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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.05.18 19:34:00 -
[61]
Most of you seem to bash LaVista Vista for something he allegedly said.
Well, while his wording might have not been the most fortunate one, he has a point.
THIS ONE is worded in a way most of you seemed to at least mildly agree with.
It's the same thing, really...
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CSM candidates - quick reference cards (NEW: spreadsheet)
Or just vote for LaVista Vista or Leandro Salazar like I did.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.05.18 19:48:00 -
[62]
Edited by: MotherMoon on 18/05/2008 19:49:40
 Originally by: Cailais
LaVista,
When youre new to something which is composed of many inter-related elements, and is large in scale its a 'complex' thing. As you become accustomed to, and understand each individual element and there relationship to other elements that thing is no long complex to you.
So, for long term players EVE is less complex: but try explaining it to a new comer! This is something of a quandry for CCP. If they add increasingly complex elements to EVE to satisfy the long term players they run the risk of shutting out the game to the new comer.
EVE isnt dumbing down - you simply understand it better through experience.
C.
exactly, glad someone agrees with me :)
also just because something is now "easy" for you because you've learned it in no way makes it less complex, it just makes your smarter :)
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SiJira
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Posted - 2008.05.18 19:50:00 -
[63]
if you make it more complex wont more newbs crai and gb2wow ?
Trashed sig, Shark was here |
Shadow Joy
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Posted - 2008.05.18 19:50:00 -
[64]
Ever consider the fact that the underlying reason for simplification may be performance?
The complexity of EVE comes at a cost. The number of transactions that go on at all levels of the application are massive, especially compared to other MMOs. As the number of subscriptions has grown, in my opinion, certain scaling problems have approached critical levels.
Since not adding new content is a quick way to doom the game to stagnation, making that new content as simple as possible is one way to make sure the servers do not collapse under their own weight.
Old content that is reworked might be made simpler for a similar reason.
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LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
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Posted - 2008.05.18 19:53:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Shadow Joy
Ever consider the fact that the underlying reason for simplification may be performance?
The complexity of EVE comes at a cost. The number of transactions that go on at all levels of the application are massive, especially compared to other MMOs. As the number of subscriptions has grown, in my opinion, certain scaling problems have approached critical levels.
Since not adding new content is a quick way to doom the game to stagnation, making that new content as simple as possible is one way to make sure the servers do not collapse under their own weight.
Old content that is reworked might be made simpler for a similar reason.
You make an excellent point.
But I really don't think majority of the things that was pointed out, is a matter of server performance. It seems to me to be merely to decrease the barrier to entry.
But of course, I would love to be corrected. 
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.05.18 19:53:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Shadow Joy
Old content that is reworked might be made simpler for a similar reason.
are they reworking any old content to be more simple?
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Jecob
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Posted - 2008.05.18 20:08:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Shadow Joy
Originally by: SiJira
...
if we will be able to die while docked itll be harsh enough
I'm hoping that's a feature of ambulation.
I'm hoping this is a feature of Ambulation. Tea Bagging
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Katini Ellegahn
Gallente
Capital Development and Security Industries
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Posted - 2008.05.18 20:34:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Amastat
...even a originally well thought out thread quickly fills up with idiots and it all goes downhill real quick...
+1 for Irony
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.05.18 21:56:00 -
[69]
AH HA
so your a warp to zero shouldn't of been done kind of mind set!
OK now I understand, personnaly when it comes to things like that if they find a way to get rid of instas or whatever the thing is they should keep it the way it is and just add more options.
I really hope that one day eve has gates that don't just go to the next system but system highways that link important stations and planets.
That way if bookmarks could be fixed or something then wooosh, warp to 15km is back and yet we can still move around faster.
I don't' know though I think it works as it is now but at least I understand your mind set, the game is getting easier in little ways.
At least they didn't give in and keep heat requirements high.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.05.18 21:57:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Shadow Joy
Originally by: MotherMoon
...
are they reworking any old content to be more simple?
