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Why no love for stealth bombers?

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Element 22 Gallente	Posted - 2008.05.03 00:24:00 - [1] Now, I don't fly a stealth bomber, and may never will, I'm beginning to heavily invest in hybrids, but I was looking at the stealth bombers in game and was thinking that they look pretty tasty. I had only seen one ingame before and didn't really see it's capability because they followed me to a station where the sentries took care of them . So I fired up EFT to see how they would work out and was sorely dissappointed. The whole premise of the SB is to warp in put in a volley or two of hurt and GTFO. Now this I totally agree with, but the ships in their current state don't seem to be able to fulfill this role: -They can't warp in cloaked, I understand that this is supposed to be the big thing that sets them apart from covert ops ships, and it's not a terrible burden, but it does seem to defeat the purpose of being all stealth like. -Their volley damage is pathetic, seriously. even with faction missiles they can't break the 3000 volley mark. They can one volley a frigate, maybe, because you rarely see frigates in low sec and 0.0 unless they're intercepters or T2 (or the odd T1 user like me ) in which case they'll take reduced damage or most likely warp out before your missiles even reach them. They should be able to take down T1 cruisers in 2-3 volleys which I can't see them doing now. -Make it harder to target them, they're stealth bombers and as such should have a longer targeting time, which fit's in perfectly with the fact that they can't cloak locked. - Make them bombers! They're supposed to be in and out, have the bombs they drop go off sooner then 15 seconds, no it isn't really fair to those being bombed, but it totally nerfs the bombs to almost no use I can see. suggested changes: -Make the bombers have 4 missile hardpoints and make bombs have their own hardpoints or change the duration drastically. -Give them a way to get in cloaked, like a pseudo warpdrive that costs fuel and let's them jump inside the solar system because while SB can be a good solo roamer, they shine in the role their RL counterparts play: mobile heavy fire on call. -Bombs should either have a lower timer, higher armor, or go off for reduced damage when shot at. -Oh and give recons an anti-cloak bubble ability because there should be a way to deal with cloaked ships. /puts on asbestos wizard hat and robe Flame away, especially about how I don't know what I'm talking about, because I don't and would love (not sarcastic) to know where I'm wrong and what I got wrong and what I got right (if anything).
Hannobaal Gallente Shadow Forces Inc.	Posted - 2008.05.03 01:09:00 - [2] Originally by: Element 22 The whole premise of the SB is to warp in put in a volley or two of hurt and GTFO. Not really. It's more to sit in a group of 3+ bombers and 2+ interceptors (and maybe an interdictor). When something comes through, the interceptors tackle, and the bombers decloak, dampen the targets and then melt them in no time with their high dps. Quote: -Make it harder to target them, they're stealth bombers and as such should have a longer targeting time, which fit's in perfectly with the fact that they can't cloak locked. Remote Sensor Dampeners
Darth Kenzie Amarr Ganja Labs Insurgency	Posted - 2008.05.03 02:06:00 - [3] Also sit at enemy jumpbridges and melt haulers as they jump in... tell me thats not a great use of time.
Megan Maynard Minmatar Out of Order	Posted - 2008.05.03 02:29:00 - [4] I didn't have a problem with mine today when we were taking out a geddon's tank with me and a curse. Bombers can spit out some serious alpha. More then most Battleships.
Radcjk Caldari Dark Star LTD Atrocitas	Posted - 2008.05.03 03:20:00 - [5] I had some constructive responses but typing them was taking too long. I'm also too tired to find an appropriate sized flame thrower. That said, you do realize that the SB deals out a volley of damage, as a FRIGATE, thats second only to battleships dont you ? I wont bother trying to clarify or explain others things you have issues about. Please, for the safety of our children, don't EFT warrior and whine. It makes your unborn child stupid.
Athamai	Posted - 2008.05.03 03:31:00 - [6] High dps? Their DPS is terrible. Their alpha strike is good but sustained is just terrible. I like most people trained for a SB and have never really found a good use for it. They sound awesome on paper but the few times I've actually used one it's been disappointing. I'm sure they would be funny in a group of 10..But so are battleships. Originally by: Hannobaal Originally by: Element 22 The whole premise of the SB is to warp in put in a volley or two of hurt and GTFO. Not really. It's more to sit in a group of 3+ bombers and 2+ interceptors (and maybe an interdictor). When something comes through, the interceptors tackle, and the bombers decloak, dampen the targets and then melt them in no time with their high dps. Quote: -Make it harder to target them, they're stealth bombers and as such should have a longer targeting time, which fit's in perfectly with the fact that they can't cloak locked. Remote Sensor Dampeners
SirSpectre Gallente Spartan Industrial Manufacturing SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.03 04:27:00 - [7] So then you haven't used Bombs then? Ive insta popped BS's with a group of 2 of us. Bombers are awesomely fun! Seeing the You hit XXXX Dealing 9,000 or so damage is pretty damn hilarious.
