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Sweet Pea
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Posted - 2008.05.10 19:33:00 -
[31]
The ship isn't overpowered. You need to fit rails to shoot anything larger then a small POS, unless you drop right on top of your target for blaster work. He's also station camping, letting him run that no tank setup safely. A 15 man carrier gank squad will waste him in less then 60 seconds since he has no tank. Bump him off station and a Blasterthron will own him. The drone bonus is from the day this ship was able to field 35 heavy drones (before the drone lag reduction). DPS wise this ship is very simalar to other dreads, and it fits with the gallente warfare theory (blasters and drones). You nerf the drones you just killed the ship for what its design purpose is.
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Commoner
Caldari
Emergent Chaos
Bedlam Consortium
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Posted - 2008.05.10 19:36:00 -
[32]
 Originally by: Sweet Pea
The ship isn't overpowered. You need to fit rails to shoot anything larger then a small POS, unless you drop right on top of your target for blaster work. He's also station camping, letting him run that no tank setup safely. A 15 man carrier gank squad will waste him in less then 60 seconds since he has no tank. Bump him off station and a Blasterthron will own him. The drone bonus is from the day this ship was able to field 35 heavy drones (before the drone lag reduction). DPS wise this ship is very simalar to other dreads, and it fits with the gallente warfare theory (blasters and drones). You nerf the drones you just killed the ship for what its design purpose is.
Alindyar actually adressed the bumping, this Amarr station have a huge docking range, so the bumping thing won't work in this particular situation. (I've seen him being bumped when him and another carrier undocked at the same time, he managed to redock even though his dread was flying as fast as a MWDing frigate)
The worst pvp'er in EVE :
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Sweet Pea
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Posted - 2008.05.10 19:52:00 -
[33]
Then the problem isn't the ship, its the docking/aggro mechanics. For if his ship were unable to redock he would be toast. Nerfing the ship due to a pilots ability to exploit the docking/aggro mechanic is not fixing a problem, its creating a whole new one.
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Alindyar
The Golden Goat
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Posted - 2008.05.10 20:47:00 -
[34]
Originally by: fkingfurious
By my maths it'll only manage 1000DPS with drones if you have Dreadnought 5 trained in which case i say good luck to ya.
With Garde II's and a sentry damage mod it " Only" does 990 or so with Dreadnought 4.
That is epically funny tho, and tbh anyone who cant get themselves docked before they get killed by that thing probably deserves to get slapped. Unless people are actually seriously trying to fight a Dreadnought thats parked on a station without a cap fleet of their own. In which case they still deserve to get slapped.
I have dreadnought 5, actual dps is 1025.
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Yakia TovilToba
Halliburton Inc.
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Posted - 2008.05.10 21:27:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Sweet Pea
The ship isn't overpowered. You need to fit rails to shoot anything larger then a small POS, unless you drop right on top of your target for blaster work. He's also station camping, letting him run that no tank setup safely. A 15 man carrier gank squad will waste him in less then 60 seconds since he has no tank. Bump him off station and a Blasterthron will own him. The drone bonus is from the day this ship was able to field 35 heavy drones (before the drone lag reduction). DPS wise this ship is very simalar to other dreads, and it fits with the gallente warfare theory (blasters and drones). You nerf the drones you just killed the ship for what its design purpose is.
I think it's well overpowered. It's a dread, yet it can kill anything from a frigate up to other caps. It's even more effective against small targets than some battelships (such as the torp raven), while being deadly to other caps compared to that battelships.
Other dreads can't do that.
It's the i-win button, the one-man-dread+support-boat.
Remember the discussion about the "swiss army knife of eve" ? Devs wanted to nerf carriers because they had so many roles. The moros is exactly that.
And this insane drone bonus is not only good for station undock games.
If you for example have a cap ship fight and lose your support fleet to the enemies support fleet or to a Doomsday or to whatever, any dread is helpless against smaller ships / tacklers, while the moros can still easy kill the enemies support, while dealing the main damage on primary caps/pos.
There shouldn't be such multiple role covering i-win buttons or swiss army knifes, expecially not if it's limited to only one race while all the others don't have such a tool.
