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I almost killed an Astarte today!

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Scharfe Kerneisen	Posted - 2008.06.12 23:38:00 - [31] Originally by: Lenus Daragio Dude, get out in 0.0 and PvP. That's where the real PvP Fighting is. By the way, you are a huge whiner. Dude, I've been to 0.0. Here's how 0.0 PvP works. 1. Gate Camp: You setup a bubble, and you sit on the gate and you wait for stupid fools to jump through in their shuttles, rookie ships, occasionally a Nano-Fitted Vexor. Once in a blue moon a fleet might come along, with their scout. The fleet will jump the scout in, you kill it.. and the fleet turns around and goes the other way... or if your lucky, they jump in and attack you. Usually, of course if a fleet does jump in to attack you, it's because the believe they can take you... Most of the time both sides know how the battle will go before the battle even happens, so you either leave the gate and let them through or you attack them when they jump in if you think you can take them. In summery, you wait around and you kill worthless ships. Occasionaly you get lucky and kill an Amarr Covert Ops Ship Belonging to BRUCE that's carrying a Rorqual BPO and then you celebrate. But most of the time you spend waiting. 2. Roaming Gangs: You form up a fleet, usually something fast like cruisers, HACs, Interceptors, maybe a command ship. You head out with a covert ops scout or two or recon pilots in front of you. The you spend hours jumping through gates, letting the covert ops and recon pilots look for targets. Occasionally you get lucky and you find some poor hapless fool ratting who wasn't paying attention to local, or maybe a miner. Then your 10 man fleet jumps this poor battleship/maybe battle cruiser/maybe hulk and the 10 of you blast the hell out of it. Wow, awesome fight! And then you move on to looking for more targets, or you head back to your base because you've just spent four hours running around 0.0 to kill a battleship. 3. POS Warefare You show up with a massive fleet of ships. Dreads, Carriers, the usual affair. You proceed to pound on that POS until it goes into reinforced. This can take hours, depending on how large your fleet is and how many dreads you can field. Then you have to wait a day or more while the POS comes out of re-inforced mode. Then you go back, you setup your gate camps again, and your battleships and capital ships pound the POS to death. Usually the opposing fleet doesn't show up, but occasionally they do.. Then you get a decent battle... But, not often. Usually the Opposing team can't muster a large enough fleet to defend their POS so they don't bother trying. =-=-=-=-= Of course there's variations on the themes. You could roam a bit, and then camp a guy into a station! That's always good! Oh wait, that's just like empire PvP, isn't it? Oh, and you can occasionally catch some guy who's decided to run scan-sites in one of your systems. He thinks he's smart cause he cloaks up when people enter the system, and since it's at a site that needs to be probed out he figures he's safe. Of course, then you probe him out and prove him wrong. That can be fun... ...Still, most of the time spent in Eve is waiting for those little fun movements. So, yeah.. maybe I should "Go out to 0.0" and be bored there instead of being bored in empire. A change of security status makes all the difference!.. NOT!
Scharfe Kerneisen	Posted - 2008.06.12 23:48:00 - [32] Edited by: Scharfe Kerneisen on 12/06/2008 23:51:18 Edited by: Scharfe Kerneisen on 12/06/2008 23:49:50 0.0 PvPing... ------------------ 2008.04.09 06:50 Victim: Yokan Daifuku Alliance: Brutally Clever Empire Corp: The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc. Destroyed: Anathema System: F7C-H0 Security: 0.0 Damage Taken: 1562 Involved parties: Name: Ammath Security: 2.2 Alliance: R-I-P Corp: Mentis Fidelis Ship: Absolution Weapon: Absolution Damage Done: 851 Name: kelpster Security: 4.1 Alliance: R-I-P Corp: Mentis Fidelis Ship: Crow Weapon: Caldari Navy Piranha Light Missile Damage Done: 236 Name: iwill killyou Security: -0.2 Alliance: R-I-P Corp: Rising Star Empire Ship: Sabre Weapon: Sabre Damage Done: 210 Name: Stardrifter1979 (laid the final blow) Security: 0 Alliance: R-I-P Corp: Rising Star Empire Ship: Megathron Weapon: Hammerhead II Damage Done: 151 Name: Margot Macabre Security: -1.8 Alliance: R-I-P Corp: Mentis Fidelis Ship: Broadsword Weapon: 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II Damage Done: 114 Name: Dirty99s Security: 1.1 Alliance: R-I-P Corp: Hounds Of War Ship: Drake Weapon: Heavy Missile Launcher II Damage Done: 0 Destroyed items: Covert Ops Cloaking Device II Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters Warp Core Stabilizer I Warp Core Stabilizer I Dropped items: Small Hull Repairer I Small Armor Repairer I Rorqual Blueprint (Cargo) ------------ What does 0.0 PvPing have to do with the aggression docking timer being too short?
