Originally by: Pottsey

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ônew missions whit FW... thats PVEö
As far as I can tell the only new missions are PvP based.
A mission that that puts you at war against players, then sends you 15jumps into enemy controlled space where you are tagged on the overview so anyone can warp to you and kill you is not PvE. ThatÆs very much PvP.

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Originally by: Pottsey

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A mission that sends you against other players is PvP. The whole idea is to face other players.

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Originally by: Efdi

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Originally by: Pottsey

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A mission that sends you against other players is PvP. The whole idea is to face other players.

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Why don't you shield tank a Navy Mega about it?

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Originally by: Pottsey

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As far as I can tell the only new missions are PvP based.

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Originally by: Pottsey

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Blah Blah blah

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Originally by: Pottsey

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ôhy don't you shield tank a Navy Mega about it?ö
Like many other people I donÆt enjoy PvP I find it boring and none rewarding. I play and pay for Eve due to the PvE content.

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Originally by: game box

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Conceive a new life without boundaries, where murder, plunder, betrayal, and delusions of grandeur will lead you to boundless glory or to the brink of ruin.

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Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton

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that pve is oh so rewarding, i get like 20 million for killing ships that are set to orbit me at a set distance and do one damage type with 1 launcher and 1 gun, and die in like 30 seconds!!!

ZOMG!!!!! HALT THE PRESSES!!!! I OUTSMARTED A CRAPTACUALR NPC ALGORITHM!!!!

rage quit and gimme ur stuff already!

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Originally by: ramzahn

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Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton

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that pve is oh so rewarding, i get like 20 million for killing ships that are set to orbit me at a set distance and do one damage type with 1 launcher and 1 gun, and die in like 30 seconds!!!

ZOMG!!!!! HALT THE PRESSES!!!! I OUTSMARTED A CRAPTACUALR NPC ALGORITHM!!!!

rage quit and gimme ur stuff already!

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It's seems strange but the only EVE-players that, to me, show signs of *masssive* boredom are those prefering PvP, which is so exiting. Is this expansion added to assuage that boredom?

Apart from that I personally don't like the way a valid question from some player is handled be a *DEV* in such an offhand and 'lolling' manner. I was quite taken aback to be honest.

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Originally by: ramzahn

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It's seems strange but the only EVE-players that, to me, show signs of *masssive* boredom are those prefering PvP, which is so exiting. Is this expansion added to assuage that boredom?

Apart from that I personally don't like the way a valid question from some player is handled be a *DEV* in such an offhand and 'lolling' manner. I was quite taken aback to be honest.

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Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab

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I'm confused...

This expansion isn't targeted at people doing PVP, as we're pretty much all in alliances and busy doing our own thing. And according to the OP it's not for the PVE'ers.

So did CCP make a mistake with this expansion, not realizing that they were in fact targeting a non-existent demographic?

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Originally by: Pottsey

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Edited by: Pottsey on 26/05/2008 11:13:16
ôdon't get it. Patches (with or without PvE content) only get out every 6 months, so there's a period of 6 months where you have "no new PvE content" twice a year, every year, always.ö
In the past we always had new stuff for PvE people every 6months ish or less, there was never a gap longer then 6months without new things for PvE. Now with EA there could be a gap as long as 1 year.

ThatÆs the problem, 6months since the last PvE content, 6months till the next PvE content = 1 year with nothing new. If only a dev could confirm there is some PvE content that doesnÆt involve PvP due soon.



ôThere will be PVE content in the new expansion as you can run missions for the new militas.ö
As I tried to explain before putting someone against players with some PvE elements is still PvP. Those new militias missions are no interest to many PvE people due to the PvP.
PvP with some NPC parts is still PvP.


EDIT: Just to be clear. Content for PvE people doest have to be new missions, new ships, skill and stuff that can be used for both PvP and in PvE without forceing PvP is all ok.

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Originally by: Pottsey

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Eve is not a PvP only game

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Originally by: Pottsey

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Look at ME! I said again, LOOK AT ME! Why doesn't everything in EVE revolve around what I want? It's ME who's important. All expansions should be centered on MY needs. Why doesn't CCP listen to ME.....

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Originally by: CCP Wrangler

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EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.

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Originally by: Kerfira

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Originally by: Pottsey

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Look at ME! I said again, LOOK AT ME! Why doesn't everything in EVE revolve around what I want? It's ME who's important. All expansions should be centered on MY needs. Why doesn't CCP listen to ME.....

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Shortened your posts into one.....

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Originally by: Pottsey

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ôhy don't you shield tank a Navy Mega about it?ö
Like many other people I donÆt enjoy PvP I find it boring and none rewarding. I play and pay for Eve due to the PvE content.

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Originally by: Constance Harme

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It's like willfully getting into a car full of strangers and then being driven out to the woods and being shot.quote]

Originally by: ramzahn

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Originally by: Kerfira

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Originally by: Pottsey

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Look at ME! I said again, LOOK AT ME! Why doesn't everything in EVE revolve around what I want? It's ME who's important. All expansions should be centered on MY needs. Why doesn't CCP listen to ME.....

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Shortened your posts into one.....

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You are quoting something that the OP never wrote? Is that right?

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Originally by: Space Wanderer

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If things are maintained like they have been described in this thread, I am certain that no mission runner will enter FW, because the mission really becomes just an excuse to PVP. Which might be in the intent of the devs, but in case it isn't I urge them to reconsider this part of the design. The current probing mechanics seem fair enough to me.

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Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton

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and now your talking some sense, heh having an amarr navy apoc with amarr navy fittings getting some nice extra power would be

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Originally by: Pottsey

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ôThere's no such thing.ö
A mission that sends you to hunt players and has players sent after you is PvP.

