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I almost killed an Astarte today!

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Kakita Jalaan Viriette Commerce and Holding	Posted - 2008.06.19 10:29:00 - [91] I agree with the OP, 1 minute is a ridiculously short delay for somebody to redock who just started a fight. Sure, one can learn to live with it as a game reality, as many did, but it's still a stupid design loophole. You undock, you shoot versus players, you can't redock for say 5 minutes. I mean, with the logoff rules while under player fire, why aren't the exactly same rules applied to docking when under player fire? At least when you started the fight or actively fought back? Undocking, realizing it was a bad idea and then sitting it out for a minute is alright, but undocking, fighting and then escaping from the fight (not even making an effort to do so) is just lame. ______________ Join the Family
Stardrifter1979	Posted - 2008.06.19 11:52:00 - [92] By the way that same Astarte and Domi got pawned in about 2min. The astarte only lasted about 32 seconds after he undocked. I lost a hurricane, but it was well worth it. As the insurance was running out and it had no rigs so a perfect suicide ship. But as far as the timers for redocking, once he or anyone else engages it should be a few minutes before you can redock. If you don't engage then you should be able to redock whenever you want. EVE is all about choices and this would make your choices count more towards your actions. Fight hard, Fight noble
Scharfe Kerneisen	Posted - 2008.06.25 05:30:00 - [93] Edited by: Scharfe Kerneisen on 25/06/2008 05:30:35 Originally by: Marcus Gideon Waa waa waa... Everyone here needs a straw, so they can Suck It Up and deal. I'll admit, it would make sense in a storyline fashion, for the station to refuse admittance to someone who is taking fire. They could possibly allow stray rounds into the docking bay and damage those inside. But at the same time, wouldn't you expect a proper response if you're charging at the gates to the fort yelling "Open the gates, they're right behind me!" I can easily imagine a single guy running towards a castle screaming "OPEN THE GATES! OPEN THE GATES! THEY'RE RIGHT BEHIND ME!" Then the castle guard says: "I'm sorry but they're too close they might get in behind you. Sucks to be you." In fact, I've seen medieval era movies where that has happened! Of course in medieval movies they don't have machine guns, missiles, bombs and such. Story aside, I feel it's a poor game mechanic. The guy undocks and opens fire on a ship, he should be stuck to finish the fight. He shouldn't be able to undock in a battleship, kill a cruiser, and then before the other battleship that was waiting outside can kill him redock and repair. A cruiser and a battleship can't kill a battlecruiser because the battlecruiser docks and repairs. How is that fair to the cruiser? How is that fair to the battleship isn't allowed to kill a battlecruiser that just undocked and killed his an allied cruiser? =-=-=-= A tempest sits outside a station waiting for an enemy to undock. The enemy undocks in a Dominix and opens fire on the Tempest. The tempest returns fire. The Domi figures out that he's not able to kill the tempest, so he unagresses and docks. Then the Dominix undocks before the Tempest can dock. The tempest has two options now. Warp off and run away, allowing an enemy he would have been able to kill if it wasn't allowed to dock to escape now, since the tempest is only at half strength after the battle but the Domi is not back to full stregnth. Engage the Dominix at half strength and probably die. Wait there and let the Domi shoot him, then dock up himself, in which case the Domi runs away and has once again escaped!
Scharfe Kerneisen	Posted - 2008.06.25 05:32:00 - [94] Edited by: Scharfe Kerneisen on 25/06/2008 05:32:23 If the person who camps the station is going to always lose, since the other side is always going to dock up or escape when you dock up, then you have to always play on the defensive to win. If both sides play the defensive to win, then neither side ever attacks, so what's the point of having a war?
Yolan Wo	Posted - 2008.06.25 06:58:00 - [95] Looking at the fittings at the killmails of your ships it is painfully obvious that you guys are noobs! That same guy who tanked you would not last 15 seconds against a proper setup gang. There is nothing wrong with the docking mechanic. The only thing wrong here is your inability to learn and adapt and therefor you want the game to change instead. Stupidity at its best. Where do you fly btw? I want to better my scores on my pvp-mains alliance kb and noob-fishing would do it
Jeckes	Posted - 2008.06.25 09:12:00 - [96] /signed. its obviously stupid as hell and needs to be nerfed.
