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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Papa Ina
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.05.22 19:03:00 -
[1]
I would like it brought to the attention of CCP that BACON and applications like it are detrimental to the game in general. If you want protection from wardecs and low/0.0 space pirates you should use in game means.
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Heartstone
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.05.22 19:07:00 -
[2]
So very signed
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Haakelen
United Forces
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Posted - 2008.05.22 19:07:00 -
[3]
Of course.
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Siona Windweaver
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Posted - 2008.05.22 19:08:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Siona Windweaver on 22/05/2008 19:21:23
I fail to see the point of harmfulness that some people believe in programs like BACON. On the contrary, it enhances the game experience imo. Its not a macro program that allows you to remain AFK for the rest of your life or something.
So much whinage for just a small beep is surprising, considering nearly all Online games uses a method of log reading in real time to measure DPS or making statistics. Some of these programs are so advanced you can often actually guess pretty accurately the gear of your opponent or working out his attacks, even figure out if he is getting help from far away or if he has an invisible ally nearby. All of these are done by merely parsing the logs.
Here is a program called ACT, its popular for Everquest 2. You can do all the things I said in real time if you know how to use it, you can do even more with it if you raid regularly. Such as predicting NPC AE's, seeing NPC DPS, encounter timers, spell damages, things this program can do is amazing, yet i have never ever saw a thread thats pointing anything bad about it.
I respectfully disagree with you. Though i can hear the swarm coming this way to agree with you whole heartily 
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Papa Ina
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.05.22 19:13:00 -
[5]
I travel with local open, I'm constantly scanning the space around me, every trip through empire is tinged with the fear off death. I think it's me that has the enhanced game experience.
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zykerx
Pegasus Mining and Securities
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2008.05.22 19:14:00 -
[6]
what does that program do ?
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"MY COMMENTS IN NO WAY REFLECT MY CORP OR ALLIANCE"
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Roscoe Rhoads
Mont Pelerin Society
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Posted - 2008.05.22 19:17:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Roscoe Rhoads on 22/05/2008 19:17:27
Signed.
 Originally by: zykerx
what does that program do ?
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=753528
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Human action is purposeful behavior. |
Delezar
Hellfire-Empire
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Posted - 2008.05.22 19:19:00 -
[8]
Agreed.
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Herschel Yamamoto
Bloodmoney Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.05.22 19:22:00 -
[9]
/not signed. BACON is exactly the kind of program that should be encouraged by CCP - automate the boring crap, leave the player to actually play the game. If they're going to let the UI suck by default, at least let us fix it.
Originally by: zykerx
what does that program do ?
It checks local for hostiles, and plays a sound if any come in. Basically, it's an automated scanner for local. The log server is how it's implemented technically, since the EULA bans programs that check game data directly.
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Fix the forums! |
Papa Ina
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.05.22 19:23:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
automate the boring crap
The boring crap is coming under attack?
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Tiger Fai
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Posted - 2008.05.22 19:26:00 -
[11]
Agreed. It's not in the spirit of the game (much like local, constellation chat is more than enough :P).
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TOO MANY ENERMY |
Herschel Yamamoto
Bloodmoney Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.05.22 19:27:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Papa Ina
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
automate the boring crap
The boring crap is coming under attack?
If BACON fought the PvP for you, I'd agree. Scanning local is boring, and it's exactly the sort of thing that led humans to invent automation in the first place. It's a simple algorithm that involves scanning large amounts of data and doing a list comparison - this is the sort of thing computers in the 1950s were built for. And it's non-interactive, meaning that there's no macroing concerns. If that can't be automated, I don't know what can.
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Fix the forums! |
Siona Windweaver
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Posted - 2008.05.22 19:31:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Siona Windweaver on 22/05/2008 21:06:48
Honestly, if so many people is whining about a program that beeps when a hostile comes to system, i think people will actually riot if CCP allows custom UI's. I cannot believe how a simple thing that can be easily implemented to an UI if there was an option for completely customizing it, causing so much whinage.
Local is a window that everyone has on their screen by default when going into low sec and beyond. A simple beep does not change that, if anything, it makes it a must to be open to check who has entered to the system.
If CCP really gives in to this whinefest and does block this program, i think everyone can say goodbye to even slightly customizable UI. This program is nothing, when compaired to what you can do with a customized UI.
