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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Venkul Mul
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Posted - 2008.05.28 19:55:00 -
[211]
 Originally by: Big Al
Neglecting PVE is a pretty stupid thing to do (much like having a PVE system in a PVP game to begin with), most people that play this game now are fairly risk adverse. This is going to really show when faction warfare with it's small gang objectives fails miserably. People will complain all day about blobs, but they won't show up to fight small gang vs small gang when it's on the line.
If you feel like ragequitting though, contract your stuff to good old Big Al and I'll take good care of it for you.
Read a little about the tests on Sisi. They have blobbed there. Guess what will happen on the live server.
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Saladin
Eternity INC.
Project Alice.
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Posted - 2008.05.28 20:13:00 -
[212]
Edited by: Saladin on 28/05/2008 20:13:15
Saying EvE is a PVP game as though it were a self evident truth is stupid. The OP is a long time member of this community and a great contributor that was among those who pioneered and documented the passive shield tank. So I think he needs more credit than what has been awarded so far.
Cosmos/Exploration is the sort of activity that makes me want to chew my arm off, but I can see why some people would enjoy that.
With regards to the OP, I was pretty sure I heard in the EA live dev blog that level 5 missions were going to get significantly higher rewards, so that could be seen as new PvE content. With regards to FW, the same dev blog said the goal was to get the more casual players out there and interacting with each other. It might not be so bad, so consider it while you wait for the next big PvE patch
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Venkul Mul
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Posted - 2008.05.28 20:17:00 -
[213]
Originally by: Dramaticus
they're never going to make you feel immersed or excited while mining or running missions 23 hours a day so just give it a rest. the whole 'massively multiplayer' part of eve should tip you off. its up to you to make this game enjoyable. not find something you want to do then ***** incessantly that doing the same repetitious task is boring and they should make it more fun. keep sitting there playing by yourself, and you'll eventually figure out that you're a pretty ****ty playmate.
or you could just go run trade routes in X3.
So you feel immersed in the environment and game shooting someone you meet for 5 minutes while he is passing through. Mmmh. Where is different from missions? he is a harder (or softer sometime) rat. Nothing more.
For me doing PvE (or semi PvE, depend on your definition of PvE) like mining for the ships my corporation build or ice for my corporation POS is more immersive than shooting player X while he pass a gatecamp in a system I don't really need to control and don't want to conquer.
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Hugh Ruka
Exploratio et Industria Morispatia
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Posted - 2008.05.28 20:20:00 -
[214]
Originally by: Xeronn
I really have a hard time understanding why anyone would play eve for PvP, it`s so mind-numbingly booring and dull and terrible and ...yeah , that it makes lineage 2 grind seem fun by comparison
There, fixed it for you ...
Why can't you accept that there is a different play style than your own ? I mean Pottsey has no problem with PvP. Tried it, did not like it, avoided it. But never complained that it exists (nowhere in this thread and I cannot remember ever seeing any complain in almost 3 years).
It is you who is intolerant here, ignoring arguments, even logic. Also there are those folks that actualy twist the common definition of PvP because it does not suit their argument.
This game is heading down the drain not because of content but because of the playerbase. Some people have too much freedom to manage.
--- SIG ---
CSM: your support is needed ! |
Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2008.05.28 20:59:00 -
[215]
Edited by: Pottsey on 28/05/2008 21:02:37
ôBecause it doesn't matter what it means in other games û in this game PvP means what is says on the can: Player versus Player. Two players competing against each other. In EVE, PvP comes in many forms û shooting other players' ships is only one of them.ö
One flaw in your argument Eve has a dictionary with words split into 3 lists. One list is Eve specific words and meanings and the other list is MMO standard words. Guess which one PvP is in? ItÆs in the standard MMOG list, meaning PvP in Eve has the standard meaning for Player versus Player.
If PvP meant something different in Eve it would be listed under the Eve specific list. Eve userÆs the standard meaning for PK, PvE and PvP.
EDIT: As for lvl 5 rewards I have to admit I wasnÆt aware of that.
____
ôToo many times. Too many times have the addictions of man destroyed the progress of ages. History is about to fail us again, and deny us the right to walk among you once more.ö |
Feilamya
Pelennor Swarm
Souls of Vengeance
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Posted - 2008.05.28 21:16:00 -
[216]
Edited by: Feilamya on 28/05/2008 21:16:06
Originally by: Pottsey
ôu can be ganked in normal missions allso.. that doesnt make missions PVPö
A mission that sends you against other players is PvP. The whole idea is to face other players.
