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Jason Edwards
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Posted - 2008.05.18 02:27:00 -
[1]
Before Heavy Interdictors you could have an arazu with a few republic fleet warp disruptors. This gave you enough strength to basically peg and hold down everyone. With a 60km range. Meaning you easily cover a gate. Then have your other gatecampers to have a warp disruptor to cover smaller parts. This was a balanced working system.
Then titans and motherships started sitting in low sec basically immune to ever getting killed. This was imbalanced. Thusly bring the heavy interdictor. A ship capable of warp scrambling the titans and motherships. Creating a balance to that problem.
It broke the blockade running system entirely. It makes blockade running impossible.
If you were to run into a gatecamp before and were a battleship or whatever without warpcore stabs. You got caught and were killed. If you had warpcore stabs you might get away. It was appropriately balanced.
Now however it doesn't matter how many warpcore stabs you have. You get scrambled and you are screwed. No way around it.
That is being overpowered.
Now lets say you leave it this way... do you really think people will leave high sec if this overpowered ship is capable of doing this?
I for one only lost a lame iteron 3 which I used for mission running. I dont care much for the loss... but it may just mean I refuse to go to low sec entirely. Which is in contradiction with the intentions of CCP of getting people out of high sec.
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Jason Edwards
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Posted - 2008.05.18 02:29:00 -
[2]
My suggestion is that it be adjusted correctly such that blockade runners become immune to this ship or introduce a module which can balance this. Oh right those are called warpcore stabs... the things which are absolutely worthless.
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Zivoril
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Posted - 2008.05.18 02:34:00 -
[3]
I'm a noob to Lowsec space. Yet I have realized or figured out 1 VS 1 never and will never EVER EXSIST. It is always pus.ies bunches that will bring you down. So when I read a post like this or any concering Low Sec, I simply PUKE MY PANTS OFF.
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kessah
The Arrow Project
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.05.18 02:36:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Zivoril
I'm a noob to Lowsec space. Yet I have realized or figured out 1 VS 1 never and will never EVER EXSIST. It is always pus.ies bunches that will bring you down. So when I read a post like this or any concering Low Sec, I simply PUKE MY PANTS OFF.
damn... that hurt?
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Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.05.18 02:37:00 -
[5]
Heavy dictors are fine, can't lock a nano blockade runner unless remote sensor boosted in a good gatecamp which should be hard to get away from anyway
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(â;..;)â
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EveJoker
Minmatar
Contraband Inc.
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Posted - 2008.05.18 02:38:00 -
[6]
Being killed by a hictor, or a smartbombing supercap. Atleast you have a good chance to kill a hictor with a small gang.
I know which I prefer.
Perhaps you should adjust your gameplay to not get killed in the firstplace, then it wouldnt be such a big deal.
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Deva Blackfire
D00M.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.05.18 02:39:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Jason Edwards
My suggestion is that it be adjusted correctly such that blockade runners become immune to this ship or introduce a module which can balance this. Oh right those are called warpcore stabs... the things which are absolutely worthless.
Blockade runners are immune to them if you arent noob. cloak+mwd = immunity.
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Tar Ecthelion
The Legion of Spoon
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.18 02:39:00 -
[8]
Originally by: EveJoker
Being killed by a hictor, or a smartbombing supercap. Atleast you have a good chance to kill a hictor with a small gang.
I know which I prefer.
Perhaps you should adjust your gameplay to not get killed in the firstplace, then it wouldnt be such a big deal.
This man speaks some sense
....
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Slave Runner
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Posted - 2008.05.18 02:41:00 -
[9]
New ships and modules are introduced and change the way the game is played. This has happened before, happens right now and will continue to happen in the future.
We can argue about that all day long.
The one flaw the Heavy Interdictor design has, though, is that it should have a passive scan resolution penalty (passive = penalty applies as soon as the module is fitted, even when offline, like Expanded Cargoholds nowadays).
It doesn't conflict with their role as mobile bubbles, as those don't require locks.
It doesn't conflict with their role as supercapital tacklers as these have huge signature radiuses anyway.
It does however make it a bit tricky to use the HIC as a fastlock on smallish targets, not impossible though. A decently adjusted gang still accomplish that, which is fine.
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Face Lifter
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Posted - 2008.05.18 02:53:00 -
[10]
I don't understand people who say "blockade running is impossible"
All the transport ships can fit 10mn MWD and cloak. That means near-invulnerability to enemy locks, which means near complete safety in all of empire. In 0.0 they only fear warping into bubbles, but for that they need to use scouts.