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Originally by: Pottsey

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Edited by: Pottsey on 26/05/2008 12:56:42
ôYou find PvP unrewarding and boring, but you don't find monotonous and always the same PvE boring? Bit strange imo but meh, each to their own I suppose.ö
PvE isnÆt always monotonous and itÆs not always the same. PvE isnÆt just agent missions in star bases. You have Cosmos, expeditions and archaeology/hacking. There is more to PvE then just combat. I do archaeology I pick up and find bits of hidden info record it all and roleplay/theorise based on what I find. Like at
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=734344
Going to each dig site and getting more and new info is for me far more rewarding then blowing up some playerÆs ships, at least for me. Seeing the NPC story evolve and finding out history of the races and finding hidden raceÆs is all interesting. I rather do archaeology then rampaging though systems blowing up everything I see.

Yes running the same old lvl 4 missions is monotonous and boring. Which is why new ones need adding every so often.



ôeve is a pvp game in every sence, those who just sit in high sec grinding missions all year are missing out. so get out there and kill stuff.ö
We are not missing out going out and killing people is not what everyone finds fun. We donÆt all get a thrill from it. People are not the same Eve is better off haveing content for diffrent people like it did in the past. Haveing stuff for PvE and PvP is much better then just one or the other.

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Originally by: Kuranta

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You're right. Normally, the expansions would add some stuff for the PvP folks and some stuff for the PvE folks.

The main part of the upcoming expansion doesn't add anything for "hardcore" PvEers, true. But guess what? It doesn't really add something for the hardcore PvPers as well (guess why the alliances are moaning about not beeing able to participate directly).

This expansion is primalliry meant for those empire carebears which are open minded and want to check out some easy-to-get-in PvP. Now let's see....when did we have the last expansion for those players? - Right! Never!

Stop moaning, get some balls and have some FW PvP.

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Originally by: CCP Dionysus

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You pay and play eve for PvE.

Othere pay and play eve for PvP.

All those new missions and things we put in - totally useless and boring for those PvP players.

We like to share the lub.

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Originally by: CCP Subscription

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I'm sorry Sir your European I'll have to charge you 58% extra

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Originally by: Venkul Mul

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I think the implementation is bad.

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Originally by: Pottsey

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Edited by: Pottsey on 26/05/2008 13:15:04
ôIf you want new missions go PVP i can guarantee its different every time. ô
How many times do I have to explain I donÆt like PvP. I donÆt get any rewards from it. I am a PvE player. I keep trying PvP and evey time I give up bored. Many other PvE players are the same.

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Originally by: Pottsey

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You might not like it but Eve is very much a PvE game with lots of people who play it for PvE. Its not PvP only game.
Laugh as much as you like but what I am saying is true unless I missed something about there being PvE planed new content. In which case point it out please and make a constructive post.

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Originally by: Nicholas Barker

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although i like all your muppets doing missions all day getting nice loot for us to buy off of you, if you all started pvping there'd be alot less stuff on the market, and what is there would be alot more expensive.

However, eve is not a pve game. For it to have any real pve content the AI would have to be more complex than "go to optimal range, fire, run repairs ALWAYS (regardless of if i'm getting shot at, MWD back to centre of belt if i move away too far"

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Originally by: Haakon Jarl

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Muppets


EVE is split in two. PVE PVP 50-50.

I'd like to see CCP ban mining and industry and then we could see how you would enjoy your counter strike in space

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Originally by: Dark Shikari

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The problem with killing Jesus is he always just respawns 3 days later anyways.

Originally by: Haakon Jarl

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It's embarrassing to read how the OP gets all type of immature replies from people with nothing better to do. Rule of thumb, if you don't have anything nice to say, keep your mouth shut.

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Originally by: Haakon Jarl

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Originally by: Nicholas Barker

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although i like all your muppets doing missions all day getting nice loot for us to buy off of you, if you all started pvping there'd be alot less stuff on the market, and what is there would be alot more expensive.

However, eve is not a pve game. For it to have any real pve content the AI would have to be more complex than "go to optimal range, fire, run repairs ALWAYS (regardless of if i'm getting shot at, MWD back to centre of belt if i move away too far"

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Muppets


EVE is split in two. PVE PVP 50-50.

I'd like to see CCP ban mining and industry and then we could see how you would enjoy your counter strike in space

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Originally by: Hanneshannes

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Well, I guess everyone fills a spot somewhere.

The industry ppl make ships, the PvE ppl bring money into the game nd the PvPers take it all and blow it to pieces :D

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Originally by: El Yatta

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Mining and industry arent PVE, they're PVP content. You have to compete with players for decent belts and to sell your goods. You have to work together (and thus against) others. You have to compete for the best sell price on your creations, know your markets, outsmart your enemies. Industry is entirely part of the PVP side of the game, even more so at the endgame nullsec end of the spectrum.

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Originally by: Ranamar

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I disagree. Mining and industry are only PvP if you want them to be. It is perfectly viable, if not optimal to treat the market like a buyer's market and ignore that there are other players buying your stuff on the other end as opposed to some amorphous NPC organization. Some people like micromanaging the market. Other people don't. Those who don't are generally willing to let those who do make a profit off their laziness. (After all, if they're not willing to put in the effort to get that extra money, someone else is perfectly capable of taking it themselves...) I'd even argue they're not really PvE, to the degree that the real purpose of a mining op, in my experience is to (1) make cash, and (2) hang out. This probably changes a bit in low/null sec, but that's what escorts to mining ops for: so the miners don't have to worry about getting ganked. Thus, really, the non-combat PvP is largely in those who play the market.

Perhaps, to concede a little point that it's PvE, the difference between miners and manufacturers who either treat it like a buyer's market or just sell the stuff for whatever price they think it's wort and the ones who play the market is the difference between running missions in high sec and running them in low/null sec. One is easy, safe, and arguably suboptimal most of the time, whereas the other requires a lot more work and concentration for somewhat increased rewards.

