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The Solution to the Titan Problem

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
5n4keyes Sacred Templars DeStInY.	Posted - 2008.05.05 23:08:00 - [61] Personally ide like to see the DD removed. Insted replaced with a bonus to something every titan fits! Smartbombs... A bonus to damage and range, would certainly make the Titan a ***** to commit to killing, aswell as something that could still cause alot of damage. Some will say, omg, overpowered, but think of it as this, if you want to tackle a titan, you have to be able to take the damage, and yep ok, the smartbomb can reach out and hit you, but its all part of the risk vs reward. This too would also clean up alot of the lag involved in pretty much any capital takedown. Drones, would be virtually useless against a Titan, people would have to use sentrys. Smartbomb bonus would be a pretty good replacement for a DD.
Matsui Hideki Royal Amarr Institute	Posted - 2008.05.05 23:09:00 - [62] Originally by: Princess Jodi The simple way to limit Titans is to have an Upkeep cost associated with them. Set it so that the Insurance and Legal bills from all the planets getting Tidal-Waved as a Titan passes through the system costs the alliance 25 Billion Isk / Month. If not paid, the Titan goes inert and cannot be boarded. Oh, and to spice things up...the Titan becomes lost in space so anyone finding it can pay the bills and reactivate it. Princess Jedi, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this thread is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
mishkof Caldari Dirty Denizens	Posted - 2008.05.05 23:16:00 - [63] Edited by: mishkof on 05/05/2008 23:16:05 I had a more eloquent post written, but the forums ate it. So here it is in a nutshell. no lag = titans fine, lots of lag = titans ghey. Therefor titans are ghey. I own a T2 BPO and Capital alt, therefor all of my views will be pro-Capital Alt/T2 BPO orientated. Please pick one of the following settings for your response. []hate me []troll me []smack me
Caleese New Eden Research And Design School	Posted - 2008.05.05 23:25:00 - [64] There's nothing wrong with a titan. A titan. 1 single titan is fine, it can wipe out your tacklers and some of the support, battleships who haven't tanked for that damage type are also gone, but you would still be left with a significant amount of battleships in your fleet. The problem comes when you have multiple titans, sure you fleet can survive 1 doomsday, maybe even 2, but when one said can put 5, 6, 10 titans on grid and doomsday after doomsday. How is that good for the game? Titans were awesome when there was one or 2, but now... ----------------- Think of someone you consider of average intelligence... now realise this. Half the worlds population is dumber than that person. How does the world survive such stupidity?
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.05 23:34:00 - [65] Originally by: CCP Prism X Edited by: CCP Prism X on 05/05/2008 22:53:12 Originally by: Goumindong Originally by: CCP Prism X Prism X's opinions are in no way related to CCP's internal opinion. He is neither a game balancer nor a Game Designer stuff Oh come on now. I congratulated him on a well written post. Admitted my ignorance in the field of balancing. Added my own take on his suggestion which would be the nuke killer you want. Then disagreed with how he reached his conclusion through the presented logic. So you imply I'm bashing your Alliance and ask me about how much we've studied nuclear war? I've said it time and over again that I like the GoonSwarm! Every good story needs a good antagonist, amongst other reasons. There's nothing wrong with it! I'm crying already! By the gods man, what do you expect of me? The callout on the GS response might have been bad wording on your part, but yea, it was worded in a way to clearly suggest that 315 was suggesting this because he was in Goonswarm. I ask you how much you've studied it because its a study that can lead us to understand these types of games more. We can identify the differences and similarities between the weapons and then use that to form a coherent prediction of what is going to happen when that mechanic is implemented. I know this isn't your job, but oftentimes it seems like its no ones job at CCP to look at the set of tools and say "this is how i would win with this set of tools". Every time someone comes out and says "yea, i think blog anti-blobbing AOEs are a good idea" it just