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Dantes Revenge	Posted - 2008.05.29 13:54:00 - [1] I am posting with an alt for reasons that will become clear further down the post. Let's start with solo mining in lowsec: Get a full hold and warp back - Time loss equivalent to 50%. Get a buddy to haul - Income loss equivalent to 50%. Get an alt to haul - Dangerous as you have to alt+tab to get both out quick. In short, mining in lowsec was dangerous or non profitable at best to begin with. Nerfs in the last few years. Stacking nerfs on nano's and inertia stabs. Targettting penalties on warp stabs. This has led to poor performance of ships that have little defence. A few years ago, speed tanking was a possibility on indy's and barges. A couple of nano's and they could get out quickly in the even of a pirate entering the system. Inertia stabs allowed ships to get into warp quickly. A mix of the two helped an indy with a packaged barge in the hold get past gate camps, and that was before WTZ, but anyone with half a brain had instas anyway. This did not garauntee the safety of the ship but it helped. Someone with skills to lock quickly could still pop a barge or indy before it could warp. It always has been pointless to have a defence force since the barge would always be primary. Not because it was a high threat but simply because it would pop quickly, leaving only the defence to deal with. Now the reason for the defence being there has been popped, why did they bother at all? After the nerf: barges are slow and useless at getting out quick. Now, even with inertia stabs and nano's, they are too slow to even consider mining. Mining in anything less than a Retriever was time consuming and non-profitable. Indy's and even transport ships get popped before they've even left the starting mark into warp because they are so slow. Unless you have a full rack of warp stabs you are dead meat in seconds. On an indy, Warp Stabs are pointless since, with a full rack, you have to be within 1.5K of the can to target it for the tractor beam anyway. On a barge, anyone knows thay have only a short targetting range anyway so two stabs means thay have to be on top of the roid to mine from it. That puts you right in the middle of the roids and then you have a problem warping out... bumping around the roids surrounding you. So, for those of you whining about no targets in lowsec any more, remember that the whiners caused the nerfing of these three mods. That alone has turned lowsec from a pirates heaven into a barren wasteland. A few years ago, I used to mine in lowsec. Not any mining spot but right in the HQ system of the worst pirates in the sector. I had instas to every gate, I had ship fits that allowed me to get out fast and only lost only 1 indy (with my minerals and barge packaged in it) in all the time I was doing it. Oh well, that's how it goes. Now, with all the nerfing, that time has gone. I can't fit the ships to get out fast any more, I can't use the mods that allowed me to mine in the knowledge that anyone entering the system would have to work to catch me and we can't even get 1/10th of the safety now that we used to have. Even a noob can catch anyone mining in lowsec now. Half the reason for players not engaging bounty hunters in lowsec is because they are mostly noobs. It has become so easy for a noob to pop an indy or even a transport ship jumping or a barge in the belt that everyone is a pirate now. If you want more targets in lowsec, un-nerf these mods and find some other way to combat the nano BS. Now it has become so easy to blow up another ship that nobody even needs most of the skills any more to be a pirate. Oh, there's a barge... POP!. Oh there's a player in a BS... Run away! Run away!. I actually thought there was consequence in this game for your actions, not for wannabe pirates obviously.
Melor Rend	Posted - 2008.05.29 14:06:00 - [2] Edited by: Melor Rend on 29/05/2008 14:08:16 Boosting nano-mods to un-nerf mining is like... wow... can't find an example but i find it a terrible idea. I also think the main reason why nobody goes to lowsec has less to do with the risk and much more to do with the lack of a reward that justifies the risk. If you could make much more ISK in lowsec then in highsec then I'm sure much more people would be willing to take that risk but not as long as the risk is huge and the reward is not. And the reason why the pirates run away when outnumbered IS because of "consequences" mate... They are not willing to engage something if the consequences of that action may be death (without getting a good reward for the extra risk taken). Edit: Also, if nano mods are boosted then that will not only make your mining barge faster.. it's also gonna make every nano user out there way way faster (whether it's a BS or not) so in the end you are increasing the risk and not reducing it.
Estel Arador	Posted - 2008.05.29 14:08:00 - [3] Originally by: Dantes Revenge A few years ago, speed tanking was a possibility on indy's and barges. That doesn't even bother you at all? The biggest, slowest, sluggiest ships being able to speed tank? Estel Arador corp services (high-sec POS/JCs) just 120M isk!
PROTOCOL	Posted - 2008.05.29 14:19:00 - [4] Quote: Get an alt to haul - Dangerous as you have to alt+tab to get both out quick. How about gang warp? How about windowed mode? Quote: It always has been pointless to have a defence force since the barge would always be primary lol, who would you shoot first? Your defense can counter this with ewar or remote damps. If a pirate can't lock you he can't make you go boom. Eve is harsh, if you want to solo carebear you have alot of highsec to do so in, want some more reward, the risk goes up.
Larkonis Trassler Neo Spartans	Posted - 2008.05.29 14:20:00 - [5] Originally by: Dantes Revenge I am posting with an alt for reasons that will become clear further down the post. Let's start with solo mining in lowsec: Get a full hold and warp back - Time loss equivalent to 50%. Different to Hisec how? Get a buddy to haul - Income loss equivalent to 50%. Different to Hisec how? Get an alt to haul - Dangerous as you have to alt+tab to get both out quick. In short, mining in lowsec was dangerous or non profitable at best to begin with. Welcome to Eve, our massively MULTIPLAYER online game. Lowsec is quite rewarding if you know where to go, most of it is dead save the major choke points, I can go 20 jumps without seeing another soul. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Navigator ([email protected])
Drizit	Posted - 2008.05.29 14:25:00 - [6] Originally by: Estel Arador Originally by: Dantes Revenge A few years ago, speed tanking was a possibility on indy's and barges. That doesn't even bother you at all? The biggest, slowest, sluggiest ships being able to speed tank? Remember that they are practically unarmed ships. No it doesn't bother me. @Melor Rend: A nano BS was not as much of a risk. Since the same fitting can get a barge or an indy out quick. Like I said, I used to do it a lot pre-nerf and the nano BS was a minimal risk then. The risk of lowsec mining has increased more than 10 fold since those nerfs. It used to be relatively viable to mine in lowsec, given the occasional loss. Now, it's poor pickings compared to the vastly increased risk. It never was that much better than highsec in terms of reward but at least the risk was far smaller than it is now. -- Freighters need a tank
Winterblink Body Count Inc.	Posted - 2008.05.29 14:33:00 - [7] Originally by: Dantes Revenge I am posting with an alt for reasons that will become clear further down the post. . . I actually thought there was consequence in this game for your actions, not for wannabe pirates obviously. Is that where it becomes clear that you're not a fan of taking consequences for your actions? warp drive active \| nature vraie
Kaar Art of War Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2008.05.29 14:35:00 - [8] If you dont have the balls to express your opinion with your main then im not going to read it. --- ---
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2008.05.29 14:36:00 - [9] Originally by: Estel Arador Originally by: Dantes Revenge A few years ago, speed tanking was a possibility on indy's and barges. That doesn't even bother you at all? The biggest, slowest, sluggiest ships being able to speed tank? I think he does not mean speedtanking but rather the ship could escape faster if bad guys showed. Still nowhere near fast enough to count as a speed"tank". -------------------------------------------------- "Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2008.05.29 14:40:00 - [10] Originally by: PROTOCOL Quote: It always has been pointless to have a defence force since the barge would always be primary lol, who would you shoot first? Your defense can counter this with ewar or remote damps. If a pirate can't lock you he can't make you go boom. The issue here is your guards take a sec hit to be proactive in the barge's defense. And my past experiences with low sec mining (admittedly awhile ago now) were that pirates would almost always tag the miner/hauler first despite guards then either face the guards or leave depending on their chances there. In some cases the guards were too much and the pirates would swing in and blow cans up for fun and swing out as just generic harassment. -------------------------------------------------- "Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
Jawas	Posted - 2008.05.29 14:41:00 - [11] Originally by: Kaar If you dont have the balls to express your opinion with your main then im not going to read it. Probably because I'm not stupid enough to let the pirates reading these forums know who I am and that I'm mining right in the middle of their HQ system. I still do it occasionally since the nerfs meant I couldn't get my ships out. But now, I only go online to do it when there's few people on which isn't often. -- Sig design in training: Remaining time 30 years 20 days, 4 hours, 10 mins, 15 seconds.