I could be wrong, but isn't that the whole idea of every (massively) multi-player game?
What is PVP?
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Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2008.05.28 21:23:00 -
[217]
ôI could be wrong, but isn't that the whole idea of every (massively) multi-player game?
What is PVP?ö
No itÆs not the idea for all MMOÆs. Many massively multi-player game are based around a group of players working as a group agsinst NPCÆs of some sort. A lot have a mix of PvP and PvE though some learn more towards one then the other. Wow for example is based on PvE but it has some PvP in it.
E&B was like a PvE spaceship game version of Eve with a light amount of PvP. In fact its PvP was very much like FW with arenas and teams of players after points.
____
ôToo many times. Too many times have the addictions of man destroyed the progress of ages. History is about to fail us again, and deny us the right to walk among you once more.ö |
Zetjur Jilnou
Rapid Deployment Industries
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Posted - 2008.05.28 22:25:00 -
[218]
Wait... Missions don't count as new PvE content? There are new *normal* missions on the test server now afaik...
If that doesn't count, what does count? The new areas of combat where replacement ships and items will be needed, thus opening up new areas for PVE players to produce/sell for profit? Setting up shop in the high sec borders of the faction warfare areas will be very profitable. So there we have new missions and more stuff for miners/producers.
So, what do you want? Seriously? FW provides large bonuses for both PVE and PVP players. The question is having the intelligence and willingness to find these things to do. I can't see any problem, all I see here is someone wanting to stir up drama on the forums, or someone who possibly hasn't put quite enough thought into this.
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Guillame Herschel
The Graduates
Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2008.05.29 00:04:00 -
[219]
Edited by: Guillame Herschel on 29/05/2008 00:07:43
Originally by: Pottsey
Like many other people I donÆt enjoy PvP I find it boring and none rewarding. I play and pay for Eve due to the PvE content.
So the Pottsey character was sold on to a carebear player, eh?
Too bad, the old player was cool.
-- The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then --
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Oakrayven
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.05.29 01:56:00 -
[220]
Originally by: Zetjur Jilnou
Wait... Missions don't count as new PvE content? There are new *normal* missions on the test server now afaik....
the only new missions I have seen so far are re-designed level 5s that currently pay off worse in total per mission than a current level 3. suposedly that will be self correcting as the database is populated from people doing addtional runs  . Other than that, for some reason they seem to have moved some faction missions around.
***** ****
Trust Aura. Aura is Your Friend.
If your too paranoid to play EVE. . .
Then your not paranoid ENOUGH to play EVE |
Oakrayven
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.05.29 01:57:00 -
[221]
enough of the petty bickering over whats on SiSi, Im going to the real game!
BANZI~!~
***** ****
Trust Aura. Aura is Your Friend.
If your too paranoid to play EVE. . .
Then your not paranoid ENOUGH to play EVE |
Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2008.05.29 06:36:00 -
[222]
ôMissions don't count as new PvE content? There are new *normal* missions on the test server now afaik...ô
I havenÆt seen a single new normal mission. The only mission I came across are based around PvP. 30 round jumps in PvP hotzones where you know there are war targets is something I count as PvP. Every new mission I took sent me a long way into player enemy space. On the test server I met enemy war target after war target. The live server is just going be the same if not worse due to a higher population count. Only on the live server youÆre not only sent 30round jumps to war targets you also have low sec pirates to deal with.
One thing I didnÆt like is the new missions had ship restrictions but no reference. I flew 15 jumps only to find my T2 ships wasnÆt permitted to use the gate. You would think the Intel people who send you on a navy mission would at least know what ships can use a gate. The reward was to low as well 800lpÆs ish with max skills. Ship restrictions are ok but there should be a note from the agent.
ôSo the Pottsey character was sold on to a carebear player, eh?ö
Excluding pre arranged 1v1 matchÆs and mini tournaments I never really liked PvP. What makes you think different?
