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Timaios
Art of War
Cruel Intentions
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Posted - 2008.05.18 08:03:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Jason Edwards
many words
You seem like a reasonable fellow. I'll answer to point out a few things I think you're missing.
About BR's vs HICs at a lowsec gate. At the moment BR's have a good chance of avoiding the camp if properly fitted (that is, speed mods, mwd and a cloak).
By the way, you align towards your target activate the mwd, activate your cloak and either: a) deactivate the cloak when your mwd deactivates and your speed is above the speed required to instawarp and warp out or b) slowboat 40km off the hictor and warp out. Use a T2 cloak for a smaller speed penalty. You need to practice this, however.
The HIC has a decent chance of uncloaking the BR in case it hangs around. Sounds pretty balanced to me. Both parties need to fit correctly in order to catch each other: BR needs speed and agility, HIC needs scan resolution.
With warp core stabs the situation is very silly: either you get out or you don't and that is determined the second the target warps to the gate. There's no middle ground and attempts to any fancy maneuvers or fit the ship in any other way are just worthless. With a HIC and a BR there's at least struggle to avoid being locked.
To me, your argument sounds like that you wanted to fly safely through the gate in a fit of your choosing carrying as much as you want whenever it is convenient for you. This may not be what you meant but it's how you came across.
The struggle between a HIC and a BR is a struggle between a predator and a prey. Sometimes it's better for the prey not to move at all because the predator is watching. You can scout the system in a shuttle and if there is a HIC, just come back later and go past the gate if you don't want to risk getting caught.
(Yes, I fly both BR's and HICs and go through lowsec gates.)
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Kerfira
University of Caille
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Posted - 2008.05.18 08:04:00 -
[32]
Restrict the focused script to only work on capitals. Low-sec will be back working as it always have, and capitals will still be at risk if trying to gate-camp in low-sec.
Problem solved....
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente
Death of Virtue
Sex Panthers
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Posted - 2008.05.18 08:09:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Jason Edwards
Before Heavy Interdictors you could have an arazu with a few republic fleet warp disruptors. This gave you enough strength to basically peg and hold down everyone. With a 60km range. Meaning you easily cover a gate. Then have your other gatecampers to have a warp disruptor to cover smaller parts. This was a balanced working system.
Then titans and motherships started sitting in low sec basically immune to ever getting killed. This was imbalanced. Thusly bring the heavy interdictor. A ship capable of warp scrambling the titans and motherships. Creating a balance to that problem.
It broke the blockade running system entirely. It makes blockade running impossible.
If you were to run into a gatecamp before and were a battleship or whatever without warpcore stabs. You got caught and were killed. If you had warpcore stabs you might get away. It was appropriately balanced.
Now however it doesn't matter how many warpcore stabs you have. You get scrambled and you are screwed. No way around it.
That is being overpowered.
Now lets say you leave it this way... do you really think people will leave high sec if this overpowered ship is capable of doing this?
I for one only lost a lame iteron 3 which I used for mission running. I dont care much for the loss... but it may just mean I refuse to go to low sec entirely. Which is in contradiction with the intentions of CCP of getting people out of high sec.
WoW is that way --->
Bellum Eternus
[Vid] L E G E N D A R Y
Owing to lack of Eve-related content, signature removed. If you would like to discuss this, please mail [email protected] - Mitnal |
Mr Friendly
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Posted - 2008.05.18 08:12:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Jason Edwards
It makes blockade running impossible because I can't fit my ships properly. So I came to the forums to whine about things I know nothing about. In fact, I think I should be able to run any camp any day of the week, regardless of my fit, my ship or anything else. I demand to win. I refuse to think about how to respond to tactics that other people use. In fact, I think I should be able to play my game and everyone else should just screw off... I'm that awesome. Oh, btw... I'm trying to use a t1 industrial to run gatecamps. Yes, I'm complaining that a paper thin ship was caught by another ship designed to do so.
Yes, I'm totally ignoring there are ships designed to surmount exactly the issue I'm whining about. Yes, I'm ignoring the fact I can fit those ships so I'm basically immune to being tackled. No, my ship class isn't broken by the game... in fact, it's all my fault. Ignore me. I'm whining.
Okay. I will.
Originally by: CCP Prism X
Also, posting in a Jenny thread.
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Gypsio III
Bambooule
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Posted - 2008.05.18 08:23:00 -
[35]
Oh dear, another of these stupid threads.
Quote:
To put it bluntly: learn to fly your ship. Blockade runners, properly fitted and flown, have little to fear from HICs.