Bloody Puppy Onorata Societa	Posted - 2008.05.29 14:41:00 - [12] Edited by: Bloody Puppy on 29/05/2008 14:41:29 Originally by: Kaar If you dont have the balls to express your opinion with your main then im not going to read it. OMG you are te genius who first used the nanophoon hail to Kaar ------------------------------------------------- The puppy -- yarr WHY EVERYONE LOVES ME BUT NOONE UNDERSTAND ME? Albert Heinstein
Blind Jhon Alenia psy departement	Posted - 2008.05.29 14:45:00 - [13] Originally by: Jawas Originally by: Kaar If you dont have the balls to express your opinion with your main then im not going to read it. Probably because I'm not stupid enough to let the pirates reading these forums know who I am and that I'm mining right in the middle of their HQ system. I still do it occasionally since the nerfs meant I couldn't get my ships out. But now, I only go online to do it when there's few people on which isn't often. hahahahaah someone just S C R E W E D his main dantes revenge jawas..... now check local more ofter man sig removed, it broke our forums - Mitnal
Tarminic Black Flame Industries	Posted - 2008.05.29 14:47:00 - [14] I agree that mining barges and industrials could use a bit of a boost, but un-nerfing nano modules is not going to get the results that you want. It seems interesting that while you cite the unintended consequences of the nano nerf as a reason for making lowsec life difficult, you fail to consider the unintended consequences of your own ideas. Thankfully, CCP is usually better at it than the average player. If you want to make industrial ships: 1. Add a new module that reduces signature radius at the expense of sensor range/targeting resolution 2. Boost blockade runners' and mining barges' cargobay a bit 3. Create more means by which players can defend other ships from being ganked (not just destroy the ganker) Non-combat players avoid lowsec because of high risk, not low rewards. Reduce the risk of non-combat players and they will be more willing to live in low-sec. ---------------- Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.81 (Updated 4/8)
Tojo Chigurh	Posted - 2008.05.29 14:49:00 - [15] Also the basic math of mining lowsec ore is that with the amount of minerals obtained through simply reprocessing mission/ratting loot, lowsec ore generates less isk/m3/hour than plain ol' veldspar.
Ghengis Tia	Posted - 2008.05.29 14:49:00 - [16] Edited by: Ghengis Tia on 29/05/2008 14:51:12 I can mine for 2 four-hour shifts in high-sec and have enough Isk to buy the Megacyte and Zydrine to build any battleship. All the other minerals are available from ores in high-sec, so the only reason to mine in low-sec is for megacyte and zydrine. I've contributed enough ships to low-sec pirates to never make the risk worth the reward. It like going to big cities and hanging out in the rough parts of town until you get mugged. Not a question of if, just when. If you want to sell low-sec, then just hire some political P/R flack to put some lipstick on that pig. Until then, the 'rats can have it.
Faife Noctiscion	Posted - 2008.05.29 14:52:00 - [17] making low sec too profitable is a bad idea: it'll give a lot of money to pirate alts, making them able to outclass the low sec noobs even more, and no one else.
Dantes Revenge	Posted - 2008.05.29 14:53:00 - [18] Originally by: Blind Jhon hahahahaah someone just S C R E W E D his main dantes revenge jawas..... edit anyways <3 montecristo now check local more ofter man An account has 3 characters, 1 main and two alts Also, there is the possibility of more than one account. I'm not THAT dumb.
Madla Mafia The Dead Man's Hand	Posted - 2008.05.29 14:57:00 - [19] No no no, it's "How CCP SAVED low sec." Nobody wants stupid miners to hang around in low sec. Who cares about mining?!? It's the most boring thing in the world. Do missions, trade, or use piracy as your income source, DON'T MINE !!! ------------------------------------------ Amarr - getting screwed since 2005.
Dantes Revenge	Posted - 2008.05.29 15:03:00 - [20] Originally by: Madla Mafia No no no, it's "How CCP SAVED low sec." Nobody wants stupid miners to hang around in low sec. Who cares about mining?!? It's the most boring thing in the world. Do missions, trade, or use piracy as your income source, DON'T MINE !!! Ok, us industrials won't mine any more... So who builds your ships? Where do the minerals come from? When you lose your next ship and can't buy another, you'll be asking CCP to put slots on pods Mission running isn't as profitable as people think. Trading is far too competetive to make a regular profit. Piracy Where are your targets when there's nobody in lowsec?
Madla Mafia The Dead Man's Hand	Posted - 2008.05.29 15:20:00 - [21] Edited by: Madla Mafia on 29/05/2008 15:20:28 Originally by: Dantes Revenge Ok, us industrials won't mine any more... So who builds your ships? Stay in empire and mine/build my ships. You don't want to see your hooker strolling around in your own neighborhood. Originally by: Dantes Revenge Mission running isn't as profitable as people think. Do you do missions? Salvage ftw! Originally by: Dantes Revenge Where are your targets when there's nobody in lowsec? I didn't say "keep everyone" out of low sec, only miners. Shooting miners is no fun, it's like shooting fish in a barrel. Low-sec is for PvP'ing. That's why it is "allowed" there without CONCORD intervention. Miners: "High-sec -->"
Jack Gilligan Dragon's Rage Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.05.29 16:00:00 - [22] Edited by: Jack Gilligan on 29/05/2008 16:02:14 Lowsec is and will continue to be underutilized because it has all the dangers of 0.0 without ANY of the benefits. Once you are in lowsec, might as well go the rest of the way. Besides, mining in lowsec is a lot less profitable than 0.0, and probably LESS profitable than highsec due to the much, MUCH higher overhead. I suspect now that FW is here, and the aim is to move noobs into lowsec, that CCP is going to make it "safer". Which I disagree with. The OP has a point, that industrials and barges should be able to be fitted in such a way as to operate in hazardous areas. I previously suggested a new class of barge that would have better defenses and perhaps stealth capability in exchange for yields that would fall below what T1 mining barges can do now. My opinions are my own and do not reflect those of my corporation or alliance.
