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Devs: Why no skill queue?

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Xaen Caldari Caritas.	Posted - 2008.05.13 15:45:00 - [1] In a game that is marketed on the fact that you "level up" while not even logged in, you'd think there would be a skill queue so you don't have to babysit the game. It's been on the "In Development" page for over a year. So why don't we have it yet? IMO, it's the most obvious feature and long, long overdue, yet again tonight I have a choice: Babysit the skills, or train something other than what I want to train. WTF is the deal here? - Support fixing the UI\|Suggest Jita fixes\|Compact logs
Shionoya Risa The Xenodus Initiative. Overclockers Podpilot Services	Posted - 2008.05.13 15:50:00 - [2] Yes please, I want to login once, go on a 1 year holiday around the world and not actually play the game while training! -----
Xaen Caldari Caritas.	Posted - 2008.05.13 15:51:00 - [3] Originally by: Shionoya Risa Yes please, I want to login once, go on a 1 year holiday around the world and not actually play the game while training! Your mom says hi. - Support fixing the UI\|Suggest Jita fixes\|Compact logs
Shionoya Risa The Xenodus Initiative. Overclockers Podpilot Services	Posted - 2008.05.13 16:01:00 - [4] Originally by: Xaen Originally by: Shionoya Risa Yes please, I want to login once, go on a 1 year holiday around the world and not actually play the game while training! Your mom says hi. Oh noes, whatever shall I do, I feel so offended by your childish joke! -----
Raynar Alcohol Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2008.05.13 16:18:00 - [5] Edited by: Raynar Alcohol on 13/05/2008 16:19:39 ... and it could be easily implemented without helping character farmers. Just check after a skill is finished, if the character is still paid for and has a secondary skill selected switch to the secondary skill. End of story. Micromanaging my time around eve skill changes is no fun at all. -- Computer games donÆt affect kids. I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, weÆd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music.
Newbear	Posted - 2008.05.13 17:00:00 - [6] I think the reason is that ccp has not implemented this feature is because they do not want us to use up all of the game content too quickly. If there was a skill que, then I would guess people would get around 25% more sp. This means ccp would have to introduce 25% more content for players to skill up to. I think the biggest reason new players keep playing is to one day fly a capital ship. But after they get their caps then they get bored by pos warfare or fustrated by the lag and quit. As for Empire age or whatever its called, it sounds like more mission content for the bears. I do not think ccp will ever release a skill que. Click here for my High Security POS Service
Xaen Caldari Caritas.	Posted - 2008.05.13 17:11:00 - [7] Originally by: Shionoya Risa Originally by: Xaen Originally by: Shionoya Risa Yes please, I want to login once, go on a 1 year holiday around the world and not actually play the game while training! Your mom says hi. Oh noes, whatever shall I do, I feel so offended by your childish joke! As opposed to your childish trolling? - Support fixing the UI\|Suggest Jita fixes\|Compact logs
Xaen Caldari Caritas.	Posted - 2008.05.13 17:15:00 - [8] Originally by: Newbear I think the reason is that ccp has not implemented this feature is because they do not want us to use up all of the game content too quickly. I wasn't aware that a skill queue would accelerate entropy (time) in the universe. I for one never let a character go more than a few seconds without a skill training, so the net time saved by a skill queue would be minutes per year. Originally by: Newbear If there was a skill que, then I would guess people would get around 25% more sp. This means ccp would have to introduce 25% more content for players to skill up to. Well, while we're making up statistics on the spot, I would bet that players would actually enjoy the game at least 33% more, and thus would play 33% longer. Originally by: Newbear I think the biggest reason new players keep playing is to one day fly a capital ship. But after they get their caps then they get bored by pos warfare or fustrated by the lag and quit. I don't think so. There are probably tons of characters old enough to be in a cap ship, but not able to fly a single one. Xaen for example. 2.5 years old, 87 days from the nearest capital ship. - Support fixing the UI\|Suggest Jita fixes\|Compact logs
Zirconium Blade Ass Pounding Space Monkeys	Posted - 2008.05.13 17:21:00 - [9] My guess is that they havent decided if they really want to implement that, or what variation of the idea they want to implement.
Nekopyat	Posted - 2008.05.13 17:42:00 - [10] Originally by: Xaen I wasn't aware that a skill queue would accelerate entropy (time) in the universe. I for one never let a character go more than a few seconds without a skill training, so the net time saved by a skill queue would be minutes per year. Actually what it would effect would be less raw SP and more usable SP. If one plays only a little at a time you end up with a significant percentage of your SP tied up in partial skill levels since in order to not waste SP you have to juggle a pile of skills that sit in the 'between 22 hours and 2 hours left' (assuming 2 hours of play per day). I looking at my chart I would say about 10% of my SP is tied up in such skills at any given time (on a 10MSP character) It also means you end up with more 'long' skills trained... so rather then having a few low levels of multiple skills you have high levels of fewer skills, and given the law of diminishing returns on the EvE skill system that means they get less actual bonus out of the same number of SP.
