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Scharfe Kerneisen
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Posted - 2008.06.12 04:08:00 -
[1]
An Astarte attacked and killed one of my corp members today. The corp undocked and attacked this Astarte. We got it into structure and then it docked.
We were still aggressed, from trying to kill it. It was almost dead. Then before we could dock, he undocks again, fully repaired, attacks and kills one of our other corp members. He then deagresssed again, and we get him into structure again. He docked.
We're waiting for our aggression timers to end, and before we can redock he undocks again and starts attacking another one of us. We have another corp member join us. We get the Astarte into strucure, and he then his friend shows up. The Atarte's Friend, a Dominix kills one of our ships (Our ECM) and then our FC calls for us all to just break and dock.
Then the Dominix and Astarte kill off the rest of our fleet before we can deagress and dock or warp off.
Why is someone getting shot at allowed to dock at a station? He destroyed one of our ships, he shot another ship, why should he be allowed to dock in such a short time after that? We had a fleet of ships there that could have killed him if we had another minute to do so. Why should he be allowed to dock and repair? And then we couldn't dock, because we had our 1 minute timers.. So he comes out fully repaired and kills another one of us.
I'll admit, we needed a bit more DPS in our group. I'll also admit an Astarte is a strong ship, no doubt. Still, I ask why should he be allowed to dock and repair in the middle of a battle? Why are we, a FLEET OF SHIPS not allowed to avenge our fallen comrad? Why should he be allowed to pick a fight with us, and then when he's webbed, scrammed, and jammed up.. OOPS! He screwed up! He's screwed now! Oh, no.. wait.. He can dock. All the scrams, jams, and webs in the world on him can't stop him from docking!
Oh sure, we bumped him. We bumped and bumped him, but the docking range on the station is so large a Titan probably couldn't bump him off of it.
Why would someone who's just engaged a ship, killed a ship, and BEING SHOT AT be allowed to dock?
=-=-=-=-=
If You CCP wants to allow the carebears who don't attack people to be allowed to dock back up, I can understand that. They didn't attack anyone.
But why bother with a 1 minute timer? It's not long enough.
I believe the timer should be changed to match the aggression timer. 15 minutes!
If someone attacks me, I should have 15 minutes at least to kill him!
=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Why would a station allow someone to dock up while being shot at though? If they open their docking ports (story wise speaking) the ship attacking could shoot inside the station and blow up the docks. Kill dock workers, and cause damage that must be repaired to the station.
Why wouldn't a station, in the name of protecting it's self, not let you redock. "I'm sorry, we can not open our blast doors or docking doors to allow you to dock as long as there is gun fire outside the station."
=-=-=-=-=-=-=
If you want to allow carebears to redock, then allow the carebears to do so. Please, change this stupid jack-in-the-box thing. It's not right that one ship can undock, kill a ship, redock, undock, kill a ship, redock, undock, kill a ship, and redock all day long.
Station jockeys are lamers. If your in a lone ship and you engage a fleet of ships (be it outside a station or not) you should be stuck their until that fleet is dead or you are. Or don't engage them in the first place!
I'm not opposed to strong ships in Eve. I'm not even opposed to one ship being able to destroy multiple ships.
I'm opposed to the fact that most engagements take place at stargates or stations, and that someone who is out numbered, out matched (if not for the escape gate or escape station) is allowed to get out of my scrams, my webs. What's the point of a scram and a web if the guy can simply dock or jump to escape? Why bother fitting a scram or web? Why not just let him warp away!? |
Scharfe Kerneisen
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Posted - 2008.06.12 04:10:00 -
[2]
Look, as a company you want to try to please everyone. You want to allow the non-PvPers to escape and run away. I understand that.
Just stop the guys who start fights from docking up when they should otherwise die.
I whole corp shows up to fight a guy, and he docks up. Hell.. He might even not undock after he docks... Once he knows he's out numbered. I wouldn't!
Why should docking be an option to a guy who just killed a ship?
He should have to deal with that ships friends. Without the ability to dock and get repairs in the middle of a battle. |
Scharfe Kerneisen
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Posted - 2008.06.12 04:17:00 -
[3]
I want real battles. I'm so sick of cheap tactics in Eve.
Right now CCP give me three options:
1. Keep losing to station jockey.
2. Become a cowardly station jockey.
3. Quit Eve.
If a guy starts a fight with 5 ships, he should have to kill all 5 ships, warp off, or die. He shouldn't be allowed to dock until one of those three conditions have been met: 1. He manages to warp off; 2. He dies; 3. He kills all five ships he started the fight with.
=-=-=-=-=
CCP who do you want to make happier? The small number of station jockey jerks who undock and destroy a ship, then run back into the station, or the five guys who would have killed that jerk if he hadn't been allowed to dock back in the station?
What would you rather have happen?: Force team-work and a few station jockeys maybe quit Eve; Or force people to separate, and corporations who can't kill station jockeys quit Eve?
=-=-=-=-=
Would your rather make the one jerk who plays the Jack-In-The-Box happy, or the fleet of ships trying to kill that Jack happy?
=-=-=-=-=
Frankly, I'm sick of waiting outside stations for hours for jerks to undock.
I'm even more sick of waiting outside the station for jerks to undock, only to see them redock as soon as I almost kill them.
So I waited for hours for no reward?
Blue-Balled!
I thinking about trying out another game that actually rewards me for my efforts, instead of rewarding the guy who goes AFK for 2 hours, then comes back undocks.. gets shot.. redocks and goes AFK again for 2 hours.
Why play Eve if your not PLAYING Eve?
I'm really about to quit. I'm one person, but am I alone? Am I the only person in Eve who hates station jockeys? |
Akirashinu
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Posted - 2008.06.12 04:44:00 -
[4]
station jockeys are definately cowards.
lets play this game with some enthusiasm people.
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xxTERMINATORxx
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Posted - 2008.06.12 04:47:00 -
[5]
I agree with Scharfe, there should at least be at least a few minutes delay before redocking. I have seen it time and time again where pirates sit at the station, undock aggress, then deaggress to dock up right before popping. In my eyes thats another form of exploiting the game. Please fix this, i would say if it was changed from a minute to say 3 to 5 minutes then that should solve the problem. If you can't finish a fight in that amount of time then they can redock. I believe alot of players would agree this is a problem and should be addressed. It works both ways so there can't be complaints from either side then as its equal and fair. |
Scharfe Kerneisen
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Posted - 2008.06.12 04:54:00 -
[6]
Changing it would work both ways. Everyone would have to deal with the longer timer if it was longer.
However, right now, the guy who unagresses first gets to dock, while the fleet attacking him has to wait to redock. So he (or she) gets to dock and repair... then start the battle again before the other side can do the same.
It's definately an exploit of the current rules.
=-=-=-=
For the record, someone who doesn't aggress redocking is 'ok' in my book. (I'd prefer it if you couldn't dock while being shot at.)
It's the people who agress then unagress and redock.
They should be commited to a longer fight if they've opened fire.
=-=-=-=
I'm tired of this game blue balling me.
=-=-=-=
Maybe 15 minutes is too long. 5 minutes is a good amount of time.
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Boma Airaken
Yurai-Tenshin Zaibatsu
Celestial Imperative
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Posted - 2008.06.12 05:00:00 -
[7]
Signed 10000000000000000 times.
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Anubis Xian
Reavers
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Posted - 2008.06.12 06:09:00 -
[8]
I agree, 5 mins is good...do it for stargates too.
 Originally by: CCP Oveur
The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal.
I'm the Juggernaut, *****! |
Raven Timoshenko
Flying While Intoxicated
The Threshold
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Posted - 2008.06.12 06:15:00 -
[9]
have to agree too, a longer aggression timer should be allowed, plus maybe also that is someone is Webbed, he cannot dock, or atleast takes longer to dock.
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Vick Asguard
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Posted - 2008.06.12 06:31:00 -
[10]
i would have to agree with him. something needs to be done about this.
fix it ccp so we may all sleep better at night knowing our enemy's cant run when they start a fight  |
Malindra Carver
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Posted - 2008.06.12 06:38:00 -
[11]
Ok, so IÆm still a newb in this world but I agree. 5 minutes seems like a good timer. Or I donÆt know if this is possible with the programming but if you aggress within site of a station you cannot dock at it till you warp out and back in.
ôControl do you have room to dock one shipö
ôDock one ship yes your ship no!! Your engagement is causing massive collateral damage to this station. In fact I think our communications array was just hit Bal.k r..k c..m nà ..u .r. b..k..g up.. àà.Tool !!ö *click* |
Levid
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Posted - 2008.06.12 06:52:00 -
[12]
I agree,but suggest the full 15.If agro count is 15 minutes,then make it the full 15.Only makes sense.
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Siigari Kitawa
The Aduro Protocol
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Posted - 2008.06.12 07:25:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Siigari Kitawa on 12/06/2008 07:24:59
Station benefits:
FREE!!!
Capacitor, shield recharge on you and your drones and refit possibilites.
NOW FOR LOWER PRICES!!!
Repairing your damaged ship.
PRICELESS TO YOU!!!
Laughing that everyone outside has to waste their cap, has damaged HP and is unable to do anything about it without docking as well.
Not. Fair.
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Alex Medvedov
Soliders Of Eve
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.12 13:25:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Scharfe Kerneisen
We're waiting for our aggression timers to end, and before we can redock he undocks again and starts attacking another one of us. We have another corp member join us. We get the Astarte into strucure, and he then his friend shows up. The Atarte's Friend, a Dominix kills one of our ships (Our ECM) and then our FC calls for us all to just break and dock.
Then the Dominix and Astarte kill off the rest of our fleet before we can deagress and dock or warp off.
Why is someone getting shot at allowed to dock at a station? He destroyed one of our ships, he shot another ship, why should he be allowed to dock in such a short time after that? We had a fleet of ships there that could have killed him if we had another minute to do so. Why should he be allowed to dock and repair? And then we couldn't dock, because we had our 1 minute timers.. So he comes out fully repaired and kills another one of us.
I can understand your feelings but its more your epic fail than an exploit. Iam not saying that one min timer mechanics is something brilliant but everybody knows about it and you can use it to your own advantige if you wish. The problem of your fight was that you werent able to bumb the Astarte out of docking range...
Iam not happy with this docking/undocking mechanic at all but prolonging the non-docking limit to 5 mins is changing what? There will be still ships able to tank considerable fleets for 5 mins and than dock.
Prolonging it to 15 mins? Come on sometimes I simply cant be online for 15 mins to let my aggro expire..
Some sort of conslusion: Iam for restricting this docking fights somehow, but doont know why exectly:) But do not try to apply same rules to stargates, I completly disagree with you that fight must end with wictory or death - escape if you are able to...
