EVE Search - gb2wow

Check My IP Information

All Channels

EVE General Discussion

gb2wow

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 3 4 :: [one page]

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.05.18 11:24:00 - [1] Edited by: LaVista Vista on 18/05/2008 11:36:06 I was just discussing with a friend on ventrilo, why eve is starting to get kind of boring, as new features have been implemented. The problem, at least I face, is that the game doesn't really reward smart people. The game is by no means complex. In fact, I think the game has been moving from being fairly complex, to almost wow-like. But then again. There isn't any mmorpg out there, which is better than eve. All of them are wow clones. So this question came to mind, why do people tell people on the forums, to go back to wow, when we already have a game which is quickly approaching wow-like gameplay? And why is CCP moving that way? I would love to think they are trying to please people by making more interesting features, making it more complex etc, rather than attracting all the wow people(No offence, I know a lot of wow players who does eve too, and are quite smart) The obvious example is how CCP is blalantly ignoring the industry side of eve, which is the only real complexity we have left. Yet it's extremely shallow really. Is EvE doomed in that way, and is the gaming industry(Including CCP) overlooking the minority who's got a brain? EDIT: People are taking the topic WAY too serious. This is not a whine, it's just a mindgame. While it's an issue in my mind, it doesn't mean eve is doomed.
Jaggeh Thundercats RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.18 11:27:00 - [2] id like you to meet my friend his name is conclusion, now the only way to reach him is by jumping....
Jorah Vulture Minmatar Wrecking Ball Inc.	Posted - 2008.05.18 11:27:00 - [3] Originally by: LaVista Vista I was just discussing with a friend on ventrilo, why eve is starting to get kind of boring, as new features have been implemented. The problem, at least I face, is that the game doesn't really reward smart people. The game is by no means complex. In fact, I think the game has been moving from being fairly complex, to almost wow-like. But then again. There isn't any mmorpg out there, which is better than eve. All of them are wow clones. So this question came to mind, why do people tell people on the forums, to go back to wow, when we already have a game which is quickly approaching wow-like gameplay? And why is CCP moving that way? I would love to think they are trying to please people by making more interesting features, making it more complex etc, rather than attracting all the wow people(No offence, I know a lot of wow players who does eve too, and are quite smart) The obvious example is how CCP is blalantly ignoring the industry side of eve, which is the only real complexity we have left. Yet it's extremely shallow really. Is EvE doomed in that way, and is the gaming industry(Including CCP) overlooking the minority who's got a brain? I'm surprised that a serious CSM candidate is posting a whine like this. You even mentioned WoW!
Jakus Cemendur Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.05.18 11:29:00 - [4] Probably a question of time, resources and money. They could invest a lot of dev time, resources and money into improving the industry side of things, but few people really do the industrial thing. Whereas investing dev time and money into things such as factional warfare will probably affect more people who play the game, and draw in more people who are interested in the game. EVE's moved beyond being a small niche MMO, and unfortunately that means the game will change if CCP want to keep the growing playerbase interested. ------
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.05.18 11:31:00 - [5] Originally by: Jorah Vulture I'm surprised that a serious CSM candidate is posting a whine like this. You even mentioned WoW! I'm not whining. I'm just hoping to provoke the devs a bit.
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.05.18 11:34:00 - [6] Originally by: Jakus Cemendur EVE's moved beyond being a small niche MMO, and unfortunately that means the game will change if CCP want to keep the growing playerbase interested. That is kind of the thing I'm worried about myself. Is CCP moving away from the original idea of the game, and moving towards something so trivial, it's not even fun to play? I mean, some people think wow is fun, and I guess I can see their perspective. But it's just so repititive and doesn't require too much brain(I'm not trying to offend anyone, but I got a boring feeling, playing it)
Jakus Cemendur Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.05.18 11:37:00 - [7] Originally by: LaVista Vista That is kind of the thing I'm worried about myself. Is CCP moving away from the original idea of the game, and moving towards something so trivial, it's not even fun to play? I mean, some people think wow is fun, and I guess I can see their perspective. But it's just so repititive and doesn't require too much brain(I'm not trying to offend anyone, but I got a boring feeling, playing it) Well with the next expansion being FW I would disagree with them making it less fun to play. FW seems to promise more small gang PvP which is perhaps the funnest part of EVE(or at least to EVE). Though of course you as an industrialist aren't really interested in that. The problem with industrialists is that being a niche in the player base you are likely to get a thrown a bone every now and then and that's it. I'm sure the devs would love to devote loads of time to everything, but they won't be able to, as they only have so many devs and only so much time. ------
Dormuth Purifier FREE GATES ACADEMY Omega Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.18 11:39:00 - [8] This little comic shows the difference between WoW and EVE players: Until it's stay this way, i dont worry.
Jorah Vulture Minmatar Wrecking Ball Inc.	Posted - 2008.05.18 11:39:00 - [9] Edited by: Jorah Vulture on 18/05/2008 11:39:48 Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Jakus Cemendur EVE's moved beyond being a small niche MMO, and unfortunately that means the game will change if CCP want to keep the growing playerbase interested. That is kind of the thing I'm worried about myself. Is CCP moving away from the original idea of the game, and moving towards something so trivial, it's not even fun to play? I mean, some people think wow is fun, and I guess I can see their perspective. But it's just so repititive and doesn't require too much brain(I'm not trying to offend anyone, but I got a boring feeling, playing it) (I'll try to make a valid point, but I'm afraid my english will not be enough, just bear with it and try to understand me :P) You're losing the perspective. It's not complex for you. Everything gets tiring some day. Everything is boring after hunders of hours on it. However, it's an odissey for new players. I've been on lots of MMOs and believe me, EVE is complex, and deep, at least for the newcomers. Making it even more complex would cross the line and keep newcomers from joining. I think CCP is following the right direction now. Graphic upgrades, ambulation, war... Appealing features that new customers can soon taste to keep them hooked to the game. It's the best for everyone. It's just like real societies. Who is more important for a community? Younglings or artritic oldies? You always have to bet for the young ones, the future. Older ones are going to die after all.
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.05.18 11:40:00 - [10] Originally by: Jakus Cemendur Originally by: LaVista Vista That is kind of the thing I'm worried about myself. Is CCP moving away from the original idea of the game, and moving towards something so trivial, it's not even fun to play? I mean, some people think wow is fun, and I guess I can see their perspective. But it's just so repititive and doesn't require too much brain(I'm not trying to offend anyone, but I got a boring feeling, playing it) Well with the next expansion being FW I would disagree with them making it less fun to play. FW seems to promise more small gang PvP which is perhaps the funnest part of EVE(or at least to EVE). Though of course you as an industrialist aren't really interested in that. The problem with industrialists is that being a niche in the player base you are likely to get a thrown a bone every now and then and that's it. I'm sure the devs would love to devote loads of time to everything, but they won't be able to, as they only have so many devs and only so much time. Oh, don't get me wrong. I'm very excited about FW making pvp more approachable, as it helps everybody. Being a PvP'er by profession(I started industry to feed my pvp habbit, but I got VERY hooked). Hopefully CCP will make WoD better, since they seem to be devoting all their good devs on that game.

LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.05.18 11:40:00 - [11] Originally by: Dormuth Purifier This little comic shows the difference between WoW and EVE players: Comic Until it's stay this way, i dont worry. ^ Wins thread.
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.05.18 11:43:00 - [12] Originally by: Jorah Vulture (I'll try to make a valid point, but I'm afraid my english will not be enough, just bear with it and try to understand me :P) You're losing the perspective. It's not complex for you. Everything gets tiring some day. Everything is boring after hunders of hours on it. However, it's an odissey for new players. I've been on lots of MMOs and believe me, EVE is complex, and deep, at least for the newcomers. Making it even more complex would cross the line and keep newcomers from joining. I think CCP is following the right direction now. Graphic upgrades, ambulation, war... Appealing features that new customers can soon taste to keep them hooked to the game. It's the best for everyone. It's just like real societies. Who is more important for a community? Younglings or artritic oldies? You always have to bet for the young ones, the future. Older ones are going to die after all. Good point indeed. Can't argue with it really
Jakus Cemendur Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.05.18 11:43:00 - [13] Originally by: LaVista Vista Oh, don't get me wrong. I'm very excited about FW making pvp more approachable, as it helps everybody. Being a PvP'er by profession(I started industry to feed my pvp habbit, but I got VERY hooked). Hopefully CCP will make WoD better, since they seem to be devoting all their good devs on that game. I think it's more likely the devs who've moved to WoD being more interested, probably because it offers them a chance to learn from EVE and make their next game even better. It means that for EVE new devs come in with perhaps a different vision, but this is what happens in the games industry. ------
Charney deGeoff Caldari New Tibet	Posted - 2008.05.18 11:47:00 - [14] A friend of mine once made a great comparison (this might go to waste to those of you who don't play World of Warcraft). EVE general chat reminded me of Orgrimmar chat - "allince is 4 ****in kidz" And that's pretty much how I see it, people really want to think they're elite and that EVE is for the truly hardcore and WoW is for looser kiddies. (of course that's a harsh generalisation, but since you started down that path..) You seem to hint that EVE is unique and original, however many of its features (take the recent CSM feature) are just taken from things that have existed in other games (MUD's have had player elected authorities for a long long time). I don't really care about rewarding "smart" people, that defenition by itself isn't very smart. I wish CCP would make the game more available to wider audiences and other playstyles (inclusing industrialists), but as it might be, keeping it focused to a small niche group (say, for arguments sake, hardcore PvP:ers) might be a good move. Fairly strange post coming from you, I'm used to seeing such subjective navel gazing attitude in your other posts.
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.05.18 11:50:00 - [15] Edited by: LaVista Vista on 18/05/2008 11:51:07 Originally by: Charney deGeoff You seem to hint that EVE is unique and original, however many of its features (take the recent CSM feature) are just taken from things that have existed in other games (MUD's have had player elected authorities for a long long time). Everybody copies things. The difference is implementing them in a way which is fun for the consumer. Originally by: Charney deGeoff Fairly strange post coming from you, I'm used to seeing such subjective navel gazing attitude in your other posts. I can't tell if this is good or bad. Either way, I guess you are correct. People are rarely that honest in their posts, about what they think about others(Other than in the CSM forum). I appreciate the honesty
Scilent Enigma Minmatar Vae Victis Inc.	Posted - 2008.05.18 11:50:00 - [16] I would say I agree to a certain extent, the game is patch by patch loosing a bit of it's complexity and only letting the annoying features remain. It removed the challenges of probing (good thing in the long run for PvP but it was kind of fun and challenging to triangulate a position before being able to deploy scanprobes) a complexity that I feel is lacking now when you: deploy probe, click Scan button and wait. This could have been made a lot more interesting. Though one of the responses brings up a very valid point as well, everything becomes old and easy given enough time. I would like to add though that there is still a lot of complexity left in the game, the Market for one is, not by game design but by how it is used by the players, a very complex world to explore.
Ishina Fel Caldari Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2008.05.18 11:52:00 - [17] Quite disappointing to read something like that from your hand, LaVista.
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.05.18 11:54:00 - [18] Originally by: Scilent Enigma Though one of the responses brings up a very valid point as well, everything becomes old and easy given enough time. I would like to add though that there is still a lot of complexity left in the game, the Market for one is, not by game design but by how it is used by the players, a very complex world to explore. Market is indeed one of the most complex things of the game. And if you read the market discussion forum, you will see some fairly deep discussions about it too, which is why I spend more time discussing on forums, than playing the game really This is one of the things I talked about in the evecast interview that I did. The reason I started doing podcasts and EBank, was that it's the only things which are rewarding for me(By no means isk wise, but just having fun and feeling good about it). That is kind of what complexity can do. They are damn rewarding, when you have these "Aha" moments, and can feel good about yourself. It's hard for people to make a difference, in this day and age. Yet I think a lot of people enjoy making a difference.
Feilan Minmatar Wolfkin Omnitechnologies	Posted - 2008.05.18 11:56:00 - [19] In which way has EVE been simplified to lure in the WoW crowd? Frankly, EVE seems a lot more complex to me now than it was a launch. Half of what we have now, was simply not there back then. Moon mining, POSes, Invention and the whole T2 thing etc. etc. Perhaps the real problem is that as we veterans play the game day in and day out, what used to be complicated has now become routine. Thus is seems like the game in turning more and more into WoW. Also, it seems to me that a lot of the complexity in EVE comes not from the game systems themselves, but rather the decisions and planning that lies behind your actions. Anyone can pop in a blueprint and some minerals in order to produce item X, but to actually be successful in selling item X on a large scale, you need to analyze the market and set up logistics in order to maximize your profit.
Heroldyn	Posted - 2008.05.18 11:56:00 - [20] Originally by: LaVista Vista I think the game has been moving from being fairly complex, to almost wow-like. could you provide 2-3 examples of where you think the game has moved from being fairly complex to being less complex ? just out of interest.

LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.05.18 11:57:00 - [21] Originally by: Ishina Fel Quite disappointing to read something like that from your hand, LaVista. I'm sorry you feel disappointed. It is by no means the intention of this thread. I'm curious why you think so, though. But as I noted, I merely posted this to get a discussion going, about where eve is heading. It has indeed been a small thing of mine, which I have been discussing with a few people, if eve is drifting away from it's original philosophy. And if this is bad or not.
In4r4	Posted - 2008.05.18 11:59:00 - [22] Edited by: In4r4 on 18/05/2008 12:05:43 Edited by: In4r4 on 18/05/2008 12:00:03 EvE can never decend to generic mmo level simply because of the way the game is designed. The likes of WoW have a start , middle , and end game, your more or less hand held through a linear world thats trying to trick you into believing your part of a massive sandbox. While EvE is a massive sandbox, and your given tools to go and make your own fun for yourself, im still here after three years because i know the content comes from the player base, and because of that , there will be no end to laughs , fights and drama.
Scilent Enigma Minmatar Vae Victis Inc.	Posted - 2008.05.18 11:59:00 - [23] Originally by: LaVista Vista It's hard for people to make a difference, in this day and age. Yet I think a lot of people enjoy making a difference. QFT I suppose it is a symptom of the rising subscriber numbers, with more people in the game the individual actions of one player means less and less...
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.05.18 12:01:00 - [24] Originally by: Heroldyn Originally by: LaVista Vista I think the game has been moving from being fairly complex, to almost wow-like. could you provide 2-3 examples of where you think the game has moved from being fairly complex to being less complex ? just out of interest. 1. Scan probes 2. The linear path of ship types 3. Decrease of barries to entry overall.
z0de Gallente The Bastards	Posted - 2008.05.18 12:02:00 - [25] Edited by: z0de on 18/05/2008 12:02:12 Don't like it, then quit. gb2/wow, can I have your stuff?
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.05.18 12:02:00 - [26] When EVE had a very small subscriber number count, almost everybody was an "expert", at least at the things they were focusing on... the larger the population grows, the average level of expertise in a certain field drops, and "mediocrity" becomes the norm, simply because the "entry barriers" were also continuously DROPPED instead of being RAISED, or at least differentiated. __ CSM candidates - quick reference cards (NEW: spreadsheet) Or just vote for LaVista Vista or Leandro Salazar like I did.
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.05.18 12:04:00 - [27] Originally by: Scilent Enigma Originally by: LaVista Vista It's hard for people to make a difference, in this day and age. Yet I think a lot of people enjoy making a difference. QFT I suppose it is a symptom of the rising subscriber numbers, with more people in the game the individual actions of one player means less and less... Very right. So can we conclude it's the symptom of CCP not increasing the "height" of the game, but expanding the width of the game? I guess that isn't bad. It's just unfortunate for the veterans(I'm by NO means a veteran, I only started playing wow back early 2006, mind you)
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.05.18 12:05:00 - [28] Originally by: z0de Edited by: z0de on 18/05/2008 12:02:12 Don't like it, then quit. gb2/wow, can I have your stuff? You didn't read my post. I didn't whine about me not liking it. I quite enjoy the complexity that is still left in some areas of the game. But I see them moving away, slowly but steadily. Hence this post.
Ray McCormack hirr	Posted - 2008.05.18 12:17:00 - [29] I don't see any examples of EVE approaching WoW-like gameplay. [WTS] Shares \| Secured ISK Loans
Feilan Minmatar Wolfkin Omnitechnologies	Posted - 2008.05.18 12:21:00 - [30] Originally by: LaVista Vista 1. Scan probes 2. The linear path of ship types 3. Decrease of barries to entry overall. Care to elaborate? I haven't really used scan probes other than for exploration and that whole thing still seems like it would make the "average" WoW player's head explode As for the linear path of ship types. What do you mean? Frigate->Destroyer->Cruiser etc. or? It's still nowhere near WoW's level 1..2..3..4 thing and we all know bigger is not always better in EVE, unlike WoW where an extra level will always make you better in some way without any drawback. As for decreasing barriers, I don't see this as a big problem. Opening up more gameplay options is a good way to keep someone interested for a long time to come. I wonder though, are you refering to T2 production? That whole deal still requires way more brain power than crafting in WoW. I know, because I just recently started working on that and figuring it out was nowhere near as straight forward as gathering 25 hides of fanbois in the troll caves of forum

Scilent Enigma Minmatar Vae Victis Inc.	Posted - 2008.05.18 12:27:00 - [31] I find it amusing to see how many people see only the "EVE is becomming more like WOW" metaphor and think they know what the post is about so they stop reading and writes up "how EVE is not WOW and gb2WOW lamer". Sigh WTS Reading Comprehension Skill book..
Gamer4liff Caldari Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY	Posted - 2008.05.18 12:48:00 - [32] Edited by: Gamer4liff on 18/05/2008 12:48:53 If they would just create some damn gameplay mechanic to allow highsec research POS slots to be able to be rented to the public, it would go a long way in improving research and industry. But even that is too much to ask I suppose. System wide asteroid belts, the Orca, new mining skills, a system of invention where you could research the BPCs to improve them. All pretty ideas, none of them likely to happen anytime soon. I agree with you though, research and industry have been shamefully ignored. That being said EVE has a long, long way to go before it's dumbed down enough to be even in the same ballpark as WoW.
Tzar'rim Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2008.05.18 13:08:00 - [33] A few snippets of stuff I posted on our corp forums; Quote: Yup, because when you set your goal to be a high number of subscriptions instead of focusing on the quality of your game, you already sold your soul to the devil and are now at risk of being held for ransom by majority vote. and; Quote: The easier EVE becomes the further away it goes from the initial idea and outset, which is was made the game so great. Being mainstream isn't good for an MMO which main selling point was the fact that it was a niche product on purpose. Looking for a corp again
Feilan Minmatar Wolfkin Omnitechnologies	Posted - 2008.05.18 13:34:00 - [34] I got a question. What is it that makes EVE non-mainstream to begin with? This thread has mainly focused on complexity in EVE vs. WoW being popular because it's simple. But, is it really... no pun intended... that simple?
xDow Fallen Pandas	Posted - 2008.05.18 14:03:00 - [35] Quote: So this question came to mind, why do people tell people on the forums, to go back to wow, when we already have a game which is quickly approaching wow-like gameplay? I think it is because people like to think of themself as better and smarter and dont want to assosiate them self with "lesser kiddy games" But infact WoW has brought life to the mmo market in my oppinion. I also think it has something to do with complexity can only get you so far. WoW showed that with simplicity you can get so much more out of the consumers. It's what we like and strive for. When your cooking food , do you do a 3 set course or microwave some fast food? I do like EVE alot and I still have this feeling that there are so much more to learn about the game. I believe that CCP will simplify it some more but also try and keep it complex enough to keep us intressted to play and bring in more consumers. - I has a spaceship.
Saloris Nighthawke Ryche's Aggressors Asylum	Posted - 2008.05.18 14:14:00 - [36] Complexity can get you alot farther than simplicity. Just look at just about anything in real life. As our technology gets better and better the more complex it gets. Transistor radio < HD radio as an example. When I cook I make a real meal. Sure, it takes a little bit longer than a microwaved meal but it sure tastes alot better and is better for me. Sometimes I'll nuke some food if I'm in a hurry but as a rule I eat real food. WoW gets blasted by "serious" video game players because it caters to the instant gratification crowd. The "I want it all and I want it now!" crowd. Eve is not and hopefully will never be like that. Complexity in a video game is needed or else we would all still be using our TRS-80's playing Zork and be happy doing it. Do not mistake complexity and difficulty. Do not confuse easy w/ good. - sig was here
Rulkez Personal Vendetta Vendetta Alliance.	Posted - 2008.05.18 14:25:00 - [37] Originally by: xDow Quote: So this question came to mind, why do people tell people on the forums, to go back to wow, when we already have a game which is quickly approaching wow-like gameplay? I think it is because people like to think of themself as better and smarter and dont want to assosiate them self with "lesser kiddy games" But infact WoW has brought life to the mmo market in my oppinion. I also think it has something to do with complexity can only get you so far. WoW showed that with simplicity you can get so much more out of the consumers. It's what we like and strive for. When your cooking food , do you do a 3 set course or microwave some fast food? I do like EVE alot and I still have this feeling that there are so much more to learn about the game. I believe that CCP will simplify it some more but also try and keep it complex enough to keep us intressted to play and bring in more consumers. WoW killed the mmo genre, instead of companies like CCP or Flying Labs Software (POTBS) making niche , but profitable mmos, with genuine new ideas and gameplay, we have 10 mmos a year chasing the "next WOW" tag, having a massive launch but dying within a year.
Tippia Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.05.18 14:50:00 - [38] Originally by: LaVista Vista 2. The linear path of ship types. Huh? Linear? (link in case of edit). The EVE ships are splayed out broader than most tree tops. In spite of containing 27 ship types, it is only four layers deep. Ok, 10 of these types hinge on having the cruiser and/or BS skills – is that what you're referring to?
Joe Starbreaker	Posted - 2008.05.18 17:52:00 - [39] Originally by: LaVista Vista EVE is like WoW So is the CSM voting finished? Because if not, I think you just lost. ---------------- [insert signature here]
Heroldyn	Posted - 2008.05.18 18:02:00 - [40] Originally by: Joe Starbreaker So is the CSM voting finished? Because if not, I think you just lost. actually did ccp state anywhere when the vote will be closed ?

LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.05.18 18:04:00 - [41] Originally by: Joe Starbreaker Originally by: LaVista Vista EVE is like WoW So is the CSM voting finished? Because if not, I think you just lost. Sorry, why are you faking quotes? And voting ends tomorrow. But what is your point? You obviously didn't read the thread duh
Madison Avenue Hedion University	Posted - 2008.05.18 18:10:00 - [42] Good thing I waited until now to vote. This wasn't a very well thought-out post. I'm not sure what you wanted to accomplish by posting. If this trolling is characteristic of what you will bring to the CSM, I don't want you on it. CSM members must be thorough and logical above all, not knee-jerk reactionary.
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.05.18 18:49:00 - [43] Originally by: Zurrar this game is no where near simple. Try one of the following, flying a nano ship in fleet combat, flying a sniper ship (you have to know transversal and other stuff), using a scorp to jam a fleet knowing which ships to jam, and how well you can jam them. but the best suggestion i can offer... LEAVE HIGH SEC. once you get to null sec, things change. Try joining goonswarm, i hear they will let you in for a small 250m fee. Sorry. I was in a fleet op in my megat yesterday. Also, I enjoy my vagabond and rapier. Oh joy
Hannobaal Gallente Shadow Forces Inc.	Posted - 2008.05.18 18:52:00 - [44] Originally by: Madison Avenue Good thing I waited until now to vote. This wasn't a very well thought-out post. I'm not sure what you wanted to accomplish by posting. If this trolling is characteristic of what you will bring to the CSM, I don't want you on it. CSM members must be thorough and logical above all, not knee-jerk reactionary. How did anyone expect anything else than what is in this thread after his threads about the economy?
Amastat Caldari Omegatech	Posted - 2008.05.18 18:55:00 - [45] Edited by: Amastat on 18/05/2008 19:03:25 Edited by: Amastat on 18/05/2008 18:56:15 Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Amastat People need to at least justify their reason to panic, though it shouldn't be happening at all. All of these panic threads are feeling and opinionated based, there is no facts to support it - in fact, all the facts do the opposite to supporting the panicking. I'm still curious why you keep going in the same track, even though it's an unjustified view. I don't think you have any place to say my view is unjustified when everything I am saying about Empyrean Age is against panicking and doomsday discussions. There is little fact currently known about Empyrean Age that gives players reason to panic about EVE turning into WoW - which further justifys my view, and the view of many others. While it makes all the panicking players look like idiots. I have a reason to speak about much of this; the forums at present, and have been for many days, literally flooded with Armageddon threads. The people opposing me are the ones panicking for no reason, and it's completely uneeded and utter nonsense. If your going to panic, panic when you actually have some solid supporting facts that are saying that this is turning EVE into WoW - otherwise, a few months later, you and many others are going to feel like a ass/idiot for preaching on this forum over no damn reason. It's doing more harm then good - in fact, it's doing no good at all. CCP has even said in numerous occasions to please not jump to conclusions when we don't even know hardly anything - EVEN CCP THEMSELVES is saying the EXACT same thing I and many other people have been saying. I've never gone off track, I've only made two posts; what other track was I on? So - as I said before. Either your making a political stunt, or you're one of the armageddon threaders who are currently running around in circles and are set on fire screaming. ____________________ "All warfare is based on deception... we must seem unable...seem inactive...and crush him " - Sun Tzu, the
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.05.18 18:56:00 - [46] Originally by: Amastat Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Amastat People need to at least justify their reason to panic, though it shouldn't be happening at all. All of these panic threads are feeling and opinionated based, there is no facts to support it - in fact, all the facts do the opposite to supporting the panicking. I'm still curious why you keep going in the same track, even though it's an unjustified view. I don't think you have any place to say my view is unjustified when everything I am saying about Empyrean Age is against panicking and doomsday discussions. I'm not arguing against the point about Empyrean Age you made. I largely agree with that. But you are jumping conclusions about my intent with the thread, even though it's clearly stated.
Amastat Caldari Omegatech	Posted - 2008.05.18 19:00:00 - [47] Edited by: Amastat on 18/05/2008 19:02:18 Edited by: Amastat on 18/05/2008 19:00:58 Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Amastat Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Amastat People need to at least justify their reason to panic, though it shouldn't be happening at all. All of these panic threads are feeling and opinionated based, there is no facts to support it - in fact, all the facts do the opposite to supporting the panicking. I'm still curious why you keep going in the same track, even though it's an unjustified view. I don't think you have any place to say my view is unjustified when everything I am saying about Empyrean Age is against panicking and doomsday discussions. I'm not arguing against the point about Empyrean Age you made. I largely agree with that. But you are jumping conclusions about my intent with the thread, even though it's clearly stated. If you insist this is not a political stunt - fine - however your still creating another epic 5+ page long panic thread; which is the problem I have here. This thread hasn't even been up for 12 hours and we're already on page three. This is but 1 of like 5 other armageddon threads on the front page of the general forum. ____________________ "All warfare is based on deception... we must seem unable...seem inactive...and crush him " - Sun Tzu, the
Riethe Fine Goods for Fine Gentlemen	Posted - 2008.05.18 19:01:00 - [48] what's your vent info i want to hear your voice
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.05.18 19:03:00 - [49] Originally by: Amastat If you insist this is not a political stunt - fine - however your still creating another epic 5+ page long panic thread; which is the problem I have here. This thread hasn't even been up for 12 hours and we're already on page three. If it turns out to be a panic thread, I'm sorry people are taking it in that direction. I can't help that though :( I was just interested in hearing what people thought. If people jump conclusions, it's their own fault.
Professor Perplex	Posted - 2008.05.18 19:04:00 - [50] can you give some examples on where eve has gotten more "wow like", or easier? i think it might just be that the game has stayed the same and it is just your perception because you have been playing for a while.

