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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
ramzahn
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Posted - 2008.05.26 10:48:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton
that pve is oh so rewarding, i get like 20 million for killing ships that are set to orbit me at a set distance and do one damage type with 1 launcher and 1 gun, and die in like 30 seconds!!!
ZOMG!!!!! HALT THE PRESSES!!!! I OUTSMARTED A CRAPTACUALR NPC ALGORITHM!!!!
rage quit and gimme ur stuff already!
It's seems strange but the only EVE-players that, to me, show signs of *masssive* boredom are those prefering PvP, which is so exiting. Is this expansion added to assuage that boredom?
Apart from that I personally don't like the way a valid question from some player is handled be a *DEV* in such an offhand and 'lolling' manner. I was quite taken aback to be honest.
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Estel Arador
AFK
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Posted - 2008.05.26 11:01:00 -
[32]
I don't get it. Patches (with or without PvE content) only get out every 6 months, so there's a period of 6 months where you have "no new PvE content" twice a year, every year, always.
If you think this patch doesn't contain any new PvE content (your claim, not mine), it will be at least another 6 months before any does come out.
Skills Explained |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2008.05.26 11:06:00 -
[33]
your right, but I didn't think mining required a response (and yes i do have an exhumers pilot) (oh and exploration is the same deal as missions, only it takes some time to find beforehand) (oh and no way in hell am i going to classify manufacturing or market activities as pve)
new pve content, well getting a gone berserk doesn't make me shout and yell for getting a new mission. getting any of the previous existing missions would have given me the same excitement factor
and now your talking some sense, heh having an amarr navy apoc with amarr navy fittings getting some nice extra power would be 
note that they are adding more faction cruisers
we cant have mini FW as declaring allegiance should be all or none. I can't decide to support caldari trade and be immune to gallente.
and what would say an extra 25% cpu/pg do to game balance over all, or would ccp make it a 10% at level 5, as a lot of my "dream fits" require that 5% implant somewhere, or dropping an energized adaptive nano for an adaptive nano plating
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Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2008.05.26 11:10:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Pottsey on 26/05/2008 11:13:16
ôdon't get it. Patches (with or without PvE content) only get out every 6 months, so there's a period of 6 months where you have "no new PvE content" twice a year, every year, always.ö
In the past we always had new stuff for PvE people every 6months ish or less, there was never a gap longer then 6months without new things for PvE. Now with EA there could be a gap as long as 1 year.
ThatÆs the problem, 6months since the last PvE content, 6months till the next PvE content = 1 year with nothing new. If only a dev could confirm there is some PvE content that doesnÆt involve PvP due soon.
ôThere will be PVE content in the new expansion as you can run missions for the new militas.ö
As I tried to explain before putting someone against players with some PvE elements is still PvP. Those new militias missions are no interest to many PvE people due to the PvP.
PvP with some NPC parts is still PvP.
EDIT: Just to be clear. Content for PvE people doest have to be new missions, new ships, skill and stuff that can be used for both PvP and in PvE without forceing PvP is all ok.
____
ôToo many times. Too many times have the addictions of man destroyed the progress of ages. History is about to fail us again, and deny us the right to walk among you once more.ö |
Keta Min
LEGI0N
F.E.A.R Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.26 11:11:00 -
[35]
Originally by: ramzahn
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton
that pve is oh so rewarding, i get like 20 million for killing ships that are set to orbit me at a set distance and do one damage type with 1 launcher and 1 gun, and die in like 30 seconds!!!
ZOMG!!!!! HALT THE PRESSES!!!! I OUTSMARTED A CRAPTACUALR NPC ALGORITHM!!!!
rage quit and gimme ur stuff already!
It's seems strange but the only EVE-players that, to me, show signs of *masssive* boredom are those prefering PvP, which is so exiting. Is this expansion added to assuage that boredom?
Apart from that I personally don't like the way a valid question from some player is handled be a *DEV* in such an offhand and 'lolling' manner. I was quite taken aback to be honest.
devs should flame where flaming is due. that actually adds to their rep.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2008.05.26 11:13:00 -
[36]
Originally by: ramzahn
It's seems strange but the only EVE-players that, to me, show signs of *masssive* boredom are those prefering PvP, which is so exiting. Is this expansion added to assuage that boredom?
