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The Solution to the Titan Problem

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xttz GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.06 10:06:00 - [121] Admittedly I've skipped through this thread, but I'm surprised I didn't see any arguements for or against the DD being rebalanced to be a AoE e-war weapon. Personally I would like to see more flexibility in doomsday deployment making them a more tactical weapon than: 1. push butan 2. lol sub-captials can't play eve anymore I'm dreading the day that alliances can field sufficient numbers of titans to wipe out sub-capitals and fighters at their lesuire, leaving titans + dreadnaughts the only real option for fights. I think the AoE doomsday in its curent form only serves to either promote larger blobs, or make non-capital pilots stop subscribing to Eve altogether. Either result is not good for the game. My ideal doomsday would be changing it to be scriptable to one of the following modes: 1. A high-damage, focused burst on a locked target. Useful for countering capital fleets, especially remote logistics. Would be in the region of 300k to 750k racial damage. 2. A reduced damage AoE effect. This would be like the current usage, but in the region of 2k to 4k damage at 250km range. This counters traditional 'blobs' of frigates and cruisers without rendering all sub-capitals useless. It serves to protect a capital fleet from regular dictors and drones, but is no longer a threat to capital fleets by spamming titans. 3. A racial e-war effect for each titan. Again this makes the Titan a proper support weapon as I believe CCP intended them to be, rather than a force in themselves. Right now the only real difference between Titans is their damage type and gang bonus. It would be nice to see the use of each racial Titan as a slightly different role. Obvious choices for this include long range AoE effects for: Energy neutralizing (around 50% of targets base cap, amount increases based on DD skill) Warp scrambling (a 30sec infini-point scram, duration increases based on DD skill) Stasis Webification (a 30sec 75% web effect, duration increases based on DD skill) ECM (a 20sec high-strength ECM jam, duration increases based on DD skill) I'm sure many people would appreciate it if a Dev could post saying if any of the ideas mentioned here have been considered, been rejected or are being worked on.
xttz GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.06 10:08:00 - [122] Originally by: Amateratsu Correct me if im mistaken, but if you have enough Titans on grid to insta dd a capital fleet, will those dd's not also hit and damage the other titans? Or are Titans imune to dd damage from other Titans? Titans have two to three times the base HP of regular capitals, especially since they benefit heavily from Slave sets and the Erebus / Leviathan HP bonuses. A well-fit titan can have in excess of 8 million effective hitpoints, compared to 1-3 mil for regular carriers/dreads.
Alfosia Genco Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.05.06 12:55:00 - [123] Edited by: Alfosia on 06/05/2008 12:55:15 Originally by: xttz Titans have two to three times the base HP of regular capitals, especially since they benefit heavily from Slave sets and the Erebus / Leviathan HP bonuses. A well-fit titan can have in excess of 8 million effective hitpoints, compared to 1-3 mil for regular carriers/dreads. With the DDD doing what 72,000? It means nothing to a Titan, like a smartbomb to a battleship. You could effectively get 15 Titans all DDD at once and take out a fleet of Carriers... BoB are half way there.
Sergeant Spot Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.05.06 13:11:00 - [124] IF... CCP want to keep the anti-blob effect of the Titan.... But also wants to avoid the "insta kill Capital Fleets" effect of multiple Titans.... Then... Simply have a Grid wide Cooldown when ANY Doomsday weapon is fired. Maybe a few minutes. For those who just have to have "game science" explination, say that the same "sub atomic quantum suess effects" that allow the Doomsday weapon to work, are put in flux in an area where a Doomsday is used, and have to settle down before another Doomsday can function. Problem solved, rapid repeat Doomsday in a Grid becomes impossible.
