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Nighthawk vs Tengu vs Rattlesnake

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Octavious0506 Universal Might DSM FOUNDATION 0	Posted - 2012.03.10 02:55:00 - [1] - Quote I am looking for a Lvl 4 mission ship and complex runner. Can you experienced pilots please rate each of these in terms of Best DPS Best Passive Tank Thanks
Zhilia Mann Tide Way Out Productions 353	Posted - 2012.03.10 03:07:00 - [2] - Quote One thread wasn't enough for you? Rattler has the best passive tank, followed by NH (especially against kin/therm enemies), followed by Tengu. Tengu generally wins on applied damage, but NH is close. Rattler it really depends on how you fit it but in a full passive tank setup (no SDAs, no painters) it's going to lose out.
Unimaginative Guy Dutch Squad Chained Reactions 6	Posted - 2012.03.10 03:08:00 - [3] - Quote tengu will win hands down. its tank isnt passive but its cap stable and gets really really high Heavy Missile dps out to 100km
PotatoOverdose Royal Black Watch Highlanders Flatline. 44	Posted - 2012.03.10 04:02:00 - [4] - Quote Tengu will also take less damage than the other two due to its speed and sig.
Anastriana Deninard M'Tar Deadspace Guard Concordiat Alliance 1	Posted - 2012.03.10 07:07:00 - [5] - Quote Level 4 Mission Golem Complexes Tengu
Bumblefck Kerensky Initiatives 2926	Posted - 2012.03.10 10:43:00 - [6] - Quote Anastriana Deninard wrote: Level 4 Mission Golem Complexes Tengu The OP didn't mention the Golem, learn to read for ****'s sakes. Passive tank: (from best to worst) Rattlesnake NH Tengu DPS: Tengu NH Rattlesnake (assuming a tard-level passive fit, of course...active fit it can do a smidgen under 1000 dps). ---- CONCORD arrested two n00bs yesterday, one was drinking battery acid, the other was eating fireworks. They charged one and let the other one off.
Liam Mirren 323	Posted - 2012.03.10 11:52:00 - [7] - Quote Yup, don't believe the "lol tengu is best at everything LULZ" nonsense hype, it's an easy ship to use though as long as you do missions that are kin/therm based, it's fast and generally uses stable fits. The NH is kinda on par dps wise (counting its drones) but it's more difficult to train for and slower but it has more tank going for it (again kin/therm mostly). The Rattler is a droneboat (no use if you don't have T2 sentries) and ppl rave about it although most don't really know why it's supposed to be good (it isn't, for lvl 4s). Droneboats are slow dps due to drone handling, thing is though that unlike the other 2 it can work outside kin/therm missions without issues. So if you do kin/therm missions then tengu will be fastest, NH will be second and Rattler will be third, don't let EFT dps fool you, as stated a droneboat loses so much time handling drone aggro (apart from that it can't move when using sentries so it'll have to slowboat to gates) that the applied dps is fairly low, it's also boring as ****. Outside kin/therm missions the Rattler will be better due to easier tanking and damage type selection. If you look outside the options you gave I'd check out the CNR, applied dps is certainly on par with a tengu while it can switch damage type for tanking as dps without problems, making it more allround. For complexes it depends on which and where you do them, generally a Tengu is very nice there (again, assuming kin/therm) the really difficult ones a rattler will be quite good. Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude. My guides: http://mirren.freeforums.org
Octavious0506 Universal Might DSM FOUNDATION 0	Posted - 2012.03.10 12:33:00 - [8] - Quote Thanks for the comments, so maybe I should also consider the CNR and Golem?