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Originally by: Pottsey

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ôSince it's not a PVE game, don't expect overwhelming content designed for it.ö
Why not? ItÆs been getting PvE content for PvE players for 4 years. Why stop now? If itÆs not a PvE game why add so much PvE content over the years for PvE only players? CCP have been treating Eve as a PvE game for 4 years.

If Eve is not a PvE game why add in PvE stuff like Cosmos? Face the facts Eve is both a PvE and PvP game. Many players only fall into one of the two categoryÆs.

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Originally by: Pottsey

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That’s my whole point there are others in the game apart from me and CCP has stopped new content for the large PvE group. There are a large amount of PvE pilots who have had new PvE content on a regular basis for 4 years and now are not getting content. CCP are not meant to run Eve for me, they run it for the players and a large amount of the players are PvE players. Not given those players new content means the large group of players risk getting bored and quit. Which is bad for Eve in the long team.
Any online game which stops supporting and giving new content to one large group of players will lose those players. This is how other online games have been killed.

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Originally by: Pottsey

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It’s not just the PvE who are getting nothing this expansions but the alliance PvPers are pretty much getting nothing bar a few cruisers.

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Originally by: Pottsey

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PvE elements mixed in with PvP is still PvP. Most PvE players are not interested in PvP with a few PvE elements. The expansion seems flawed as its focusing on content that the PvP and PvE for the most part don’t want. PvPer’s don’t want to go around doing missions with PvE elements and PvE’s don’t want to go around doing missions with PvP.

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Originally by: Pottsey

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FW in its current stat has a strong chance of going the same way as lvl 5 missions. All the PvE’s give it a go then abandon it as a waste of time after a few weeks. Time well tell if I am wrong or right. The concept of FW is good, the way its implanted I well I am not so sure about.

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Originally by: ramzahn

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Reality? In a computer game?

Do you think that's air you're breathing here?

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Originally by: Cadela Fria

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First of all, people can say whatever the hell they want to.

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Quote:

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Second of all, please apply your little pedestal argument to the OP then, because that isn't particularly nice either.

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Quote:

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Third of all, the reason people respond they way they do, is quite simple because the OP is full of it and has no grasp on reality.."No new PvE content rabblerabblerabble, will get bored rabblerabble, PvP will grind to halt cause PvE'ers stop making money for PvP rabble rabble rabble".

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Originally by: Haakon Jarl

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I agree, it all depends on how they say it. In the past, people used to describe EVE as a mature mmo right? Today its all like 'omg adapt or quit-can I have your stuff-gbtw-lol muppet'. Not very mature, and if you dislike something, there are far more sophisticated and efficient ways of saying it than 'muppet'.

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Originally by: Haakon Jarl

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Really? The OP asked for PVE and he got jumped by a bandwagon of loud brutes.

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Originally by: Haakon Jarl

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Oh I see. Is that how you do it in real life? I suspect not. Whenever someone makes a statment that is wrong you lol at them and call them a n00b or muppet? Just because he/she is wrong doesnt mean they deserve to get flamed.

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Originally by: Haakon Jarl

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At one time, the average age of the EVE player was 20 something, I would very much like to see CCP release some new stats. Of corse age is not everything, people from some countries are just more immature and rude than others.

Anyone with experience from x-box live knows who I'm talking about.

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Originally by: Cadela Fria

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Maturity is an arbitrary term and is fully dependant on your own personal view on what constitutes "maturity". There are many WAYS to say anything, and I agree that some result in more credibility than others, however this is again subject to perception, and frankly sometimes just saying the plainly obvious in a plain and inconsiderate tone, has merits.

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I will however agree with you on that fact that if you're going to disagree with someone, at least say why, instead of just calling them names.

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The OP accused CCP of leaving out PvE'ers in favor of PvP'ers and doing so deliberately, like they actually put thoughts into it, along the lines of "Screw the PvE'ers! This is a PvP game!".

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This is simply not the case, and the expansion is the way it is, and to just magically whip up a batch of "special PvE" material is not only silly, it is outright impossible, because what constitutes what he wants? Say they went for it and got it wrong? The whole thing starts over again..It is just not realistic, nor is it a fair accusation to even make.

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I don't see how this applies to me in particular as I have called him none of these things.

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However, sometimes the level of..how to put it..stupidity? No too harsh. The level if ignorance? Yeah that works..Sometimes the level of ignorance is at such a level and has been repeated so often that all you really have left to say is: "You're an idiot"..It's all been said and done so many times, trying to steer people towards thinking before speaking, that it becomes pointless to try again.

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As you say..Age isn't everything.

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Originally by: Pottsey

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blahblablahblah bla blah blah blah

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Originally by: Spaztick

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Edited by: Spaztick on 26/05/2008 09:40:50
Sure.

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Originally by: Pottsey

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Edited by: Pottsey on 26/05/2008 15:11:58

Some of you guys have a very strange view on PvE, its no just high-sec agent missions. ThatÆs as bad as me me saying PvP is just gate blob camps.

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Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab

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The average player quits after 7 months or so, right?...

Tell me, how many of those that quit early do you think tried PvP? How many of those that stayed do you think only does PvE?

FW might very well become the most important factor in increasing player retention rate. I know I wouldn't have lasted that much past 7 months if I hadn't entered a corp that was planning on moving out to 0.0.

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Originally by: Pottsey

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I am a PvE player. I keep trying PvP and evey time I give up bored. Many other PvE players are the same.

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Originally by: xena zena

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Ok how about, the stuff the OP is crying about wanting is more solo-play anti-group content that he can grind to get better epics for his character, err gear for his ships.