ForceM Gallente POS Builder Inc. Silent Requiem	Posted - 2008.05.06 13:29:00 - [125] Originally by: Sergeant Spot IF... CCP want to keep the anti-blob effect of the Titan.... But also wants to avoid the "insta kill Capital Fleets" effect of multiple Titans.... Then... Simply have a Grid wide Cooldown when ANY Doomsday weapon is fired. Maybe a few minutes. For those who just have to have "game science" explination, say that the same "sub atomic quantum suess effects" that allow the Doomsday weapon to work, are put in flux in an area where a Doomsday is used, and have to settle down before another Doomsday can function. Problem solved, rapid repeat Doomsday in a Grid becomes impossible. As i have not been in any fleet ops .. especially with a titan im unaware about if they should be overpowered or not. Given that i actually think your idea is a really good one. One that i believe CCP could implement quite easily and within EVE storylines. Good post. -----
mama guru Corp 1 Allstars Insurgency	Posted - 2008.05.06 13:37:00 - [126] I would personally see DDD's being reconfigured to work something like Remote ECM bursts with some 200km range, 50km Blast radious and a little shorter reloading time. That way its just not a toast the entire grid in a single shot kind of weapon EVE is like the "Fisherman's Friend" of MMOs. If it's too hard, you are too weak.
Tatoed Goat	Posted - 2008.05.06 13:37:00 - [127] The perfect solution to the DD problem is for GS to leave EvE and join their thousands of SA posters and ruin someone else's game, I believe Second Life is already crawling with them. GS thank you very much for the fun but now is the time to stop whining about everything that ruins your frigate blobs. If you don't like DD's blowing your ships up go back to noob ships. Cheap, easy, goonie. It amazes me how Goons always have something to whine and cry about. Please nerf carriers, titans, dreads, battleships, battle cruisers, cruisers and everything that could possibly ruin a frigates life. And then there're frigates that are better than other frigates to they need to be nerfed too. You know what? Nerf EVERYTHING so that noob ships are the most powerful ships in the game to satisfy the Goons so everyone leaves EVE and goes off to play other games ran by companies that don't jump up and down when the biggest whiners cry and complain because their little ships can't stand up to a big weapon that costs enormous amounts of money and effort to make. Titans have already been nerfed MANY times. Obviously the Goons can't stand their 20 vs 6 Dread losses so they're taking their frustration out on Titans. I keep being told Goons are intelligent but I keep missing what they have added to the game other than whinge and whine. So dear Goons, please stop spamming the forums in desperate attempts of attention whoring just because you couldn't destroy BoB and never got the chance to dine in NOL. Titans didn't win the war, you brought it on yourselves. Go cry a few rivers, build bridges over them, preferably really high ones, then jump off them en masse and DO NOT COME BACK. This is another reason why you should not be voted for. Your simple minded attitude towards everything that can ruin your little frigates lives to lag which was caused by your huge noob ship blobs are ridiculous and pathetic. Everytime I think you guys have something credible to say you prove to me how immensely obnoxiously ignorant you are. Please leave EvE, you are not liked.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.06 13:42:00 - [128] Edited by: Goumindong on 06/05/2008 13:43:52 Originally by: Sergeant Spot IF... CCP want to keep the anti-blob effect of the Titan.... But also wants to avoid the "insta kill Capital Fleets" effect of multiple Titans.... Then... Simply have a Grid wide Cooldown when ANY Doomsday weapon is fired. Maybe a few minutes. For those who just have to have "game science" explination, say that the same "sub atomic quantum suess effects" that allow the Doomsday weapon to work, are put in flux in an area where a Doomsday is used, and have to settle down before another Doomsday can function. Problem solved, rapid repeat Doomsday in a Grid becomes impossible. There are a few good ideas floating out there. The "single target million damage blast" is one of them. The "DD is now ewar instead of Damage"(So Amarr would have a grid wide neutralizing effect, Minmatar would have a grid wide web effect, Gallente would have a grid wide damp or warp scramble effect, and Caldari would have a super-massive ECM burst(that prevented lock for a reasonable amount of time)[i would be happy to expand on any questions regarding how these might work in my thread here) But i don't think the "cooldown per grid" is a good idea. Since then you can "prep" an attack by doomsdaying yourself and once you had reached a titan critical mass you could essentially chain those DD's[say at a friendly POS] making sure an enemy couldn't ever DD your fleet. I think it would be much better to have a "big cool thing that can swing the fight in your favor" rather than "big cool thing that wins the fight" edit: Oh, and large scale AoE's are not "anti-blob" weapons. They are "anti-fight" weapons. They don't stop blobs they increase the barriers to entry and increases risk, which means fewer fights and larger fights[to offset the increased risk you've got to bring more folks] Vote Goumindong for CSM
Forluhn Amarr Sane Industries Inc. Ursa Stellar Initiative	Posted - 2008.05.06 13:42:00 - [129] Just throwing this out there (Might be a bad idea I don't know) have it so that all DDD's are actually EMPs so if the ship is running at the time of detonation all electronics fail and the ship goes boom... but what if you were able to shut down your ship so only life supports were running? That way the only way to survive a DDD would be to shutdown your ship and power off all modules? Just a thought...