McRoll Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic 36	Posted - 2012.03.10 13:11:00 - [9] - Quote You can disregard Rattler and Nighthawk because they are subpar in their roles for missionrunning (Rattler vs Golem) and Nighthawk vs Tengu (plexing). Go Tengu for exploration and Golem for missioning. You will have the Tengu skilled up earlier so start with that, it will also do a good job in missions until you skilled up for Golem.
rogue lawyer New Edens United Nation 0	Posted - 2012.03.11 19:35:00 - [10] - Quote The Rattlesnake is a good ship, but dont expect to have fast mission times on it. It is in essence a pure out and out afk drone boat, yes it has missiles but they are a secondary weapons system to drones, be they T2 Sentry's or Heavies. Although the slot lay out means that it can configured to have a high amount of dps, but if u want dps better off using a Golem, or Navy Raven.

rogue lawyer New Edens United Nation 0	Posted - 2012.03.11 19:36:00 - [11] - Quote The Rattlesnake is a good ship, but dont expect to have fast mission times on it. It is in essence a pure out and out afk drone boat, yes it has missiles but they are a secondary weapons system to drones, be they T2 Sentry's or Heavies. Although the slot lay out means that it can configured to have a high amount of dps, but if u want dps better off using a Golem, or Navy Raven.
Cedo Nulli Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 74	Posted - 2012.03.12 04:36:00 - [12] - Quote The people who mentioned golem as the level 4 runner .... they really need to get out more and test new things. As golem pilot I urge you not to waste SP by going down that trail. Marauders overall need to be looked at. Overall winner from your list is tengu and for the less active playstyle rattler.
Mike712 BattleClinic 47	Posted - 2012.03.12 12:36:00 - [13] - Quote Octavious0506 wrote: Thanks for the comments, so maybe I should also consider the CNR and Golem? CNR is the best all rounder, it out damages a tengu before you factor in drones and has fully selectable damage type. Golem is poor TBH, only good for a few missions which are battleship heavy, close range and the NPCs are slow, Aggel battleships for instance will speed tank most of a golems DPS on approach. If you could have only 1, CNR would be the first choice, tengu would be second. Regards, Mike712 The BattleClinic Team
Boz Wel Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2012.03.12 14:15:00 - [14] - Quote These days I just tend to keep multiple ships (i.e., toys) in the hangar. My default ship these days is a Nighthawk with a perma-running active tank, as I find it's got a nice balance of tank, DPS and speed. With 4 BCU's and fury missiles, the DPS is decent and I tend to blitz missions with 2 accounts, so the fact that it doesn't require any micromanagement helps a lot. It's decently fast too for the missions where you have a lot of travel time and/or have to loot an item. That said, I typically pair it with a high gank gun boat of some flavor and run through missions quite quickly. If I only had 1 ship that I had to run all my missions with, I may consider something with a bit more gank. Really though I think it depends on your preferred playstyle, e.g., a Tengu is going to require you to pay a lot more attention than a Rattler.
Lone Crusader Legion of Fury 0	Posted - 2012.03.12 15:30:00 - [15] - Quote as a solo lvl4 runner i use the tengu, i used to fly nighthawk which i loved maxed out on skills to fly these as passive or active tanked and cap stable i can take on 99% of lvl4s without worr couple of things to conside cost o fittings time to trai tank vs dp gang/fleet vs sol nighthawk great tank even better if in fleet w/booster active or passive depending on how much dps you want to dish out a lot of this is in the fittings, i used to use an auto targeter in the extra high slot extra target plus targets for you if you want to be lazy, another up side is drones nice for taking down frigs so you can put your missiles to good use, on that topic heavy missiles are great for cruiser and bs rats, if you active tank and use an ab you can move around nicely grabbing the loot and making yourself harder to hit, if not trained up yet for the nighthawk the drake is a great tank for the omw to a nighthawk pilo tengu much like the nighthawk, my favorite thing is the adaptability of it, if you want to swap for passive or active tanking maybe switch to rails instead of missiles want