EVE Search - CSM Formal Meeting 5. Sunday 15th June. 18:00 hours Eve Time

Check My IP Information

All Channels

Jita Park Speakers Corner

CSM Formal Meeting 5. Sunday 15th June. 18:00 hours Eve Time

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 7 :: one page

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Jane Spondogolo NoobWaffe	Posted - 2008.06.13 09:27:00 - [61] Originally by: JafoPBCFR All email unless deemed Security sensative are public. in the US Govt. I know this as I have had a few of my Emails made Public due to the Freedom Of information act. Now In Jades Char View over her Subjects. the Commitee Shouldnt allow anything Public. Perhaps the Chair should have CCP fund a KGB style unit. Darius will be taken in the middle of the nite and shot his acct canceld and A fake Post made in his name stating that he was reallyy a WOW player all along and wanted to make Elfs in EVE the whole time. Thus a Trator to EVE! All Crap aside. It seems the EVIL darius of Goons wants to make sure theres no question of His dedication to the players. And Not his Corp/Aliences. And This I applaud him for. as for Jane. Step Down your not winning support your just makeing things worse with every word you type. Do you mean jade?
JafoPBCFR	Posted - 2008.06.13 19:49:00 - [62] Originally by: Jane Spondogolo Originally by: JafoPBCFR All email unless deemed Security sensative are public. in the US Govt. I know this as I have had a few of my Emails made Public due to the Freedom Of information act. Now In Jades Char View over her Subjects. the Commitee Shouldnt allow anything Public. Perhaps the Chair should have CCP fund a KGB style unit. Darius will be taken in the middle of the nite and shot his acct canceld and A fake Post made in his name stating that he was reallyy a WOW player all along and wanted to make Elfs in EVE the whole time. Thus a Trator to EVE! All Crap aside. It seems the EVIL darius of Goons wants to make sure theres no question of His dedication to the players. And Not his Corp/Aliences. And This I applaud him for. as for Jane. Step Down your not winning support your just makeing things worse with every word you type. Do you mean jade? Yes I did my appologies
Serenity Steele	Posted - 2008.06.13 20:05:00 - [63] Edited by: Serenity Steele on 13/06/2008 20:09:14 On the issue of whether or not email conversations should be private or public, it is understandable that people draw real-world parallels, as this is an obvious connection to make. However, as several players and fellow council members like to remind everyone, this is an internet space game and as such, lacks the equivalent communication channels that RL provides for a group of people physically located in one place. It strikes me as a little poorly thought out to assume that all communication should therefor be made public, when there is no online equivalent of meeting in the halls of government, untapped phone conversations and a walk in the park or golf. For such an equivalent online, we could arguably use voice communications instead, however there is a matter of simply being able to respect the need for other non-recorded forms of communication (via email or private forum) and with that respect not require twisting and bending to find alternative channels. Last I looked, every council member agreed unanimously for a closed private forum. While it may be scatelogically amusing to read every time FARTs into a chat log, it is not productive to providing community focus on dealing the with real issues the CSM is meant to deal with. I would far rather have 200 people posting up in arms about a suggested nerf than 2000 people posting about a petty argument over the colour CSM should have when they type in local. Not in the least part because it would not reward CSM members with fame and forum scoring points for wasting everyones time with relatively unimportant matters, but only for dealing with the key issues players face.