Erotic Irony 0bsession	Posted - 2008.05.13 18:33:00 - [11] You got lingorm to post in your UI thread in GD--in a few years we'll get a pedantic response in here too, just wait! In other news, in the interest of subversive ~~trolling~~ posting whilst calling attention deficient features, have you thought about doing this thread in events as a lottery? BET MONEY ON WHEN THIS FEATURE WILL MATERIALIZE: CHRISTMAS 09! SUPERBOWL '11! VOTE OBAMA HURF BLURF CCP ___ Eve Players are not very smart. Support Killmail Overhaul
Pliauga Gallente Militek Industries	Posted - 2008.05.13 19:04:00 - [12] A 48 hour skill que is all that would take to please me on this question. I don't think that would make a very big negative inpact on the game. We want drone LOVE!!!
Xaen Caldari Caritas.	Posted - 2008.05.13 19:41:00 - [13] Originally by: Erotic Irony You got lingorm to post in your UI thread in GD--in a few years we'll get a pedantic response in here too, just wait! In other news, in the interest of subversive ~~trolling~~ posting whilst calling attention deficient features, have you thought about doing this thread in events as a lottery? BET MONEY ON WHEN THIS FEATURE WILL MATERIALIZE: CHRISTMAS 09! SUPERBOWL '11! VOTE OBAMA HURF BLURF CCP I'm curious as to what precisely it is that you're drinking/smoking. - Support fixing the UI\|Suggest Jita fixes\|Compact logs
Marcus Gideon	Posted - 2008.05.13 20:40:00 - [14] Originally by: Pliauga A 48 hour skill que is all that would take to please me on this question. I don't think that would make a very big negative inpact on the game. Not too sure how I'd feel about a 48 hr. Considering some Level V can takes weeks to complete. But being military, and leaving for weeks at a time for training, I'd like to knock some of those out of the way while I'm gone. I'd say, have another single skill queued after the one you currently have. If that's going from I to II, then you've compacted a few hours. If that's a V and another V, then you could have a month of training going. I'm not by any means saying you can buy a skillbook, and queue it to V and walk away. Just what's going right now, and the next skill to follow after.
Kitoba Minmatar Legion of Dynamic Discord	Posted - 2008.05.13 21:54:00 - [15] I'd go for a maximum selection of two simultaneous skills (or a tier 64 or 128 skill that allows you to train more skills in parallel) and the ability to say "train next level", "train to III" up to "train to V".
Jason Edwards	Posted - 2008.05.13 22:05:00 - [16] Originally by: Kitoba I'd go for a maximum selection of two simultaneous skills (or a tier 64 or 128 skill that allows you to train more skills in parallel) and the ability to say "train next level", "train to III" up to "train to V". Train to V would be enough in my opinion.
Jbobj Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.05.13 22:19:00 - [17] A single "Backup-skill", that automatically is started when one skill is finished, and can only be set if the current skill has less then 24 hours left would be a simple elegant solution, and would be great. It would especially be great for the newer players like me, who happen to have tons of 6-15 hour skills, that don't fit around a normal persons schedule at all. There are no real possibilities of abuse for something like that, so come on, implement it already!
Raven Timoshenko Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2008.05.14 02:02:00 - [18] Why don't we just have the same skill automatically train up to the next level, and stop when it hits V? That way people do still have to log in if they want to switch skills, but not ifthey are training the same skill. Mining, Hacking and Archeology Mini Games http://oldforums.eveonline.com/? a=topic&threadID=7463
Kyra Felann Gallente Noctis Fleet Technologies	Posted - 2008.05.14 04:57:00 - [19] Originally by: Shionoya Risa Yes please, I want to login once, go on a 1 year holiday around the world and not actually play the game while training! Congrats on being the first to use this overused and fallacious "argument" in this thread! I'm sure there will be many more, but you were first, and that should mean something!
Kyra Felann Gallente Noctis Fleet Technologies	Posted - 2008.05.14 05:01:00 - [20] I've said it before in other threads, and I'll say it again here: the skills that irritate me and take forever to get trained are the skills that take around 5-6 hours or so--longer than I'm normally online, yet shorter that I'm normally asleep. I'd love to see just a 24 hour queue. That way I can queue up some short skills, but I'd still have to log on at least once a day to change skills.
Ambani Gallente Infinitus Morti R0ADKILL	Posted - 2008.05.14 05:50:00 - [21] /signed. Meet Eve's most paranoid carebear - Ambani!
CalMiner	Posted - 2008.05.14 09:19:00 - [22] I hope queues are implemented soon. There should atleast be 3 skills in the queue system, or maybe we should be allowed to train more than one skill at a time.