Besides 15 mins agro timer between jumps would kill roming gangs with ease..
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Astria Tiphareth
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Posted - 2008.06.12 13:53:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Astria Tiphareth on 12/06/2008 13:55:13
Edited by: Astria Tiphareth on 12/06/2008 13:54:18
Originally by: Scharfe Kerneisen
Just stop the guys who start fights from docking up when they should otherwise die.
Absolutely agreed.
Whilst I mildly object to the notion that someone who is attacked and wishes to dock to avoid an overwhelming loss is somehow automatically a 'carebear' (my that term gets used to mean a lot of different things, I remember when it was a pink bear in the stores), I totally agree that someone who attacks deserves everything they get if they bite off more than they can chew.
Edit: I'm not sure the timer is the right way to go with this per se, but in lieu of a better idea, going up to 5 minutes would be a start. Perhaps as an alternative, someone who is web scrammed can't? (no 'scientific' logic there, but it's a theory).
___
My views may not represent those of my corporation or alliance, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties... |
Matrixcvd
Rionnag Alba
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Posted - 2008.06.12 14:02:00 -
[16]
its pretty simple and would be a nice fix, if you are within docking range and you engage a ship you get bumped outside dock range.
as for not managing your aggro, and engaging without bumping first, you need to learn current game mechanics and figure out what is currently possible and not bash the keyboard with what you think should happen.
DOck ranges should be drastically reduced as it is but a simple speed boost to an agressor within dock range wuold do the trick, it would stop all that buisness.
As with aggro at gates, you do have the option of deaggressing a tackler, bumping, all easy to do. the station is a problem when they dig themselves into the geometry like an alabama tick...
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Bahhs Deep
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Posted - 2008.06.12 15:34:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Alex Medvedov
[
Iam not happy with this docking/undocking mechanic at all but prolonging the non-docking limit to 5 mins is changing what? There will be still ships able to tank considerable fleets for 5 mins and than dock.
Prolonging it to 15 mins? Come on sometimes I simply cant be online for 15 mins to let my aggro expire..
...Unless it's a full fledged fleet fight with caps...I seriously doubt it will last 15 minutes. Unless its a ridiculously tanked out commandship or something.
Personally, I feel that the time should be 3 min.
List of People I WILL NOT offer ransoms to.
Inoue Zael,Hawk Pryde,Edward England,Kid Brat,Lord Scourge,Slayerseb, Blind John |
Car Wars
Shinra
Shinra Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.12 16:14:00 -
[18]
lol so you cant out blob and outdamage an astarte with all your friends and now you come whine here? and that is why the docking timer has to change? lmao learn to think in more then f1 f2 f3 f4 f5 please. That astarte pilot had more guts and pvp experience then probably the bunch of you, you guys probably dont have a clue.
To quote you: "If your in a lone ship and you engage a fleet of ship you should be stuck their until that fleet is dead or you are" -> lol typical blobbers who cant win. Someone who dares to engage solo against a fleet needs to be supported by game mechanics, not the other way around.
There are multiple ways of neutrilizing a single astarte on a station...Let it aggress, jam, bring 4 armageddons, bye bye. Please dont go crying on the forums about it.
Further to the point that the station lets him dock, the station doesnt take sides, if you dont want him to dock then go get an outpost. |
Cpt Branko
Surge.
NIght's Dawn
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Posted - 2008.06.12 17:11:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 12/06/2008 17:14:29
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 12/06/2008 17:12:26
If you can't pop a lone astarte with your gang at a station, well, you fail. 
If you don't know how to bump things after they undock and agress, you fail even more.... geez
Furthermore, what stops you from deagressing/docking yourself? You do know you have to stop shooting to deagress, right?
Basically, if someone can go out, avoid getting bumped, gank one of you, and tank your fail blob for 30s after killing him, you didn't deserve the kill.
The ONLY issues are stations with a huge dock ring (many Caldari stations, btw). I assure you, nobody has issues killing undockers out of Tama station where undocking into the wrong crowd, well, you either have a insta and something that doesn't align like a cow, or you just die a horrible death.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
sophisticatedlimabean
Terra Incognita.
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Posted - 2008.06.12 18:05:00 -
[20]
For some ppl fighting on a station at docking range is like sitting at jump range on a gate and fighting as it gives them a option to de-aggro and dock/jump away.
As far as your members getting popped is concerned well thats their fault entirely as a well tanked CS like the Astarte must have been is as slow as hell so if they sat there and got the crap shot out of them then thats their stupidity not the games problem.
Although i do dislike station hugger's my self I see a huge gap in your suggestion for exploiting the mechanics your suggesting so i'l say no but only the the solution not the idea.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
Anaalys Fluuterby
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Posted - 2008.06.12 19:11:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Malindra Carver
Your engagement is causing massive collateral damage to this station. In fact I think our communications array was just hit Bal.k r..k c..m nà ..u .r. b..k..g up.. àà.Tool !!ö *click*
I would LOVE for stations to be able to determine if they have been "hit" by a stray shot. Have their guns engage ships that have fired on them
As for the OP's concern, guess we also just sign a death warrant on any miner that does successfully retake their can from an ore thief  and many other ways this will cause even more issues than it causes. If you can't kill a single ship with your gang, you don't deserve the kill.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Not it isn't, people should be encouraged to get out in low sec space, but never forced to do so.
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Matrixcvd
Rionnag Alba
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Posted - 2008.06.12 19:35:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Basically, if someone can go out, avoid getting bumped, gank one of you, and tank your fail blob for 30s after killing him, you didn't deserve the kill.
you make this sound horribly difficult, and tbh its quite fail use of game mechanics on par with logoffski etc. Not to absolve the OP and his fail squad but dock fighting is like gate fighting on 0.0 to empire gates. Complete lame nonsense. Its very difficult to bump, and the dock radii on gallente and caldari are huge, not to mention most morons get dug into the station geometry.
If you undock to fight you shouldn't be able to redock for at least a minute or when you aggress at 0 to the station get a nice push outside dock range. |
KingOzar
Brute Strength
THORN Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.12 20:01:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Car Wars
Edited by: Car Wars on 12/06/2008 16:17:28
lol so you cant out blob and outdamage an astarte with all your friends and now you come whine here? and that is why the docking timer has to change? lmao learn to think in more then f1 f2 f3 f4 f5 please. That astarte pilot had more guts and pvp experience then probably the bunch of you, you guys probably dont have a clue.
To quote you: "If your in a lone ship and you engage a fleet of ship you should be stuck their until that fleet is dead or you are" -> lol typical blobbers who cant win. Someone who dares to engage solo against a fleet needs to be supported by game mechanics, not the other way around.
There are multiple ways of neutrilizing a single astarte on a station...Let it aggress, jam, bring 4 armageddons, bye bye. Please dont go crying on the forums about it.
Further to the point that the station lets him dock, the station doesnt take sides, if you dont want him to dock then go get an outpost. If you are scared of dieing with your whole fleet to one astarte then dock up and get camped in....
Totally agree with you. Furthermore, your FC probably didn't make the best decisions. This is what we in 0.0 and those of us who lived in low sec like to call station games. Station games may include, but is not limited to, killing cheap cyno ships just so you get a noob kill on your KB, engaging outside of station where the person being engaged probably can just dock right up leaving you going WTF NOOB UNDOCK LIKE A MAN AND DIE TO THE 50 OF US OUT HERE! If your not smart enough to find a way to bump him off of station (I can think of three off the top of my head.) or don't have the DPS to kill him, you don't deserve the kill. Moral of the story, DON'T ENGAGE OUTSIDE OF STATIONS. You ended up letting a command ship and a battleship wipe out your whole fleet, albeit probably wasn't very large, that's beside the point.
Besides, it's a COMMAND SHIP. Probably worth more than your entire fleet put together. You have to work for kills, not post on forums about how the game mechanics have to be changed. There are several times when I have killed people in belts only to have their fleet come in 20 seconds too late. I engaged one man, not the fleet. So why should MY aggression go up and let myself get killed by that fleet? I shouldn't be killed by them. It's their own fault for not doing it right/listening to orders. |
Scharfe Kerneisen
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Posted - 2008.06.12 23:05:00 -
[24]
Bumping is an exploit of it's own.
Eve is designed to be character skill based, not player skill based. Your ability to bump a ship off the station or not is based on so many factors and has nothing to do with character skill other then what ship your flying and whether or not it has an MWD.
There have been many posts here on these forums requesting that bumping be removed from the game or changed at least so that smaller ships have a harder time bumping larger ones. Frankly, I'm inclined to agree with most of those posts about bumping. It's another near-exploit that's not technically an exploit to the game that cheapens Eve. It's a tactic that should not be necessary, and also should be addressed.
We did bump the Astarte many times, but the docking range on the station was huge. There's lots of "Ifs"... If one of our Raven pilots had been online, if we had 10,000 more players in our corp and in the system... If we had a Titan to use, and if we could use the Titan in high sec!
=-=-=-=-=-=
While I began this thread with a true story that happened the day this thread was posted, and the events of the story upset me very, very much. This thread is not about one incident, or one event. I've been in several empire wars and I've dealt with this tactic many, many times.
The enemy chooses stations that have large docking areas, and stations that undock ships in the middle of the station. (Like the Gallente Round, half moon ones.)
People aren't stupid. They're going to use what-ever *****s in the rules they can find and exploit them. It's human nature.
I'm not blaming the Astarte pilot at all for what he did. He used a tactic that was available to him. We were unable to dock, since he deagressed first and docked.. and then undocked and started attacking us before we could dock.
So, what were we to do? All of us dock up and sit inside the station, another long-Eve stale-mate!?
He sits outside, one ship, camping five guys into the station? How's that look? How ******** is that, when the five ships in open space would be able to kill him.... However, it wasn't a fight in open space, now was it?
90%+ of Eve battles take place where? I'd bet big ISK to little ISK that 90% of Eve battles take place around stations or star gates. People don't battle in the vast openess of space in between. Sure, occasionally you catch some guy who wasn't paying attention to local in a belt. Sure, occasionally you probe some guy out at a safe spot. However, the majority of battles take place on the gates... And I'd be a large portion of those battles are ended prematurely (that is, without the destruction of a ship, and definatly without the destruction of an entire force; Be that force one ship or 10), with one ship jumping through a gate to escape or docking up.
=-=-=-=-=-=
There's a ton of PvP gear on the Eve market. Prices are at all-time lows for many items in Eve. Prices are low because demand is low. Demand is low because not enough stuff is getting blown up!
Where's the head to head battles of Eve? Why does every battle have to be decided by whoever can exploit something better then the other side?