mama guru Corp 1 Allstars Insurgency	Posted - 2008.05.06 13:45:00 - [130] Originally by: Lord WarATron 2 Schools of thought on this. 1. Keep DD because it obsoletes the tactic of large numbers of crapships to take one down. Titans are very vurnerable to capitals, though Downside being that eventually someone will have eleventy billion titans and instapop capital fleets, even though this has never happened. 2. Turn DD into superweapon that can 1 shot capitals or do tons of damage to capitals. This would encorage people to drop from capitals to crapfleet ships and swarm titans with numbers. Still wont solve the situation of evelentybillion titans poping capitals fleets. Seems that whatever solution you pick, supercaps > caps. Nothing wrong with that. But single target doomsdays just simply encorage capital pilots to switch to crapfleet ships. Perhaps the solution is to use small numbers of high quality ships to take on titans. How do you kill 5 titans in a cyno jammed system then? You bring more numbers. titans needs a nerf here dude, the whole concept of the DDD as some magical pipe blob dissolver is just rediculous. Remove cynojammers or rework DDD's. Its up to CCP EVE is like the "Fisherman's Friend" of MMOs. If it's too hard, you are too weak.
Ulstan	Posted - 2008.05.06 13:48:00 - [131] Quote: CCP will change the doomsday to put titans in-line with the rest of Eve's ship types. The doomsday will be changed into a supergun that does devastating damage against a large (capital) target but cannot hit anything small or fast-moving That would be awesome and would make much more sense and would finally allow us to have the death star :p
Hugh Ruka Caldari Exploratio et Industria Morispatia	Posted - 2008.05.06 13:53:00 - [132] DDD focusing script ? at least that stands out as logical consequence ... I am getting to a realisation that Titans in the current concept do not have a place in this game. A logistic ship like a carrier is quite ok, motherships as jump bridging mobile bases are ok too (I have a fancy idea for moms but it's just that ... fancy). Titans are an evolution of the Dreadnought class. Bigger with a BIG GUN. I don't think a ship of that class is needed. We have plenty of ships to kill other ships. We have dreads to kill POSes. To date there is not anti-blob weapon/measure that actualy works except planning and good FCing. Everything that kills large amounts of ships will only lead to a larger amount of ships needed to get rid of this thing.
mama guru Corp 1 Allstars Insurgency	Posted - 2008.05.06 13:53:00 - [133] You could also just turn the DDD into a siege module without the penalties. That will make the leviathan with its ****ty launchers a bad anything but cap killer however.
mishkof Caldari Dirty Denizens	Posted - 2008.05.06 14:49:00 - [134] I have no love for goons... With that said I love all these Bob fanbois bringing this subject to a political **** fest. Titans will eventually make all sub capital fights obsolete IMO, and with that goes the reason to log in on a daily basis. I understand that CCP screwed the pouch and people should not have things taken away that they worked for...Just like with T2 BPOS, there will be something that(somewhat) evens the playing field with regards to titan defense...I.E invention with T2 BPOs. CCP wont publicaly admit their mistake, but they will fix it in a half-assed way. Titans will become to game breaking to ignore after a certain point...The beauty of it is, people that build them will be the ones outlining how broken they are. For people asking for a "plan" for titans...well there isnt one from myself. Just like the T2 BPO lottery it wouldnt have been introduced in the first place.
Cptn Obvious POASTERS UNITED	Posted - 2008.05.06 15:09:00 - [135] Originally by: James 315 tl;dr who told you there was a problem?