Eleana Tomelac Gallente Through the Looking Glass	Posted - 2008.05.14 12:31:00 - [23] Farmers blah blah blah... <= Not something that should penalize legit players. Two things needed : -Cancel any skill training when deactivating account. -Add a skill queue with as much training as we want. So, farmers, if they want to farm, they'll just use a macro to change the skill when training finished yells. If they're making money on the characters, they will spend time on it. Now, any legit player has a life, must have a work to pay the bills (including eve) and can't be there at any time of the day to switch skills and will follow the EULA and not use a macro for something like switching skills... -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast ! Assault Frigates MK II
Xaen Caldari Caritas.	Posted - 2008.05.15 18:06:00 - [24] Originally by: Kyra Felann I've said it before in other threads, and I'll say it again here: the skills that irritate me and take forever to get trained are the skills that take around 5-6 hours or so--longer than I'm normally online, yet shorter that I'm normally asleep. I'd love to see just a 24 hour queue. That way I can queue up some short skills, but I'd still have to log on at least once a day to change skills. Those are my problem skills too. I don't think that's unique. I can only complete them in one binge session on the weekends and they're logically in between the short skills I can finish in one game session, and the long ones I can run overnight/at work. So basically every skill in the game has a training barrier somewhere between level II and level IV inclusive. Way to phail! - Support fixing the UI\|Suggest Jita fixes\|Compact logs
procurement specialist	Posted - 2008.05.15 20:41:00 - [25] Originally by: Kyra Felann I've said it before in other threads, and I'll say it again here: the skills that irritate me and take forever to get trained are the skills that take around 5-6 hours or so--longer than I'm normally online, yet shorter that I'm normally asleep. I'd love to see just a 24 hour queue. That way I can queue up some short skills, but I'd still have to log on at least once a day to change skills. /signed
Kaiden Exeider Gallente Astrowork Systems	Posted - 2008.05.16 00:17:00 - [26] while i think a queue would be good, but for whatever reason CCP wouldn't put it on. How about the ability to change skills from a website interface. what about that? -K
Xaen Caldari Caritas.	Posted - 2008.05.16 14:49:00 - [27] Originally by: Kaiden Exeider while i think a queue would be good, but for whatever reason CCP wouldn't put it on. How about the ability to change skills from a website interface. what about that? -K Current system < web interface < queue, in my opinion. - Support fixing the UI\|Suggest Jita fixes\|Compact logs
Jinx Barker GFB Scientific	Posted - 2008.05.16 14:55:00 - [28] I have said that before, I would say it again: I am all for the "proper" way of playing EVE, you Pay to Play. I agree that sometimes it is impossible to be there when the skill finishes. I would go for a version of the Skill Queue that would allow one or two skills at most, and something that would limit a less scrupulous player from scheduling Titan L5, and and going on a holiday. Perhaps a Skill Queue that would deactivate upon deactivation of an account. Of course, leaving the current system that allows a skill to finish training when account goes inactive. JB.
CrestoftheStars Recreation Of The World	Posted - 2008.05.16 19:21:00 - [29] Originally by: Shionoya Risa Originally by: Xaen Originally by: Shionoya Risa Yes please, I want to login once, go on a 1 year holiday around the world and not actually play the game while training! Your mom says hi. Oh noes, whatever shall I do, I feel so offended by your childish joke! even though i most say his comment is childish, i see no other answer for your lack of constructive respons. it wouldn't hurt in anyway to allow a skill queue of some sort, you could even make it so it can only be set on queuing skills of up to 1month, so there, now you would need to log in every month anyway, which means you can accutally go on vecation without knowing that you either learn something useless you don't want or don't learn anything ingame.. ___________________________________________ Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of himself without that law is both. For a wounded
grgjegb gergerg Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.05.17 00:38:00 - [30] My last skill would have finished at 4am... so I switched early, and now I have TWO level 5 skills with 5 and 4 hours left to train. I really should get those up.
Marcus Gideon	Posted - 2008.05.17 00:51:00 - [31] A month long queue is definately too long. People could just log in occasionally, to make sure it's still running, and come back to a fully trained Titan pilot before too long. Considering how many people pay for multiple accounts, who wouldn't budget one more aside and just let it grow to become the best (whatever) it could be. I still agree however, that some form of a queue would be awesome. If nothing more than to set the next single skill to train after your current one finishes. If you happen to be training a Level V, and then queue another Level V, then there's your month worth of training. But to plan a month's worth of Level I and II would be downright cheating.
Xaen Caldari Caritas.	Posted - 2008.05.18 02:59:00 - [32] Originally by: Marcus Gideon A month long queue is definately too long. People could just log in occasionally, to make sure it's still running, and come back to a fully trained Titan pilot before too long. Considering how many people pay for multiple accounts, who wouldn't budget one more aside and just let it grow to become the best (whatever) it could be. I still agree however, that some form of a queue would be awesome. If nothing more than to set the next single skill to train after your current one finishes. If you happen to be training a Level V, and then queue another Level V, then there's your month worth of training. But to plan a month's worth of Level I and II would be downright cheating. I fail to see how allowing a player to have a life instead of forcing them to log in every few minutes to few hours bestows any sort of advantage in game. - Support fixing the UI\|Suggest Jita fixes\|Compact logs
Ameliorate	Posted - 2008.05.18 03:20:00 - [33] Skill queue would be excellent and the argument that it would help character farmers is ridiculous. There are already programs that automate skill training so if anything it would hurt character farmers as they are required to make/get a new program (due to the skill screen changes). The only thing is that the "bug" where characters continue to skillup while the account is inactive would need to be fixed. Being able to set a skill training through the browser would be good too. It could be protected with a CAPTCHA to make it harder for programs to do it and then players would be able to set skills training at work, school or even on mobile phones.