Apart from that I personally don't like the way a valid question from some player is handled be a *DEV* in such an offhand and 'lolling' manner. I was quite taken aback to be honest.
the boredom I currently have stems from ratting my sec status up from -10 to -1.x, and now stuck in empire with no wars and not wanting to pirate so I can participate in said wars... speaking of war I think one just started last night. if boredom arises its because they don't want to fight back, or want to fight back with overwhelming numbers 
and ccp is an interesting breed to say the least
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Rakshasa Taisab
Sane Industries Inc.
Ursa Stellar Initiative
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Posted - 2008.05.26 11:15:00 -
[37]
I'm confused...
This expansion isn't targeted at people doing PVP, as we're pretty much all in alliances and busy doing our own thing. And according to the OP it's not for the PVE'ers.
So did CCP make a mistake with this expansion, not realizing that they were in fact targeting a non-existent demographic?
---
Author of rTorrent, the BitTorrent client for real men and mice. |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2008.05.26 11:20:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab
I'm confused...
This expansion isn't targeted at people doing PVP, as we're pretty much all in alliances and busy doing our own thing. And according to the OP it's not for the PVE'ers.
So did CCP make a mistake with this expansion, not realizing that they were in fact targeting a non-existent demographic?
lots of people in corps like to pvp. lots of individuals like to pvp. don't have to be an alliance to pvp
this expansion aims at brining some of the pvers who want to try pvp to try pvp. I was in this demo for quite a while, until something snapped in my corp and we all went to lowsec and pew pewd there for a while.
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skuko
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Posted - 2008.05.26 11:24:00 -
[39]
Edited by: skuko on 26/05/2008 11:24:47
Originally by: Pottsey
Edited by: Pottsey on 26/05/2008 11:13:16
ôdon't get it. Patches (with or without PvE content) only get out every 6 months, so there's a period of 6 months where you have "no new PvE content" twice a year, every year, always.ö
In the past we always had new stuff for PvE people every 6months ish or less, there was never a gap longer then 6months without new things for PvE. Now with EA there could be a gap as long as 1 year.
ThatÆs the problem, 6months since the last PvE content, 6months till the next PvE content = 1 year with nothing new. If only a dev could confirm there is some PvE content that doesnÆt involve PvP due soon.
ôThere will be PVE content in the new expansion as you can run missions for the new militas.ö
As I tried to explain before putting someone against players with some PvE elements is still PvP. Those new militias missions are no interest to many PvE people due to the PvP.
PvP with some NPC parts is still PvP.
EDIT: Just to be clear. Content for PvE people doest have to be new missions, new ships, skill and stuff that can be used for both PvP and in PvE without forceing PvP is all ok.
LEARN TO QUOTE PLEASE!
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Molpadia Devaux
Applied Creations
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Posted - 2008.05.26 11:32:00 -
[40]
Like it or not, some people prefer PvE. Any MMO that refuses to accecpt that decreases their potential subscribers. CCP is in business to make money. It is in their own self interest to provide content in both PvP and PvE environments.
The OP raises a valid question. In other MMOs I have primarily been a crafter. The same is true in Eve. PvP is less interesting to me that PvE. That should never make me a second class subscriber.
Pew-Pew can be fun, but there is a larger burden on us that like a different style. Training science and industry skills puts us at a disadvantage to those that train combat related skills for ratting. So either we cross train to be able to defend ourselves or become willing to play a SvV style ( Stalker vs Victim ).
An honest discourse on the OP's point is valuable, flaming of course is the result of the annominity of the internet. However Dev flames are in bad taste, exposing a more immature nature, rather than a serious reply to a paying customer.
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Elve Sorrow
Game-Over
Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.05.26 11:39:00 -
[41]
The new missions are not PvP content, they are very much PvE content. They do not force you to do PvP, there is just a larger risk for PvP happening. Your argument is similar to saying pirate missions are in .0 and as you risk PvP there, it isn't PvE content.
Also, let me explain in case you missed it:
There is new PvP content in the form of lowsec systems that can be conquered by occupying exploration sites. Wont bother you with the details. Yes, there are some NPCs there. Definatly not PvE content though.
