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The Djego merovinger inc	Posted - 2008.05.29 18:38:00 - [31] Originally by: Dantes Revenge I am posting with an alt for reasons that will become clear further down the post. Everytime I read a line like this I get the feeling i the time to read the thread is wasted. And well yes I was right. Originally by: Dantes Revenge So, for those of you whining about no targets in lowsec any more, remember that the whiners caused the nerfing of these three mods. That alone has turned lowsec from a pirates heaven into a barren wasteland. There are so many quite Low Sec Systems around. Originally by: Dantes Revenge A few years ago, I used to mine in lowsec. Not any mining spot but right in the HQ system of the worst pirates in the sector. /facepalm No Istab\Stab or Nano will help you sorry. You have to choices a pool full of piranyas and a eampty pool. Instead of picking the eamty pool you pick the piranyas and now you need a better swimsuit to not getten eaten alive. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Jonny JoJo 425 II In PVE? Surely hybrid users use Blaster in PvE.
Iriana McNuke	Posted - 2008.05.29 19:06:00 - [32] Originally by: Dantes Revenge Stay in empire and mine/build my ships. You don't want to see your hooker strolling around in your own neighborhood. If you bother to read a bit, you MIGHT find out that most ships require more than hi-sec minerals. To salvage something you are supposed to kill it first. On a side note, if you use a one-legged-60-yrs-old-woman as hooker, I can see why you dont want her in neighborhood... ----------------------------------------------- Do you think RL sux? Come and play Eve.
Siberys	Posted - 2008.05.29 19:10:00 - [33] I rarely PvP, due to two facts 1. I suck ass at pvp (My alt lost like 12 ships and never killed anything.) 2. The point you address. There is nothing easy to kill, just dozens of T2 ships that pwn you in seconds.
Spike 68 Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated	Posted - 2008.05.29 19:12:00 - [34] OH NO SOMEONE CALL THE WAAAAAMBULANCE! There ways of not dying in lowsec, other than ship fit. You have to get smart, lower sec systems will chew you up if you cant adapt. K go away
Toria Nynys	Posted - 2008.05.29 19:44:00 - [35] Originally by: Dantes Revenge Ok, us industrials won't mine any more... So who builds your ships? Where do the minerals come from? When you lose your next ship and can't buy another, you'll be asking CCP to put slots on pods Ok, how about a friendly wager. My CNR+Abaddon vs. your mining ship(s) and hauler(s) of choice. Either with or without alts helping. Mine whatever you want in lowsec or highsec. I'll mine rats. At the end of 10 hours we can compare our respective mineral mountains. I'll even disregard all the bonus ISK and LP I'll have made in the meantime. How much would you like to wager on this excercise? You'll have to bet I won't pull any drone missions -- if I do, I could hit as much as 6x your maximum theoretical mining output assuming instant hauling. The only way you'll win is if I get nothing but Massive Assault and Retribution for 10 hours straight.
Kolwrath Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2008.05.29 20:55:00 - [36] Originally by: Spike 68 OH NO SOMEONE CALL THE WAAAAAMBULANCE! There ways of not dying in lowsec, other than ship fit. You have to get smart, lower sec systems will chew you up if you cant adapt. K go away You diden't even read the thread did you ... Originally by: Chaos Space Marines Do you hear the voices, too?!?!
Hanneshannes	Posted - 2008.05.29 20:58:00 - [37] Originally by: Winterblink Originally by: Dantes Revenge I am posting with an alt for reasons that will become clear further down the post. . . I actually thought there was consequence in this game for your actions, not for wannabe pirates obviously. Is that where it becomes clear that you're not a fan of taking consequences for your actions? There are, I can't go to jita anymore because I blew someone's pod up because he didn't wanna pay :(
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.05.29 21:09:00 - [38] Originally by: Dantes Revenge I am posting with an alt for reasons that will become clear further down the post. And this is? SKUNK
Indigo Darkwolf	Posted - 2008.05.30 03:30:00 - [39] Originally by: Tarminic Non-combat players avoid lowsec because of high risk, not low rewards. Reduce the risk of non-combat players and they will be more willing to live in low-sec. I'll back this up. Sure, I'm a carebearing empire-resident mission runner. I'd be interested in moving out into low-sec and null-sec, but until I have the time to find a corp, the risk is just too great without a little help. Added rewards might encourage me to explore low-sec, but then there's that nasty concept called "gatecamping" that a fair number of PvPers do because tanking the gate guns is just a little too easy, and the campers are usually a little better than your average carebear at fitting a good gank. Everyone will reply: Welcome to the "Multiplayer" of an MMO, now go join a corp. Even an organized group, however, would want to avoid low-sec gate camps, and a quick look at the distribution of podkills on the galactic map (always suspiciously dense at the border between empire and low-sec) will show why. Even as a corp, if you're going to go, then you might as well go all the way into null-sec. Null-sec not only has higher rewards, but it's usually safer (unless you're a renter corp in Goon space, but the tales my friends have of Goons shooting blues are for another topic). I'm sure there's some fundamental flaw with the notion of boosting the gate guns to make gate camps in low-sec less practical. I'm sure it's been suggested by some poor fool who was quickly and thoroughly rebutted. Otherwise, that would seem like the easiest way to reduce the risk of low-sec and encourage players who haven't made it out to null-sec to explore just that little bit more. But back to the point, I'd agree that Tarminic is 100% correct that non PvPers avoid low-sec because of the risk.
