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Marcus Druallis Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.06.08 19:36:00 - [1] Why does the pilgrim get hosed and does not get the range bonus of it's specialized EW like every other Force Recon. The Devs should remove the damage bonus (that other Force Recons do NOT recieve) and replace it with a range bonus like the Curse. Why would this not work? --
Lord WarATron Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.06.08 19:40:00 - [2] Edited by: Lord WarATron on 08/06/2008 19:41:58 Originally by: Marcus Druallis Why does the pilgrim get hosed and does not get the range bonus of it's specialized EW like every other Force Recon. The Devs should remove the damage bonus (that other Force Recons do NOT recieve) and replace it with a range bonus like the Curse. Why would this not work? CCP have stated that they are looking into changing the bonus of the Pilgrim. The Pilgrim will no longer have a joke of a bonus as it has currently, and will insted, have a bonus to Cargo Capacity to improve its current role of cov ops hauler. The Skill requirements will also be changed from Amarr Cruiser 5 to Amarr Industral lvl5 to better match this role. Pilgrim is a excellent ship since it can go 1kms+ with a full rack of EW, NOS, Cargo Expanders and Cargo rigs and still have bonused drones. This means that you can NOS/EW/Drone anything attackign this hauler and it really is overpowered in the hauler league. I also hope CCP slightly reduce the mass of the pilgrim, to make it easier for its partner, the Jumpdrive Hauler Redeemer, to portal it easier. With that said, the Cargo Expander Redeemer has exactly enough Cargo to portal the Pilgrim and jump out. -- Billion Isk Mission
Umar Khattab Federation Zone Operations Command	Posted - 2008.06.08 19:49:00 - [3] Originally by: Lord WarATron Edited by: Lord WarATron on 08/06/2008 19:41:58 Originally by: Marcus Druallis Why does the pilgrim get hosed and does not get the range bonus of it's specialized EW like every other Force Recon. The Devs should remove the damage bonus (that other Force Recons do NOT recieve) and replace it with a range bonus like the Curse. Why would this not work? CCP have stated that they are looking into changing the bonus of the Pilgrim. The Pilgrim will no longer have a joke of a bonus as it has currently, and will insted, have a bonus to Cargo Capacity to improve its current role of cov ops hauler. The Skill requirements will also be changed from Amarr Cruiser 5 to Amarr Industral lvl5 to better match this role. Pilgrim is a excellent ship since it can go 1kms+ with a full rack of EW, NOS, Cargo Expanders and Cargo rigs and still have bonused drones. This means that you can NOS/EW/Drone anything attackign this hauler and it really is overpowered in the hauler league. I also hope CCP slightly reduce the mass of the pilgrim, to make it easier for its partner, the Jumpdrive Hauler Redeemer, to portal it easier. With that said, the Cargo Expander Redeemer has exactly enough Cargo to portal the Pilgrim and jump out. What a load of crap! _______________________________ "Nothing succeeds like excess" -Oscar Wilde
Caelum Dominus Invicta.	Posted - 2008.06.08 20:26:00 - [4] Originally by: Marcus Druallis Why does the pilgrim get hosed and does not get the range bonus of it's specialized EW like every other Force Recon. The Devs should remove the damage bonus (that other Force Recons do NOT recieve) and replace it with a range bonus like the Curse. Why would this not work? Replacing either the drain amount bonus or the drone damage bonus with a drain range bonus are indeed interesting ideas, however I'd have to admit that I would slightly miss the concept of the crazy solo tank-boat that the Pilgrim currently is. ^^
Erotic Irony 0bsession	Posted - 2008.06.08 20:41:00 - [5] Originally by: Lord WarATron CCP have stated that they are looking into changing the bonus of the Pilgrim. The Pilgrim will no longer have a joke of a bonus as it has currently, and will insted, have a bonus to Cargo Capacity to improve its current role of cov ops hauler. The Skill requirements will also be changed from Amarr Cruiser 5 to Amarr Industral lvl5 to better match this role. Pilgrim is a excellent ship since it can go 1kms+ with a full rack of EW, NOS, Cargo Expanders and Cargo rigs and still have bonused drones. This means that you can NOS/EW/Drone anything attackign this hauler and it really is overpowered in the hauler league. I also hope CCP slightly reduce the mass of the pilgrim, to make it easier for its partner, the Jumpdrive Hauler Redeemer, to portal it easier. With that said, the Cargo Expander Redeemer has exactly enough Cargo to portal the Pilgrim and jump out. Can't be said enough. Mail me for free Redeemer BPCs :( ___ Eve Players are not very smart. Support Killmail Overhaul
Cailais VITOC	Posted - 2008.06.08 22:15:00 - [6] I say remove the tracking disruptor bonus (which is useless) and give it a 7.5% armor repair amount bonus / level. C. VITOC - Amarr Corp for Faction Warfare!