Darius JOHNSON	Posted - 2008.06.13 20:44:00 - [64] Originally by: Serenity Steele Edited by: Serenity Steele on 13/06/2008 20:09:14 On the issue of whether or not email conversations should be private or public, it is understandable that people draw real-world parallels, as this is an obvious connection to make. However, as several players and fellow council members like to remind everyone, this is an internet space game and as such, lacks the equivalent communication channels that RL provides for a group of people physically located in one place. It strikes me as a little poorly thought out to assume that all communication should therefor be made public, when there is no online equivalent of meeting in the halls of government, untapped phone conversations and a walk in the park or golf. For such an equivalent online, we could arguably use voice communications instead, however there is a matter of simply being able to respect the need for other non-recorded forms of communication (via email or private forum) and with that respect not require twisting and bending to find alternative channels. Last I looked, every council member agreed unanimously for a closed private forum. While it may be scatelogically amusing to read every time FARTs into a chat log, it is not productive to providing community focus on dealing the with real issues the CSM is meant to deal with. I would far rather have 200 people posting up in arms about a suggested nerf than 2000 people posting about a petty argument over the colour CSM should have when they type in local. Not in the least part because it would not reward CSM members with fame and forum scoring points for wasting everyones time with relatively unimportant matters, but only for dealing with the key issues players face. I guess I'll have to agree to disagree. I learned a long time ago to never say anything on the internet that I wouldn't want everyone in the world to read. It's a valuable lesson. There are two schools of thought to this obviously... The first is that the council for some reason needs a line of private communications beyond their own personal mailboxes. Why would this private line of communication need to exist? So people could say things they didn't want the voters to see? For what cause? Because they're embarassed by their actions or don't want to be held accountable for them? That is an idea I simply find abhorrent. Publishing your communications isn't a means for anyone to "score political points" if you haven't said anything you wouldn't want anyone to see. I take the perspective that we are public figures and should act as such. If you can't keep from acting like a jerk in your communications with the other representatives why should the players not be able to see that? If good and hard work is going on outside of the meetings and a good dialogue is being had why should the players not be able to see that? If you have a reason for supporting or not supporting an issue and state it why should the players not be able to see that? Really the only reason I can conceive for not wanting council discussions conducted via email (The ONLY other medium used right now aside from the meetings) to be public is that you feel you have something to hide. All of the reasons I've seen to support this have involved the need for people to "be able to save face". Save face from whom? I'm sorry but this is a public council having public discussions about issues that are the public's concern. They have every right to know what is being said about issues. They have every right to know what edicts are being given. They have every right to know if the person they voted for is really supporting their issues and living up to the standards the voters applied to them when they were elected. I posit that anyone who feels they can not handle that scrutiny has something to hide. I don't think it's the business of the council to hide. We're not a shadow government.
Darius JOHNSON	Posted - 2008.06.13 20:48:00 - [65] Originally by: Serenity Steele Edited by: Serenity Steele on 13/06/2008 20:09:14 On the issue of whether or not email conversations should be private or public, it is understandable that people draw real-world parallels, as this is an obvious connection to make. However, as several players and fellow council members like to remind everyone, this is an internet space game and as such, lacks the equivalent communication channels that RL provides for a group of people physically located in one place. It strikes me as a little poorly thought out to assume that all communication should therefor be made public, when there is no online equivalent of meeting in the halls of government, untapped phone conversations and a walk in the park or golf. For such an equivalent online, we could arguably use voice communications instead, however there is a matter of simply being able to respect the need for other non-recorded forms of communication (via email or private forum) and with that respect not require twisting and bending to find alternative channels. Last I looked, every council member agreed unanimously for a closed private forum. While it may be scatelogically amusing to read every time FARTs into a chat log, it is not productive to providing community focus on dealing the with real issues the CSM is meant to deal with. I would far rather have 200 people posting up in arms about a suggested nerf than 2000 people posting about a petty argument over the colour CSM should have when they type in local. Not in the least part because it would not reward CSM members with fame and forum scoring points for wasting everyones time with relatively unimportant matters, but only for dealing with the key issues players face. To address the last paragraph... I'm sure you would rather people are concerned with the issues. Who are we to force that on the population? Do you honestly think that by operating behind a curtain we're going to control behavior? That's not our job. I think it bears repeating that if you don't want people posting about a petty argument don't have one. I don't think it's a viable alternative to self control to have said petty argument in private and put on another face in public. You are correct that this IS NOT real world politics. By that same token this shouldn't be treated with the same broken and falsely insulating shells of secrecy.
Kelsin Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.06.13 21:04:00 - [66] I can see both sides of it, and at the base level I agree with Darius about the "don't say anything you wouldn't want made public". But at the same time I think there's a danger to every conversation and exchange being more performance than substance, something that I think has been far too much a part of some of the earlier meetings. There are many situations in life where a dispute can be resolved by a private conversation between two people - but when that conversation is public record it presents an obstacle to compromise between strong personalities "on stage" as it were.
