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Natsuki
Caldari Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.05.10 00:33:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Danton Marcellus I don't see why tech III would have to have a very novel approach in any way, that being said I do think the whole research process could be made a lot more interesting, with minigames. Dare I say even Ambulation minigames...
one thing we might agree on! the entire research/manufacture/invention process in eve really is no different from other fantasy MMOs, gather X items and you're done. I think it's really an insult to how complex the rest of eve is.
it should be completely overhauled. -----------------------------------
btw, threatening to close 1 account really hurt my eyes. - xaioguai |
The Socialworker
Minmatar Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2008.05.10 01:03:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Natsuki
Everyone that has a t2 bpo or conglomerates that have many have made back their investments hundreds of times over by now. there is no reason anyone should have that kind of easy money.
quote]
This isn't something I know much about, but arn't there lots of younger players who have recentley forked out many many billions of hard earned for their BP's, rather than getting them by one lucky click years ago?
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Gamer4liff
Caldari Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY
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Posted - 2008.05.10 01:34:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Gamer4liff on 10/05/2008 01:40:59 For christsake not this garbage again, don't you people ever give up?
BPOs are fine as is, though some way does need to be created to make more.
Take what you can get inventors, your career path was never designed for your profit, it was designed to keep prices lower.
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Price Watcher
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Posted - 2008.05.10 01:39:00 -
[34]
It's not a big problem that some folks have a few T2 BPOs.
Invention has brought the price of T2 items down to a realistic level.
Hulks used to be 500 mil, now a little over 100 mil.
Let the T2 BPOs stay, but don't replace any that are destroyed or belong to canceled/banned accounts.
POST WITH YOUR ALT!
Fix Suicide Ganking |
Soulita
Gallente Inner Core
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Posted - 2008.05.10 01:50:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Natsuki ...first: this 2nd: I said ccp SHOULD HAVE never out t2 bpos in the first place. now that they are here, everything as far as invention is screwed up, and I don't see a good or logical way to fix things except for turning all t2 bpos to bcps. Everyone that has a t2 bpo or conglomerates that have many have made back their investments hundreds of times over by now. there is no reason anyone should have that kind of easy money.
Making all T2 and higher construction REQUIRE invention would have little effect on the t2 conglomerates, they would simply do more invention. in fact it would probably help out a lot of people in the entire economy. I think t2 invention should require more items (all at a lower cost), which come from many areas and jobs in eve so that it reaches every part of the economy, from noobs, to explorers in 0.0.
This.
Very well said, and I am glad this comes from a T2 BPO owner.
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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente The Aduro Protocol
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Posted - 2008.05.10 02:20:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Jimmy Cliff Edited by: Jimmy Cliff on 09/05/2008 22:40:40 I don't want the bpo's... I can manage inventing stuff... [t2 bpos give an] unfair advantage on those that actually work hard in-game.
Your post makes no sense.
Believe it or not, people that wanted tech 2 bpos had DOZENS of accounts sometimes all doing research to attempt to get a tech 2 bpo.
Quite literally, these people worked their asses of to get a tech 2 bpo. And a lot of people didn't. The BPOs that are available now are up for grabs, as they always have been. So by your statement that "You can manage inventing stuff" you need to let it go because you are making an active choice NOT to purchase something that you could have to make your life "easier."
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Veldya
Caldari Shadow Industries Corpororation Limited
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Posted - 2008.05.10 03:35:00 -
[37]
I must admit I don't like the current T2/invention system, it is very much hit or miss and the failure rate on invention seems absurdly high and the cost to invent decent BPCs is very high.
I think most inventors are sticking to the module/rig market where cost is fairly low and ME is not as significant as it is for things like ships. I just can't imagine someone remotely competing against a ship BPO owner. Your only hope is that demand is so high that all the BPO based stock sells out first and yours can get a look in before the BPO manufacturer can replace the stock.
As it is, it is not an ideal scenario. As to being fair, it is part of business. If you are going to invest billions into something you have to think about the risk of likely change. Business graveyards are littered with people who were just unlucky enough to invest in businesses at the time of change, I am sure someone who invested in Zeplins prior to the boom in the aircraft area would have also felt cheated.
Change happens, if you bought a T2 BPO for profit then make the most out of it because the system is very flawed atm and it is likely to change. Profit on it while you can.
