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Why the Raven? What makes it so good?

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Poreuomai Mirkur Draug'Tyr	Posted - 2008.06.09 11:42:00 - [1] Many, if not most, seem to think the Raven is the best level 4 mission ship. What makes it so good?
Steyr Daghan thx for all the fish Zenith Affinity	Posted - 2008.06.09 11:59:00 - [2] The combination of missiles, good tank and slot layout. It is capable of tanking the damage-intensive level 4s with no problem and missiles means easy semi-handsoff killing of the rats. The slot layout means you can balance tank versus damage pretty much as you like. That said, you can do just fine with other ships than raven.
Trevarre Schuldig	Posted - 2008.06.09 12:07:00 - [3] super easy to train, missile skills need for lvl 4 is a joke, missiles suffer no tracking, no missing, and have base range further then any spawns in l4 missions. can train for t1 shield fitting and still be able to tank 90% of lvl 4 missions, this is because there's oversized shield rep in game x-large boosters, armor reps only go up to large. shield tanking means more slots in low for damage mods, also capless weapons mean more cap for tanking. it's the perfect storm for mission running. 2-3mil sp is enough to run l4 missions in a raven if u avoid the harder missions <span><a href="http://hellarity.us/in-bed"><img src="http://www.hellarity.us/in-bed/quiz/gd4.php?cost=1,102" style="z-index:55;" alt="bedroom toys" border=0></a> <span style="font-size: 8px; positio
Poreuomai Mirkur Draug'Tyr	Posted - 2008.06.09 12:24:00 - [4] Edited by: Poreuomai on 09/06/2008 12:28:18 I've done a few level 4s in the Maelstrom and the tank is great. The problem is the DPS for me - unless I use dual 650mm 'scout' Repeating Artillery I, for which you have to get within 10KM. I'd prefer to avoid the (rather silly) T2 large artillery kill tree. Training caldari frig to 5, caldari cruiser to 4, and caldari BS to 4 would be quicker, especially as I have the other support skills already.
Mr Merenque	Posted - 2008.06.09 12:30:00 - [5] Originally by: Trevarre Schuldig super easy to train, missile skills need for lvl 4 is a joke, missiles suffer no tracking, no missing, and have base range further then any spawns in l4 missions. can train for t1 shield fitting and still be able to tank 90% of lvl 4 missions, this is because there's oversized shield rep in game x-large boosters, armor reps only go up to large. shield tanking means more slots in low for damage mods, also capless weapons mean more cap for tanking. it's the perfect storm for mission running. 2-3mil sp is enough to run l4 missions in a raven if u avoid the harder missions This. Anyways, a Dominix or even Megathron do work pretty well on lvl4's as well. A uber tanked domi can do lvl4s semi afk while let the drones do the work. A Mega will most probably be the fastest mission ship, if fitted for maximum damage.
cal nereus Perkone	Posted - 2008.06.09 12:49:00 - [6] Edited by: cal nereus on 09/06/2008 12:49:37 It's the lazy man's best friend. The Raven doesn't have to worry about getting into optimal range, tanks just fine, and can use all four damage types. Personally, I prefer the Dominix, which also doesn't have to worry about getting into optimal range, tanks just fine, and can use all four damage types. --- Earning Isk Basic Skills
Admiral Madbull	Posted - 2008.06.09 12:52:00 - [7] Edited by: Admiral Madbull on 09/06/2008 12:53:49 The raven is the fast but dull way to go, dull couse most fly it. weapons: - Missiles can target the npcs worse resistance, making it easy to kill them. - The range of cruisers helps you do the missions quick since you almost always have everything on range. Tank: - the number of midslots makes it easy to set a 2x2 hardners setup, getting your resistance for rat specifik damage types well above 80%, so you wont take that much damage. - Shields gives instant boost and most boost for repairs, using amplifiers also adds the amount of "free" boost you get for same cap. Drones: The raven has a big drone capacity, so you can have lots of drones that takes cares of the frigs for you wile you kill the cruisers and battleships. This speeds up missions alot. Isk: Doesnt take much isk to get a t2 fitted raven
Ulstan	Posted - 2008.06.09 19:26:00 - [8] It is not the best, simply the easiest to train and fly.
Poreuomai Mirkur Draug'Tyr	Posted - 2008.06.09 22:20:00 - [9] Thank you for your insights, much appreciated.
Dagas Hunter	Posted - 2008.06.10 21:47:00 - [10] I've got all missile skills at 5, BS at 5 all cap and shield skills at 5 and still can't tank all lvl 4 missions in a Raven. How come you guys can do it with only 2-3m SP
FT Diomedes Ductus Exemplo	Posted - 2008.06.10 22:04:00 - [11] Originally by: Dagas Hunter I've got all missile skills at 5, BS at 5 all cap and shield skills at 5 and still can't tank all lvl 4 missions in a Raven. How come you guys can do it with only 2-3m SP Maybe you are not using the right tactics?
Poreuomai Mirkur Draug'Tyr	Posted - 2008.06.10 22:08:00 - [12] Edited by: Poreuomai on 10/06/2008 22:11:42 Originally by: Dagas Hunter I've got all missile skills at 5, BS at 5 all cap and shield skills at 5 and still can't tank all lvl 4 missions in a Raven. How come you guys can do it with only 2-3m SP What is your setup? I would imagine that most people use an XL shield booster, a few mission specific shield hardners, and one or two shield boost amplifiers.
Dagas Hunter	Posted - 2008.06.10 22:47:00 - [13] Edited by: Dagas Hunter on 10/06/2008 22:47:04 Originally by: Poreuomai Edited by: Poreuomai on 10/06/2008 22:11:42 Originally by: Dagas Hunter I've got all missile skills at 5, BS at 5 all cap and shield skills at 5 and still can't tank all lvl 4 missions in a Raven. How come you guys can do it with only 2-3m SP What is your setup? I would imagine that most people use an XL shield booster, a few mission specific shield hardners, and one or two shield boost amplifiers. Have no setup now because it's gone, but it was. 6x arbalest cruise 1x named heavy nos 1x tractor beam (could not have activated at the same time as nos) 4x T2 rat-specific hardners 1x T2 XL shield booster 1x T1 shield boost amp (can use T2 now) 2x T2 BCU 1x T2 Damage control 1x T2 signal amp 1x T2 sensor boost (or what it's called) and 5x T2 Hammarheads (when the were alive)
Leeloo Jovovich Hedion University	Posted - 2008.06.10 23:14:00 - [14] If tanking the damage is your problem, I'm guessing it's your low slots that are the problem. Wouldn't at least one PDU (Power Diagnostic System) help you shield recharge rate?