makes me cringe[See: Jade Constantine for a good example of this type of foolishness]. I ask because we can learn things from basic game theory about how the game will be played. And even though game theory as a discipline doesn't account for fun we can apply common sense towards its study and then figure out what people will do when we implement various mechanics. And if we know what people will do when we implement various mechanics all we need is an ideal of what we want people to do and we can balance the game in that manner. But its clearly not being done, and its clearly not being done because we have introduced and kept large scale AoEs which invariably reduce the frequency of combat[and increase its magnitude] rather than decrease the magnitude of combat as was the intention. Big huge ships that do big huge cool things is very cool. But often times its not balanced in a game whose design goals are stated blatantly by the company as Quote: PvP (Player vs. Player) based on strategy, not levels - Tactics have value in EVE Online. Experience and treachery will often beat top-of-the-line modifications and fancy ships. And its certainly not good for the game when you consider its implications on player action. To make a movie analogy its like introducing the Death Star without introducing a Luke Skywalker. Now of course its not so balanced if it only takes one guy to blow up a titan. But without the weakness[and with weapons that hit all ships equally] its unbalanced in the other way. E.G. its like rock, paper, scissors Rock>Scissors>Paper>Rock Titans>Carriers/Dreads>POS/Battleships>Cruisers>Frigates>Titans If we remove that last >titans from the picture then the equation is just "titans > all"[It should be mentioned that these > are not needing to necessarily be absolute for all values, but only at some specific value that is reasonable] This problem also shows up in nano-ships for non-strategic combat. Anyway, i'm rambling now but i'd be happy to explain further if you have any questions. Vote Goumindong for CSM
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.05 23:41:00 - [66] I'm pretty sure Goumindong is the worst poster in all of Goonswarm. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.05 23:44:00 - [67] Originally by: An Anarchyyt I'm pretty sure Goumindong is the worst poster in all of Goonswarm. I was pretty sure it was hydrosan, but look at him be useful in the 20 page Titan thread in Game Dev. Vote Goumindong for CSM
Ephemeron Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.05.05 23:47:00 - [68] Originally by: An Anarchyyt I'm pretty sure Goumindong is the worst poster in all of Goonswarm. It's not that he is the worst poster, but his logic seems to be perpendicular with most other people. There's just no reasoning with a guy like that. If CCP Prism has read anything from the 40 page "nerf nanos" thread, he should know not to take Goumindong seriously.
Kaaii Caldari PixelJuice Design Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2008.05.05 23:49:00 - [69] Originally by: Matsui Hideki ITT: cryalition crying because they couldn't beat BoB /signed... According to Oveur, existing LSAA's already anchored will stay there. kieron Director of Community Relations,
Gefex Genco Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.05.05 23:49:00 - [70] I think the main problem with Titans is they are only fun for the one guy, you have a fleet assembled off you go looking for a fight, then blammo, fleet dead in one shot and you go home. Yeah, fun fight that was. Correct me if i'm wrong but it kinda goes against the grain of trying to encourage PvP. There will come a time when the number of Titans in space in 0.0 will make it pointless to undock in anything less than a capital.

Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.05.05 23:50:00 - [71] hmmm, what about making the DDD work like the dr device from enders game? (aka as it hits stuff that stuff blows up and starts another reaction that blows more stuff up larger explosions the more mass of the target) naturally it wouldn't be an auto blow up for everything and would do similar damage to what it does now but damage would decrease the farther away from the titan unless there was a giant chain of ships. the massive amounts of calculations this might cause though might make for sad pandas or perhaps the optimal + falloff trick, like everything within 30km gets wtfbbqed, but at like 100km its like 50% damage and 200km you end up taking 10% of the damage.