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Narffy
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.05.10 04:43:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
Originally by: Jimmy Cliff Edited by: Jimmy Cliff on 09/05/2008 22:40:40 I don't want the bpo's... I can manage inventing stuff... [t2 bpos give an] unfair advantage on those that actually work hard in-game.
Your post makes no sense.
Believe it or not, people that wanted tech 2 bpos had DOZENS of accounts sometimes all doing research to attempt to get a tech 2 bpo.
Quite literally, these people worked their asses of to get a tech 2 bpo. And a lot of people didn't. The BPOs that are available now are up for grabs, as they always have been. So by your statement that "You can manage inventing stuff" you need to let it go because you are making an active choice NOT to purchase something that you could have to make your life "easier."
Believe it or not, there's thousands of other people who also had Dozens of accounts all doing research and didn't get a bpo. Getting a permanent advantage like this over everyone else based on a single use of a random number generator is lame.
CCP could use market logs to approximate when the bpo owners who bought T2 bpo's make a profit off them and then turn them into bpc's at that point.
Of course CCP doesn't nerf expensive *cough* Titans *cough* Moms *cough* carriers *cough* stuff to correct mistakes, so I guess they won't fix this mistake.
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Darkreaper Elizabeth
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Posted - 2008.05.10 04:55:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Narffy Believe it or not, there's thousands of other people who also had Dozens of accounts all doing research and didn't get a bpo. Getting a permanent advantage like this over everyone else based on a single use of a random number generator is lame.
Every game embraces it's RNG. Don't you? :)
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.05.10 05:40:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Natsuki tbh tho, I don't think even invention was done right, as it has no logical way of proceeding to Tech 3. You can only invent t2 bpcs from T1 bpos, thus you would need a t2 bpo to invent a t3 bpc. what about t4?
God so much in this game is done completely wrong and makes no sense.
But you at least know what you are speaking about?
You start with a T1 BPC to invent a T2 BPC. Until you copy a T1 BPO you can do nothing in invention with it. As ME/PE stats on the BPC have 0 impact on the final BPC inventor and T2 BPO owner will be exactly in the same condition when the time to invent T3 BPC will come (if it will require T2 BPC).
While a BPO owner would be capable of getting a copy with more run, the time needed to copy a T2 BPO is so high that he will get more BPC doing the invention from T1 BPC that coping the T2 BPO.
About the OP: Why you haven't resurrected one of the other threads, all was said before a lot of times. You would have avoided a lot of new posts with 0 new content.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.05.10 05:59:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Veldya I must admit I don't like the current T2/invention system, it is very much hit or miss and the failure rate on invention seems absurdly high and the cost to invent decent BPCs is very high.
I think most inventors are sticking to the module/rig market where cost is fairly low and ME is not as significant as it is for things like ships. I just can't imagine someone remotely competing against a ship BPO owner. Your only hope is that demand is so high that all the BPO based stock sells out first and yours can get a look in before the BPO manufacturer can replace the stock.
As it is, it is not an ideal scenario. As to being fair, it is part of business. If you are going to invest billions into something you have to think about the risk of likely change. Business graveyards are littered with people who were just unlucky enough to invest in businesses at the time of change, I am sure someone who invested in Zeplins prior to the boom in the aircraft area would have also felt cheated.
Change happens, if you bought a T2 BPO for profit then make the most out of it because the system is very flawed atm and it is likely to change. Profit on it while you can.
But you guys ever look the time needed to build from a BPO before speaking? With (probably, as the real number was never disclosed) 8 hulk BPO in all the game and a build time of more than 1 day, you are really convinced that the 8 hulks build every day by BPO owners are covering all the request in all of EVE? or even credibly putting a dent in it?
In the same timeframe where a BPO owner will build 2 hulks, a inventor will build 10 (including a very rough account of the PE malus), probably even more. The BPO owner will gain more form the single ship but he is not changing the sell price with his pitiful production.
You want to be wall mark, selling thousand of items, but with the single item return of a first class boutique. You can't have both.
If you sell thousand of items your margin on the single item is small, what count is the quantity you sell. On the other hand the BPO owner have the return of quality store but a low number of sales.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.05.10 06:00:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Narffy
CCP could use market logs to approximate when the bpo owners who bought T2 bpo's make a profit off them and then turn them into bpc's at that point.