I don't see CCP spending tons of development time on things along those lines, things that are not directly supporting industry/building/market or pvp.

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Originally by: Cadela Fria

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PvE were given invention, mining barges, t2 mining barges, capital industrial ships, [....] POS'es (they're used for PvP too I know, but they are PvE), Moon mining

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Originally by: Jack Gilligan

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There is literally nothing there to make anyone happy. Those in empire are better off skipping the "war" and continuing to run L4 missions. Those in 0.0 literally have no part (unless they want to go grief the FW sites). About the only player that this will make happy are the lowsec pirate corps, who will get at least a temporary surge of new victims.

Empyrean Age has definitely shaken my confidence in the management at CCP. This expansion is a HUGE mistake, and a waste of time and effort. It will cost them subs since more or less everyone will have to wait at least another 6 months for content, totaling a year since Trinity, which itself was basically a graphics update with little new content.

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Originally by: Tippia

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Originally by: Cadela Fria

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PvE were given invention, mining barges, t2 mining barges, capital industrial ships, [....] POS'es (they're used for PvP too I know, but they are PvE), Moon mining

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Excuse me?! How on earth are any of these PvE? All of them are designed to give you a competetive advantage over other players – thus, they're all PvP.

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Originally by: xena zena

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Ok how about, the stuff the OP is crying about wanting is more solo-play anti-group content that he can grind to get better epics for his character, err gear for his ships.

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Originally by: Katja Shade

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Originally by: Pottsey

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I am a PvE player. I keep trying PvP and evey time I give up bored. Many other PvE players are the same.

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Hm ... I wonder if this post will be censored
Also, better be posting with an alt.

I always wonder how the people that despise all forms of PvE vocally in this forum make their cash for all the nice PvP ships they loose - with about 50% of modules destroyed on each kill, there must be quite some PvE going on for some

More on topic though: Pottsey, I'm totally with you - although I sometimes PvP I do a lot more PvE. But I don't bother much anymore, because it recently seems that CCP doesn't have a single (vocal) PvE advocate on board. I find dev and ISD responses mostly echo the general "PvP or gtfo / its a pvp game" message which is no surprise, as any such system seems to strive towards the same things.

I find it laughable how in Eve its carebears vs. pvp'ers when other business models manage to cater to a much larger target audience (just an example, Guild Wars, which caters to both factions nicely (= more players) and which also, since it came up, offers PvP at the click of a button - NOT having to float in space for three hours finding targets. An activity which some people seem to enjoy for strange reasons.

I've kind of accepted that PvE will be left in the future as the bastard child of Eve, a partial marketing gimmick of sort and a neccessary "evil" for the PvP ships to be financed, because the majority of these who make the game seemingly have the same attitude towards it. Currently I still have a niche in it, if it gets further down that road then I'll be off to some other game. Lots of stuff on the horizon.

CCP's agenda shows, INHO, clearly in FW, which is as far as I understand it an attempt to get more life into low sec. And just like Pottsey, me, and a good bunch of other mostly PvE players, we probbaly won't PvP out of the sudden because an agent sends us into low sec. I talk to my friends, and this type of player won't just fit a HAC and go out and PvP, this type of player is sitting on his wallet which was painfully grind together - and if CCP would read their own economists reports, they whould realize how many players like these are arround.

Hence, FW will be epic fail at getting people into low sec. FW will be populated by those who already PvP - pirates and alliance alts. If you want to get empire players, PvE players etc. into low sec and PvPing, the best bet is to fix insurance, lower overall ship and module prices in relation to ore value and rat bounties (so it does NOT take three weeks of grind to replace a lost T2 ship) and provide free small ships (frigs, dessies etc.) with template fittings at the click of a button to all players. THAT, and nothing else, might make a good number of PvE people check out PvP.

Or, since it came up, create an arena of sorts. Queue the stupid outcries, but nobody is forcing anyone to use it.

So far my $0.02.

I would like to close with the following preemptive remarks:

- I'm not yet leaving
- No you can't have my stuff
- I don't care how aforementioned GW isn't a real MMO
- Don't even mention WoW
- Don't bother replying if you have nothing to say but some sort of cliche/hookline/mantra/carebear joke/hello kitty line/other expression of arrogance etc. cause it gets really, really old. Arguments and rational replies welcome however.

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Originally by: El Yatta

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This basically means l3 and l4 in highsec gone. PvE content is in space, ergo it should always be exposed to non-consensual PVP to a reasonable degree, at all times.

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Originally by: Katja Shade

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Also, I was waiting for this - there, someone said it. Mining is PvP!! The hulk is the greatest kicka** PvP ship of all times!!!

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Originally by: Tippia

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The problem seems to be (and please correct me if I'm wrong) that you assume that PvP = shooting other players. In EVE, PvP is much larger than that, and market games in particular makes up a huge part of the other PvP interactions this game offers.

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Originally by: Grim Vandal

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In my opinion it is a great shame that eve has risk free lv 4 missions in high sec for noob corp pilots.

If the above would NOT be the case this whole thread could be laughed off but sadly ccp seems to care about their carebears ...
the reason they care so much about these cowards is cuz they pay good old $$$ ... that's it.

IMO remove missions from eve and make it the cold harsh universe us PVPers dreamed about since beta.

To try to please both pvpers and pve people just screams COMPROMISE = which in the end neither pleases any playstyle. jack of all trades comes to mind ...

again imo it is a BIG shame to even talk about such bu.llshi.tt !

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Originally by: Pottsey

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Not even came across new missions. Out of the so called 100+ missions from 6months ago me and my corp mates have come across 2 new missions.