Ensignman The Order of Cistral The Kano Organisation	Posted - 2008.06.10 23:15:00 - [15] In most Lvl 4s you won't really need the sig amp and sensor booster, drop them for CPR IIs, and get some rigs to increase your tank/recharge rate.
Dagas Hunter	Posted - 2008.06.11 01:39:00 - [16] Edited by: Dagas Hunter on 11/06/2008 01:41:31 yeah I guess that would be smarter. I just like the extra range to be able to target the NPC's that spawn 100km away and I also have problems with being jammed by guristas. Maybe it's better to use FoF on gurista missions? and have 2 PDU... Have been thinking of getting another ship, but maybe I'll return to flying a raven again anyway. Forgot to say that I had 3x CCC rigs to help my cap recharge.
Weakmind	Posted - 2008.06.11 02:33:00 - [17] I use: 6x t2 cruise tractor beam then this: 4 x specific hardeners t2 (3 sometimes only) 1 xl sb T2 1 x shield amp (1 x cap recharge t2, if not 4 hardeners) 3 x BCU t2 (2 sometimes if better tank needed) 2 x PDU t2 (3 - see above) 3 x CCC rigs Tanks perfectly really, as long as you dont aggro too much.
Zakgram Atomic Heroes Souls of Vengeance	Posted - 2008.06.11 06:25:00 - [18] Drop 1 hardner and fit an extra t2 shield boost amp. EFT before and after... you may be better off
Jenny Loo	Posted - 2008.06.11 08:50:00 - [19] Replace 1 hardener with a large cap booster. Use low slots 2xPDU and 3xBCS for better dps. I'm doing L4's with half-T1 raven and have no problems except for some missions when the dps is too high and I need to warp out once.
InSession Minmatar Mafia	Posted - 2008.06.11 09:44:00 - [20] Dominix is nice too, with good drone skills you can do some missions AFK (ones that have no triggers for additional spawns). Get full aggro, drones set on aggressive, and just walk away. It's possible to get a nice resistance tank + dual LAR II cap stable.
Svekke Filiolus Of Bellum	Posted - 2008.06.11 09:51:00 - [21] Drop the tractor and get 2x heavy nosses and an alt to salvage :)
Seatoo Terradyne Networks	Posted - 2008.06.11 10:54:00 - [22] Originally by: Dagas Hunter Edited by: Dagas Hunter on 10/06/2008 22:47:04 Originally by: Poreuomai Edited by: Poreuomai on 10/06/2008 22:11:42 Originally by: Dagas Hunter I've got all missile skills at 5, BS at 5 all cap and shield skills at 5 and still can't tank all lvl 4 missions in a Raven. How come you guys can do it with only 2-3m SP What is your setup? I would imagine that most people use an XL shield booster, a few mission specific shield hardners, and one or two shield boost amplifiers. Have no setup now because it's gone, but it was. 6x arbalest cruise 1x named heavy nos 1x tractor beam (could not have activated at the same time as nos) 4x T2 rat-specific hardners 1x T2 XL shield booster 1x T1 shield boost amp (can use T2 now) 2x T2 BCU 1x T2 Damage control 1x T2 signal amp 1x T2 sensor boost (or what it's called) and 5x T2 Hammarheads (when the were alive) i solo lvl 4s with only t2 hardeners (only 4.5m SP), i guess its just your play style/tactics
Scruff Mcgruff Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.06.11 12:36:00 - [23] Good skills certainly help with tanking, but using Crystal implants made a huge difference in my mission running. They are expensive but well worth the price. Using these implants allows me to permatank 95% of all level 4s with a standard large T2 Shield Booster. I only fit an XL booster on WC and Mordus Headhunters. The only drawback is that they are only +3s and you wouldnt want to PVP with these unless you are rolling in cash.
Ethaet Aliastra	Posted - 2008.06.11 12:55:00 - [24] It is the cruise missiles and shield tank allowing damage mods due to use of mids rather than lows. The actual tank on a raven is weak, due to it being insanely cap hungry, the raven mainly relies on killing things quickly and easily as a big part of its tank.
Hegotu Alecto Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.06.11 16:45:00 - [25] Edited by: Hegotu Alecto on 11/06/2008 16:46:58 i passivetank my raven and it happily tanks lvl 4's though thesedays i use a CNR passive its setup is 7x Cruise t2 or my caldari navy ones 1 tractor beam 3-4 hardeners, depends really t2 or faction 2-3 LSEt2 5x Shield power Relays t2 3x Purger Rigs 5x medium drones t2 my range on missiles is 250km lock range is just shy of 100km, and all i do is sit and get aggro from whole room, launch drones and set them on the frigs while i kill the bigger ships. dont take long, then i come back in a hauler for salvage and looting
RC Denton	Posted - 2008.06.11 21:34:00 - [26] Originally by: Dagas Hunter Edited by: Dagas Hunter on 10/06/2008 22:47:04 Originally by: Poreuomai Edited by: Poreuomai on 10/06/2008 22:11:42 Originally by: Dagas Hunter I've got all missile skills at 5, BS at 5 all cap and shield skills at 5 and still can't tank all lvl 4 missions in a Raven. How come you guys can do it with only 2-3m SP What is your setup? I would imagine that most people use an XL shield booster, a few mission specific shield hardners, and one or two shield boost amplifiers. Have no setup now because it's gone, but it was. 6x arbalest cruise 1x named heavy nos 1x tractor beam (could not have activated at the same time as nos) 4x T2 rat-specific hardners 1x T2 XL shield booster 1x T1 shield boost amp (can use T2 now) 2x T2 BCU 1x T2 Damage control 1x T2 signal amp 1x T2 sensor boost (or what it's called) and 5x T2 Hammarheads (when the were alive) Well ya there ya go if you have all missile skills to 5 go: 6x t2 cruise with faction ammo if you want to spend the isk for hte extra DPS 1 xtractor 1x salvager 1x t2 xl boost amp 2x t2 rat specific hardner for the main rat dmg type (not the secondary) 2x t2 shield boost amp 1x heavy cap booster 3x BCU 5x med drones as appropriate 5x light drones as appropriate 3x core cap sa*uard rigs As many 800 charges as you can fit in your cargo with ammo. This has let me tank all of the lvl 4s without too much trouble. Occasionally if I get full stage agro I need to warp out then back in. The problem it looks like you were having is not enough boost for too much cap and you were also probably capping out when boosting. The sa*uard rigs are really cheap and let you run the booster for a looong time without cap problems and the boost amps give you a huge amount of shield per cycle.