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.05 23:52:00 - [72] Originally by: Ephemeron Originally by: An Anarchyyt I'm pretty sure Goumindong is the worst poster in all of Goonswarm. It's not that he is the worst poster, but his logic seems to be perpendicular with most other people. There's just no reasoning with a guy like that. If CCP Prism has read anything from the 40 page "nerf nanos" thread, he should know not to take Goumindong seriously. You're probably right. But he's also right, it is a hard choice between him and Hydrosan. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.06 00:18:00 - [73] Originally by: Ephemeron Originally by: An Anarchyyt I'm pretty sure Goumindong is the worst poster in all of Goonswarm. It's not that he is the worst poster, but his logic seems to be perpendicular with most other people. There's just no reasoning with a guy like that. If CCP Prism has read anything from the 40 page "nerf nanos" thread, he should know not to take Goumindong seriously. Most peoples logic is personal attacks and arguments to authority. That "my logic" is not that is something i take pride in and something that everyone should strive towards when making decisions and evaluating a game. Vote Goumindong for CSM
Grarr Dexx Amarr Naval Protection Corp Carpe Universitas	Posted - 2008.05.06 01:07:00 - [74] Welcome to evolution.
Orb Lati Minmatar ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.06 01:15:00 - [75] It seems to me that players are not so much concerned about 1 doomsday but multiple doomsdays in a short period of time that will make cap warfare obsolete. One solution to this that would reduce this issue would im my opinion is to add a secondary effect to a Doomsday blast where a 5 minute pocket of 1 Au Deadspace is created in the region of a detonation. The effects of this being: - No doomsdays can be fire within the Deadspace pocket. - Warp is impossible within the detonation pocket preventing follow up support fleet assistance to either side or the titan or surviving ships leaving. - Cynos could still be deployed (if one survives) in the deadspace area. This would mean the titan pilots can still be used against soft targets (BS fleets etc) and could inflict moderate damage to capital fleets but would then need to survive for 5 minutes under fire. The only way to get additional ships in to Deadspace will be via jump bridges and cap jumps. "We worship Strength because it is through strength that all other values are made possible"
Christari Zuborov Amarr Ore Mongers Black Hand.	Posted - 2008.05.06 01:31:00 - [76] I don't know the mechanics around the DDD, but I would hope that firing the DDD causes everything in that solar system damage. This would included POS's, Cyno Jammers, whatever else is in there. I'm not saying 1 DDD should wipe out any of the services, but there should be a cost to using one.
Segge Bolled Caldari Dirty Sexy Pilots New Age Solutions Amalgamated	Posted - 2008.05.06 01:44:00 - [77] Originally by: CCP Prism X (Attention: Prism X's opinions are in no way related to CCP's internal opinion. He is neither a game balancer nor a Game Designer. Anything said in this post is purely his insane ravings and should be in no way interpreted as rational sentences, even though they might seem remotely similar. Anything posted here should not be interpreted as a promise of any redesign on CCP's behalf. In all honesty this man should not be able to blubar posts. If you think you're reading between the lines here you're wrong. Oh so wrong.) "Posters names have been changed in order to protect the innocent"
Vaal Erit Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.05.06 01:48:00 - [78] Originally by: CCP Prism X By the gods man, what do you expect of me? By the gods man, I am sure my $12.95/month can pay for at least 2 or 3 magical fix-everything-now butans.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.06 02:00:00 - [79] Originally by: Segge Bolled "The only winning move, is not to play"? How about a game of tic-tac-toe? fake edit: but really there was a lot of work done on strategic and tactical nukes before coming to that conclusion. Vote Goumindong for CSM
Segge Bolled Caldari Dirty Sexy Pilots New Age Solutions Amalgamated	Posted - 2008.05.06 02:13:00 - [80] I'd have suggested a nice game of Chess, actually

Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.06 02:17:00 - [81] Originally by: Segge Bolled I'd have suggested a nice game of Chess, actually Yea, but i figured no one would actually remember the exact next line. I guess i have underestimated the Eve's Mathew Broderick knowledge base. Vote Goumindong for CSM
Moon Kitten GoonFleet	Posted - 2008.05.06 03:39:00 - [82] The solution is to ban Goumindong.
Grarr Dexx Amarr Naval Protection Corp Carpe Universitas	Posted - 2008.05.06 04:02:00 - [83] I like chess actually.
