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Gone'Postal
Scoopex
The Volition Cult
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Posted - 2008.06.04 09:19:00 -
[151]
Supported,
Bacon interacts (via the log server) with the game and automates a process the player should be doing but is to lazy to do.
Questions, Comments, Problems, Please address them to the CSM..
Now CCP Never have to visit the forum.
-V8I-
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Ranamar
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Posted - 2008.06.04 11:52:00 -
[152]
 Originally by: Beaverid Tesu
Edited by: Beaverid Tesu on 31/05/2008 14:24:29
Changing the UI is against the EULA. Creating an alternate UI is just the same as changing the old one. BACON is bad, m'kay?
/me is all for getting rid of any and all third party programs. If CCP doesn't make it it shouldn't be allowed.
I think a bunch of people have said this here, and it's *still* a real gem, to me...
Do you really want to play without anything like EVEMON? How about without something like EFT? I know that some people still add up power grid and stuff by hand, but I know that if you had to do that, there'd be a programmer who would write something like each of those, and on top of that, CCP appears to truly endorse both of them. BACON is a gray area because it opens a whole new can of worms, partly because we know it could do much more, but still... people complaining about all third-party programs probably use at least one or two of them themselves. Besides, what about spreadsheets? Should we ban spreadsheets too for being third-party applications, too?
Either all the people who complain about bacon are stupid and don't plan ahead, or they're all hypocrites, because we already have "must use" third-party programs that effectively change the UI, or at least provide functionality that the UI doesn't, and if I were CCP never will because it's actually better that way, IMO.
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FellRaven
GREY COUNCIL
Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.05 10:18:00 -
[153]
I'm not in favour and have not used Bacon or any other similar applications.
In defence of those who introduced Bacon, they were copying what others (Goons) have been doing for some time and did make CCP aware. So what ever changes CCP make I hope the will also target other applications and Macro-mining bots equally.
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Conar
shadow and flame
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Posted - 2008.06.05 14:50:00 -
[154]
/NOT SIGNED.
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Zorok
LEGI0N
F.E.A.R Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.05 16:03:00 -
[155]
I would like to throw my 2 cents in about BACON. As far as I'm concerned, this program is only an enhancement to the existing interface. To those that claim this program detracts from Eve, think about this- don't you think that in the future that on-board ships computers would at least be able to make audible sounds? IMO this is only a natural progression and this sort of program should be encouraged rather than stomped on just because a few people take issues with it. The program isn't foolproof but it's somewhat effective. Since this tool is now available to everyone, everyone has an equal chance to take advantage of it so to those who say it's not fair I say quit your whining and use the program too then.
This program clearly does not violate the EULA and is one of the more innovative programs I've seen for Eve. Since it doesn't use macros, I believe this program should be allowed to operate with Eve.
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Usha Lamia
Grave Diggers
Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.05 18:45:00 -
[156]
Local doesn't work correctly anyways. If a cloaker enters a system and immediately cloaks, it should follow that he is cloaked and therefore should not be visible in system or local until such a time that he decloaks or decides to break tactical silence in that channel.
I don't use bacon, I haven't tried it yet, but my understanding is all that it does is basically read the logfile for you in realtime. So it's a helpful 3rd party app. It's not macromining, macroratting or cheating in anyway that I can see. I say fix local first and then fix the rest of the buggy ass UI before we go picking on small apps.
It would go to reason that if BACON gets the axe for being a 3rd party app, then maybe EFT, Evemon and the plethora of other tools should too. Maybe the API should not be availiable to players. Maybe the game shouldn't have the ability to be alt-tabbed down like many other MMO's have been in the past. Make it an exclusive client to the foreground of the computer it's running on and disable alt-tab.
/NOT SIGNED
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Dinique
The Illuminati.
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.06.05 19:18:00 -
[157]
Death to BACON, the****gots that developed it and the****gots that use it.
_____
The species has amused itself to death
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NereSky
Trinity Nova
Trinity Nova Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.05 19:24:00 -
[158]
Edited by: NereSky on 05/06/2008 19:24:20
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SomeHardLovin
Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.06 00:16:00 -
[159]
Firstly..if you haven't actually installed and tried BACON.. you shouldn't be posting an opinion. Sort of like you shouldn't say a certain food is disgusting without trying it first.. otherwise your argument carries no weight.. its simply an unfounded opinion.
Secondly.. BACON simply adds an audio queue to something that already exists as a colour queue. If you watch local you identify hostiles by their colour.. (ie: reds or neutral).. BACON simply adds a Beep to that colour. It hardly revolutionizes the system nor does it give some crazy advantage.
If you are the kind of person that doesn't watch local you probably arn't astute enough to install BACON either. I use BACON.. I use it because I like the sexy audio queue and I like hearing what alliance the reds are from without having to open their profile. It doesn't make me a PVP god.. it doesn't make me unkillable (which is obvious from the various deaths i've enjoyed in the past few weeks). It simply adds something EvE should have already anyhow.