Darius JOHNSON	Posted - 2008.06.13 21:14:00 - [67] Originally by: Kelsin I can see both sides of it, and at the base level I agree with Darius about the "don't say anything you wouldn't want made public". But at the same time I think there's a danger to every conversation and exchange being more performance than substance, something that I think has been far too much a part of some of the earlier meetings. There are many situations in life where a dispute can be resolved by a private conversation between two people - but when that conversation is public record it presents an obstacle to compromise between strong personalities "on stage" as it were. In no way am I suggesting that two people cannot have a private conversation and IN NO WAY, as I've said repeatedly but has been repeatedly misconstrued and twisted, does my motion prevent that. My aim is for ALL group communications of the council, all debates, all edicts, all suggestions and thoughts that are sent to all to be made public. If it's good enough to be communicated to the ENTIRE COUNCIL then it's good enough to be shared with the subscribers. Part of the problem here is that we're using an email list for what a forum should be used for. I'd be just as happy to have a forum which is read only to the public whereby all council communications can occur. At the end of the day I'm not hung up on "scoring political points" as some detractors are trying to suggest. I have my votes. I don't need to score points. If we hold another election tomorrow I'd be elected in a heartbeat. That entire argument is silly on its face. I believe that by keeping GROUP communications, edicts, debates and any other GROUP communications veiled in shadow we're merely perpetuating the problem the council was created to address by creating the perception of a separate elite class. This will only create the same distrust with the public that was the cause of the problem in the first place. Originally by: Jade Constantine You might be a big man on the internets Darius but prepare to be laughed at quite a lot in Europe.
Kelsin Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.06.13 21:55:00 - [68] Originally by: Darius JOHNSON If it's good enough to be communicated to the ENTIRE COUNCIL then it's good enough to be shared with the subscribers. I'm with you on that, I meant to go on to say it just depends where you draw the line with what's public and what's private. That's a good rule of thumb.
KeratinBoy GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.06.13 22:20:00 - [69] Originally by: Darius JOHNSON I fail to see what creating a separate hidden caste does to address Mr. Petursson's concerns, or the Eve-o community's. Damn you and your sensible ways, God damn you all to hell!
Serenity Steele	Posted - 2008.06.13 22:54:00 - [70] Edited by: Serenity Steele on 13/06/2008 22:57:26 Deleted. Darius, Let's just agree to disagree, as I don't think that this debate will ever come to an end, and submission to CCP of issues is more important to focus on right now.

Kai Wooglin GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.06.15 04:52:00 - [71] Well, the debate will come to an end with the vote. That is what will decide if the council is for transparency or not.
Qaedienne	Posted - 2008.06.15 07:03:00 - [72] Darius, CSM emails should be kept confidential unless specified otherwise. If you need a reason outside of respecting your fellow CSM's wishes, let me spell it out for you: your alliance trolls every CSM issue and communication, from major to minor to minute. Get it?
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2008.06.15 08:47:00 - [73] Edited by: MotherMoon on 15/06/2008 08:49:56 Originally by: Jade Constantine Originally by: Darius JOHNSON Let me fill you in there cream puff... We're a public council. Our official communications are public record. Again... How does that help me politically? You think up your own silly schemes. I could ask you how having the sole channel of private communication we still have, opened to public comment and politicized debate and trolling, might help the process of the CSM function. But then maybe you don't want us to be able to talk without putting on the boxing gloves and adopting the combative stances of the factions we've devolved into? Who knows. Any which way I think its a bad issue and will be voting against. We'll see what happens. sorry jade I support you but what nonsense are you going on about? what does this have to do with powerplay? or votes? yes it might not be a good idea maybe even a bad idea in some people opinions. However it has nothing to do with powertrips. sorry you lose my support on this issue Jade, I don't understand how you can reply to something daris posted with was clear and to the point with flamebait. Stay to the facts don't start trying to make people hate someone or love you. also as for my stance on the subject. Quote: council discussions conducted via email If it's a CSM discussion it should be public, if it's an information chat or e-mail like meeting at 5, sure whatever. but if it's a meeting it should be public, and if not public, it should be public to the CSM memebers at least.