____
ôToo many times. Too many times have the addictions of man destroyed the progress of ages. History is about to fail us again, and deny us the right to walk among you once more.ö |
Jacque Custeau
Knights of the Minmatar Republic
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Posted - 2008.05.29 12:33:00 -
[223]
Originally by: Pottsey
One thing I didnÆt like is the new missions had ship restrictions but no reference. I flew 15 jumps only to find my T2 ships wasnÆt permitted to use the gate. You would think the Intel people who send you on a navy mission would at least know what ships can use a gate. The reward was to low as well 800lpÆs ish with max skills. Ship restrictions are ok but there should be a note from the agent.
Wait so are they going to fix that? Because that kind of incompetence is a deal breaker for FW for me.
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards
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Posted - 2008.05.29 15:09:00 -
[224]
Originally by: Pottsey
ôI dont care what some random website says, if a player is in competition with another player then it is PVP.ö
PvP has a meaning and that is combat between players. Why change a definition for a word that means combat between players in pretty much every other game? A no PvP/Area doesnÆt mean no market, no trading, no mining, no building. If you play a none PvP game or on a none PvPserver you still have all those things.
Go look up the history and meaning behind the word PvP. ItÆs very much a combat word.
Your right it does mean something, lets look deeper into the sentence "people verses people" using the Oxford English Dictionary to see what those words mean.
first word,
Poeple: persons, inderviduals, humans, men, women ect.
next word,
Verses: direct competion, challange, to confront, to compeat.
Put them together and we get PVP or people in direct competition with other people.
Now if I am selling an item and someone comes in and under cuts me what is that?
Player in direct competition with a built in game mechanic controled by the games AI? NO!
Its me against another human, or in other words PVP. But you can always just say that the official dictionary on the english language is wrong and that we british people know nothing about the language we invented...
Afterall its on the internet, so it must be true!
PVE content is getting added and updated, its not CCP's falt you are too spineless to go enjoy it.
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Zetjur Jilnou
Rapid Deployment Industries
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Posted - 2008.05.29 15:14:00 -
[225]
Originally by: Pottsey
ôMissions don't count as new PvE content? There are new *normal* missions on the test server now afaik...ô
I havenÆt seen a single new normal mission. The only mission I came across are based around PvP. 30 round jumps in PvP hotzones where you know there are war targets is something I count as PvP. Every new mission I took sent me a long way into player enemy space. On the test server I met enemy war target after war target. The live server is just going be the same if not worse due to a higher population count. Only on the live server youÆre not only sent 30round jumps to war targets you also have low sec pirates to deal with.
One thing I didnÆt like is the new missions had ship restrictions but no reference. I flew 15 jumps only to find my T2 ships wasnÆt permitted to use the gate. You would think the Intel people who send you on a navy mission would at least know what ships can use a gate. The reward was to low as well 800lpÆs ish with max skills. Ship restrictions are ok but there should be a note from the agent.
Nice work on skipping the rest of my post. I see you are here only to try and cause drama, and are ignoring the points people make. Great work.
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Alex Shurk
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Posted - 2008.05.29 18:23:00 -
[226]
Originally by: Pottsey
Not one person has told me how to do this new content without being forced into PvP.
You can be forced into PvP at any time in eve. Just because it's lowsec, you're not forced into pvp by default, it's just more probable. There's PvE content there, you're just ignoring it because it involves aspects of the game you're not involved in.
Well, you know what? Tough ****. If you don't like it, stop paying. There is absolutely nothing stopping you from sampling this new content, other than your own conscious choice to ignore it.
Now, if you were a member of an alliance, you might have a valid complaint. But as you're simply spitting your dummy because of the result of your decision, you don't have a leg to stand on.
As for whether market trading, mining and other activities are PvP - yes, they are. They're all in direct competition with other players. Missions are just about the only aspect that dont involve other players, and i think that's wrong, as eve is a PvP game.
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Shirley Serious
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.05.29 19:30:00 -
[227]
Originally by: Pottsey
New players are not the ones that need lots of new content as the old content is still new for them. ItÆs the people who have been playing for 1+ year that need new PvE content.
The biggest cause of death for most MMORPG is not providing content for the older players. They reach high level get bored and quit. While the new people are happy playing the old content as its new for them.
No, old content is boring for new players, because of things like mission survival guides. Without new low level missions, new players don't get the opportunity to go and find out things for themselves, to make their own discoveries. Instead, they just trudge along following the footsteps of others, never finding anything that no-one else has seen before, until they get bored.