There is so much drama around such a mundane tool. Props to the GUNFLEET guys for thinking out of the box.. but its not like the add-on has changed the way the game plays. The majority of these posts are full of sound and fury, but ultimately signifying nothing. Respect to those who have added constructive criticism.
---
* The opinions expressed are mine and do not necessarily represent those of my corporation or alliance. |
Farrqua
Turbo Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.06.06 00:48:00 -
[160]
Edited by: Farrqua on 06/06/2008 00:48:15
Originally by: SomeHardLovin
If you are the kind of person that doesn't watch local you probably arn't astute enough to install BACON either.
However if you read the posts of some of the ones that are fighting so hard for it, you will quickly realize that players you quoted above that are not estute enough to install it are using it.
Another words because they do not want to put the effort in paying attetion to the game they are using an "aid" to make sure they don't loose there ships.
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SomeHardLovin
Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.06 03:26:00 -
[161]
Originally by: Farrqua
However if you read the posts of some of the ones that are fighting so hard for it, you will quickly realize that players you quoted above that are not estute enough to install it are using it.
Another words because they do not want to put the effort in paying attetion to the game they are using an "aid" to make sure they don't loose there ships.
Ok..so first of all i'm going to almost ignore the fact that not one sentence above was completely coherant.. i'll assume its a language barrier which is fair enough.
Regardless.. they are already using an Aid.. its called Local.. and another.. called tags. Red tags for enemies.. no tag for neutrals.. etc. Bacon simply adds one more audible layer of tags. Bacon really just adds a sound effect to local. If you really feel that makes people invincible well then fair enough.
I personally haven't found targets harder to find or catch than normal. Bacon doesn't tell people what ship i'm in or what gate i'm at.. it simply says i'm there which is information readily available through the local channel.
Will it possibly someday prevent you from catching someone who would otherwise have been busy eating cheatos and not watching the screen for a second? Yeah maybe.. but that encounter is so rare you won't miss it.. but you will probably appreciate the features Bacon gives you (ie: announcing the alliance and whether the target is war or just unfriendly).
To each his own of course.. but its certainly not worth the massive amount of posting drama its getting.
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* The opinions expressed are mine and do not necessarily represent those of my corporation or alliance. |
Lucias Trask
Shadows of the Dead
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2008.06.06 06:47:00 -
[162]
Originally by: Papa Ina
I would like it brought to the attention of CCP that BACON and applications like it are detrimental to the game in general. If you want protection from wardecs and low/0.0 space pirates you should use in game means.
First damn good Goon idea I have seen here.
NO BACON!! LESS CAREBEARS!! MORE PEWPEW!!!
[PANIC] |
Tozmeister
Digital Fury Corporation
Digital Renegades
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Posted - 2008.06.06 19:39:00 -
[163]
According to the patch notes this is going to be fixed in EA.
quote:-
Several improvements have been made to logging, both server and client side in order to provide a safer playing experience and a better development environment. 3rd party tools that utilize the client logs will no longer provide useful out-of-game intel. This change will not affect 3rd party programs who use the EVE API (EVEMon, EFT etc)
+++????+++Out of Cheese Error. Redo From Start+++
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Dani Leone
A Dark Cloud
Unaffiliated
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Posted - 2008.06.06 19:53:00 -
[164]
-----------------------------
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Luigi Thirty
19th Star Logistics
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Posted - 2008.06.06 21:00:00 -
[165]
BACON failure.
----
DOMINIX IS INVINCIBLEBLUE:(((( |
Mortok Tristan
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Posted - 2008.06.06 22:10:00 -
[166]
can we lock this topic, now that its official bacon is out...
see EA patch notes.
Quote:
Several improvements have been made to logging, both server and client side in order to provide a safer playing experience and a better development environment. 3rd party tools that utilize the client logs will no longer provide useful out-of-game intel. This change will not affect 3rd party programs who use the EVE API (EVEMon, EFT etc)
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ceyriot
Induseng Enterprises
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2008.06.06 22:24:00 -
[167]
derr...
Faction Store - Killboard |
Sazuka Kirr
Angelic Industries
Blue Sky Consortium
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Posted - 2008.06.07 02:28:00 -
[168]
/signed
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Niraia
GREY COUNCIL
Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.07 11:26:00 -
[169]
I consider this, and indeed anything out of game that provides the same functionality, to be an exploit. I hope CCP agree.
-
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. |
Kalinda Veldrin
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Posted - 2008.06.12 13:06:00 -
[170]
I support the discussion of this issue with CCP.
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redCube
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Posted - 2008.06.21 18:51:00 -
[171]
keep ingame stuff ingame
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Stalkman
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Posted - 2008.06.22 14:18:00 -
[172]
I agree and/or support this idea.
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Ranita Drell
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Posted - 2008.06.22 17:34:00 -
[173]
Thumbs down. This program simply takes a piece of information that is already being outputted to the client and presents in a more noticeable manner. I fail to see anything wrong with that. As far as abusive exploits go, it's about as "bad" as customizing your overview to make enemies easier to notice and target.