=-=-=-=-=-=
I play Eve for the PvP. I've done 0.0 PvP, I've done empire PvP. And for all the beauty of this game.. for all it's promis.. Most of the time I spend waiting for the right numbers just to get the action started. Then once we have the right numbers, we have to trick the enemy into thinking we don't have more numbers then them just for them to come out and play. Then when they do come out and play, and my team of ambushers jump through the gates of the next door system (of which they could have been waiting for HOURS!!!!) and charge in barrelling down on the target(s)! The target(s) say, "Oh &$#@!" deaggress and dock back up.
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Scharfe Kerneisen
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Posted - 2008.06.12 23:11:00 -
[25]
The our options are to set the trap back up, let the target(s) get comfortable again, and then hope that the target(s) dumb enough to fall back into the trap again. we wait for several hours... People log on, people log off... We wait, we wait.. We've got the target "camped into the station" but he's probably AFK watching TV or running missions on his/her alt.
This means our options are to:
1. Wait, wait... Boring, wait!
2. Log off and go play another game. - And let the enemy laugh that he was able to hide in his barrow.
3. Play on our alts. - And let the enemy laugh that he was able to hide in his barrow.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
WHY DO I PLAY EVE!? It's so fricken boring!
Why declare war on anyone, if all the two sides will ever do is maneuver around each other and occasionally engage each other!?
I want PvP! I want satisfaction from my PvP.
For one ship to kill five other ships, he should have to kill all five ships without docking for repairs!
One ship shouldn't be able to kill one ship smaller then him, then dock up and repair. Then kill another ship smaller then him, then dock up and repair.
=-=-=-=
I am tired of Eve Blue Balling Me!
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Scharfe Kerneisen
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Posted - 2008.06.12 23:14:00 -
[26]
You know what, screw it!
The other team wins!
I'm bored with Eve. I'm sick and tired of camping stations, I'm sick and tired of camping gates. Eve is definately not the game for him.
I'm bored with Eve so I will not play it any more.
But did the other side really win? Just cause they used a tactic available to them? Or is CCP winning by causing me to be upset with how boring their game is?
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Lenus Daragio
coracao ardente
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Posted - 2008.06.12 23:19:00 -
[27]
The game mechanics are clear. The problem is, you couldn't kill him in time for him to re dock.
While this is not very honorable, you have to change your strategy to par to his. Frankly putting it, you're fighting on his terms, so you should expect him to have the advantage.
- Get more DPS
- Dont' sit on a station if you know someone's gonna come out shooting
- Complain in the forums
Seeing as how you definitely have #3 down, and it looks like you learned #2, all you need is more DPS and you'll be fine.
Oh, and yes, undocking and re-docking isn't very fun for fights, I agree with that, but it can't be an exploit. Sorry.
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Lenus Daragio
coracao ardente
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Posted - 2008.06.12 23:23:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Scharfe Kerneisen
Edited by: Scharfe Kerneisen on 12/06/2008 23:17:27
I am so sick and tired of this game blue balling me.
Where's the massive fleet battles? Why aren't ships forced to fight to the end?
If two fleets meet, they should be forced to fight to the end!
Either destroy all five ships in one go, or die trying!
Dude, get out in 0.0 and PvP. That's where the real PvP Fighting is.
By the way, you are a huge whiner.
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Scharfe Kerneisen
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Posted - 2008.06.12 23:26:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Lenus Daragio
The game mechanics are clear. The problem is, you couldn't kill him in time for him to re dock.
While this is not very honorable, you have to change your strategy to par to his. Frankly putting it, you're fighting on his terms, so you should expect him to have the advantage.
- Get more DPS
- Dont' sit on a station if you know someone's gonna come out shooting
- Complain in the forums
Seeing as how you definitely have #3 down, and it looks like you learned #2, all you need is more DPS and you'll be fine.
Oh, and yes, undocking and re-docking isn't very fun for fights, I agree with that, but it can't be an exploit. Sorry.
The corp members with the DPS happened to not be online at the time. We had to go with what we had, and we WOULD HAVE KILLED THE ASTARTE if he hadn't docked three times during the battle, and then later his buddy showed up.
Look, the Astarte's a strong ship, no doubt, and the player flying it has skills, no doubt. He's one ship facing five, and we had him into structure more then once. We had enough damage to kill him, if he wasn't allowed to dock!
|
Anubis Xian
Reavers
|
Posted - 2008.06.12 23:29:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Lenus Daragio
Originally by: Scharfe Kerneisen
Edited by: Scharfe Kerneisen on 12/06/2008 23:17:27
I am so sick and tired of this game blue balling me.
Where's the massive fleet battles? Why aren't ships forced to fight to the end?
If two fleets meet, they should be forced to fight to the end!
Either destroy all five ships in one go, or die trying!
Dude, get out in 0.0 and PvP. That's where the real PvP Fighting is.
By the way, you are a huge whiner.
That is where the real blobbing is, yes, not much real pvp out there though. |
Scharfe Kerneisen
|
Posted - 2008.06.12 23:38:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Lenus Daragio
Dude, get out in 0.0 and PvP. That's where the real PvP Fighting is.
By the way, you are a huge whiner.
Dude, I've been to 0.0. Here's how 0.0 PvP works.
1. Gate Camp:
You setup a bubble, and you sit on the gate and you wait for stupid fools to jump through in their shuttles, rookie ships, occasionally a Nano-Fitted Vexor. Once in a blue moon a fleet might come along, with their scout. The fleet will jump the scout in, you kill it.. and the fleet turns around and goes the other way... or if your lucky, they jump in and attack you. Usually, of course if a fleet does jump in to attack you, it's because the believe they can take you... Most of the time both sides know how the battle will go before the battle even happens, so you either leave the gate and let them through or you attack them when they jump in if you think you can take them.
In summery, you wait around and you kill worthless ships. Occasionaly you get lucky and kill an Amarr Covert Ops Ship Belonging to BRUCE that's carrying a Rorqual BPO and then you celebrate. But most of the time you spend waiting.
2. Roaming Gangs:
You form up a fleet, usually something fast like cruisers, HACs, Interceptors, maybe a command ship. You head out with a covert ops scout or two or recon pilots in front of you. The you spend hours jumping through gates, letting the covert ops and recon pilots look for targets. Occasionally you get lucky and you find some poor hapless fool ratting who wasn't paying attention to local, or maybe a miner. Then your 10 man fleet jumps this poor battleship/maybe battle cruiser/maybe hulk and the 10 of you blast the hell out of it. Wow, awesome fight! And then you move on to looking for more targets, or you head back to your base because you've just spent four hours running around 0.0 to kill a battleship.
3. POS Warefare
You show up with a massive fleet of ships. Dreads, Carriers, the usual affair. You proceed to pound on that POS until it goes into reinforced. This can take hours, depending on how large your fleet is and how many dreads you can field. Then you have to wait a day or more while the POS comes out of re-inforced mode. Then you go back, you setup your gate camps again, and your battleships and capital ships pound the POS to death. Usually the opposing fleet doesn't show up, but occasionally they do.. Then you get a decent battle... But, not often. Usually the Opposing team can't muster a large enough fleet to defend their POS so they don't bother trying.
=-=-=-=-=
Of course there's variations on the themes. You could roam a bit, and then camp a guy into a station! That's always good! Oh wait, that's just like empire PvP, isn't it?
Oh, and you can occasionally catch some guy who's decided to run scan-sites in one of your systems. He thinks he's smart cause he cloaks up when people enter the system, and since it's at a site that needs to be probed out he figures he's safe. Of course, then you probe him out and prove him wrong. That can be fun...
...Still, most of the time spent in Eve is waiting for those little fun movements.
So, yeah.. maybe I should "Go out to 0.0" and be bored there instead of being bored in empire. A change of security status makes all the difference!.. NOT! |
Scharfe Kerneisen
|
Posted - 2008.06.12 23:48:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Scharfe Kerneisen on 12/06/2008 23:51:18
Edited by: Scharfe Kerneisen on 12/06/2008 23:49:50
0.0 PvPing...
------------------
2008.04.09 06:50
Victim: Yokan Daifuku
Alliance: Brutally Clever Empire
Corp: The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
Destroyed: Anathema
System: F7C-H0
Security: 0.0
Damage Taken: 1562
Involved parties:
Name: Ammath
Security: 2.2
Alliance: R-I-P
Corp: Mentis Fidelis
Ship: Absolution
Weapon: Absolution
Damage Done: 851
Name: kelpster
Security: 4.1
Alliance: R-I-P
Corp: Mentis Fidelis
Ship: Crow
Weapon: Caldari Navy Piranha Light Missile
Damage Done: 236
Name: iwill killyou
Security: -0.2
Alliance: R-I-P
Corp: Rising Star Empire
Ship: Sabre
Weapon: Sabre
Damage Done: 210
Name: Stardrifter1979 (laid the final blow)
Security: 0
Alliance: R-I-P
Corp: Rising Star Empire
Ship: Megathron
Weapon: Hammerhead II
Damage Done: 151
Name: Margot Macabre
Security: -1.8
Alliance: R-I-P
Corp: Mentis Fidelis
Ship: Broadsword
Weapon: 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II
Damage Done: 114
Name: Dirty99s
Security: 1.1
Alliance: R-I-P
Corp: Hounds Of War
Ship: Drake
Weapon: Heavy Missile Launcher II
Damage Done: 0
Destroyed items:
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters
Warp Core Stabilizer I
Warp Core Stabilizer I
Dropped items:
Small Hull Repairer I
Small Armor Repairer I
Rorqual Blueprint (Cargo)
------------
What does 0.0 PvPing have to do with the aggression docking timer being too short?
|
Lenus Daragio
coracao ardente
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Posted - 2008.06.12 23:54:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Lenus Daragio on 12/06/2008 23:55:13
Don't post killmails.
Two, 0.0 PvP is awesome, but there is a learning curve. You can't expect to just go do something and be awesome at it.
I love gate camps... not cuz I participate in them, but because it gives you so many juicy targets!
And by the way, there is much more to roaming gangs than you let on.
The point is to go where you know people will fight back, not to just aimlessly wander in 0.0
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Scharfe Kerneisen
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Posted - 2008.06.13 01:41:00 -
[34]
Not everyone has the numbers to go into 0.0
Not everyone wants to live under the thumb of alliances.
Some people WANT TO ENJOY EMPIRE PVP.
The thing is, we can't. Not the way it is now.
There's not enough 0.0 space to go around.
Finding targets in 0.0 isn't as easy as you claim it is. I have been there. I've done it. I got sick of 0.0 and moved to empire cause 0.0 warfare is all about POSes if your going to have any fleet battles. I got sick of alliance members bickering over where they're POSes will go, and such.
Look, you act all smug like you have all the answers, but you don't. If your having so much fun in 0.0 warfare, what do you care about station jockeys in empire?