Element 22 Gallente	Posted - 2008.05.03 04:31:00 - [8] Originally by: Radcjk That said, you do realize that the SB deals out a volley of damage, as a FRIGATE, thats second only to battleships dont you ? That's my point, it's a frigate, that does has the exact same alpha as a BS, but it can't warp in cloaked, it can't tank anything and it be great with that alpha if it wasn't for the fact that it uses missiles. And they take a lot of time. I see that it has a lot of power and potential, but atm I don't see it going very well one way or another. Alpha strikes are only good for instapoping and large gangs doing the same. So this would be useful in a gang of 3 or 4 (as mentioned) but even then you're taking 3-4 high priced frigates to take down a crusier, because even with that alpha that's all the gang could really do.
Raymond Sterns Utopian Research I.E.L. The ENTITY.	Posted - 2008.05.03 06:23:00 - [9] I'd like to be able to shoot a volley and cloak back without having to worry about my missiles disappearing. It would be a whole lot more useful in lowsec.
Hannobaal Gallente Shadow Forces Inc.	Posted - 2008.05.03 06:25:00 - [10] Originally by: Athamai High dps? Their DPS is terrible. Show me the frigate in Eve that can do anywhere the dps of a stealth bommber from outside of web range, let alone from more than 100 km out. Even compared to short range (blasters/autocannons) tech 2 frigates they have pretty good damage. Compared to anything else frigate size, there's just no competition.
Hannobaal Gallente Shadow Forces Inc.	Posted - 2008.05.03 06:32:00 - [11] Originally by: Raymond Sterns I'd like to be able to shoot a volley and cloak back without having to worry about my missiles disappearing. It would be a whole lot more useful in lowsec. Assuming you could do that, what could you accomplish with it that you can't allready right now? About the only thing you could kill in a single volley from one bomber is a tech 1 frigate, but you're allready able to easily kill those (not that most of them are worth shooting in the first place) and I doubt anyone you don't kill in one volley is going to stick around and just wait until you uncloak again and fire off the next. Besides, if you use damps and align for warp before uncloaking (just in case), you're pretty much uncatchable either way.
Tasko Pal Heron Corporation	Posted - 2008.05.03 08:49:00 - [12] Originally by: Hannobaal Originally by: Raymond Sterns I'd like to be able to shoot a volley and cloak back without having to worry about my missiles disappearing. It would be a whole lot more useful in lowsec. Assuming you could do that, what could you accomplish with it that you can't allready right now? You'd be able to one-shot t1 frigates in a gang. You can't damp a whole gang. And being able to warp right away improves your mobility and survivability a lot.
RetroVertigo RONA Corporation RONA Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.03 09:25:00 - [13] 2 bombers and a mimi recon can setup a pretty awesome bubble camp and just wreck everything that comes through, mind you we would let BS past usually, but if ANYTHING smaller showed up it died, we even got a counter fleet thrown at us and we killed 3-4 of them before they popped the bubble and ran off, it was hilarious to just sit and throw missile after missile at people and damp the hell out of them from like 70km off, mine you that you would cloak up and hide the second a cepter showed up, they are a very sneaky ship that can be very effective against targets WAY larger than themselves, the only thing i would like to see is either the ability to cloaked warp, or VASTLY faster missiles, like honestly a +50% speed bonus to missiles would be awesome and make them way more balanced, then also make them slow as a brick and paper thin...well moreso...
Hannobaal Gallente Shadow Forces Inc.	Posted - 2008.05.03 09:56:00 - [14] Originally by: Tasko Pal You'd be able to one-shot t1 frigates in a gang. 1. Can allready do that, and safely. And you don't need to dampen the entire gang. Even if they lock you while the missiles are heading in, you are in warp and out of there the millisecond that they hit because you will have aligned for warp before you uncloaked and you'll be sitting outside of warp disruptor range. 2. Is killing tech 1 frigates really worth your time as a Stealth Bomber pilot?
GudsGutt	Posted - 2008.05.03 13:05:00 - [15] SB are not solo ships. A solo SB pilot can kill any regular tech1 frig, and some tech1 cruisers, but thats it. You need to be in a gang to make full use of this ship. SB are good in their intende role. If they ever is going to get buffed, I'd like to see them fitting a covert ops cloak. That would be awesome!