Lenus Daragio coracao ardente	Posted - 2008.06.12 23:54:00 - [33] Edited by: Lenus Daragio on 12/06/2008 23:55:13 Don't post killmails. Two, 0.0 PvP is awesome, but there is a learning curve. You can't expect to just go do something and be awesome at it. I love gate camps... not cuz I participate in them, but because it gives you so many juicy targets! And by the way, there is much more to roaming gangs than you let on. The point is to go where you know people will fight back, not to just aimlessly wander in 0.0
Scharfe Kerneisen	Posted - 2008.06.13 01:41:00 - [34] Not everyone has the numbers to go into 0.0 Not everyone wants to live under the thumb of alliances. Some people WANT TO ENJOY EMPIRE PVP. The thing is, we can't. Not the way it is now. There's not enough 0.0 space to go around. Finding targets in 0.0 isn't as easy as you claim it is. I have been there. I've done it. I got sick of 0.0 and moved to empire cause 0.0 warfare is all about POSes if your going to have any fleet battles. I got sick of alliance members bickering over where they're POSes will go, and such. Look, you act all smug like you have all the answers, but you don't. If your having so much fun in 0.0 warfare, what do you care about station jockeys in empire? Why should it take 20 ships to kill one? Why can't five kill one? Why can't you lock a guy into a 1v1 on a station? Why should a guy be allowed to dock in the middle of a fight? HE'S BEING SHOT AT! WHY IS HE ALLOWED TO DOCK!? HE SHOT PEOPLE! WHY WOULD HE BE ALLOWED TO DOCK? [Caps for Bold, not for shout.]
Nick119 Interstellar Mining and Research	Posted - 2008.06.13 06:28:00 - [35] Areed dock timer should last the whole aggression timer. ~Originally by: CCP Prism X~ Holy crap, I gave away real information!
statanspawn Infected.	Posted - 2008.06.13 10:38:00 - [36] stop spamming your own thread, and can i has your stuffs? __________________________
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2008.06.13 10:49:00 - [37] Docking games are certainly broken, have been for 5 years, it's about time they get fixed as fighting normally occurs around stations and other stellar objects and should be incouraged not made into a laughable timesink. Randomness to the undocking and possibly even station and gategun involvement in prolonged camping of the station or gate. A system where they send the campers ample warning that they need to dispers or be fired upon is one way to go to encourage people taking shots and chances not playing the mechanics for no fun down and predictable outcome which is time wasted and will to PvP removed. Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav! Also Known As
Straight Chillen Solar Wind Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service	Posted - 2008.06.13 15:10:00 - [38] i doubt anything will be done about this, for the same reason that loggonski/logoffski isnt considered an exploit.
Joe Starbreaker	Posted - 2008.06.13 16:29:00 - [39] The system isn't broken. You need to learn how to fight better. That includes using your brain. Bait the enemy, tackle him, then bring your blob. Don't cry to CCP to save you because your enemy docked and you were too dense to dock or warp away! ------------------------------------------------
Zirconium Blade Ass Pounding Space Monkeys	Posted - 2008.06.13 16:42:00 - [40] Try learning game mechanics instead of complaining about them.

