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NEWS FLASH: CCP caves in to carebears, film at 11:00...

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Bellum Eternus D00M.	Posted - 2008.06.03 09:51:00 - [1] From the latest devchat transcript- "MMORPG_Taera: kimsand asks, To a carebear, EVE is primarily a game of destruction... What takes me 10 hours or more to create, takes someone 5 minutes to destroy, will there be taken some steps in the future to make some REAL safe zones, where GoonJihad will not be able to get in and have their fun on my behalf... im feeling a little like the cannon fodder ccp needs to feed the pvp'ers Greyscale: Absolutely safe zones aren't currently on our to-do list; there's a very lengthy conceptual reason why they're a bad idea, and a much shorter explanation that it's just not EVE. That said, we do feel that the current balance is out of line and we are working on changes to various mechanisms in this area which will redress this balance Greyscale: Before anyone jumps to conclusions, what we're mainly looking at is small, common-sense adjustments to tune down the randomized griefing and opportunistic free lunch attacks without removing the ability to make premeditated strikes and so on. There's a balance to be struck that's close to what we have currently, but not exactly the same." ANY change to the existing mechanics as mentioned above is a perfect example of CCP pandering to the idiot whiners who arn't smart enough to take care of themselves and compete against the rest of Eve's players for the right to exist. Tell me CCP, when is the hand holding going to stop? Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y [gold]Owing to lack of Eve-related content, signature removed. If you would like to discuss this, please mail mods@cc
Verone Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.06.03 09:54:00 - [2] Yeah, this kinda shocked me to when I saw it on IRC. \o/ EON FICTION WRITER OF THE YEAR! \o/ >>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<<
fuze InfoMorph Services Ltd	Posted - 2008.06.03 09:55:00 - [3] There are far more silly carebears than childish griefers. You do the math.
Spoon Thumb Paladin Imperium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.06.03 09:55:00 - [4] It could just be they're trying to make the game harder for pvpers rather than easier for carebears?
El'essar Viocragh Meltd0wn Atrum Tempestas Foedus	Posted - 2008.06.03 09:58:00 - [5] I understood that as for example raising the price of suicide ganks, so not only the hauler needs to do some thinking to survive it but also the ganker needs to do some real thinking to not operate at a loss. -- [17:47] <Mephysto> its dead, jim
Vaal Erit Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.06.03 10:00:00 - [6] That part you bolded is terribly vague and I can't make any assumptions on it. What I can say for sure, is that live dev blogs aren't worth the shtty bandwidth they are on. Lots of things are said in live dev blogs that never make it to TQ, most notably the nano nerf that has been in live dev blogs for almost a year and the 0.0 sov changes that we haven't heard much of. Pro-tip: live dev blogs are meaningless, REAL dev blogs that you can see from your sidebar navigation menu are pretty legit. Stop whining, Bellum. When CCP actually annoucnes such carebear hugging, then we shall WHINE IN HELL! Originally by:* CCP Casqade Please refrain from making assumptions on game mechanics and then presenting them as facts before testing them yourself.
Bel Amar Interslice Incorporated	Posted - 2008.06.03 10:00:00 - [7] I'm a carebear, and even I don't like the sound of that. EVE is EVE because it doesn't protect you from yourself.
Euriti Caritas.	Posted - 2008.06.03 10:00:00 - [8] Edited by: Euriti on 03/06/2008 10:01:31 Originally by: Bellum Eternus From the latest devchat transcript- "MMORPG_Taera: kimsand asks, To a carebear, EVE is primarily a game of destruction... What takes me 10 hours or more to create, takes someone 5 minutes to destroy, will there be taken some steps in the future to make some REAL safe zones, where GoonJihad will not be able to get in and have their fun on my behalf... im feeling a little like the cannon fodder ccp needs to feed the pvp'ers Greyscale: Absolutely safe zones aren't currently on our to-do list; there's a very lengthy conceptual reason why they're a bad idea, and a much shorter explanation that it's just not EVE. That said, we do feel that the current balance is out of line and we are working on changes to various mechanisms in this area which will redress this balance Greyscale: Before anyone jumps to conclusions, what we're mainly looking at is small, common-sense adjustments to tune down the randomized griefing and opportunistic free lunch attacks without removing the ability to make premeditated strikes and so on. There's a balance to be struck that's close to what we have currently, but not exactly the same." ANY change to the existing mechanics as mentioned above is a perfect example of CCP pandering to the idiot whiners who arn't smart enough to take care of themselves and compete against the rest of Eve's players for the right to exist. Tell me CCP, when is the hand holding going to stop? I agree, they're most likely also going to cave in to the nano whiners. /sigh, too many game changes ruins the fun for everyone, training, isk and time will all be lost. EVE is a hard, cold pvp game where every person lurks behind every corner ready to molest and murder you, take your belongings and laugh up your face, this is EVE, not wow.