Tyber Raine Caldari Gladiators of Rage DeStInY.	Posted - 2008.05.06 17:49:00 - [136] Just make titans into a Deathstar that can destroy a single target in one shot or something. I think titan's were originally supposed to be ships that showed off the sheer power and majesty of the alliance capable to foot the bill. I do think roving Titan's DDDing smaller fleets is quite silly. If CCP doesn't change anything who knows there is still Empire space lol =P Maybe it is just my experience with WoW but both the Alliance and Horde claim Blizzard favors the otherside so the fact that the Goonies are the ones complaining still has me jaded. It is simply an opinion based on the fact that GoonSwarm can't break through some POS b/c BoB uses multiple titans to prevent the Goonies from taking a system. I still am mostly in favor of just leaving multiple titan firings as is right now as or with a maybe 5-10 minute c/d between firing like I said, BoB built the amount of Titans they have so telling them they can't use them just b/c they use them to the maximum effectiveness is like if a rookie pilot complained that others can use Capitals. They put in the time and effort and no one forced Goonies to invade. You got yourself into this mess so you figure a way to get out. Either that or just quit EvE and go play Hello Kitty Island Adventure. I think Goonies will just simply troll and QQ on the forums about their self-pity about not being able to beat BoB due to their normal moronic zerg tactics becoming epic fails. I have yet to see a Goonie come up with an idea for a fair balancing idea. Most of it is simply mindless spam about "poor me b/c BoB has titans but you cant disagree with me b/c u dont understand QQ" I saw a BoB pilot offer a suggestion and he is on the other side of the aisle =/
Draekas Darkwater Moons of Pluto	Posted - 2008.05.07 09:48:00 - [137] Edited by: Draekas Darkwater on 07/05/2008 09:49:16 As someone who has never been in a big fleet fight, or even seen a Titan... I rather like the idea of the suicide bomber titan. =D Add a script on the DD. First one gives maybe a smartbomb AOE range increase to make it a anti-drone swarm/T1 frig killer. As well as dread like siege mode damage bonuses (not tanking bonuses though) for capital turrets, without tracking penalties and movement penalties. The second is the OMGWTFBBQPWN button. Triggering it immediatly adds HICTOR like scrambling to everything in the solar system. As I understand it, this will give everyone an aggression timer, so logging off wont save you. Then, in 5 or 10 minutes, the DD fires, killing everything in the system, including itself, with a few exceptions. All POSes in the system that were not reinforced, will become so. All POSes out of reinforced and not repped/stronted, will explode, along with any modules anchored there. All guns/modules outside of online POS shields will be incapped All station services will be incapped. Ships/items inside active POS shields will be safe as long as the tower has stront and can enter reinforced mode. Otherwise the tower and everything in its shields will pop. There, now Titans are essentially EVE's version of tactical nuclear weapons. Very expensive ones at that. Want to limit the fielding of caps and supercaps? This is one viable option. It may cost a butt-ton, however if your enemy brings out 100 caps, 20 motherships and a couple titans into one system.. well, it might be worth it. =D As titan profliferation accelerates, they will probably be used in this way more and more. Keep a few around for logistics, and use the rest as precious tac nukes that can turn a war in your favour if used at a decisive moment. Anyway, lots of really expensive stuff blowing up is good for the economy, and that makes me happy. =D
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.05.07 10:05:00 - [138] Edited by: Lord WarATron on 07/05/2008 10:09:40 Originally by: mama guru Originally by: Lord WarATron 2 Schools of thought on this. 1. Keep DD because it obsoletes the tactic of large numbers of crapships to take one down. Titans are very vurnerable to capitals, though Downside being that eventually someone will have eleventy billion titans and instapop capital fleets, even though this has never happened. 2. Turn DD into superweapon that can 1 shot capitals or do tons of damage to capitals. This would encorage people to drop from capitals to crapfleet ships and swarm titans with numbers. Still wont solve the situation of evelentybillion titans poping capitals fleets. Seems that whatever solution you pick, supercaps > caps. Nothing wrong with that. But single target doomsdays just simply encorage capital pilots to switch to crapfleet ships. Perhaps the solution is to use small numbers of high quality ships to take on titans. How do you kill 5 titans in a cyno jammed system then? You bring more numbers. titans needs a nerf here dude, the whole concept of the DDD as some magical pipe blob dissolver is just rediculous. Remove cynojammers or rework DDD's. Its up to CCP Cynojammers are pretty easy. Take 5-10 mins to down one and then once you cyno caps in, they can camp