Draygo Korvan Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.06.13 17:03:00 - [41] Dear op, this is a learning experience for you and your corp. After a ship de-agresses they have 30 seconds where they cannot do anything 'aggressive' but sit there and tank. When you see your target has stopped shooting, perhaps you should align your fleet to a stellar object, so if you fail to finish him off before he docks, you can warp your group of ships off. This way he cant repair, undock target and kill one of your mates. Also, it is impossible for a pilot, to dock, repair, undock, and target a ship before it can warp off assuming that the person warping off isn't stupid and trying to warp through the station constantly bumping it or is in a ship that just takes forever to align like a frieghter. 30 seconds is a lot of time to kill a subcapital ship, especially if you can break his tank. Fleet vs solo pilot in particular you should be able to ewar (ECM) the solo pilot so he is both ineffective in DPS, and make is tank fail sooner rather than later (neuts in particular). You took a risk, you were not prepared for the consequences when you should have gotten out of there before he undocked again. Instead you come to the forums whining that you couldnt warp away in time, where there was no way someone can dock and undock before even a battleship can align and warp off. And if you had battleships and they were fitted competently they should be able to last longer than 30 seconds against an astarte letting them deagress and dock up before the astarte can kill them. --
Zirconium Blade Ass Pounding Space Monkeys	Posted - 2008.06.13 18:21:00 - [42] My previous post is like the tl;dr prequel to Draygo's
Scharfe Kerneisen	Posted - 2008.06.14 03:14:00 - [43] Originally by: Straight Chillen i doubt anything will be done about this, for the same reason that loggonski/logoffski isnt considered an exploit. CCP Can't control when people log off or log on, but they can control how long and under what cercumstances someone can dock. It used to be an exploit that you could log-off and your ship would warp out of a warp disruptor or warp disruptor bubble. It was part of the rules of the game back then, you get warp scrammed and you just log off! CCP fixed that, now if you ware warp scrambled and you log off your ship stays put. This is similar to that. People are using something that is part of the games code to escape combat that they would otherwise lose. Originally by: Joe Starbreaker The system isn't broken. You need to learn how to fight better. That includes using your brain. Bait the enemy, tackle him, then bring your blob. Don't cry to CCP to save you because your enemy docked and you were too dense to dock or warp away! First of all, there was a 'small' blob already. If you weren't reading there were five ships online. Secondly, how is it fair that you need 20 people to be logged online to kill one ship? It is very difficult to get more then 40 people into a corporation, then again get more then five people online at any given time. Big alliances can get big blobs, but why should they need 20 ships to kill one? What if it was a 1v1 outside a station? My ship verses his, and I get him into strucuture.. Oh, he just docks up and repairs, gets a new capacitor, and then undocks and starts attacking me. I'm supposed to now do the same? What if I was using neutralizers on him (as the case was [though not spoke about] with the Astarte) I'm out of cap because my neutralizers drained my cap. He was out of cap because my neutralizers drained his cap. Now he docks, and when he undocks with a full cap, my cap is empty and he's able to rip through my armor tank because I can't repair because I have no cap. I drained his cap, his cap should have been dead, it's not fair that he docks and gets a new cap. Then his reppers work, his ECM works, and oh he's able to fire his guns again. So what's the point in neutralizing his cap? What's the point in fighting at all, if all the guy has to do is dock to restart the battle for him, and you don't get a fresh start when he docks, cause you have to wait until your aggression timer is gone before you can dock and by then he's undocking. =-=-=-= Right now two nearly-equally matched ships fighting out side a station with-in docking range in theory could never kill each other. The only way one could kill the other is with a blob. Actually no.. One ship that slightly is better then the other couldn't kill the other, because he's only marginally better. So, the one that's marginally worse docks up. The battle couldn't be finished! =-=--=-= This isn't like a log-on trap at all. This is more like logging-off to escape battle. CCP fixed it so people couldn't log off to escape battle, (and people cried "oh but what if I lose connection", but I think most agree it's better this way) now CCP needs to fix it so they can't dock or jump through gates to escape battle.