Cedille	Posted - 2008.06.25 11:20:00 - [97] in this story your are the noob trying to kill someone at docking range Scharfe... sorry
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2008.06.25 11:36:00 - [98] The docking game is a sorry broken mess, always have been and always will be it seems since CCP refuse to acknowledge that this sham of a system isn't a feature but an abomination. Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav! Also Known As
Rhanna Khurin	Posted - 2008.06.25 11:38:00 - [99] Just dont sit outside spacestations trying to blast someone. Go somewhere else in system (safespot maybe) and see what the enemy does maybe using a spy. Station games have happened before the advent of time as we know it.
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2008.06.25 11:43:00 - [100] Originally by: Rhanna Khurin Just dont sit outside spacestations trying to blast someone. Go somewhere else in system (safespot maybe) and see what the enemy does maybe using a spy. Station games have happened before the advent of time as we know it. This means they're not broken? Please, there are few systems where fighting will occur and people not escape, oh wait... Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav! Also Known As
Niram Tar Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.06.25 11:52:00 - [101] Originally by: Scharfe Kerneisen Without war, I have no reason to play Eve. So what you're saying is you're not just a carebear who got dec'd, you actually suck at a proffesional level. If your battleship can't kill another battleship before agression countdown you fail, he's gonna want your kill just as much and will not disengage before it's certain he will loose.
Captain Bringdown Rage Against the Answering Machine	Posted - 2008.06.25 13:01:00 - [102] This puts the whole topic into a different perspective doesnt it?
Scharfe Kerneisen	Posted - 2008.06.26 02:37:00 - [103] Edited by: Scharfe Kerneisen on 26/06/2008 02:39:58 Originally by: Captain Bringdown This puts the whole topic into a different perspective doesnt it? LOL! Not even all those kills are real! Someone has to lie about the kills on me. That must really mean something. Edit: And one of those prophecy losses which is real, I lost connection and we killed the bunch that killed that ship.
Scharfe Kerneisen	Posted - 2008.06.26 02:55:00 - [104] We managed to kill the Astarte, and the guy hasn't logged on Eve longer then it takes to change skills since. We killed the Astarte! Yea! "Station Tactics" are still lame and need to be fixed!
General StarScream Empyrean Gallente	Posted - 2008.06.26 04:31:00 - [105] shorter agress timer is needed, if you fight at gates, stations your lame anyway. Please resize signature to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Algia Knightstorm	Posted - 2008.06.26 10:49:00 - [106] Originally by: Scharfe Kerneisen Edited by: Scharfe Kerneisen on 14/06/2008 03:34:41 Right now CCP give me three options: 1. Keep losing to station jockey. 2. Become a cowardly station jockey. 3. Quit Eve. 4. War dec a PvP Corps 5. Go to lo-sec or 0.0 fixed it for ya. IN your case though, I think option 3 is by far the best option for everyone in EVE
Scharfe Kerneisen	Posted - 2008.06.26 17:54:00 - [107] Edited by: Scharfe Kerneisen on 26/06/2008 18:02:35 Originally by: Algia Knightstorm Originally by: Scharfe Kerneisen Edited by: Scharfe Kerneisen on 14/06/2008 03:34:41 Right now CCP give me three options: 1. Keep losing to station jockey. 2. Become a cowardly station jockey. 3. Quit Eve. 4. War dec a PvP Corps 5. Go to lo-sec or 0.0 fixed it for ya. IN your case though, I think option 3 is by far the best option for everyone in EVE The Blue Dagger Mercenary group is supposedly a PvP corp. It's part of the reason we war dec'd em. We thought they'd give us some good fights... Maybe some fights off of a stupid station. I've been to 0.0. In 0.0 you roam around hoping to find some stupid ratter who wasn't paying attention to local. Then you gang bang him 10 to 1. You occasionally attack POS towers, but generally the enemy doesn't fight you... Sometimes they show up to defend their towers, but not often enough. Or you sit on a gate for several hours board out of our mind waiting for shuttles, rookie ships, and the occasional covert ops ship to jump through. Then hope you can lock it and shoot it fast enough to get on the kill mail. I'm not saying that good battles never happen in Eve. I'm saying that good battles (they need a finish to be a good