Erotic Irony 0bsession	Posted - 2008.06.08 22:18:00 - [7] Originally by: Cailais I say remove the tracking disruptor bonus (which is useless) and give it a 7.5% armor repair amount bonus / level. C. It doesn't have the hit-points or resistance to make use of that rep. What about giving it a bonus to neut drones or enhancing its bandwidth to 100m3. ___ Eve Players are not very smart. Support Killmail Overhaul
Kira Pasisson M'8'S Frontal Impact	Posted - 2008.06.08 22:19:00 - [8] Edited by: Kira Pasisson on 08/06/2008 22:19:42 well, as a cloaker the pilgrim can get close to a target unseen, so the range is not that important, furthermore it is able to field an impressive tank, which neither the falcon or the rapier are able to have if they still want to do what they are supposed to do....the damage bonus+the neut-ability makes the pilgrim a really nasty 1vs1 pvp ship, and a mess if u know u have one in ur 00 space, picking its targets...i think the pilgrim got a good role and should stay as it is, coz it is already quite strong in its supposed role and btw, the tracking disruptor bonus is a good one for this role, it just needs to avoid missile-boats, but i guess every ship got some others, it better is not engaging solo...
Erotic Irony 0bsession	Posted - 2008.06.08 22:23:00 - [9] Originally by: Kira Pasisson Edited by: Kira Pasisson on 08/06/2008 22:19:42 well, as a cloaker the pilgrim can get close to a target unseen, so the range is not that important, furthermore it is able to field an impressive tank, which neither the falcon or the rapier are able to have if they still want to do what they are supposed to do....the damage bonus+the neut-ability makes the pilgrim a really nasty 1vs1 pvp ship, and a mess if u know u have one in ur 00 space, picking its targets...i think the pilgrim got a good role and should stay as it is, coz it is already quite strong in its supposed role and btw, the tracking disruptor bonus is a good one for this role, it just needs to avoid missile-boats, but i guess every ship got some others, it better is not engaging solo... Pilot details - Kira Pasisson Cerberus 117 Vulture79 Falcon 69 Onyx 27 Nighthawk 8 Eagle 7 Manticore 3 Harpy 2 Rook 2 ___ Eve Players are not very smart. Support Killmail Overhaul
Mrski Okupator The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.06.08 22:25:00 - [10] Originally by: Lord WarATron Edited by: Lord WarATron on 08/06/2008 19:41:58 CCP have stated that they are looking into changing the bonus of the Pilgrim. The Pilgrim will no longer have a joke of a bonus as it has currently, and will insted, have a bonus to Cargo Capacity to improve its current role of cov ops hauler. The Skill requirements will also be changed from Amarr Cruiser 5 to Amarr Industral lvl5 to better match this role. Pilgrim is a excellent ship since it can go 1kms+ with a full rack of EW, NOS, Cargo Expanders and Cargo rigs and still have bonused drones. This means that you can NOS/EW/Drone anything attackign this hauler and it really is overpowered in the hauler league. I also hope CCP slightly reduce the mass of the pilgrim, to make it easier for its partner, the Jumpdrive Hauler Redeemer, to portal it easier. With that said, the Cargo Expander Redeemer has exactly enough Cargo to portal the Pilgrim and jump out. So sad; but so true. ___

Atomos Darksun Infortunatus Eventus	Posted - 2008.06.08 22:27:00 - [11] If you give the Pilgrim a range bonus the Curse will become just the same as the Rook. Rep bonus or something, perhaps make it a strictly TD boat. Originally by: Amoxin My vent is talking to me in a devil voice... Atomos' Guide to Forum Flaming
Storm Strike	Posted - 2008.06.08 22:28:00 - [12] The pilgrim is fine . I know you all want to nano it and zoom around nueting people so how about flying a curse instead.