Armoured C Globaltech Industries The ENTITY.	Posted - 2008.06.03 10:03:00 - [9] it probably to do with the bounty hunting thing that my guess anyway, i highly doubt that they will alter anything to massive extent as he said he knows that isnt eve
Surfin's PlunderBunny Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2008.06.03 10:04:00 - [10] I have the knowledge of how to make a load of ISK in a short amount of time... I swear I will start suiciding out of spite if CCP screws this up. Tonight was my first actual suicide gank I did it because I was bored () () (â;..;)â (")(")
Shintai Balad Naran Orbital Shipyards	Posted - 2008.06.03 10:05:00 - [11] Making a drama out of an incomplete context? Quote: without removing the ability to make premeditated strikes and so on. There's a balance to be struck that's close to what we have currently, but not exactly the same." Read everything next time. Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry
t1mmeh Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.06.03 10:07:00 - [12] Originally by: fuze There are far more silly carebears than childish griefers. You do the math. Unfortunately this ^^^ Money talks and as this game attracts more players (customers), CCP will do their damndest to keep hold of them. Unfortunately will mean they will need to make the game appeal more to the mainstream (i.e. make it more cuddly). But hey, there's always been workarounds in the past eh?
Surfin's PlunderBunny Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2008.06.03 10:08:00 - [13] Originally by: t1mmeh Originally by: fuze There are far more silly carebears than childish griefers. You do the math. Unfortunately this ^^^ Money talks and as this game attracts more players (customers), CCP will do their damndest to keep hold of them. Unfortunately will mean they will need to make the game appeal more to the mainstream (i.e. make it more cuddly). But hey, there's always been workarounds in the past eh? The weeklong stint when the Black Ops BS were released was great Gank- CYNO! () () (â;..;)â (")(")
Nianda SeCann	Posted - 2008.06.03 10:15:00 - [14] Originally by: Shintai Edited by: Shintai on 03/06/2008 10:07:10 Making a drama out of an incomplete context? Quote: without removing the ability to make premeditated strikes and so on. There's a balance to be struck that's close to what we have currently, but not exactly the same." Read everything next time. Oh, and complaining? Let me guess. You want easy risk free and cost free iskies? because real pvP is too hard for you? Oh cry more to your mommy! agreed with you here Shintai, makes you wonder how they missed the part about eve never being completly safe.
ollobrains2	Posted - 2008.06.03 10:19:00 - [15] maybe speed up some of the rewards farming might be a good start. Lower the jump clone timer to 12 hours as well
Cpt Branko Surge. NIght's Dawn	Posted - 2008.06.03 10:21:00 - [16] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 03/06/2008 10:22:05 Originally by: Bellum Eternus Tell me CCP, when is the hand holding going to stop? This. Also, "Greyscale: Absolutely safe zones aren't currently on our to-do list" - I damn well hope that it means "Greyscale: Absolutely safe zones aren't going to happen, ever", or something really bad is going on. Originally by: Euriti EVE is a hard, cold pvp game where every person lurks behind every corner ready to molest and murder you, take your belongings and laugh up your face, this is EVE, not wow. Quoted for absolute truth. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Zaknussem The Ironbreakers	Posted - 2008.06.03 10:37:00 - [17] OH NOES. Any attempts to bring a semblance of balance to EvE are instantly frowned upon as "catering to the carebears" by the vocal minority of "hardcore PvPers", even though it's only hinted at in a vague middle-of-the-road statement. When are the PvP whiners going to stop jumping to conclusions?