Why should it take 20 ships to kill one? Why can't five kill one? Why can't you lock a guy into a 1v1 on a station? Why should a guy be allowed to dock in the middle of a fight? HE'S BEING SHOT AT! WHY IS HE ALLOWED TO DOCK!? HE SHOT PEOPLE! WHY WOULD HE BE ALLOWED TO DOCK?
[Caps for Bold, not for shout.] |
Nick119
Interstellar Mining and Research
|
Posted - 2008.06.13 06:28:00 -
[35]
Areed dock timer should last the whole aggression timer.
~Originally by: CCP Prism X~
Holy crap, I gave away real information! |
statanspawn
Infected.
|
Posted - 2008.06.13 10:38:00 -
[36]
stop spamming your own thread, and can i has your stuffs?
__________________________
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Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
|
Posted - 2008.06.13 10:49:00 -
[37]
Docking games are certainly broken, have been for 5 years, it's about time they get fixed as fighting normally occurs around stations and other stellar objects and should be incouraged not made into a laughable timesink.
Randomness to the undocking and possibly even station and gategun involvement in prolonged camping of the station or gate. A system where they send the campers ample warning that they need to dispers or be fired upon is one way to go to encourage people taking shots and chances not playing the mechanics for no fun down and predictable outcome which is time wasted and will to PvP removed.
Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav!
Also Known As |
Straight Chillen
Solar Wind
Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service
|
Posted - 2008.06.13 15:10:00 -
[38]
i doubt anything will be done about this, for the same reason that loggonski/logoffski isnt considered an exploit.
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Joe Starbreaker
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Posted - 2008.06.13 16:29:00 -
[39]
The system isn't broken. You need to learn how to fight better. That includes using your brain. Bait the enemy, tackle him, then bring your blob. Don't cry to CCP to save you because your enemy docked and you were too dense to dock or warp away!
------------------------------------------------
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Zirconium Blade
Ass Pounding Space Monkeys
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Posted - 2008.06.13 16:42:00 -
[40]
Try learning game mechanics instead of complaining about them.
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Draygo Korvan
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.13 17:03:00 -
[41]
Dear op, this is a learning experience for you and your corp.
After a ship de-agresses they have 30 seconds where they cannot do anything 'aggressive' but sit there and tank. When you see your target has stopped shooting, perhaps you should align your fleet to a stellar object, so if you fail to finish him off before he docks, you can warp your group of ships off. This way he cant repair, undock target and kill one of your mates.
Also, it is impossible for a pilot, to dock, repair, undock, and target a ship before it can warp off assuming that the person warping off isn't stupid and trying to warp through the station constantly bumping it or is in a ship that just takes forever to align like a frieghter.
30 seconds is a lot of time to kill a subcapital ship, especially if you can break his tank. Fleet vs solo pilot in particular you should be able to ewar (ECM) the solo pilot so he is both ineffective in DPS, and make is tank fail sooner rather than later (neuts in particular).
You took a risk, you were not prepared for the consequences when you should have gotten out of there before he undocked again. Instead you come to the forums whining that you couldnt warp away in time, where there was no way someone can dock and undock before even a battleship can align and warp off. And if you had battleships and they were fitted competently they should be able to last longer than 30 seconds against an astarte letting them deagress and dock up before the astarte can kill them.
--
|
Zirconium Blade
Ass Pounding Space Monkeys
|
Posted - 2008.06.13 18:21:00 -
[42]
My previous post is like the tl;dr prequel to Draygo's |
Scharfe Kerneisen
|
Posted - 2008.06.14 03:14:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Straight Chillen
i doubt anything will be done about this, for the same reason that loggonski/logoffski isnt considered an exploit.
CCP Can't control when people log off or log on, but they can control how long and under what cercumstances someone can dock.
It used to be an exploit that you could log-off and your ship would warp out of a warp disruptor or warp disruptor bubble. It was part of the rules of the game back then, you get warp scrammed and you just log off! CCP fixed that, now if you ware warp scrambled and you log off your ship stays put.
This is similar to that. People are using something that is part of the games code to escape combat that they would otherwise lose.
Originally by: Joe Starbreaker
The system isn't broken. You need to learn how to fight better. That includes using your brain. Bait the enemy, tackle him, then bring your blob. Don't cry to CCP to save you because your enemy docked and you were too dense to dock or warp away!
First of all, there was a 'small' blob already. If you weren't reading there were five ships online. Secondly, how is it fair that you need 20 people to be logged online to kill one ship? It is very difficult to get more then 40 people into a corporation, then again get more then five people online at any given time. Big alliances can get big blobs, but why should they need 20 ships to kill one?
What if it was a 1v1 outside a station? My ship verses his, and I get him into strucuture.. Oh, he just docks up and repairs, gets a new capacitor, and then undocks and starts attacking me. I'm supposed to now do the same?
What if I was using neutralizers on him (as the case was [though not spoke about] with the Astarte) I'm out of cap because my neutralizers drained my cap. He was out of cap because my neutralizers drained his cap. Now he docks, and when he undocks with a full cap, my cap is empty and he's able to rip through my armor tank because I can't repair because I have no cap. I drained his cap, his cap should have been dead, it's not fair that he docks and gets a new cap. Then his reppers work, his ECM works, and oh he's able to fire his guns again. So what's the point in neutralizing his cap?
What's the point in fighting at all, if all the guy has to do is dock to restart the battle for him, and you don't get a fresh start when he docks, cause you have to wait until your aggression timer is gone before you can dock and by then he's undocking.
=-=-=-=
Right now two nearly-equally matched ships fighting out side a station with-in docking range in theory could never kill each other. The only way one could kill the other is with a blob.
Actually no.. One ship that slightly is better then the other couldn't kill the other, because he's only marginally better. So, the one that's marginally worse docks up. The battle couldn't be finished!
=-=--=-=
This isn't like a log-on trap at all. This is more like logging-off to escape battle. CCP fixed it so people couldn't log off to escape battle, (and people cried "oh but what if I lose connection", but I think most agree it's better this way) now CCP needs to fix it so they can't dock or jump through gates to escape battle.
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Doug LeSaurus
|
Posted - 2008.06.14 14:45:00 -
[44]
I agree with scharfe on the fact that station jockey should be an exploit, and there should be a longer timer for docking, but only if a player is shooting back. Not just undocking, getting shot at and then not returning fire to avoid getting into a bad situation and then redocking. I mean If I was at war with someone and then went to Jita to buy a faction BS with a full faction fit for doing missions or ratting in 0.0 space and undocked with said ship, then getting it blown up because they were camping the station.
Just my thoughts,
Doug
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Razoran
|
Posted - 2008.06.14 16:36:00 -
[45]
I completely agree with the OP.Its like a hospital allowing someone in the middle of a gunfight to run inside and get patched up and then run out again guns blazing .Its just plain stupid. and frankly, having to bump someone in order to prevent them from taking unfair advantage of a situation is also stupid. Why should i have to ram my ship into someone to keep him from becoming dammed near invincible, at least until his isk runs out?
Straight up fights are rare enough in eve as it is, mostly its a race to pop someone before they can disappear. This just increases the problem by giving people a safe haven to run to whenever they want, without even the risks that have to be faced by ppl warping away from a fight. It can easly be fixed by implementing a longer timer before redocking is allowed for those who have returned fire.
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Galan Amarias
The Drekla Consortium
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Posted - 2008.06.15 05:20:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Scharfe Kerneisen
Bumping is an exploit of it's own.
I was initially sypathetic to your cause. It's possible that 1 minute isn't enough from agression to gate/station access.
Then you go and rant through some of this utter fail? Bumping an exploit?! If bumping weren't an intended game mechanic they would have made ships uncolidable when they patched cans to be uncolidable. The only time bumping has been an exploit was with POS bowling. They fixed that.
Originally by: Scharfe Kerneisen
Eve is designed to be character skill based, not player skill based. Your ability to bump a ship off the station or not is based on so many factors and has nothing to do with character skill other then what ship your flying and whether or not it has an MWD.
What?! Seriously, you honestly believe SP should always triumph? That player skill has no place in this game? Then why isn't there a skill "Ideal ship fitting" or "Market manipulation"
This game is solid player skill with options on how that skill will be employed offered by increased SP.
Originally by: Scharfe Kerneisen
I play Eve for the PvP. I've done 0.0 PvP, I've done empire PvP. And for all the beauty of this game.. for all it's promis.. Most of the time I spend waiting for the right numbers just to get the action started. Then once we have the right numbers, we have to trick the enemy into thinking we don't have more numbers then them just for them to come out and play. Then when they do come out and play, and my team of ambushers jump through the gates of the next door system (of which they could have been waiting for HOURS!!!!) and charge in barrelling down on the target(s)! The target(s) say, "Oh &$#@!" deaggress and dock back up.
This is the part that totaly set me against your <explative deleted>. You freely admit that you will not engage unless the numbers favor you BUT you complain when your enemies do the same?!
You think you should be able to play games with the stargates, but heaven forbid your oponents pay attention to local or disengage a fight they know they will lose.
Then! Then! when you finally get an oponent willing to engage you at 5 to 1 odds when you have ECM support! You let him kill two of you trying to get the DPS to ruin him.
Hey newsflash if 5 of you couldn't kill him, 4 sure as crap can't, but you stick arround, don't even try to bait him to a belt, and he kills another of you, then calls 1 friend and 2v3 they clean your clocks..
So having failed utterly at in game combat you come here to suggest a rules change because you can't be bothered to station camp with high dps ships?
Fail, fail, fail, fail, fail and fail.
Like I said, had you kept the story to, "It's too easy to redock after fighting." I would have been likely to support you. Try upping your game before you whine for rules to be changed. Hell try fighting at slightly outnumbered odds and see what you can come up with.. It might be fun.
-Galan
The answer to empire ganking |
Caleese
New Eden Research And Design School
|
Posted - 2008.06.15 07:45:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Scharfe Kerneisen
Eve is designed to be character skill based, not player skill based.
Ya know, up until you spouted that nonsense I was happy to back you up in this thread. Yes playing the undock game is lame, and yes the aggression timer should be lengthened when it comes to docking (not gates) but saying that the game is about skill points and not player skill is quite possibly the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.
One of the best parts about this game is watching a bunch of noobs kick the ass of anyone foolish enough to believe that skill points mean more than actual skill. Seriously, I suggest you stop posting now before you make an even bigger fool of yourself.
-----------------
Think of someone you consider of average intelligence... now realise this. Half the worlds population is dumber than that person.
How does the world survive such stupidity? |
Hun Jakuza
Naughty By Nature
|
Posted - 2008.06.15 11:41:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Hun Jakuza on 15/06/2008 11:43:58
Edited by: Hun Jakuza on 15/06/2008 11:42:40
Signed 10000 times.