Doug LeSaurus	Posted - 2008.06.14 14:45:00 - [44] I agree with scharfe on the fact that station jockey should be an exploit, and there should be a longer timer for docking, but only if a player is shooting back. Not just undocking, getting shot at and then not returning fire to avoid getting into a bad situation and then redocking. I mean If I was at war with someone and then went to Jita to buy a faction BS with a full faction fit for doing missions or ratting in 0.0 space and undocked with said ship, then getting it blown up because they were camping the station. Just my thoughts, Doug
Razoran	Posted - 2008.06.14 16:36:00 - [45] I completely agree with the OP.Its like a hospital allowing someone in the middle of a gunfight to run inside and get patched up and then run out again guns blazing.Its just plain stupid. and frankly, having to bump someone in order to prevent them from taking unfair advantage of a situation is also stupid. Why should i have to ram my ship into someone to keep him from becoming dammed near invincible, at least until his isk runs out? Straight up fights are rare enough in eve as it is, mostly its a race to pop someone before they can disappear. This just increases the problem by giving people a safe haven to run to whenever they want, without even the risks that have to be faced by ppl warping away from a fight. It can easly be fixed by implementing a longer timer before redocking is allowed for those who have returned fire.
Galan Amarias The Drekla Consortium	Posted - 2008.06.15 05:20:00 - [46] Originally by: Scharfe Kerneisen Bumping is an exploit of it's own. I was initially sypathetic to your cause. It's possible that 1 minute isn't enough from agression to gate/station access. Then you go and rant through some of this utter fail? Bumping an exploit?! If bumping weren't an intended game mechanic they would have made ships uncolidable when they patched cans to be uncolidable. The only time bumping has been an exploit was with POS bowling. They fixed that. Originally by: Scharfe Kerneisen Eve is designed to be character skill based, not player skill based. Your ability to bump a ship off the station or not is based on so many factors and has nothing to do with character skill other then what ship your flying and whether or not it has an MWD. What?! Seriously, you honestly believe SP should always triumph? That player skill has no place in this game? Then why isn't there a skill "Ideal ship fitting" or "Market manipulation" This game is solid player skill with options on how that skill will be employed offered by increased SP. Originally by: Scharfe Kerneisen I play Eve for the PvP. I've done 0.0 PvP, I've done empire PvP. And for all the beauty of this game.. for all it's promis.. Most of the time I spend waiting for the right numbers just to get the action started. Then once we have the right numbers, we have to trick the enemy into thinking we don't have more numbers then them just for them to come out and play. Then when they do come out and play, and my team of ambushers jump through the gates of the next door system (of which they could have been waiting for HOURS!!!!) and charge in barrelling down on the target(s)! The target(s) say, "Oh &$#@!" deaggress and dock back up. This is the part that totaly set me against your <explative deleted>. You freely admit that you will not engage unless the numbers favor you BUT you complain when your enemies do the same?! You think you should be able to play games with the stargates, but heaven forbid your oponents pay attention to local or disengage a fight they know they will lose. Then! Then! when you finally get an oponent willing to engage you at 5 to 1 odds when you have ECM support! You let him kill two of you trying to get the DPS to ruin him. Hey newsflash if 5 of you couldn't kill him, 4 sure as crap can't, but you stick arround, don't even try to bait him to a belt, and he kills another of you, then calls 1 friend and 2v3 they clean your clocks.. So having failed utterly at in game combat you come here to suggest a rules change because you can't be bothered to station camp with high dps ships? Fail, fail, fail, fail, fail and fail. Like I said, had you kept the story to, "It's too easy to redock after fighting." I would have been likely to support you. Try upping your game before you whine for rules to be changed. Hell try fighting at slightly outnumbered odds and see what you can come up with.. It might be fun. -Galan The answer to empire ganking
Caleese New Eden Research And Design School	Posted - 2008.06.15 07:45:00 - [47] Originally by: Scharfe Kerneisen Eve is designed to be character skill based, not player skill based. Ya know, up until you spouted that nonsense I was happy to back you up in this thread. Yes playing the undock game is lame, and yes the aggression timer should be lengthened when it comes to docking (not gates) but saying that the game is about skill points and not player skill is quite possibly the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. One of the best parts about this game is watching a bunch of noobs kick the ass of anyone foolish enough to believe that skill points mean more than actual skill. Seriously, I suggest you stop posting now before you make an even bigger fool of yourself. ----------------- Think of someone you consider of average intelligence... now realise this. Half the worlds population is dumber than that person. How does the world survive such stupidity?
