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Ascuris Wurm
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Posted - 2008.05.07 15:40:00 -
[151]
Eve is always about Risk vs Reward. What is the Risk of fielding your Titans and wiping everyone out with DD?
Obviously it makes us think of the Death Star that had the power to destroy a planet, but was destroyed by a fighter with a couple of torpedoes thrown in the right place.
But it also made me think of an old board game called Stratego. The Field Marshall could kill any piece on the board and was the most powerful piece. To balance that, it was only able to be killed by the spy, who could only kill the Marshall and was easily killed by anyone else. To get the spy up to the Marshall without him dying involved sneakiness, strategy and timing. (If you lost your spy your only hope was that the enemy's Field Marshall would accidentally be blown up by one of your mines.)
So along that analogy, it made me think how interesting it would be if the Titan's Achille's heel was a rare and easily destroyed foe... a T2 shuttle that is built from very rare materials, that rams the titan maybe? Or something along those lines. I dunno, just trying to point us in the direction of a simple, elegant solution that is tried and true in other games/platforms/stories...
Wurm
"It's never too late to be what you could have been"
-George Eliot
Especially in Eve-Online
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Merissa Keyes
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Posted - 2008.05.07 15:47:00 -
[152]
Edited by: Merissa Keyes on 07/05/2008 15:47:01
plz delete this post
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Tyber Raine
Caldari
Gladiators of Rage
DeStInY.
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Posted - 2008.05.07 15:47:00 -
[153]
 Originally by: xttz
Originally by: Tyber Raine
Just make titans into a Deathstar that can destroy a single target in one shot or something.
Originally by: Tyber Raine
I have yet to see a Goonie come up with an idea for a fair balancing plan. Most of it is simply mindless spam
I posted the same suggestion as you at the top of the same page. Are you saying that you intentionally came up with an unfair balancing plan yourself, or that you're intentionally not reading 'Goonie' posts in order to claim we post no such plans?
Originally by: Tyber Raine
I do think roving Titan's DDDing smaller fleets is quite silly. If CCP doesn't change anything who knows there is still Empire space lol =P
Originally by: Tyber Raine
It is simply an opinion based on the fact that GoonSwarm can't break through some POS b/c BoB uses multiple titans to prevent the Goonies from taking a system.
Are you intentionally contradicting yourself again just to troll people, or do you have short term memory issues causing you to forget what you wrote 5 lines previously? How can you seriously claim that titans in their current form are 'silly' then proceed to say that all arguements against them are politically motivated trash?
Originally by: Tyber Raine
like if a rookie pilot complained that others can use Capitals
Capitals don't kill every rookie ship on grid in 10 seconds without locking them. In fact, capitals are specifically designed to be weaker against the ships that can tackle them via low scan resolution and bad turret tracking speeds. Writing valid analogies would really help your arguement.
Originally by: Tyber Raine
just quit EvE and go play Hello Kitty Island Adventure
This isn't CAOD. This is a thread about titan balance. If you have some fantastic other MMPORGs you'd like us to play with you, try suggesting them in a new CAOD thread without derailing this one.
Titans (specifically large groups of Titans, which is the crux of this thread) directly counter the only ships that tackle them, and have real potential to also kill entire capital fleets with a critcal mass. We will see this point before this year is over. It has been detailed in several ways how this imbalance is available to any alliance, not just BoB. And while BoB are currently leading the race in titans deployed, several other alliances are close to their numbers. Plenty of people outside of Goonswarm have stated what will happen to Eve if this issue is not addressed.
Titan balance is an issue raised by specific alliance conflicts, not one debated solely in order to win them. Please stop claiming the debate is entirely politically motivated when several valid points have been raised by people with no interest in the BOB/GS war.
First off let me point out that I said I haven't yet to see a good plan posted by a goonie. Second with the exclusion of your post Go ahead and go count how many goon posts are simply QQing.
2nd, You are taking my quotes in the next part out of context to attempt to discredit my argument. I said I find the idea of Roving Titans DDDing smaller fleets. IE maybe if BoB makes 20 titans and they are in a fleet going around DDDing everyone. Yea I find that silly and it is quite possible. That would simply mean a limit of titans is needed not a nerf of titans themselves.
3rd In this quote response I am not talking about a rookie ship vs a capital I am talking about putting in the time and effort to achieve a capital. And by your same argument I could apply it to the Goon's problem with Titan's by saying well that is what titans are for to blow the hell out of smaller ship fleets in one go.
4th The last quote you mined I am not even sure how to take it seriously because I just can't fathom an intelligent response to it much less that it even deserves one.
5th This is directed at you final 2 paragraphs. I have given suggestions myself. If you check I think I was one of if not the first to suggest a grid cooldown on multiple firings. Its around page 3.
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Angelus X
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.05.07 15:48:00 -
[154]
Edited by: Angelus X on 07/05/2008 15:48:15
Originally by: James 315
This post will explain what CCP is going to do. It is not a guess; it is fact.
Stopped reading at that. Players pretending they speak for CCP oh yay.
---
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Tyber Raine
Caldari
Gladiators of Rage
DeStInY.
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Posted - 2008.05.07 15:55:00 -
[155]
Originally by: Ascuris Wurm
Eve is always about Risk vs Reward. What is the Risk of fielding your Titans and wiping everyone out with DD?