Originally by: Pottsey
it is CCPÆs fault. They added a load of low level missions and starter tutorial missions and almost nothing for the high level end game PvErÆs pilots. ItÆs a great way to lose players. Players donÆt want to go back to lvl 1 and 2 missions and to a lesser extent lvl 3 missions. What CCP did was good for the people working up to higher end PvE content but they have very little new PvE content for those already there.
Something like 20% ish of those new missions where all 1 off tutorial missions you wonÆt do again unless you start a 2nd character. (Very Rough estimate didnÆt count the tutorial missions). The rest of the new missions pretty much all fall in the lvl 1 to 3 range.
No, players do want to go back to level 1 missions. Perhaps they feel like working for a new faction, for a change. Without new content at low levels, then that would be a completely boring experience.
Running level 4 missions for your chosen corporation is boring, but there are plenty of things that a player can do to change that.
Like, racing yourself. How quickly can you get "X" LPs with a corporation, then trying to beat that record.
How quickly can you get zero refining taxes in every station in a constellation.
Things like that. Using your own resources to make the existing game content fun. Setting your own goals, instead of waiting for the game to provide them. That's end game PVE, if you accept that anything in EVE has an end game (it doesn't really). PVP end game goals are player defined - do you want to hold space?, be a pirate?, mercenary?, T2 rigged noobship jockey? etc. Why do PVE orientated players have to have the game set their goals for them?
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Level5
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Posted - 2008.05.29 19:37:00 -
[228]
I am so tired of hearing ppl say "you need to make your own fun"
Its a game, most of us play to escape reality for a bit after a long day at work... i dont pay subscription money for someone to tell me to go to a room , close the door and make up my own fun ffs.. I pay to get entertained !!
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Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2008.05.29 22:14:00 -
[229]
Edited by: Pottsey on 29/05/2008 22:22:14
ôIts me against another human, or in other words PVP. But you can always just say that the official dictionary on the english language is wrong and that we british people know nothing about the language we invented... ô
Way to go in ignoring what Player verusus player is short for and then twisting its true meaning.
You have been proven wrong now stop trying to twist the meaning of words. PvP has a very clear combat definition and has done for a long time. Player verusus player has meant combat between players in an online game for something like 20years now. You only need to look at the 100+ games which all use it as combat between players to see I am right. Yet I guess 20odd years of PvP meaning combat and 100Æs of games are all wrong and youÆre the one who is right.
PvP is short for Player verusus player which in turn is short for ôa type of combat in MMORPGs, MUDs and other computer role-playing games (CRPGs), pitting one player's 'skill' against another's.ö
ItÆs not practical to type ôa type of combat in MMORPGs, MUDs and other computer role-playing games (CRPGs), pitting one player's 'skill' against another's.öö every time so it got shorten down to Player verusus player which in turn got shorten down to PvP. Look up the history of the word. Stop trying to twist its meaning.
ôYour right it does mean something, lets look deeper into the sentence "people verses people" using the Oxford English Dictionary to see what those words mean.ö
What your doing is shortening ôa type of combat in MMORPGs, MUDs and other computer role-playing games (CRPGs), pitting one player's 'skill' against another'sö down to Player versus player, then shortening that down to PvP, then extending PvP to People verses People. Then you extend people verses People to ôpeople in direct competition with other people.ö in an attempt to prove me wrong. Only now you have lost the original meaning of PvP.
ôPVE content is getting added and updated, its not CCP's falt you are too spineless to go enjoy it.ö
Its nothing to do with being spineless, itÆs because I find it PvP boring, big difference. If other people want to PvP, I dont have a problem with it. But dont expact me to enjoy it. No matter how you define PvP or PvE the fact is this is the first expansion with nothing for 0.0 space or high sec space which is bad.
ôNice work on skipping the rest of my post. I see you are here only to try and cause drama, and are ignoring the points people make. Great work.ö
I skipped parts of your post as I answer it, what feels like a dozen times already and do not see a need to answer it yet again.
ôNow if I am selling an item and someone comes in and under cuts me what is that?ö
It is not combat which is what PvP is short for so its not PvP. Your taking things to literarily, PvE according to you means player V the rocks, planets trees e.c.t. Not NPC ships as NPC ships are not environment as environment is natural worlds or ecosystem's.
The no Player V Player servers still have markets with players undercutting priceÆs. That should be a hint for you right there that PvP is combat. Its its a no PvP server and it has players undercutting priceÆs then markets cannot be PvP.