LaVista Vista	Posted - 2008.06.15 09:04:00 - [74] Originally by: MotherMoon If it's a CSM discussion it should be public, if it's an information chat or e-mail like meeting at 5, sure whatever. but if it's a meeting it should be public, and if not public, it should be public to the CSM memebers at least. No, it's hardly discussions. So far the list has been used for publishing agenda items, submission templates, updates on agenda items like our internal calendar and things like that. Oh, and mud throwing(Hence why Darius probably wants everything to be public, so it can cause more drama). I have nothing to hide on that mailing list. But I do want people to respect my privacy. I want to be able to communicate with my fellow council members without having goons running around twisting my emails and putting words in my mouth, which will happen. It's obvious why people want the mailing list public. But I will vote against this. If the community wants CSM to run, we NEED communcation paths that can reach all council members, without threadnaughts spawning from every single email. If we don't have this ability, we will be unable to work effeciently. Thus, I'm stronly against it.
Goumindong Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.06.15 10:46:00 - [75] Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: MotherMoon If it's a CSM discussion it should be public, if it's an information chat or e-mail like meeting at 5, sure whatever. but if it's a meeting it should be public, and if not public, it should be public to the CSM memebers at least. No, it's hardly discussions. So far the list has been used for publishing agenda items, submission templates, updates on agenda items like our internal calendar and things like that. Oh, and mud throwing(Hence why Darius probably wants everything to be public, so it can cause more drama). I have nothing to hide on that mailing list. But I do want people to respect my privacy. I want to be able to communicate with my fellow council members without having goons running around twisting my emails and putting words in my mouth, which will happen. It's obvious why people want the mailing list public. But I will vote against this. If the community wants CSM to run, we NEED communcation paths that can reach all council members, without threadnaughts spawning from every single email. If we don't have this ability, we will be unable to work effeciently. Thus, I'm stronly against it. So the public doesn't get to see these agenda items and submission templates? Why? What is wrong with them? You are fundamentally wrong in your characterization of goonswarm. We will put no words into your mouth. On the contrary we will quote you directly. Had jade not been saying things like "The only mistake i've made is allowing a little too much democracy" then we wouldn't have had to keep quoting it. Did Goons threadnaught the second meeting? No, we did not? Why did we not? Because people behaved themselves and didn't run ridiculous power plays. Just go look at the thread if you want proof. The only people posting in the thread is me, who has been disappointed in the lack of discussion that issues are getting due to inaction of the council and has been disappointed the entire time since the first agenda was laid out. And Athiron who has taken issue with roughly the same thing except with the specific instance of the council allowing multiple issues be lumped into the same votes.
LaVista Vista	Posted - 2008.06.15 11:00:00 - [76] Originally by: Goumindong So the public doesn't get to see these agenda items and submission templates? Why? What is wrong with them? The agenda items are here to see right on the forum. As for the submission templates, I see no reason why the public shouldn't see them.
Goumindong Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.06.15 11:37:00 - [77] Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Goumindong So the public doesn't get to see these agenda items and submission templates? Why? What is wrong with them? The agenda items are here to see right on the forum. As for the submission templates, I see no reason why the public shouldn't see them. So then what is the problem with making the communication public? If you don't talk about things that shouldn't be public anyway then why not just make it public? Its seems the only reason would be to allow yourself the opportunity to be petty and to enact power plays without the public being able to see just who is being dishonest with their vote and who is trying to screw all the others out of the votes that they cast.
LaVista Vista	Posted - 2008.06.15 12:08:00 - [78] Originally by: Goumindong So then what is the problem with making the communication public? If you don't talk about things that shouldn't be public anyway then why not just make it public? No votes are casted via email. All votes are done during meetings, which are public. So your assumptions, which are extremely wrong, are just plain wrong. The reason why I don't want them public? Because I think it wont make a difference other than causing more drama. I do see why some wants that high degree of transperancy. But I think it's too easily abused as well. As I said, I have nothing to hide. I just think we should have at least some privacy. We could have to discuss things which are subject to NDA. Again, I wouldn't change my way nor usage of the mailing list, should it be public. It's that simple.