it for a couple of days while all pos's get removed. You can rub your hands with glee when the opponent logs 5 titans in to guard the jammer, since your dreads are capital killers and every dread pilot dreams of killing titans. Nobody has a problem with the initial downing of a jammer, thats easy since no alliance in history has had a 24/7, 365 camp of a jammer. However, the only people unhappy with this are people who like to do timezone wars I guess. You know, when you are asleep, they reinforce all your pos's etc, then as soon as you are ready to fight, they all cyno out. The best thing about cynojammers is that it forces people to keep capitals in system because its a dangerous seige and not a NPC mission that people can do for a bit and dock up 20 jumps away safely. As soon as you cyno out caps from a Cyno jammer system, then you are inviting 5 titan to camp a jammer. And thats the problem people have, that they want risk free capital usage. Just now, the only thing forcing people to bring high quality to a fight is titan DD, since crapfits are obsolete in capital battles, forcing people to use multiple Double/tripple DD hics and Dreads insted of t1 cruiser spam. -- Billion Isk Mission
Ahkii State War Academy	Posted - 2008.05.07 10:15:00 - [139] I submit, that the The Solution to the Titan Problem, is not..... The goon problem however is....
AppleBanana	Posted - 2008.05.07 11:13:00 - [140] They should change the DDD so it transforms the Titan into a giant robot and it can punch and kick and destroy capitals in one hit. And it also should have huge bags under its eyes that shoot huge laser beamz just like Hillary Clinton.
Ben Derindar Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.05.07 11:17:00 - [141] The day the DD is nerfed is the day that numbers become the final answer in any battle situation. Considering how much of an issue lag is already, that doesn't sound like a especially pleasant scenario to me. /Ben Ben Derindar: Eve CSM candidate
Misanth The Graduates Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.05.07 11:31:00 - [142] My main concern is not titans, it's Dreadnoughts. Awsome ships at what they do, but incredibly expensive considering the limited use. You get two decent fitted carriers for one dread. The dread is only useful when being locked up in siege. And with the theorycrafting of stacking a big amount of titans, the dread will succumb to multiple DD's. I vote "no" to nerf titans, but I vote "yes" to buff Dreadnoughts' (their survivability).
Darineah Charach Minmatar Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.07 11:36:00 - [143] Personally (and i'll be honest, i couldn't be assed reading the whole thread so don't know if this has been suggested yet or not) i think DDD should act like a siege mod, sort of. Put an activation delay of 30 seconds on it, so it doesn't go off until 30 seconds after you click it. IMO this increases the teamwork aspect as to take out an enemy fleet they'd need to be at least bubbled. Fast interceptors could work here too, just keeping stuff tackled until titan pilot yells over TS '5 seconds, get the hell out!' As for the siege mod bit, can't warp or jump out for 10 minutes after deploying DDD due to the enormous energy expended and the need to recalibrate all the systems blah blah blah (add whatever RP reason you're happy with). This way a support fleet for the titan is absolutely vital. Naturally, said support fleet wouldn't actually warp in th defend the titan until after the DDD has been used. ------- Boxing Kangaroo
fuze InfoMorph Services Ltd	Posted - 2008.05.07 12:54:00 - [144] Edited by: fuze on 07/05/2008 12:55:36 Originally by: Ben Derindar The day the DD is nerfed is the day that numbers become the final answer in any battle situation. It's actually numbers of Titans now. Anyone who can field the most Titans now can sweep the field. They were nerfed because DDD was too powerfull. Now you stack DDD's and you're back to square 1. There should be a way to counter this because the nerf doesn't help. Current suggestions: grid cooldown (my fav atm) T2 ship with DDD shield DDD scripts replace DDD with deathray increase DDD fuel cost DDD causing damage to all *Titan siege mode And I like a lot of these ideas. Especially if you implement more of these. The T2 ship seems to be nice but it shouldn't shield ships for 100% but 50% tops. But one will pity the fool that will fly this ship because its going to be called first all the time. DDD scripting can be nice to single shot this T2 ship. Or denting carriers/dreads. But this script shouldn't have a cool down period. Just the costs of fuel. The old skool DDD should still have a cooldown. Titans could get a DDD bay to store their fuel in for DDD. The amount of fuel will determine the damage it causes. And GM also can tweak the amount of fuel it takes to fire a DDD. Meaning that if you want to fend off people with multiple DDD its going to cost. And you will have to organize your logistics of refueling the titans. Pherhaps when the Titan pilot can adjust the AOE related to the amount of damage would be a nice option as well.