Astria Tiphareth Caldari	Posted - 2008.05.18 07:36:00 - [34] Edited by: Astria Tiphareth on 18/05/2008 07:40:35 Mods: any chance of a merge with the other (very long now) Skill Queue thread? Actually, never mind, that's a can of worms, there are now so many skill queue threads... Anyone would think this concept was popular... Edit: I'm tired this morning so this may be rather terse; feel free to search the above thread for a more eloquent version. I'm for a skill queue and so far I can't see a compelling reason not to have one. I for one already log in briefly to change a skill often when I don't really want to be doing so. Farmers isn't an argument, they can just make a macro to do it just like mining (it's even easier than automating mining, for sure). As I have already said in other skill queue threads, the lack of a queue puts some people off, phrases like 'I don't have time to even think about EVE today, I don't want it running my life just because they can't be bothered to implement a queue' for example. CCP have long made a big deal about how they don't want to force people to do things. Whilst in the letter of the act, they don't force people to log in purely to change skills, in the spirit of things they do at the moment. A queue would solve this. I don't care whether it's next skill, a queue, whatever, people will as be lazy as they already are, it makes no difference to whether they're in and playing the game. ___ "If you can't debate using logic & fact, and at least recognise other people's point of view, don't waste time posting on forums. It only makes you look like a teenage idiot."
CrestoftheStars Recreation Of The World	Posted - 2008.05.18 15:42:00 - [35] Originally by: Xaen Originally by: Marcus Gideon A month long queue is definately too long. People could just log in occasionally, to make sure it's still running, and come back to a fully trained Titan pilot before too long. Considering how many people pay for multiple accounts, who wouldn't budget one more aside and just let it grow to become the best (whatever) it could be. I still agree however, that some form of a queue would be awesome. If nothing more than to set the next single skill to train after your current one finishes. If you happen to be training a Level V, and then queue another Level V, then there's your month worth of training. But to plan a month's worth of Level I and II would be downright cheating. I fail to see how allowing a player to have a life instead of forcing them to log in every few minutes to few hours bestows any sort of advantage in game. just my thought ___________________________________________ Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of himself without that law is both. For a wounded
Burrito Sabanero	Posted - 2008.05.18 15:43:00 - [36] Also coming from a 3rd world country (Venezuela, hehe), i'd love the idea of a skill queue, simply because we experience powerlosses over hours, even 1-2 days sometimes... Or the internet provider fu...s things up and i can't login and I loose a lot of training time due to this. I cannot always put some long term skill for I'll never finish anything, if i have to fear that i'll have powerloss and cannot switch
TimMc Gallente Genos Occidere	Posted - 2008.05.18 16:13:00 - [37] All you need is a 24 hour skill queue to get rid of short skills. Longer skills can be chosen based on how long you will be away.
Xaen Caritas.	Posted - 2008.05.23 15:42:00 - [38] Originally by: Jinx Barker I have said that before, I would say it again: I am all for the "proper" way of playing EVE, you Pay to Play. I agree that sometimes it is impossible to be there when the skill finishes. I would go for a version of the Skill Queue that would allow one or two skills at most, and something that would limit a less scrupulous player from scheduling Titan L5, and and going on a holiday. Perhaps a Skill Queue that would deactivate upon deactivation of an account. Of course, leaving the current system that allows a skill to finish training when account goes inactive. JB. I really don't see anything wrong with that. If they want to afk train for Titan Level V, then go lose the thing because they don't know wtf they're doing with it (because they weren't playing) the problem works itself out. - Support fixing the UI\|Suggest Jita fixes\|Compact logs
Frecator Dementa	Posted - 2008.05.23 15:51:00 - [39] Edited by: Frecator Dementa on 23/05/2008 15:53:03 Originally by: CrestoftheStars just my thought same here also, what would be the problem with a 1-year queue, as long as the player pays for the subscription for that long ? How is an afk-trained 1 year char any different from an once-per-day login trained one, seriously? apart from annoying the hell out of players it does no real good ----------------------- forum ate my post again
procurement specialist	Posted - 2008.05.23 17:03:00 - [40] make it where you had a default skill you would switch too when the current ran out at worst. as long as the queue didn't activate on inactive accounts it shouldn't matter. personally i would leave inactive skill training up. The character can't make any isk in game or do anything other than let the timer run. As long as the queue doesn't activate if the account is disabled i fail to see the big issue.
Fwaps Continuously	Posted - 2008.05.23 17:34:00 - [41] Originally by: procurement specialist make it where you had a default skill you would switch too when the current ran out at worst. as long as the queue didn't activate on inactive accounts it shouldn't matter. personally i would leave inactive skill training up. The character can't make any isk in game or do anything other than let the timer run. As long as the queue doesn't activate if the account is disabled i fail to see the big issue. This seems fine to me - come on CCP! my default when I'm not training the small stuff will be Battleship V
Yuri Mengeroth Very Bad Things	Posted - 2008.05.24 02:26:00 - [42] All those in support of the queue should show their support in the new CSM forum for community issues.