Last sales (even supposing that the price don't drop more) is about 4 years constant production (look the sell forum and you will see the sales).
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MEBHansen
Darwin With Attitude oooh Shiny
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Posted - 2008.05.10 06:07:00 -
[43]
Bring back that bright star in the sky, and have it explode in a EM-kinda supernova, and say, that the blast deleted all BPO's.
There.. problem solved.
Start whining.
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El'Niaga
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.05.10 06:27:00 -
[44]
They should have been removed long ago.
So long as they exist they will continue to make invention unprofitable. They should have been removed when invention came out, they've been allowed another free year, and its time to end it.
Will it mean prices will rise, yes. But at current prices you can't invent and sell between 80-90% of T2 items for a profit. It would allow those that invest heavily in invention to actually be able to do so profitably and dedicate themselves wholly to the endeavor instead of dabbling in it.
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Joe
Umbra Legion
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Posted - 2008.05.10 07:16:00 -
[45]
At last years fanfest Devs at the Q&A clearly stated they have no plans to remove or modify tech II bpo in game.
Since the Fanfest response over a Trillion isk in BPos have been traded through the Sales forums (1000 Billion), unknown amounts of bpos continued to sell Via Trade Channels and Contracts.
I don't beleive people would have set goals and purchased T2 bpos if the Dev response at the fanfest was different.
Nothing the devs can do to remove the bpos from the game would seem 'fair' to players who have invested 10, 50 or 100 bil on a bpo since then, so if changes come i expect them to have no warning, and without consideration to these players.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.05.10 07:21:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Venkul Mul on 10/05/2008 07:23:26
Originally by: El'Niaga They should have been removed long ago.
So long as they exist they will continue to make invention unprofitable. They should have been removed when invention came out, they've been allowed another free year, and its time to end it.
Will it mean prices will rise, yes. But at current prices you can't invent and sell between 80-90% of T2 items for a profit. It would allow those that invest heavily in invention to actually be able to do so profitably and dedicate themselves wholly to the endeavor instead of dabbling in it.
It ism soo evident: Marauder and Black Ops invention is unprofitable because of the BPO.
(For the unenlighted: there are not Marauder and Black Ops BPO, but inventing and producing them is still unprofitable. Too much people that sell thinking that what they produce by themselves is free. The same happens for a lot of other T2 items, people think that self produced datacores, minerals and T2 materials have 0 cost so they sell at less than what they could get selling the components and that cut profit for the other inventers way more than the small number of module/ships produced by BPO owners.) |
El'Niaga
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.05.10 07:24:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Originally by: El'Niaga They should have been removed long ago.
So long as they exist they will continue to make invention unprofitable. They should have been removed when invention came out, they've been allowed another free year, and its time to end it.
Will it mean prices will rise, yes. But at current prices you can't invent and sell between 80-90% of T2 items for a profit. It would allow those that invest heavily in invention to actually be able to do so profitably and dedicate themselves wholly to the endeavor instead of dabbling in it.
It ism soo evident: Marauder and Black Ops invention is unprofitable because of the BPO.
(For the unenlighted: there are not Marauder and Black Ops BPO, but inventing and producing them is still unprofitable. Too much people that sell thinking that what they produce by themselves is free.)
I wasn't talking about Marauder and Black Ops....
Yes there are those that consider their time worthless, and you'll never change those. At the same time the t2 BPOs are nothing more than shuttles in the pricing scheme of things. They removed NPC shuttle sales because they were holding down the price of tritanium. They should eliminate the t2 BPOs for the same reason. |
Dianeces
Minmatar The Illuminati.
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Posted - 2008.05.10 07:25:00 -
[48]
Originally by: El'Niaga
I wasn't talking about Marauder and Black Ops....
Yes there are those that consider their time worthless, and you'll never change those. At the same time the t2 BPOs are nothing more than shuttles in the pricing scheme of things. They removed NPC shuttle sales because they were holding down the price of tritanium. They should eliminate the t2 BPOs for the same reason.
T2 BPOs are holding down the price of trit? |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.05.10 07:31:00 -
[49]
Originally by: El'Niaga
I wasn't talking about Marauder and Black Ops....