Xaldor hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.05.30 04:05:00 - [40] Originally by: Zaknussem Dumb idea of the day, but...have you tried mining in a BS? The Rokh, The Dominix and the Apocalypse (to name examples) can give pretty good Mining Yields and don't pop so easily as a Barge. They mine better than a Retriever, but not as good as a Covetor. They can be setup to mine a reasonable amount, but it is going to be significantly lower than a Hulk, I sometimes mine in a pair of Domi's that have a fair shield tank on them, the 10 sentries are a formidable defense against the typical one or two man band flying around in smaller ships. However, you get much bigger gangs in low-sec, it is sadly more dangerous than typical 0.0 territory unless you are very close to a border. As to profit margin, with current prices it is more profitable to mine veldspar with a dual hulk setup in empire than mine in low-sec because Veldspar is more profitable than Jaspet, Omber or the lesser rocks. There are some rocks that are more profitable but the risk factor can be significant. Even if you don't get attacked, taking the precautions because of the threat can leave you to make significantly less than had there been no/less threat.

CCP Mitnal C C P	Posted - 2008.05.30 04:36:00 - [41] Given that one of the stated aims of Empyrean Age is to populate low-sec we shall have to see how claims of its demise are greatly exaggerated or not. Mitnal Community Representative CCP Games, EVE Online Email / Netfang

Galan Amarias The Drekla Consortium	Posted - 2008.05.30 05:29:00 - [42] If you really wanted what you say you want you'd ask for a hauler, barge speed boost. I think you are a Domi pilot who misses his speed tank. As for the rest of your nonsense, I agree that playing where it's dangerous is more fun than playing where it's safe, still expecting to be able to avoid 80+% of trouble in a system filled with hostiles smacks of terrible game balance. You want to mine in low sec, get your ship in with a scout when the gate isn't camped.. then go somewhere no one else goes. Run your mins out with paranoia and a scout and poof, you're minning in lowsec w/o a speed tank perfectly safely. Someone else appears on local you need no time at all to warp away. Or heck, just cloak. Finally about that ramming the rocks nonsense. You can be above or below the belt and mine just fine, you can also use a frig to set waypiints above and below your favorite belt so you can warp to something they will have to probe out. That will give even the slowest ship plenty of time to align warp and dock. -Galan The answer to empire ganking
Bellum Eternus D00M.	Posted - 2008.05.30 05:29:00 - [43] Originally by: Dantes Revenge I am posting with an alt for reasons that will become clear further down the post. Let's start with solo mining in lowsec: Get a full hold and warp back - Time loss equivalent to 50%. Get a buddy to haul - Income loss equivalent to 50%. Get an alt to haul - Dangerous as you have to alt+tab to get both out quick. In short, mining in lowsec was dangerous or non profitable at best to begin with. Nerfs in the last few years. Stacking nerfs on nano's and inertia stabs. Targettting penalties on warp stabs. This has led to poor performance of ships that have little defence. A few years ago, speed tanking was a possibility on indy's and barges. A couple of nano's and they could get out quickly in the even of a pirate entering the system. Inertia stabs allowed ships to get into warp quickly. A mix of the two helped an indy with a packaged barge in the hold get past gate camps, and that was before WTZ, but anyone with half a brain had instas anyway. This did not garauntee the safety of the ship but it helped. Someone with skills to lock quickly could still pop a barge or indy before it could warp. It always has been pointless to have a defence force since the barge would always be primary. Not because it was a high threat but simply because it would pop quickly, leaving only the defence to deal with. Now the reason for the defence being there has been popped, why did they bother at all? After the nerf: barges are slow and useless at getting out quick. Now, even with inertia stabs and nano's, they are too slow to