There is new PvE content in the form of new agents in new corporations that offer new missions. The only thing changed is they're in lowsec, and the risk to get ganked is larger. The rewards are, supposedly, higher too.
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Adonis 4174
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Posted - 2008.05.26 11:43:00 -
[42]
New missions get added outside of major patches though. They're entirely serverside and so they can do that.
----
Infiniband can do more than just prevent lag |
Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.05.26 11:46:00 -
[43]
FW actually tries to integrate PvP and PvE.
For once NPC ships will distinguish between friend and foe and attack accordingly. No longer are all NPC's a target, some are support.
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Mr. Science & Trade Institute |
Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N.
Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.05.26 11:46:00 -
[44]
I consider myself a PvPer (notice that I don't say a good PvPer) but until they day that some really does give me their stuff when they quit, I have to make ISK the same as everyone else.
It sure would be nice if missioning and ratting weren't so deadly dull and predictable. I say nothing of mining, since for most, the dullness and predictability are actually an advantage (mining is a good way to make ISK if you have a furious hangover).
Missions should IMO have many fewer, much smarter, much more effective rats which vary their fits and use PvPesque tactics. They should have much less predictable goals & structure. There should be a non-trivial chance that a mission cannot be completed solo. Not all level 4 missions should require - or even be optimised for - battleships/commandships.
I realise that all this mandates a lot of work for the dev team, but come on guys, you've had years to realise that missions suck and that the way they're structured causes harm to the game.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Bronson Hughes
The. Conspiracy
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Posted - 2008.05.26 11:54:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Pottsey
Eve is not a PvP only game
Actually, yes it is. Anyone can do anything to anyone, anywhere, anytime they want to as long as they are willing to live with the consequences. There are those who chose to minimize their combat interaction with other players, but they are still playing a PvP game.
PvE and PvP are forever intertwined in EvE; you cannot have one without the other. Therefore, any new content is always both PvP and PvE content.
Faction cruisers can be used for PvE. Regardless of where they come from, people who participate in FW will be selling them to other people who do not participate in FW. The people who buy faction cruisers for PvE purposes are getting new PvE material.
There is an entire new region being introduced. Traders and haulers, both of which are typically PvE professions in that they both tend to avoid direct combat, will likely be flocking to the new region to make their fortunes at the expense of the new Factional Warriors. Certainly there will be lots of mining going on as well, but this is generally a higher risk activity and may not qualify as pure PvE.
In this new region, there will likely be non-FW related agents to run missions for. Granted, there is a higher risk of being jumped by PvPers in LoSec, especially a warzone, but it is new PvE nonetheless.
There may not necessarily be much, if anything, in terms of new traditional PvE missions being added, but you can hardly say that there is no new PvE content being added.
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"I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne |
Roguehalo
RH Ship Brokers
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Posted - 2008.05.26 11:55:00 -
[46]
more pvp = more stuff blown up = more pve content
can't wait for the fw inspired business boom 
I have to grind missions to get standing
But as a carebears carebear I gotta admit I don't wake up in the morning thinking 'omg I'm gonna do yet more missions today'
Eve is a totally integrated gaming environment and therefore ANY new content impacts on everybody one way or another.
The op needs to think a bit deeper
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Kerfira
University of Caille
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Posted - 2008.05.26 11:56:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Pottsey
Look at ME! I said again, LOOK AT ME! Why doesn't everything in EVE revolve around what I want? It's ME who's important. All expansions should be centered on MY needs. Why doesn't CCP listen to ME.....
Shortened your posts into one..... 
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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ramzahn
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Posted - 2008.05.26 12:18:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: Pottsey
Look at ME! I said again, LOOK AT ME! Why doesn't everything in EVE revolve around what I want? It's ME who's important. All expansions should be centered on MY needs. Why doesn't CCP listen to ME.....
Shortened your posts into one.....
You are quoting something that the OP never wrote? Is that right?
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Quelque Chose
New Eden Roller Disco Supply
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Posted - 2008.05.26 12:20:00 -
[49]
I feel worst for the guys in european dedicated mission- running alliances. Those guys are pretty much getting relentlessly boned right now.