Raymond Sterns Utopian Research I.E.L. The ENTITY.	Posted - 2008.05.03 14:11:00 - [16] Edited by: Raymond Sterns on 03/05/2008 14:11:31 Originally by: Hannobaal Originally by: Tasko Pal You'd be able to one-shot t1 frigates in a gang. 1. Can allready do that, and safely. And you don't need to dampen the entire gang. Even if they lock you while the missiles are heading in, you are in warp and out of there the millisecond that they hit because you will have aligned for warp before you uncloaked and you'll be sitting outside of warp disruptor range. 2. Is killing tech 1 frigates really worth your time as a Stealth Bomber pilot? Yes, what is wrong with killing a Frigate that is most likely loaded with Ewar? To me, a BOMBER (Not Stealthed) shouldn't be a solo target at all. A STEALTH BOMBER on the other hand should be a hit and run ship, only able to solo Frigates. Being able to decloak, shoot volley, and cloak again maintains my element of surprise from far away distances. If we were close range, we'd be using Torpedos instead.
Hannobaal Gallente Shadow Forces Inc.	Posted - 2008.05.03 17:03:00 - [17] Originally by: Raymond Sterns Edited by: Raymond Sterns on 03/05/2008 14:11:31 Originally by: Hannobaal Originally by: Tasko Pal You'd be able to one-shot t1 frigates in a gang. 1. Can allready do that, and safely. And you don't need to dampen the entire gang. Even if they lock you while the missiles are heading in, you are in warp and out of there the millisecond that they hit because you will have aligned for warp before you uncloaked and you'll be sitting outside of warp disruptor range. 2. Is killing tech 1 frigates really worth your time as a Stealth Bomber pilot? Yes, what is wrong with killing a Frigate that is most likely loaded with Ewar? To me, a BOMBER (Not Stealthed) shouldn't be a solo target at all. A STEALTH BOMBER on the other hand should be a hit and run ship, only able to solo Frigates. Being able to decloak, shoot volley, and cloak again maintains my element of surprise from far away distances. If we were close range, we'd be using Torpedos instead. So, basically you're just enamored with the idea itself of uncloaking suddenly, taken people by surprise, picking off a small ship and then cloaking again (like a little "sub"), instead of actually looking at the Stealth Bombers as we have them in-game, what they can actually do/not do and what the best ways to use them are? Because I can think of much worthier uses for them than that in a small gang of tech 2 frigates. Granted, groups of Force Recons can do what the bombers do only a lot better, but then again there is a big sp and price difference there.
Raymond Sterns Utopian Research I.E.L. The ENTITY.	Posted - 2008.05.03 21:54:00 - [18] Originally by: Hannobaal Because I can think of much worthier uses Like?
Dristra Amarr Shadows of the Dead R0ADKILL	Posted - 2008.05.03 21:57:00 - [19] Just let the hound fit 1400mm artillery, sex on a stick.
Dheorl The Scope	Posted - 2008.05.03 22:55:00 - [20] They do have uses. Go sit in a belt with a mate in another sb and maybe a ceptor and pop anyone cruiser and below that comes near. They are also great (well maybe not great but good and also fun) for static gangs because they can chuck of a fair bit of dps and when flown by a decent pilot are very hard to kill.
Geran Baur Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.05.03 23:15:00 - [21] Hello, I'm fairly new to the game (see, 2.5 weeks in so far) and am currently working my way towards piloting a SB. I have two quick questions: 1) What is a good set up for running a group of 2-3 ships? Ideally we would have a tackler(not me), so I wouldn't be in dire need of any scramblers/webbers. 2) Any good solo setups out there for ratting/light PvP?
Element 22 Gallente	Posted - 2008.05.03 23:47:00 - [22] I understand that they can sit stationary and then popup for massive damage, but to me, that's not a stealth bomber, that's a cloaked sentry. And as for popping up in groups, you could do the same thing for half the price and same number of people with a couple thoraxs or for 1/3 of the price with more people if you use frigate frenzies. It appears that I'm thinking of them in the "how I want" rather then the "what they are"
Dheorl The Scope	Posted - 2008.05.04 00:10:00 - [23] Well once you've made it onto a battlefield you can move around and pop up from anywhere and the cloak, change position and do it all again. So once your there they fit the name stealth bomber perfectly (can pop up anywhere, blow the crap outta someone and then fly off and do it all again), they just aren't very stealth when they arrive but once the fight has started unless someones paying pretty close attention to overview no-one is gona notice a SB which only shows up for a split second.