Scan probes immediately jumps into mind.
One could also make a case that warp to zero makes things a lot more simple, as players do not have to have massive libraries of bookmarks anymore.
How about when they consolidated loyalty points so they apply to corporations instead of individual agents?
The mission changes that replaced trade good rewards with cash?
As to whether CCP is currently reworking anything, I am not in a position to know.
understood guys, I guess I was looking into the future not the past :)
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Pan Crastus
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.05.18 22:17:00 -
[71]
CCP has more pressing matters to take care of other than making EVE a mainstream WoW-like game... EVE has a nice niche now, but bugs/lag/slow development are hurting it and making it WoW-like isn't the remedy.
EVE Online: a cold, cruel world where (RL-)rich people replace their losses with GTCs sold to poor students who need to farm ISK to afford their play time ...
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Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.05.18 23:04:00 -
[72]
All the people who voted for you and now changed their minds are making me laugh. Those people believed the lying BS that LaVista Vista put out instead of reading his posts before CSM. LaVista Vista has been this whining "what about industrial people?" carebear for as long as I know.
CCP has not been blatantly ignoring the industrial side of EVE. Can you say invention? Can you say fuel rods? Can you say jump freighters/Rorqual/Orca? Level 5 missions? Contracts, rigs, salvaging, market improvements, new ships/bpos, combat boosters, exploration, LP store.
All that is blantantly ignoring the industrial side of eve? All of these things used to be complex but then are somehow not complex anymore?  Or is it that other players (new players, hooray for new players) got into these new markets and gave you competition and you want to be top dog just because you have been playing longer?
Please, LaVista Vista, why don't YOU go back to WoW.
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Makhan
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Posted - 2008.05.18 23:13:00 -
[73]
Edited by: Makhan on 18/05/2008 23:14:10
Originally by: Vaal Erit
CCP has not been blatantly ignoring the industrial side of EVE. Can you say invention?
The invention process is nice but it still has serious flaws.
Quote:
Can you say fuel rods?
Not accessible to empire dwellers.
Quote:
Orca?
Not even out with the chance of it ever coming out shrinking daily.
Quote:
Level 5 missions?
How the HELL is this industry?
Quote:
Contracts
that's not industry for the most part, that's people selling their rare-non marketable loot
Quote:
, rigs, salvaging,
These are more mission runner things than industry.
Quote:
market improvements,
What market improvements? The last one was the "remember settings" button, but that just saved a click.
Quote:
new ships/bpos,
How does this change industry? It doesn't, the process is still the same.
Quote:
combat boosters,
Nobody uses them
Quote:
exploration, LP store.
You're really reaching if you call any of this industry.
You need a better definition of industry if you think any of this is benefiting the common manufacturer.
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Joe Starbreaker
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Posted - 2008.05.18 23:15:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Vaal Erit
fuel rods
What?
Originally by: Vaal Erit
Orca
What?
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[insert signature here] |
Erotic Irony
0bsession
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Posted - 2008.05.18 23:19:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Joe Starbreaker
Originally by: Vaal Erit
fuel rods
What?
Originally by: Vaal Erit
Orca
What?
By fuel rods, he probably meant this.
Orca is supposed to be empire version of the rorqual, de-fanged of the jump drive and smaller presumably.
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Eve Players are not very smart.