Obviously it makes us think of the Death Star that had the power to destroy a planet, but was destroyed by a fighter with a couple of torpedoes thrown in the right place.
But it also made me think of an old board game called Stratego. The Field Marshall could kill any piece on the board and was the most powerful piece. To balance that, it was only able to be killed by the spy, who could only kill the Marshall and was easily killed by anyone else. To get the spy up to the Marshall without him dying involved sneakiness, strategy and timing. (If you lost your spy your only hope was that the enemy's Field Marshall would accidentally be blown up by one of your mines.)
So along that analogy, it made me think how interesting it would be if the Titan's Achille's heel was a rare and easily destroyed foe... a T2 shuttle that is built from very rare materials, that rams the titan maybe? Or something along those lines. I dunno, just trying to point us in the direction of a simple, elegant solution that is tried and true in other games/platforms/stories...
Wurm
I say make it a two meter wide thermal exhaust port that is shielded so you need torps to hit it then it will set off a chain reaction in the reactor.
It would most likely be set up in some kind of trench with large lasers protecting it.
sry... I'm not saying this is a bad idea in fact I think it is a great idea I just couldn't help but post the nod Star Wars. lol
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GateScout
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Posted - 2008.05.07 17:02:00 -
[156]
Prevent titans from cloaking.
This would ensure dropping a titan on a small fleet or gate camping with a cloaked titan (*cough* UNNAT *cough*) would have a bit more risk involved.
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Ethersong
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Posted - 2008.05.07 18:43:00 -
[157]
Edited by: Ethersong on 07/05/2008 18:43:47
I think the answer is to make a mechanic which makes titans immobile and vulnerable (since titans use such a huge amount of power to use their doomsday) due to power loss or something, vulnerable enough for a second DD to kill it. Might not mean that people stop Chain DDing, but would mean that it would cost a hell of a lot of ISK ;)
(If this has already been suggested (which IĈm sure it has)feel free to ignore it, i just couldnĈt face reading through the hundreds of pages about this)
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Saladin
Minmatar
Eternity INC.
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Posted - 2008.05.08 01:47:00 -
[158]
I am curious, and I am just thinking out loud here, what if Titans came with only 2 high slots (one for DD and one for bridge), no medium or low slots, and no drone bay? Would that balance the situation?
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Veldya
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Posted - 2008.05.08 03:19:00 -
[159]
The only change that needs to be made to Doomsday weapons is to make them not function in Cyno Jammed systems.
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El'Niaga
Minmatar
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.05.08 03:21:00 -
[160]
This was suggested when they removed the remote firing. That is that the weapon be changed to a single target massive destruction weapon. (Kinda like the keel gun from the Concordia in Wing Commander II).
It probably would be the best solution really.
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Brunswick2
coracao ardente
Cruel Intentions
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Posted - 2008.05.08 03:52:00 -
[161]
Originally by: Jalaluddin Haqqani
Originally by: Borsek's Clone
Call me an idiot, but I think a DDD should kill everything. Give it 1 billion damage for god's sake, its SUPPOSED to wipe the floor with everything!
As long as nothing but the damage was changed, I am in favor of this plan. The titan's DD hits itself. This would make the DD a final act of desperation, or a self-sacrifice for the glory of its empire.
If the titan pilot wishes to Martyr himself in the name of his cause, I see no problem with this.
This this oh god this.
Take out everything on grid (except for POSs and stuffs) but at the cost of the titan itself.
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ghost st
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Posted - 2008.05.08 04:00:00 -
[162]
Its not really titans, but capital ships altogether (with the exception of the dread) that have balance issues.
Unlike all other eve ships wich are strong against other ships of their size, capital ships are usually focused on fighting ships smaller than them. Fighters and dd are made for eating battleships. What CCP has done with caps ships is what they aimed to avoid with bs, and that is to make them extremely effective against smaller ships.
There is also a large, empty gap between bs and capital ships. The difference is so large that a comparison would be if CCP removed the cruiser class of ships from the game, and redesigned bs to fight frigates.
What CCP really needs to do is give capital ships more use than the occasional pos seiege, or to run errands And to make a destroyer-esque ship class between bs and capitals, and make capitals a logical step in escalation.
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Hunt Smacker
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.05.08 04:44:00 -
[163]
Edited by: Hunt Smacker on 08/05/2008 04:45:07
I've always wished the Titans had simply enhanced capital guns, such as huge bonuses to ROF/DPS of turrets. How much damage do battleships do to cruisers or cruiser to frigates under perfect conditions? Huge! Why have one big fancy firework when you can light the sky up with siege cannons? I'd love to see a series of siege blasters raining down on capital ships.
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J909
KIA Corp
KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.08 22:04:00 -
[164]
Only time Titans seem to be a problem is when DD's are stacked, so some kind of 1 DD per grid thing needs to be introduced and the other problem is the cyno jammer, Titans are only overpowering when the attacking force cannot get cap's onto the field. Simple fix, Allow a Titan and a Black ops to between them open a some kind of portal into a cyno jammed system, the attacker then has a force on the field, Titan are stil useful but even multiple isnt that overpowering.
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