Raymond Sterns Utopian Research I.E.L. The ENTITY.	Posted - 2008.05.04 14:51:00 - [24] Edited by: Raymond Sterns on 04/05/2008 14:56:57 Originally by: Dheorl Well once you've made it onto a battlefield you can move around and pop up from anywhere and the cloak, change position and do it all again. So once your there they fit the name stealth bomber perfectly (can pop up anywhere, blow the crap outta someone and then fly off and do it all again), they just aren't very stealth when they arrive but once the fight has started unless someones paying pretty close attention to overview no-one is gona notice a SB which only shows up for a split second. There's a very distinguishable sound that can be heard from 300km when you cloak and uncloak. The stealth bomber is only stealthy if it sits and waits for someone. Lets take a look at the definitions: stealth(stělth) n. 1.The act of moving, proceeding, or acting in a covert way. 2.The quality or characteristic of being furtive or covert. bomb+er(bŏm'ər) n. 1.a military aircraft that drops bombs during flight 2.a person who plants bombs 3.a large sandwich made of a long crusty roll split lengthwise and filled with meats and cheese (and tomato and onion and lettuce and condiments); different names are used in different sections of the United States. cov+ert(kŭv'ərt, kō'vərt, kō-vvrt') adj. 1.concealed; secret; disguised. 2.covered; sheltered. n. 3.a covering; cover. 4.concealment or disguise. Doesn't really sound like our stealth bomber now, does it?
Bloody Rabbit Jita Miners	Posted - 2008.05.04 16:00:00 - [25] Originally by: Raymond Sterns 3.a large sandwich made of a long crusty roll split lengthwise and filled with meats and cheese (and tomato and onion and lettuce and condiments); different names are used in different sections of the United States. Doesn't really sound like our stealth bomber now, does it? I like this one the best
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.05.04 16:08:00 - [26] Here's an idea. Instead of letting them warp cloaked... let them travel much faster while cloaked. Whether this is due to letting mwd/ab be active under cloak, or just a flat out giant speed bonus while cloaked (and while cloaked only). This allows a lot more mobility throughout a single battlefield, to pop up, fire, maybe 2 salvos, drop again to cloak and reposition without having to worry about ceptors or drones or whatnot uncloaking you. $.02
Dheorl The Scope	Posted - 2008.05.04 16:09:00 - [27] Edited by: Dheorl on 04/05/2008 16:10:47 Of course they are going know when you pop up (if they are paying that much attention which unless your solo not many people do) but they aren't going to have any idea where your going to pop up. They can move at reasonable speed whilst cloaked (stealth) and they can drop bombs. I would have said stealth bomber sounds like a reasonably accurate name to me. Originally by: AstroPhobic Here's an idea. Instead of letting them warp cloaked... let them travel much faster while cloaked. Whether this is due to letting mwd/ab be active under cloak, or just a flat out giant speed bonus while cloaked (and while cloaked only). This allows a lot more mobility throughout a single battlefield, to pop up, fire, maybe 2 salvos, drop again to cloak and reposition without having to worry about ceptors or drones or whatnot uncloaking you. $.02 Is it just me who does this as it is?
Raymond Sterns Utopian Research I.E.L. The ENTITY.	Posted - 2008.05.04 16:57:00 - [28] Edited by: Raymond Sterns on 04/05/2008 16:57:47 Originally by: Dheorl Edited by: Dheorl on 04/05/2008 16:10:47 Of course they are going know when you pop up And that's where Stealth Bombers stop being stealthy. Good day, sir.
Kyra Felann Gallente Noctis Fleet Technologies	Posted - 2008.05.04 16:58:00 - [29] Originally by: AstroPhobic Here's an idea. Instead of letting them warp cloaked... let them travel much faster while cloaked. Whether this is due to letting mwd/ab be active under cloak, or just a flat out giant speed bonus while cloaked (and while cloaked only). This allows a lot more mobility throughout a single battlefield, to pop up, fire, maybe 2 salvos, drop again to cloak and reposition without having to worry about ceptors or drones or whatnot uncloaking you. They can already move faster cloaked than uncloaked. At max skills they can move around 800m/s, which is pretty fast for a cloaked ship.
Dheorl The Scope	Posted - 2008.05.04 17:03:00 - [30] Originally by: Raymond Sterns Edited by: Raymond Sterns on 04/05/2008 16:57:47 Originally by: Dheorl Edited by: Dheorl on 04/05/2008 16:10:47 Of course they are going know when you pop up And that's where Stealth Bombers stop being stealthy. Good day, sir. And the moment it pops up it will be shooting you. It would be absurb if it could blow you up without you having a clue where it was. It can quite merily move around and position itself steathly. Blowing stuff up steathly is impossible no matter how you look at it.

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