Who was that idiot who enabled 1 min deagress and redock ?
This game mechanic is a stupidity.
Why ?
Because the agressor get 15 min global criminal in low and high sec, the sentry shoot him but the gate and station enabled him redock or jump across to gate . That is a joke. This game mechanic = nonsense, because this pilot not get any penalty while he shoot at friendly station.
An option for redock.
15 minute undocking option or 10 million penalty if he trying to dock while he have 15min global criminal flag.
Some dockfighter within 1 day playing deagress and redock over 100 times.
If they are lost too mutch money, maybe they should be stop this unskilled combat actions.
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Maverick Ice
|
Posted - 2008.06.15 12:55:00 -
[49]
Personally, if someone at the station takes an aggressive action (i.e. damages someone, or assists someone that is aggressed), the station should repulse the ship away from the station to the tune of at least 5000m for the duration of their "can't dock" timer. That'd give people a shot at the station jockey that likes to shoot, de-aggress and redock, all while sitting within docking range.
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Sgt Blade
Save Yourself Inc.
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Posted - 2008.06.15 14:09:00 -
[50]
In all honesty, my 1 Astarte vs all you guys would have died so easily if you only used some tactics.... it is NOT an exploit in docking when i need to, because guess what most of the time i had to dock was when i was perma-jammed by a falcon.
Some Main Points.
 Crow does not orbit me with mwd on at within web range
Falcon and Hound does not stay within ownage range of my guns
Having a Domi, Myrm and Proph unable to pretty much gank an astarte means you need more damage
With THOSE odds its was all in YOUR favour, you had the option to dock and redock and to get at RANGE for your specialised ships but instead let me kill you all one by one
The whole dock and redock argument is completely void because everyone in the game has the option to do so. its the same with gates. if you have a target within jump range, you get 1 ship to shoot it while everyone else is ready to jump through with it. its just your general way of playing eve. change anything with the station dock/undock aggro timers and it will have to get changed with gates aswell
Hypnotic Pelvic Thrusting Level 5 |
Sgt Blade
Save Yourself Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.06.15 14:17:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Akirashinu
station jockeys are definately cowards.
lets play this game with some enthusiasm people.
how can i be a coward if i was outnumbered 5 v 1
Hypnotic Pelvic Thrusting Level 5 |
Sgt Blade
Save Yourself Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.06.15 14:18:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Anubis Xian
I agree, 5 mins is good...do it for stargates too.
that would be bad....assuming your running down the low sec pipe with a interceptor jsut getting past it all and not wanting a fight, say a pirate shoots you once..... your willing to sit in system for 5 minutes?
Hypnotic Pelvic Thrusting Level 5 |
Sgt Blade
Save Yourself Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.06.15 14:31:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Scharfe Kerneisen
Edited by: Scharfe Kerneisen on 14/06/2008 03:21:51
What if I was using neutralizers on him (as the case was [though not spoke about] with the Astarte) I'm out of cap because my neutralizers drained my cap. He was out of cap because my neutralizers drained his cap. Now he docks, and when he undocks with a full cap, my cap is empty and he's able to rip through my armor tank because I can't repair because I have no cap. I drained his cap, his cap should have been dead, it's not fair that he docks and gets a new cap. Then his reppers work, his ECM works, and oh he's able to fire his guns again. So what's the point in neutralizing his cap?
may i note that i was NEVER out of cap.... if you don't know why think about it 
and do you know why i am able to shoot again after undock? because the falcon isnt able to jam me that fast so i get a few shots out.
and by the way you took me to structure ONCE. and guess what. i was deeply amazed that i was still alive after that battle because i hull tanked your weak damage for at least a minute
Hypnotic Pelvic Thrusting Level 5 |
Grammer
The Blue Dagger Mercenery Agency
|
Posted - 2008.06.15 15:00:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Grammer on 15/06/2008 15:05:50
Edited by: Grammer on 15/06/2008 15:01:36
Originally by: Scharfe Kerneisen
Bumping is an exploit of it's own.
Eve is designed to be character skill based, not player skill based. Your ability to bump a ship off the station or not is based on so many factors and has nothing to do with character skill other then what ship your flying and whether or not it has an MWD.
Fail, if EVE was all character base and not player base, you would then be on the forums complaining that there would a small chance of beating a higher sp character. EVE is more player experience based. Which by looking at the battle you guys have very little.
Example 1: Your falcon has 5 orge II coming after and he sits there still jamming me, he could have warped off and come back 50km+ away and jam us.
Example 2: Your Prophecy setup... You fiting an autocannon to it.It's an Amarr ship, not a mimmy ship.
Link to kills for your viewing pleasure
Originally by: Scharfe Kerneisen
The enemy chooses stations that have large docking areas, and stations that undock ships in the middle of the station. (Like the Gallente Round, half moon ones.)
Correct me if I am wrong but you guys decided to base out of that station.
Now to my knowledge every time i have undocked you guys have always been humping the station. And yesterday we killed one of your scorp pilot. You guys had a claymore and mega which aggressed me , but after we killed the scorp they deaggressed and docked.
So come back to the forum and whine after your corperation, stop using the exact same tactics.
A perscription for killing ship.
- Get more experience
- Get better ship fits!!!
- If you still can't kill1(2) people, go mine in empire!
Any finally
Originally by: Scharfe Kerneisen
Right now CCP give me three options:
1. Keep losing to station jockey.
2. Become a cowardly station jockey.
3. Quit Eve.
Can i have your stuff
|
oilio
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.06.15 15:43:00 -
[55]
Signed.
If someone fires a shot, they should have to wait longer before they can redock. Nasty station-hugging cowards should be nerfed into the floor.
They should be allowed to fight, or allowed to dock, but not allowed to start trouble and then dock after a ridiculously short time.
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Niram Tar
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.06.15 15:54:00 -
[56]
So you had a single autocannon, 2 launchers and 3 light blasters to go with 2 sets of damage drones and you couldn't take out a command ship?!?!
Learn to play and if you don't, can i have your stuff?
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Grammer
The Blue Dagger Mercenery Agency
|
Posted - 2008.06.15 15:56:00 -
[57]
Originally by: oilio
Signed.
If someone fires a shot, they should have to wait longer before they can redock. Nasty station-hugging cowards should be nerfed into the floor.
They should be allowed to fight, or allowed to dock, but not allowed to start trouble and then dock after a ridiculously short time.
Not posting with your main 4tl
|
Jayna Keria
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.06.15 16:15:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Scharfe Kerneisen
Why should a guy be allowed to dock in the middle of a fight? HE'S BEING SHOT AT! WHY IS HE ALLOWED TO DOCK!? HE SHOT PEOPLE! WHY WOULD HE BE ALLOWED TO DOCK?
[Caps for Bold, not for shout.]
...you can too 
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Sgt Blade
Save Yourself Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.06.15 16:21:00 -
[59]
Originally by: oilio
Signed.
If someone fires a shot, they should have to wait longer before they can redock. Nasty station-hugging cowards should be nerfed into the floor.
They should be allowed to fight, or allowed to dock, but not allowed to start trouble and then dock after a ridiculously short time.
30 seconds is not ridiculously short amount of time, its enough imho
Hypnotic Pelvic Thrusting Level 5 |
oilio
State War Academy
|
Posted - 2008.06.15 16:48:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Grammer
Originally by: oilio
Signed.
If someone fires a shot, they should have to wait longer before they can redock. Nasty station-hugging cowards should be nerfed into the floor.
They should be allowed to fight, or allowed to dock, but not allowed to start trouble and then dock after a ridiculously short time.
Not posting with your main 4tl
Moron. The issue is about docking times. If I posted with a different character, would it make any difference to the argument?
|
Car Wars
Shinra
Shinra Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.15 16:50:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Sgt Blade
man with pvp experience killing the OP and his noOb friends
doesnt get any nicer then this when your victims come screaming and whining on the forums It is the step up from hate mails
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Grammer
The Blue Dagger Mercenery Agency
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Posted - 2008.06.15 17:17:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Car Wars
Originally by: Sgt Blade
man with pvp experience killing the OP and his noOb friends
doesnt get any nicer then this when your victims come screaming and whining on the forums It is the step up from hate mails
QFT
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Galan Amarias
The Drekla Consortium
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Posted - 2008.06.15 17:23:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Sgt Blade
Originally by: Akirashinu
station jockeys are definately cowards.
lets play this game with some enthusiasm people.
how can i be a coward if i was outnumbered 5 v 1
For the remainder of the day, you sir, are my hero. Well fought.
-Galan
The answer to empire ganking |
KingOzar
Brute Strength
THORN Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.15 20:31:00 -
[64]
Edited by: KingOzar on 15/06/2008 20:31:04
So what happens when they do implement this, and you find yourself in the need to dock within the time limit but you loose a ship to it? Will you come back to the forums and say 'OMG CCP YOU F*CKED UP AGAIN!' Stop moaning about your lacks of DPS. Stop fighting outside of stations if you don't like it. It's game mechanics. Work around them. This doesn't just affect 'station huggers' it affects everyone, most in the worst ways. I.e. outposts, think about it why don't you.
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PtolemaiosPlato Solomon
DEFCON.
Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.16 00:03:00 -
[65]
Well, you might not like what I say, but all I see here is that your enemies just used a smart strategy. Why not to dock and repair, and continue the fight? Each of you could do the same, in a similar but opposite situation.
I don't think that this is an exploit. But I understand that this angers you. I would be frustrated, too.
Just remember that strategy, and adapt it accordingly.
Greetings, thanks for reading,
Sven
Location: 18¦ 0'33.80"N - 76¦46'52.66"W - Elevation 344 ft
Your sig lacks visible EVE-related content. Email us at [email protected] for more information -HornFrog |
KingOzar
Brute Strength
THORN Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.16 04:53:00 -
[66]
Edited by: KingOzar on 16/06/2008 04:53:11
Originally by: PtolemaiosPlato Solomon
Well, you might not like what I say, but all I see here is that your enemies just used a smart strategy. Why not to dock and repair, and continue the fight? Each of you could do the same, in a similar but opposite situation.
I don't think that this is an exploit. But I understand that this angers you. I would be frustrated, too.
Just remember that strategy, and adapt it accordingly.
Good point, why didn't they re-dock if they knew that guy was doing it too?
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Hun Jakuza
Naughty By Nature
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Posted - 2008.06.17 09:31:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Hun Jakuza on 17/06/2008 09:33:31
Originally by: PtolemaiosPlato Solomon
Well, you might not like what I say, but all I see here is that your enemies just used a smart strategy. Why not to dock and repair, and continue the fight? Each of you could do the same, in a similar but opposite situation.
I don't think that this is an exploit. But I understand that this angers you. I would be frustrated, too.