Edit: I actually thought that massive whine thread was a prank, or an aprils fools joke or something (i took a break before it was released and only recently came back). Stuff like this and even more have already happened on different games (aka UI customization), this is the only time i've ever saw massive outcry againts an improvement that doesnt even provide something more than already available.
You'll be amazed with what one person can do with simple combat logs or Custom UI packages. Producing dynamic map POI's (Points of Intrest), scalable map even if it isnt available with the game itself (player made maps), one click curing (removing a negative effect) to any raid member, queueing more than 3 cures, extra pet behaviors that isnt available with the original UI, timing display for your active spells, auto-logins etc etc. More advanced stuff requires indepth game knowledge. These are only basic things that a UI can do. Dont believe me? Check this out. These are some of the basic things you can do with a custom UI. You dont even need an actual support from the game itself to make this stuff. Beeping a sound when someone comes near you is from stone age when compaired to more serious stuff.
Everyone says they want custom UI, if they cant even take a basic program (no offense to creators), how can they think they can manage the chaos (!) that comes with custom UI's?
People need to get beyond these things, it isnt a programs fault if you die, or cant find a target to gank, its only your own damn fault. That program adds nothing that isnt already there.
Edit 2: Just to clarify, both ProfitUI and ACT is widely used within EQ2 community. Infact, ProfitUI itself is the most popular UI, and ACT is being used by every PvPer and Raider.
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Herschel Yamamoto
Bloodmoney Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.05.22 19:34:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Siona Windweaver
Honestly, if so many people is whining about a program that beeps when a hostile comes to system, i think people will actually riot if CCP allows custom UI's. I cannot believe how a simple thing that can be easily implemented to an UI if there was an option for completely customizing it.
Local is a window that everyone has on their screen by default when going into low sec and beyond.
If CCP really give in to this whinefest does block the program, i think anyone can say goodbye even slightly customizable UI.
This is exactly what I'm afraid of. Too many people are worshiping the status quo, despite its obvious deficiencies, and it might ruin the chances for real change, as well as band-aids like BACON.
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Fix the forums! |
Voculus
E X O D U S
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2008.05.22 19:39:00 -
[15]
Signed.
_________________________________________________________
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Virtuozzo
IVC Consortium
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2008.05.22 20:15:00 -
[16]
I'd much rather see some recognition on how tools like these have been in use for years in spite of people trying to bring them to the light. And a lot more attention on macro exploits which are insanely well distributed everywhere.
Bacon is a tool which put **** into the light, kudos for that. The functionality itself will cease when the Logserver gets subjected to change (encryption). The impact of the tool has, quite frankly, been hilarious. Go look at Hydra space.
CAOD FTW.
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Ishina Fel
Synergy.
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2008.05.22 20:22:00 -
[17]
Supporting the outlawing and, if possible, removal of log server tools.
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Bad Harlequin
Chiroptera Factor
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Posted - 2008.05.22 20:31:00 -
[18]
Umm... I went and checked out the info page on the thing, but... sorry, I don't see the problem.
Originally by: Release Note
to comply with CCP's request.
Especially if they do that. Can someone explain exactly what issue(s) they have with it, more specifically than "it breaks the spirit of the game!" 'Cause you can argue that about lots of stuff endlessly... cause everyone has a different spirit, if you catch my meaning; and only CCP can ultimately decide if something breaks their idea of it. Hence, of course, the CSM and this forum: so, convince me.
Zleip > very, and this is more or less a post of humor that seriousness =)
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Sakura Nihil
Stimulus
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Posted - 2008.05.23 00:58:00 -
[19]
It needs to be looked at. All a dev needs to do is stroll into Venal, poke the ISK farmers for 5 seconds in local, and see how fast they logoff.
A prime example of how the logserver needs to be changed.
Goal Line Blitz, an American Football MMO |
Bad Harlequin
Chiroptera Factor
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Posted - 2008.05.23 01:00:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Sakura Nihil
It needs to be looked at. All a dev needs to do is stroll into Venal, poke the ISK farmers for 5 seconds in local, and see how fast they logoff.
A prime example of how the logserver needs to be changed.
But how did BACON change this? I remember farmers and macrominers from whence i last was here, pre-pork.