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Originally by: Pottsey

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You might not like it but Eve is very much a PvE game

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Originally by: Iyanah

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Originally by: Pottsey

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You might not like it but Eve is very much a PvE game

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I don't think you're playing the same game as us. the market and trading is PvP - you're competing against other players, mining is PvP, you're trying to get more resources than other people so you can buy more phat lewts, etc.

mission running is mostly PvE, but has PvP elements (probers taking wrecks, lowsec people probing and podding runners).

the new content contains a large number of missions, PvE content, but making it more like lowsec mission running, where you have a chance to be locaded by enemy probers and killed.

we ALWAYS knew factional warfare meant more players-shooting-players, how are you surprised by this?

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Originally by: New Hampshire

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is it true that the factional warfare will take place almost exclusively in low sec? That's a huge balance issue, it means that you'll need to be on the constant lookout for players.

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Originally by: Pottsey

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After posting in the game dev to try and figure out what PvE content there is due in FW it appears there is no PvE content in FW which is a big shock. By the time FW comes out it will be 6months since the last expansion and last PvE content. If the next add-on follows the same timeline of 6 months and assuming it has PvE thatÆs a 1 year gap. Even if the next expansion is in less then 6 months thats still a very long time of no new PvE content. If it doesnÆt have PvE in the next addon thats more then 1 year.

Anyone else unhappy about this?
CCP have always in every single expansion catered to both PvP and PvE. Never have PvE people had to go for such a large gap with no new content. We donÆt pay a monthly subscription to go 1 year without new content. In the 4+years of playing Eve there has always been new PvE to do.

No matter how you sugar coat it FW is PvP and no interested to many PvE pilots. Most of the things PvE pilots donÆt like about PvP is still in FW. Building a bridge between PvE and PvP is all good, but not at the expense of no new PvE content. Its just as bad as an expansion with PvE only content. There should always be a mix of the two.
I always thought Eve was full of PvE only people. Eve is not a PvP only games. Surly more PvE players are unhappy about this.

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Originally by: Kathryn Dougans

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Originally by: New Hampshire

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is it true that the factional warfare will take place almost exclusively in low sec? That's a huge balance issue, it means that you'll need to be on the constant lookout for players.

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It's in lowsec, yes. (currently - who knows about future?)

If you're involved with factional warfare, you have to be on the lookout for the opposing militia players. How is having to watch for non-militia players with hostile intentions any different really?

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Originally by: Pottsey

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ôhy don't you shield tank a Navy Mega about it?ö
Like many other people I donÆt enjoy PvP I find it boring and none rewarding. I play and pay for Eve due to the PvE content.

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Originally by: Evil Thug

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I wear pink panties.

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Originally by: Pottsey

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No I am complaining about the lack of new PvE content. PvE missions based around PvP is what I consider PvP content as your fighting other players.

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Originally by: Pottsey

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Grinding for better epics/gear I thought only you PvP guys did that :) Always trying to out do each other.

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Originally by: xena zena

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haha... ratting to get the iskies to buy pvp stuff in 0.0 is worlds different then running a level 4 agent in empire in an npc corp, in mentality of the player and mechanic of the game-play.

Ok how about, the stuff the OP is crying about wanting is more solo-play anti-group content that he can grind to get better epics for his character, err gear for his ships.

I don't see CCP spending tons of development time on things along those lines, things that are not directly supporting industry/building/market or pvp. Purely PvE agents and single-player content is NOT what EvE is. :P

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Originally by: Grarr Dexx

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No risk, no isk. Live with it.

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Originally by: CCP Mitnal

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Cleaned

Do not troll based on having a different perspective to someone else's playing style. We are all playing the same game, just in a variety of ways, it's what helps make EVE unique.

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Originally by: Venkul Mul

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Originally by: Grarr Dexx

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No risk, no isk. Live with it.

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Wrong quote, in this cas it is "Plenty of risk, still no isk"

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Originally by: Malcanis

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Originally by: Venkul Mul

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Originally by: Grarr Dexx

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No risk, no isk. Live with it.

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Wrong quote, in this cas it is "Plenty of risk, still no isk"

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God forbid that someone should do something that doesn't make a profit.

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Originally by: Grarr Dexx

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I can be all the carebear I want in alliance 0.0, tons of ISK, you should try it!

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Originally by: Riho

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new missions whit FW... thats PVE

do some research before dropping more carebear tears :)

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Originally by: Grarr Dexx

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Originally by: Malcanis

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Originally by: Venkul Mul

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Originally by: Grarr Dexx

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No risk, no isk. Live with it.

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Wrong quote, in this cas it is "Plenty of risk, still no isk"

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God forbid that someone should do something that doesn't make a profit.

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I can be all the carebear I want in alliance 0.0, tons of ISK, you should try it!

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Originally by: Pottsey

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ôBut realize that HighSec PvE is only one facet of Eve, and will not get attention every single expansion.ö
Yes I know PvE isnÆt all in high sec but PvE has always had new stuff in every expansion. Why not this one? I donÆt count FW as PvE as there is far too many PvP parts to it. The whole thing is geared towards PvP. As I said before NPC content with lots of PvP is still PvP content. If the content involves PvP pretty much all the time then it cannot be classed as PvE.

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Originally by: Pottsey

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Edited by: Pottsey on 27/05/2008 13:44:07
ôPlayers fly into environment and claim it for their faction.ö
Sounds like PvEö
That only sounds like PvE as your missing out most of the parts.
Its playerÆs flys into an environment with other player waiting for them. Both players groups try to earn more victory points then each other to claim the sector and try to blow each other up. You appear on overview so players can warp to you. Sounds like PvP to me.
Just because there are NPCÆs and an environment there it does not mean its PvE. NPCÆs fighting along with players it still PvP.

FW is like an arena/battleground. ItÆs an arena with NPCÆs but itÆs all about PvP.