Just remember that strategy, and adapt it accordingly.
Yes, this is not exploit, but this is a stupid thing from the CCP.
Just a question for you.
If someone shoot anyone or something at outside of your home and make a crime, you invite him in your house, while your guns shooting him outside ?
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Jaketh Ivanes
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.06.17 10:39:00 -
[68]
1: If I shoot at someone outside a station, it's ok for him to dock. Otherwise, piracy would just be to easy. So lets not change that.
2: Yes, I agree that station hugging is lame and just as lame as the old stabbed snipers (no way to catch these, so CCP hit stabs hard with the bat). So I think CCP should increase the aggression timer to 1 minute. It will not prevent people from hugging, but they have to survive a lot longer.
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Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
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Posted - 2008.06.17 11:31:00 -
[69]
Hehe, Funny thread.
Sorry OP but you have shown a clear lack of understanding of PVP at stations under current mechanics, which actually work pretty well.
Allowing a solo ship to engage, kill an enemy and escape is more important than allowing a blob to kill a solo ship that engages every time. This example shows current mechanics are working pretty well IMHO and you deserved to die for poor PVP skills.
The part I found particularly funny was where you whine about bumping too and suggest that player/piloting skill should not be a factor compared to skillpoints! Utter tosh. What makes the game great is 3 month old players competing and winning at PVP vs 5 year vets (like you maybe) who don't know how to fight under current PVP mechanics.
Coming to whine about docking being an exploit (?! LOL ?!) on the forum (and posting killmails with names in which is not allowed - yet more holes in your knowledge?) just made you look even more silly than your total failure and PVP lesson granted you by that Astarte pilot.
PS - I not the trolling type, but you deserve all the stick you get for this lame attempt to get CCP to help you win fights where you're at a massive advantage already.
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Anubis Xian
Reavers
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Posted - 2008.06.17 12:28:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Sgt Blade
Originally by: Anubis Xian
I agree, 5 mins is good...do it for stargates too.
that would be bad....assuming your running down the low sec pipe with a interceptor jsut getting past it all and not wanting a fight, say a pirate shoots you once..... your willing to sit in system for 5 minutes?
If you aren't shooting at someone, why would you have a timer?
Originally by: CCP Oveur
The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal.
I'm the Juggernaut, *****! |
Anubis Xian
Reavers
|
Posted - 2008.06.17 12:32:00 -
[71]
Regardless of what the OP intended or why he made the topic, he is still right about station jockey fighting being a bad game mechanic.
And it takes no balls to fight if you also exploit bad game design, so 5v1 isn't impressive on the part of the 1.
Originally by: CCP Oveur
The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal.
I'm the Juggernaut, *****! |
Scharfe Kerneisen
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Posted - 2008.06.18 12:03:00 -
[72]
Edited by: Scharfe Kerneisen on 18/06/2008 12:06:41
Originally by: KingOzar
Edited by: KingOzar on 15/06/2008 20:31:04
So what happens when they do implement this, and you find yourself in the need to dock within the time limit but you loose a ship to it? Will you come back to the forums and say 'OMG CCP YOU F*CKED UP AGAIN!' Stop moaning about your lacks of DPS. Stop fighting outside of stations if you don't like it. It's game mechanics. Work around them. This doesn't just affect 'station huggers' it affects everyone, most in the worst ways. I.e. outposts, think about it why don't you.
I'm sick of the game mechanics blue-balling me.
It shouldn't take 20 ships to kill one! Why should you need 20 ships just to deal enough DPS to kill a single ship before it's allowed to redock?
What if it's a 1v1 battle?
Don't fight outside stations? 90% of the battles in Eve happen outside stations because station jockeys use the stations as their life-line! You can't fight them anywhere else, they wont go anywhere else!
I'm sick and tired of people sitting outside a station smack talking, then when you go over to fight them.. you get them to start shooting at you... you bring in the blob... they start to die.. and then the dock up and start smack talking again!
Why, why, why, why, why should it take more ships then one to kill one ship?
I mean, sure sometimes you get in a 1v1 and you manage to kill the ship. I know it happens. Why should a guy be allowed to dock because he suddenly finds himself out numbered? You kick a bee hive you should have to deal with all the bees!
Originally by: Sgt Blade
Originally by: Akirashinu
station jockeys are definately cowards.
lets play this game with some enthusiasm people.
how can i be a coward if i was outnumbered 5 v 1
The post states that if you don't shoot anyone you should be allowed to redock.
If your outnumbered 5 to one, then dock up!
You shouldn't be allowed to open fire, then de-agress just because you realized opening fire was a bad idea. You got into the fight you should be forced to finish it.
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Sgt Blade
Save Yourself Inc.
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Posted - 2008.06.18 13:31:00 -
[73]
i did finish the fight, by not dieing and kill my targets.
and also your complaining that most of the time people don't come off the station for a fight but ill bet you that if you had some war targets 270km out off the station that you would not go and fight them without a blob
so either way your going to have to blob your targets on or off the station
Hypnotic Pelvic Thrusting Level 5 |
DutchGunner
Ray of Matar Assembly
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Posted - 2008.06.18 14:55:00 -
[74]
The 1 minute timer is perfect the way it is. Sure it can be (ab)used against you, but remember there are still plenty of players that are not afraid to pick a fight while being outnumbered.
Say you hunt pirates and you find a station where they are holding up. Do you engage, get a kill and get killed in return because you couldn't kill their 10+ group that undocked, while you are able to tank them (barely) for 1 minute and be able to dock?
PvP is all about strategy. There is no bigger rush and feeling of succes when you engage a larger group and get them to flee and/or die. The 1 minute timer keeps the massive blobbing limited in lowsec. Why would you move around in small gangs if you have to fight to the death when you encounter a bigger gang that starts shooting?
There is a risk to engage at a station and a gate. You get sentry fire, and you never know what comes out of the station/through the gate. The 1 minute timer gives players room to recover should they make a wrong gamble/decision. HOWEVER the player is still unable to do it right away, he has to sit out the 1 minute.
On a different note, undocking fully reppaired means that he used the station repair service, and that ain't cheap to use! Another important lesson is that the moment a player engages you while being outnumbered and outgunned: expect a trap or reinforcements belonging to him!
You did what you could, and unfortunately, it wasn't enough. You did get a nice fight with the rush of almost killing the astarte. PvP in EvE is all about split decisions from the FC. Sometimes they work out, sometimes they don't. Each succes and defeat is a lesson, and defeats usually give you a bigger learning experience then a victory.
"There is always a bigger fish"
One quote that is very relevant in a lot of combat situations. Sometimes you need to cut your losses to keep it to a minimum instead of keep trying to get a kill.
"You win some, you lose some"
Is another one. You tried and this time it didn't work. But because he came out repaired after docking, means he either paid for the repairs or got a 2nd astarte in that station. Either way, you did cost him (some) money.
Just make sure you keep your ecm away from the main fight so it can warp out, and back in and keep jamming. Getting ecm within firing range was another flaw in the fight.
If your target stops shooting, hope that he forgets about his drones (alot of players do that) and kill him anyhow.
With the longer agro timer you will only promote blobbing and take the motivation from ppl to fight in outnumbered situations. Quality will compensate for quite some quantity.
I fought a geddon and drake at a gate, killed the drake and the geddon ran.
I fought in a gang of 6 against 14 ppl at a station. They kept bringing in new ships but we killed almost everything. Even when they deagressed, we killed them before their timer of 1 minute was over. We didn't take a single loss
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Anubis Xian
Reavers
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Posted - 2008.06.18 15:57:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Sgt Blade
i did finish the fight, by not dieing and kill my targets.
You not dying had nothing to do with your ability or their lack of it.
Quote:
and also your complaining that most of the time people don't come off the station for a fight but ill bet you that if you had some war targets 270km out off the station that you would not go and fight them without a blob
Irrelevant to the topic at hand.
Quote:
so either way your going to have to blob your targets on or off the station
Blobs exist for two reasons, the members of the blob are too scared to belong to anything less and the target of the blob demands such a response.
Honestly, if you were as brave as you seem to think, you would have given them a real fight...win or lose. As it stands, you and everyone else that exploits a bad game mechanic, legit or not, are just failures at pvp.
Tell me, would you have engaged that same group 5v1 if you had no place to run?
Originally by: CCP Oveur
The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal.
I'm the Juggernaut, *****! |
Marcus Gideon
|
Posted - 2008.06.18 16:12:00 -
[76]
Waa waa waa...
Everyone here needs a straw, so they can Suck It Up and deal.
I'll admit, it would make sense in a storyline fashion, for the station to refuse admittance to someone who is taking fire. They could possibly allow stray rounds into the docking bay and damage those inside.
But at the same time, wouldn't you expect a proper response if you're charging at the gates to the fort yelling "Open the gates, they're right behind me!"
So I think all this complaining is going to amount to another "fix" that people will whine about later on.
Sure, prevent anyone from ducking back inside the station during a firefight. And while you're at it, prevent anyone from accessing the POS shield in the same instances. Now you can't run under the POS "skirts" and hide from outsiders either. If you are caught in a firefight, then you have no choice other than "kill or be killed".
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Who Flung
Repo Industries
R.E.P.O.
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Posted - 2008.06.18 17:00:00 -
[77]
Edited by: Who Flung on 18/06/2008 17:01:48
.
Your future lies in an oblong box |
Arkios Odymei
Incarnation of Evil
Nocturnal Legion
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Posted - 2008.06.18 17:46:00 -
[78]
Edited by: Arkios Odymei on 18/06/2008 17:50:41
I know its been posted already but... Originally by: Scharfe Kerneisen
Eve is designed to be character skill based, not player skill based.
AHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...... [gasp-gasp].... AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
Oh man, You really really have no clue!
The fact that he engaged you with 5-to-1 odds is ballsy and imo badass on his part.
The fact that you failed to kill a single ship (I dont care what ship, its still just 1) within 1 minute shows that you have no clue how to fit and operate your gang.
The fact that you ALL lost your ships (even with EWAR support on your side) because this single astarte pilot had the brains, balls, PLAYER skill, and knowledge... That's what Eve is all about.
Edit: Oh and if you are sick of the game "blue-balling you" because you cant kill a single ship even when outnumbering it 5 to 1, then maybe you should learn how to actualy fight instead of just BLOB. Either that or just quit already!
Im happy to know that numbers still dont always dictate who wins a fight. Sadly, there are more and more people like you who will keep piling on numbers instead of having a good fight.
------------------------------------------------------------------
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Mr Eagleblade
Cyberpunks
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Posted - 2008.06.18 18:23:00 -
[79]
Yea we should definitive get something like this!