Won't someone please think of the european dedicated mission- running alliances? 
___________________________________________
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Kuranta
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.05.26 12:28:00 -
[50]
You're right. Normally, the expansions would add some stuff for the PvP folks and some stuff for the PvE folks.
The main part of the upcoming expansion doesn't add anything for "hardcore" PvEers, true. But guess what? It doesn't really add something for the hardcore PvPers as well (guess why the alliances are moaning about not beeing able to participate directly).
This expansion is primalliry meant for those empire carebears which are open minded and want to check out some easy-to-get-in PvP. Now let's see....when did we have the last expansion for those players? - Right! Never!
Stop moaning, get some balls and have some FW PvP.
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Space Wanderer
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Posted - 2008.05.26 12:28:00 -
[51]
While I do not agree with the whineage of the OP, I think that he raised one significant point.
Now, don't get me wrong, I am not interested in FW, I am not testing it, and I don't plan to engage in it, so everything I say should be taken with more than a grain of salt, but I suppose that also gives me a more detached point of view.
If what I read here is correct, broadcasting to the overview a mission site is too much, and it really cuts mission runners out of any FW content. Mind you, I am not saying that mission runners should be invulnerable in their sites, but I really don't understand why the current probing mechanics shouldn't be applied to FW missions. I mean, when you enter into a system and you see a red in local (I suppose that people in opposed factions will be marked red) you might call your friends and start probing (or vice versa, you first probe him and then call your friends to jump on him on surprise).
If things are maintained like they have been described in this thread, I am certain that no mission runner will enter FW, because the mission really becomes just an excuse to PVP. Which might be in the intent of the devs, but in case it isn't I urge them to reconsider this part of the design. The current probing mechanics seem fair enough to me.
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TerrorBaBy
Universal-Corp
The Nexus Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.26 12:36:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Pottsey
ôhy don't you shield tank a Navy Mega about it?ö
Like many other people I donÆt enjoy PvP I find it boring and none rewarding. I play and pay for Eve due to the PvE content.
You find PvP unrewarding and boring, but you don't find monotonous and always the same PvE boring? Bit strange imo but meh, each to their own I suppose.
Do you even bother looking at the screen when doing missions in your passive tanked domi? I don't see how getting full aggro, releasing drones and watching them slaughter things can be much fun tbh...
_______________
Originally by: Constance Harme
It's like willfully getting into a car full of strangers and then being driven out to the woods and being shot.quote] |
Kransthow
Victory Not Vengeance
Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2008.05.26 12:37:00 -
[53]
Originally by: ramzahn
Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: Pottsey
Look at ME! I said again, LOOK AT ME! Why doesn't everything in EVE revolve around what I want? It's ME who's important. All expansions should be centered on MY needs. Why doesn't CCP listen to ME.....
Shortened your posts into one.....
You are quoting something that the OP never wrote? Is that right?
it's called a summary
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Roguehalo
RH Ship Brokers
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Posted - 2008.05.26 12:39:00 -
[54]
As a result of my previous reply to this post i decided to read as much as could find about FW
First thing I like about it is the opt-in/opt-out anytime you like thing.
I have problems, probably along with many other dedicated carebears, with the non-consensual nature of pvp in Eve. I know it's supposed to give Eve an 'edge' and all that stuff and actually the purpose of this post is not to rehash all those old arguments.
FW IS consensual and on that basis I'll prolly join up and throw a few extremely noobish caracals into the fray
Hell.......you never know I might even LIKE pvp
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Kuranta
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.05.26 12:41:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Space Wanderer
If things are maintained like they have been described in this thread, I am certain that no mission runner will enter FW, because the mission really becomes just an excuse to PVP. Which might be in the intent of the devs, but in case it isn't I urge them to reconsider this part of the design. The current probing mechanics seem fair enough to me.
Exactly. The point of FW missiones is PvP. You gain some Victory Points on the way, but it's all abut the PvP. With the current system, if he wants to avoid beeing pvped, he has to jump to a SS as soon as he sees you enter the system - and theres still a chance he'll be catched. But if you have to probe the mission runner out first, there is no way you'll catch him if he doesn't want you to - and that's not the point of FW. Thats what mission runners in regular low-sec do.