Larkonis Trassler Neo Spartans	Posted - 2008.05.29 16:11:00 - [23] Originally by: Faife making low sec too profitable is a bad idea: it'll give a lot of money to pirate alts, making them able to outclass the low sec noobs even more, and no one else. O RLY? Maybe it will encourage mid size Empire corporations who can't cope with 0.0 into Lowsec and stand up for themselves when the pirates try and kick sand in their face. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Navigator ([email protected])
Tarminic Black Flame Industries	Posted - 2008.05.29 16:26:00 - [24] Originally by: Larkonis Trassler Originally by: Faife making low sec too profitable is a bad idea: it'll give a lot of money to pirate alts, making them able to outclass the low sec noobs even more, and no one else. O RLY? Maybe it will encourage mid size Empire corporations who can't cope with 0.0 into Lowsec and stand up for themselves when the pirates try and kick sand in their face. I really think that it's less a matter of reward and much more a matter of risk and effort. Most carebears are highly risk-adverse, much more than they are pro-reward. Increasing the reward won't have much of an effect on the carebear population, reducing the risk will. ---------------- Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.81 (Updated 4/8)
Zaknussem The Ironbreakers	Posted - 2008.05.29 16:46:00 - [25] Dumb idea of the day, but...have you tried mining in a BS? The Rokh, The Dominix and the Apocalypse (to name examples) can give pretty good Mining Yields and don't pop so easily as a Barge. They mine better than a Retriever, but not as good as a Covetor.
Joe Starbreaker	Posted - 2008.05.29 17:24:00 - [26] Low-sec is profitable if you have a corporation or alliance inhabiting an area and defending it with a constant presence. And if you prefer ninja-mining, well that's why there's the Rorqual. ---------------- [insert signature here]
Kolwrath Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2008.05.29 17:47:00 - [27] Edited by: Kolwrath on 29/05/2008 17:47:13 Originally by: Tarminic Non-combat players avoid lowsec because of high risk, not low rewards. Reduce the risk of non-combat players and they will be more willing to live in low-sec. Yeah thats about right. I would also like to mention that the Drone regions nerfed Lowsec alot. How you ask? well lowsec minig used to be one of the few ways to get Zydrine, and because of this lowsec mining was actually profitable relative to highsec. Once the Drone regions came out, Zydrine prices collapsed and lowsec mining profits went through the floor. Zydrine used to be around 4k a unit ... no word of a lie, now they are what 2k at best? A boost to mining barge cargo, and industrials holds would help alot. However the risk of mining in lowsec, in a barge, would still be way to high. They have no survivability. Originally by: Chaos Space Marines Do you hear the voices, too?!?!
Torze Legion Of The Void	Posted - 2008.05.29 18:14:00 - [28] Normally, I would skip past a thread like this and think..oh god, more whining. However, there was something the OP wrote that got me thinking. No, I don't think that boosting nano's is a good idea. However, he is right about the barges being targeted first because they are easier to pop. That seems wrong to me. I mean, think about it..a barge is like a big, slow cargo ship that happens to mine. A ship that isn't designed for combat so, therefore wouldn't need much manuverablity. It would however need really really thick armor plates. I propose that a barge should be able to survive the first alpha strikes of a 'normal' lo-sec pirate strike. This could be done fairly easily without giving an unfair advantage to someone silly enough to solo mine in lo-sec space. You could say, give 20k armor to the barge. It would be quite a damage buff yes but, really think about it. For someone out there who is solo..it would mean nothing. The pirates would still warp scramble you and then lay the smack down. If however you had a defense team in place..it would give them some time to buy some time for the barge to escape via destroying the pirates or at least jamming them.
Hammerfail CEO Hammerfail Industries	Posted - 2008.05.29 18:16:00 - [29] Hammerfail Industries can provide top notch protection services to low sec miners at reasonable rates, contact me in game.
JamnOne	Posted - 2008.05.29 18:22:00 - [30] Originally by: Jawas Originally by: Kaar If you dont have the balls to express your opinion with your main then im not going to read it. Probably because I'm not stupid enough to let the pirates reading these forums know who I am and that I'm mining right in the middle of their HQ system. I still do it occasionally since the nerfs meant I couldn't get my ships out. But now, I only go online to do it when there's few people on which isn't often. So is this your main or was the OP your main? ________________________ Originally by: CCP Wrangler So, it's all my fault. Originally by: CCP Prism X Hah! Vengeance is sweet!
The Djego merovinger inc	Posted - 2008.05.29 18:38:00 - [31] Originally by: Dantes Revenge I am posting with an alt for reasons that will become clear further down the post. Everytime I read a line like this I get the feeling i the time to read the thread is wasted. And well yes I was right. Originally by: Dantes Revenge So, for those of you whining about no targets in lowsec any more, remember that the whiners caused the nerfing of these three mods. That alone has turned lowsec from a pirates heaven into a barren wasteland. There are so many quite Low Sec Systems around. Originally by: Dantes Revenge A few years ago, I used to mine in lowsec. Not any mining spot but right in the HQ system of the worst pirates in the sector. /facepalm No Istab\Stab or Nano will help you sorry. You have to choices a pool full of piranyas and a eampty pool. Instead of picking the eamty pool you pick the piranyas and now you need a better swimsuit to not getten eaten alive. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Jonny JoJo 425 II In PVE? Surely hybrid users use Blaster in PvE.
Iriana McNuke	Posted - 2008.05.29 19:06:00 - [32] Originally by: Dantes Revenge Stay in empire and mine/build my ships. You don't want to see your hooker strolling around in your own neighborhood. If you bother to read a bit, you MIGHT find out that most ships require more than hi-sec minerals. To salvage something you are supposed to kill it first. On a side note, if you use a one-legged-60-yrs-old-woman as hooker, I can see why you dont want her in neighborhood... ----------------------------------------------- Do you think RL sux? Come and play Eve.
Siberys	Posted - 2008.05.29 19:10:00 - [33] I rarely PvP, due to two facts 1. I suck ass at pvp (My alt lost like 12 ships and never killed anything.) 2. The point you address. There is nothing easy to kill, just dozens of T2 ships that pwn you in seconds.
Spike 68 Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated	Posted - 2008.05.29 19:12:00 - [34] OH NO SOMEONE CALL THE WAAAAAMBULANCE! There ways of not dying in lowsec, other than ship fit. You have to get smart, lower sec systems will chew you up if you cant adapt. K go away
Toria Nynys	Posted - 2008.05.29 19:44:00 - [35] Originally by: Dantes Revenge Ok, us industrials won't mine any more... So who builds your ships? Where do the minerals come from? When you lose your next ship and can't buy another, you'll be asking CCP to put slots on pods Ok, how about a friendly wager. My CNR+Abaddon vs. your mining ship(s) and hauler(s) of choice. Either with or without alts helping. Mine whatever you want in lowsec or highsec. I'll mine rats. At the end of 10 hours we can compare our respective mineral mountains. I'll even disregard all the bonus ISK and LP I'll have made in the meantime. How much would you like to wager on this excercise? You'll have to bet I won't pull any drone missions -- if I do, I could hit as much as 6x your maximum theoretical mining output assuming instant hauling. The only way you'll win is if I get nothing but Massive Assault and Retribution for 10 hours straight.