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Jason Edwards
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Posted - 2008.05.18 02:59:00 -
[11]
Quote:
Heavy dictors are fine, can't lock a nano blockade runner unless remote sensor boosted in a good gatecamp which should be hard to get away from anyway
nano blockade runner is kind of counter productive plus a good gatecamp will have no problem catching people with warpcore stabs and such. The problem is the imbalance that allows heavy interdictors to make even bad gatecamps easily catch EVERYONE. That's some serious power.
Quote:
Being killed by a hictor, or a smartbombing supercap.
This is a false dilemma fallacy.
It isn't either or. Some factor to balance this such that hictors are used for their purpose in low sec... That is entirely anti-supercap. Not omniwarpdisrupting.
Quote:
Atleast you have a good chance to kill a hictor with a small gang.
This is where the problem comes. You now have to bring a gang to actually do solo activities. BECAUSE something is overpowered. You start bringing gangs and they become bigger pirate gangs. It's not a winnable thing because of imbalance.
Quote:
Perhaps you should adjust your gameplay to not get killed in the firstplace, then it wouldnt be such a big deal.
Lets say my stealth bomber was overpowered. I could sit 110km off the gate and immune to the low sec guns. Not only that... the alpha strike instantly kills everything. There's no defense agaisnt it. EXCEPT having lots of friends to come blob the area and stop the stealth bomber....
Would the overpowered stealth bomber be some sort of thing that needs to be balanced? Or do you just need to adjust the gameplay so you dont get killed in the firstplace?
Hell we can remove the hictors completely and say just adjust your gameplay because of the supercaps.
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Mira O'karr
Minmatar
Templars of Space
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Posted - 2008.05.18 03:07:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Face Lifter
I don't understand people who say "blockade running is impossible"
All the transport ships can fit 10mn MWD and cloak. That means near-invulnerability to enemy locks, which means near complete safety in all of empire. In 0.0 they only fear warping into bubbles, but for that they need to use scouts.
this.
also.. OP should stay in high sec and stop whining.
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Jason Edwards
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Posted - 2008.05.18 03:08:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Originally by: Jason Edwards
My suggestion is that it be adjusted correctly such that blockade runners become immune to this ship or introduce a module which can balance this. Oh right those are called warpcore stabs... the things which are absolutely worthless.
Blockade runners are immune to them if you arent noob. cloak+mwd = immunity.
Blockade runners can run cloak and mwd at the same time? Or blockade runners can use cov-op cloak?
Perhaps we should introduce the new ship with a cov-op cloak but also a transport ship?
Quote:
The one flaw the Heavy Interdictor design has, though, is that it should have a passive scan resolution penalty (passive = penalty applies as soon as the module is fitted, even when offline, like Expanded Cargoholds nowadays).
It doesn't conflict with their role as mobile bubbles, as those don't require locks.
It doesn't conflict with their role as supercapital tacklers as these have huge signature radiuses anyway.
It does however make it a bit tricky to use the HIC as a fastlock on smallish targets, not impossible though. A decently adjusted gang still accomplish that, which is fine.
Another great option.
As I said the purpose of the hictor in low sec should be nearly worthless in low sec. With the exception of its use against supercaps. That is it's role. 0.0 is different obviously. Just like an interdictor in lowsec.
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Batolemaeus
Caldari
Batolemaeus Corp
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Posted - 2008.05.18 03:08:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Batolemaeus on 18/05/2008 03:08:35
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Blockade runners are immune to them if you arent noob. cloak+mwd = immunity.
As someone who flies blockaderunners himself, i can say: The man speaks the truth.
You don't even need your cloak in lowsec anyways. You ARE immune even to sensorboosted ships. The only thing that ever got a lock on me was a stiletto trying to hold me long enough for the hictor to lock me down. He instapopped by gateguns and i warped away...
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Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2008.05.18 03:14:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Tsanse Kinske on 18/05/2008 03:16:48
Originally by: Jason Edwards
nano blockade runner is kind of counter productive
Counter productive to your argument, you mean. Nanofitting, MWDs, and cloaks are the I Win buttons for BRs.
And this is coming from somebody who also thinks Heavy Dictors are overpowered, just not for most of the reasons you're giving.
edit:
Quote:
Blockade runners can run cloak and mwd at the same time? Or blockade runners can use cov-op cloak?
You are going to feel very silly in a minute or two. 
* * *
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
Fredior Khan'Sebies
Minmatar
Mikramurka Solace
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Posted - 2008.05.18 03:20:00 -
[16]
Someone who has a t2 ship or a gatecamp of t2 ships properly equipped and with skilled pilots should be able to make getting out damn near impossible for a single t1 ship. Or even a single t2 ship, especially if it is not fitted for the situation. Else, what is the point in spending all that time training those skills to level 5 and shelling out all that ISK for t2 combat ships?