Sir Substance	Posted - 2008.05.24 03:02:00 - [43] Originally by: Fwaps Continuously Originally by: procurement specialist make it where you had a default skill you would switch too when the current ran out at worst. as long as the queue didn't activate on inactive accounts it shouldn't matter. personally i would leave inactive skill training up. The character can't make any isk in game or do anything other than let the timer run. As long as the queue doesn't activate if the account is disabled i fail to see the big issue. This seems fine to me - come on CCP! my default when I'm not training the small stuff will be Battleship V ya, i think this is a good idea. id stick mine on indy V
Derfyl Cadarn	Posted - 2008.05.26 08:59:00 - [44] How about letting us update skills from the eve-online website. Unfortunately, i have to work and I'm not allowed to have the Eve client on my work computer. (so unreasonable). We would all have more chance of getting onto this website at some point. At work or on holiday etc. Doesnt really change anything else.
Kerfira University of Caille	Posted - 2008.05.26 09:31:00 - [45] There is a sticky thread called 'Commonly Proposed Ideas'. This is intended for use by people like the OP who just comes in here with a really bad but obvious idea, doesn't take the time to look whether this has been argued a gazillion times before (it has), and just starts posting away. Useless thread....... The subject has been argued to death already..... Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Xaen Caritas.	Posted - 2008.05.30 18:28:00 - [46] Originally by: Kerfira There is a sticky thread called 'Commonly Proposed Ideas'. This is intended for use by people like the OP who just comes in here with a really bad but obvious idea, doesn't take the time to look whether this has been argued a gazillion times before (it has), and just starts posting away. Useless thread....... The subject has been argued to death already..... So why are you bumping it for me? - Support fixing the UI\|Suggest Jita fixes\|Compact logs
Carl Smite Dracula Order Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2008.06.03 10:37:00 - [47] Originally by: Jinx Barker I have said that before, I would say it again: I am all for the "proper" way of playing EVE, you Pay to Play. I agree that sometimes it is impossible to be there when the skill finishes. I would go for a version of the Skill Queue that would allow one or two skills at most, and something that would limit a less scrupulous player from scheduling Titan L5, and and going on a holiday. Perhaps a Skill Queue that would deactivate upon deactivation of an account. Of course, leaving the current system that allows a skill to finish training when account goes inactive. JB. /signed.
Jintau Kawazoe Isonami Syndicate	Posted - 2008.06.03 11:48:00 - [48] Edited by: Jintau Kawazoe on 03/06/2008 11:49:25 I think perhaps a key reason why this hasn't been implemented, even after so many people asking for it, is because it would make it really easy 'farm' high SP chars for sale or use by isk sellers (mining ore).. If it was done via a web interface, even with captchas someone would write an automation script to it. Or even if they didn,t you'd have children in china being paid $0.001/hr to "change skills on this website" all day long..... Edit: Although some sort of short term skill queue or as devs have previously said having a "secondary" skill on train, would be most welcomed by all us non-nolifers. Isonami Syndicate Recruitment Thread pew pew!
DrDooma	Posted - 2008.06.03 12:18:00 - [49] IMO there are two reasons: Reword VS Effort The part of our brain that controls pleasure is quite complex. However one simple way of stimulating it is to give it rewords for archiving certain goals. Feeling of accomplishing something makes that part of the brain produce certain chemical that make us feel good and come back to the source of the feeling. Casual players You are likely to login more often to check and change your skills. Since you already made the effort to login, might as well play for a few hours. This increases the number of casual players in game which is vital to long term EVE population. If you can queue your skills, it feels like you are getting something (skills) for nothing (no effort) as long as you pay your monthly fee. So if a player was to consider to stop playing the game, the choice to do so would be very easy as they have not put any effort into building their character in terms of RL time/effort or in-game time/effort.
Nekopyat	Posted - 2008.06.03 14:32:00 - [50] Originally by: DrDooma Casual players You are likely to login more often to check and change your skills. Since you already made the effort to login, might as well play for a few hours. This increases the number of casual players in game which is vital to long term EVE population. I could see the logic behind this, and I would not be surprised if some devs think this, but speaking as a casual player this backfires pretty badly. Casual players end up with a large number of SP locked up in incomplete skills. In addition they have fewer 'small' skills and take longer to bring skills to completion, so they end up with high levels of frustration since basic rewards are dangled out in front of them for so long.