The only difference between a No PvP area and a PvP area is combat between players.
The only difference between a No PvP server and a PvP server is combat between players.
____
ôToo many times. Too many times have the addictions of man destroyed the progress of ages. History is about to fail us again, and deny us the right to walk among you once more.ö |
Feilamya
Pelennor Swarm
Souls of Vengeance
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Posted - 2008.05.29 22:17:00 -
[230]
Originally by: Level5
I am so tired of hearing ppl say "you need to make your own fun"
Its a game, most of us play to escape reality for a bit after a long day at work... i dont pay subscription money for someone to tell me to go to a room , close the door and make up my own fun ffs.. I pay to get entertained !!
Yes, EVE is a game. And games don't work that way. What you need is a TV.
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Feilamya
Pelennor Swarm
Souls of Vengeance
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Posted - 2008.05.29 22:22:00 -
[231]
Originally by: "Pottsey"
stuff
Arguing about the meaning of words on the internets is the most r-tarded thing one can do.
If the "correct" use of words is more important to you than what other people mean by what they say, you are obviously not serious about the topic and should get out of the discussion, troll!
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Havohej
The Defias Brotherhood
DEFI4NT
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Posted - 2008.05.29 22:23:00 -
[232]
Did I post in this thread yet?
Originally by: techzer0
I'm invincible until proven wrong
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Khatred
ReallyPissedOff
Guinea Pigs
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Posted - 2008.05.30 00:31:00 -
[233]
I have heard that this thread is full of nerd rage. So true, oh my.
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Daelin Blackleaf
Naqam
Project Alice.
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Posted - 2008.05.30 02:58:00 -
[234]
Yes, this is what happens when the people who provide the majority of funding for the game encounter those that provide the majority of it's popularity.
To hear either side speak the other has no right to content aside from their cast-offs. 
----------------------------
Originally by: CCP Subscription
I'm sorry Sir your European I'll have to charge you 58% extra
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards
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Posted - 2008.05.30 08:48:00 -
[235]
Originally by: Pottsey
Edited by: Pottsey on 29/05/2008 22:22:14
ôIts me against another human, or in other words PVP. But you can always just say that the official dictionary on the english language is wrong and that we british people know nothing about the language we invented... ô
Way to go in ignoring what Player verusus player is short for and then twisting its true meaning.
You have been proven wrong now stop trying to twist the meaning of words. PvP has a very clear combat definition and has done for a long time. Player verusus player has meant combat between players in an online game for something like 20years now. You only need to look at the 100+ games which all use it as combat between players to see I am right. Yet I guess 20odd years of PvP meaning combat and 100Æs of games are all wrong and youÆre the one who is right.
PvP is short for Player verusus player which in turn is short for ôa type of combat in MMORPGs, MUDs and other computer role-playing games (CRPGs), pitting one player's 'skill' against another's.ö
ItÆs not practical to type ôa type of combat in MMORPGs, MUDs and other computer role-playing games (CRPGs), pitting one player's 'skill' against another's.öö every time so it got shorten down to Player verusus player which in turn got shorten down to PvP. Look up the history of the word. Stop trying to twist its meaning. quote]
You are unbalevable...
So using the official engish dictionary is twisting a words meaning but a single website on the internet hold more merrit?
You have done nothing to prove anyone wrong thus far and you are alone in your veiws.
Use your head. By your logic there is no pve in this game since you can be attacked at any time in any place doing anything, even in 1.0 systems.
This is just a simple case of you wanting pve with as little risk of dieing as possible.
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Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2008.05.30 11:49:00 -
[236]
Edited by: Pottsey on 30/05/2008 11:51:28
ôSo using the official engish The is twisting a words meaning but a single website on the internet hold more merrit?ö
ItÆs not a single website itÆs every single one of them with a history of what the word PvP means and is used for. I listed more than one website so you couldnÆt use that excuse of only one website. PvP has been used to mean combat between players for around 20 years. If PvP includes mining then why do the 100Æs of No PvP games and 100Æs of no PvP servers still have mining in them?
YouÆre just out to troll arenÆt you? You skipped what Player vs Player is short for then changed the word that the PÆs stand for in PvP. So yes youÆre twisting the meaning of PvP using the official English dictionary. As your changing the word the P stands for and youÆre skipping what Player vs Player is short for.
http://fiestaonline.wikia.com/wiki/Player_vs._Player_(PvP)
Yet another website. How many do I need to list?