to be sneaky? the modular ships is awesome and gives an almost endless possibility of fittings, i currently run mine with navy faction setup (this is very expensive and probably not practical and very over excessive on the other hand there are the larger bulkier battle ships, BS need target painters if you want to optimize on damage which means less of a tank, now if you want pure dps then these big ships are what you want, assuming you are already tanking with the domi and are not having problems with it i would recommend using just a raven as it is more cost effective raven set up with torps use navy ammunition if you want a boost to dps launch drones on smaller rats max out the lows with bcu II's arbalest torp launchers in the highs target painters and AB in the mids and if you want put a 2 rail guns in the last2 high slots for pure damage output 3 bay thruster rigs wil get you to around 39km range (you dont need to use the damage or rate of fire rigs because the 5 bcu II will optimize on your bonuses from ship modules also dont foget about your implants they make a huge difference in the long run, the extra 5% rate of fire and the 5% damage bonus is nice or 3% if you dont want to spend a lot of is all and all on a final note it comes down to fittings, skills, and the amount of isk you want to spend/ sav feel free to eve mail me for fittings and opinion
OfBalance Caldari State 156	Posted - 2012.03.12 16:21:00 - [16] - Quote Lone Crusader wrote: raven set up with torps use navy ammunition if you want a boost to dps launch drones on smaller rats max out the lows with bcu II'sarbalest torp launchers in the highs target painters and AB in the mids and if you want put a 2 rail guns in the last2 high slots for pure damage output 3 bay thruster rigs wil get you to around 39km range (you dont need to use the damage or rate of fire rigs because the 5 bcu II will optimize on your bonuses from ship modules lmao
Anastriana Deninard M'Tar Deadspace Guard Concordiat Alliance 1	Posted - 2012.03.13 02:47:00 - [17] - Quote Bumblefck wrote: Anastriana Deninard wrote: Level 4 Mission Golem Complexes Tengu The OP didn't mention the Golem, learn to read for ****'s sakes. Passive tank: (from best to worst) Rattlesnake NH Tengu DPS: Tengu NH Rattlesnake (assuming a tard-level passive fit, of course...active fit it can do a smidgen under 1000 dps). And yet the Golem was still brought into this post...... sometimes the wrong ship is put there on purpose, in this case it takes almost as long to get to a nighthawk as a golem
Samroski Games Inc. EVE Trade Consortium 45	Posted - 2012.03.13 04:47:00 - [18] - Quote Cedo Nulli wrote: The people who mentioned golem as the level 4 runner .... they really need to get out more and test new things. As golem pilot I urge you not to waste SP by going down that trail. Marauders overall need to be looked at. Overall winner from your list is tengu and for the less active playstyle rattler. This
Lone Crusader Legion of Fury 0	Posted - 2012.03.13 06:41:00 - [19] - Quote OfBalance wrote: Lone Crusader wrote: raven set up with torps use navy ammunition if you want a boost to dps launch drones on smaller rats max out the lows with bcu II'sarbalest torp launchers in the highs target painters and AB in the mids and if you want put a 2 rail guns in the last2 high slots for pure damage output 3 bay thruster rigs wil get you to around 39km range (you dont need to use the damage or rate of fire rigs because the 5 bcu II will optimize on your bonuses from ship modules lmao hmmmm must of gotten my post readings mixed up my bad thought he was looking for a dps support ship..... got to be sober next time i go and post anyhow..... go tengu for its vast options raven run on a 2nd account if you want to go the caldari route for missions
Thistlefury Whenever you walk by 0	Posted - 2012.03.14 01:04:00 - [20] - Quote Cedo Nulli wrote: The people who mentioned golem as the level 4 runner .... they really need to get out more and test new things. As golem pilot I urge you not to waste SP by going down that trail. Marauders overall need to be looked at. Overall winner from your list is tengu and for the less active playstyle rattler. Wooowoooot ? What planet are you from sir ? The golem is an absolute beast when it comes to missions. The added salvage/loot isk income is good aswell. Probably _the_ best mission ship, except for missions with alot of traveldistance.. but for those you use a tengu and blitz it.