DigitalCommunist Obsidian Core	Posted - 2008.05.06 04:05:00 - [84] To make supercapitals what they were meant to be, a complete redo is necessary. I'm tired of reading fixes and tweaks, as if the more you simplify and dumb it down, the more likely it is CCP will listen to you. How about someone posts a complete concept for Titans, and thinks it through. Don't tell me what the problem is, just describe what you want to see in the game. _______________________________ http://epicwords.net/
Vio Geraci Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.06 04:05:00 - [85] Part of the problem is proliferation combined with stacking doomsdays, part of it is cyno jammers making every fight asymmetrically in favor of a titan-fielding defend, and part of it is that tanking for a titan makes your support incapable of dealing with enemy support. The doomsday is fundamentally a bad idea, and as outlined in the OP does not scale well or mesh with the other established mechanics in Eve. James' plan work perfectly, and helps fight capital proliferation --which is the biggest mechanical problem for pvpers in Eve right now.
Billy Merc Amarr Pilots Of Honour Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.05.06 04:16:00 - [86] Keep the dd and do what ya did with SB's and WDFG's....script it One script to Area Effect (like now) and one script to OMGWTFPWN single shot other caps
Tyber Raine Caldari Gladiators of Rage DeStInY.	Posted - 2008.05.06 04:19:00 - [87] Is it just me or does this seem like GoonSwarm's Attempt to simply complain that BoB is using what? 8 titans to defend and that b/c they can shoot small ships goon cant just swarm them with t1 cannonfodder and the like. Your logic is flawed also in the fact that you complain that titan's don't use support fleets. It would be like me complaining that you can't drop a Nuke on something without your own troops being destroyed as well. Another thing is if a doomsday only did damage to 1 target then it would simply benefit goon's swarm tactics. This is simply Goon QQing about not being able to break into Delve completely b/c BoB has its back against the wall and pulling out all the stops to avoid obliteration. So what? BoB has a last Bastion in the form of Delve and simply refuses to go down? Who cares just keep fighting and if you win you win if you lose you lose. Don't complain just b/c its hard b/c BoB doesn't want to die. Maybe we should all just self-destruct and leave our clones on alpha so Goon doesn't actually have to work to achieve victory. and by no means am I a BoB lover or a Goonhater b/c I dislike both of you equally but seriously just play the game. If ccp feels that Titans are too powerful then they will nerf it. Just my opinion =/
Billy Merc Amarr Pilots Of Honour Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.05.06 04:20:00 - [88] Edited by: Billy Merc on 06/05/2008 04:20:49 Oh one more thing.... people have dedicated years of there time to training for titans...removing them or "nerfing" them is not real fair in that regard. IMO if u put in the time, you deserve to be, to a degree, god like (ie fly are hard as $hit ship to kill with an onboard bbq for fleets)
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.06 04:22:00 - [89] Originally by: Grarr Dexx I like chess actually. Urge to spoil the joke rising. Vote Goumindong for CSM
Erik Amirault Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.06 04:25:00 - [90] Edited by: Erik Amirault on 06/05/2008 04:35:38 Edited by: Erik Amirault on 06/05/2008 04:28:44 Some points people seem to keep missing. 1. The game can't handle titans Doomsdays as it is (not even one in large battles). If I had to guess, I would say the overwhelming majority of titan kills could have been avoided if the game were capable of allowing players to warp off grid when a titan appears. Most of the time this is not possible. CCP doesn't seem to recognize this because a few players have miraculously lagless gameplay in such situations whereas the overwhelming majority of players do not. 2. The problem isn't one titan or two titans but multiple overlapping titans. 3. Most people have not faced more than 3 titans in a single system. Yet here they are posting away as if the game is perfectly balanced when, in fact, they are ******s who don't know what they are talking about. 4. Just because people have trained for something that was poorly designed from the beginning doesn't mean they should continue to benefit from that poor design.



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