Pretty much every MMO that talks about PvP has it in reference to combat.
http://www.guildwars.com/gameplay/pvp/
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/pvp/
http://www.jossh.com/join_today/JG_recruit_files/faq.html#5
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm notice how the games without PvP still have mining and crafting.
http://chronicle.ubi.com/What+is+Shadowbane.php Another one that has PvP as combat.
http://forums.hellgatelondon.com/forumdisplay.php?f=222 all to do with combat.
ôYou have done nothing to prove anyone wrong thus far and you are alone in your veiws.ö
Use your head. By your logic there is no pve in this game since you can be attacked at any time in any place doing anything, even in 1.0 systems
Your making yourself look really stupid by saying that. Did you read my posts? Clearly you didnÆt understand them.
As for PvE, can be attacked and being attacked are not the same thing. If your in a 1.0 system not at war then its PvE, that only turns to PvP if someone shoots at you.
ôThis is just a simple case of you wanting pve with as little risk of dieing as possible.ö
No I want PvE thatÆs worth while and being something thatÆs fun to do. FW feels pointless; I donÆt see any reason to do it. ItÆs boring and slow and there are no worthwhile rewards as far as I can see. That and its all based around PvP. Its not really possbile to do FW without doing PvP.
____
ôToo many times. Too many times have the addictions of man destroyed the progress of ages. History is about to fail us again, and deny us the right to walk among you once more.ö |
Jakke Logan
F Off And Die
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Posted - 2008.05.30 12:35:00 -
[237]
To me:
PVP: What I want to do most of the time.
PVE: What I have to do to remain able to PVP.
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Lt Angus
Wicked Crew
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Posted - 2008.05.30 12:42:00 -
[238]
Originally by: Pottsey
Edited by: Pottsey on 30/05/2008 11:51:28
Pretty much every MMO that talks about PvP has it in reference to combat.
http://www.guildwars.com/gameplay/pvp/
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/pvp/
http://www.jossh.com/join_today/JG_recruit_files/faq.html#5
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm notice how the games without PvP still have mining and crafting.
http://chronicle.ubi.com/What+is+Shadowbane.php Another one that has PvP as combat.
http://forums.hellgatelondon.com/forumdisplay.php?f=222 all to do with combat.
Maybe because none of those games have non combat pvp in them 
Shhhh, Im hunting Badgers |
Phyrr
The Gosimer and Scarab
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Posted - 2008.05.30 14:53:00 -
[239]
Originally by: Big Al
Neglecting PVE is a pretty stupid thing to do (much like having a PVE system in a PVP game to begin with), most people that play this game now are fairly risk adverse. This is going to really show when faction warfare with it's small gang objectives fails miserably. People will complain all day about blobs, but they won't show up to fight small gang vs small gang when it's on the line.
If you feel like ragequitting though, contract your stuff to good old Big Al and I'll take good care of it for you.
I'm so glad you are still playing
Join us in the Exploration channel.
The odds on me being here are rather slim evolutionary speaking, yet in the infinite bounds of probability my being here is a certainty. |
baltec1
Antares Shipyards
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Posted - 2008.05.30 17:12:00 -
[240]
Originally by: Lt Angus
Originally by: Pottsey
Edited by: Pottsey on 30/05/2008 11:51:28
Pretty much every MMO that talks about PvP has it in reference to combat.
http://www.guildwars.com/gameplay/pvp/
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/pvp/
http://www.jossh.com/join_today/JG_recruit_files/faq.html#5
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm notice how the games without PvP still have mining and crafting.
http://chronicle.ubi.com/What+is+Shadowbane.php Another one that has PvP as combat.
http://forums.hellgatelondon.com/forumdisplay.php?f=222 all to do with combat.
Maybe because none of those games have non combat pvp in them
If they have an active market then they have none combat pvp. The OP is just too stupid or pig headed to try and contemplate that you dont need to shoot someone to engage in player verses player.
Its funny, pve in 0.4 and below are to him pvp yet pve in 0.5+ systems are pve untill someone actually engages...
PVE is getting added and fixed but because concord wont save his arse it doesnt count. I am willing to bet that pottsey also thinks high sec is 100% safe, low sec has a 10 BS gate camp in every system and they guy who just undercut him on the market is an NPC.
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