Ofc. it's wrong to just take away that drone bonus without a replacement, instead it should be traded for a railgun damagebonus or something alike, that will bring it in line with other dreads.
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Alindyar
The Golden Goat
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Posted - 2008.05.10 21:33:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Yakia TovilToba
Originally by: Sweet Pea
The ship isn't overpowered. You need to fit rails to shoot anything larger then a small POS, unless you drop right on top of your target for blaster work. He's also station camping, letting him run that no tank setup safely. A 15 man carrier gank squad will waste him in less then 60 seconds since he has no tank. Bump him off station and a Blasterthron will own him. The drone bonus is from the day this ship was able to field 35 heavy drones (before the drone lag reduction). DPS wise this ship is very simalar to other dreads, and it fits with the gallente warfare theory (blasters and drones). You nerf the drones you just killed the ship for what its design purpose is.
I think it's well overpowered. It's a dread, yet it can kill anything from a frigate up to other caps. It's even more effective against small targets than some battelships (such as the torp raven), while being deadly to other caps compared to that battelships.
Other dreads can't do that.
It's the i-win button, the one-man-dread+support-boat.
Remember the discussion about the "swiss army knife of eve" ? Devs wanted to nerf carriers because they had so many roles. The moros is exactly that.
And this insane drone bonus is not only good for station undock games.
If you for example have a cap ship fight and lose your support fleet to the enemies support fleet or to a Doomsday or to whatever, any dread is helpless against smaller ships / tacklers, while the moros can still easy kill the enemies support, while dealing the main damage on primary caps/pos.
There shouldn't be such multiple role covering i-win buttons or swiss army knifes, expecially not if it's limited to only one race while all the others don't have such a tool.
Ofc. it's wrong to just take away that drone bonus without a replacement, instead it should be traded for a railgun damagebonus or something alike, that will bring it in line with other dreads.
I disagree, however, im not trying to be bias here.
Leave the drone DMG bonus, replace the drone HP bonus with something else.
Without the HP bonus its almost impossible to camp like this.
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Theochrista Petronella
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Posted - 2008.05.11 08:06:00 -
[37]
lol
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TimMc
Gallente
Genos Occidere
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Posted - 2008.05.11 09:07:00 -
[38]
Crap setup. The real problem is dock ranges.
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Polkageist
Minmatar
The Graduates
Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2008.05.11 15:44:00 -
[39]
dock range should be fixed first, then maybe some skilled pilots will get their glory!
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Sharp Feather
Gallente
Ministry of Natural Resources
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Posted - 2008.05.11 17:23:00 -
[40]
Ah yeah, I forgot to say, to all the morons that said; ''Oh noes, that setup do as much dps as a megathron, you fail, im so clever''. Well you forgot about the fact that mega doesnt have 156 250 shield, 187 500 armor hitpoints and thats whitout skills and fitting... so yeah you can do that 1500 dps for a LOOOOOONG time....thats mean you can take over multiple target a lot easier.
Think with your head. 
/facepalm 
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Hellspawn666
Minmatar
Master Miners
Intruders.
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Posted - 2008.05.11 17:34:00 -
[41]
Surely the problem here is that stations are screwed up rather then the ship itself. Since this particular setup would go down insanly fast to any resemble bs fleet and to one dread very fast also...
Not to mention its locking speed isnt exactly fantastic ever with an SS sensor booster, so most things will be able to redock long before. It seems an archon would do better in this situation since im assuming this setup isnt solo or your gonna have trouble killing anything undocking in time due to your lock speed.
Moros is balanced in the fact for high damage you really have to use ions which is pretty hard to fit a good tank with and fit a web which you need or any capital will get out of range in time. Meaning your tank gets nurfed which plus the high cap use of the guns means your tank aint so great. Admitally it is the best dread solo against support ships but i would prefer a phoenix with a rapier anytime :P since that will instant pop any support ship.
So what really needs addressing is docking ranges, some stations have insane ranges which is too powerful and makes it far too easy for deagro, whereas overs have dock ranges which mean in a capital your 4km off by the time youve undocked making you mince meat to anyone who uncloaks outside. I would like to see a universal dock range plus a dock range that is shown since atm 0m from station could look like your ages off the station.