FT Diomedes Ductus Exemplo	Posted - 2008.06.11 22:22:00 - [27] Originally by: Scruff Mcgruff The only drawback is that they are only +3s and you wouldnt want to PVP with these unless you are rolling in cash. Isn't that the point of running missions? So that you are rolling in ISK? It's also easy to JC into a different head when you want to PvP.
Sergeant Spot Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.06.12 00:14:00 - [28] Missile ships excell at PvE Its that simple However, in PvP, they do VERY poorly against speed tanks (and speed tanks are extremely common these days)
Dagas Hunter	Posted - 2008.06.12 01:48:00 - [29] RC Denton: I think I'm going to try your fitting, but is the second boost amp worth it? They get a penalty for more than one so isn't it better to put something else there? like maybe a hardener for the second damage type or something. Also a BCU T2 only give about 10 % more damage, the third one would give what 3 %? seems quite insignificant. Maybe an extra PCU instead since they don't get a penalty?
Carniflex Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2008.06.12 08:10:00 - [30] Originally by: Dagas Hunter Edited by: Dagas Hunter on 12/06/2008 05:54:39 Edited by: Dagas Hunter on 12/06/2008 05:54:23 RC Denton: I think I'm going to try your fitting, but is the second boost amp worth it? They get a penalty for more than one so isn't it better to put something else there? like maybe a hardener for the second damage type or something. Also a BCU T2 only give about 10 % more damage, the third one would give what 3 %? seems quite insignificant. Maybe an extra PCU instead since they don't get a penalty? EDIT: Because of CPU problems I couldn't do that fitting, but I hope It's still good enough. 6x T2 cruise, 2x named heavy vamp 4x T2 hardeners, 1x T2 XL boost, 1x T2 boost amp 2x T2 BCU, 2x T2 PCU, 1x T2 Co-processor 3x the rigs you talked about As far as 3rd and 4th BCU go don't forget that BCU will give both damage and RoF bonus, so when using faction BCU's (12.5 % damage, 10% rof) even 4th of them still gives almost 5% dps increase all together. Overall 4th BCU makes sense if you are already able to do all missions without warpouts then why not use all spare slots to make them also faster. 3 rd BCU makes sense always if you can squeeze it into your setup without sacrificing your tanking ability. I'm myself using setup quite similar to Denton's, running off cap injector altho I have managed to squeeze in also afterburner. Mine is on CNR tho so fittings are somewhat tighter and as a result I do need some faction gadgets to make it fit. On regular raven it should fit with minor modifications Hi: 7x Cruise II 1x Auto Targeter I Med: CN XL booster, 3x CN hardeners (rat specific), H. cap injector II, Domination Afterburner Low: 4x CN BCU, 1x Signal Amp II Rigs/Drones: 3x missile signature ones, 5x light/medium T2 Can lock 10 targets and engage out to 112.5 km. You need to move approx 5 km in longest range missions to engage some targets and will always have next target locket to shoot at. Afterburner helps a lot with those missions with 75+ km between gates and just few lousy frigs to shoot at. Missile signature of approx 150m I get with this is adequate to do almost full damage to NPC cruisers also. If you can afford it throw in also 5% RoF and damahe hardwires, perhaps even 5% missile signature one (I dont have that, as that slot is already occupied with industrial hardwire in my case).
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2008.06.12 18:31:00 - [31] Because most people think that completing a mission with 2 or 3 warp-outs = success! I think it = failure! So a low-skilled Raven is a no-no.
Resamo	Posted - 2008.06.12 21:12:00 - [32] Originally by: Trevarre Schuldig can train for t1 shield fitting and still be able to tank 90% of lvl 4 missions, this is because there's oversized shield rep in game x-large boosters, armor reps only go up to large. People who run XL sheild boosters are totaly gimping there setups this does not even factor into the reason why ravens are good. An XL sheild booster is the same hp/cap as the Large sheild booster... and in i most good settups you are running out of cap long before you run out of sheilds so running the xl booster just gimps you on pg and cpu. Anyways the statement about the XL booster means you know nothing about fitting a raven so its best to disregard anything you say. That being said the raven is the best because you can pick your damage types and you dont have to worry about range. And ravens are not the best mission runer they are the best jack of all trades mission runner you can do any level 4 with them... but in any level 4 there is a ship out there that can do it faster then the raven can. Originally by: Trevarre Schuldig 2-3mil sp is enough to run l4 missions in a raven if u avoid the harder missions I have done level 4's in a harpy and in a cerberus just because its doable with lower sp does not make it the best ship to use what a pointless statemnt to the question why is the raven the best.
Kell Braugh	Posted - 2008.06.12 21:43:00 - [33] Edited by: Kell Braugh on 12/06/2008 21:44:26 Originally by: Resamo People who run XL sheild boosters are totaly gimping there setups this does not even factor into the reason why ravens are good. An XL sheild booster is the same hp/cap as the Large sheild booster... You forgot two things oh great oracle... With a Shield Boost Amp, which is generally a must have in any but passive tanked ravens, the bonus from the amp is (a lot) bigger than when using a large shield booster. Secondly, you must be one of those weird people that think if you can't manage to have all mods on and be cap stable its fail. Pulsing an xl boster gives you more hp/cap and also give you the ability to boost through spawns that would otherwise break your large shield booster based tank. - EFT screen shots are NOT an accurate example of a ship's abilities.
Faekurias Black Legion Command Red Dawn Alliance	Posted - 2008.06.12 22:23:00 - [34] I honestly don't like the raven since I haven't figured out a way to AFK Missions in it, I have to push buttons. So I use a nighthawk with passive-recharge tank and F.O.F missiles + drones. IF you can use it I reccommend you do, it's worth it, it can tank everything easily, and does enough damage to make it fairly quick business. Also you can watch tv/alt tab around.
Carniflex Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2008.06.13 08:53:00 - [35] Originally by: Wet Ferret Because most people think that completing a mission with 2 or 3 warp-outs = success! I think it = failure! So a low-skilled Raven is a no-no. Well, it's a lot easier to do them without warpouts at low skills than in other battleships in Raven. My missionrunning alt was able to do it at approx 3 mil SP (running injector fueled Raven). Altho he was training extra for that from day one and I was knowing all missions eyes closed so it's propably not 'avergae' performance. I imagine that most actually new players would have very tough time in lev 4 missions even with raven at 3 mil SP. It's not Raven's fault tho. Reason for that is that pilots often move into lev 3/4 missions before they are ready for that and I can't blame them for that considering the rewards on lev 2/1 missions. One does actually earn better in lev 3/4 with few warpouts than he does at lev 2 without warpouts.