battle) don't happen enough in Eve. I've been to 0.0, and these guys were supposedly a PvP corp. So far we've only gotten a fight out of one of them (and his alt). =-=-= Edit: I'm seriously considering it. It's just sad there's no other spaceship themed MMORPG out there right now. Eve has the monopoly on spaceship MMORPGs. I don't like restrictive 'classes' of other MMORPGs, or I'd be playing them instead. If another MMORPG comes out that has spaceships and is free form in how you can design them and such, I'm all over it. I paid for Eve though, and I'm waiting for my account time to run out. I'm honestly not sure if I'm going to bother renewing it. This, but not this alone, is a factor. There's other things about Eve that are really getting on my nerves. However, this thread is about station jockeys/station hangers. =-=-=-= So many of you try to act like I'm the only person who feels station jockeys are lame. These guys aren't the story I started this thread with wasn't the first time station jockeys did their station games with me. They've done it in low sec, they've done it in 0.0, and they do it in empire. It doesn't matter where you go. And it's lame where ever it goes. I'm also not the only person in Eve who thinks it's lame. Of course the people who exploit the system aren't going to want it changed. Just like the people who used to put a bunch of stabs on their ships so it would take 10 people to scramble them! They didn't want warp-stabs changed. CCP changed that, and look now it doesn't take 10 people to tackle someone! But it still takes 10 people to try to kill one off a station. You have to have someone small and fast to bump them. You have to have someone who can tank to take the damage. And you generally have to have multiple ships with lots of DPS to kill them. You can't use ECM on them, cause that makes it so they can just dock sooner then they realize they need to. So ECM is utterly worthless and you need a fleet to kill one person! How does that make sense?
Scharfe Kerneisen	Posted - 2008.06.26 18:07:00 - [108] You'd think everyone who trained for ECM ships (Blackbird, Falcons, etc.) would be upset that their ships are worthless in most battles because they can't use them against an opponent on a station. And most battles take place on a station because these guys never leave docking range of the station. They just sit right on top of the station, humping it, and trash talking in local. I've seen these guys undock and fly directly to the middle of the station so they can't be bumped anywhere. If you move, they move to a new station and do the same thing. It's lame. They don't have the gonads to match you in a fight off the station. Even if you try to fight them on a gate, they'll do the same thing, just jump through the gate and run away to some station in the other system.. or jump, jump, and jump away. So you can't fight them on stations. You can't fight them on gates. They wont fight you in belts. They wont fight you at planets. They wont fight you at moons. So where are you supposed to kill these guys?
KingOzar State Protectorate Academy	Posted - 2008.06.26 18:55:00 - [109] Originally by: Scharfe Kerneisen You'd think everyone who trained for ECM ships (Blackbird, Falcons, etc.) would be upset that their ships are worthless in most battles because they can't use them against an opponent on a station. And most battles take place on a station because these guys never leave docking range of the station. They just sit right on top of the station, humping it, and trash talking in local. I've seen these guys undock and fly directly to the middle of the station so they can't be bumped anywhere. If you move, they move to a new station and do the same thing. It's lame. They don't have the gonads to match you in a fight off the station. Even if you try to fight them on a gate, they'll do the same thing, just jump through the gate and run away to some station in the other system.. or jump, jump, and jump away. So you can't fight them on stations. You can't fight them on gates. They wont fight you in belts. They wont fight you at planets. They wont fight you at moons. So where are you supposed to kill these guys? Bump them off station, it's not that hard. Kill them before they redock, its not that hard. Stop whining and work around the game mechanics. Or quit and don't pvp. If they hug stations and you don't, then you have more guts. move along. Trash talking idiots do only that. Talk trash. They aren't worth your time.