Kolwrath Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2008.05.29 20:55:00 - [36] Originally by: Spike 68 OH NO SOMEONE CALL THE WAAAAAMBULANCE! There ways of not dying in lowsec, other than ship fit. You have to get smart, lower sec systems will chew you up if you cant adapt. K go away You diden't even read the thread did you ... Originally by: Chaos Space Marines Do you hear the voices, too?!?!
Hanneshannes	Posted - 2008.05.29 20:58:00 - [37] Originally by: Winterblink Originally by: Dantes Revenge I am posting with an alt for reasons that will become clear further down the post. . . I actually thought there was consequence in this game for your actions, not for wannabe pirates obviously. Is that where it becomes clear that you're not a fan of taking consequences for your actions? There are, I can't go to jita anymore because I blew someone's pod up because he didn't wanna pay :(
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.05.29 21:09:00 - [38] Originally by: Dantes Revenge I am posting with an alt for reasons that will become clear further down the post. And this is? SKUNK
Indigo Darkwolf	Posted - 2008.05.30 03:30:00 - [39] Originally by: Tarminic Non-combat players avoid lowsec because of high risk, not low rewards. Reduce the risk of non-combat players and they will be more willing to live in low-sec. I'll back this up. Sure, I'm a carebearing empire-resident mission runner. I'd be interested in moving out into low-sec and null-sec, but until I have the time to find a corp, the risk is just too great without a little help. Added rewards might encourage me to explore low-sec, but then there's that nasty concept called "gatecamping" that a fair number of PvPers do because tanking the gate guns is just a little too easy, and the campers are usually a little better than your average carebear at fitting a good gank. Everyone will reply: Welcome to the "Multiplayer" of an MMO, now go join a corp. Even an organized group, however, would want to avoid low-sec gate camps, and a quick look at the distribution of podkills on the galactic map (always suspiciously dense at the border between empire and low-sec) will show why. Even as a corp, if you're going to go, then you might as well go all the way into null-sec. Null-sec not only has higher rewards, but it's usually safer (unless you're a renter corp in Goon space, but the tales my friends have of Goons shooting blues are for another topic). I'm sure there's some fundamental flaw with the notion of boosting the gate guns to make gate camps in low-sec less practical. I'm sure it's been suggested by some poor fool who was quickly and thoroughly rebutted. Otherwise, that would seem like the easiest way to reduce the risk of low-sec and encourage players who haven't made it out to null-sec to explore just that little bit more. But back to the point, I'd agree that Tarminic is 100% correct that non PvPers avoid low-sec because of the risk.
Xaldor hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.05.30 04:05:00 - [40] Originally by: Zaknussem Dumb idea of the day, but...have you tried mining in a BS? The Rokh, The Dominix and the Apocalypse (to name examples) can give pretty good Mining Yields and don't pop so easily as a Barge. They mine better than a Retriever, but not as good as a Covetor. They can be setup to mine a reasonable amount, but it is going to be significantly lower than a Hulk, I sometimes mine in a pair of Domi's that have a fair shield tank on them, the 10 sentries are a formidable defense against the typical one or two man band flying around in smaller ships. However, you get much bigger gangs in low-sec, it is sadly more dangerous than typical 0.0 territory unless you are very close to a border. As to profit margin, with current prices it is more profitable to mine veldspar with a dual hulk setup in empire than mine in low-sec because Veldspar is more profitable than Jaspet, Omber or the lesser rocks. There are some rocks that are more profitable but the risk factor can be significant. Even if you don't get attacked, taking the precautions because of the threat can leave you to make significantly less than had there been no/less threat.

CCP Mitnal C C P	Posted - 2008.05.30 04:36:00 - [41] Given that one of the stated aims of Empyrean Age is to populate low-sec we shall have to see how claims of its demise are greatly exaggerated or not. Mitnal Community Representative CCP Games, EVE Online Email / Netfang

Galan Amarias The Drekla Consortium	Posted - 2008.05.30 05:29:00 - [42] If you really wanted what you say you want you'd ask for a hauler, barge speed boost. I think you are a Domi pilot who misses his speed tank. As for the rest of your nonsense, I agree that playing where it's dangerous is more fun than playing where it's safe, still expecting to be able to avoid 80+% of trouble in a system filled with hostiles smacks of terrible game balance. You want to mine in low sec, get your ship in with a scout when the gate isn't camped.. then go somewhere no one else goes. Run your mins out with paranoia and a scout and poof, you're minning in lowsec w/o a speed tank perfectly safely. Someone else appears on local you need no time at all to warp away. Or heck, just cloak. Finally about that ramming the rocks nonsense. You can be above or below the belt and mine just fine, you can also use a frig to set waypiints above and below your favorite belt so you can warp to something they will have to probe out. That will give even the slowest ship plenty of time to align warp and dock. -Galan The answer to empire ganking
Bellum Eternus D00M.	Posted - 2008.05.30 05:29:00 - [43] Originally by: Dantes Revenge I am posting with an alt for reasons that will become clear further down the post. Let's start with solo mining in lowsec: Get a full hold and warp back - Time loss equivalent to 50%. Get a buddy to haul - Income loss equivalent to 50%. Get an alt to haul - Dangerous as you have to alt+tab to get both out quick. In short, mining in lowsec was dangerous or non profitable at best to begin with. Nerfs in the last few years. Stacking nerfs on nano's and inertia stabs. Targettting penalties on warp stabs. This has led to poor performance of ships that have little defence. A few years ago, speed tanking was a possibility on indy's and barges. A couple of nano's and they could get out quickly in the even of a pirate entering the system. Inertia stabs allowed ships to get into warp quickly. A mix of the two helped an indy with a packaged barge in the hold get past gate camps, and that was before WTZ, but anyone with half a brain had instas anyway. This did not garauntee the safety of the ship but it helped. Someone with skills to lock quickly could still pop a barge or indy before it could warp. It always has been pointless to have a defence force since the barge would always be primary. Not because it was a high threat but simply because it would pop quickly, leaving only the defence to deal with. Now the reason for the defence being there has been popped, why did they bother at all? After the nerf: barges are slow and useless at getting out quick. Now, even with inertia stabs and nano's, they are too slow to even consider mining. Mining in anything less than a Retriever was time consuming and non-profitable. Indy's and even transport ships get popped before they've even left the starting mark into warp because they are so slow. Unless you have a full rack of warp stabs you are dead meat in seconds. On an indy, Warp Stabs are pointless since, with a full rack, you have to be within 1.5K of the can to target it for the tractor beam anyway. On a barge, anyone knows thay have only a short targetting range anyway so two stabs means thay have to be on top of the roid to mine from it. That puts you right in the middle of the roids and then you have a problem warping out... bumping around the roids surrounding you. So, for those of you whining about no targets in lowsec any more, remember that the whiners caused the nerfing of these three mods. That alone has turned lowsec from a pirates heaven into a barren wasteland. A few years ago, I used to mine in lowsec. Not any mining spot but right in the HQ system of the worst pirates in the sector. I had instas to every gate, I had ship fits that allowed me to get out fast and only lost only 1 indy (with my minerals and barge packaged in it) in all the time I was doing it. Oh well, that's how it goes. Now, with all the nerfing, that time has gone. I can't fit the ships to get out fast any more, I can't use the mods that allowed me to mine in the knowledge that anyone entering the system would have to work to catch me and we can't even get 1/10th of the safety now that we used to have. Even a noob can catch anyone mining in lowsec now. Half the reason for players not engaging bounty hunters in lowsec is because they are mostly noobs. It has become so easy for a noob to pop an indy or even a transport ship jumping or a barge in the belt that everyone is a pirate now. If you want more targets in lowsec, un-nerf these mods and find some other way to combat the nano BS. Now it has become so easy to blow up another ship that nobody even needs most of the skills any more to be a pirate. Oh, there's a barge... POP!. Oh there's a player in a BS... Run away! Run away!. I actually thought there was consequence in this game for your actions, not for wannabe pirates obviously. Fail. (128 Characters left) Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y [gold]Owing to lack of Eve-related content, signature removed. If you would like to discuss this, please mail mods@cc