Resamo	Posted - 2008.06.13 18:01:00 - [36] Edited by: Resamo on 13/06/2008 18:02:38 Originally by: Kell Braugh Edited by: Kell Braugh on 12/06/2008 21:44:26 You forgot two things oh great oracle... With a Shield Boost Amp, which is generally a must have in any but passive tanked ravens, the bonus from the amp is (a lot) bigger than when using a large shield booster. Secondly, you must be one of those weird people that think if you can't manage to have all mods on and be cap stable its fail. Pulsing an xl boster gives you more hp/cap and also give you the ability to boost through spawns that would otherwise break your large shield booster based tank. Find me a spawn that can break my large sheild booster tank and i will be very impressed... I pulse my large booster... my tank does not go for ever... Its all about the damage... tank is secondary as long as it holds long enough If i were to change my fitting out to a xl-booster i would have to drop one of my ballistic controle units to get the cpu i needed to fit it... therefore slowing my mission running ability, and how would this benifit me? it wouldnt because a Large II booster is enough for every single level 4 mission (at least with my skills). There is 0 reason to fit an XL booster unless your skills are crap thats why people who fit one dont know what htey are talking about. IF you can actaully give me a reason to fit it over a large i would be impressed but since a large tanks every level 4 without issue (again with my skills) fitting an XL is overkilling your tank and therfure reduceing your damage output and thats bad. A large gives you the same hp/cap as an XL no matter what your fitting is... do the freaking math, therefore if your setup caps out before it runs out of sheilds (not a perma tank) a large is better due to fitting requirments.
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2008.06.13 18:31:00 - [37] Originally by: Carniflex It's not Raven's fault tho. Reason for that is that pilots often move into lev 3/4 missions before they are ready for that and I can't blame them for that considering the rewards on lev 2/1 missions. One does actually earn better in lev 3/4 with few warpouts than he does at lev 2 without warpouts. This is true. Though, you could complete a mission faster in a Drake without warpouts than in a Raven with one warpout + waiting for cap to recharge. That is of course assuming average skills, as a well skilled Raven pilot could probably make up for that lost time... but then again, a well skilled Raven pilot probably wouldn't need that warpout in the first place Originally by: Resamo A large gives you the same hp/cap as an XL no matter what your fitting is... do the freaking math, therefore if your setup caps out before it runs out of sheilds (not a perma tank) a large is better due to fitting requirments. The XL gives you better hp/sec so provides more tankability. I can see the benefits to using a T2 Large, though.. as I have a lot of trouble fitting a Ravel with an XL. Mind sharing your setup? I'm kind of curious as I've been wanting to try something like that. But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.
Resamo	Posted - 2008.06.13 20:04:00 - [38] For me the hp/sec is not an issue since my cap runs dry long before my sheilds are gone so with an XL or an L it really makes no differnece since cap is where the weakness is.. if your sheild die before your cap then the XL is a better choice for you. My setup off the top of my head 3x dread guristas BCU II 2x pdu II Large booster II boost amp 4x hardeners II specific (4x invlunerabilty fields hold as well but i like to be more cautious and put in the correct hardeners better on cap and damage taken) 7x Cruies II 1x Heavy nos.. cant rmember the name... i rarely use it but if i ever do get in a jam its slightly more cap at my disposal. Changes i am contimplating.. droping the heavy noss for a drone range thingy and hopefully droping a pdu to up to 4x bcu's but i am unsure how loosing the pdu II will affect my tank and the 4th bcu does not really do that much. I do have a high grade crystal set (except for the omega thats low), but again thats more emergency boost now because my cap will probably give out long before my sheilds do even without the crystals (would have to test to be sure). Just remember when choosing between an XL and an L if you are running the L and your caping out before your sheilds are down then the XL is not going to help you will be in the same situation. For me i would have to drop the nos and a bcu to be able to fit an XL so changing to an xl would not help my tank it would however hurt my dps (thus hurting my tank... faster i kill them the less damage they do to me.). On a side note if you have a fitting where you are loosing your sheilds before your cap then an XL is actually better but i cant really see that happening with the CNR specifically as its buffer is massive (time to reduce dps) and its sheild is easily tanked.
XZypher Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.06.13 20:10:00 - [39] Im a over 3mil sp approaching 4 now pretty close and I fly a CNR and am able to handle most level 4s I avoid the EM/Therm ones. I know some modules would be better I just cant use them yet BTW it is cap stable with my skills Setup highs 7 Arby Launchers 1 Tractor Mids Eutectic I Capacitor Charge Array T2 Large Booster CN Boost Amp 3x Named Hardeners (same resist as T1 just longer Dur for little less cap use) Lows 'Pandemonium' I Ballistic Enhancement Beta Reactor Control: Diagnostic System I x4 Rigs CCCx3
Ariashley The Torchwood Institute Celestial Imperative	Posted - 2008.06.13 20:22:00 - [40] When shield tanking, you generally want to choose either active (hardeners and/or boosters - damage reduction and repair) or passive (maximal recharge through the use of extenders, shield rechargers, power diagnostic systems and shield relays). Based on my limited experience in the game so far, it seems that most people passively tank the Drake and actively tank the Rokh and the Raven. I know the best guy to tank Level 4 missions in my Corp can tank pretty much all day with all pockets of spawns from Guiristas Extravaganza or even World's Collide in any room without blinking. He uses nearly all active modules, but in his words, the key is to be cap stable while doing that. Otherwise, you will eventually have to warp out when you run out of cap - effectively having run your tank dry. The Energy System Operation skill (increases cap recharge) is very helpful in the use of active modules as is Tactical Shield Manipulation (as it enhances the effectiveness of hardeners). If you use boosters, Shield Compensation is key in lessening the capacitor usage from boosters. There are various other damage-type specific skills that enhance the effectiveness of specific hardeners. Shield Operation (recharge rate) and Shield Management (hp) are very effective in passive tanking. By the time you get to level 4 missions, you would generally want to have most of your missile skills at high levels if your aim was the Raven (and therefore you were using probably a Kestrel, Caracal and Drake in advance of it).
Resamo	Posted - 2008.06.13 20:25:00 - [41] Originally by: XZypher Im a over 3mil sp approaching 4 now pretty close and I fly a CNR and am able to handle most level 4s I avoid the EM/Therm ones. I know some modules would be better I just cant use them yet BTW it is cap stable with my skills Setup highs 7 Arby Launchers 1 Tractor Mids Eutectic I Capacitor Charge Array T2 Large Booster CN Boost Amp 3x Named Hardeners (same resist as T1 just longer Dur for little less cap use) Lows 'Pandemonium' I Ballistic Enhancement Beta Reactor Control: Diagnostic System I x4 Rigs CCCx3 As you get more SP you are going to be less worried about cap stability as you will be able to kill off the spawns quicker so having your tank last forver is not needed, i would slowly start putting in more balistic controlls as you realize your tank is not needed as much. the 3 ccc rigs will be a waste further down the road as again you wont need any cap stuff except maybe a few pdu II's Its a good fitting but my guess is you are fairly slow at actually killing stuff that will come with time.