I think the issue is that there are people who believe that they should be invulnerable to ANYTHING, because it infringes on their solo playstyle.
Reminds me of what a friend of mine told me a couple years ago about Eve: You can do anything you want, but you can't do everything. You can be free as a bird but that shuts you out of certain content. You can go for the endgame stuff but have to put up with rules and inconvenience to get there. You have to prioritize what you want to get out of the game.
That's not an exact quote of course, this was a couple years ago and it's not like I actually wrote it down. But I think that the false impression is that anyone is entitled to do everything regardless of playstyle. And that simply isn't the case in Eve. Every path you decide to go down, you decide against going down a different path for now. You sacrifice the opportunity to do one thing to be able to do another. Later on you can backtrack of course. But if you are committed to a single playstyle, there are elements you will simply never experience, regardless of the playstyle to which you limit yourself.
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Avoheja
Caldari
The Venture Co.
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Posted - 2008.05.18 03:21:00 -
[17]
Die in a fire.
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Nikla Uthaan
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Posted - 2008.05.18 03:49:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Nikla Uthaan on 18/05/2008 03:49:50
Quote:
All the transport ships can fit 10mn MWD and cloak.
*cough*
All transports *except* the caldari one can fit a 10mn MWD and cloak *without* powergrid mods. Crane needs *at least* one more PG, as full skills give it only 150 PG.
All transports except the caldari one, with the use of a PG module/implant, can fit a 10MN MWD II *and* nano mods.
But anyways, (end rant about broken caldari transport ship)
HIC is not overpowered. It *has* however perma-broken warp core stabs. I'd only fit WCS when transporting through hi sec now 
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Jack Gilligan
Caldari
Dragon's Rage
Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2008.05.18 05:19:00 -
[19]
I could see making certain ships immune to bubbles but NOT immune to regular 1 on 1 tackling such as regular scrams and webifiers.
Why not? Say that bubbles are concentrated on caps, battleships, etc.
My opinions are my own and do not reflect those of my corporation or alliance. |
Ki Tarra
Caldari
Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2008.05.18 05:30:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Jason Edwards
Quote:
Atleast you have a good chance to kill a hictor with a small gang.
This is where the problem comes. You now have to bring a gang to actually do solo activities. BECAUSE something is overpowered. You start bringing gangs and they become bigger pirate gangs. It's not a winnable thing because of imbalance.
What solo activity are you claiming requires a gang?
Beating another gang is not a solo activity.
Solo game play does not mean invulnerablity from groups.
You should not be able to win in every situation because there needs to be a situation in which you can lose.
It should not be possible to run all blockades solo, even with the ideal setup.
If it were possible to run all blockades solo, then blockade running would be imbalanced.
The tactics needed for running most blockades have been explained.
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Hannobaal
Gallente
Shadow Forces Inc.
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Posted - 2008.05.18 05:56:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Hannobaal on 18/05/2008 06:00:55
Originally by: Jason Edwards
Blockade runners can run cloak and mwd at the same time?
Yes, you can use mwd and cloak at the same time if you turn on the mwd first (or within like a second after turning on the cloak), but only for a single cycle on the mwd after which it turns off on its on.
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Jurgen Cartis
Caldari
Interstellar Corporation of Exploration
Nex Eternus
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Posted - 2008.05.18 05:58:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny
Heavy dictors are fine, can't lock a nano blockade runner unless remote sensor boosted in a good gatecamp which should be hard to get away from anyway
I can't believe it, but I agree with Surfin.
Transports could use a bit of looking at (no point training past level 1, which is unique among all ship types), but that has nothing to do with Hictors.
--------------------
ICE Blueprint Sales
FIRST!! -Yipsilanti
Pfft. Never such a thing as a "last chance". ;) -Rauth |
Jason Edwards
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Posted - 2008.05.18 06:03:00 -
[23]
Quote:
HIC is not overpowered. It *has* however perma-broken warp core stabs. I'd only fit WCS when transporting through hi sec now
It is overpowered because of that point alone.
Quote:
I could see making certain ships immune to bubbles but NOT immune to regular 1 on 1 tackling such as regular scrams and webifiers.
Certainly not. The point of bubbles is that they are so effective. The reason they arent allowed in empire is a point. The omniwebber is nuts. The industrials and such should be immune to it. Thusly bringing WCS to being able to do something.
Again the blockade runners will still be completely stoppable by proper gangs. As I said an arazu with some sensor boosters would lock onto the ship in seconds easily. Planting many points on the target. Defeating warpcore stabs.