15 minute timer afther you Engage someone. This is if YOU Engage first, then you get should get an Engagement timer As well as a aggression timer. And the Global Criminal Timer should last for 20 minutes, were you cant dock up, or jump out of system. or log out.
Were you cant
- Log out
- Dock
- Use star gates
You still should have Other ways to flee if you survive a battle:
- Flee to your POS.
- Move around like you just don't care.
- cloak.
CCP Suck at listening to what other people say anyway... that's how the run things. This post is just a
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procurement specialist
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Posted - 2008.06.18 18:40:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Marcus Gideon
Waa waa waa...
Everyone here needs a straw, so they can Suck It Up and deal.
I'll admit, it would make sense in a storyline fashion, for the station to refuse admittance to someone who is taking fire. They could possibly allow stray rounds into the docking bay and damage those inside.
But at the same time, wouldn't you expect a proper response if you're charging at the gates to the fort yelling "Open the gates, they're right behind me!"
So I think all this complaining is going to amount to another "fix" that people will whine about later on.
Sure, prevent anyone from ducking back inside the station during a firefight. And while you're at it, prevent anyone from accessing the POS shield in the same instances. Now you can't run under the POS "skirts" and hide from outsiders either. If you are caught in a firefight, then you have no choice other than "kill or be killed".
actually the pos being freindly should be more willing to let you in than a neutral npc station. now take standings into account? nothing more to add really just wanted to say pos shields should not be this way.
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Fuengara II
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Posted - 2008.06.18 19:51:00 -
[81]
When the time comes when we can walk around the station... you'll be able to dock after him.... meet him in the bar and slap him around some, or bounce his head off the toilet door... you know.. usual Friday night stuff.
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Jarvis Hellstrom
The Flying Tigers
Souls of Vengeance
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Posted - 2008.06.18 19:59:00 -
[82]
Originally by: procurement specialist
actually the pos being freindly should be more willing to let you in than a neutral npc station. now take standings into account? nothing more to add really just wanted to say pos shields should not be this way.
Point one - the OP's fleet made some errors. After the first undock at full it should have been obvious that this would just happen again. Time to go.
Point two - while many PvP hounds love to yammer about 'tactics' this particular tactic is abusive. In anything sensible repairs cannot be 'immediate', which makes the entire thing a bit broken. Legal? Sure, it's legal. But it's still broken.
Point three - Station standings should make a big difference to station behaviour. I have 9.something ridiculous standing with Brutor Tribe. Are they going to keep me out if I want to dock regardless of who I'm shooting at or why? Of course not.
Conversely, if I'm down in 0.0 flying out of a Gurista station (where I have barely positive standing and that only due to Diplomacy) they should be less accomodating. And the Amarr? With my standings? They should slam the doors and laugh real hard!
It would, at least, add a more interesting RP element to the game. Kind of cool that.
May God stand between you and harm in all the Empty places you must walk
(Old Egyptian Blessing) |
Guillame Herschel
The Graduates
Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2008.06.18 20:04:00 -
[83]
Better idea: don't fight *******s on stations. It's a losing game every time. If he wants to stay at that station, let him. He's no threat there. When he gets bored and tries to leave, gank his ass back to his clone station.
-- The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then --
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Hatch
Bug-Blatter Beasts of Traal
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Posted - 2008.06.18 20:28:00 -
[84]
this is a blatent demonstration of an inability to think aboug game mechanics. next time, think about the situation and bump his ass off the station. just because you don't like the way the game works, doesn't make it an exploit. think for a change or go back to wow
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Arkios Odymei
Incarnation of Evil
Nocturnal Legion
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Posted - 2008.06.19 02:24:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Mr Eagleblade
(A astarte does 928 whit max skills, and can tank 643 Multi-spectral Damage per second over a Period of 1m and 45 sec. Plenty of time to undock kill a target and dock.) you need to do about 70 000 DMG in 1 minute and 20 sec to bring it down. 1 ship equals 1166 DPS. 2 ships 650 dps 3 ships 350 dps. A cruise usualy does about 150-300 DPS.) So dont come here and sound smart, when you dont got a ****y clue about what your talking about wizeman!
Basically you need a Gang that does 4000 KIN/TERM/EXPLOSIVE/EM DPS to even Brake its tank. if they do that then the ship will be down in 3 minutes and 3sec. And if they do that Amount of dmg then all ships must be able to tank 180 000 Effective dmg.
1: Aparently YOU'VE never fought a CS before as these numbers are totaly wrong. A friend an I in heavy hitting 1000 DPS BSs can take a CS down in 1 maybe 2 minutes. Where the hell are you getting your numbers?
If the ships tank is 643 omni, then he is using all his lows and rigs for tank, and at most this ships DPS will be around 700 and thats including including drone dps. Omni EHP is going to sit around 50k, 66k with HG slaves. So say you want to take him down in 1 monute:
50k EHP divided by 60 seconds = 833 DPS
66k EHP divided by 60 seconds = 1100 DPS
Add this to his Tank to find out how much damage you need to Kill him in 1 minute...
Normal Astarte: 1476 DPS total for 1 minute
Slaved Astarte: 1743 DPS total for 1 minute
Now at 700 DPS, in 1 minute, the Astarte will deal about (700 x 60 =) 42k damage. Tough for a cruiser, but this shouldnt be a problem. See #2 & #3
I say again, I really dont know where the hell you are getting your numbers from lol
2: If you have ECM suport, a good portion of the Astarts DPS is nullified. A single Dedicated jamming ship should have no trouble keeping a Single target near perma-jammed, especialy if you know what ship he is and and what racial jammers to fit. Also, ECM doesnt need to be on top of the fight. Keep it a fair bit off so it wont get "primaried" by the lone astarte.
3: Having 4000 DPS in a 5 man gang isnt too hard, Unless you can not manage bring BSs or CSs. I'll concede this point to you.
4: Assuming you can have him keep agro, If one of your ships starts taking damage have him deagress and dock, while the rest pound on the Astarte. Assuming your ECM ship is doing what they are suposed to, Even a cruiser should be able to survive. Keep cycling them in and out as you do have the numbers advantage.
In conclusion, Worst case scenario is that The gang may not have been able to kill the Astarte, but they sure as hell should have taken NO losses if they knew what they were doing.You also seem to think that CSs are some kind of mythinal ship that is superior to everything else! Guess what... THEY ARENT. They die just like everything else, and too tell you the truth, I would much prefer being in a Battleship than a command ship if I were in a straight up fight. BSs tank harder and do more damage, mate, You are ignorant if you think otherwise.
------------------------------------------------------------------
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Anubis Xian
Reavers
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Posted - 2008.06.19 04:16:00 -
[86]
I think you are too focused on the OP's actual scenario.
Tanking a small gang for 60 seconds or so is not that hard for quite a few ships.
Originally by: CCP Oveur
The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal.
I'm the Juggernaut, *****! |
Galan Amarias
The Drekla Consortium
|
Posted - 2008.06.19 06:08:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Anubis Xian
I think you are too focused on the OP's actual scenario.
Tanking a small gang for 60 seconds or so is not that hard for quite a few ships.
Tanking your average batch of noobs is not "that hard" for several ships. The ones that aren't capitols are all Battleships and command ships, or nanoed and free to manuver.
However add even 1 serious DPS BS and any one (non-capitol) ship against 5 (especially with ECM support) will be lucky to last 30-50 secconds. If only 3 of the 5 are serious DPS BC the defending ship is looking at 1500+dps. If 2 of the 5 are serious BS then you need to tank 2000dps or more.
So while lots of us agree that docing out of a fight is a bit lame, we also agree that fighting on stations is stupid because you have to expect them to dock. Reguardless this level of fail at 5 to 1 odds just paints the op as a whiny noob. Hence the flame.
-Galan
The answer to empire ganking |
Paradoxataur
|
Posted - 2008.06.19 06:14:00 -
[88]
The Mechanics are the way they are.
The most likely solution I see here to any sort of problem is to enforce the dock session timer, that is, not letting one dock, and instantly undock. Scharfe's fleet would have had some time to de-aggress and dock once engaged once more. The problem is that the ship was able to dock, repair, and undock, not that the ship got away, but that it was able to gain an upper-hand by manipulating some mechanics in a way that they were not meant to be.
Just like a star gate, you can't jump out, MWD back to the gate, and jump back unless your session timer is up.
Perhaps the docking session timer should be 60 seconds and that would fix the problem?
As for increasing the aggro timers, that simply doesn't work.
While Eve is a game designed to be played, it also needs to let players decide how they want to play it, and an engagement timer is just plain stupid, and geared towards carebears.
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Thunderbird Anthares
Crimson Star Empire
CORPVS DELICTI
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Posted - 2008.06.19 08:43:00 -
[89]
while i hate when people dock to hide,even if they sometimes have an advantage,to hide....
the day this will happen, i think im going to delete my character and go play chess or solitaire
------------------------------------------------
When you get to the end of your journey,everything that really matters is the journey itself. |
Femaref
Armageddon Day
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Posted - 2008.06.19 10:05:00 -
[90]
Quote:
The most likely solution I see here to any sort of problem is to enforce the dock session timer, that is, not letting one dock, and instantly undock.
Already there, 30 sec session change timer. add another 30 sec if you wanna switch ship.
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Kakita Jalaan
Viriette Commerce and Holding
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Posted - 2008.06.19 10:29:00 -
[91]
I agree with the OP, 1 minute is a ridiculously short delay for somebody to redock who just started a fight. Sure, one can learn to live with it as a game reality, as many did, but it's still a stupid design loophole.
You undock, you shoot versus players, you can't redock for say 5 minutes. I mean, with the logoff rules while under player fire, why aren't the exactly same rules applied to docking when under player fire? At least when you started the fight or actively fought back? Undocking, realizing it was a bad idea and then sitting it out for a minute is alright, but undocking, fighting and then escaping from the fight (not even making an effort to do so) is just lame.
______________
Join the Family |
Stardrifter1979
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Posted - 2008.06.19 11:52:00 -
[92]
By the way that same Astarte and Domi got pawned in about 2min. The astarte only lasted about 32 seconds after he undocked. I lost a hurricane, but it was well worth it. As the insurance was running out and it had no rigs so a perfect suicide ship. But as far as the timers for redocking, once he or anyone else engages it should be a few minutes before you can redock. If you don't engage then you should be able to redock whenever you want. EVE is all about choices and this would make your choices count more towards your actions.
Fight hard, Fight noble
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Scharfe Kerneisen
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Posted - 2008.06.25 05:30:00 -
[93]
Edited by: Scharfe Kerneisen on 25/06/2008 05:30:35
Originally by: Marcus Gideon
Waa waa waa...
Everyone here needs a straw, so they can Suck It Up and deal.
I'll admit, it would make sense in a storyline fashion, for the station to refuse admittance to someone who is taking fire. They could possibly allow stray rounds into the docking bay and damage those inside.