Hun Jakuza Naughty By Nature	Posted - 2008.06.15 11:41:00 - [48] Edited by: Hun Jakuza on 15/06/2008 11:43:58 Edited by: Hun Jakuza on 15/06/2008 11:42:40 Signed 10000 times. Who was that idiot who enabled 1 min deagress and redock ? This game mechanic is a stupidity. Why ? Because the agressor get 15 min global criminal in low and high sec, the sentry shoot him but the gate and station enabled him redock or jump across to gate . That is a joke. This game mechanic = nonsense, because this pilot not get any penalty while he shoot at friendly station. An option for redock. 15 minute undocking option or 10 million penalty if he trying to dock while he have 15min global criminal flag. Some dockfighter within 1 day playing deagress and redock over 100 times. If they are lost too mutch money, maybe they should be stop this unskilled combat actions.
Maverick Ice	Posted - 2008.06.15 12:55:00 - [49] Personally, if someone at the station takes an aggressive action (i.e. damages someone, or assists someone that is aggressed), the station should repulse the ship away from the station to the tune of at least 5000m for the duration of their "can't dock" timer. That'd give people a shot at the station jockey that likes to shoot, de-aggress and redock, all while sitting within docking range.
Sgt Blade Save Yourself Inc.	Posted - 2008.06.15 14:09:00 - [50] In all honesty, my 1 Astarte vs all you guys would have died so easily if you only used some tactics.... it is NOT an exploit in docking when i need to, because guess what most of the time i had to dock was when i was perma-jammed by a falcon. Some Main Points. Crow does not orbit me with mwd on at within web range Falcon and Hound does not stay within ownage range of my guns Having a Domi, Myrm and Proph unable to pretty much gank an astarte means you need more damage With THOSE odds its was all in YOUR favour, you had the option to dock and redock and to get at RANGE for your specialised ships but instead let me kill you all one by one The whole dock and redock argument is completely void because everyone in the game has the option to do so. its the same with gates. if you have a target within jump range, you get 1 ship to shoot it while everyone else is ready to jump through with it. its just your general way of playing eve. change anything with the station dock/undock aggro timers and it will have to get changed with gates aswell Hypnotic Pelvic Thrusting Level 5

Sgt Blade Save Yourself Inc.	Posted - 2008.06.15 14:17:00 - [51] Originally by: Akirashinu station jockeys are definately cowards. lets play this game with some enthusiasm people. how can i be a coward if i was outnumbered 5 v 1 Hypnotic Pelvic Thrusting Level 5
Sgt Blade Save Yourself Inc.	Posted - 2008.06.15 14:18:00 - [52] Originally by: Anubis Xian I agree, 5 mins is good...do it for stargates too. that would be bad....assuming your running down the low sec pipe with a interceptor jsut getting past it all and not wanting a fight, say a pirate shoots you once..... your willing to sit in system for 5 minutes? Hypnotic Pelvic Thrusting Level 5
Sgt Blade Save Yourself Inc.	Posted - 2008.06.15 14:31:00 - [53] Originally by: Scharfe Kerneisen Edited by: Scharfe Kerneisen on 14/06/2008 03:21:51 What if I was using neutralizers on him (as the case was [though not spoke about] with the Astarte) I'm out of cap because my neutralizers drained my cap. He was out of cap because my neutralizers drained his cap. Now he docks, and when he undocks with a full cap, my cap is empty and he's able to rip through my armor tank because I can't repair because I have no cap. I drained his cap, his cap should have been dead, it's not fair that he docks and gets a new cap. Then his reppers work, his ECM works, and oh he's able to fire his guns again. So what's the point in neutralizing his cap? may i note that i was NEVER out of cap.... if you don't know why think about it and do you know why i am able to shoot again after undock? because the falcon isnt able to jam me that fast so i get a few shots out. and by the way you took me to structure ONCE. and guess what. i was deeply amazed that i was still alive after that battle because i hull tanked your weak damage for at least a minute Hypnotic Pelvic Thrusting Level 5