Resamo	Posted - 2008.06.13 20:37:00 - [42] Originally by: Ariashley When shield tanking, you generally want to choose either active (hardeners and/or boosters - damage reduction and repair) or passive (maximal recharge through the use of extenders, shield rechargers, power diagnostic systems and shield relays). Based on my limited experience in the game so far, it seems that most people passively tank the Drake and actively tank the Rokh and the Raven. I know the best guy to tank Level 4 missions in my Corp can tank pretty much all day with all pockets of spawns from Guiristas Extravaganza or even World's Collide in any room without blinking. He uses nearly all active modules, but in his words, the key is to be cap stable while doing that. Otherwise, you will eventually have to warp out when you run out of cap - effectively having run your tank dry. The Energy System Operation skill (increases cap recharge) is very helpful in the use of active modules as is Tactical Shield Manipulation (as it enhances the effectiveness of hardeners). If you use boosters, Shield Compensation is key in lessening the capacitor usage from boosters. There are various other damage-type specific skills that enhance the effectiveness of specific hardeners. Shield Operation (recharge rate) and Shield Management (hp) are very effective in passive tanking. By the time you get to level 4 missions, you would generally want to have most of your missile skills at high levels if your aim was the Raven (and therefore you were using probably a Kestrel, Caracal and Drake in advance of it). I disagre that cap stability is most important, if you are there to make isk damage is most important and the more damage you do the less tank you need (stuff thats dead cant hurt you). My tanks will eventually fail if i sit there afk but i dont do that i kill and thus my tanks dont fail. If you build a setup to tank forever in a raven you are not going to be able to maximize your isk
XZypher Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.06.13 20:40:00 - [43] Originally by: Resamo Originally by: XZypher Im a over 3mil sp approaching 4 now pretty close and I fly a CNR and am able to handle most level 4s I avoid the EM/Therm ones. I know some modules would be better I just cant use them yet BTW it is cap stable with my skills Setup highs 7 Arby Launchers 1 Tractor Mids Eutectic I Capacitor Charge Array T2 Large Booster CN Boost Amp 3x Named Hardeners (same resist as T1 just longer Dur for little less cap use) Lows 'Pandemonium' I Ballistic Enhancement Beta Reactor Control: Diagnostic System I x4 Rigs CCCx3 As you get more SP you are going to be less worried about cap stability as you will be able to kill off the spawns quicker so having your tank last forver is not needed, i would slowly start putting in more balistic controlls as you realize your tank is not needed as much. the 3 ccc rigs will be a waste further down the road as again you wont need any cap stuff except maybe a few pdu II's Its a good fitting but my guess is you are fairly slow at actually killing stuff that will come with time. It goes pretty fast I tryed a level 4 when i first got in it with cruise at 1 and BS at 1 GE4 took 3hrs. Now i have cruise at 3 BS at 3 warhead upgrades at 3. and do it in less than two hours. Ill be able to drop in more dps once i have fit capacitor flux coils instead of the diag systems. The big thing i want to able to do is get the cap recharger out of the mid for a target painter.
Resamo	Posted - 2008.06.13 21:11:00 - [44] under 2h is painfully slow... you will realize that once you get faster and faster at them. Keep at it.
XZypher Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.06.13 21:49:00 - [45] yeah GE4 is my slowest mission but i kill everything and do the bonus room
Marsman37X Alder Space Pioneers	Posted - 2008.06.13 22:10:00 - [46] There are ships that do more damage, and ships that tank better. But none that can do both for so little ISK.
Ariashley The Torchwood Institute Celestial Imperative	Posted - 2008.06.13 22:26:00 - [47] Originally by: Resamo I disagre that cap stability is most important, if you are there to make isk damage is most important and the more damage you do the less tank you need (stuff thats dead cant hurt you). My tanks will eventually fail if i sit there afk but i dont do that i kill and thus my tanks dont fail. If you build a setup to tank forever in a raven you are not going to be able to maximize your isk Ya - good point. It depends how you run missions. In my corp, we bring one person with a very good tank to pull pretty much every pocket in an entire mission and then sit there and shoot at battleships while those of us in Cruisers and Battlecruisers kill everything else. With 1 cruiser, 1 BC and 1 BS, we can finish something like World's Collide or Guiristas Extravaganza in about an hour - ninety minutes. With 2 of the 3 people able to pull level 4 missions, we can do 2 missions and if one has really high bounties, we can save it for the next day and do it again before turning it in. ISK or Standing (depending on your goal) / hr is generally the goal and if you're doing the missions solo, you do want to kill things as fast as possible. That said, you need to find the balance where your tank can last long enough for your DPS to kill everything. Having to warp out of a mission is clearly not time efficient.
Sausage Mahoney	Posted - 2008.06.17 02:33:00 - [48] Despite all the DERP I'm seeing here, It IS possible to run an XL-booster permanently without gimping your setup. 2 T2 CCs and 2 DB/TS CPRs and certain XL-boosters will run, along with proper boost amps can throw out over 1k shields a pulse forever, and If I'm not mistaken, that makes one pretty much invulnerable. Then you have leftover room with Max skills for 3 BCUs, If you can get a gisti Afterburner and have maxed nav skills, you could technically even perma run with that with 3 CCCs instead of two.
Carniflex Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2008.06.17 06:24:00 - [49] Originally by: Sausage Mahoney Despite all the DERP I'm seeing here, It IS possible to run an XL-booster permanently without gimping your setup. 2 T2 CCs and 2 DB/TS CPRs and certain XL-boosters will run, along with proper boost amps can throw out over 1k shields a pulse forever, and If I'm not mistaken, that makes one pretty much invulnerable. Then you have leftover room with Max skills for 3 BCUs, If you can get a gisti Afterburner and have maxed nav skills, you could technically even perma run with that with 3 CCCs instead of two. Problem with that is that while it negates almost any NPC induced risks to your missionrunning platform player induced risks will start to rise after you pass approx 500 mil mark in fitted modules. With abovementioned XL booster alone some players will be willing to hunt extra for you instead of just waiting for juicy target at gate.
Lykah Storm Perkone	Posted - 2008.06.17 07:02:00 - [50] Originally by: Ensignman In most Lvl 4s you won't really need the sig amp and sensor booster, drop them for CPR IIs, and get some rigs to increase your tank/recharge rate. Why do you want to kill your shield boost rate?