Quote:
What solo activity are you claiming requires a gang?
I'm not. I was responding to the other person. Who says you need a gang to be allowed to transport around 7000m3 of construction blocks. The ones which arent even sellable to the market. Infact this would in a sense be called GRIEFING in a sense as they are doing something which costs them and they gain no profit from.
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Hannobaal
Gallente
Shadow Forces Inc.
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Posted - 2008.05.18 06:29:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Hannobaal on 18/05/2008 06:33:28
You're blowing things out of proportion.
In the entire time since heavy interdictors came along, I've only seen them in low sec gate camping twice.
The first time was as part of a big camp, and I made it through easily since I was in an Arazu.
And the second time it was a lone Phobos, and I was able to align and warp out in a Drake (with regular pvp fittings, not fitted for travel in any way) before he could lock me.
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Batolemaeus
Caldari
Batolemaeus Corp
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Posted - 2008.05.18 06:29:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Jason Edwards
Again the blockade runners will still be completely stoppable by proper gangs. As I said an arazu with some sensor boosters would lock onto the ship in seconds easily. Planting many points on the target. Defeating warpcore stabs.
You will have to lock in under one second AND activate the scrams after you decloaked me / i decided to decloak and warp. Good luck with that.
(No need to try it, it is impossible if the blockaderunner has his lows filled with inertias. I have received hatemail because i went through the same camp in lowsec several times a day and they never got a lock on me..later on even trying to smartbomb be while i was warping to gate..)
They way Blockaderunners are today, they are completely unstoppable in lowsec. That is okay, imo, as that's their purpose, and it still requires skill to be untouchable.
If anything, hictors could need a slight nerf of their sensorstrength, but it doesn't affect blockaderunners in any way.
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N.
Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.05.18 07:07:00 -
[26]
"It broke the blockade running system entirely. It makes blockade running impossible."
No, it didn't.
To put it bluntly: learn to fly your ship. Blockade runners, properly fitted and flown, have little to fear from HICs.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Ki An
Gallente
Filiolus Of Bellum
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Posted - 2008.05.18 07:18:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Jason Edwards
Quote:
What solo activity are you claiming requires a gang?
I'm not. I was responding to the other person. Who says you need a gang to be allowed to transport around 7000m3 of construction blocks. The ones which arent even sellable to the market. Infact this would in a sense be called GRIEFING in a sense as they are doing something which costs them and they gain no profit from.
This, right here, is probably the stupidest and most contrived attempt at an argument I've seen on the forums this year.
Congratulations, sir. Well done!
Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
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Grimpak
Gallente
Trinity Nova
Trinity Nova Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.18 07:41:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Ki An
Originally by: Jason Edwards
Quote:
What solo activity are you claiming requires a gang?
I'm not. I was responding to the other person. Who says you need a gang to be allowed to transport around 7000m3 of construction blocks. The ones which arent even sellable to the market. Infact this would in a sense be called GRIEFING in a sense as they are doing something which costs them and they gain no profit from.
This, right here, is probably the stupidest and most contrived attempt at an argument I've seen on the forums this year.
Congratulations, sir. Well done!
I have to agree with Ki here.
even if I'm still half asleep and my brain hasn't consumed the required dose of daily caffeine yet, the argument sounds waaaaay to stupid to be real.
so mr. jason, you fitting cargo expanders in yer BR, eh?
---
Trinity Nova Mercenary Services Web Site - Nominated for the 2008 E-ON Magazine Awards |
Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N.
Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.05.18 07:42:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Efdi
Originally by: Jason Edwards
Who says you need a gang to be allowed to transport around 7000m3 of construction blocks.
I found your problem. You're fitting your blockade runner wrong.
That's one of the two things he's doing wrong, yes.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Hannobaal
Gallente
Shadow Forces Inc.
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Posted - 2008.05.18 07:51:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Hannobaal
Edited by: Hannobaal on 18/05/2008 06:33:28
You're blowing things out of proportion.
In the entire time since heavy interdictors came along, I've only seen them in low sec gate camping twice.
The first time was as part of a big camp, and I made it through easily since I was in an Arazu.
And the second time it was a lone Phobos, and I was able to align and warp out in a Drake (with regular pvp fittings, not fitted for travel in any way) before he could lock me.
Not that a lone Phobos under gate-gun fire is going to do much to a PvP-fitted drake anyway.
Yeah, but there were a lot of people in the system, so he would probably have been able to call in help to the gate. So, I just warped. I actually got into warp right as he finished locking, but before he could activate the module.
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