Yes there are those that consider their time worthless, and you'll never change those. At the same time the t2 BPOs are nothing more than shuttles in the pricing scheme of things. They removed NPC shuttle sales because they were holding down the price of tritanium. They should eliminate the t2 BPOs for the same reason.
Look again the prices of the module/ships without a T2 BPo, they have a margin as low as all the other T2 items (in some example even lower).
So removing the T2 BPO will change nothing beside removing from the game some module where the T2 version is so similar to the best named ha inventing it is not worthwile and making happy some people whose only motivations are envy and ignorance.
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Shakuul
Caldari Extreme Addiction Atrum Tempestas Foedus
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Posted - 2008.05.10 08:08:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Dianeces
Originally by: El'Niaga
I wasn't talking about Marauder and Black Ops....
Yes there are those that consider their time worthless, and you'll never change those. At the same time the t2 BPOs are nothing more than shuttles in the pricing scheme of things. They removed NPC shuttle sales because they were holding down the price of tritanium. They should eliminate the t2 BPOs for the same reason.
T2 BPOs are holding down the price of trit?
Yeah you can actually reprocess them for 1,000,000,000,000 trit .
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Veldya
Caldari Shadow Industries Corpororation Limited
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Posted - 2008.05.10 08:29:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Originally by: Veldya I must admit I don't like the current T2/invention system, it is very much hit or miss and the failure rate on invention seems absurdly high and the cost to invent decent BPCs is very high.
I think most inventors are sticking to the module/rig market where cost is fairly low and ME is not as significant as it is for things like ships. I just can't imagine someone remotely competing against a ship BPO owner. Your only hope is that demand is so high that all the BPO based stock sells out first and yours can get a look in before the BPO manufacturer can replace the stock.
As it is, it is not an ideal scenario. As to being fair, it is part of business. If you are going to invest billions into something you have to think about the risk of likely change. Business graveyards are littered with people who were just unlucky enough to invest in businesses at the time of change, I am sure someone who invested in Zeplins prior to the boom in the aircraft area would have also felt cheated.
Change happens, if you bought a T2 BPO for profit then make the most out of it because the system is very flawed atm and it is likely to change. Profit on it while you can.
But you guys ever look the time needed to build from a BPO before speaking? With (probably, as the real number was never disclosed) 8 hulk BPO in all the game and a build time of more than 1 day, you are really convinced that the 8 hulks build every day by BPO owners are covering all the request in all of EVE? or even credibly putting a dent in it?
In the same timeframe where a BPO owner will build 2 hulks, a inventor will build 10 (including a very rough account of the PE malus), probably even more. The BPO owner will gain more form the single ship but he is not changing the sell price with his pitiful production.
You want to be wall mark, selling thousand of items, but with the single item return of a first class boutique. You can't have both.
If you sell thousand of items your margin on the single item is small, what count is the quantity you sell. On the other hand the BPO owner have the return of quality store but a low number of sales.
As I said, it is about the supply and demand, how many hulks get purchased a week vs how many BPO hulks are created vs how many BPC hulks are created. A BPO manufacturer would be able to undercut a BPC manufacturer and you will have a lot of BPC manufacturers taking significantly longer to move stock with significantly lower profit margins per sale.
There is absolutely nothing that the new or unlucky manufacturer can do to compete and I don't know how many of what types of BPOs are out there and in use, if it is enough to cause you to hold onto stock for a long time then it would not be remotely viable to compete.
My beef is not so much with the BPOs but with the invention system, if it wasn't so hit or miss AND expensive then you could at least invest enough in the invention process to get a good quality BPC that would compete with BPOs, when you factor in invention failures to your overhead cost it is just not remotely viable.
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.05.10 08:41:00 -
[52]
Originally by: El'Niaga
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Originally by: El'Niaga They should have been removed long ago.
So long as they exist they will continue to make invention unprofitable. They should have been removed when invention came out, they've been allowed another free year, and its time to end it.
Will it mean prices will rise, yes. But at current prices you can't invent and sell between 80-90% of T2 items for a profit. It would allow those that invest heavily in invention to actually be able to do so profitably and dedicate themselves wholly to the endeavor instead of dabbling in it.
It ism soo evident: Marauder and Black Ops invention is unprofitable because of the BPO.
(For the unenlighted: there are not Marauder and Black Ops BPO, but inventing and producing them is still unprofitable. Too much people that sell thinking that what they produce by themselves is free.)