Thenoran Knights of MADD	Posted - 2008.06.03 10:40:00 - [18] Suicide ganking should remain viable, but I do hope that the adjustments they are talking about refer to the insurance problem which can make it nearly cost-free to suicide gank. ------------------------ Mining over 4000m3 per cycle...with a Rokh
Amastat Omegatech	Posted - 2008.06.03 10:41:00 - [19] Greyscale has given me the impression as CCP's attempt to appease teh carebears in all honestly and I don't know if I'd listen to everything he's saying and expect CCP to go for that. --- -- In the live blog on Empyrean Age, he said all sorts of stuff about Factional Warfare will act as a "bridge" between high-sec and low-sec, making the transition for carebears more easy. On this same topic, I have heard from other dev's the purpose of Factional Warfare was to create a new line of PvP, not a new source of missions. In other words - One dev says that Factional Warfare will act as a bridge, and help make carebears get into PvP more easily; but according to other devs, in reality, that one dev's speech is actaully on the very bottom of our to-do list, and CCP is more interested in making this a great PvP'ers expansion above all. It sounds like these things that were said was CCP's PR stunt if anything, why say anything if it's not going to happen anytime soon, if at all? --- -- So - this sounds a lot like Greyscale is doing the same thing. He's saying something that will not upset, or appease carebears, but in reality it's probably something on the very bottom on the priority list for CCP. Keep watching what Greyscale has to say in the future, sounds like he's CCP's spokespersons aimed at carebears if you ask me. ____________________ "All warfare is based on deception... we must seem unable...seem inactive...and crush him " - Sun Tzu
Cpt Branko Surge. NIght's Dawn	Posted - 2008.06.03 10:43:00 - [20] Originally by: Zaknussem OH NOES. Any attempts to bring a semblance of balance to EvE are instantly frowned upon as "catering to the carebears" by the vocal minority of "hardcore PvPers", even though it's only hinted at in a vague middle-of-the-road statement. Safety is not balance or EvE. It's better to stomp on ideas before they take a foothold. A response would be nice. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Adonis 4174	Posted - 2008.06.03 10:44:00 - [21] Do CONCORD jam drones yet? This entire change could be achieved by doing that. ---- Infiniband can do more than just prevent lag
Zaknussem The Ironbreakers	Posted - 2008.06.03 10:47:00 - [22] Originally by: Cpt Branko Safety is not balance or EvE. It's better to stomp on ideas before they take a foothold. A response would be nice. I was actually referring to the bolded part of the OP's post, but thank you for proving my point.
Wolfmoon Pack Of Pagans	Posted - 2008.06.03 10:48:00 - [23] Note that they did not say they were re-writing the game to cater to carebears. Get a grip on yourselves. There are certain mechanics that aren't balanced that they are going to 'tune', so that certain methods of griefing will go away, or at the least become very hard to perform. The only people that would be upset with grief exploits being locked out aren't real PvP'ers, they're simply childish cheating griefers. Those are the idiots that make a game like this NOT fun to play and deter the curious carebear from ever even trying pvp. In case you're too thick headed to get it, CCP is trying to make a game that will do all of the following; 1. Provide FUN 2. Appeal to carebears 3. Attract carebears to the pvp side of the game 4. Make CCP lots and lots of pretty monies. The order that the above appears in isn't important. What is important is that the kiddie griefer ******s need to realize that this isn't THEIR personal universe to exploit how they choose. Everyone has to work within the game mechanics, and when CCP realizes that the mechanics need changing and balancing to keep it fun and attract more users, that's what they are going to do. If it were your company, and you wanted it to be successful, you'd do the same. To say otherwise would be the same as admitting that you're terminally stupid or a liar, or both.
Veldya Guristari Freedom Fighters	Posted - 2008.06.03 10:49:00 - [24] Edited by: Veldya on 03/06/2008 10:49:55 They can leave the current ships as is, but they should release non-ORE barges and exhumers which have greater survivability. Base the Barge off a Cruiser and Exhumer off a Battlecruiser. It is pretty sad when you can't fit mining upgrades and drone upgrade rigs on a barge/exhumer because you are flying a slow moving glorified frigate. Nothing stopping someone blowing up a more defensive non-combat ship, just need more firepower.
Furb Killer The Peacekeeper Core	Posted - 2008.06.03 10:52:00 - [25] An awful lot of whining comes from those who whine at whining carebears.
Tippia School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.06.03 10:54:00 - [26] Originally by: Shintai Making a drama out of an incomplete context? Quote: without removing the ability to make premeditated strikes and so on. There's a balance to be struck that's close to what we have currently, but not exactly the same." Read everything next time. Oh, and complaining? Let me guess. You want easy risk free and cost free iskies? because real pvP is too hard for you? Oh cry more to your mommy! This, tbh. It's amazing how risk-adverse the so-called PvPers are in this game. Guess what? Risk vs. reward applies to you too. Suck it up.
