subscribe after their free time is up. Terrible idea. Not everyone is into EvE for the PvP, and those who dont are still entitled to do what they want.They shouldnt be forced in any particular direction. This is a "sandbox" game after all.

---

Originally by: CCP Fear

---

This has been discussed Internally. In it's current form, the tutorial will not kill a new player, as death is not really fun in any shape or form. The resulting emotion is failure and thus he is less likely to like the game, as he already doesn't like the game based on his first attempt.

---

Originally by: Abrazzar

---

*stuffs*

---

Originally by: CCP Fear

---

This has been discussed Internally. In it's current form, the tutorial will not kill a new player, as death is not really fun in any shape or form. The resulting emotion is failure and thus he is less likely to like the game, as he already doesn't like the game based on his first attempt.

However, this can be argued against. There are several ideas that have been passed on regarding this, such as; They would learn that the loss of a ship isn't the end of the world, move on.

I tend to agree, to a point. I am not that convinced that destroying a ship of a new player, make him suffer is a good strategy. However, it could be scripted, in such a way that it doesn't affect him. Rather that he aquires a new ship or something while doing the tutorial, while explaining that losing ships is ok, and you can always get a new one etc.

That is perhaps not the right way to go, the current way seems to be working well enough, but we can probably always do better, and we will keep doing that.

I guess it all comes down to perspective, and where we can find that middle ground that suits everyone.

Or does that exist at all?

---

Originally by: Angela Toren

---

Sorry but if players are dying in the tutorial then they need to uninstall EVE and re-install Hello Kitty Island Adventure.

---

Originally by: Abrazzar

---

Or you could add a 'Get blow up' Tutorial. There the newb can go through all the steps of attacking the wrong target, exploding and hopping into a new noobship.

--- stuff: go up there ^ and read it ---

Allowing new players to go through a controlled demolition might prepare them for their first real loss and helps them to deal with it in a more confident manner. After all, getting blown up is a major part of the game and displaying it as something that isn't too much to worry about and might be actually fun, could reduce the amount of players that quit in a fit of frustration after their first uncontrolled ship loss.

---

Originally by: CCP Fear

---

This has been discussed Internally. In it's current form, the tutorial will not kill a new player, as death is not really fun in any shape or form. The resulting emotion is failure and thus he is less likely to like the game, as he already doesn't like the game based on his first attempt.

*snip*

I tend to agree, to a point. I am not that convinced that destroying a ship of a new player, make him suffer is a good strategy.

---

Originally by: Treelox

---

Well I am for it. Ofc I am constantly shocked by the ammount of newbies I run across who do not start nor complete the tutorial.

---

Originally by: CCP Fear

---

I guess it all comes down to perspective, and where we can find that middle ground that suits everyone.
Or does that exist at all?

---

Originally by: Tommy TenKreds

---

Edited by: Tommy TenKreds on 08/05/2008 16:44:42

Originally by: CCP Fear

---

This has been discussed Internally. In it's current form, the tutorial will not kill a new player, as death is not really fun in any shape or form. The resulting emotion is failure and thus he is less likely to like the game, as he already doesn't like the game based on his first attempt.

---

Quitters are****gots, who cares?

---

Originally by: CCP Fear

---

I tend to agree, to a point. I am not that convinced that destroying a ship of a new player, make him suffer is a good strategy. However, it could be scripted, in such a way that it doesn't affect him. Rather that he aquires a new ship or something while doing the tutorial, while explaining that losing ships is ok, and you can always get a new one etc.

---

Originally by: Dark Shikari

---

The problem with killing Jesus is he always just respawns 3 days later anyways.

Originally by: ElCoCo

---

There is a very easy way to reward a player that dies in the tutorial.

Make it so that when he loses his ship (in a specific tutorial mission where he'll be guaranteed to lose it), he receives a higher tier frigate so that he'll feels the pain of losing something, but when he "completes" the mission he'll get new hope in the form of a better ship (RP:like an apology from the agent that he didn't calculate the risk involved either) and will be more careful next time.

Watcha think?

---

Originally by: Zakgram

---

stuff

---

Originally by: ElCoCo

---

There is a very easy way to reward a player that dies in the tutorial.

Make it so that when he loses his ship (in a specific tutorial mission where he'll be guaranteed to lose it), he receives a higher tier frigate so that he'll feels the pain of losing something, but when he "completes" the mission he'll get new hope in the form of a better ship (RP:like an apology from the agent that he didn't calculate the risk involved either) and will be more careful next time.

Watcha think?

---

Originally by: Zakgram

---

Catapult them to 0.0, somewhere about 5 jumps from low sec.

---

Originally by: Poreuomai

---

You'd have to make it clear that this never ever happens ingame ... hmm new feature idea?

---

Originally by: CCP Fear

---

Or does that exist at all?

---

Originally by: CCP Fear

---

I tend to agree, to a point. I am not that convinced that destroying a ship of a new player, make him suffer is a good strategy. However, it could be scripted, in such a way that it doesn't affect him. Rather that he aquires a new ship or something while doing the tutorial, while explaining that losing ships is ok, and you can always get a new one etc.

That is perhaps not the right way to go, the current way seems to be working well enough, but we can probably always do better, and we will keep doing that.

I guess it all comes down to perspective, and where we can find that middle ground that suits everyone.

Or does that exist at all?

---

Originally by: Winterblink

---

The tutorial continues.
Later during an unrelated section of the tutorial, say something dealing with mining, or whatever, you get jumped by associates of the NPC you offed earlier. They get in, perma-scramble+web you, and proceed to tear you to bits. Helpless, your ship is blown to pieces. They leave, happy with teaching you that lesson.
Tutorial girl comes back with some RP blatherings about how they've been identified for later destruction by more experienced pilots, but for now hey that's what can happen anywhere in New Eden, so lets get you a new noob frigate.

---

Originally by: CCP Fear

---

This has been discussed Internally. In it's current form, the tutorial will not kill a new player, as death is not really fun in any shape or form. The resulting emotion is failure and thus he is less likely to like the game, as he already doesn't like the game based on his first attempt.

However, this can be argued against. There are several ideas that have been passed on regarding this, such as; They would learn that the loss of a ship isn't the end of the world, move on.

I tend to agree, to a point. I am not that convinced that destroying a ship of a new player, make him suffer is a good strategy. However, it could be scripted, in such a way that it doesn't affect him. Rather that he aquires a new ship or something while doing the tutorial, while explaining that losing ships is ok, and you can always get a new one etc.

That is perhaps not the right way to go, the current way seems to be working well enough, but we can probably always do better, and we will keep doing that.

I guess it all comes down to perspective, and where we can find that middle ground that suits everyone.

Or does that exist at all?

---

Originally by: HarderThisTime

---

I think it'd be a great idea.
Introduce them to all forms of failure [etc]

---