Arvald The Ninjapirates	Posted - 2008.06.08 22:32:00 - [13] Originally by: Erotic Irony Originally by: Kira Pasisson Edited by: Kira Pasisson on 08/06/2008 22:19:42 well, as a cloaker the pilgrim can get close to a target unseen, so the range is not that important, furthermore it is able to field an impressive tank, which neither the falcon or the rapier are able to have if they still want to do what they are supposed to do....the damage bonus+the neut-ability makes the pilgrim a really nasty 1vs1 pvp ship, and a mess if u know u have one in ur 00 space, picking its targets...i think the pilgrim got a good role and should stay as it is, coz it is already quite strong in its supposed role and btw, the tracking disruptor bonus is a good one for this role, it just needs to avoid missile-boats, but i guess every ship got some others, it better is not engaging solo... Pilot details - Kira Pasisson Cerberus 117 Vulture79 Falcon 69 Onyx 27 Nighthawk 8 Eagle 7 Manticore 3 Harpy 2 Rook 2 is that ships killed or ships used to get kills? Originally by: Xanos Blackpaw Stealthbomber combat(or as i like to call it: Just because you are paranoid dont mean there isnt a invissible demon about to eat your face)
Marcus Druallis Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.06.08 22:40:00 - [14] Originally by: Atomos Darksun If you give the Pilgrim a range bonus the Curse will become just the same as the Rook. Rep bonus or something, perhaps make it a strictly TD boat. What about Huggin? You know why the only reason the Curse is so common compared to the other Combat Recons? Because the other races Force Recons get the range bonus, which is so useful (obviously). But, you know, just keep saying how the pilgrim is fine, Im sure you'll eventually convince yourself. --
RuleoftheBone Ataraxia.	Posted - 2008.06.08 22:48:00 - [15] Originally by: Arvald Originally by: Erotic Irony Originally by: Kira Pasisson Edited by: Kira Pasisson on 08/06/2008 22:19:42 well, as a cloaker the pilgrim can get close to a target unseen, so the range is not that important, furthermore it is able to field an impressive tank, which neither the falcon or the rapier are able to have if they still want to do what they are supposed to do....the damage bonus+the neut-ability makes the pilgrim a really nasty 1vs1 pvp ship, and a mess if u know u have one in ur 00 space, picking its targets...i think the pilgrim got a good role and should stay as it is, coz it is already quite strong in its supposed role and btw, the tracking disruptor bonus is a good one for this role, it just needs to avoid missile-boats, but i guess every ship got some others, it better is not engaging solo... Pilot details - Kira Pasisson Cerberus 117 Vulture79 Falcon 69 Onyx 27 Nighthawk 8 Eagle 7 Manticore 3 Harpy 2 Rook 2 is that ships killed or ships used to get kills? Pointing out Caldari pilot commentary on other ships....because Caldari are terrified of other races generally speaking . Erotic is helpful that way when not making fun of Stealth Bombers . Oh...and Kira....Falcon has no tank. Rapier can field a decent buffer and combine speed/webs for another kind of tank. The more you know Oh...and with 14 days left until I can start flying the Pilgrim...I'll take any ole boost...although some sort of either neut/nos range bonus improvement or even something new...like magical cap regen a la a certain logistic ship would be handy eliminating the need for stupid mid-slot wasting items like cap boosters, batteries, and other junk. Even a hair more CPU would be handy. Arazu, Rapier, and Falcon are probe-fit-friendly with Recon V...the Pilgrim requires faction this and that to do the same thing. I cant WAIT to fly it tbh . "Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
Atomos Darksun Infortunatus Eventus	Posted - 2008.06.08 22:51:00 - [16] Originally by: Marcus Druallis What about Huggin? You know why the only reason the Curse is so common compared to the other Combat Recons? Because the other races Force Recons get the range bonus, which is so useful (obviously). But, you know, just keep saying how the pilgrim is fine, Im sure you'll eventually convince yourself. I never said the Pilgrim was fine. It's a piece of **, that's a fact. But you can't give it the same range bonus the Curse has, because then you have a Curse that can cloak. Why have a curse when you can just do it with that Pilgrim? Maybe give it half the range bonus the curse has, so it still has to operate within Point range but not in the web/death zone. Or something completely different, like make it a strictly awesome TD boat. Originally by:** Amoxin My vent is talking to me in a devil voice... Atomos' Guide to Forum Flaming
Lyria Skydancer Eve Defence Force Insurgency	Posted - 2008.06.08 23:18:00 - [17] Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 08/06/2008 23:18:53 Originally by: Storm Strike The pilgrim is fine . I know you all want to nano it and zoom around nueting people so how about flying a curse instead. How about we remove range bonuses from ALL the other force recons? I know you all want to zoom around and web, ecm and WD people from range and nano it. How about flying a huginn, rook and lachesis instead? Anyone who thinks that pilgrim is fine compared to the other force recons like rapier and falcon need their head examined.