Charlie Crocodile Sorfus Morfus 9	Posted - 2012.03.16 10:20:00 - [21] - Quote Thistlefury wrote: Cedo Nulli wrote: The people who mentioned golem as the level 4 runner .... they really need to get out more and test new things. As golem pilot I urge you not to waste SP by going down that trail. Marauders overall need to be looked at. Overall winner from your list is tengu and for the less active playstyle rattler. Wooowoooot ? What planet are you from sir ? The golem is an absolute beast when it comes to missions. The added salvage/loot isk income is good aswell. Probably _the_ best mission ship, except for missions with alot of traveldistance.. but for those you use a tengu and blitz it. coughMacharielcough And the Golem might be a beast on certain BS laden missions when it can get in close and actually apply some of its paper DPS, but its pretty average overall compared to some other more flexible mission runners- Tengu or CNR.
Haulin Gneiss babymuncho Corp 25	Posted - 2012.03.18 03:08:00 - [22] - Quote I fly a cruise golem with tractors. Yes it's less dps than a cnr but with two republic painters and t2 cruise it still kicks ass. I can target and hit stuff at 110k and pop battle ships in 5 volley, cruisers in 1, and the drones clean the rest. All in the cnr is prolly better but I like the cap stability of the golem. Never had to warp a mission with full aggro on every mission.
OfBalance Caldari State 178	Posted - 2012.03.18 03:27:00 - [23] - Quote Haulin Gneiss wrote: I fly a cruise golem The difference between Cruise Golem and CNR loosing 1/4th and 1/7th of your volley damage to defender missiles. If that's worth being cap stable to you, fair enough, but it is far from a marginal dps loss.
RougeOperator Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance 164	Posted - 2012.03.18 03:43:00 - [24] - Quote Rokh with 4 mag stabs and 425 rails. You would be surprised. But then if you trained missiles over rails its not much help.
OfBalance Caldari State 178	Posted - 2012.03.18 04:29:00 - [25] - Quote RougeOperator wrote: Rokh with 4 mag stabs and 425 rails. It's not a bad alternative to the bog-standard Raven, but there is no progression to it unless you want to crosstrain for a vindi or kronos. Of course, getting as far as the tengu/heavy missiles and then cross-training is most certainly ideal if you're chasing what's good today.
RougeOperator Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance 164	Posted - 2012.03.18 07:18:00 - [26] - Quote OfBalance wrote: RougeOperator wrote: Rokh with 4 mag stabs and 425 rails. It's not a bad alternative to the bog-standard Raven, but there is no progression to it unless you want to crosstrain for a vindi or kronos. Of course, getting as far as the tengu/heavy missiles and then cross-training is most certainly ideal if you're chasing what's good today. Its got the tank he wanted and the same DPS then a CNR with Anti out to 70 km optimal Depending on if you want to do TE or Tracking Comps. Being able to use Antimatter almost 30 km further then other rail ships thanks to its optimal bonus more then makes up for the lack of damage bonus. You kill almost anything before it gets into drone range. And You can use the mids for tank and even passive it easily while not losing gank. Also turrets do instant damage which helps keep you from wasting shoots. Then its easy to crossover to vindi or kronos like you said.
OfBalance Caldari State 178	Posted - 2012.03.18 07:33:00 - [27] - Quote RougeOperator wrote: Its got the tank he wanted and the same DPS then a CNR with Anti out to 70 km optimal Depending on if you want to do TE or Tracking Comps. Being able to use Antimatter almost 30 km further then other rail ships thanks to its optimal bonus more then makes up for the lack of damage bonus. You kill almost anything before it gets into drone range. I would like to see the fits you are comparing. I have little doubt the rokh is as-good-or-better than the raven (and said as much), but calling it better than a CNR sounds far-fetched. RougeOperator wrote: Also turrets do instant damage which helps keep you from wasting shoots. No argument there, counting volleys sucks. However, if you can stomach that you'll be doing quite well in a CNR as your dps projection is on par with a rokh shooting long-range ammo while achieving better volley damage (delay not withstanding) and being able to do so with any damage type. RougeOperator wrote: Then its easy to crossover to vindi or kronos like you said. Again, fair point, but if we're on about cross training wouldn't the player in question have been better served simply cross training beforehand?