Phext Lux Immortalis	Posted - 2008.06.03 15:46:00 - [51] Don't know if this is possible with the current game mechanics or if it has been suggested in one of the "skillqueue" threads: how about having one additional new "buffer"-skill for each skillgroup (electronics buffer, drones buffer,...) which works as a "buffer" if a skill within its group is finished? It can hold the skillpoints for it's group. The amount of skillpoints it can buffer should be calculated at the level you have reached at the "buffer"-skill and not exceed a maximum. I think total buffer of 48h per skillgroup should be enough at "bufferskill" skill lvl5. The buffer skill should require the "primary learning attribute skill" of this group at lvl5 ("instant recall" for "electronics, drones...", "spacial awareness" for "spaceship command"...etc). And maybe the depending advanced learning skill on lvl3 or 4 (because it is an "advanced learning technique to remember more than the things one has focused on). The skillpints within this buffer can only be used for skills in the same group. This way one is forced to spend the buffered skillpoints within "electronics" if the last skill finished have been in that group. This would match learning in RL. If I try to learn something about ECM, I will for sure read something about other technics regarding this "feature" but will not get into detail about how to repair the armor of a ship. An easy way to encounter the "offline titan queue" arguments which make sense from some point of view. In addition (or instead if implementing bufferskills is complete nonsense) I like the idea to be able to change skilltraining on eve-online.com. I also understand the reason to "force" people to connect and spend a few minutes ingame. Therefor switching skills via eve-online.com should cost ISK. The amount of ISK depends on the lvl the skill to be trained will reach. example: Switch skilltraining to a skill via eve-online.com that will be trained from lvl0 -> lvl1: 20k ISK lvl1 -> lvl2: 200k ISK lvl2 -> lvl3: 2.000.000 ISK lvl3 -> lvl4: 20.000.000 ISK lvl4 -> lvl5: 200.000.000 ISK Maybe the skill multiplier should be used as well. So that switching to "Battleship V" costs more than switching to "Destroyer V". Yet another way to get rid of your hard earned money. After thinking about the skillqueue thing I must say that it would be a nice feature if carefully implemented. But a plain "queue these 20 skills for the next 2 weeks" is not the right - at least not the "eve" way IMO. just my 2 ct
Sarin Adler	Posted - 2008.06.03 16:12:00 - [52] Originally by: Phext In addition (or instead if implementing bufferskills is complete nonsense) I like the idea to be able to change skilltraining on eve-online.com. I also understand the reason to "force" people to connect and spend a few minutes ingame. Therefor switching skills via eve-online.com should cost ISK. The amount of ISK depends on the lvl the skill to be trained will reach. /signed I find the skill queue fairly useless as when you reach lvl4/5 skills you actually don't lose so much time managing to change queues & crap (I would accept a qeuue though if it's implemented). But changing skills via eve-online.com is win, as theer are times you just can't login and/or have to use a computer where you don't have the game installed etc.
Xaen Caritas.	Posted - 2008.06.09 19:34:00 - [53] Originally by: Sarin Adler I find the skill queue fairly useless as when you reach lvl4/5 skills you actually don't lose so much time managing to change queues & crap (I would accept a qeuue though if it's implemented). Try starting something new. It sucks. There is never a good time for a 5-6 hour skill. I never play that long and it's not long enough to get through sleeping or work. Originally by: Sarin Adler But changing skills via eve-online.com is win, as theer are times you just can't login and/or have to use a computer where you don't have the game installed etc. I disagree. This buys me nothing for when I'm not at a computer with an internet connection. And it buys me nothing for when the internet/power goes out when I am. A bona fide queue is a more optimal solution. I see no reason to limit the queue beyond the skills that have already been started. Even provided they fix the bug where skills finish beyond your paid subscription. It conveys no conceivable advantage to the player doing it beyond convenience and the ability to train what they want rather than what will finish when they can change it. Some people have these things called "lives". I don't claim to be one of them, but they're definitely out there. And they're currently hindered and very annoyed. I want to plan my gaming around my real life, not vice versa. I really don't buy the "but somebody could just train to Titan V without ever playing" argument for two reasons. One, you'd have to log in and buy new books and start them. But even with that aside, who cares if they did? It would just end up as a comedy killmail for someone else. - Support fixing the UI\|Suggest Jita fixes\|Compact logs
Dmian Starline Engineering Corporation	Posted - 2008.06.10 00:23:00 - [54] Edited by: Dmian on 10/06/2008 00:23:48 Managing anything from the web is out of bounds. Getting data out= yes (using API) getting data in = no, no, no. Read here (bottom of the page.) Ideas I can remember from the past: -Let one skill escalate from lvl 1 all the way to lvl 5 then stop -Let you specify a small number of consecutive skills (like no more than 3 consecutive skills in a row) -Let you specify any number of skills as long as it does not exceed the time it takes for the longest skill to train (the hardest skill from lvl 4 to 5) -Let you train a main long-term skill and a secondary short-term skill at the same time. -Let you train for a set number of days (while you're on vacation.) proposals were 15 and 30 days. There were many more. I remeber those ones. ---- Eve Alpha - The font of Eve - Get it here
Schani Kratnorr x13	Posted - 2008.06.10 00:35:00 - [55] Quote: Devs: Why no skill queue? I am not a dev, but I play one on TV The answer is simple. Not having a skill training cue forces you to log in, which is what we at CCP would really want you players to do. Now, personally, I think it's a pin getting a dozen or so level one skills trained up, and could use a cue from time to time. Then again. Not having a cue forces me to plan ahead. I go for several long or medium-range skills as well as a set of short skills that I can chew away at when playing. The greatest single argument against a cue would be the "not having to play" argument. It would allow character-farmers to save a lot of time and required activity to get their product to a state where they can sell it. Most likely lead to less frustration among new players, but at the same time invite more consessions on the whole "why do I have to train, why cant I just grind XP?"-critisism. You either get EVE, or you dont. I am ambivalent about the cue-question. LEarning towards "no", but listening to the "yes"-argument.