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Hellspawn666
Minmatar
Master Miners
Intruders.
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Posted - 2008.05.11 17:39:00 -
[42]
Not to mention if this setup was really that fantastic i hardly think this guy would be posting it on the forums, personally i think it means camping for years to get a chance at a few kills since 90% of people will redock easily in time unless your in say an indy. This thread is just an opportunity for people who have been taken on a moros at close range and suppried when they got owned.
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AstroPhobic
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.05.11 17:43:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Hellspawn666
90% of people will redock easily in time unless your in say an indy
Did you take a poll?
Did you conduct a survey?
Did you observe over 1000 moros station ganks?
No? Then don't make up numbers. Thanks.
Astro
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Alindyar
The Golden Goat
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Posted - 2008.05.11 17:58:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Alindyar on 11/05/2008 17:59:43
Originally by: Hellspawn666
Surely the problem here is that stations are screwed up rather then the ship itself. Since this particular setup would go down insanly fast to any resemble bs fleet and to one dread very fast also...
Not to mention its locking speed isnt exactly fantastic ever with an SS sensor booster, so most things will be able to redock long before. It seems an archon would do better in this situation since im assuming this setup isnt solo or your gonna have trouble killing anything undocking in time due to your lock speed.
Moros is balanced in the fact for high damage you really have to use ions which is pretty hard to fit a good tank with and fit a web which you need or any capital will get out of range in time. Meaning your tank gets nurfed which plus the high cap use of the guns means your tank aint so great. Admitally it is the best dread solo against support ships but i would prefer a phoenix with a rapier anytime :P since that will instant pop any support ship.
So what really needs addressing is docking ranges, some stations have insane ranges which is too powerful and makes it far too easy for deagro, whereas overs have dock ranges which mean in a capital your 4km off by the time youve undocked making you mince meat to anyone who uncloaks outside. I would like to see a universal dock range plus a dock range that is shown since atm 0m from station could look like your ages off the station.
Assuming I never turn on my local repairer. You need 16,666 dps to kill me before I can dock.
Phoenix + Rapier is a 600second dedication to a kill. My moros requires 1/10th of that.
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft
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Posted - 2008.05.11 18:28:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Nyphur on 11/05/2008 18:31:24
A certain magician would disagree with you.
To clarify, the first moros kill was with his siege module and the second was when we managed to bump him out of dock range. I think it's perfectly plausible to bump a dread out of dock range within 60 seconds. It's pretty good but it's not invinceable.
Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened. |
Zeba
Minmatar
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.05.11 19:50:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Nyphur
Edited by: Nyphur on 11/05/2008 18:31:24
A certain magician would disagree with you.
To clarify, the first moros kill was with his siege module and the second was when we managed to bump him out of dock range. I think it's perfectly plausible to bump a dread out of dock range within 60 seconds. It's pretty good but it's not invinceable.
But what about two or even three camping the station?
inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan |
AnKahn
Caldari
Occassus Republica
Legio Mithras
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Posted - 2008.05.11 19:55:00 -
[47]
Some things never change. Most get bored griefing GM.
You have to respect his isk making ability. Anyone have an audio on him? Just curious.
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Akat
Slacker Industries
Exuro Mortis
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Posted - 2008.05.11 20:47:00 -
[48]
If that ship with that setup got knocked off station, it would die in a god damned fire. If it has not already happened, bet you balls it will.
The moros, in an of itself is perfectly fine even if it can serve a different purpose than than the other dreads. Sure, out of siege mode it has an impressive amount of damage with drones, but drones are killable especially under sentry fire.
Also: If in a situation that requires siege mode, you can only lock 2 targets. Any ship that decides to stick around long enough for a sieged moros to lock it, deserves the swarm of angry bees that are coming to them.
Phoenix is just as lethal in a similar situation, fyi. Each dread has its own benefits. Perhaps you think we should nerf all versatility?
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Jessica Kreer
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Posted - 2008.05.11 20:47:00 -
[49]
Make drone damage bonus in-siege only. Solves the issue entirely.