Zleip > very, and this is more or less a post of humor that seriousness =)
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Zeknichov
Imperial Shipment
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Posted - 2008.05.23 01:07:00 -
[21]
Bacon is fine, local is the problem.
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Minud Distr
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Posted - 2008.05.23 01:09:00 -
[22]
ISK farmers are not the main problem, IMHO: yes they should be dealt with, but it's another issue. Still, it shouldn't be possible to use the logserver for intel purposes, it really is way too powerful. |
Bad Harlequin
Chiroptera Factor
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Posted - 2008.05.23 01:12:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Minud Distr
it really is way too powerful.
please support this position and quantify what you can..? i honestly want to know what you think, because i see people honked off at the results but not articulating Why It's Bad.
Zleip > very, and this is more or less a post of humor that seriousness =)
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Fluffy Kitten
Mont Pelerin Society
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Posted - 2008.05.23 01:13:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Fluffy Kitten on 23/05/2008 01:14:25
Originally by: Siona Windweaver
i think people will actually riot if CCP allows custom UI's
An EVE custom UI will only be able to access information that the developers give the UI SDK access to though, while you're acting like it will default to what the EQ2 SDK provides.
Personally I believe we should go in one "extreme" way or the other, e.g. either we allow this full out and have the major powerblocks starting automated information sharing over 2000+ members; or that's not at all what we want from this game and we remove this venue now and even possibly look into automatic visibility in Local again (e.g. you shouldn't be, unless you talk).
I feel the latter, or even a status quo in this area, is alot more true to the EVE that I signed up for.
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Sakura Nihil
Stimulus
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Posted - 2008.05.23 03:17:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Bad Harlequin
Originally by: Sakura Nihil
It needs to be looked at. All a dev needs to do is stroll into Venal, poke the ISK farmers for 5 seconds in local, and see how fast they logoff.
A prime example of how the logserver needs to be changed.
But how did BACON change this? I remember farmers and macrominers from whence i last was here, pre-pork.
Let me put it this way.
BACON works off the logserver, just as it appears the macroer's programs do. They are two sides of the same coin, in this respect, should be changed as they give an edge to people using them.
That being said though, this issue is a bit of a moot point, as CCP has stated it intends to change the way the logserver works in previous postings.
Goal Line Blitz, an American Football MMO |
Kovid
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.05.23 03:18:00 -
[26]
Local as intel is bad enough. Ctrl-Q is forever a plague.
If there was any reason why CCP hasn't allowed 3rd party tools like UI tools as WoW has, this must be one of them. So if we aren't going to have full support of these kind of tools, stop the cause of it.
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Divad Ginleek
Gateway Industries
House of Mercury
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Posted - 2008.05.23 03:43:00 -
[27]
Haven't tried this program yet, and it does seem to push things a little far toward the "easy button". But it seems that the same bored griefers that want local removed seem to hate BACON, so that means I should like it =D.
Just face it guys. Your argument for free targets is thinly disguised by phrases like: "it goes against the spirit of the game". All you want is to be able to hop from belt to belt killing anything not nanoed better or higher skilled/lower sec rating than you, with no source of intel whatsoever. Scanner? Right, by the time a ship shows up on it they're most likely already warping to you. Just drop the local business. CCP, and the rest of us see straight through it.
But, signed, because I do think BACON goes a little too far. Local is more than sufficient if your paying attention.
::insert witty signature here:: |
Wolf Soldier
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2008.05.23 03:59:00 -
[28]
signed
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Loyal Servant
Contraband Inc.
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Posted - 2008.05.23 04:02:00 -
[29]
I think bacon is an exploit plain and simple.
I think it should be ruled as such.
I am sure all the carebears are loving bacon, but if CCP wanted people knowing that a hostile entered the same system as you by means of an audible prompt they would have designed that into the game.
Sorry, bacon needs to go bye bye, as do anything else that supports cheating/macroing.
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Weazy Trip
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Posted - 2008.05.23 04:05:00 -
[30]
I think bacon is fine. Its an automation designed to allow people to grind isk with a little less paranoia. Great! I welcome its addition just for the fact that making isk helps a player fund quality pvp-- fleet battles, cap battles, pos sieging, land-holding battles. If a person is farming some isk, how is it affecting you? A nano fit vaga will *****a ratting fit raven, so this type of pvp isnt even honorable.
Bacon isnt the problem, its the solution to a form of griefing.
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