Luh Windan Republic University	Posted - 2008.06.03 11:03:00 - [27] Originally by: Cpt Branko Also, "Greyscale: Absolutely safe zones aren't currently on our to-do list" - I damn well hope that it means "Greyscale: Absolutely safe zones aren't going to happen, ever", or something really bad is going on. I am constantly surprised that the developers bother to communicate with us at all. Everything they say is read with an agenda. Those that whine and cry every time they think that a carebear might have gained a slight advantage in one direction , those that whine and cry because they think everyone who is not a carebear is a griefer in the other direction. Even vague statements are taken as evidence for change that the poster does not like. Tto read this dev log as pro-carebear,when in a number of places they point out that they care about the philosophy of eve as being a harsh place as being important and even point out that nullsec and the alliances are their 'jewel in the crown', is quite an impressive feat of selective reading. Given that the one thing almost everyone seemed to pretty much agree on was changes to insurance for ganking then I would guess that is the change they are alluding to - and even so they are only saying that they are thinking about it. They think about an awful lot of things - we don't get to see a lot of them in the game.
Venkul Mul	Posted - 2008.06.03 11:08:00 - [28] Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny Originally by: t1mmeh Originally by: fuze There are far more silly carebears than childish griefers. You do the math. Unfortunately this ^^^ Money talks and as this game attracts more players (customers), CCP will do their damndest to keep hold of them. Unfortunately will mean they will need to make the game appeal more to the mainstream (i.e. make it more cuddly). But hey, there's always been workarounds in the past eh? The weeklong stint when the Black Ops BS were released was great Gank- CYNO! "We are PvPers, we are an elite. We only use exploits every chance we get." If you were a little less prone to use any exploit you can find, knowing perfectly well that it is an exploit you would have nothing to fear. Using the cyno capability of black ops after a suicide attack in high sec was a clear exploit (any system to avoid concord retaliation is an exploit as you should know) so you hadn't even the lame excuse of not knowing it was an exploit. Really you and those doing it should have ben hit hard with the ban hammer.
Veldya Guristari Freedom Fighters	Posted - 2008.06.03 11:13:00 - [29] Originally by: Luh Windan Originally by: Cpt Branko Also, "Greyscale: Absolutely safe zones aren't currently on our to-do list" - I damn well hope that it means "Greyscale: Absolutely safe zones aren't going to happen, ever", or something really bad is going on. I am constantly surprised that the developers bother to communicate with us at all. Everything they say is read with an agenda. Those that whine and cry every time they think that a carebear might have gained a slight advantage in one direction , those that whine and cry because they think everyone who is not a carebear is a griefer in the other direction. Even vague statements are taken as evidence for change that the poster does not like. Tto read this dev log as pro-carebear,when in a number of places they point out that they care about the philosophy of eve as being a harsh place as being important and even point out that nullsec and the alliances are their 'jewel in the crown', is quite an impressive feat of selective reading. Given that the one thing almost everyone seemed to pretty much agree on was changes to insurance for ganking then I would guess that is the change they are alluding to - and even so they are only saying that they are thinking about it. They think about an awful lot of things - we don't get to see a lot of them in the game. The difference is most carebears are PvPers as well. The difference is Carebears PvE to make money to do real PvP against combat ships, pirates shoot Carebears in defenseless ships to make money. EVE is pointless unless you PvP, everyone PvPs. It is just the time investment and risk vs reward of how you gain money to PvP. Some like to run missions, some like to mine, some like to profit on blowing up those that are trying to make some money. At the end of the day, there is no real risk factor for Pirates. Carebears absorb the whole risk because there is zip, nada they can do to protect themselves from pirates. With insurance kickbacks a Pirates knows how much they are going to lose after insurane and how much they need to make for it to be worthwile and the break-even point is ridiculously low, to the point it is almost risk free. A more survivable PvE ship or loss of insurance on concord deaths would put more emphasis on the pirates having to bear some of the risk element.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Insurgency	Posted - 2008.06.03 11:19:00 - [30] Originally by: Armoured C it probably to do with the bounty hunting thing that my guess anyway, i highly doubt that they will alter anything to massive extent as he said he knows that isnt eve If they're going to reform the bounty system then this is 9cautiously) good news. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.

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