Bellum Eternus D00M.	Posted - 2008.05.30 05:33:00 - [44] Originally by: CCP Mitnal Given that one of the stated aims of Empyrean Age is to populate low-sec we shall have to see how claims of its demise are greatly exaggerated or not. Really? You guys took a cookie cutter, used it on missions, made some missions that force players to jump 10+ jumps to the objective, and force them into low sec, and have a pittance for rewards (ISK/loot wise). This will last for a few weeks, maybe a few months. How are carebears going to deal with the existing situation of low sec gatecamps (not that they are a bad thing, it's just that carebears are idiots) and all the rest that goes with anything outside of a security blanket (0.5+). Hell, the morons can't even deal with high sec attacks (commonly called 'high sec ganking'), or legalized wars, much less hardened PVP veterans, and indeed, low sec combat specialists like pirates. It's going to be a meatgrinder. And the FW participants are going to be the meat. Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y [gold]Owing to lack of Eve-related content, signature removed. If you would like to discuss this, please mail mods@cc
Luyshin	Posted - 2008.05.30 05:38:00 - [45] Originally by: CCP Mitnal Given that one of the stated aims of Empyrean Age is to populate low-sec we shall have to see how claims of its demise are greatly exaggerated or not. For what it's worth, I actually think low-sec is more populated than before. There's a little low-sec system that I called home for the first six months or so of my Eve career. At that time, I was routintely the only person in the system, and any others often just passed on through. Anymore, there's at least 2-3 people in the systen at all times, it's significantly more dangerous, and I've even seen people running missions!
Galan Amarias The Drekla Consortium	Posted - 2008.05.30 05:54:00 - [46] Originally by: Luyshin Originally by: CCP Mitnal Given that one of the stated aims of Empyrean Age is to populate low-sec we shall have to see how claims of its demise are greatly exaggerated or not. For what it's worth, I actually think low-sec is more populated than before. There's a little low-sec system that I called home for the first six months or so of my Eve career. At that time, I was routintely the only person in the system, and any others often just passed on through. Anymore, there's at least 2-3 people in the systen at all times, it's significantly more dangerous, and I've even seen people running missions! Name that system and we'll clear those pesky mission runners for you. The answer to empire ganking
Tippia School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.05.30 08:29:00 - [47] If low-sec is dead (which is higly debatable in and of itself), the only culprit is the low-sec inhabitants themselves.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.05.30 08:38:00 - [48] Originally by: Kaar If you dont have the balls to express your opinion with your main then im not going to read it. I'm jealous, you saved yourself some time I mined in lowsec once, luckily my corp was the pirates in system the risk is only a part of the problem of lowsec, the other part is i can jsut sit in highsec and make WAY more isk just running level 4s... hell i can probably make more isk running level 3s
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.05.30 08:40:00 - [49] Originally by: Kolwrath Originally by: Spike 68 OH NO SOMEONE CALL THE WAAAAAMBULANCE! There ways of not dying in lowsec, other than ship fit. You have to get smart, lower sec systems will chew you up if you cant adapt. K go away You diden't even read the thread did you ... I read the thread, and this post is probably one of the better ones in the thread
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.05.30 08:41:00 - [50] Originally by: Toria Nynys Originally by: Dantes Revenge Ok, us industrials won't mine any more... So who builds your ships? Where do the minerals come from? When you lose your next ship and can't buy another, you'll be asking CCP to put slots on pods Ok, how about a friendly wager. My CNR+Abaddon vs. your mining ship(s) and hauler(s) of choice. Either with or without alts helping. Mine whatever you want in lowsec or highsec. I'll mine rats. At the end of 10 hours we can compare our respective mineral mountains. I'll even disregard all the bonus ISK and LP I'll have made in the meantime. How much would you like to wager on this excercise? You'll have to bet I won't pull any drone missions -- if I do, I could hit as much as 6x your maximum theoretical mining output assuming instant hauling. The only way you'll win is if I get nothing but Massive Assault and Retribution for 10 hours straight. for good measure we should add my paladin and raven to the challenge
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.05.30 08:44:00 - [51] Originally by: Tippia If low-sec is dead (which is higly debatable in and of itself), the only culprit is the low-sec inhabitants themselves. lowsec is far from dead... If you guys only knew the stupidity of what so many people said on the forums. the only greater stupidity is from the guys jumping cnrs blindly into lowsec.
RuleoftheBone Ataraxia.	Posted - 2008.05.30 10:57:00 - [52] Originally by: CCP Mitnal Given that one of the stated aims of Empyrean Age is to populate low-sec we shall have to see how claims of its demise are greatly exaggerated or not. It's not dead. Not remotely. Trust me . Expansion will be interesting for us outlaws. To say the least. Hopefully we can choose to remain neutral engaging all and sundry for fun and profit in the new content areas. I am after all-an equal opportunity outlaw . "Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
Pax Ratlin Woodland Larch	Posted - 2008.05.30 11:59:00 - [53] Originally by: CCP Mitnal Given that one of the stated aims of Empyrean Age is to populate low-sec we shall have to see how claims of its demise are greatly exaggerated or not. Quote saved, bookmarked and recorded. This quote will be available to any 'i told you so' troller (as of the 17th of June (you've got to give it a chance people)) for the price of 100k isk per refferal to this said link
Cpt Branko Surge. NIght's Dawn	Posted - 2008.05.30 12:00:00 - [54] Originally by: RuleoftheBone Originally by: CCP Mitnal Given that one of the stated aims of Empyrean Age is to populate low-sec we shall have to see how claims of its demise are greatly exaggerated or not. It's not dead. Not remotely. Trust me . Expansion will be interesting for us outlaws. To say the least. Hopefully we can choose to remain neutral engaging all and sundry for fun and profit in the new content areas. I am after all-an equal opportunity outlaw . This Correct from start to finish. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Ralara D00M.	Posted - 2008.05.30 12:04:00 - [55] Originally by: Dantes Revenge I am posting blahblah Yes and who was it that whinged about nano ships, and about wrap core stabs making it easier to come in, blow something up and run away with no risk? THE CAREBEARS. This is your fault. --
Jack Gilligan Dragon's Rage Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.05.30 12:08:00 - [56] Originally by: CCP Mitnal Given that one of the stated aims of Empyrean Age is to populate low-sec we shall have to see how claims of its demise are greatly exaggerated or not. Fail. Don't see how it's going to do it. Unless you are going to turn it into highsec lite, which isn't a solution either. My opinions are my own and do not reflect those of my corporation or alliance.