I wasn't talking about Marauder and Black Ops....
Yes there are those that consider their time worthless, and you'll never change those. At the same time the t2 BPOs are nothing more than shuttles in the pricing scheme of things. They removed NPC shuttle sales because they were holding down the price of tritanium. They should eliminate the t2 BPOs for the same reason.
So invent things for which there are no BPOs and make HUGE profit, amirite?
EAS and HICs spring to mind here. There are no BPOs for those, so a quick investigation of the market for those will show you what kind of profits you could expect in a BPO free game.
The old T2 BPO situation was obviously unsatisfactory. The current situation may also be somewhat unfair but as previously commented, the volume of the market makes it irrelevant. Prices on T2 items aren't low because of BPOs; prices are low because invention is accessible to anyone. The level of the market is set by the best-skilled inventors, and it is they whom the noob T2 producer is really competing with.
tl;dr: Get all your relevant skills to 5 and see how much profit you make then.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Shadowsword
COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2008.05.10 09:15:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Jimmy Cliff Edited by: Jimmy Cliff on 09/05/2008 22:40:40 I don't want the bpo's... I can manage inventing stuff... but on your point, those lucky enough to win in the T2-lottery have an unfair advantage on those that actually work hard in-game.
Besides, I think it's an honest question asked... hear-say has had rumors running for a long while now, so I suppose it's only fair to get those rumors on the table.
Here's a few facts:
- Most actual T2 bpos owners have bought the bpos from other people.
- In most cases, winning the bpo in the lottery required lots of efforts. You known, doing R&D missions every day, the months of skill training time required, that 40M skill book, and the grinding of standing,s which for two corps required more than a month of hard work. I know about 15 players, me included, who ever got something from the lottery. Only 2 of them didn't put a signifiant effort into it. And a lot more who put efforts into it got nothing.
- The reason invention isn't much profitable for a lot of things right now is because there's too many inventors, and supply exceed demand. Removing the bpos won't change a thing about it. ------------------------------------------
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El'Niaga
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.05.10 10:09:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Dianeces
Originally by: El'Niaga
I wasn't talking about Marauder and Black Ops....
Yes there are those that consider their time worthless, and you'll never change those. At the same time the t2 BPOs are nothing more than shuttles in the pricing scheme of things. They removed NPC shuttle sales because they were holding down the price of tritanium. They should eliminate the t2 BPOs for the same reason.
T2 BPOs are holding down the price of trit?
No but they are artificially holding down t2 prices. It is an advantage no one else has and no one can obtain. When first announced about invention Oveur said that the t2 BPOs would be removed and it's about time it happened.
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El'Niaga
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.05.10 10:10:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: El'Niaga
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Originally by: El'Niaga They should have been removed long ago.
So long as they exist they will continue to make invention unprofitable. They should have been removed when invention came out, they've been allowed another free year, and its time to end it.
Will it mean prices will rise, yes. But at current prices you can't invent and sell between 80-90% of T2 items for a profit. It would allow those that invest heavily in invention to actually be able to do so profitably and dedicate themselves wholly to the endeavor instead of dabbling in it.
It ism soo evident: Marauder and Black Ops invention is unprofitable because of the BPO.
(For the unenlighted: there are not Marauder and Black Ops BPO, but inventing and producing them is still unprofitable. Too much people that sell thinking that what they produce by themselves is free.)
I wasn't talking about Marauder and Black Ops....
Yes there are those that consider their time worthless, and you'll never change those. At the same time the t2 BPOs are nothing more than shuttles in the pricing scheme of things. They removed NPC shuttle sales because they were holding down the price of tritanium. They should eliminate the t2 BPOs for the same reason.
So invent things for which there are no BPOs and make HUGE profit, amirite?
EAS and HICs spring to mind here. There are no BPOs for those, so a quick investigation of the market for those will show you what kind of profits you could expect in a BPO free game.
The old T2 BPO situation was obviously unsatisfactory. The current situation may also be somewhat unfair but as previously commented, the volume of the market makes it irrelevant. Prices on T2 items aren't low because of BPOs; prices are low because invention is accessible to anyone. The level of the market is set by the best-skilled inventors, and it is they whom the noob T2 producer is really competing with.
tl;dr: Get all your relevant skills to 5 and see how much profit you make then.