RougeOperator Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance 164	Posted - 2012.03.18 08:06:00 - [28] - Quote Selectable damage type is what the CNR has over a Rokh. I Have run both in missions before but cause i have been testing Rokh since patch i found some interesting things. With anti is has more DPS then the CNR using faction missiles. Not by much but it doesn't need TPs and micro management to do the same job either and you can clear up all the frigs before they get close and not have to use drones at all. No lost DPS due to Defenders and exp velocity and radius the reload time is great as well. You can use rig slots to tank not rigors as well. And against the rats he is going to be shooting it will clean up just as fast since its hitting both the arm and shield weakness in that range. Only things it does not do well against is EM weak rats. But It did not do so bad even against them and I was actually finding it just as fast as arty mission maels against angel rats at long range that was a surprise to me. But hitting everything in optimal range rather then some falloff was huge. And being able to use the new improved jav ammo for more DPS and tracking for rats the move in close is great as well. Its apples and oranges. Rokh wins just in pure ease of use and tank for me.
Wuxi Wuxilla Wuxi Corporation 5	Posted - 2012.03.18 08:15:00 - [29] - Quote Quote: [Raven Navy Issue, !] Dread Guristas Ballistic Control System Dread Guristas Ballistic Control System Dread Guristas Ballistic Control System Dread Guristas Ballistic Control System Co-Processor II Dread Guristas X-Large Shield Booster Photon Scattering Field II Photon Scattering Field II Heat Dissipation Field II Shield Boost Amplifier II Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Trauma Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Trauma Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Trauma Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Trauma Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Trauma Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Trauma Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Trauma Cruise Missile [empty high slot] Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II Large Warhead Flare Catalyst I Hammerhead II x5 Quote: [Rokh, Rail Rhok] Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Dread Guristas X-Large Shield Booster Photon Scattering Field II Photon Scattering Field II Heat Dissipation Field II Shield Boost Amplifier II Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Large Hybrid Burst Aerator II Large Ancillary Current Router I [empty rig slot] Hammerhead II x5 Just for a quick comparison of fits The Rokh does 698.1 gundps out to 70+49km with CN Antimatter The CNR does 681.3 missile dps out to lock range with CN Missiles The Rokh has the vastly superior tank, the CNR has dmg selection.
OfBalance Caldari State 178	Posted - 2012.03.18 08:23:00 - [30] - Quote RougeOperator wrote: Rokh wins just in pure ease of use and tank for me. Indeed, everything wins over missile ships (except the tengu) for ease of use and tank these days. Having done the EFT work myself now, it would appear, using t1 ammo and four damage mods as a base for comparison, the anti-matter rokh does have more than enough damage at effective range to match the CNR. I guess cruise missiles are comparatively worse than I remembered.

RougeOperator Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance 164	Posted - 2012.03.18 08:38:00 - [31] - Quote OfBalance wrote: RougeOperator wrote: Rokh wins just in pure ease of use and tank for me. Indeed, everything wins over missile ships (except the tengu) for ease of use and tank these days. Having done the EFT work myself now, it would appear, using t1 ammo and four damage mods as a base for comparison, the anti-matter rokh does have more than enough damage at effective range to match the CNR. I guess cruise missiles are comparatively worse than I remembered. No they just buffed hybrids. You can fit a full rack of 425s without being left with no way to fit a proper tank now. And gave it more damage and tracking and the 5 second reload time boosts its DPS as well. I only talk about the Rokh now cause i actually tested it in game after checking the EFT numbers. I dont like making a claim I have not tested first hand. The turret advantages just outweigh using missiles to me. EDIT: I also like not having to think about changing damage types mission to mission. As long as its not EM hole rats you can clear most missions easily in the space bus. You want to see something crazy do a Blaster Rokh in eft. With a TE or two you get huge range with null ammo on blasters. Its amazing to clear Angel missions with a Blaster Rokh. Its a lot of fun. Im not done testing that though. Mega, Domi, Kronos, Vindi, Rokh all became much better mission ships since patch. Next ship im going to test is a sentry rail domi.