A good user interface works for the player, and that means the player should have a lot of control over how info is displayed. If the player is allowed access to a particular bit of info (such as the fact that a hostile has entered local, or that a particular ship is using a warp scrambler on him, or anything else) should be presented in virtually any manner that player desires -- via sound effect, text popping up in the middle of the screen, a line of text in a log, whatever.
I feel it's pretty stupid that keeping your eyes on a chat channel is an available (and necessary) tactical precaution anyway. It's bad for immersion, and borders on what we call "meta-game thinking" in pen and paper RPGs. Having the option of finding or recording an Aurora sound-alike voicing "enemy detected in system" or, failing that, a simple warning tone, is far better for maintaining a sense of immersion than watching the chat channel. If the "local" channel were eliminated and and replaced with with some other mechanism of detecting other ships in system (perhaps tied in some manner to your ship's sensor capabilities), that might be fine by me.
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White Ronin
Screenout
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Posted - 2008.06.22 18:04:00 -
[174]
CCP knew the large corps were using this type of program for a while by their own admission. They only decided to take action when it became public domain.
So they stepped in and removed its use in the public domain.
And as before, someone within a large subscription block will figure a way to do this again and ccp will find out but it wont be a problem till the other players of eve get ahold of it.
---------------------------------------------
"There have always been ghosts in the machine . . . random segments of code that have grouped together to form unexpected protocols. " |
Sin Fae
Income Redistribution Service
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Posted - 2008.07.03 19:15:00 -
[175]
I would recommend an in-game solution: A skill set/equipment fittings that allows entering a system that keeps your presence hidden in local. (within game and on the log server)
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Arthor Dark
Gallente
N.A.S.A.
Skunk-Works
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Posted - 2008.07.03 19:31:00 -
[176]
Edited by: Arthor Dark on 03/07/2008 19:34:40
Can we get an [ISSUE] thread going to bring back BACON, but integrated into Eve?
Having to watch some chat channel to determine if a hostile has entered the system is rather dumb. What's a chat channel got to do with flying a ship?
Like an above poster said, Aurora should do a "Hostile detected" or "Friendly detected."
Eve client is seriously lacking a decent UI, and an optimal one, should be one that doesn't have to be babyset and fought just to make your intentions realized, and having to stare at some small portion of a screen for an almost tacit update - it's ridiculous.
You guys must all be real proud of the chat channel vulturing skills that you have. Is that even a worthy skill? "I can vulture over the chat channel for people joining and leaving the channel like it's nobody's business."
Wow - mad skills. Lol.
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CuddleMonkey
Digital Fury Corporation
Digital Renegades
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Posted - 2008.08.02 21:49:00 -
[177]
Originally by: Arthor Dark
Edited by: Arthor Dark on 03/07/2008 19:34:40
Can we get an [ISSUE] thread going to bring back BACON, but integrated into Eve?
Having to watch some chat channel to determine if a hostile has entered the system is rather dumb. What's a chat channel got to do with flying a ship?
Like an above poster said, Aurora should do a "Hostile detected" or "Friendly detected."
Eve client is seriously lacking a decent UI, and an optimal one, should be one that doesn't have to be babyset and fought just to make your intentions realized, and having to stare at some small portion of a screen for an almost tacit update - it's ridiculous.
You guys must all be real proud of the chat channel vulturing skills that you have. Is that even a worthy skill? "I can vulture over the chat channel for people joining and leaving the channel like it's nobody's business."
Wow - mad skills. Lol.
I completely agree and support everything said here.
---
CuddleMonkey! |
Reuser
Caldari
Gunfleet Logistics
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Posted - 2008.08.02 23:09:00 -
[178]
Originally by: Arthor Dark
Edited by: Arthor Dark on 03/07/2008 19:34:40
Can we get an [ISSUE] thread going to bring back BACON, but integrated into Eve?
Having to watch some chat channel to determine if a hostile has entered the system is rather dumb. What's a chat channel got to do with flying a ship?
Like an above poster said, Aurora should do a "Hostile detected" or "Friendly detected."
Eve client is seriously lacking a decent UI, and an optimal one, should be one that doesn't have to be babyset and fought just to make your intentions realized, and having to stare at some small portion of a screen for an almost tacit update - it's ridiculous.
You guys must all be real proud of the chat channel vulturing skills that you have. Is that even a worthy skill? "I can vulture over the chat channel for people joining and leaving the channel like it's nobody's business."
Wow - mad skills. Lol.
Agreed. Make the Eve client have a reason to have sound turned on... As I have said 100 times before, there are thousands of reasons for Aurora to have a simple threat warning system, and virtually no reason for it not to.
That said, I am glad that CCP is pulling the log server entirely. It will push the game back to a level playing field for a while. We stopped developing BACON after CCP changed the log server, but based on posts on our support forums, it appears that people were able to at least theoretically get around those changes.
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Sweet Rosella
0utbreak
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Posted - 2008.09.18 15:50:00 -
[179]
get rid of bacon and others like it
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memphistopheles
interimo
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Posted - 2008.09.18 17:44:00 -
[180]
Edited by: memphistopheles on 18/09/2008 17:45:12
/Signed
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