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Suboran
Victory Not Vengeance
Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2008.05.26 12:43:00 -
[56]
eve is a pvp game in every sence, those who just sit in high sec grinding missions all year are missing out. so get out there and kill stuff.
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Kuranta
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.05.26 12:44:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton
and now your talking some sense, heh having an amarr navy apoc with amarr navy fittings getting some nice extra power would be
Maybe some day :)
Linkage
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Rach NiKunni
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Posted - 2008.05.26 12:47:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Pottsey
ôThere's no such thing.ö
A mission that sends you to hunt players and has players sent after you is PvP.
and the problem is....... what exactly?
To be honest I'm totally missing your point. The current PVE content requires all the skill and attention span of gold fish. I think if CCP didn't try doing something to spice it up then they would be at serious risk of large numbers of their subscribers dying from boredom or quitting to go back to WOW.
To be honest I think that *all* the content in EVE should be created by the players. Ratting, missions, plexes and the rest should be completely eliminated and CCP should give new hooks to players for content.
Let players set up banks, insurance companies, stock markets, police, customs etc etc. YOu'd need some kinds of controls to stop trillion isk embezelment but that could be managed.
What about removing NPC ownership of 80% of the stations in high-sec and giving control of the station (and services) like manufacturing, medical etc. to the corp with the largest number of players with a head-office there....
There are probably thousands of ideas like that. Allow players to invent other meta-level items besides 5, for example. Allow player corps to sell their POS services publicly....
the list goes on and on and on. There are literally thousands of ways that CCP could be making EVE better by putting content into the hands of the players but they have choosen to try spicing up the game for their PVE players, probably becuause EVE is mind-numbingly boring if all you do is missions.
So the way I'm looking at it. EA is all about making missions better to strengthen CCP's business model but at the cost to the EVE community of wasting huge amounts of programming time on "fluff" when it could be put to use giving the players control over content.
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Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2008.05.26 12:53:00 -
[59]
ôYou find PvP unrewarding and boring, but you don't find monotonous and always the same PvE boring? Bit strange imo but meh, each to their own I suppose.ö
PvE isnÆt always monotonous and itÆs not always the same. PvE isnÆt just agent missions in star bases. You have Cosmos, expeditions and archaeology/hacking. There is more to PvE then just combat. I do archaeology I pick up and find bits of hidden info record it all and roleplay/theorise based on what I find. Like at
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=734344
Going to each dig site and getting more and new info is for me far more rewarding then blowing up some playerÆs ships, at least for me. Seeing the NPC story evolve and finding out history of the races and finding hidden raceÆs is all interesting. I rather do archaeology then rampaging though systems blowing up everything I see.
Yes running the same old lvl 4 missions is monotonous and boring. Which is why new ones need adding every so often.
____
ôToo many times. Too many times have the addictions of man destroyed the progress of ages. History is about to fail us again, and deny us the right to walk among you once more.ö |
Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2008.05.26 12:59:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Pottsey on 26/05/2008 13:00:37
Sphynx Stormlord put it best so going to copy his post.
ôPossibly the biggest problem with faction warfare is the hybrid content that possibly no one will want to do.
For example, the new missions, from a pvp'ers point of view, are clearly pve content. You accept a mission, go several (possibly lots of) jumps, warp to a deadspace gate, shoot/get shot at by a bunch of pathetic (but blobbing) npcs before completing an objective and flying back to ones agent to say 'thank-you sir, please may I have another'. Clearly pve!
However, from the pve'ers point of view, you first have to join a militia which means you can be shot by the other side at any time, then you have to go a number of jumps though pirate infested lowsec, then you have to warp to a mission which telegraphs your position to anyone wanting to shoot you; and they will come and shoot you while you are killing the npcs, who wont even consider them to be targets. Clearly pvp!ô
ô4 years of pve directed updates about time we had a pvp one.ö
No its 4 years of both PvE and PvP updates. Just doing updates on PvE or PvP is bad. Each update should have a mix.
____
ôToo many times. Too many times have the addictions of man destroyed the progress of ages. History is about to fail us again, and deny us the right to walk among you once more.ö |
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