xttz GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.07 13:00:00 - [145] Originally by: Tyber Raine Just make titans into a Deathstar that can destroy a single target in one shot or something. Originally by: Tyber Raine I have yet to see a Goonie come up with an idea for a fair balancing plan. Most of it is simply mindless spam I posted the same suggestion as you at the top of the same page. Are you saying that you intentionally came up with an unfair balancing plan yourself, or that you're intentionally not reading 'Goonie' posts in order to claim we post no such plans? Originally by: Tyber Raine I do think roving Titan's DDDing smaller fleets is quite silly. If CCP doesn't change anything who knows there is still Empire space lol =P Originally by: Tyber Raine It is simply an opinion based on the fact that GoonSwarm can't break through some POS b/c BoB uses multiple titans to prevent the Goonies from taking a system. Are you intentionally contradicting yourself again just to troll people, or do you have short term memory issues causing you to forget what you wrote 5 lines previously? How can you seriously claim that titans in their current form are 'silly' then proceed to say that all arguements against them are politically motivated trash? Originally by: Tyber Raine like if a rookie pilot complained that others can use Capitals Capitals don't kill every rookie ship on grid in 10 seconds without locking them. In fact, capitals are specifically designed to be weaker against the ships that can tackle them via low scan resolution and bad turret tracking speeds. Writing valid analogies would really help your arguement. Originally by: Tyber Raine just quit EvE and go play Hello Kitty Island Adventure This isn't CAOD. This is a thread about titan balance. If you have some fantastic other MMPORGs you'd like us to play with you, try suggesting them in a new CAOD thread without derailing this one. Titans (specifically large groups of Titans, which is the crux of this thread) directly counter the only ships that tackle them, and have real potential to also kill entire capital fleets with a critcal mass. We will see this point before this year is over. It has been detailed in several ways how this imbalance is available to any alliance, not just BoB. And while BoB are currently leading the race in titans deployed, several other alliances are close to their numbers. Plenty of people outside of Goonswarm have stated what will happen to Eve if this issue is not addressed. Titan balance is an issue raised by specific alliance conflicts, not one debated solely in order to win them. Please stop claiming the debate is entirely politically motivated when several valid points have been raised by people with no interest in the BOB/GS war.
Ooyama Caldari Rastana CMP	Posted - 2008.05.07 13:01:00 - [146] Though far off a titan myself, i do like the "focused beam"-DD idea. Imo it whould be quite inline with the bg-story aswell (any of you that have read Theodicy, will remember the gargantuan beam coming from the Jove MS that instapopped the amarr ships) and could easily be entered as a part of (i.e.) Empyrean age (there's been mention of new systems, maybe for borderlines,,, who know's if "suddenly" someone runs across an old jove outpost where they forgot a such module though naturally in damaged state). There whould naturally have to be limitations on fitting and such (as stated by several before me), in order to balance it, but it whould (imho) be a superb idea to work on,,
Saladin Minmatar Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2008.05.07 13:08:00 - [147] Edited by: Saladin on 07/05/2008 13:09:29 The sore point of the titan really comes into play with cyno jammers. These structures have to be taken down with sub-caps, making it an extremely difficult task against any opponent using a titan. CCP also saw it fit to make sure the cyno jammers do not consume any CPU. Thus, when the tower supporting it is knocked into reinforced, it can still be repaired and onlined. My suggestions for the titan may go against the grain, but here is what I would like to see: 1. DD does more damage - A hictor should not be able to tank one easily without some trade off to his setup 2. Titans not allowed to use Jump Bridges: If someone wants to bring a titan into a Cyno Jammed system, they need to turn off the cyno jammer instead of just bridging in. 3. Allow gang bonuses from Titans to be applied within the constellation, not just the system.