Lykah Storm Perkone	Posted - 2008.06.17 07:04:00 - [51] Originally by: Dagas Hunter I've got all missile skills at 5, BS at 5 all cap and shield skills at 5 and still can't tank all lvl 4 missions in a Raven. How come you guys can do it with only 2-3m SP 1.) Be aligned 2.) "Drag" NPC's while doing so 3.) Pick spawns No fullstage agro with Raven. Of course if you got Basilisk helping then it doesn't matter just give em hell
Princess SinR	Posted - 2008.06.17 09:59:00 - [52] Chooseable Damage if you torp fit dps in excess of 1100 including drones (1125 for my own fit) if you cruise fit then ample dps, gets u buy and not the biggest worry for target velocity, transversal etc... Can offer excellet tank/gank combination without much sacrifce to either Though being a better option on paper doesnt make it the most fun... I am a raven/missles user... to keep fun and push the performance I always aim for high dps fits to the point I really am running miniumu tank... 1 L booster 3 racial hardeners benefit to me is more fun mission that I need to pay attention and overall faster missions as I maul the rats quick..
Jarvin Kell Kingdom of Kador	Posted - 2008.06.17 13:29:00 - [53] I'm surprised at the number of people that tend to easily discount being able to choose damage type. Say outgoing DPS from missiles alone = 538 (my current setup/skills on missioning alt). Then think about Guristas NPC on a mission like Guristas Extrav (http://eveinfo.com/missions/257/eve-online-guristas-extravaganza). NPC tend to have 10-20% between their 2nd lowest and lowest resists. In the case of Guristas BS, spproximately 40% kinetic and 50% thermal: 538 DPS * (1-0.5) = 269 DPS after resists 538 * (1-0.4) = 322.8 DPS 322.8 / 269 = 1.2 or 20% more DPS. Simply by choosing the correct missile type. Think about what happens if you're stuck using the incorrect damage type versus best damage type (EM versus KIN in this example, 70% vs. 40%): 538 * (1-0.7) = 161.4 322.8 (from above) / 161.4 = 2.0 or 200% effective damage when comparing KIN to EM There is more to the equation (how significant is the damage loss from defender missiles when compared to misses from tracking issues on turrets) but that's one big reason that missiles are more effective in missioning.
Chronicle's Legend	Posted - 2008.06.17 13:45:00 - [54] The main and most obvious advantage of a raven is the ammount of damage it can deal using no cap what so ever. on my personal set-up the only thing htat uses a major ammount of is the XL boost(exempt the harders). It even has a nice complementary drone bay that really does come in useful. Not the mention the fact that it also has two turret slots/ two empty highs for a your guns/drone links/nos's. Raven is one of the most all rounded ships in the game. The only thing that lets it down is its not symetrical
XZypher Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.06.17 14:39:00 - [55] Originally by: Ariashley Originally by: Resamo I disagre that cap stability is most important, if you are there to make isk damage is most important and the more damage you do the less tank you need (stuff thats dead cant hurt you). My tanks will eventually fail if i sit there afk but i dont do that i kill and thus my tanks dont fail. If you build a setup to tank forever in a raven you are not going to be able to maximize your isk Ya - good point. It depends how you run missions. In my corp, we bring one person with a very good tank to pull pretty much every pocket in an entire mission and then sit there and shoot at battleships while those of us in Cruisers and Battlecruisers kill everything else. With 1 cruiser, 1 BC and 1 BS, we can finish something like World's Collide or Guiristas Extravaganza in about an hour - ninety minutes. With 2 of the 3 people able to pull level 4 missions, we can do 2 missions and if one has really high bounties, we can save it for the next day and do it again before turning it in. ISK or Standing (depending on your goal) / hr is generally the goal and if you're doing the missions solo, you do want to kill things as fast as possible. That said, you need to find the balance where your tank can last long enough for your DPS to kill everything. Having to warp out of a mission is clearly not time efficient. This sounds interesting how do you do the mission again?
thisismyalt	Posted - 2008.06.17 16:54:00 - [56] Edited by: thisismyalt on 17/06/2008 16:55:29 mine goes like this Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II X-Large Shield Booster II Shield Boost Amplifier II Shield Boost Amplifier II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Arbalest Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile Arbalest Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile Arbalest Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile Arbalest Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile Arbalest Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile Arbalest Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I * of course adjust hardener for mission.
Duncan Storne	Posted - 2008.06.17 18:38:00 - [57] Originally by: Dagas Hunter Edited by: Dagas Hunter on 12/06/2008 05:54:39 Edited by: Dagas Hunter on 12/06/2008 05:54:23 RC Denton: I think I'm going to try your fitting, but is the second boost amp worth it? They get a penalty for more than one so isn't it better to put something else there? like maybe a hardener for the second damage type or something. Also a BCU T2 only give about 10 % more damage, the third one would give what 3 %? seems quite insignificant. Maybe an extra PCU instead since they don't get a penalty? EDIT: Because of CPU problems I couldn't do that fitting, but I hope It's still good enough. 6x T2 cruise, 2x named heavy vamp 4x T2 hardeners, 1x T2 XL boost, 1x T2 boost amp 2x T2 BCU, 2x T2 PCU, 1x T2 Co-processor 3x the rigs you talked about I don't think anyone really addressed your post. I suggest cutting back on the vampires to free up the slot used by the co-processor. It sounds like you fight a lot of Guristas and against them all you will ever be able to drain are frigates. You would gain more benefit from an additional PDU2. Four hardeners is not bad, but I would drop one for a cap injector. I have never had any problem with two hardeners for the primary damage type and one for the secondary. The cap injector gives you a buffer in case things go badly or you need a little extra cap during the peak damage of the mission. As for PDU vs. BCU, in your case I would favor the PDU since it sounds like your tank needs some work. You would get a little extra damage with the BCU, but whether that would make a difference is an open question. How carefully do you count the number of missiles required to kill a target? If you measure it in salvos, unless two, for example, just doesn't quite do it, you probably won't notice a difference in killing speed.