even consider mining. Mining in anything less than a Retriever was time consuming and non-profitable. Indy's and even transport ships get popped before they've even left the starting mark into warp because they are so slow. Unless you have a full rack of warp stabs you are dead meat in seconds. On an indy, Warp Stabs are pointless since, with a full rack, you have to be within 1.5K of the can to target it for the tractor beam anyway. On a barge, anyone knows thay have only a short targetting range anyway so two stabs means thay have to be on top of the roid to mine from it. That puts you right in the middle of the roids and then you have a problem warping out... bumping around the roids surrounding you. So, for those of you whining about no targets in lowsec any more, remember that the whiners caused the nerfing of these three mods. That alone has turned lowsec from a pirates heaven into a barren wasteland. A few years ago, I used to mine in lowsec. Not any mining spot but right in the HQ system of the worst pirates in the sector. I had instas to every gate, I had ship fits that allowed me to get out fast and only lost only 1 indy (with my minerals and barge packaged in it) in all the time I was doing it. Oh well, that's how it goes. Now, with all the nerfing, that time has gone. I can't fit the ships to get out fast any more, I can't use the mods that allowed me to mine in the knowledge that anyone entering the system would have to work to catch me and we can't even get 1/10th of the safety now that we used to have. Even a noob can catch anyone mining in lowsec now. Half the reason for players not engaging bounty hunters in lowsec is because they are mostly noobs. It has become so easy for a noob to pop an indy or even a transport ship jumping or a barge in the belt that everyone is a pirate now. If you want more targets in lowsec, un-nerf these mods and find some other way to combat the nano BS. Now it has become so easy to blow up another ship that nobody even needs most of the skills any more to be a pirate. Oh, there's a barge... POP!. Oh there's a player in a BS... Run away! Run away!. I actually thought there was consequence in this game for your actions, not for wannabe pirates obviously. Fail. (128 Characters left) Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y [gold]Owing to lack of Eve-related content, signature removed. If you would like to discuss this, please mail mods@cc
Bellum Eternus D00M.	Posted - 2008.05.30 05:33:00 - [44] Originally by: CCP Mitnal Given that one of the stated aims of Empyrean Age is to populate low-sec we shall have to see how claims of its demise are greatly exaggerated or not. Really? You guys took a cookie cutter, used it on missions, made some missions that force players to jump 10+ jumps to the objective, and force them into low sec, and have a pittance for rewards (ISK/loot wise). This will last for a few weeks, maybe a few months. How are carebears going to deal with the existing situation of low sec gatecamps (not that they are a bad thing, it's just that carebears are idiots) and all the rest that goes with anything outside of a security blanket (0.5+). Hell, the morons can't even deal with high sec attacks (commonly called 'high sec ganking'), or legalized wars, much less hardened PVP veterans, and indeed, low sec combat specialists like pirates. It's going to be a meatgrinder. And the FW participants are going to be the meat. Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y [gold]Owing to lack of Eve-related content, signature removed. If you would like to discuss this, please mail mods@cc
Luyshin	Posted - 2008.05.30 05:38:00 - [45] Originally by: CCP Mitnal Given that one of the stated aims of Empyrean Age is to populate low-sec we shall have to see how claims of its demise are greatly exaggerated or not. For what it's worth, I actually think low-sec is more populated than before. There's a little low-sec system that I called home for the first six months or so of my Eve career. At that time, I was routintely the only person in the system, and any others often just passed on through. Anymore, there's at least 2-3 people in the systen at all times, it's significantly more dangerous, and I've even seen people running missions!