Marcus Druallis Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.06.09 00:17:00 - [18] Originally by: Atomos Darksun Originally by: Marcus Druallis What about Huggin? You know why the only reason the Curse is so common compared to the other Combat Recons? Because the other races Force Recons get the range bonus, which is so useful (obviously). But, you know, just keep saying how the pilgrim is fine, Im sure you'll eventually convince yourself. I never said the Pilgrim was fine. It's a piece of **, that's a fact. But you can't give it the same range bonus the Curse has, because then you have a Curse that can cloak. Why have a curse when you can just do it with that Pilgrim? Maybe give it half the range bonus the curse has, so it still has to operate within Point range but not in the web/death zone. Or something completely different, like make it a strictly awesome TD boat. But did you read the OP. I'm saying that all other Force Recons get the range bonus. So what if the Pilgrim would become like the Curse. The Curse would still have more damage capability. What you are not seeing in my argument is the fact that ALL THE OTHER RECONS ARE BONUSED LIKE THIS**. --
Storm Strike	Posted - 2008.06.09 00:24:00 - [19] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 08/06/2008 23:18:53 Originally by: Storm Strike The pilgrim is fine . I know you all want to nano it and zoom around nueting people so how about flying a curse instead. How about we remove range bonuses from ALL the other force recons? I know you all want to zoom around and web, ecm and WD people from range and nano it. How about flying a huginn, rook and lachesis instead? Anyone who thinks that pilgrim is fine compared to the other force recons like rapier and falcon need their head examined. Do you insist that everything be the same or just not realize that the pilgrim is better than the other recons in ways that make up for its flaws.
Oktavious Oblivion	Posted - 2008.06.09 00:43:00 - [20] im game with removing all range bonuses from the force recons except the Falcon... its rteally meant to sit far away and jam... The rook however needs lots of help... And for all the NOOBS wanting to whine and complain about the pilgrim and its lack of bonus, just dont fly it... I love being able to sneak up to a ship uncloak and lock him down nuet him to death and just watch my drones chew away... only thing Im in agreeable terms for is maybe giving the thing a little more CPU so I can fit my recon launcher without major pain in the A*s

Lyria Skydancer Eve Defence Force Insurgency	Posted - 2008.06.09 01:05:00 - [21] Originally by: Storm Strike Do you insist that everything be the same or just not realize that the pilgrim WAS better than the other recons in ways that make up for its flaws. Fixed. They broke pilgrim with several nerfs. Now they need to fix it. If you insist that pilgrim should do its thing (wich is basically to be a solo pvp ship to kill ratters and alike) then you need to give back some of the tools it needs for it. But dont you find it odd that this one single ship out of 8 ships doesnt fall into the pattern of how these 8 ships are designed? Combat recons get slightly more dps in trade for no cloak. This goes for all ships except pilgrim wich doesnt get the range bonus. Wouldnt you find it odd if a single interceptor was an oddball out of the 8? Like if the ares didnt get the signature bonus like all the other inties? The reason why this design was ok before for the pilgrim is because pilgrim was actually good at killing solo. Right now it isn't and because of range lacking it's worthless in gangs aswell. You sure you have flown a pilgrim lately?