Rufus MacMaranth Shadow Front	Posted - 2008.05.30 12:46:00 - [57] Originally by: Tarminic Originally by: Larkonis Trassler Originally by: Faife making low sec too profitable is a bad idea: it'll give a lot of money to pirate alts, making them able to outclass the low sec noobs even more, and no one else. O RLY? Maybe it will encourage mid size Empire corporations who can't cope with 0.0 into Lowsec and stand up for themselves when the pirates try and kick sand in their face. I really think that it's less a matter of reward and much more a matter of risk and effort. Most carebears are highly risk-adverse, much more than they are pro-reward. Increasing the reward won't have much of an effect on the carebear population, reducing the risk will. Actually, expecially for mining, the reward in low sec is not worth the effort these days. The serious drop in the Nocxium price has made the best low sec ore only about 50% (at most) more profitable than the best high sec ore. With the need to move so much in low sec and the time to haul ore out it makes way less cash than in high sec. If you are going to run exploration sites or rat you may as well just go to 0.0 .... the rewards are way better and it is no less dangerous in general than low sec. Cheers, Ruf.
Ieu Duin Star Sabre Industries Dark Taboo	Posted - 2008.05.30 13:17:00 - [58] Originally by: Dantes Revenge If you want more targets in lowsec, un-nerf these mods and find some other way to combat the nano BS. Now it has become so easy to blow up another ship that nobody even needs most of the skills any more to be a pirate. Oh, there's a barge... POP!. Oh there's a player in a BS... Run away! Run away!. I actually thought there was consequence in this game for your actions, not for wannabe pirates obviously. I will begin my remarks by stating that I have no experience with building fleets for PvP. That said, it seems that the focus of the lowsec "mining op" should begin with combat and not mining. Would building the lowsec mining fleet as a combat fleet, or anti-pirate fleet, then adding in the mining op or fitting mining equipment on combat vessels help with the lowsec pirates? It also seems this is more of an issue with solo players. Lowsec is no place for solo mining. EvE is designed to benifit those who desire to engage in combat with other pilots. It will always be slanted in that way. Any nerfs, spits, that fundamentally change that will not be well received. Quote:* There are no fair fights in EVE. If you're in a fair fight, you planned wrong. -- Agent Li, Caldari, Galactic Defence Consortium, BLACKHAWK FEDERATION
Frost 1232	Posted - 2008.05.30 13:49:00 - [59] Edited by: Frost 1232 on 30/05/2008 13:57:04 Edited by: Frost 1232 on 30/05/2008 13:55:30 Originally by: Bellum Eternus Originally by: CCP Mitnal Given that one of the stated aims of Empyrean Age is to populate low-sec we shall have to see how claims of its demise are greatly exaggerated or not. Really? You guys took a cookie cutter, used it on missions, made some missions that force players to jump 10+ jumps to the objective, and force them into low sec, and have a pittance for rewards (ISK/loot wise). This will last for a few weeks, maybe a few months. How are carebears going to deal with the existing situation of low sec gatecamps (not that they are a bad thing, it's just that carebears are idiots) and all the rest that goes with anything outside of a security blanket (0.5+). Hell, the morons can't even deal with high sec attacks (commonly called 'high sec ganking'), or legalized wars, much less hardened PVP veterans, and indeed, low sec combat specialists like pirates. It's going to be a meatgrinder. And the FW participants are going to be the meat. Id like the Idea Of FW but i think you Pirate Scum grefiers scammers are going to Ruin it. One way to stop this guy And others From mucking it all up . make it so Pirates & Non militia personal can't get Any where near Front lines or the supply lines or the battle fields. Just shut Them out.
Oakrayven Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2008.05.30 14:35:00 - [60] Edited by: Oakrayven on 30/05/2008 14:40:46 Originally by: CCP Mitnal Given that one of the stated aims of Empyrean Age is to populate low-sec we shall have to see how claims of its demise are greatly exaggerated or not. Dude, the odds are very good that most of the people doing FW will be the ones who already are going to PvP in low sec anyway. and (thank god) none of them are Stuid enough to even give the FW missions a second look when they can make more ratting or mining Veldspar with just mineing drones. *** ** Trust Aura. Aura is Your Friend. If your too paranoid to play EVE. . . Then your not paranoid ENOUGH to play EVE
RuleoftheBone Ataraxia.	Posted - 2008.05.30 17:13:00 - [61] Originally by: Jack Gilligan Originally by: CCP Mitnal Given that one of the stated aims of Empyrean Age is to populate low-sec we shall have to see how claims of its demise are greatly exaggerated or not. Fail. Don't see how it's going to do it. Unless you are going to turn it into highsec lite, which isn't a solution either. Dont't worry alliance blob lemming....you are excluded atm. You'll just have to use the ole mission alt or something . "Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
mcwarlord	Posted - 2008.05.30 17:47:00 - [62] this is how ccp destroys the game + it was low sec. You pirate and loose sometimes ships and in reward you get : 2008.05.29 20:37:00 Victim: XXXXXXXX Alliance: NONE Corp: XXXXXXXXXXXX Destroyed: Iteron Mark IV System: XXXXXXXXXX Security: 0.4 Damage Taken: 2506 Involved parties: Name: XXXXXXXXX Security: -9.9 Alliance: XXXXXXXXX Corp: XXXXXXXXX Ship: Devoter Weapon: Devoter Damage Done: 1398 Name: XXXXXXXXX Security: -9.7 Alliance: XXXXXXXXX Corp: XXXXXXXXX Ship: Abaddon Weapon: Warp Disruptor II Damage Done: 776 Name: XXXXXXXXX(laid the final blow) Security: -9.9 Alliance: XXXXXXXXX Corp:XXXXXXXXX Ship: Nighthawk Weapon: Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Damage Done: 332 Destroyed items: 1MN MicroWarpdrive I Expanded Cargohold II F-S8 Relativistic Deflection Shield Induction I Small Tractor Beam I Giant Secure Container (Cargo) Praetor I Blueprint (In Container) Core Defence Field Extender I Blueprint Tripped Power Circuit, Qty: 558 Small Energy Neutralizer I Blueprint Cap Recharger I Blueprint X-Large Shield Booster II Small Tractor