ôJust a thought: FW is a pretty big release, right?ö
From an end user content point of view no itÆs pretty tiny in my mind. ItÆs barely counts as an expansion. I dont think CCP have ever bought out an expansion this small before. Unless there are parts to EA we have not seen.


EDIT:
ôso for this one expansion, other projects fell by the wayside...? Not that big a deal.ö
It is a big deal, a small amount of content over 8 to 12 months is a big deal.

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Originally by: Lance Fighter

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This is either a troll or a noob... Ill take the noob route.

Originally by: Growler667

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If you want PvE, play WoW. That's not meant as a dig - WoW's PvE blows Eve's away, because it's a PvE-centred game. Eve isn't.

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Originally by: Pottsey

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ôand er do they just do nothing with claimed environment?ö
As I said before just because there is an environment and NPCÆs does not mean its PvE. Its very much PvP.



ôI think not. You are missing the ramifications of a faction claiming a system and it's presence there.ö
Speaking of which just what are the ramifications. What changes? As far as I can see there are zero ramifications for those not in FW as for those in FW well they get what?

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Originally by: Lance Fighter

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This is either a troll or a noob... Ill take the noob route.

Originally by: Katja Shade

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Originally by: Jack Gilligan

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There is literally nothing there to make anyone happy. Those in empire are better off skipping the "war" and continuing to run L4 missions. Those in 0.0 literally have no part (unless they want to go grief the FW sites). About the only player that this will make happy are the lowsec pirate corps, who will get at least a temporary surge of new victims.

Empyrean Age has definitely shaken my confidence in the management at CCP. This expansion is a HUGE mistake, and a waste of time and effort. It will cost them subs since more or less everyone will have to wait at least another 6 months for content, totaling a year since Trinity, which itself was basically a graphics update with little new content.

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QFT, thats EXACTLY what I think. Well said.

With one exception: I believe it will actually boost their subscriber numbers. Not because its any good, but because FW will make a VERY nice marketing vehicle, allows Eve on paper to compete with Warhammer Online or such. On paper, no more.

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Originally by: Jack Gilligan

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Originally by: Katja Shade

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Originally by: Jack Gilligan

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There is literally nothing there to make anyone happy. Those in empire are better off skipping the "war" and continuing to run L4 missions. Those in 0.0 literally have no part (unless they want to go grief the FW sites). About the only player that this will make happy are the lowsec pirate corps, who will get at least a temporary surge of new victims.

Empyrean Age has definitely shaken my confidence in the management at CCP. This expansion is a HUGE mistake, and a waste of time and effort. It will cost them subs since more or less everyone will have to wait at least another 6 months for content, totaling a year since Trinity, which itself was basically a graphics update with little new content.

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QFT, thats EXACTLY what I think. Well said.

With one exception: I believe it will actually boost their subscriber numbers. Not because its any good, but because FW will make a VERY nice marketing vehicle, allows Eve on paper to compete with Warhammer Online or such. On paper, no more.

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FW sounds good, yes. Until you realize that it's aimed at a niche that doesn't exist and by blocking out existing pvp'ers, it fails completely.

Frankly, CCP should FORGET the idea of "pvp lite". It doesn't exist, and cannot exist, unless they are willing to create instances, or roll CONCORD out into lowsec.

Instead, stick to enhancing PVP as it exists.

Yes, I do think this "expansion" is blatantly aimed at new players, ignoring the players that CCP has. To the point that I almost wonder if CCP has secretly hired John Smedley of SOE for his "expertise" and "success" in enhancing Star Wars Galaxies. Uggh, I hope earnestly that NO ONE at CCP is a former SOE employee, but I digress...

It's just a really, REALLY bad design. All FW does is offer a carrot for people to come out of highsec into lowsec. It's essentially mission running, just into areas where you aren't as protected as in highsec... For rewards that do not equal the risk. Unless the rewards are obscenely better than L4 missions in highsec, FW will not be worth the risk, especially since there is nothing to stop camping of the static sites. Pirates won't even need to probe, the sites will be bookmarked within hours.

What I wonder, is what CCP will do when the expansion flops. Will they overreact, start nerfing all over the damn place (such as reducing L4 payouts so as to force people into lowsec) or will they place CONCORD bubbles in lowsec? Both actions would be horrible ideas.

When it flops, what CCP needs to do is go back to the drawing board and redesign FW from the ground up to be a new element that integrates with ALL pvp, including 0.0.

The reason why this expansion upsets me so much is I've been through this before, in Star Wars Galaxies. When the developer of "your game" gets WOW envy to the point of ignoring their existing players in favor of that pot of gold at the end of the WOW rainbow, watch out. Is CCP there yet? No, but Empyrean Age IS a step in that direction. When it fails will CCP realize their mistake and pull back? Or will they do what SOE did with the "Combat Downgrade" and conclude they failed because they didn't go FAR ENOUGH and come up with a "New Game Experience"?

We all know what SOE did. Will CCP prove wiser?

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Originally by: Pottsey

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ôJust a thought: FW is a pretty big release, right?ö
From an end user content point of view no itÆs pretty tiny in my mind. ItÆs barely counts as an expansion.

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Originally by: Pottsey

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ôso for this one expansion, other projects fell by the wayside...? Not that big a deal.ö
It is a big deal, a small amount of content over 8 to 12 months is a big deal.

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Originally by: baltec1

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This is nothing compared to the NGE..

I am not losing anything, they are not changing the combat system, they are not removing penaties to dieing, they are not destroying the market, they are not removing 2/3 of the skills and they are not mass nerfing.

All they are doing is putting in some new content for the players to have fun with and a way for small corps with new players to get pvp experience without all the super alliences hotdropping carriers on top of them along with a good backstory.

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Originally by: Malcanis

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Originally by: Venkul Mul

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Originally by: Grarr Dexx

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No risk, no isk. Live with it.