Freezehunter The Scope	Posted - 2008.06.10 20:08:00 - [56] It would be very simple to implement this in sutch a way that char farmers can't benefit... If the guy that has skills in the queue (no matter how long it is) of an active, payed account, then continue training next skill in queue... If the guy only logs in, transfers money from his main, buys a ****load of skills and sets them all up to train at lvl 4 and 5 and then stops paying his account for a year, then stop the queue until he reactivates his account... Simple... I don't understand why CCP does not implement this...
Mankirks Wife	Posted - 2008.06.11 19:54:00 - [57] Originally by: Freezehunter It would be very simple to implement this in sutch a way that char farmers can't benefit... If the guy that has skills in the queue (no matter how long it is) of an active, payed account, then continue training next skill in queue... If the guy only logs in, transfers money from his main, buys a ****load of skills and sets them all up to train at lvl 4 and 5 and then stops paying his account for a year, then stop the queue until he reactivates his account... Simple... I don't understand why CCP does not implement this... Yeah, me either. My job takes me away for days (sometimes weeks) at a time and it's a pain in the ass to start training some huge lv. 5 skill just to not waste skill points. If the account is paid up I don't see why it would matter if you log it in or not. Of course, setting up the queue to actually function on the backend might take some work, and CCP is not a big company.
Najri DEATH'S LEGION	Posted - 2008.06.11 20:47:00 - [58] Edited by: Najri on 11/06/2008 20:49:23 Originally by: Shionoya Risa Yes please, I want to login once, go on a 1 year holiday around the world and not actually play the game while training! I don't think ccp gives a flying sh1t if someone logs in once in his (subscribed and payed for in advance) 3months or does it 3000 times, a matter of fact I think it would even get rid of a lot of serverstress caused by all that useless logging in and out. People ask for this cue to be able to enjoy this game more, not having to waste their time trying to avoid having their manual skillcueing interupted; any bussinessman knows that having happy custommers is having custommers who come back (or in this case stay) Also, like I mentionned in my own ideas post, I would like to see a learning skill that enables multiple skills being trained same time but while retaining a limited total skillspeed-bandwidth; you can either train one at full skillspeed or train several skills at the same time but with a total speed equal to the total speed optained by adding up each of these individual skillspeeds devided by the number of skills activated. Very similar to launching multiple downloads on same pc
Epidemis	Posted - 2008.06.11 23:39:00 - [59] Originally by: Shionoya Risa Originally by: Xaen Originally by: Shionoya Risa Yes please, I want to login once, go on a 1 year holiday around the world and not actually play the game while training! Your mom says hi. Oh noes, whatever shall I do, I feel so offended by your childish joke! Protip. He's just responding to your derailing of the topic.
Bahhs Deep	Posted - 2008.06.12 03:14:00 - [60] Why? Because the Devs hate you. Nope, not me, not the other characters...Just...You...and ONLY...you. CCP, Devs, God, and The Virgin Mary all HATE YOU. But not the Devil, he likes. He likey a LOT. Chuck Norris also hates you. You're dead to him. List of People I WILL NOT offer ransoms to. Inoue Zael,Hawk Pryde,Edward England,Kid Brat,Lord Scourge,Slayerseb, Blind John
Astria Tiphareth	Posted - 2008.06.12 14:12:00 - [61] I give you this (not that I agree with it, but hey, it's a dev response): Kieron's take ___ My views may not represent those of my corporation or alliance, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties...
Najri DEATH'S LEGION	Posted - 2008.06.12 22:19:00 - [62] Edited by: Najri on 12/06/2008 22:21:25 Originally by: Astria Tiphareth I give you this (not that I agree with it, but hey, it's a dev response): Kieron's take That answer is obscolete and erronous in numerous ways but also gives a nice example of what u get with developers who are NOT IN MARKETING.. It's very simple though, ignore your customers demands and get bankrupped. It is a basic and known bussiness rule; A satisfied customer is a faithful customer. The best manner to build a long period relation with your customers is to ensure optimum services. Faithful customers ensure healthy increase: they buy more, remain longer customer and carry new customers We can only hope someone who is in marketing reads these playerconcerns and gives someone a boot up the *** Unfortunatly judging from the actual patches I wonder if they ever do tbh. It looks more like atm devs do have total liberty on how they scr3w over this otherwise great game and are doing so by only investing intrest in the ideas, changes and issues they personally deem important being completely deaf and blind to the entire eve-community (many proofs of this statement are found in the lingering problems eve suffers from that keep being unresolved for way too long) probably untill cashflow drops and questions arise from the one who signs the checks... As it is now the people who started playing this game years ago and keep on being faithfull to it are doing so because they like eve more then the disgust about ccp's laxism can persuade them from looking elsewhere... However as new games appear, this disgust tends to be the proverbial last drop, how many members did your corp lose to Age of Conan lately?