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Akat
Slacker Industries
Exuro Mortis
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Posted - 2008.05.11 20:52:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Sweet Pea
Then the problem isn't the ship, its the docking/aggro mechanics. For if his ship were unable to redock he would be toast. Nerfing the ship due to a pilots ability to exploit the docking/aggro mechanic is not fixing a problem, its creating a whole new one.
For truth. Certain station like in this case and the gallente outpost (which is freaking huge) have ridiculous docking ranges. In other cases, staions like 2nd station amarr have noticably small size and immediatley launch you out of docking range...
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Ivan Kinsikor
Amarr
Void Engineers
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Posted - 2008.05.11 22:45:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Sweet Pea
Then the problem isn't the ship, its the docking/aggro mechanics. For if his ship were unable to redock he would be toast. Nerfing the ship due to a pilots ability to exploit the docking/aggro mechanic is not fixing a problem, its creating a whole new one.
^^^^ This
Docking mechanics need to be changed badly.
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*****es don't know 'bout my nano'd Titan
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Dalseta Volitare
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Posted - 2008.05.11 23:11:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Alindyar
Edited by: Alindyar on 10/05/2008 00:29:27
Recently, I've been camping with a Moros (Lame, smack me w/e)...
However, the problem is... It works, and it works VERY well.
First off this is nothing new, there are many Gank Moros' in eve these days.
And it's not overpowered, it's just overpowered when it's moros vs <insert not a capital ship here>
If you bring in one piece of e-war / 4 or 5 guys. Dead Morros. Or if they hot drop their own caps on you, with a fit like that you'll be dead in a minute.
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft
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Posted - 2008.05.11 23:38:00 -
[53]
Originally by: AnKahn
Some things never change. Most get bored griefing GM.
You have to respect his isk making ability.
Actually, ginger magician got permabanned a long time ago. He'd already weasled his way out of a previous permaban so this time it stuck. And I have no respect for his isk-making ability because all he did was exploit his corpmates. They camped the rancer gate (an estimated 1b a day in loot comes through there) and paid for their own ships and ginger magician always kept all the loot for himself. Rumour has it he's the CEO of some big company in real life and hired people to play eve with him and be his friends.
Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened. |
El Yatta
Mercenary Forces
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Posted - 2008.05.11 23:41:00 -
[54]
I dont get it. How can it be overpowered in PVP when pvp doesnt really happen, very much, on station undocks. Far more happens at gates, belts, and at moons with starbases. A ship that can only be used in one part of one grid is useless.
_______________________________________________
Mercenary Forces |
Amastat
Caldari
Omegatech
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Posted - 2008.05.11 23:51:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Amastat on 11/05/2008 23:53:04
Edited by: Amastat on 11/05/2008 23:52:45
Moros is only ever 'overpowered' against sub-capitals, and/or other capitals if it actually gets in range with blasters.
All it takes to seriously **** over a Moros is to bait it into siege mode, then have a ship that can speed tank or w/e orbit with points on the Moros, or just drop a dictor bubble.
Then you have a few phoenix's jump into grid 100+km out, go into siege mode, then slam the Moros with a wall of citadel torps.
I Don't think a gank-fit Moros is going to be able pretty much anything at all when its fitted with blasters and it has a phoenix's or other ranged dreads nuking it at long range, and the Moros can't warp and most certainly can't go 100km at sub-light and fight its way out.
The biggest vulnerability is range - the Moros cannot go fast enough to intercept the snipers on sub-light engines. So - even though it can *****small ships and makes a good gatecamp dread, it will need support unless you want to risk this happening to your Moros.
____________________
"All warfare is based on deception... we must seem unable...seem inactive...and crush him " - Sun Tzu, the |
Nyphur
Pillowsoft
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Posted - 2008.05.12 00:05:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Amastat
All it takes to seriously **** over a Moros is to bait it into siege mode, then have a ship that can speed tank or w/e orbit with points on the Moros, or just drop a dictor bubble.
Then you have a few phoenix's jump into grid 100+km out, go into siege mode, then slam the Moros with a wall of citadel torps.