Amastat Caldari Omegatech	Posted - 2008.05.18 19:05:00 - [51] Edited by: Amastat on 18/05/2008 19:06:00 Edited by: Amastat on 18/05/2008 19:05:51 Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Amastat If you insist this is not a political stunt - fine - however your still creating another epic 5+ page long panic thread; which is the problem I have here. This thread hasn't even been up for 12 hours and we're already on page three. If it turns out to be a panic thread, I'm sorry people are taking it in that direction. I can't help that though :( I was just interested in hearing what people thought. If people jump conclusions, it's their own fault. Ah - I don't blame ya than sorry. That is true that on these forums, even a originally well thought out thread quickly fills up with idiots and it all goes downhill real quick. It's just annoying every expansion, this on in particular, the forums are flooded with this crap. I can't browse for more then 5 mins without hearing the crap. ____________________ "All warfare is based on deception... we must seem unable...seem inactive...and crush him " - Sun Tzu, the
Athre Minmatar The HIgher Standard	Posted - 2008.05.18 19:05:00 - [52] Originally by: Riethe what's your vent info i want to hear your voice if you just want the voice its available on many pod cast shows LVV has done in the passed.
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.05.18 19:08:00 - [53] Originally by: Amastat It's just annoying every expansion, this on in particular, the forums are flooded with this crap. I can't browse for more then 5 mins without hearing the crap. Yeah, factional warfare is a very considerable change to the game. While exciting, it's a big change. And I guess people in eve tend to be very conservative
Riethe Fine Goods for Fine Gentlemen	Posted - 2008.05.18 19:15:00 - [54] Originally by: Athre Originally by: Riethe what's your vent info i want to hear your voice if you just want the voice its available on many pod cast shows LVV has done in the passed. Well I don't. I want more than that. Mmm.
Cailais Amarr VITOC Chain of Chaos	Posted - 2008.05.18 19:15:00 - [55] LaVista, When youre new to something which is composed of many inter-related elements, and is large in scale its a 'complex' thing. As you become accustomed to, and understand each individual element and there relationship to other elements that thing is no long complex to you. So, for long term players EVE is less complex: but try explaining it to a new comer! This is something of a quandry for CCP. If they add increasingly complex elements to EVE to satisfy the long term players they run the risk of shutting out the game to the new comer. EVE isnt dumbing down - you simply understand it better through experience. C. VITOC - Amarr Corp for Faction Warfare!
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.05.18 19:15:00 - [56] Originally by: Professor Perplex can you give some examples on where eve has gotten more "wow like", or easier? i think it might just be that the game has stayed the same and it is just your perception because you have been playing for a while. 1) Scan probes changes(While original scanning was VERY HARD, it's at times a bit too easy now. The only real skill it takes is math 101, to figure out ranges) 2) Invention being a low-barrier to entry thing is arguably bad. The T2 market went from stupidly high barrier to entry, to very small(ISK and some skills is the only). 3) Jump bridges makes it stupidly easy to get around. 4) Cloak on your ship, and you are virtually risk free.
Amastat Caldari Omegatech	Posted - 2008.05.18 19:18:00 - [57] Edited by: Amastat on 18/05/2008 19:18:22 Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Amastat It's just annoying every expansion, this on in particular, the forums are flooded with this crap. I can't browse for more then 5 mins without hearing the crap. Yeah, factional warfare is a very considerable change to the game. While exciting, it's a big change. And I guess people in eve tend to be very conservative There is probably a balance of both liberal and conservative gamers - but yea, quite. CCP IMO is using this to attract conservative gamers from outside of EVE I think. It's something people can somewhat relate too, EVE is very differant from all other MMORPGS - so this creates a huge gap in terms of getting new players, this is a attempt to bridge this gap you could say. I have faith in how CCP has made and will do this; making sure this happens without altering the core of EVE - however I can understand fears of the game turning into WoW - if there was solid fact that this was happening, I would be pretty **ed too; in fact I probably would make a lot of you guys seem very calm, that's how ed I'd be. I'm reserving that right until I have a reason to back it though - there is none** right now, so it's a bit pointless for me to be blowing warhorns on this. ____________________ "All warfare is based on deception... we must seem unable...seem inactive...and crush him " - Sun Tzu, the
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.05.18 19:19:00 - [58] Originally by: Cailais LaVista, When youre new to something which is composed of many inter-related elements, and is large in scale its a 'complex' thing. As you become accustomed to, and understand each individual element and there relationship to other elements that thing is no long complex to you. So, for long term players EVE is less complex: but try explaining it to a new comer! This is something of a quandry for CCP. If they add increasingly complex elements to EVE to satisfy the long term players they run the risk of shutting out the game to the new comer. EVE isnt dumbing down - you simply understand it better through experience. C. Thanks a lot Cailais, the first reasonable post I definitely agree with the main point. But as you see just above this post, we have seen some things indeed being dumbed down. But I think the main question in my mind is, how complex should the end-game be? I mean, advanced math is complex at first. But when you learn it, it's dead easy. Surely a game is supposed to be challenging, even after you starting to figure it out? It's the argument if instant-gratification, once you get the "Aha" moment, is good or bad. It's good for more new players. But it hurts the long-term players.
Tokyo Beauty	Posted - 2008.05.18 19:27:00 - [59] Edited by: Tokyo Beauty on 18/05/2008 19:42:09 Oh wow! for someone who may be working closely with the devs you have just shown a real lack of respect for them by saying they are making the game less complex and more like world of warcraft. Maybe I over reacted a bit, but really, you're way off with those comments about the complexity and it becomming "wow-like"
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.05.18 19:30:00 - [60] Originally by: Tokyo Beauty Oh wow! for someone who may be working closely with the devs you have just shown a real lack of respect for them by saying they are making the game less complex and more like world of warcraft. Congratulations you have just single handedly lost the respect of some supporters and quite possibly lost the respct of the devs. I'm pretty sure the devs are smart enough to read the post first, and understand the intention. The devs knows they have my respect, since they are looking to FINALLY implement a stock market and central bank etc. Sorry

Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.05.18 19:34:00 - [61] Most of you seem to bash LaVista Vista for something he allegedly said. Well, while his wording might have not been the most fortunate one, he has a point. THIS ONE is worded in a way most of you seemed to at least mildly agree with. It's the same thing, really... __ CSM candidates - quick reference cards (NEW: spreadsheet) Or just vote for LaVista Vista or Leandro Salazar like I did.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.05.18 19:48:00 - [62] Edited by: MotherMoon on 18/05/2008 19:49:40 Originally by: Cailais LaVista, When youre new to something which is composed of many inter-related elements, and is large in scale its a 'complex' thing. As you become accustomed to, and understand each individual element and there relationship to other elements that thing is no long complex to you. So, for long term players EVE is less complex: but try explaining it to a new comer! This is something of a quandry for CCP. If they add increasingly complex elements to EVE to satisfy the long term players they run the risk of shutting out the game to the new comer. EVE isnt dumbing down - you simply understand it better through experience. C. exactly, glad someone agrees with me :) also just because something is now "easy" for you because you've learned it in no way makes it less complex, it just makes your smarter :)
SiJira	Posted - 2008.05.18 19:50:00 - [63] if you make it more complex wont more newbs crai and gb2wow ? Trashed sig, Shark was here
Shadow Joy	Posted - 2008.05.18 19:50:00 - [64] Ever consider the fact that the underlying reason for simplification may be performance? The complexity of EVE comes at a cost. The number of transactions that go on at all levels of the application are massive, especially compared to other MMOs. As the number of subscriptions has grown, in my opinion, certain scaling problems have approached critical levels. Since not adding new content is a quick way to doom the game to stagnation, making that new content as simple as possible is one way to make sure the servers do not collapse under their own weight. Old content that is reworked might be made simpler for a similar reason.
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.05.18 19:53:00 - [65] Originally by: Shadow Joy Ever consider the fact that the underlying reason for simplification may be performance? The complexity of EVE comes at a cost. The number of transactions that go on at all levels of the application are massive, especially compared to other MMOs. As the number of subscriptions has grown, in my opinion, certain scaling problems have approached critical levels. Since not adding new content is a quick way to doom the game to stagnation, making that new content as simple as possible is one way to make sure the servers do not collapse under their own weight. Old content that is reworked might be made simpler for a similar reason. You make an excellent point. But I really don't think majority of the things that was pointed out, is a matter of server performance. It seems to me to be merely to decrease the barrier to entry. But of course, I would love to be corrected.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.05.18 19:53:00 - [66] Originally by: Shadow Joy Old content that is reworked might be made simpler for a similar reason. are they reworking any old content to be more simple?
Jecob	Posted - 2008.05.18 20:08:00 - [67] Originally by: Shadow Joy Originally by: SiJira ... if we will be able to die while docked itll be harsh enough I'm hoping that's a feature of ambulation. I'm hoping this is a feature of Ambulation. Tea Bagging
Katini Ellegahn Gallente Capital Development and Security Industries	Posted - 2008.05.18 20:34:00 - [68] Originally by: Amastat ...even a originally well thought out thread quickly fills up with idiots and it all goes downhill real quick... +1 for Irony
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.05.18 21:56:00 - [69] AH HA so your a warp to zero shouldn't of been done kind of mind set! OK now I understand, personnaly when it comes to things like that if they find a way to get rid of instas or whatever the thing is they should keep it the way it is and just add more options. I really hope that one day eve has gates that don't just go to the next system but system highways that link important stations and planets. That way if bookmarks could be fixed or something then wooosh, warp to 15km is back and yet we can still move around faster. I don't' know though I think it works as it is now but at least I understand your mind set, the game is getting easier in little ways. At least they didn't give in and keep heat requirements high.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.05.18 21:57:00 - [70] Originally by: Shadow Joy Originally by: MotherMoon ... are they reworking any old content to be more simple? Scan probes immediately jumps into mind. One could also make a case that warp to zero makes things a lot more simple, as players do not have to have massive libraries of bookmarks anymore. How about when they consolidated loyalty points so they apply to corporations instead of individual agents? The mission changes that replaced trade good rewards with cash? As to whether CCP is currently reworking anything, I am not in a position to know. understood guys, I guess I was looking into the future not the past :)

Pan Crastus Amarr	Posted - 2008.05.18 22:17:00 - [71] CCP has more pressing matters to take care of other than making EVE a mainstream WoW-like game... EVE has a nice niche now, but bugs/lag/slow development are hurting it and making it WoW-like isn't the remedy. EVE Online: a cold, cruel world where (RL-)rich people replace their losses with GTCs sold to poor students who need to farm ISK to afford their play time ...
Vaal Erit Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.05.18 23:04:00 - [72] All the people who voted for you and now changed their minds are making me laugh. Those people believed the lying BS that LaVista Vista put out instead of reading his posts before CSM. LaVista Vista has been this whining "what about industrial people?" carebear for as long as I know. CCP has not been blatantly ignoring the industrial side of EVE. Can you say invention? Can you say fuel rods? Can you say jump freighters/Rorqual/Orca? Level 5 missions? Contracts, rigs, salvaging, market improvements, new ships/bpos, combat boosters, exploration, LP store. All that is blantantly ignoring the industrial side of eve? All of these things used to be complex but then are somehow not complex anymore? Or is it that other players (new players, hooray for new players) got into these new markets and gave you competition and you want to be top dog just because you have been playing longer? Please, LaVista Vista, why don't YOU go back to WoW.
Makhan	Posted - 2008.05.18 23:13:00 - [73] Edited by: Makhan on 18/05/2008 23:14:10 Originally by: Vaal Erit CCP has not been blatantly ignoring the industrial side of EVE. Can you say invention? The invention process is nice but it still has serious flaws. Quote: Can you say fuel rods? Not accessible to empire dwellers. Quote: Orca? Not even out with the chance of it ever coming out shrinking daily. Quote: Level 5 missions? How the HELL is this industry? Quote: Contracts that's not industry for the most part, that's people selling their rare-non marketable loot Quote: , rigs, salvaging, These are more mission runner things than industry. Quote: market improvements, What market improvements? The last one was the "remember settings" button, but that just saved a click. Quote: new ships/bpos, How does this change industry? It doesn't, the process is still the same. Quote: combat boosters, Nobody uses them Quote: exploration, LP store. You're really reaching if you call any of this industry. You need a better definition of industry if you think any of this is benefiting the common manufacturer.
Joe Starbreaker	Posted - 2008.05.18 23:15:00 - [74] Originally by: Vaal Erit fuel rods What? Originally by: Vaal Erit Orca What? ---------------- [insert signature here]
Erotic Irony 0bsession	Posted - 2008.05.18 23:19:00 - [75] Originally by: Joe Starbreaker Originally by: Vaal Erit fuel rods What? Originally by: Vaal Erit Orca What? By fuel rods, he probably meant this. Orca is supposed to be empire version of the rorqual, de-fanged of the jump drive and smaller presumably. ___ Eve Players are not very smart. Support Killmail Overhaul
Killer Kelly Caldari Allied Tactical Unit Scalar Federation	Posted - 2008.05.18 23:26:00 - [76] It might be WoW gameplay if you never leave high-sec but it sure as hell is interesting in Pure Blind. We have political conflicts daily out here. Just the other day we had a standoff with an ex-MC corporation in a non-soveriegn system. This is not WoW and is not going to be. In WoW, you kill everything you see. The industrial and logistical part of 0.0 alliances is immense, even for a small one like mine. We have to channel resources from POS to POS, and jump around caps and rorquals. Mission carebears remind me of WoW but 0.0 residents are definitely a league of their own in any MMORPG community. Only this game can effectively simulate a living, breathing, sovereign entity who must supply themselves with every bit of equipment they need to exist. And how is industry shallow? All ships need materials and industry supplies them. This isn't Guild Wars where you buy the iron bars from the merchant then go to the armor crafter. I am in a Griffin atm, built with a blueprint researched by one corpmate, built with materials mined by several of my corpmates and assembled in a POS run, fueled and protected by my corporation. Industry is by no means shallow. ___________ I Get Money in the Scalar Federation
Cpt Fina Mutually Assured Distraction	Posted - 2008.05.19 00:00:00 - [77] Have been expecting this thread for a while, but concerning FW.
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.05.19 03:58:00 - [78] Quote: Can you say invention Yes. Wanna hear? Invention was long due at the point of implementation. Quote: Can you say fuel rods? Why? They aren't implemented yet. Quote: Can you say jump freighters Point? Quote: Rorqual Mostly useless to the industry, only really works for these people, that peopel call "carebears". Quote: Orca? You just proved my point. Thanks! Quote: Level 5 missions? Nothing to do with industry. But supposedly level 5 missions sux epicly. Quote: Contracts Largely faulty implementation and stupid artificial barriers. Quote: rigs Uhm? Point? Quote: salvaging That isn't industry, that is PvE/PvP Quote: market improvements We got the ability to SAVE preferences and filter things(That is a consumers thing, not industry). It's 5 years late. Quote: new ships/bpos Largely irrelevant, when the game keeps growing. Go and take a look at the secondary market. Quote: combat boosters Only few people use them. Not relevant for industry. Quote: exploration Not relevant for industry. Quote: LP store Not relevant either. Quote: All that is blantantly ignoring the industrial side of eve? You don't think so, no? Quote: Or is it that other players got into these new markets and gave you competition and you want to be top dog just because you have been playing longer? You aren't exactly the first person to comment on that. I would hate a market with no competition. Then there is nobody to play with Quote: Please, LaVista Vista, why don't YOU go back to WoW Because(As I stated in the first post) I am comfortable here in eve.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.05.19 04:04:00 - [79] by the way you should actually check wow out, they have been making it easier and easier , thus wow has in fact becoming more like wow every patch :P
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.05.19 04:08:00 - [80] Originally by: MotherMoon by the way you should actually check wow out, they have been making it easier and easier , thus wow has in fact becoming more like wow every patch :P I haven't touched that since the early closed betas. Though I have seen some of the high-end stuff at a mate of mine. I should go play it though, according to a stunning amount of people in this thread