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Wrong quote, in this case it is "Plenty of risk, still no isk"

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God forbid that someone should do something that doesn't make a profit.

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Originally by: Celeste Coeval

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PvE

Player versus environment.

Players fly into environment and claim it for their faction.

Sounds like PvE

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Originally by: Venkul Mul

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New capability to split rewards between up to 10 people, enabling fleets to do PVE together.

ok (when it willl work)

New, enhanced rewards that make L5 missions worth doing.

really? little problem, it will reset the mission autobalancing system, so lowering the reward till they have been run enough times (note so far the autobalancing has not make them worthwile after several months, guess what will happen now ).

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Quote:

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New NPC corps offering new kinds of missions with new kinds of rewards.

Unless there are new NPC coprs outside militia, it is a mixed PvP/PvE thing with a very strong PvP bent

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Originally by: Hugh Ruka

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trying to look big ang though (sp?).

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Originally by: Manic Smile

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There are no new missions in highsec.
There are no new modules.
There are no new highsec scanning sites.
There are no new trade mechanics.
There are no new asteroids or mining gear.
There are no new production based content.
There are no new invention mechanics.

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Originally by: Joe Starbreaker

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Originally by: Manic Smile

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There are no new missions in highsec.
There are no new modules.
There are no new highsec scanning sites.
There are no new trade mechanics.
There are no new asteroids or mining gear.
There are no new production based content.
There are no new invention mechanics.

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When y'all ask for "new" PVE content it sounds like what you really want is old PVE content. The expansion includes wild new types of missions with a new risk/reward calculation. The expansion enables corp/gang PVE by correcting L5 mission rewards and enabling 10-way reward splits. The expansion adds new LP stores with new faction ships, and may very well include new modules and implants. It creates a lot of fascinating new opportunities for producers and traders that go way beyond the new Amarr frigate and the covops invention changes. What you seem to really want is nothing to change, and that's why you're doomed to disappointment.

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Originally by: CCP Casqade

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Please refrain from making assumptions on game mechanics and then presenting them as facts before testing them yourself.

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Originally by: Manic Smile

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No one does lvl 5s for the PvP and no one is going to go PvE things that result in a loss of isk on avg so who does lvl 5 missions? The rewards do not benefit the risk at all.

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Originally by: Vaal Erit

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I guess that CCP cares more about the PvP side of the game than the PvE side. Which is logical since CCP thinks of EVE as a PvP game and all. I find it hilarious that you are telling CCP what EVE is and what they should do with it. lol @ you, lol.

Please quit Pottsey, you are probably the worst, annoying, whiny carebear of them all (wait no I can think of a few as whiny, see CSM forum)

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Originally by: Joe Starbreaker

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Originally by: Venkul Mul

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New capability to split rewards between up to 10 people, enabling fleets to do PVE together.

ok (when it willl work)

New, enhanced rewards that make L5 missions worth doing.

really? little problem, it will reset the mission autobalancing system, so lowering the reward till they have been run enough times (note so far the autobalancing has not make them worthwile after several months, guess what will happen now ).

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Not sure what all that means. Nevertheless, the point is that CCP is giving us level 5 missions with this expansion. They may already be in the game, but nobody runs them because the rewards aren't in line with the time and number of people needed. The new expansion enables larger fleets to run missions together and increases the payouts, with the goal of making L5 missions practical. That's a major boost to PVE.

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Originally by: Joe Starbreaker

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Originally by: Venkul Mul

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New NPC corps offering new kinds of missions with new kinds of rewards.

Unless there are new NPC coprs outside militia, it is a mixed PvP/PvE thing with a very strong PvP bent

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Hoping you are honest and not trolling:

New corps = semi true, as the militias are more alliances than corps

New kind of missions = ok, even if I repeat, it is more PvP than PvE

New kind of reward = no, unless you consider the ranks a reward

Originally by: Pottsey

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ôEVE isnt a PVE game to start with.
Think about it, PVE in this game is the same set of missions we have all done a million times.ö
Yes it is PvE thatÆs why it has stuff like Cosmos.
PvE is not just a set of missions that you have done a missions times.

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Originally by: Xioden Acap

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I'm still wondering where most of the PVE content promised in trinity went to.

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Originally by: Cheyenne Shadowborn

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Originally by: Xioden Acap

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I'm still wondering where most of the PVE content promised in trinity went to.

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There IS a black hole in the middle of the Eve galaxy

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Originally by: Pottsey

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As for the person talking about my quoting style I have been doing this for over 15years not going to stop now.

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Originally by: Pottsey

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Edited by: Pottsey on 28/05/2008 13:30:29
ônot only that, there is new PvE content in the expansion, its just all based around a pvp zone. (go here, kill that, try not get ganked).ö
If itÆs based around PvP then itÆs not PvE. The whole idea is to have two sides of players fighting for victory points. ThatÆs PvP. That why there is a scoreboard between the players.



ôSo for 15 years you've been unable to adapt and use quote button functionality that got introduced sometimes back in the late 90's?ö
You do realise your having a go at me for quoting text in the correct way according to the English language. Quoting with the ô symbol like ôthe quick brown foxö is the correct way to quote.
Anyway quoting like this has become part of my writing style on forums and I find it easier to read and so do some others. For the most part the only people who suddenly donÆt like it are the ones who where proven wrong or just want to have a go at me as they donÆt like my post.





ôWrong again. PVP makes up almost everything in this game.ö
No its not and I mentioned things that have zero PvP and little to no isk. PvE is not just missions like you keep saying. I dont class the market or mineing as PvP. Many definitions of PvP involve players shooting players. Not Players trying to out do Players on the market.