Galan Amarias The Drekla Consortium	Posted - 2008.05.30 05:54:00 - [46] Originally by: Luyshin Originally by: CCP Mitnal Given that one of the stated aims of Empyrean Age is to populate low-sec we shall have to see how claims of its demise are greatly exaggerated or not. For what it's worth, I actually think low-sec is more populated than before. There's a little low-sec system that I called home for the first six months or so of my Eve career. At that time, I was routintely the only person in the system, and any others often just passed on through. Anymore, there's at least 2-3 people in the systen at all times, it's significantly more dangerous, and I've even seen people running missions! Name that system and we'll clear those pesky mission runners for you. The answer to empire ganking
Tippia School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.05.30 08:29:00 - [47] If low-sec is dead (which is higly debatable in and of itself), the only culprit is the low-sec inhabitants themselves.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.05.30 08:38:00 - [48] Originally by: Kaar If you dont have the balls to express your opinion with your main then im not going to read it. I'm jealous, you saved yourself some time I mined in lowsec once, luckily my corp was the pirates in system the risk is only a part of the problem of lowsec, the other part is i can jsut sit in highsec and make WAY more isk just running level 4s... hell i can probably make more isk running level 3s
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.05.30 08:40:00 - [49] Originally by: Kolwrath Originally by: Spike 68 OH NO SOMEONE CALL THE WAAAAAMBULANCE! There ways of not dying in lowsec, other than ship fit. You have to get smart, lower sec systems will chew you up if you cant adapt. K go away You diden't even read the thread did you ... I read the thread, and this post is probably one of the better ones in the thread
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.05.30 08:41:00 - [50] Originally by: Toria Nynys Originally by: Dantes Revenge Ok, us industrials won't mine any more... So who builds your ships? Where do the minerals come from? When you lose your next ship and can't buy another, you'll be asking CCP to put slots on pods Ok, how about a friendly wager. My CNR+Abaddon vs. your mining ship(s) and hauler(s) of choice. Either with or without alts helping. Mine whatever you want in lowsec or highsec. I'll mine rats. At the end of 10 hours we can compare our respective mineral mountains. I'll even disregard all the bonus ISK and LP I'll have made in the meantime. How much would you like to wager on this excercise? You'll have to bet I won't pull any drone missions -- if I do, I could hit as much as 6x your maximum theoretical mining output assuming instant hauling. The only way you'll win is if I get nothing but Massive Assault and Retribution for 10 hours straight. for good measure we should add my paladin and raven to the challenge
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.05.30 08:44:00 - [51] Originally by: Tippia If low-sec is dead (which is higly debatable in and of itself), the only culprit is the low-sec inhabitants themselves. lowsec is far from dead... If you guys only knew the stupidity of what so many people said on the forums. the only greater stupidity is from the guys jumping cnrs blindly into lowsec.
RuleoftheBone Ataraxia.	Posted - 2008.05.30 10:57:00 - [52] Originally by: CCP Mitnal Given that one of the stated aims of Empyrean Age is to populate low-sec we shall have to see how claims of its demise are greatly exaggerated or not. It's not dead. Not remotely. Trust me . Expansion will be interesting for us outlaws. To say the least. Hopefully we can choose to remain neutral engaging all and sundry for fun and profit in the new content areas. I am after all-an equal opportunity outlaw . "Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
Pax Ratlin Woodland Larch	Posted - 2008.05.30 11:59:00 - [53] Originally by: CCP Mitnal Given that one of the stated aims of Empyrean Age is to populate low-sec we shall have to see how claims of its demise are greatly exaggerated or not. Quote saved, bookmarked and recorded. This quote will be available to any 'i told you so' troller (as of the 17th of June (you've got to give it a chance people)) for the price of 100k isk per refferal to this said link
Cpt Branko Surge. NIght's Dawn	Posted - 2008.05.30 12:00:00 - [54] Originally by: RuleoftheBone Originally by: CCP Mitnal Given that one of the stated aims of Empyrean Age is to populate low-sec we shall have to see how claims of its demise are greatly exaggerated or not. It's not dead. Not remotely. Trust me . Expansion will be interesting for us outlaws. To say the least. Hopefully we can choose to remain neutral engaging all and sundry for fun and profit in the new content areas. I am after all-an equal opportunity outlaw . This Correct from start to finish. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Ralara D00M.	Posted - 2008.05.30 12:04:00 - [55] Originally by: Dantes Revenge I am posting blahblah Yes and who was it that whinged about nano ships, and about wrap core stabs making it easier to come in, blow something up and run away with no risk? THE CAREBEARS. This is your fault. --
Jack Gilligan Dragon's Rage Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.05.30 12:08:00 - [56] Originally by: CCP Mitnal Given that one of the stated aims of Empyrean Age is to populate low-sec we shall have to see how claims of its demise are greatly exaggerated or not. Fail. Don't see how it's going to do it. Unless you are going to turn it into highsec lite, which isn't a solution either. My opinions are my own and do not reflect those of my corporation or alliance.