MotherMoon Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.05.19 05:01:00 - [81] Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: MotherMoon by the way you should actually check wow out, they have been making it easier and easier , thus wow has in fact becoming more like wow every patch :P I haven't touched that since the early closed betas. Though I have seen some of the high-end stuff at a mate of mine. I should go play it though, according to a stunning amount of people in this thread haha don't do it! but really they have doubled all EXP gain, they have increase the chance of really epic drops by about 40%, every big patch they just seem to make newer players "like" the game more and more. My friend was all mad when they made it so that you can gain honor in battleground (think LP but it takes about 3 days to get everything in the store) so that if you lose you still gain honor... while I don't play wow it just seems really... easy... too easy My friend told me wow is like the Macdonalds of MMOs, and I think he might be right.
Komen Gallente Trinity Nova Trinity Nova Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.19 05:20:00 - [82] I will say, having read two pages of this thread, that I, as a former industrialist, stopped being as much of one as I used to be, and got into PvP. Things quickly picked up, I put more hours into the game, and it looks like I'll be subscribed for a while yet. I now only participate in industry enough to convert loot and salvage into profitable items, that I do study the market, but casually, not intensively. I still find the industrial side of things fascinating, but not personally stimulating. Trinity Nova Mercenary Services Web Site - Nominated for the 2008 E-ON Magazine Awards
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.05.19 05:33:00 - [83] Originally by: MotherMoon haha don't do it! Nah, I think closed beta killed enough of my braincells, as it is(Yeah, people are going to pick this very sentence and use it against me. But whatever ) Quote: but really they have doubled all EXP gain, they have increase the chance of really epic drops by about 40%, every big patch they just seem to make newer players "like" the game more and more. My friend was all mad when they made it so that you can gain honor in battleground (think LP but it takes about 3 days to get everything in the store) so that if you lose you still gain honor... while I don't play wow it just seems really... easy... too easy My friend told me wow is like the Macdonalds of MMOs, and I think he might be right Yeah, that sound like the average prejudice, which people have towards WoW and the concepts they run their business on. Not to say it's incorrect, as I'm sure you are speaking the truth. But the point I make isn't just that CCP are making the game more available to people(AGAIN, it's not inheriently bad, it just sux for veterans). But as the game grows, what used to be high barriers to entry(Battleship BPO's were damn rare back in the days), they are now fairly low barriers. So it's not just CCP which is decreasing barriers. The course of the game does too. And CCP isn't increasing the "height", which means that people quickly hit the ceiling.
Lykah Storm Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2008.05.19 05:41:00 - [84] Edited by: Lykah Storm on 19/05/2008 05:41:46 Originally by: LaVista Vista The problem, at least I face, is that the game doesn't really reward smart people. Err, wtf? This game does nothing but rewards smart people. Stupid ones are the ones paying here and smart ones picks the fruits of actions made by stupid players. I am just LMAO while you are talking about WoW and smart people in the same thread. WoW is like running courier missions into ultimate boredom when you finally get to 2487278th level!!
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.05.19 05:44:00 - [85] Originally by: Lykah Storm Originally by: LaVista Vista The problem, at least I face, is that the game doesn't really reward smart people. Err, wtf? This game does nothing but rewards smart people. Stupid ones are the ones paying here and smart ones picks the fruits of actions made by stupid players. I am just LMAO while you are talking about WoW and smart people at the same thread. WoW is like running courier missions into ultimate boredom when you finally get to 2487278th level!! You didn't read my thread either. You didn't read Akita T's thread either. So while I agree that Wow is extremely boring, you make no other valid points.
Lykah Storm Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2008.05.19 05:44:00 - [86] Originally by: LaVista Vista I haven't touched that since the early closed betas. So, you are comparing current eve with a game that you haven't even played...
Lykah Storm Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2008.05.19 05:46:00 - [87] Originally by: LaVista Vista You didn't read my thread either. I did. And I think you're just marketing Windows Vista.
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.05.19 05:48:00 - [88] Originally by: Lykah Storm Originally by: LaVista Vista I haven't touched that since the early closed betas. So, you are comparing current eve with a game that you haven't even played... I'm sorry? Are you now to judge if I have played a game or not, when I have actually stated clearly, that I HAVE played it?
Gunner Dark	Posted - 2008.05.19 05:55:00 - [89] Isk printing used to be a game for a small % but not the playing field is level . /sad panda /thread
Amastat Caldari Omegatech	Posted - 2008.05.19 05:56:00 - [90] Almost on page 5 ____________________ "All warfare is based on deception... we must seem unable...seem inactive...and crush him " - Sun Tzu