Zirconium Blade Ass Pounding Space Monkeys	Posted - 2008.06.26 19:09:00 - [110] The docking game is just that, a game. Either play it or dont. Its not broken.
Car Wars Shinra Shinra Alliance	Posted - 2008.06.26 22:17:00 - [111] Originally by: Scharfe Kerneisen So you can't fight them on stations. You can't fight them on gates. They wont fight you in belts. They wont fight you at planets. They wont fight you at moons. So where are you supposed to kill these guys? Thats right YOU can't fight them. YOU will never kill them unless you get a clue about pvp. Go have some cheese to go with your whine.
ChalSto LOCKDOWN.	Posted - 2008.06.27 00:03:00 - [112] To the OP: I think you havent come out of empire to pvp much. Therefore the lack of pvp-experience and the lack of understanding how this game works. Your opponent simply used the game-mechanics to get the advantage against your superiour numbers. EvE is a game of options and decisions. You decided to engage with your tactics and you lost. Solution: Come up with a better tactic, or a player that can face him on his pvp-experience-level. If you dont WANT to learn, then you deserve to die. Simply as that. Wellcome to EvE Originally by: Agmar ----------------------------------------------- "The North is so ghey that even the NPCs fly ravens."
Stardrifter1979	Posted - 2008.06.29 11:09:00 - [113] Originally by: ChalSto To the OP: I think you havent come out of empire to pvp much. Therefore the lack of pvp-experience and the lack of understanding how this game works. Your opponent simply used the game-mechanics to get the advantage against your superiour numbers. EvE is a game of options and decisions. You decided to engage with your tactics and you lost. Solution: Come up with a better tactic, or a player that can face him on his pvp-experience-level. If you dont WANT to learn, then you deserve to die. Simply as that. Wellcome to EvE Its spelt "welcome"
Scharfe Kerneisen	Posted - 2008.06.29 19:35:00 - [114] Originally by: ChalSto To the OP: I think you havent come out of empire to pvp much. Therefore the lack of pvp-experience and the lack of understanding how this game works. Your opponent simply used the game-mechanics to get the advantage against your superiour numbers. EvE is a game of options and decisions. You decided to engage with your tactics and you lost. Solution: Come up with a better tactic, or a player that can face him on his pvp-experience-level. If you dont WANT to learn, then you deserve to die. Simply as that. Wellcome to EvE You're trying to say that people don't do 'station tactics' in 0.0 or low-sec? If your trying to say that, then it's obvious to me that you've never been to low-sec or 0.0.
Galan Amarias Amarr The Drekla Consortium	Posted - 2008.06.30 06:27:00 - [115] Originally by: Scharfe Kerneisen You're trying to say that people don't do 'station tactics' in 0.0 or low-sec? If your trying to say that, then it's obvious to me that you've never been to low-sec or 0.0. You sir are made of fail. You had a gang of five, with ECM, and one guy has the balls to engage you 1v5. He didn't whine about blobbing, or ECM, he wasn't on that idiotic nerf the falcon thread. He went 1v5 and wasted two of you solo because you had junk setups with no dps. More over you contunually whine about being "blue balled" as if you are somehow entitled to gratificafion you were not able to achieve on your own merit. Lets say the situation were different, you caught him in a belt and your ECM permajamed him. Would he get to complain about being "blue balled"? Or does he just have to suck it up? I know he wouldn't have a big whinie fail thread here in F&I. Why did you stay at the station after he killed one of you? You knew you couldn't kill him with five so why did you think four would win? What would you be saying about your encounter if he couldn't redock? He'd have known he couldn't redock and he'd never have come out at those odds. You'd have had no action at all until his Domi friend got there then they'd have rolled your failfleet and you'd probably be posting that T2 or domis' or soemthing is overpowered. You claim that PVP only happens at stations. And you whine that people you shoot at can redock. Sounds to me like you only know how to camp stations in empire hoping someone is too stupid to check local. Would you whine if he had an exit ss and was able to warp away before you could lock him down? Would you be screaming nerf the invulrnability timer on undock? Finally, yes quit EVE and when you do, can I have your stuff? -Galan
WARTECH ASSASSIN	Posted - 2008.09.07 09:57:00 - [116] /.signed But let me add that he should not be able to dock ONLY IF he shoots back. The others have a good point about piracy and docking as a valid means of escape/hiding. Don't just say its game mechanics and period it at that. That simply shuts off any room to improve EVE. It must constantly grow and look at ways to improve game play.