Goumindong Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.06.15 12:27:00 - [79] Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Goumindong So then what is the problem with making the communication public? If you don't talk about things that shouldn't be public anyway then why not just make it public? No votes are casted via email. All votes are done during meetings, which are public. So your assumptions, which are extremely wrong, are just plain wrong. The reason why I don't want them public? Because I think it wont make a difference other than causing more drama. I do see why some wants that high degree of transperancy. But I think it's too easily abused as well. As I said, I have nothing to hide. I just think we should have at least some privacy. We could have to discuss things which are subject to NDA. Again, I wouldn't change my way nor usage of the mailing list, should it be public. It's that simple. I am sorry, i thought you said Quote: The agenda items are here to see right on the forum. As for the submission templates, I see no reason why the public shouldn't see them. It doesn't matter if we can see votes. I am not talking about votes(to get past your ridiculous strawman). The process is important and we have a right to view it. I want CSM reps to be voting based on what they think and not power plays. When a rep goes on a power trip I want to know about. There is no reason for reps to be insulated the voting public. So lets go over what we would see if it was made public Agenda items: Template Documents: Both of these are the public interest. Anything else there that should not be cannot be construed as have a public interest to be private unless its specifically discussing items covered by the NDA. The only reason to keep them secret is to allow people to exert influence over other reps for the purpose subverting the game towards a partisan agenda. So we have ample reason to make the records public because as you say, they ought to be. And we have ample reason to make them public to prevent any representative from any alliance from attempting to subvert the will of the people who rightly voted for their representatives.
LaVista Vista	Posted - 2008.06.15 12:41:00 - [80] Originally by: Goumindong Agenda items: Template Documents: The first is already public. Please check the VERY first post in this thread. The template documents I see ABSOLUTELY no reason not to release. Again, I see a lot of good reasons why it should be public. But I also think that there is reasons why it shouldn't. I thus go with that it shouldn't, because there needs to be some kind of privacy so that the CSM can work without drama at every damn step we take. There was a reason the mailing list was created. What do you think will happen if the mailing list does go public? Those who have things to hide use other means of communication. It's like disallowing drugs in real life. If things are disallowed they will be less obvious, more violent and much harder to investigate. I think the only thing that would make me accept a public mailing list, would be if it was delayed 1-2 weeks so that nothing can be taken out of context because things are work in progress, just like certain people tend to do

Goumindong Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.06.15 13:07:00 - [81] Originally by: LaVista Vista There was a reason the mailing list was created. No the mailing list was created because there was no read only forum that the CSM could post in but not anyone else. Quote: What do you think will happen if the mailing list does go public? Those who have things to hide use other means of communication. It's like disallowing drugs in real life. If things are disallowed they will be less obvious, more violent and much harder to investigate. This is nothing like drugs. There is no trade going on. There are no fiscal interests. Yea, people will communicate in other means. It happens. But that doesn't mean we cannot make all the communication we can as transparent as possible. Public institutions rely on transparency to keep undue influences from corrupting the process. Corruption of the process produces results that are not inline with the right and proper will that grants their authority. I.E. it makes it so the council will do less good for the game or more bad. How can that be a positive and why would anyone want to push for a situation that would increase the likelihood of that outcome. Quote: I think the only thing that would make me accept a public mailing list, would be if it was delayed 1-2 weeks so that nothing can be taken out of context because things are work in progress, just like certain people tend to do I am sorry, who is taking what out of context? Are we taking Jade barring a representative from a meeting out of context? Are we taking Jade editorializing a decision of the council out of context?
LaVista Vista	Posted - 2008.06.15 13:11:00 - [82] Originally by: Goumindong I am sorry, who is taking what out of context? Are we taking Jade barring a representative from a meeting out of context? Are we taking Jade editorializing a decision of the council out of context? Why are you saying "we"? Do you feel aimed at? This has nothing to do with Jade either. Lets face it. The forum is filled with trolls and people who take things out of context for lulz and drama.
Goumindong Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.06.15 13:47:00 - [83] Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Goumindong I am sorry, who is taking what out of context? Are we taking Jade barring a representative from a meeting out of context? Are we taking Jade editorializing a decision of the council out of context? Why are you saying "we"? Do you feel aimed at? This has nothing to do with Jade either. Lets face it. The forum is filled with trolls and people who take things out of context for lulz and drama. We being the general forum population. There was no drama over the 2nd meeting when there was no clear problem. Why do you think that people are going to make problems when they have demonstrated both that if there is is nothing to be alarmed about they will not make it an issue?