Not enough demand for those two ship types to cover the long term expenses of invention. You need to make it viable to invent anything, which sadly right now it isn't. In fact using invention its almost impossible to make a profit unless you just assume your time is worthless and mine most of it yourself (including the moon stuff).
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Joe
Umbra Legion
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Posted - 2008.05.10 10:12:00 -
[56]
Originally by: El'Niaga
Originally by: Dianeces
Originally by: El'Niaga
I wasn't talking about Marauder and Black Ops....
Yes there are those that consider their time worthless, and you'll never change those. At the same time the t2 BPOs are nothing more than shuttles in the pricing scheme of things. They removed NPC shuttle sales because they were holding down the price of tritanium. They should eliminate the t2 BPOs for the same reason.
really, directly contradicting the devs at fanfest?
The reason the devs and gms dont respond in these types of threads is becuase arguements that are valid (eg mine) are ignored, and idiots like you continue to make up whatever whining excuse you need to keep the thread rolling untill you 'win'
T2 BPOs are holding down the price of trit?
No but they are artificially holding down t2 prices. It is an advantage no one else has and no one can obtain. When first announced about invention Oveur said that the t2 BPOs would be removed and it's about time it happened.
Pe0w |
000Hunter000
Gallente Missiles 'R' Us
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Posted - 2008.05.10 10:20:00 -
[57]
How much would say.. a bloodclaw fury bpo go for these days? Researched as well??? _______________________________________________________ CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!!
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Joe
Umbra Legion
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Posted - 2008.05.10 10:22:00 -
[58]
Originally by: El'Niaga they are artificially holding down t2 prices. It is an advantage no one else has and no one can obtain. When first announced about invention Oveur said that the t2 BPOs would be removed and it's about time it happened.
Your Whines are painfull to read.
Quote: No but they are artificially holding down t2 prices
The only thing that dictates tech II price is demand.
Quote: It is an advantage no one else has and no one can obtain
there are 20-40 of each type of t2 bpo in the game, they regually sell on forums, contracts and ingame in the trade channels.
Quote: When first announced about invention Oveur said that the t2 BPOs would be removed and it's about time it happened.
Please produce the linkie from oveur that directly contradicts all the devs comments at fanfest Q&A, that there is no plans to change ingame t2 bps.
Pe0w |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.05.10 10:25:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Veldya
As I said, it is about the supply and demand, how many hulks get purchased a week vs how many BPO hulks are created vs how many BPC hulks are created. A BPO manufacturer would be able to undercut a BPC manufacturer and you will have a lot of BPC manufacturers taking significantly longer to move stock with significantly lower profit margins per sale.
There is absolutely nothing that the new or unlucky manufacturer can do to compete and I don't know how many of what types of BPOs are out there and in use, if it is enough to cause you to hold onto stock for a long time then it would not be remotely viable to compete.
My beef is not so much with the BPOs but with the invention system, if it wasn't so hit or miss AND expensive then you could at least invest enough in the invention process to get a good quality BPC that would compete with BPOs, when you factor in invention failures to your overhead cost it is just not remotely viable.
You are competing against other inventor, not agaist BPO owners. The high prices of the past were there because BPO production could not keep up with demand, mow the high number of BPC produced by inventors has lowered the price to the point where invention has a profit margin paragonable to T1 production.
To get a good return you must research your product and maximize your chance of succes. I am still making good isk inventing and you can do the same if you know what you are doing.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.05.10 10:29:00 -
[60]
Originally by: El'Niaga
Originally by: Dianeces
Originally by: El'Niaga
I wasn't talking about Marauder and Black Ops....
Yes there are those that consider their time worthless, and you'll never change those. At the same time the t2 BPOs are nothing more than shuttles in the pricing scheme of things. They removed NPC shuttle sales because they were holding down the price of tritanium. They should eliminate the t2 BPOs for the same reason.
T2 BPOs are holding down the price of trit?
No but they are artificially holding down t2 prices. It is an advantage no one else has and no one can obtain. When first announced about invention Oveur said that the t2 BPOs would be removed and it's about time it happened.
Don't say falsehood. I have read practically anything that was written by Devs about invention and it was never stated that the T2 BPo would be removed.
So post a link if you aren't inventing if from nothing.
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