Opertone SIEGE.	Posted - 2008.06.17 22:10:00 - [58] my setup 6 arbalest siege launchers, drone control range augmenter, heavy diminishing power drain 4 CN hardeners, DG large shield booster, Afterburner tech 2 2 Ballistic control systems tech 2, 3 power diagnostic systems tech 2 hydraulic bay thrusters x 2, rocket fuel cache partition CN torpedoes (charge) SW-900 web drone, 4 TP-600 painter drones +3% missile implants, 20 mill each micromanagement, but eats through battleship's armor, very hard core, enjoyable too
Lia Darklotus Hematite Rose Bionic Dawn	Posted - 2008.06.18 06:01:00 - [59] Edited by: Lia Darklotus on 18/06/2008 06:22:06 Originally by: Dagas Hunter Edited by: Dagas Hunter on 10/06/2008 22:47:04 Originally by: Poreuomai Edited by: Poreuomai on 10/06/2008 22:11:42 Originally by: Dagas Hunter I've got all missile skills at 5, BS at 5 all cap and shield skills at 5 and still can't tank all lvl 4 missions in a Raven. How come you guys can do it with only 2-3m SP What is your setup? I would imagine that most people use an XL shield booster, a few mission specific shield hardners, and one or two shield boost amplifiers. Have no setup now because it's gone, but it was. 6x arbalest cruise 1x named heavy nos 1x tractor beam (could not have activated at the same time as nos) 4x T2 rat-specific hardners 1x T2 XL shield booster 1x T1 shield boost amp (can use T2 now) 2x T2 BCU 1x T2 Damage control 1x T2 signal amp 1x T2 sensor boost (or what it's called) and 5x T2 Hammarheads (when the were alive) I have two setups that might work wonders for if you want to try them out. First is the classic perma boosting Raven setup which can pretty much tank most LvL 4 missions without any problems. I use rat specific hardeners for missions but you can switch out to invulnerable hardeners if you like. If you notice the amp boosters are not T2 but I will be putting T2 amp boosters when I get that skill trained to level 5. Everything else is how it is intended to run. Drones of course should be T2 if you got the skills but if not at least make sure they are medium drones as they work well against frigs, cruisers and even battleships for a slight added dps boost. Don't bother with PDU's to gain extra cap recharge. First the bonuses PDU give to your shields aren't really all that great. An increase shield recharge rate is pointless for a shield boosting ship. Not to mention flux coils give you more cap recharge which is what keeps you x-large shield boosting going and going... I can maybe see using PDU's in something like a Drake but even then I would much rather use shield relays to increase my shield recharge rate over a PDU. Of course a Raven isn't the awesome passive tanker the Drake is so in the end PDU's are pointless and only should be used if you don't have the skills to use flux coils IMHO. Classic Perma Shield Booster Raven -Lows- Ballistic Control System II Capacitor Flux Coil II x4 -Mids- Cap Recharger II 'Copasetic' I Particle Field Acceleration x2 X-Large Shield Booster II Ballistic Deflection Field II Heat Dissipation Field II -Highs- 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I x6 Drone Link Augmentor I x2 - Rigs - Capacitor Control Circuit I x3 - Drones - T2 Hammerheads x5 This second setup offers more dps by including a second BCU. I haven't tried this setup out so do so at your own risk. I might think of switching out the energy vamps instead for one cap boosters to gain the cap needed to run the x-large shield booster. If I do that then the drone link units go back in place or maybe a tractor/salvager combo. This setup is more involved then the first one posted. Experimental Energy Vamp Raven - Perma Boost - Lows - Ballistic Control System II x2 Capacitor Flux Coil II x3 - Mids - Cap Recharger II 'Copasetic' I Particle Field Acceleration x2 X-Large Shield Booster II Ballistic Deflection Field II Heat Dissipation Field II - High slots - 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I x6 Heavy Diminishing Power System Drain I x2 - Rigs - 3x Capacitor Control Circuit I - Drones - T2 Hammerheads x5
Thirzarr	Posted - 2008.06.18 11:49:00 - [60] The Raven is so damn good because its rather flexible in distributing its tanking/dmg power. Some fly it grossly overtanked with a XL Booster, 3 harderner and a boost amp. Some fly it with whatever tank fits after 3 or 4 BCU's in the lows. Anything in between also works. It's an often used and mostly overtanked vessel. And 'overtanked' is quite common in empire, since Risk is a bad bad word.
Jethro Amar	Posted - 2008.06.18 16:03:00 - [61] Originally by: Wet Ferret Because most people think that completing a mission with 2 or 3 warp-outs = success! I think it = failure! So a low-skilled Raven is a no-no. Somehow ppl think that perma running XL booster = win. Just think: how often do you really need it? With my low cap/shield skills i can do 90% missions without warpouts, 5% with 1 warpout. The rest I just can't :) It's true I sometimes waste time for a single warpout (but not that much. If you dock into any station your cap and shield replenishes instantly), but my 3xBCU make me much much faster than any perma-booster. So: do you really think, that avoiding occasional warpout makes up for the 90% missions where I'm much much faster? low-skilled Raven is still better than low-skilled anything else.
Boz Well	Posted - 2008.06.18 16:25:00 - [62] Originally by: "Noob" Because most people think that completing a mission with 2 or 3 warp-outs = success! I think it = failure! So a low-skilled Raven is a no-no. You don't need to warp out in a Raven, even with low skills. Just learn wtf you're doing, heh. Raven is a very forgiving ship, just like the Dominix. Once you know the missions and fit it properly, you will be fine. Player competence makes up for lack of skills on most, if not all missions, but I guess if you are lacking in that department, you can stick with level 2-3 missions until you have an excessive amount of skills for level 4.
Death4free Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2008.06.18 19:14:00 - [63] Originally by: Jethro Amar Originally by: Wet Ferret Because most people think that completing a mission with 2 or 3 warp-outs = success! I think it = failure! So a low-skilled Raven is a no-no. Somehow ppl think that perma running XL booster = win. Just think: how often do you really need it? With my low cap/shield skills i can do 90% missions without warpouts, 5% with 1 warpout. The rest I just can't :) It's true I sometimes waste time for a single warpout (but not that much. If you dock into any station your cap and shield replenishes instantly), but my 3xBCU make me much much faster than any perma-booster. So: do you really think, that avoiding occasional warpout makes up for the 90% missions where I'm much much faster? low-skilled Raven is still better than low-skilled anything else. i run a perma xl setup with 2 bcus so i miss out on maybe 10% dps so its not a biggie since i can practicly afk the mission Eve information kiosk
Zaran Darkstar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2008.06.18 19:20:00 - [64] Originally by: Poreuomai Many, if not most, seem to think the Raven is the best level 4 mission ship. What makes it so good? Nothing. As many things in life it's overated an unfun to do lvl4s in it. Well it may be good for lazy players that hate the tracking issues. Also it is ideal for Bots.