Lenus Daragio coracao ardente	Posted - 2008.06.12 23:12:00 - [63] Edited by: Lenus Daragio on 12/06/2008 23:12:15 Originally by: Astria Tiphareth I give you this (not that I agree with it, but hey, it's a dev response): Kieron's take Here's my take: Originally by: CCP kieron The Devs have stated on a number of occasions the reasoning behind the decision to not introduce a skill queue system and a web-based interface for skill selection. Mostly, it centers around this being a game we want you to play, not a web-based competition centered around who can get to 100 Million skill points the fastest. I don't think there is really enough information to make that statement. Players that log on just to change skills normally say "I'm not playing, just changing skills real quick." I do agree that there is no need for a web-based skill changer though. By the way, it's already a competition to see who can get the most skillpoints, web-based or not. Originally by: CCP kieron There are work arounds for time constraints under the existing system. Set a short skill for the times when you are playing, a longer skill for the times when you are not available. Yes... and sometimes people have emergencies. Yes this is just a game, but it's also a game we pay for monthly. I'd like to know I'm getting all the bang I can for my buck since I'm shelling out about $10.50 for every million SP I am able to gain, whether I gain them or not. How about this... we don't get a skill queue, if we don't have to pay for the game when we aren't training a skill? Originally by: CCP kieron We are having a difficult enough time enforcing the issues caused by ISK and item sellers, let alone players selling characters on Ebay. We are not going to introduce another game mechanic that will allow 'character farmers' an easier time with their trade. This statement is counterproductive, and counter-intuitive. The problem with it is character farmers have no problems not wasting time with skill training, they're in this for the money, so they have the timing and everything down to an exact science. Forcing a player to log on to simply change skills does not make him want to play any more than he already does. This has been voiced in many posts, although I don't think there is enough demand to really justify a web-based skill changing program. Realistically, adding any form of a skill queue would hurt Character Farmers, since it would raise the average skillpoints of the population, lowering the prices of the characters they have been farming. Also, I don't believe it is moral to refuse the population something they both want and need because of people who are already abusing the system.
Xaen Caritas.	Posted - 2008.06.13 20:01:00 - [64] Originally by: Schani Kratnorr Quote: Devs: Why no skill queue? I am not a dev, but I play one on TV Actually I am a dev. Just not for CCP. Originally by: Schani Kratnorr [i]The answer is simple. You aren't a CCP dev either, so unless you think you're Sylvia Brown, you don't get to answer that either. Originally by: Schani Kratnorr Now, personally, I think it's a pin getting a dozen or so level one skills trained up, and could use a cue from time to time. Then again. Not having a cue forces me to plan ahead. I go for several long or medium-range skills as well as a set of short skills that I can chew away at when playing. So exactly when do train 5-6 hour skills? Originally by: Schani Kratnorr The greatest single argument against a cue would be the "not having to play" argument. It would allow character-farmers to save a lot of time and required activity to get their product to a state where they can sell it. This argument is brought up constantly and has no merit. Character farmers can farm just fine with or without a skill queue. This argument is like saying we should remove automatic transmissions from cars because it allows people to drive one handed and shoot pedestrians out the window. Originally by: Schani Kratnorr You either get EVE, or you dont. Oh I get EVE alright. I just don't get the reasoning behind some design decisions. AoC has been a relief in terms of rational positive changes. For example, they just cut the cast time in half on all of the buffs for the demonologist an increased the duration of one by 1200% because it was so tedious. No one was even complaining about it really, it hadn't gotten that bad or been around that long yet. But look at EVE. Five years in, and we JUST got an align-to button. And drone hotkeys. Still no skill queue, and the interface feels like I'm playing a spreadsheet without the convenience of toolbars. Originally by: Schani Kratnorr I am ambivalent about the cue-question. LEarning towards "no", but listening to the "yes"-argument. It blows my mind that you can misspell queue while quoting it.
Xaen Caritas.	Posted - 2008.06.20 19:49:00 - [65] I can has answer plaz? The only semi rational argument I've heard (keeping it hard for farmers) isn't and doesn't. If I can't have a skill queue, can I at least know why? - Support fixing the UI\|Suggest Jita fixes\|Compact logs
Marcus Gideon	Posted - 2008.06.20 20:49:00 - [66] While we all know the pages aren't updated EVER... There is mention in the Drawingboard page about queues. WAY down at the bottom. They've summed up every idea these threads repeat on a weekly basis. Either a queue with one skill following another. Or a way to train 2 skills at once, with reduced speed until 1 finishes, then the other will go at full speed. So CCP has at least acknowledged that it's something people want. But they've given no inkling of what or when a change may be.

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