Beam I Blueprint, Qty: 2 Warp Core Optimizer I Blueprint Crokite Mining Crystal I Blueprint Drone Repair Augmentor I Blueprint Shield Boost Amplifier I Blueprint Hybrid Metastasis Adjuster I Blueprint Sentry Damage Augmentor I Blueprint Heat Dissipation Field II, Qty: 2 Antimatter Charge L Blueprint Warhead Flare Catalyst I Blueprint Conductive Polymer, Qty: 83 Energy Grid Upgrades Advanced Weapon Upgrades, Qty: 2 Medium Shield Booster I Blueprint Energy Locus Coordinator I Blueprint Pyerite, Qty: 174188 Megacyte, Qty: 110878 Scordite Mining Crystal I Blueprint Energized Regenerative Membrane I Blueprint Infrared L Blueprint Core Defence Charge Economizer I Blueprint Energized Magnetic Membrane I Blueprint Large Shield Booster I Blueprint Magnetic Plating I Blueprint Small Remote Armor Repair System I Blueprint Ogre I Blueprint Dark Ochre Mining Crystal I Blueprint Auxiliary Nano Pump I Blueprint Shield Flux Coil I Blueprint Algid Hybrid Administrations Unit I Blueprint Modulated Deep Core Strip Miner II Blueprint Medium Armor Repairer I Blueprint Reactive Plating I Blueprint Warhead Calefaction Catalyst I Blueprint Ward Console, Qty: 162 Capacitor Control Circuit I Blueprint Projectile Locus Coordinator I Blueprint Energy Metastasis Adjuster I Blueprint Esoteric Data Interface Armor Kinetic Hardener I Blueprint, Qty: 2 Hemorphite Mining Crystal I Blueprint Ultraviolet L Blueprint Medium Remote Armor Repair System I Blueprint Small Shield Extender I Blueprint Dual 150mm Railgun I Blueprint Dual 250mm Railgun I Blueprint Antimatter Charge M Blueprint Gneiss Mining Crystal I Blueprint Medium Shield Extender I Blueprint Nanobot Accelerator I Blueprint Cynosural Field Theory Dread Guristas Spatial Destabilization Battery Blueprint Hybrid Burst Aerator I Blueprint Stasis Drone Augmentor I Blueprint Reactor Control Unit I Blueprint Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I Blueprint Egress Port Maximizer I Blueprint Projectile Metastasis Adjuster I Blueprint Alloyed Tritanium Bar, Qty: 45 Armor EM Hardener I Blueprint Zydrine, Qty: 12460 Armageddon Blueprint Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer I Blueprint Jaspet Mining Crystal I Blueprint Engine Thermal Shielding I Blueprint Hammerhead I Blueprint Scorched Telemetry Processor, Qty: 304 Veldspar Mining Crystal I Blueprint Smashed Trigger Unit, Qty: 92 Charred Micro Circuit, Qty: 984 425mm Railgun I Blueprint Heat Dissipation Amplifier I Blueprint Hedbergite Mining Crystal I Blueprint Remote Repair Augmentor I Blueprint Skirmish Warfare Torpedo Specialization Kinetic Deflection Amplifier I Blueprint Inverted Signal Field Projector I Blueprint Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I Blueprint Information Warfare Polycarbon Engine Housing I Blueprint Kernite Mining Crystal I Blueprint Energized Reactive Membrane I Blueprint Hobgoblin I Blueprint Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I Blueprint
mcwarlord	Posted - 2008.05.30 17:48:00 - [63] Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane I Blueprint Contaminated Nanite Compound, Qty: 138 Heavy Energy Neutralizer I Blueprint Particle Dispersion Augmentor I Blueprint Datacore - Mechanical Engineering, Qty: 44 Wasp I Blueprint Void Bomb Blueprint Rokh Blueprint Salvage Tackle I Blueprint Drone Scope Chip I Blueprint Large Remote Armor Repair System I Blueprint Warhead Rigor Catalyst I Blueprint Caldari Shuttle Blueprint Fried Interface Circuit, Qty: 894 Projectile Burst Aerator I Blueprint Hornet I Blueprint Dynamic Fuel Valve I Blueprint Mercoxit Mining Crystal I Blueprint Jury Rigging Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I Blueprint Spodumain Mining Crystal I Blueprint Sentry Drone Interfacing Particle Dispersion Projector I Blueprint Magnetic Scattering Amplifier II X-Large Shield Booster I Blueprint Raven Blueprint, Qty: 4 Juggernaut Torpedo Blueprint Small Tractor Beam I, Qty: 3 Hyperion Blueprint, Qty: 14 Contaminated Lorentz Fluid, Qty: 25 Anti-Explosive Pump I Blueprint Capacitor Flux Coil I Blueprint Wing Command Hybrid Discharge Elutriation I Blueprint Drone Speed Augmentor I Blueprint Invulnerability Field II, Qty: 3 Rocket Fuel Cache Partition I Blueprint Cruise Missiles Melted Capacitor Console, Qty: 37 Small Shield Booster I Blueprint Low Friction Nozzle Joints I Blueprint 400mm Reinforced Steel Plates I Blueprint Algid Energy Administrations Unit I Blueprint Warp Scrambler II Core Defence Field Purger I Blueprint Microwave L Blueprint Medium Energy Neutralizer I Blueprint Gamma L Blueprint Damage Control I Blueprint Tracking Diagnostic Subroutines I Blueprint Station Warehouse Blueprint Heavy Ion Blaster I Blueprint Arkonor Mining Crystal I Blueprint Anti-Kinetic Pump I Blueprint Hybrid Ambit Extension I Blueprint Small Shield Booster II Drone Durability Enhancer I Blueprint Hybrid Collision Accelerator I Blueprint Armor Plates, Qty: 95 Powergrid Subroutine Maximizer I Blueprint Auxiliary Thrusters I Blueprint 800mm Reinforced Steel Plates I Blueprint Energy Burst Aerator I Blueprint Energized Reflective Membrane I Blueprint Plutonium Charge L Blueprint Core Defence Operational Solidifier I Blueprint Vespa I Blueprint, Qty: 2 350mm Railgun I Blueprint Targeting Systems Stabilizer I Blueprint Interface Alignment Chart, Qty: 8 Salvager I Blueprint Heavy Electron Blaster I Blueprint Reflective Plating I Blueprint Medium Shield Booster II, Qty: 3 Bistot Mining Crystal I Blueprint Scientific Networking Anti-Thermic Pump I Blueprint Armored Warfare Scourge Heavy Missile Blueprint Drone Mining Augmentor I Blueprint Standard Missile Specialization Signal Disruption Amplifier I Blueprint Semiconductor Memory Cell I Blueprint Inferno Torpedo Blueprint Nocxium, Qty: 47567 Energy Collision Accelerator I Blueprint 1MN MicroWarpdrive I Blueprint Megathron Blueprint, Qty: 3 Cargohold Optimization I Blueprint 1MN Afterburner I Blueprint Valkyrie I Blueprint Bane Torpedo Blueprint Acolyte I Blueprint Ballistic Control System I Blueprint, Qty: 6 Projectile Ambit Extension I Blueprint Defective Current Pump, Qty: 137 Heavy Neutron Blaster I Blueprint Mjolnir Torpedo Blueprint Neutron Blaster Cannon I Blueprint, Qty: 2 Invulnerability Field I Blueprint Havoc Heavy Missile Blueprint Infiltrator I Blueprint Signal Focusing Kit I Blueprint Power Diagnostic System I Blueprint Widowmaker Heavy Missile Blueprint Emission Scope Sharpener I Blueprint Explosion Dampening Field II Warrior I Blueprint Armor Thermic Hardener I Blueprint Ancillary Current Router I Blueprint Datacore - Electromagnetic Physics, Qty: 54 Projectile Collision Accelerator I Blueprint Damaged Artificial Neural Network, Qty: 149 Anti-EM Pump I Blueprint Medium Armor Maintenance Bot I Blueprint Malfunctioning Shield Emitter, Qty: 143 Energized Thermic Membrane I Blueprint Capital Shield Emission Systems Thermic Plating I Blueprint Warp Disruptor II Adaptive Nano Plating I Blueprint Core Defence Capacitor Sa***uard I Blueprint Rocket Specialization