Darius JOHNSON	Posted - 2008.06.15 16:29:00 - [84] Originally by: LaVista Vista Why are you saying "we"? Do you feel aimed at? This has nothing to do with Jade either. Lets face it. The forum is filled with trolls and people who take things out of context for lulz and drama. Those "people who take things out of context" are the ones voting for the CSM. They're voters and you're no better than them. They have a right to see what's going on even should it be misinterpreted. Also, the mailing list has been used numerous times for official communications. You need only look at the emails to see that. You state that the council has some need for privacy in its communications and I will ask once again, to what end? What purpose does creating us as some separate class from the playerbase achieve? How does that fit in with what the CSM is supposed to be? I don't see any responses to that. I see blind opposition and mischaracterization. I want drama? What the hell are you on about? If you conduct yourselves like reasonable human beings what drama is there to be had? I find it hilarious that I'm blamed for people's responses to the actions of others. I'm guilty for mentioning the crime as opposed to the person who committed it and now seeks to cover it up. Puhleeze. Originally by: Jade Constantine You might be a big man on the internets Darius but prepare to be laughed at quite a lot in Europe.
Qaedienne	Posted - 2008.06.15 17:42:00 - [85] Quote: Those "people who take things out of context" are the ones voting for the CSM. So? They are still taking things out of context. Quote: They're voters and you're no better than them. Did he claim he was better than them? Is not having your email read by the entire game some sign that you think you are better than everyone else? If so, we're all guilty of it as I'm not aware of any email that is open to the public. Quote: They have a right to see what's going on even should it be misinterpreted. They already see what's going on in both the meetings and here on the boards. And of course, they have CSM's like yourself to warn them if some plot to take over EvE is secretly being hatched in the CSM email... Quote: Also, the mailing list has been used numerous times for official communications. You need only look at the emails to see that. Good. If it were used more often for official business, maybe these boards would be more about player issues and less about Goonswarm throwing a hissy fit. Quote: You state that the council has some need for privacy in its communications and I will ask once again, to what end? So that they can communicate with other CSM's without having Goons troll each and every communication, wasting council members time defending themselves against accusations that they are trying to unfairly influence council affairs by, for example, scheduling a vote on a Thursday. Quote: What purpose does creating us as some separate class from the playerbase achieve? You should tell us that. As far as I know, you're the only CSM member to claim their constituency is not the playerbase as a whole (just Goonswarm). What purpose does that achieve, Darius? Quote: How does that fit in with what the CSM is supposed to be? All the CSM members were elected. It's not unreasonable for them to ask that they be able to carry out their work unmolested. Players can still see what their council is doing, and ask direct questions to their council members. Quote: I don't see any responses to that. Why would there be? You're the only person who believes that an internal email is going to subvert the whole process. Quote: I see blind opposition and mischaracterization. I want drama? What the hell are you on about? You just accused the council of blind opposition and mischaracterization because they want an internal email system. That's being dramatic, dude. Quote: If you conduct yourselves like reasonable human beings what drama is there to be had? Plenty. Look anywhere on the EvE boards. Quote: I find it hilarious that I'm blamed for people's responses to the actions of others. I'm guilty for mentioning the crime as opposed to the person who committed it and now seeks to cover it up. Puhleeze. No one's blamed you for anything in this thread, and no one has called you guilty of anything. Stop being a drama queen.