Grammer The Blue Dagger Mercenery Agency	Posted - 2008.06.15 15:00:00 - [54] Edited by: Grammer on 15/06/2008 15:05:50 Edited by: Grammer on 15/06/2008 15:01:36 Originally by: Scharfe Kerneisen Bumping is an exploit of it's own. Eve is designed to be character skill based, not player skill based. Your ability to bump a ship off the station or not is based on so many factors and has nothing to do with character skill other then what ship your flying and whether or not it has an MWD. Fail, if EVE was all character base and not player base, you would then be on the forums complaining that there would a small chance of beating a higher sp character. EVE is more player experience based. Which by looking at the battle you guys have very little. Example 1: Your falcon has 5 orge II coming after and he sits there still jamming me, he could have warped off and come back 50km+ away and jam us. Example 2: Your Prophecy setup... You fiting an autocannon to it.It's an Amarr ship, not a mimmy ship. Link to kills for your viewing pleasure Originally by: Scharfe Kerneisen The enemy chooses stations that have large docking areas, and stations that undock ships in the middle of the station. (Like the Gallente Round, half moon ones.) Correct me if I am wrong but you guys decided to base out of that station. Now to my knowledge every time i have undocked you guys have always been humping the station. And yesterday we killed one of your scorp pilot. You guys had a claymore and mega which aggressed me , but after we killed the scorp they deaggressed and docked. So come back to the forum and whine after your corperation, stop using the exact same tactics. A perscription for killing ship. Get more experience Get better ship fits!!! If you still can't kill1(2) people, go mine in empire! Any finally Originally by: Scharfe Kerneisen Right now CCP give me three options: 1. Keep losing to station jockey. 2. Become a cowardly station jockey. 3. Quit Eve. Can i have your stuff
oilio State War Academy	Posted - 2008.06.15 15:43:00 - [55] Signed. If someone fires a shot, they should have to wait longer before they can redock. Nasty station-hugging cowards should be nerfed into the floor. They should be allowed to fight, or allowed to dock, but not allowed to start trouble and then dock after a ridiculously short time.
Niram Tar Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.06.15 15:54:00 - [56] So you had a single autocannon, 2 launchers and 3 light blasters to go with 2 sets of damage drones and you couldn't take out a command ship?!?! Learn to play and if you don't, can i have your stuff?
Grammer The Blue Dagger Mercenery Agency	Posted - 2008.06.15 15:56:00 - [57] Originally by: oilio Signed. If someone fires a shot, they should have to wait longer before they can redock. Nasty station-hugging cowards should be nerfed into the floor. They should be allowed to fight, or allowed to dock, but not allowed to start trouble and then dock after a ridiculously short time. Not posting with your main 4tl
Jayna Keria Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.06.15 16:15:00 - [58] Originally by: Scharfe Kerneisen Why should a guy be allowed to dock in the middle of a fight? HE'S BEING SHOT AT! WHY IS HE ALLOWED TO DOCK!? HE SHOT PEOPLE! WHY WOULD HE BE ALLOWED TO DOCK? [Caps for Bold, not for shout.] ...you can too
Sgt Blade Save Yourself Inc.	Posted - 2008.06.15 16:21:00 - [59] Originally by: oilio Signed. If someone fires a shot, they should have to wait longer before they can redock. Nasty station-hugging cowards should be nerfed into the floor. They should be allowed to fight, or allowed to dock, but not allowed to start trouble and then dock after a ridiculously short time. 30 seconds is not ridiculously short amount of time, its enough imho Hypnotic Pelvic Thrusting Level 5
oilio State War Academy	Posted - 2008.06.15 16:48:00 - [60] Originally by: Grammer Originally by: oilio Signed. If someone fires a shot, they should have to wait longer before they can redock. Nasty station-hugging cowards should be nerfed into the floor. They should be allowed to fight, or allowed to dock, but not allowed to start trouble and then dock after a ridiculously short time. Not posting with your main 4tl Moron. The issue is about docking times. If I posted with a different character, would it make any difference to the argument?



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