QFT. Or maybe even nothing to fear. I can just about imagine the lowsec gatecamp necessary to stop my Prowler, but I doubt I'll ever meet it. OP is just incompetent. 
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OffBeaT
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Posted - 2008.05.18 08:41:00 -
[36]
yea, ccp is pritty much setting us up too get ganked too easy just too keep others happy.. i am getting sick of it..
cant wait for the new fw upgrade so i dont have too bother with 00 systems anymore if i can..
we all still need to rat though. 
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sg3s
Caldari
O.W.N. Corp
United Freemen Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.18 09:27:00 -
[37]
I read someone said you could kill a HIC with 'a few friends'.
Well I'm just gonna let you know that either the onyx or the broadsword can yield a staggering passive tank (their guns also don't use cap therefor it is possible)...
With a bubble it is less strong, scripted it doesn't matter much... when going totally passive one of those can tank a carrier with 15 fighters out, with a pilot that has top skills.
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Granmethedon III
The Wild Hunt
Pure.
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Posted - 2008.05.18 09:31:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Granmethedon III on 18/05/2008 09:30:58
Yes a HIC can tank all day if fitted right; but it does pathetic dps. Don't get me wrong, they're great ships, and I like flying them; but their dps is WAY too low to consider them overpowered, in my opinion.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Your optimism is an inspiration to us all... 
I think I just trolled against my own company though... 
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
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Posted - 2008.05.18 09:40:00 -
[39]
Blockade Runners are fast, agile and warp at 9au/sec.
EXCEPT THE CRANE they can all fit a MWD, and a cloak.
Yes, they get tackled by heavy interdictors. But y'know, they're also faster and more agile than heavy interdictors. Even if they're sensorboosting and you're close, you can burn away from them, and you have enough resists and effective hitpoints to soak up the few volleys from them.
This is, of course, assuming you haven't made it into warp before they've locked you, which is a very definite possibility.
Functioning as designed.
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Crane needs more grid
249km locking? |
sg3s
Caldari
O.W.N. Corp
United Freemen Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.18 09:43:00 -
[40]
Their power is not doing DPS it's scrambling targets, it's the same in 0.0, but it's less of a problem there becouse people are already used to the danger of bubbles...
If you want to sensor boost your HIC it will definitly hurt the tank, so thats one... Then when you want one to do damage, it's gonna hurt the tank again... so thats two...
They are not intended as solo ships, although they can be dangerous solo, but then they will certainly have a smaller tank...
I think HICs, or atleast the onyx and broadsword, can still be a danger to nano ships though... They can tank a whole bunch of them the whole day while it waits for one of them to make a mistake...
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Cpt Cosmic
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Posted - 2008.05.18 10:13:00 -
[41]
too many lazy guys out there that want to have easy gate camps, ironically those are also the biggest forum trolls lazy town is this way ->
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Ki An
Gallente
Filiolus Of Bellum
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Posted - 2008.05.18 10:25:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Cpt Cosmic
too many lazy guys out there that want to have easy gate camps, ironically those are also the biggest forum trolls lazy town is this way ->
You need to work on your burns, 'cause that was just pathetic.
Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
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Roy Batty68
Caldari
Immortal Dead
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Posted - 2008.05.18 10:37:00 -
[43]
Bah. Disappointing. 
I thought this was going to be a Boost Gallente Recons thread. You were almost there, OP. But then you turned left and ran smack into the cloak/mwd wall. Should of turned right and said:
- CCP slaps the bejesus out of damps.
- CCP gives us the hictor which runs a bit roughshod over the other half of the arazu and lachesis roles.
Oh well. Better luck next time, OP. 
Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Ralara
Caldari
D00M.
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Posted - 2008.05.18 10:42:00 -
[44]
From where do people get the idea that Blockade Runners are meant to be immune to being warp scrambled?
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000Hunter000
Gallente
Missiles 'R' Us
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Posted - 2008.05.18 10:48:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Jason Edwards
My suggestion is that it be adjusted correctly such that blockade runners become immune to this ship or introduce a module which can balance this. Oh right those are called warpcore stabs... the things which are absolutely worthless.
I think is a great suggestion and something that puzzeled me when ccp introduced the HIC, i think they should make the blockaderunners immune to it (i don't think making 1 ship out of the bunch imune to the one thing that can shut down all the others completey that much to ask, and the blockaderunner isn't big enough to be hauling huge cargo anyways (and it should still be vulnerable to the usuall scrambling techniques)
_______________________________________________________
CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!!
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Yakia TovilToba
Halliburton Inc.