Schani Kratnorr x13	Posted - 2008.05.07 13:32:00 - [148] Originally by: James 315 ...snip... The doomsday was designed long before CCP thought a titan would be created. They thought that maybe there would be built one or perhaps two titans. They gave it little thought, and considered it an "endgame" goal. That's a mighty big asumption to make, and if you build the rest of your argument on top of that, it will fall. Fact is. Everything you need to build titans is available off the market. Blueprints, Pos-modules and minerals. Despite the huge effort required, it is only a matter of time before most "major" alliances have multiple. The doomsday is in no way unbalanced or unfair. The fact that the same people keep bringing it up, does not make it so. Goonswarm in particular have made fools of themselves trying to draw attention away from their shoddy tactics. Example: I had the great pleasure of a front row seat on one occation. It might be a while ago, but it encapsulates everything that you should not do when facing titans. We (GBC) have been logging in all afternoon. Our objective is clear and the briefing was... brief: "QY6 system, cover gates, station, posses, nothing lives!" Later that evening, we get some info on teamspeak about a large'ish GS fleet headed our way. I look at local, which by this time is around 600 or more, with the vast majority in favor of BoB and Allies. I think to myself, "no they would not be that stupid would they?" Anyway, long story short. Goons warp to QY6-gate in J-L. They engage our light and medium support on the QY6-side. Our FC orders all support off the gate... Our battleships are already in warp as Shrike uncloaks and fires his doomsday-device. It was 18 minutes before I loaded the grid... Now the real problem here was something other than the titan and its superweapon. First off, who the hell jumps into a system with a number of hostile titans in it? Then I thought, "those guys didn't even load the grid..." While I waited for the grid to load, I was able to listen to the recording of the goons in action. I know it presents an incomplete picture, but it does not sound like they have any other plan than "jump 'n shoot". No second wave, no cynos to bring in more ships by portal, no backup plan, just "jump and die goons". The problem it seems, it not the doomsday device. The problem is that some alliances have them, and some dont. Some have obscene numbers of titans, others have just one or two. The faster everyone realizes that they need multiples of these beasts, the faster we can get over the complaints. One of my friends remarked: "how many times do you think the average goon has to experience a doomsday device before he simply stops listening to his leaders and go home?" Doomsdays are hillariously funny, but not if you're the one being blasted. By the way James 315, your post is on no way unique. I recall numerous posts calling for battleships to be nerfed because they (in relative terms) broke the game equally well. Thing is James, you're a bit of a clueless newbie. You fail to realize that EVE is a game best played in large strides. You scurry around the floor like little insects. Ofcourse doomsdays are unfair, but only to those who are about to be blown up, to the rest of us, they are an almost endless supply of fun 'n games. I dont have one myself, but I know a few who have (not personally though, as Titan pilots tend to get wierd over time ) I heard (unconfirmed though) that the GS fleet that jumped into QY6 had "four or five" people with overviews set up to see titans, and keep an eye out for the tell-tale signs of a doomsday. The idea is goon enough, but with 600 in local, and a grid that takes 10+ minutes to load, what are the odds that just one of the four spots the titans in time? Fact is. Titans are powerful. They are a problem yes, but only to those hell bent on charging headlong into a system that has "Trap in here!" signs on all the gates...
Ghaelsto Kakram Mindgamers	Posted - 2008.05.07 14:01:00 - [149] Originally by: Schani Kratnorr Clueless post from a clueless wannabe Anyone who can field enough Titans to guard a jammer can lock down a system. Its just a matter of time when amount of Titans reach 50 or even 100. Think about it.
Haakon Jarl Caldari direkte	Posted - 2008.05.07 14:04:00 - [150] Remove damage from the dd. Alter it so dd only suck your cap dry or something. In it for the state

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