Rufus MacMaranth Shadow Front	Posted - 2008.05.30 12:46:00 - [57] Originally by: Tarminic Originally by: Larkonis Trassler Originally by: Faife making low sec too profitable is a bad idea: it'll give a lot of money to pirate alts, making them able to outclass the low sec noobs even more, and no one else. O RLY? Maybe it will encourage mid size Empire corporations who can't cope with 0.0 into Lowsec and stand up for themselves when the pirates try and kick sand in their face. I really think that it's less a matter of reward and much more a matter of risk and effort. Most carebears are highly risk-adverse, much more than they are pro-reward. Increasing the reward won't have much of an effect on the carebear population, reducing the risk will. Actually, expecially for mining, the reward in low sec is not worth the effort these days. The serious drop in the Nocxium price has made the best low sec ore only about 50% (at most) more profitable than the best high sec ore. With the need to move so much in low sec and the time to haul ore out it makes way less cash than in high sec. If you are going to run exploration sites or rat you may as well just go to 0.0 .... the rewards are way better and it is no less dangerous in general than low sec. Cheers, Ruf.
Ieu Duin Star Sabre Industries Dark Taboo	Posted - 2008.05.30 13:17:00 - [58] Originally by: Dantes Revenge If you want more targets in lowsec, un-nerf these mods and find some other way to combat the nano BS. Now it has become so easy to blow up another ship that nobody even needs most of the skills any more to be a pirate. Oh, there's a barge... POP!. Oh there's a player in a BS... Run away! Run away!. I actually thought there was consequence in this game for your actions, not for wannabe pirates obviously. I will begin my remarks by stating that I have no experience with building fleets for PvP. That said, it seems that the focus of the lowsec "mining op" should begin with combat and not mining. Would building the lowsec mining fleet as a combat fleet, or anti-pirate fleet, then adding in the mining op or fitting mining equipment on combat vessels help with the lowsec pirates? It also seems this is more of an issue with solo players. Lowsec is no place for solo mining. EvE is designed to benifit those who desire to engage in combat with other pilots. It will always be slanted in that way. Any nerfs, spits, that fundamentally change that will not be well received. Quote:* There are no fair fights in EVE. If you're in a fair fight, you planned wrong. -- Agent Li, Caldari, Galactic Defence Consortium, BLACKHAWK FEDERATION
Frost 1232	Posted - 2008.05.30 13:49:00 - [59] Edited by: Frost 1232 on 30/05/2008 13:57:04 Edited by: Frost 1232 on 30/05/2008 13:55:30 Originally by: Bellum Eternus Originally by: CCP Mitnal Given that one of the stated aims of Empyrean Age is to populate low-sec we shall have to see how claims of its demise are greatly exaggerated or not. Really? You guys took a cookie cutter, used it on missions, made some missions that force players to jump 10+ jumps to the objective, and force them into low sec, and have a pittance for rewards (ISK/loot wise). This will last for a few weeks, maybe a few months. How are carebears going to deal with the existing situation of low sec gatecamps (not that they are a bad thing, it's just that carebears are idiots) and all the rest that goes with anything outside of a security blanket (0.5+). Hell, the morons can't even deal with high sec attacks (commonly called 'high sec ganking'), or legalized wars, much less hardened PVP veterans, and indeed, low sec combat specialists like pirates. It's going to be a meatgrinder. And the FW participants are going to be the meat. Id like the Idea Of FW but i think you Pirate Scum grefiers scammers are going to Ruin it. One way to stop this guy And others From mucking it all up . make it so Pirates & Non militia personal can't get Any where near Front lines or the supply lines or the battle fields. Just shut Them out.
Oakrayven Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2008.05.30 14:35:00 - [60] Edited by: Oakrayven on 30/05/2008 14:40:46 Originally by: CCP Mitnal Given that one of the stated aims of Empyrean Age is to populate low-sec we shall have to see how claims of its demise are greatly exaggerated or not. Dude, the odds are very good that most of the people doing FW will be the ones who already are going to PvP in low sec anyway. and (thank god) none of them are Stuid enough to even give the FW missions a second look when they can make more ratting or mining Veldspar with just mineing drones. *** ** Trust Aura. Aura is Your Friend. If your too paranoid to play EVE. . . Then your not paranoid ENOUGH to play EVE

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