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Posted - 2008.05.18 11:05:00 -
[46]
I totally agree that they are overpowered, expecially after trying to kill some. Stabs won't help, ew won't help, they can catch multiple targets and have a heavy tank, very hard to bring down.
But thats nothing CCP didn't know, it's not like a new trend, such as the excessive nano-use on phoons, that CCP didn't see coming, so i guess this overpowerness was intended and it won't be removed again.
The only thing you can do if this frustrates you, is to train and use them yourself. Become part of the problem, but don't be on the side of the victim.
It's much more effective to make 20 other guys complain about it by excessive use of that feature, instead of complaining yourself.
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Auron Shadowbane
Pelennor Swarm
Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.18 11:17:00 -
[47]
well I see the OP's problem but I dont see it in HICs but in the blockade runners.
the one thing that makes them good against old-school camps is 100% useless against the new hactors.
the chances the blockade runner has is to warp away before beeing locked (which is possible but other ships can better; frigs and so on) or use mwd+cloak which appears a bit like exploit.
tbh I think they should rework blockade runners. nerf mwd+cloak (for everyone. simply dissallow cloak activation as long as a mwd is running and you are above 100% max speed; much like cynos). at same time give them a new ability to ignore all bubble effects as well as count the hactors infipoint as 1 point. now you ahve a ship that can do its job everywhere (in 0.0 as well as in lowsec cause it flies right trough bubbles) but still can be caught be a group with enough inties or some dedicated taklers (multiple points, remote sensor bosoter, what not).
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NeoTheo
Dark Materials
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Posted - 2008.05.18 11:18:00 -
[48]
HIC's are slow when using the focus script, if your using a proper bloackadge runner you have 2 options (And both work, i know i fly one, the amarr one to be exact).
1. fit a mwd, go thru gate, MWD off it as fast as you can go (with your speed fit), and then warp off, HIC WILL NOT catch you.
2. fit a cloak and no mwd, this reduces sig there for incrases lock time, go thru gate, allign re cloak (in 1 slick move) then hit max velocity and get out of dodge with a warp.
personally i preferr the first option, my speed fit blockade runner works fine with it.
/Theo.
Neotheo
Dark Materials
Linkage
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Zaerlorth Maelkor
The Maverick Navy
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.05.18 11:24:00 -
[49]
Disclaimer: I couldn't dream of fitting a BR for anything else than insta-warping, cloaking and speed.
Something worth considering: Is it alright that the Hictor FORCES this fit onto all blockaderunners?
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I should really get a sig. |
Jones Maloy
Minmatar
Unified Naval Command
Terran Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.18 11:26:00 -
[50]
you guys don't get it, do you? he made a near perfect post staying on topic and using facts to form a theory about why hic's are overpowered. if you see a better explanation of what this is then share it.
.
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........
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idea: focused warp disruption script has 1 point of jamming power and is the only module that can bypass the mothership and titan imunity from warp disruptors. moms and titans can still fit wcs to reduce the warp disruption of this. remove limitations on how many warp bubble thingy's can be fit on a hic and rebalance module and ship stats accordingly. 5 dollars says someone doesn't read the whole post before flaming.
A) gives ability to warp jam ships immune from electronic warfare
B) gives blockade runners thier role back
C) gives wcs their role back
D) does not interfere with any other aspects of the game
= best solution i have heard of so far
Unofficial Official Jita Fubar Thread |
NeoTheo
Dark Materials
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Posted - 2008.05.18 11:55:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Zaerlorth Maelkor
Disclaimer: I couldn't dream of fitting a BR for anything else than insta-warping, cloaking and speed.
Something worth considering: Is it alright that the Hictor FORCES this fit onto all blockaderunners?
yes, this is the ships roll, its like complaining that you have to fit lasers on a geddon.
Neotheo
Dark Materials
Linkage
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posteroid
im right your wrong
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Posted - 2008.05.18 11:58:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Jason Edwards
I for one only lost a lame iteron 3 which I used for mission running. I dont care much for the loss... but it may just mean I refuse to go to low sec entirely. Which is in contradiction with the intentions of CCP of getting people out of high sec.
So you lost a ship in low sec cos you did not have a scout or proper defense but its ccp's fault and the game thats broken???.
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Morcam
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Posted - 2008.05.18 11:59:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Originally by: Jason Edwards
Before Heavy Interdictors you could have an arazu with a few republic fleet warp disruptors. This gave you enough strength to basically peg and hold down everyone. With a 60km range. Meaning you easily cover a gate. Then have your other gatecampers to have a warp disruptor to cover smaller parts. This was a balanced working system.