ôAll pve is in place to support pvp. Missions are there to earn isk so that you can spend it on pvp.ö
No its not, how is doing archaeology to dig up info on old raceÆs supporting PvP? PvE is far more then just agent in star base's giveing missions.
EDIT: Anyway itÆs all PvP is there to support PvE. You lot have to go around blowing ships up so the builders and miners have something to do.

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Originally by: Pottsey

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Edited by: Pottsey on 28/05/2008 13:30:29
ônot only that, there is new PvE content in the expansion, its just all based around a pvp zone. (go here, kill that, try not get ganked).ö
If itÆs based around PvP then itÆs not PvE. The whole idea is to have two sides of players fighting for victory points. ThatÆs PvP. That why there is a scoreboard between the players.

ôWrong again. PVP makes up almost everything in this game.ö
No its not and I mentioned things that have zero PvP and little to no isk. PvE is not just missions like you keep saying. I dont class the market or mineing as PvP. Many definitions of PvP involve players shooting players. Not Players trying to out do Players on the market.


ôAll pve is in place to support pvp. Missions are there to earn isk so that you can spend it on pvp.ö
No its not, how is doing archaeology to dig up info on old raceÆs supporting PvP? PvE is far more then just agent in star base's giveing missions.
EDIT: Anyway itÆs all PvP is there to support PvE. You lot have to go around blowing ships up so the builders and miners have something to do.

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Originally by: Pottsey

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ôFrom the sounds of things you never leave high sec space for fear of a pvp encounter.ö
As I explained before I have been all over living in Catch during the first Great War, joining a large PvP alliance and a small PvP corp.




ôAgain PVE is not the main focus of this game. Get out of your carebear mentality and involved with the dreaded pvp side of the game and you wont need more PVE to be added since you will have all the content you need.ö
I tried the PvP side of the game and found it very boring. The PvE side was far more interesting for me as it has tons of stuff not found in PvP that I like. CCP are doing the same to PvP as they are to PvE. They have added next nothing to 0.0 PvP.
Are the 0.0 PvP people really not bothered about no content for 1 year? How do the allianceÆs feel about no content for them?

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Originally by: Pottsey

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ôI think that's justified. So now this release has as its focus FW; give CCP a break, huh? Maybe the next release will focus largely on new PVE content to balance the fact that FW is largely PVP focused.ö
They donÆt deserve a break, itÆs bad planning. The next expansion shouldnÆt focus on PvE. If the next expansion focus on PvE that means the 0.0 PvP players get no content for 1 year, 6 months assuming the expansion after the PvE one is for PvP 0.0 space.
Expansions should be a mix for everyone. When any expansion focus on one play style all the other play style end up with a year or longer of almost no content. 1 year of no or little content is unacceptable for a monthly subscription game.

Junks of content every 1 year is bad practise. Junks throughout the year is much better even if it ends up smaller junks. CCP used to get the balance right, all older expansions had something for everyone. If they keep going down this path I can see them losing a lot of players.

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Originally by: Pottsey

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Edited by: Pottsey on 28/05/2008 16:43:47
ôMining and building are NOT pve! You keep saying "I class that as PVP" and "I dont class that as PVE". Have you tried actually using the same defintions as the developers of the game and the rest of the community, rather than just making up your own to try and justify your factitious argument?ö
As far as I am aware the devs never gave there definitions of PvP. I am not making up my own definitions PvP you lot are. PvP refers to combat and has done for along time. http://webopedia.com/TERM/P/PVP.html
PvP means ôPvP is a type of combat in MMORPGs, MUDs and other computer role-playing games (CRPGs), pitting one player's 'skill' against another's.ö

Mining and market are not combat so are not PvP. Other names used are player killing or Pking.

PvP started as a switch in online games when player fight other players. The PvP areas have players fighting; the none PvP areas have no fighting but still market and mining. Every other online game has PvP as combat between players. PvP is short for players fighting other players.



ôPVP isnt "PSP". Its not just Players Shooting Players. Its players VERSUS players.ö
Ok it doesnÆt have to be shooting but PvP is combat between people.
http://www.babylon.com/definition/player_versus_player/English
http://webopedia.com/TERM/P/PVP.html
From muds to MMORPGÆs PvP has always referred to Player V Player in combat. Why Is Eve suddenly different with a different meaning?

EDIT:"On a normal server, PvP is optional and regulated: characters cannot be attacked by other characters except by participating in designated 'battleground' matches, unless they have "flagged" for PvP through a command, attacked a flagged enemy, entered an enemy city or assisted a flagged character. On a PvP server, characters adventuring in areas outside of the initial starting areas (these areas are known as contested zones) are automatically flagged and players of the opposite faction in these regions, which make up the bulk of the game-world, may attack one another without restriction."

In Eve its wars flag you for PvP against those targets or areas like 0.0 are PvP free for all. The history of PvP is very much a combat word. Some people use it wrongly to mean none combat in games.

"PvP combat in CRPGs has its roots in various MUDs like Gemstone III. However, while the ability to kill another player existed in many MUDs, it was usually frowned upon because of general strict adherences and heavy influences from role-playing games like Dungeons & Dragons. The term PvP originated in text based MUDs played on bulletin board systems like MajorMUD and Usurper. These games had open worlds where any player could attack any other player as long as they were not at a safe spot in town like the Bank. Player versus player was coined sometime in the late 1980s to refer to the combat between players that resulted in the loser being penalized in some way."

Quote:

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I dont care what some random website says, if a player is in competition with another player then it is PVP. Be it the Jita price wars or taking out a titan. All of it is you against another player not the eviroment.

Back on galaxies I used to be one of the largest steel suppliers on my server, I was always having to stay one step ahead of the rest of the competion. That was my pvp and it was fun. Just because I didnt shoot people didnt change the fact that I was going head to head with other players.