Veryez	Posted - 2008.06.18 19:43:00 - [65] Originally by: Resamo Edited by: Resamo on 13/06/2008 20:21:24 For me the hp/sec is not an issue since my cap runs dry long before my sheilds are gone so with an XL or an L it really makes no differnece since cap is where the weakness is.. if your sheild die before your cap then the XL is a better choice for you. My setup off the top of my head 3x dread guristas BCU II 2x pdu II Large booster II boost amp 4x hardeners II specific (4x invlunerabilty fields hold as well but i like to be more cautious and put in the correct hardeners better on cap and damage taken) 7x Cruies II 1x Heavy nos.. cant rmember the name... i rarely use it but if i ever do get in a jam its slightly more cap at my disposal. 3x rigs... i think em hardner, missile one of some kind, and sheild booster 1 i think lol cant remember Changes i am contimplating.. droping the heavy noss for a drone range thingy and hopefully droping a pdu to up to 4x bcu's but i am unsure how loosing the pdu II will affect my tank and the 4th bcu does not really do that much. I do have a high grade crystal set (except for the omega thats low), but again thats more emergency boost now because my cap will probably give out long before my sheilds do even without the crystals (would have to test to be sure). Just remember when choosing between an XL and an L if you are running the L and your caping out before your sheilds are down then the XL is not going to help you will be in the same situation. For me i would have to drop the nos and a bcu to be able to fit an XL so changing to an xl would not help my tank it would however hurt my dps (thus hurting my tank... faster i kill them the less damage they do to me.). On a side note if you have a fitting where you are loosing your sheilds before your cap then an XL is actually better but i cant really see that happening with the CNR specifically as its buffer is massive (time to reduce dps) and its sheild is easily tanked. First off that's a CNR setup not a raven setup. Second, comparing a large Shield Booster to an XL booster while wearing a crystal set isn't quite fair. But you have valid points in that as your skills get better your tank becomes less important and DPS takes priority. Also I'm not sure if you realize but for tanking 2xInvul Fields II + SBA II > 3xInvul Fields II, due to stacking. For the OP, look one ship has to be best and it's the raven, period. There is no debate, and for those who think there is, grow up. Is it the best at every mission - no, not even close. But overall it is the best. You need never turn down a mission in this ship - ever. Good range, good targeting range, good tank, consistent damage, ability to chose damage types, with good skills everything cruiser and above takes full damage - the list goes on. I have max skills - absolute maximum. My setup is: 4xBCU 1xPDU II SBA II XL Shield Booster II 1xInvul Field II 2xHardners - mission specific Med Cap Booster II - with 800's 6xCruise Missile Launchers II 1xHeavy Named Nos 1xAuto Targeter I - (don't turn on, but I like the ability to target 9 NPC's) CCC's for rigs I use some faction hardners and BCU's to fit it (cheap ones since the goal is to make money for other stuff). For those having problems with this fitting, drop one BCU and add a copro and it all fits easily. The booster is for those 'oh damn' moments when aggro goes wrong but is rarely used. Normally I pulse the XL booster between 30 and 60% shields and fly from gate to gate, only for a few missions do I still 'align and kite them' even on those I normally turn at some point and head to the next gate.
Srioghal moDhream	Posted - 2008.06.18 21:22:00 - [66] Lia Darklotus - finally someone mentioned cfc's the t2 versions outperform t2 cpr's and t2 pds's by far. This is my setup and I coast through all missions including EA 5/5 (I have not done AE bonus room in a long time since I mission for angels now and again so not sure about that spawn) CNR Rigs CCCx3 Lows CFC II DCU II BCS II x3 Mids Cap recharger x2 Invuln II x2 SBA II Pith A Large SB Highs Cruise II x7 Drone link Augmentor Drones Ogre II x2 Hammerhead II x2 Hobgoblin II x2 Like I said never have any problems. and only one expensive item that could be switched out for a slight loss with the tech II version.
Cheyenne Shadowborn Capital Produce Free Trade Zone.	Posted - 2008.06.19 11:39:00 - [67] Originally by: Poreuomai What makes it so good? A healthy dose of self delusion, coupled with ignorance and a decent amount of suspension of disbelief thrown in. I use the Raven for one thing: Speed-Ratting Angels with torps, but only once my alt scouts them out. If I had no second account, I'd be flying a Domi for this. As for missions, Nightmare > (CN)Raven. The one thing about the Raven though is that its easy to get into. --
Jethro Amar	Posted - 2008.06.19 16:23:00 - [68] Originally by: Death4free i run a perma xl setup with 2 bcus so i miss out on maybe 10% dps so its not a biggie since i can practicly afk the mission If you can permatank with 2bcus you must have far better SPs than mine. Thus i assume your ship is grossly overtanked. Btw: when i did missions i couldn't even use t2 hardeners and i was still fine. 10% could be huge difference when shooting BSes. If your target can tank 80% of your damage then your effective dps is the remaining 20%. In my case it's the remaining 30%. 20:30 = 50% difference. Usually it's not that much, but always more than 10%. You can't afk with raven - targets won't change themselves :)
Lowbridge Empirius Enigmus Navy Logistics	Posted - 2008.06.19 18:35:00 - [69] Edited by: Lowbridge on 19/06/2008 18:37:22 Originally by: Dagas Hunter I've got all missile skills at 5, BS at 5 all cap and shield skills at 5 and still can't tank all lvl 4 missions in a Raven. How come you guys can do it with only 2-3m SP Use this setup for your Raven: Highs: 6 Cruise (you pick which ones) Tractor Beam Salvage Mids: X-Large T2 shield booster 2 T2 Invuls 3 T2 Hardners (for what ever damage you are tanking for) Lows: 2 T2 BCU's 1 T2 DCU 2 T2 PDU's Rigs: 3 CCC's Drones(what ever damage you need): 5 lighs 5 Mediums With this setup you can run any level 4 mission without any real issues, just remember to kill the warp scam frigs frist so if you do have issues you can get out
Boz Well	Posted - 2008.06.19 19:09:00 - [70] Originally by: Cheyenne Shadowborn Originally by: Poreuomai What makes it so good? A healthy dose of self delusion, coupled with ignorance and a decent amount of suspension of disbelief thrown in. I use the Raven for one thing: Speed-Ratting Angels with torps, but only once my alt scouts them out. If I had no second account, I'd be flying a Domi for this. As for missions, Nightmare > (CN)Raven. The one thing about the Raven though is that its easy to get into. Comparing a nightmare to a Raven? Lol. That's stacking the deck a bit, don't you think? And still I think it depends on the mission. CNR vs Nightmare against Angels is a different comparison than CNR vs Nightmare on Sansha's. The Raven isn't good because of delusion. It's good because it can easily change damage types, has long range, and is easy to train for. It's not the best ship for every single mission, but it's a good ship for every single mission, and that's why it's so popular.

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