Diomidis Mythos Corp RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.06.09 01:18:00 - [22] Why are so many obsessed around the NOS-Neut range? Do you believe that this alone would fix the Pilgrim's weaknesses? What difference would it make? U would neut and make some nano-ships leave the fight? A ceptor or two maybe? WOW! what an accomplishment! You have to realize that a single medium NOS/Neut worths VERY little...surely it can scare of a frig that tries to web you or something, or might break a very weak tank or supply a bit of cap to barely systain your dps and/or tank a tad longer... Heavy Neuts are scary for medium/small ships, and that's what the Pilgrim/Curse are all about: these beast pack HEAVY neuts that consume the cap meds do, yet kill a lot more. A Pilrim without the amount bonus would do jack to a BS or even a BC class ship: the opponent could easily neut you back or simply $)&!+)$ with pure DPS, as their cap would last longer than yours, their cargo would probably hold more cap boosters etc... That's why TDs are so important, and by no way useless: at least you can disrupt some damage = gaining time = tank yourself, or even your gang mates. The only bonus the pilgrim can sacrifice is Drone dmg...it would make it a very weak ship for solo, yet Neuts and TDs are it's primary role...who needs 200-250 drone DPS ffs? But 2-3x strong hitting "heavy neuts" and 2-3x bonused TDs could turn the tide...in some cases at least... Join the Biggest Greek Corp! www.Mythos-eve.com - Join Mythos Channel in game!
Lyria Skydancer Eve Defence Force Insurgency	Posted - 2008.06.09 01:26:00 - [23] Originally by: Diomidis Why are so many obsessed around the NOS-Neut range? Do you believe that this alone would fix the Pilgrim's weaknesses? What difference would it make? U would neut and make some nano-ships leave the fight? A ceptor or two maybe? WOW! what an accomplishment! You have to realize that a single medium NOS/Neut worths VERY little...surely it can scare of a frig that tries to web you or something, or might break a very weak tank or supply a bit of cap to barely systain your dps and/or tank a tad longer... Heavy Neuts are scary for medium/small ships, and that's what the Pilgrim/Curse are all about: these beast pack HEAVY neuts that consume the cap meds do, yet kill a lot more. A Pilrim without the amount bonus would do jack to a BS or even a BC class ship: the opponent could easily neut you back or simply $)&!+)$ with pure DPS, as their cap would last longer than yours, their cargo would probably hold more cap boosters etc... That's why TDs are so important, and by no way useless: at least you can disrupt some damage = gaining time = tank yourself, or even your gang mates. The only bonus the pilgrim can sacrifice is Drone dmg...it would make it a very weak ship for solo, yet Neuts and TDs are it's primary role...who needs 200-250 drone DPS ffs? But 2-3x strong hitting "heavy neuts" and 2-3x bonused TDs could turn the tide...in some cases at least... Uhm, so what's wrong with reducing the pilgrims damage so it can get the neut range bonus? It would be a cloaking gang support ship that causes alot of trouble when it decloaks, just like falcon and rapier. Not good?
Storm Strike	Posted - 2008.06.09 01:34:00 - [24] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Storm Strike Do you insist that everything be the same or just not realize that the pilgrim WAS better than the other recons in ways that make up for its flaws. Fixed. They broke pilgrim with several nerfs. Now they need to fix it. If you insist that pilgrim should do its thing (wich is basically to be a solo pvp ship to kill ratters and alike) then you need to give back some of the tools it needs for it. But dont you find it odd that this one single ship out of 8 ships doesnt fall into the pattern of how these 8 ships are designed? Combat recons get slightly more dps in trade for no cloak. This goes for all ships except pilgrim wich doesnt get the range bonus. Wouldnt you find it odd if a single interceptor was an oddball out of the 8? Like if the ares didnt get the signature bonus like all the other inties? The reason why this design was ok before for the pilgrim is because pilgrim was actually good at killing solo. Right now it isn't and because of range lacking it's worthless in gangs aswell. You sure you have flown a pilgrim lately? It is as capable as it was. Most of these nerfs also provided a boost be it the drone bay size, tds that now effect falloff or even the nuets that people now fit due to the nos nerf. Pilgrims still died in the same circumstances before any of these changes. Im not against boosting the pilgrim in ways that do not fundamentally change the ship (leave the bonus alone).