Sir Substance Minmatar MagiTech Alliance Inc.	Posted - 2008.09.07 10:36:00 - [117] Originally by: Anubis Xian I agree, 5 mins is good...do it for stargates too. yea, that's a brilliant idea, that way, if im moving 5 jumps, it will take me 25 minutes instead of, say, 4. i support the station one. people who want to dock because they have no hope are fine, people who dock and undock as a fighting style get owned. works for me. - PvPers always say "GB2WoW". the message is that EVE is hard, and people just need to deal with it. wasn't it funny how when nano's started making it hard for them, that all went out the window?
Fullmetal Jackass	Posted - 2008.09.07 11:35:00 - [118] Originally by: Sir Substance Originally by: Anubis Xian I agree, 5 mins is good...do it for stargates too. yea, that's a brilliant idea, that way, if im moving 5 jumps, it will take me 25 minutes instead of, say, 4. i support the station one. people who want to dock because they have no hope are fine, people who dock and undock as a fighting style get owned. works for me. Are you gonna fire on someone in every single system you travel through? 5 minutes for a gate is probably too long if you open fire though. If you attack somone who then runs back through, yer fubared. 1 minute? I think taking active participation in combat should prohibit you from docking for a full 15 minutes. The timer should be refreshed every time a player makes a hostile action against another player. The bottom line is, if yer gonna start a fight, or join in on a fight, you shouldn't be able to go cry to mommy. Station "pee-a-boo" is about as gay as a rainbow leotard. Man up and have some honor. Fight it out or avoid destruction for the full timer.
Jalmari Huitsikko Caldari Karjala Inc.	Posted - 2008.09.07 11:53:00 - [119] OP and his pals probably epically failed. However. Aggro timers and stuff could use some work, specially in empire space. 0.0 is probably fine as it is, except logoffski delays and stuff...
Kel Nissa	Posted - 2008.09.07 15:22:00 - [120] The current docking games are part of the game mechanic. Really! Still using this sort of game mechanic as strategy in such an abusive form is really close to be an exploit. Docking games suck. They are one of the most annoying parts within eve. Old well trained players use this mechanic to kill novice players. Use your well tanked command ship, maybe your well tech 2 fittet megathron and war dec a 5 month old corp. Its obviously that the new players will lose some ships because they are unaware of this sort of game mechanic and even when they are willing to engage you are sure that docking will work because of their low dps. And its even more annoying when there are several carriers or even huger ships docked in kamela (amarrs like docking games in faction war). And astarte is a real hard nut to break. Dont expect to be able to have a chance vs such a ship when you are just a 5 man gang and its one of this stations with a far to long docking range. CCP should change something. Whatever it is. Personally i would love when the ship size is included into the calculation. Parking a bicycle is really easy or? A smart is also just easy. But try it with a hammer or maybe something huger. Not so funny. Why is it possible to dock a capital sized ship in the same amount of time as it is possible to dock a small frig? It would be neat to see something like: 1 min for frigs, 1.5 min for destroyers up to several mins for battleships. And even higher for carriers. Scrambled ships should not be able to use a jump gate. Or maybe the jump gate should include something like a activation time. Insta jump should be something like 10 sec for a frig up to 30 sec for a BS. When the ship is able to tank this amount of time: okay im fine with that. Yes i know the current mechanic works like it works. I should learn to play like the mechanic works. Blabla we already had this kind of argumentation. This sort of arguments suck. If some kind of mechanic is obviously broken, someone should consider to improve it.

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