Support Killmail Overhaul
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Killer Kelly
Caldari
Allied Tactical Unit
Scalar Federation
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Posted - 2008.05.18 23:26:00 -
[76]
It might be WoW gameplay if you never leave high-sec but it sure as hell is interesting in Pure Blind. We have political conflicts daily out here. Just the other day we had a standoff with an ex-MC corporation in a non-soveriegn system. This is not WoW and is not going to be. In WoW, you kill everything you see. The industrial and logistical part of 0.0 alliances is immense, even for a small one like mine. We have to channel resources from POS to POS, and jump around caps and rorquals. Mission carebears remind me of WoW but 0.0 residents are definitely a league of their own in any MMORPG community. Only this game can effectively simulate a living, breathing, sovereign entity who must supply themselves with every bit of equipment they need to exist. And how is industry shallow? All ships need materials and industry supplies them. This isn't Guild Wars where you buy the iron bars from the merchant then go to the armor crafter. I am in a Griffin atm, built with a blueprint researched by one corpmate, built with materials mined by several of my corpmates and assembled in a POS run, fueled and protected by my corporation. Industry is by no means shallow.
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I Get Money in the Scalar Federation |
Cpt Fina
Mutually Assured Distraction
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Posted - 2008.05.19 00:00:00 -
[77]
Have been expecting this thread for a while, but concerning FW.
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LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
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Posted - 2008.05.19 03:58:00 -
[78]
Quote:
Can you say invention
Yes. Wanna hear? Invention was long due at the point of implementation.
Quote:
Can you say fuel rods?
Why? They aren't implemented yet.
Quote:
Can you say jump freighters
Point?
Quote:
Rorqual
Mostly useless to the industry, only really works for these people, that peopel call "carebears".
Quote:
Orca?
You just proved my point. Thanks!
Quote:
Level 5 missions?
Nothing to do with industry. But supposedly level 5 missions sux epicly.
Quote:
Contracts
Largely faulty implementation and stupid artificial barriers.
Quote:
rigs
Uhm? Point?
Quote:
salvaging
That isn't industry, that is PvE/PvP
Quote:
market improvements
We got the ability to SAVE preferences and filter things(That is a consumers thing, not industry). It's 5 years late.
Quote:
new ships/bpos
Largely irrelevant, when the game keeps growing. Go and take a look at the secondary market.
Quote:
combat boosters
Only few people use them. Not relevant for industry.
Quote:
exploration
Not relevant for industry.
Quote:
LP store
Not relevant either.
Quote:
All that is blantantly ignoring the industrial side of eve?
You don't think so, no?
Quote:
Or is it that other players got into these new markets and gave you competition and you want to be top dog just because you have been playing longer?
You aren't exactly the first person to comment on that. I would hate a market with no competition. Then there is nobody to play with 
Quote:
Please, LaVista Vista, why don't YOU go back to WoW
Because(As I stated in the first post) I am comfortable here in eve.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.05.19 04:04:00 -
[79]
by the way you should actually check wow out, they have been making it easier and easier , thus wow has in fact becoming more like wow every patch :P
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LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
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Posted - 2008.05.19 04:08:00 -
[80]
Originally by: MotherMoon
by the way you should actually check wow out, they have been making it easier and easier , thus wow has in fact becoming more like wow every patch :P
I haven't touched that since the early closed betas. Though I have seen some of the high-end stuff at a mate of mine.
I should go play it though, according to a stunning amount of people in this thread 
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.05.19 05:01:00 -
[81]
Originally by: LaVista Vista
Originally by: MotherMoon
by the way you should actually check wow out, they have been making it easier and easier , thus wow has in fact becoming more like wow every patch :P
I haven't touched that since the early closed betas. Though I have seen some of the high-end stuff at a mate of mine.
I should go play it though, according to a stunning amount of people in this thread
haha don't do it!
but really they have doubled all EXP gain, they have increase the chance of really epic drops by about 40%, every big patch they just seem to make newer players "like" the game more and more.
My friend was all mad when they made it so that you can gain honor in battleground (think LP but it takes about 3 days to get everything in the store) so that if you lose you still gain honor... while I don't play wow it just seems really... easy... too easy
My friend told me wow is like the Macdonalds of MMOs, and I think he might be right.
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Komen
Gallente
Trinity Nova
Trinity Nova Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.19 05:20:00 -
[82]
I will say, having read two pages of this thread, that I, as a former industrialist, stopped being as much of one as I used to be, and got into PvP. Things quickly picked up, I put more hours into the game, and it looks like I'll be subscribed for a while yet.