OfBalance Caldari State 178	Posted - 2012.03.18 08:41:00 - [32] - Quote RougeOperator wrote: No they just buffed hybrids. "Comparatively worse," as in "compared to the new hyrbids, they are worse." So you see, we actually agree. I think you missed my concession in that post. vOv I would love to test the rokh myself, but that would require me to run missions that aren't epic arcs (which I refuse to run in anything but a t3 thanks to all the jumping across the galaxy). I don't want to run missions. Please don't make me run missions.
RougeOperator Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance 164	Posted - 2012.03.18 08:47:00 - [33] - Quote OfBalance wrote: RougeOperator wrote: No they just buffed hybrids. "Comparatively worse," as in "compared to the new hyrbids, they are worse." So you see, we actually agree. I think you missed my concession in that post. vOv I would love to test the rokh myself, but that would require me to run missions that aren't epic arcs (which I refuse to run in anything but a t3 thanks to all the jumping across the galaxy). I don't want to run missions. Please don't make me run missions. Cant blame you. But if you know you are going against Rats weak to Hybrids Rohk is fantastic now. Especially in sites when the stupid rat spawns can be far off.
Raven Ether Republic University Minmatar Republic 110	Posted - 2012.03.18 09:50:00 - [34] - Quote With the Tengu you have to be glued constantly switching targets and managing speed, shield boosters distance , reloading, not to mention that it eats up a lot of ammo. Some commonly ignored facts by eftwarriors about the Tengu
OfBalance Caldari State 179	Posted - 2012.03.18 09:58:00 - [35] - Quote Raven Ether wrote: constantly switching targets Indeed, 5 target max sucks. Raven Ether wrote: and managing speed Uh... wat? Just orbit the acceleration gate. There's nothing to manage there. Raven Ether wrote: shield boosters distance Ok, now i'm really lost. Raven Ether wrote: reloading, not to mention that it eats up a lot of ammo. Reloading also sucks, but it eats up no more ammo than any AC ship and scourge/trauma heavies are p. damn cheap.
Mike Whiite Progressive State 32	Posted - 2012.03.19 11:40:00 - [36] - Quote CNR has a proper answer to Gurista jammers, Missile ships are have better answers to e-war in general, missiles always hit their targets, loss due to explosion radius can be coutered with tp and skill. EFT is not sacred.
OfBalance Caldari State 184	Posted - 2012.03.19 15:47:00 - [37] - Quote Mike Whiite wrote: CNR has a proper answer to Gurista jammers, Missile ships are have better answers to e-war in general, missiles always hit their targets, loss due to explosion radius can be coutered with tp and skill. Sansha carry the only (tracking disruptor) ewar biased toward missiles, unless you count FoF missiles being greater than having decent sensor strength which then only applies to guided missiles. Also, target painters and missile support skills do not make up for the fact low transversal targets of any size can be volley'd. There are very few pve situations where "always hit," is in any way preferable to being able to volley incoming frigs.
Daniel Plain Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 8	Posted - 2012.03.19 16:29:00 - [38] - Quote Wuxi Wuxilla wrote: Just for a quick comparison of fits The Rokh does 698.1 gundps out to 70+49km with CN Antimatter The CNR does 681.3 missile dps out to lock range with CN Missiles The Rokh has the vastly superior tank, the CNR has dmg selection. just out of laziness, can you drop me that rokh fit?


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