You've never fought a dreadnought before, have you? Dreadnoughts in siege mode are immune to warp scrambling but they can't warp or jump when in siege mode anyway. There's no need for scramblers or interdictors at all. Additionally, the original poster said he doesn't even fit a siege module. To kill him, you'd need to do one of three things:
1) Bump him off the docking range and kill him.
2) Goad him into attacking and gank him within 60 seconds
3) Make his game crash and kill him.
I included number 3 just to point out that while it may not be possible to MAKE his game crash, you can certainly take advantage of it should it happen naturally. #1 is going to be difficult with the station he camps because of its bugged docking range. #2 would require at least 5-6 sieging dreadnoughts and preferably a battleship or two with neuts. It is indeed very hard to legitimately kill a dreadnought that's on the docking ring unless he makes a mistake or you've got a large enough force to throw at it.
Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened. |
Amastat
Caldari
Omegatech
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Posted - 2008.05.12 00:11:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Nyphur
Originally by: Amastat
All it takes to seriously **** over a Moros is to bait it into siege mode, then have a ship that can speed tank or w/e orbit with points on the Moros, or just drop a dictor bubble.
Then you have a few phoenix's jump into grid 100+km out, go into siege mode, then slam the Moros with a wall of citadel torps.
You've never fought a dreadnought before, have you? Dreadnoughts in siege mode are immune to warp scrambling but they can't warp or jump when in siege mode anyway. There's no need for scramblers or interdictors at all. Additionally, the original poster said he doesn't even fit a siege module. To kill him, you'd need to do one of three things:
1) Bump him off the docking range and kill him.
2) Goad him into attacking and gank him within 60 seconds
3) Make his game crash and kill him.
I included number 3 just to point out that while it may not be possible to MAKE his game crash, you can certainly take advantage of it should it happen naturally. #1 is going to be difficult with the station he camps because of its bugged docking range. #2 would require at least 5-6 sieging dreadnoughts and preferably a battleship or two with neuts. It is indeed very hard to legitimately kill a dreadnought that's on the docking ring unless he makes a mistake or you've got a large enough force to throw at it.
Trolls 
If he's not in siege you scramble the dread so he doesn't have a option to warp back in on-top of the sniper dreads. If he's in siege, then you don't really have a problem since he can't even move.. or align, or warp.
____________________
"All warfare is based on deception... we must seem unable...seem inactive...and crush him " - Sun Tzu, the |
Etho Demerzel
Gallente
Holy Clan of the Cone
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Posted - 2008.05.12 00:20:00 -
[58]
I am not a big fun of any capitals at all, but I have to recognize that the problem here is not the moros. The problem is the station aggro timer, which is a problem in SEVERAL other situations.
Just make people unable to dock for 15 min after they aggro and the problem is solved.
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"If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs." - CCP kieron... |
arbalesttom
Caldari
Glauxian Brothers
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Posted - 2008.05.12 00:27:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Etho Demerzel
Just make capital ships bar the supercapitals unable to dock for 5 min after they aggro and the problem is solved.
***Sig***
Originally by: Cpt Branko
That is a JoJo, a forum troll used by Amarr whiners.
If real men fly amarr, what does a nbermensch fly then? ---> Gallente ^(>_<)^ |
Hellspawn666
Minmatar
Master Miners
Intruders.
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Posted - 2008.05.12 00:32:00 -
[60]
Originally by: AstroPhobic
Originally by: Hellspawn666
90% of people will redock easily in time unless your in say an indy
Did you take a poll?
Did you conduct a survey?
Did you observe over 1000 moros station ganks?
No? Then don't make up numbers. Thanks.
Astro
1.) I didnt take a poll i said 90% as a rough estimate and a poll wouldnt tell you anything but opionin surely? which given the ammount of forum smacking alts wouldnt tell you anything.
2/3.)I didnt conduct a survey i simply used the figure 90% of people would redock to exemplify the fact that if you go to station in a large ship somebody undocks in dock range(who is not lagged out)and start locking him, unless hes an idiot hes not going to sit in dock range and die is he? Nor is he going to agro himself so all you can do (assuming you can lock him fast enough to stop him warping) is keep him docked at best.
So how about you address my points rather then simply suggesting im trying to prove somthing with statistics which wasnt at all the point.
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