Amastat Caldari Omegatech	Posted - 2008.05.19 05:57:00 - [91] Edited by: Amastat on 19/05/2008 05:57:39 Double post, kick the server. ____________________ "All warfare is based on deception... we must seem unable...seem inactive...and crush him " - Sun Tzu
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.05.19 05:59:00 - [92] Originally by: Gunner Dark Edit : I think his point is your using wow as a bad example of what MMO can become, yet oyu haven't even played a finished version. I have actually triede it since then. I have a level 50 character somewhere, actually.
Amastat Caldari Omegatech	Posted - 2008.05.19 06:06:00 - [93] Edited by: Amastat on 19/05/2008 06:06:19 I played WoW at release up to patch 1.9 - I left shortly after Battlegrounds were released and the droprates for armor sets sucked. This was when this was dishonor too. You can imagine why I left and why Blizzard will never again see a dime of my money. Anything beyond that, in terms of what I know, is from private servers. ____________________ "All warfare is based on deception... we must seem unable...seem inactive...and crush him " - Sun Tzu
Gunner Dark	Posted - 2008.05.19 06:07:00 - [94] Originally by: LaVista Vista I have actually triede it since then. I have a level 50 character somewhere, actually. Originally by: LaVista Vista I haven't touched that since the early closed betas. you should really decide which one it is. WoW is WoW, it was aimed at the outset to be a polished MMO by the numbers, that's not something you can ever call EVE. But making a thread asking if people agree that EvE is being dumbed down just gets people backs up, most people are average, and threads like this only server to bring flames and make the OP look arogant. If you think EvE is getting to easy, or isn't complex enough, you need to golrnmoar about MMO's
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.05.19 06:14:00 - [95] I remember back in beta it was fun to try to get a battleship, they were rare, you couldn't just buy one. and when you saw one in space you **** your pants and ran. or you tried to take it down! but battleships were also a lot more powerful in day. SO sadly I guess it's just what happens in a mmo :( for instance even with the silly high requirements, titans are becoming more and more common. I mean even ratting was interesing, or in otherwords, forget mining just run in there with a miner one and an afterburner, mine somethign rare needed for battleships, and then run for the hills! I honestly almost hoped they would make FW battleships only, no caps at all allowed in. And then made it so that you could buy new one of kind battleships form each faction, or some kind of enclosed econmy, which I know is agaisnt what eve is, but it would be fun if on day one all people could use in FW was frigates becuase you needed higher ranks to get bigger ships and such. that would be cool, back to the good old days :P
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.05.19 06:55:00 - [96] Originally by: Gunner Dark you should really decide which one it is. Yeah, it's a bit contradicting, actually. I admit it. I played wow. I played most of closed beta, and did played a bit on and off after then. Maybe "touched" was a bit too big of a word. Let's just say I haven't played regularly since CB.
Vaal Erit Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.05.19 07:24:00 - [97] Ok, lets take this very, very slowly. Read my post, then refrain from commenting. Read my post again. Accept the facts and shrug your shoulders. Your comment: "CCP is blalantly[sic] ignoring the industry side of eve" -LaVista Vista You did not define the "industry side of EVE" so I defined it. Or am I supposed to read your mind? I mentioned MANY different ways how CCP has improved the industry side of EVE. Invention alone is a gigantic leap for the industry side of EVE and has been constantly tweaked. Remember not choosing what recon you would invent? Or the decryptors and other improvements that were made? HOW THE HELL is that BLATANTLY IGNORING the industry side of EVE. I specifically mentioned fuel rods/orca, because *GASP* CCP has been directly involved in both of those threads. Blatantly ignoring would mean that CCP would not give a single reply to anyone about industry and certainly wouldn't do things like publish a very good guide on setting up and managing a POS (or is that not industry as well?) A good example of being blatantly ignored is the infamous Diablo II 1.10 patch. The blizzard devs said it would be out "soon" and then after 10 months of zero communication it was released. Originally by: CCP Casqade Please refrain from making assumptions on game mechanics and then presenting them as facts before testing them yourself.
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.05.19 07:40:00 - [98] The things you mention are just ideas at present. I have seen Chronotis(Much love) post quite a bit indeed. But until I see a patch note which actually specifies these things, I'm not convinced. As for the constant tweaking, just means they didn't get things right the first time. So they were forced to fix it, as it was obviously pretty broken. But you are stretching my words really far. But you seem to think that just because some talk is going on, they aren't ignoring an issue. You think that, just because a politician says "WE WANT TO MAKE EVERYTHING BETTER", everything is going to be better? That is naive. Again, lets just stick to actions CCP has taken. You could start by reading my 2 PDF's about what is broken with the industry side of eve. That will define the scope of what I'm talking about, as well.
Mother Drone Gallente	Posted - 2008.05.19 07:46:00 - [99] Long time ago EVE startet as an ambitious project from a small garage company(CCP). It was ment for a small and somehow "special" playerbase - with success. A lot of new and shiny things were introduced the last few years and EVE is today far bigger than ever before. But EVE is becoming more and more ordinary ... step by step. So what happened? CCP realized the possibilities to earn big money simply by satisfying the masses - like WoW. New graphics instead of fixing lag or adding intelligent content (lvl 5 missions ... hint hint^^). At the beginning WoW was a better game than today (i guess even like EVE). Much smaller, far less available instances ... but providing more fun. It's not a secret that Blizzard earns over 9000 trillion (insert any currency here) per minute. CCP is aiming to secure a small piece of that fat cake for themselves ... maybe. And who wants to blame them for? It's an economic working company. Sooner or later it's all about the money - even in our beloved computer games. (now am sad. m÷p and m÷p
fuze InfoMorph Services Ltd	Posted - 2008.05.19 08:55:00 - [100] After playing Eve for 5 years now I get more the impression that development in Eve is more and more being directed by marketeers rather then a bunch of nerds like it should be. And it might up like Metallica. shudders NERD POWAH!

Mother Drone Gallente	Posted - 2008.05.19 10:37:00 - [101] Metallica ... ... a good comparison. m÷p and m÷p
Tzar'rim	Posted - 2008.05.19 11:25:00 - [102] Originally by: fuze After playing Eve for 5 years now I get more the impression that development in Eve is more and more being directed by marketeers rather then a bunch of nerds like it should be. And it might up like Metallica. shudders NERD POWAH! Bingo
Pan Crastus Amarr	Posted - 2008.05.19 11:42:00 - [103] Originally by: Mother Drone Long time ago EVE startet as an ambitious project from a small garage company(CCP). It was ment for a small and somehow "special" playerbase - with success. A lot of new and shiny things were introduced the last few years and EVE is today far bigger than ever before. But EVE is becoming more and more ordinary ... step by step. So what happened? CCP realized the possibilities to earn big money simply by satisfying the masses - like WoW. New graphics instead of fixing lag or adding intelligent content (lvl 5 missions ... hint hint^^). At the beginning WoW was a better game than today (i guess even like EVE). Much smaller, far less available instances ... but providing more fun. It's not a secret that Blizzard earns over 9000 trillion (insert any currency here) per minute. CCP is aiming to secure a small piece of that fat cake for themselves ... maybe. And who wants to blame them for? It's an economic working company. Sooner or later it's all about the money - even in our beloved computer games. (now am sad. The big problem with moving from building quality for a niche to making as much money as possible is that all the "second rate" MMO publishers have noticed that RMT is the best way to make money regardless of the quality of their game (players come, play a few weeks, invest a few $10 to buy cool stuff, then leave). So EVE is probably heading that way also (buy ship colors in the EVE store etc.). EVE Online: a cold, cruel world where (RL-)rich people replace their losses with GTCs sold to poor students who need to farm ISK to afford their play time ...


Pages: 1 2 3 4 :: [one page]

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.