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.06.09 02:13:00 - [25] Originally by: Erotic Irony Originally by: Lord WarATron CCP have stated that they are looking into changing the bonus of the Pilgrim. The Pilgrim will no longer have a joke of a bonus as it has currently, and will insted, have a bonus to Cargo Capacity to improve its current role of cov ops hauler. The Skill requirements will also be changed from Amarr Cruiser 5 to Amarr Industral lvl5 to better match this role. Pilgrim is a excellent ship since it can go 1kms+ with a full rack of EW, NOS, Cargo Expanders and Cargo rigs and still have bonused drones. This means that you can NOS/EW/Drone anything attackign this hauler and it really is overpowered in the hauler league. I also hope CCP slightly reduce the mass of the pilgrim, to make it easier for its partner, the Jumpdrive Hauler Redeemer, to portal it easier. With that said, the Cargo Expander Redeemer has exactly enough Cargo to portal the Pilgrim and jump out. Can't be said enough. Mail me for free Redeemer BPCs :( send me the contract
Stuart Price Black Water.	Posted - 2008.06.09 03:50:00 - [26] Replace drone damage bonus with nos/neut range bonus. That will put the Pilgrim in line with the other force recons as far as the relation to combat recons is concerned. Yes, it will make it a frighteningly evil pvp ship but considering that every other ship I see flying around these days is a rapier (or don't see thanks to covops cloak as the case may be...) I'm not too bothered about that. "I got soul but I'm not a soldier"
Marcus Druallis Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.06.09 04:09:00 - [27] Originally by: Stuart Price Replace drone damage bonus with nos/neut range bonus. That will put the Pilgrim in line with the other force recons as far as the relation to combat recons is concerned. Yes, it will make it a frighteningly evil pvp ship but considering that every other ship I see flying around these days is a rapier (or don't see thanks to covops cloak as the case may be...) I'm not too bothered about that. Exactly. It is the single ship that does not fall in line with the entire recon family. Drop the stupid DPS and Drone hitpoints bonus and put a range bonus for the neuts. For all of you people that are ignorant and sit there saying "Now what would that do for Pilgrim pilots? balh blah blah." Well, if you can't see it, then stop arguing right now, because it means you've realy never flown it. In gangs the pilgrim is a ******* pita because you have to fly to anything to actually use the neuts. And in these days everything is goddamn nanoed, so you can rarely ever get to anything to be effective AT ALL in gangs. This bonus would change that fact, and make the pilgrim formidable again. For all of you that say "but we will lose our favorite solo ship that we probably haven't flown in months and thus don't even realize it's short-comings," well, I say to you the phrase you've probably uttered in this very forums countless times: Adapt. --
Ghyran	Posted - 2008.06.09 04:43:00 - [28] Take away the damage bonus and i will hunt you down, pod you and then quit eve.
The ArchWarder Warped Mining	Posted - 2008.06.09 04:49:00 - [29] There is NOTHING WRONG with the pilgrim. What is wrong about it is the MODULES it uses, Tracking disrupter's got the shaft so therefore the bonus on the pilgrim to Tracking disrupter's needs to be boosted to 7.5% per level. Nos got the shaft so now you need to fit Neuts ( Which dose NOT kill your cap if your are smart, hell i dont even fit a cap booster on mine ) The pilgrim is still a great solo ship, if you actually took the time to fit it properly and use it you would find that taking ANY of the current bonuses away from the pilgrim in exchange for a range one is total nonsenses and would make it totally useless. Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
Corduroy Rab Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2008.06.09 04:51:00 - [30] Originally by: Marcus Druallis Originally by: Atomos Darksun Originally by: Marcus Druallis What about Huggin? You know why the only reason the Curse is so common compared to the other Combat Recons? Because the other races Force Recons get the range bonus, which is so useful (obviously). But, you know, just keep saying how the pilgrim is fine, Im sure you'll eventually convince yourself. I never said the Pilgrim was fine. It's a piece of **, that's a fact. But you can't give it the same range bonus the Curse has, because then you have a Curse that can cloak. Why have a curse when you can just do it with that Pilgrim? Maybe give it half the range bonus the curse has, so it still has to operate within Point range but not in the web/death zone. Or something completely different, like make it a strictly awesome TD boat. But did you read the OP. I'm saying that all other Force Recons get the range bonus. So what if the Pilgrim would become like the Curse. The Curse would still have more damage capability. What you are not seeing in my argument is the fact that ALL THE OTHER RECONS ARE BONUSED LIKE THIS**. My guess would be that the pilgrim is different because NOS/Neut are more direct weapons than ECM/Damps and to a less extent webs. Don't get me wrong I would love for my pilgrim to have a nos/neut range bonus, but I can also see how that might make the ship a bit too good.



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