I now only participate in industry enough to convert loot and salvage into profitable items, that I do study the market, but casually, not intensively. I still find the industrial side of things fascinating, but not personally stimulating.
Trinity Nova Mercenary Services Web Site - Nominated for the 2008 E-ON Magazine Awards |
LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
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Posted - 2008.05.19 05:33:00 -
[83]
Originally by: MotherMoon
haha don't do it!
Nah, I think closed beta killed enough of my braincells, as it is(Yeah, people are going to pick this very sentence and use it against me. But whatever  )
Quote:
but really they have doubled all EXP gain, they have increase the chance of really epic drops by about 40%, every big patch they just seem to make newer players "like" the game more and more.
My friend was all mad when they made it so that you can gain honor in battleground (think LP but it takes about 3 days to get everything in the store) so that if you lose you still gain honor... while I don't play wow it just seems really... easy... too easy
My friend told me wow is like the Macdonalds of MMOs, and I think he might be right
Yeah, that sound like the average prejudice, which people have towards WoW and the concepts they run their business on.
Not to say it's incorrect, as I'm sure you are speaking the truth.
But the point I make isn't just that CCP are making the game more available to people(AGAIN, it's not inheriently bad, it just sux for veterans). But as the game grows, what used to be high barriers to entry(Battleship BPO's were damn rare back in the days), they are now fairly low barriers.
So it's not just CCP which is decreasing barriers. The course of the game does too. And CCP isn't increasing the "height", which means that people quickly hit the ceiling.
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Lykah Storm
Caldari
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.05.19 05:41:00 -
[84]
Edited by: Lykah Storm on 19/05/2008 05:41:46
Originally by: LaVista Vista
The problem, at least I face, is that the game doesn't really reward smart people.
Err, wtf? This game does nothing but rewards smart people. Stupid ones are the ones paying here and smart ones picks the fruits of actions made by stupid players.
I am just LMAO while you are talking about WoW and smart people in the same thread.
WoW is like running courier missions into ultimate boredom when you finally get to 2487278th level!!
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LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
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Posted - 2008.05.19 05:44:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Lykah Storm
Originally by: LaVista Vista
The problem, at least I face, is that the game doesn't really reward smart people.
Err, wtf? This game does nothing but rewards smart people. Stupid ones are the ones paying here and smart ones picks the fruits of actions made by stupid players.
I am just LMAO while you are talking about WoW and smart people at the same thread.
WoW is like running courier missions into ultimate boredom when you finally get to 2487278th level!!
You didn't read my thread either.
You didn't read Akita T's thread either.
So while I agree that Wow is extremely boring, you make no other valid points.
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Lykah Storm
Caldari
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.05.19 05:44:00 -
[86]
Originally by: LaVista Vista
I haven't touched that since the early closed betas.
So, you are comparing current eve with a game that you haven't even played...
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Lykah Storm
Caldari
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.05.19 05:46:00 -
[87]
Originally by: LaVista Vista
You didn't read my thread either.
I did. And I think you're just marketing Windows Vista.
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LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
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Posted - 2008.05.19 05:48:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Lykah Storm
Originally by: LaVista Vista
I haven't touched that since the early closed betas.
So, you are comparing current eve with a game that you haven't even played...
I'm sorry?
Are you now to judge if I have played a game or not, when I have actually stated clearly, that I HAVE played it?
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Gunner Dark
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Posted - 2008.05.19 05:55:00 -
[89]
Isk printing used to be a game for a small % but not the playing field is level . /sad panda
/thread
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Amastat
Caldari
Omegatech
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Posted - 2008.05.19 05:56:00 -
[90]
Almost on page 5
____________________
"All warfare is based on deception... we must seem unable...seem inactive...and crush him " - Sun Tzu |
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