Then titans and motherships started sitting in low sec basically immune to ever getting killed. This was imbalanced. Thusly bring the heavy interdictor. A ship capable of warp scrambling the titans and motherships. Creating a balance to that problem.
It broke the blockade running system entirely. It makes blockade running impossible.
If you were to run into a gatecamp before and were a battleship or whatever without warpcore stabs. You got caught and were killed. If you had warpcore stabs you might get away. It was appropriately balanced.
Now however it doesn't matter how many warpcore stabs you have. You get scrambled and you are screwed. No way around it.
That is being overpowered.
Now lets say you leave it this way... do you really think people will leave high sec if this overpowered ship is capable of doing this?
I for one only lost a lame iteron 3 which I used for mission running. I dont care much for the loss... but it may just mean I refuse to go to low sec entirely. Which is in contradiction with the intentions of CCP of getting people out of high sec.
WoW is that way --->
<--- Balance is that way
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Jaggeh
Thundercats
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.18 12:08:00 -
[54]
/me hugs his phobos
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Ralara
Caldari
D00M.
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Posted - 2008.05.18 12:29:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Yakia TovilToba
ew won't help
um?
Jam it and it can't lock you? 
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Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2008.05.18 12:43:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Ralara
Originally by: Yakia TovilToba
ew won't help
um?
Jam it and it can't lock you?
I would find it hard to believe even you took yourself seriously with that post. Because what will you jam it with? The multispec that you gave up the valuable tank slot for (since your lows are filled with stabs/speed mods) on your un-ecm-bonused ship? Good luck getting a jam at all. And what ship bigger than a frigate will lock the sensor boosted HIC first? If you fit for lock speed you almost completely eliminate tankability... which, with the sentry guns firing on you that's not really a viable option anyway. Then there's the security hit if the HIC pilot isn't -5.0...
But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.
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RuleoftheBone
Minmatar
Ataraxia.
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Posted - 2008.05.18 13:13:00 -
[57]
HIC's are fine.
Remarkably boring to fly....but fine.
Easily avoided, ignored, neuted, jammed, popped (ok...this takes some time).
In fact....silly people like to fly them solo under sentries. Find one on gate under aggro...pin/web/jam/neut/whatever and let the sentries do the work.
I fly daily all over losec and see maybe 1-2...if that.
Like much else in EvE....exaggeration to compensate for failure prompts these sorts of posts .
"Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way"
General George Patton USA
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Kolwrath
Amarr
Imperial Shipment
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Posted - 2008.05.18 13:38:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Kolwrath on 18/05/2008 13:40:29
Originally by: RuleoftheBone
HIC's are fine.
No they are not. As an earlier poster already stated :
Originally by: Jason Edwards
Quote:
HIC is not overpowered. It *has* however perma-broken warp core stabs. I'd only fit WCS when transporting through hi sec now
It is overpowered because of that point alone.
There is no reason to fit a WCS anymore. HICs have made the module pointless.
This has also made the Blockade runners +2 stab bonus completly irrelevant.
Originally by: Chaos Space Marines
Do you hear the voices, too?!?!
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
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Posted - 2008.05.18 13:59:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Kolwrath
Edited by: Kolwrath on 18/05/2008 13:40:29
Originally by: RuleoftheBone
HIC's are fine.
No they are not. As an earlier poster already stated :
Originally by: Jason Edwards
Quote:
HIC is not overpowered. It *has* however perma-broken warp core stabs. I'd only fit WCS when transporting through hi sec now
It is overpowered because of that point alone.
There is no reason to fit a WCS anymore. HICs have made the module pointless.
This has also made the Blockade runners +2 stab bonus completly irrelevant.
Erm, apart from against every other ship in the game, which is fitting a conventional warp disruptor you mean?
But yeah, as paper I have to agree, that scissors is just overpowered.
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Crane needs more grid
249km locking? |
RuleoftheBone
Minmatar
Ataraxia.
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Posted - 2008.05.18 14:02:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Kolwrath
Blah blah blah
Frankly I have not undocked my Broadsword in ages. It's boring and useless solo (except for apparently creating silly threads like this).
And this:
"There is no reason to fit a WCS anymore. HICs have made the module pointless."
=Good riddance and about time. You can have your WCS back when combat ships can no longer fit them  .
p.s. I can't remember the last time I attacked a hauler. And I probably did it in a Vagabond...another ship I have no doubt you cordially detest .
"Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way"
General George Patton USA
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