mcwarlord	Posted - 2008.05.30 17:49:00 - [64] Memetic Algorithm Bank I Blueprint Regenerative Plating I Blueprint Burned Logic Circuit, Qty: 254 Cap Booster 800 Blueprint Energy Discharge Elutriation I Blueprint 50mm Reinforced Steel Plates I Blueprint Omber Mining Crystal I Blueprint Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Blueprint Plagioclase Mining Crystal I Blueprint Scorpion Blueprint 200mm Railgun I Blueprint, Qty: 2 Gamma M Blueprint Ionic Field Projector I Blueprint Warp Core Stabilizer I Blueprint Broken Drone Transceiver, Qty: 46 Trimark Armor Pump I Blueprint Siege Warfare Targeting System Subcontroller I Blueprint Drone Control Range Augmentor I Blueprint Electron Blaster Cannon I Blueprint, Qty: 2 Hybrid Locus Coordinator I Blueprint Liquid Cooled Electronics I Blueprint Capacitor Power Relay I Blueprint Photon Scattering Field II, Qty: 3 Explosion Dampening Field I Blueprint Bay Loading Accelerator I Blueprint Shield Recharger I Blueprint Cataclysm Cruise Missile Blueprint Pyroxeres Mining Crystal I Blueprint Devastator Cruise Missile Blueprint Tangled Power Conduit, Qty: 226 Energy Ambit Extension I Blueprint Superconductor Rails Blueprint Anti-Explosive Screen Reinforcer I Blueprint Armor Rigging Apocalypse Blueprint, Qty: 2 Dropped items: Heat Dissipation Field I Kinetic Deflection Amplifier II Warp Core Stabilizer II, Qty: 2
mcwarlord	Posted - 2008.05.30 17:52:00 - [65] -ccp boosted the haulers hitpoints -ccp removed warp disrupting ability (and brought it back with heavy dictors but took a long time ) -they changed boomarks so harder to pirate again -at the end you get 2 items out of a 34 billion kill
mcwarlord	Posted - 2008.05.30 17:54:00 - [66] all I can say this is CONSPIRACY ! out of tons of items its not even 2% I think You think that is fair ???
Ieu Duin Star Sabre Industries Dark Taboo	Posted - 2008.05.30 17:57:00 - [67] Originally by: mcwarlord all I can say this is CONSPIRACY ! out of tons of items its not even 2% I think You think that is fair ??? mcwarlord off the mccaffine, now! Quote: There are no fair fights in EVE. If you're in a fair fight, you planned wrong. -- Agent Li, Caldari, Galactic Defence Consortium, BLACKHAWK FEDERATION
Nur Vadenn Viziam	Posted - 2008.05.30 18:18:00 - [68] Originally by: mcwarlord long killmail of a hauler in low-sec all I can say this is CONSPIRACY ! out of tons of items its not even 2% I think You think that is fair ??? Yup, seems fair to me. The victim lost everything, you gained something. Honestly with a heavy interdictor, battleship, and command ship did you even feel that slight tingle that was the gate guns or was that not even a factor? Seems like for the effort put forth on your part you got an appropriately scaled reward. --- The Lurker
Kerfira University of Caille	Posted - 2008.05.30 21:43:00 - [69] Originally by: mcwarlord all I can say this is CONSPIRACY ! out of tons of items its not even 2% I think You think that is fair ??? Fair? Maybe not, but then again, EVE isn't supposed to be. It's fairly easy to see what happened though. The items were in the 'Giant Secure Container', and it got destroyed.... Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Tarminic Black Flame Industries	Posted - 2008.05.30 21:54:00 - [70] Originally by: mcwarlord all I can say this is CONSPIRACY ! out of tons of items its not even 2% I think You think that is fair ??? So why didn't you scan him and ransom him? ---------------- Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.81 (Updated 4/8)
Cpt Branko Surge. NIght's Dawn	Posted - 2008.05.30 22:22:00 - [71] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 30/05/2008 22:23:12 Originally by: Tarminic So why didn't you scan him and ransom him? (a) Sitting at gates is risky. In fact, I do not own a ship which can tank sentries, only delay popping to them. (b) Carebears carrying valuables are prone to logging off for some reason instead of, you know, accepting ransom convoes.* (c) You always pop T1 haulers if you don't have a cargo scanner because if they agree to pay then they're carrying valuables which might drop way more, since you're not going to ask for a lot when ransoming a T1 hauler. I always have bad luck with drops though - one of the worst things was chasing a hauler for two sytems and then I pop him in my Hurricane and he drops a few cargo expanders - better then nothing, I guess. Turns out he was carrying 400 mil in datacores which all blew up. The hauler this guy mentioned was carrying stuff in a container which is a two-edged sword; the container could very well survive dropping everything in it. I mean, the last freighter kill we were going to ransom it for 1B, and then the guy logs off. Pew pew, he explodes, two rattlesnakes drop and a navy apoc exploded. It would be better for him if he didn't log off but paid the ransom instead It seems he's hired 8 merc corps to go after us now, so I guess he's a little ***ed Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.05.30 22:33:00 - [72] because when i activate all 8 guns an itty 4 pops when about 5 activate that and if it was say 2 bs jumping in it would have been an even fight. hell the 2 bs probably could win. If he hadn't jumped a hauler into lowsec with pirates in system well.. thats his own fault
KISOGOKU	Posted - 2008.05.31 00:13:00 - [73] Edited by: KISOGOKU on 31/05/2008 00:16:37 probably not true ,there was a known problem with killmails and bpcs .Bpcs shown a bpo and calculated as a bpo at killboard gives false damage info. Edit: hauler might be carrying bpcs but your killboard calculated bpo prices.ım not saying everyone was bpc but at least BS blue prints were bpc probably ,of course cant be sure Originally by: mcwarlord -at the end you get 2 items out of a 34 billion kill

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