Darius JOHNSON	Posted - 2008.06.15 19:03:00 - [86] Originally by: Qaedienne Horribly formatted :words: Why am I somehow not surprised an alt has again taken up the torch here? I apologize but there's no way I'm going to play the quote game here as I don't have 7 hours to respond to every sentence in your post. I'll respond overall though if it doesn't involve me repeating myself. You have a flair for the dramatic. Quote me the part where I suggest people should have their email read by everyone? You're making it seem as if what I'm suggesting will force people to divulge their personal emails. That is not the case as I've said repeatedly. I am only concerned with the SEMI-OFFICIAL CSM mailing list. Private conversations are just that. Why should I be responsible for raising issues? So I can be accused hilariously of "trying to score political points"? If people can see the mailing list of the CSM then I won't have to. Those who care can read it and those who don't can ignore it. Uh-oh Goon conspiracy quote detected. Perhaps it would be wiser to say that if it were only used for official communications that people were proud of then nobody would have a problem with people reading them. You're comparing apples to oranges. They did schedule a meeting on a day the US members could not attend. What does that have to do with email? Where did I claim my constituency is not the playerbase as a whole? I stated that I had the votes to be re-elected. As a matter of fact I've specifically stated the opposite multiple times. Nobody's asking for them to be molested. I'm asking them to be transparent. There's a difference. Again you refer to "internal" mail. There is no such thing. There is a mailing list and people's personal emails. I am also far from the only person supporting this issue. Saying it's just me doesn't make it so. Re: My responses... read the thread. Originally by: Jade Constantine You might be a big man on the internets Darius but prepare to be laughed at quite a lot in Europe.
Qaedienne	Posted - 2008.06.15 19:45:00 - [87] Originally by: Darius JOHNSON Stupidly evasive answer... More BS about alts. Get over it. Not going to bite on your strawman argument about email. No email is available to the public. You want CSM email to be available to the public. It's unusual, and your arguments for it are tangential at best, while the cons of it are obvious to everyone but a member of Goonswarm, apparently. You're a member of the CSM. You raise the issues and make the arguments within the council, intead of asking that all council business be made available to the public so that your loud-mouthed alliance can trash it for you. If that's too much work for you, too bad. Uh oh, Goon blinders spotted. Darius isn't aware his alliance craps all over every piece of council business. Perhaps it would be wiser to say if feedback from Goons was constructive or useful then nobody would have a problem with making more information public. (See what I did there?) The example of scheduling was used to point out that even mundane matters are crapped on and flamed by your alliance-mates. Specifically they accused Jade of being anti-American (or pro-Euro, possibly), among other things, because the timing didn't favor the U.S. CSM's. It'll take me some time to find it, but basically someone was taking you to task for CSM business, and you used that as an excuse. Don't need to ask for them to be molested, they already are. They are trying to get some work done despite this, and you are arguing for things that will enable and encourage the harassment while simultaneously not even acknowledging any harrassment exists. Draw your own conclusions.
Goumindong Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.06.15 19:48:00 - [88] There is a lot here that is just plain terrible Qaed, so ill just get a few choice ones. Originally by: Qaedienne You should tell us that. As far as I know, you're the only CSM member to claim their constituency is not the playerbase as a whole (just Goonswarm). No. The only Candidate to do that has been Jade Constantine. For someone who is complaining about the level of drama, it seems you haven't read it. Quote: Plenty. Look anywhere on the EvE boards. Look especially in the agenda threads for the first two meetings. Lord, the drama was thick, the forums were being threadnaughted! [/sarcasm]
Goumindong Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.06.15 19:54:00 - [89] Originally by: Qaedienne The example of scheduling was used to point out that even mundane matters are crapped on and flamed by your alliance-mates. Specifically they accused Jade of being anti-American (or pro-Euro, possibly), among other things, because the timing didn't favor the U.S. CSM's. Instead of asking for the Euros to stay up an extra hour or two he demanded that the U.S. representatives, whom he had already shown bias against leave work early in order to make the meeting. They aren't accusing Jade of being anti-American, they are accusing her of using the meeting scheduling to skew the votes on the council. How in the world can you not understand that dissent can be justified? The judgment on the dissent is always hinged on the judgment of the cause of the dissent. If someone was making a stink because a someone said a bad word it would be one thing. This is entirely another.
Qaedienne	Posted - 2008.06.15 21:53:00 - [90] Quote: No. The only Candidate to do that has been Jade Constantine. For someone who is complaining about the level of drama, it seems you haven't read it. Haven't read what? And feel free to link where Jade said that. Quote: Look especially in the agenda threads for the first two meetings. Lord, the drama was thick, the forums were being threadnaughted! [/sarcasm] I think you should no longer be able to critique other's posts...



Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 7 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.