But at the same time, wouldn't you expect a proper response if you're charging at the gates to the fort yelling "Open the gates, they're right behind me!"
I can easily imagine a single guy running towards a castle screaming "OPEN THE GATES! OPEN THE GATES! THEY'RE RIGHT BEHIND ME!"
Then the castle guard says: "I'm sorry but they're too close they might get in behind you. Sucks to be you."
In fact, I've seen medieval era movies where that has happened! Of course in medieval movies they don't have machine guns, missiles, bombs and such.
Story aside, I feel it's a poor game mechanic. The guy undocks and opens fire on a ship, he should be stuck to finish the fight. He shouldn't be able to undock in a battleship, kill a cruiser, and then before the other battleship that was waiting outside can kill him redock and repair.
A cruiser and a battleship can't kill a battlecruiser because the battlecruiser docks and repairs. How is that fair to the cruiser? How is that fair to the battleship isn't allowed to kill a battlecruiser that just undocked and killed his an allied cruiser?
=-=-=-=
A tempest sits outside a station waiting for an enemy to undock. The enemy undocks in a Dominix and opens fire on the Tempest. The tempest returns fire. The Domi figures out that he's not able to kill the tempest, so he unagresses and docks.
Then the Dominix undocks before the Tempest can dock. The tempest has two options now. Warp off and run away, allowing an enemy he would have been able to kill if it wasn't allowed to dock to escape now, since the tempest is only at half strength after the battle but the Domi is not back to full stregnth. Engage the Dominix at half strength and probably die. Wait there and let the Domi shoot him, then dock up himself, in which case the Domi runs away and has once again escaped!
|
Scharfe Kerneisen
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 05:32:00 -
[94]
Edited by: Scharfe Kerneisen on 25/06/2008 05:32:23
If the person who camps the station is going to always lose, since the other side is always going to dock up or escape when you dock up, then you have to always play on the defensive to win.
If both sides play the defensive to win, then neither side ever attacks, so what's the point of having a war?
|
Yolan Wo
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 06:58:00 -
[95]
Looking at the fittings at the killmails of your ships it is painfully obvious that you guys are noobs! That same guy who tanked you would not last 15 seconds against a proper setup gang.
There is nothing wrong with the docking mechanic. The only thing wrong here is your inability to learn and adapt and therefor you want the game to change instead. Stupidity at its best.
Where do you fly btw? I want to better my scores on my pvp-mains alliance kb and noob-fishing would do it 
|
Jeckes
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 09:12:00 -
[96]
/signed.
its obviously stupid as hell and needs to be nerfed.
|
Cedille
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 11:20:00 -
[97]
in this story your are the noob trying to kill someone at docking range Scharfe...
sorry
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Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 11:36:00 -
[98]
The docking game is a sorry broken mess, always have been and always will be it seems since CCP refuse to acknowledge that this sham of a system isn't a feature but an abomination.
Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav!
Also Known As |
Rhanna Khurin
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 11:38:00 -
[99]
Just dont sit outside spacestations trying to blast someone. Go somewhere else in system (safespot maybe) and see what the enemy does maybe using a spy.
Station games have happened before the advent of time as we know it.
|
Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 11:43:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Rhanna Khurin
Just dont sit outside spacestations trying to blast someone. Go somewhere else in system (safespot maybe) and see what the enemy does maybe using a spy.
Station games have happened before the advent of time as we know it.
This means they're not broken? Please, there are few systems where fighting will occur and people not escape, oh wait...
Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav!
Also Known As |
Niram Tar
Republic Military School
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 11:52:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Scharfe Kerneisen
Without war, I have no reason to play Eve.
So what you're saying is you're not just a carebear who got dec'd, you actually suck at a proffesional level.
If your battleship can't kill another battleship before agression countdown you fail, he's gonna want your kill just as much and will not disengage before it's certain he will loose.
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Captain Bringdown
Rage Against the Answering Machine
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 13:01:00 -
[102]
This puts the whole topic into a different perspective doesnt it?
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Scharfe Kerneisen
|
Posted - 2008.06.26 02:37:00 -
[103]
Edited by: Scharfe Kerneisen on 26/06/2008 02:39:58
Originally by: Captain Bringdown
This puts the whole topic into a different perspective doesnt it?
LOL!
Not even all those kills are real!
Someone has to lie about the kills on me. That must really mean something.
Edit:
And one of those prophecy losses which is real, I lost connection and we killed the bunch that killed that ship.
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Scharfe Kerneisen
|
Posted - 2008.06.26 02:55:00 -
[104]
We managed to kill the Astarte, and the guy hasn't logged on Eve longer then it takes to change skills since.
We killed the Astarte! Yea!
"Station Tactics" are still lame and need to be fixed!
|
General StarScream
Empyrean Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.06.26 04:31:00 -
[105]
shorter agress timer is needed, if you fight at gates, stations your lame anyway.
Please resize signature to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Algia Knightstorm
|
Posted - 2008.06.26 10:49:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Scharfe Kerneisen
Edited by: Scharfe Kerneisen on 14/06/2008 03:34:41
Right now CCP give me three options:
1. Keep losing to station jockey.
2. Become a cowardly station jockey.
3. Quit Eve.
4. War dec a PvP Corps
5. Go to lo-sec or 0.0
fixed it for ya.
IN your case though, I think option 3 is by far the best option for everyone in EVE
|
Scharfe Kerneisen
|
Posted - 2008.06.26 17:54:00 -
[107]
Edited by: Scharfe Kerneisen on 26/06/2008 18:02:35
Originally by: Algia Knightstorm
Originally by: Scharfe Kerneisen
Edited by: Scharfe Kerneisen on 14/06/2008 03:34:41
Right now CCP give me three options:
1. Keep losing to station jockey.
2. Become a cowardly station jockey.
3. Quit Eve.
4. War dec a PvP Corps
5. Go to lo-sec or 0.0
fixed it for ya.
IN your case though, I think option 3 is by far the best option for everyone in EVE
The Blue Dagger Mercenary group is supposedly a PvP corp. It's part of the reason we war dec'd em. We thought they'd give us some good fights... Maybe some fights off of a stupid station.
I've been to 0.0.
In 0.0 you roam around hoping to find some stupid ratter who wasn't paying attention to local. Then you gang bang him 10 to 1. You occasionally attack POS towers, but generally the enemy doesn't fight you... Sometimes they show up to defend their towers, but not often enough.
Or you sit on a gate for several hours board out of our mind waiting for shuttles, rookie ships, and the occasional covert ops ship to jump through. Then hope you can lock it and shoot it fast enough to get on the kill mail.
I'm not saying that good battles never happen in Eve. I'm saying that good battles (they need a finish to be a good battle) don't happen enough in Eve.
I've been to 0.0, and these guys were supposedly a PvP corp. So far we've only gotten a fight out of one of them (and his alt).
=-=-=
Edit:
I'm seriously considering it. It's just sad there's no other spaceship themed MMORPG out there right now. Eve has the monopoly on spaceship MMORPGs.
I don't like restrictive 'classes' of other MMORPGs, or I'd be playing them instead. If another MMORPG comes out that has spaceships and is free form in how you can design them and such, I'm all over it.
I paid for Eve though, and I'm waiting for my account time to run out. I'm honestly not sure if I'm going to bother renewing it. This, but not this alone, is a factor.
There's other things about Eve that are really getting on my nerves. However, this thread is about station jockeys/station hangers.
=-=-=-=
So many of you try to act like I'm the only person who feels station jockeys are lame. These guys aren't the story I started this thread with wasn't the first time station jockeys did their station games with me. They've done it in low sec, they've done it in 0.0, and they do it in empire. It doesn't matter where you go. And it's lame where ever it goes.
I'm also not the only person in Eve who thinks it's lame.
Of course the people who exploit the system aren't going to want it changed. Just like the people who used to put a bunch of stabs on their ships so it would take 10 people to scramble them! They didn't want warp-stabs changed. CCP changed that, and look now it doesn't take 10 people to tackle someone! But it still takes 10 people to try to kill one off a station.
You have to have someone small and fast to bump them.
You have to have someone who can tank to take the damage.
And you generally have to have multiple ships with lots of DPS to kill them.
You can't use ECM on them, cause that makes it so they can just dock sooner then they realize they need to.
So ECM is utterly worthless and you need a fleet to kill one person! How does that make sense?
|
Scharfe Kerneisen
|
Posted - 2008.06.26 18:07:00 -
[108]
You'd think everyone who trained for ECM ships (Blackbird, Falcons, etc.) would be upset that their ships are worthless in most battles because they can't use them against an opponent on a station.
And most battles take place on a station because these guys never leave docking range of the station. They just sit right on top of the station, humping it, and trash talking in local. I've seen these guys undock and fly directly to the middle of the station so they can't be bumped anywhere.
If you move, they move to a new station and do the same thing.
It's lame. They don't have the gonads to match you in a fight off the station. Even if you try to fight them on a gate, they'll do the same thing, just jump through the gate and run away to some station in the other system.. or jump, jump, and jump away.
So you can't fight them on stations.
You can't fight them on gates.
They wont fight you in belts.
They wont fight you at planets.
They wont fight you at moons.
So where are you supposed to kill these guys?
|
KingOzar
State Protectorate Academy
|
Posted - 2008.06.26 18:55:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Scharfe Kerneisen
You'd think everyone who trained for ECM ships (Blackbird, Falcons, etc.) would be upset that their ships are worthless in most battles because they can't use them against an opponent on a station.
And most battles take place on a station because these guys never leave docking range of the station. They just sit right on top of the station, humping it, and trash talking in local. I've seen these guys undock and fly directly to the middle of the station so they can't be bumped anywhere.
If you move, they move to a new station and do the same thing.
It's lame. They don't have the gonads to match you in a fight off the station. Even if you try to fight them on a gate, they'll do the same thing, just jump through the gate and run away to some station in the other system.. or jump, jump, and jump away.
So you can't fight them on stations.
You can't fight them on gates.
They wont fight you in belts.
They wont fight you at planets.
They wont fight you at moons.
So where are you supposed to kill these guys?
Bump them off station, it's not that hard. Kill them before they redock, its not that hard.
Stop whining and work around the game mechanics. Or quit and don't pvp. If they hug stations and you don't, then you have more guts. move along. Trash talking idiots do only that. Talk trash. They aren't worth your time.
|
Zirconium Blade
Ass Pounding Space Monkeys
|
Posted - 2008.06.26 19:09:00 -
[110]
The docking game is just that, a game. Either play it or dont. Its not broken.
|
Car Wars
Shinra
Shinra Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.06.26 22:17:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Scharfe Kerneisen
So you can't fight them on stations.
You can't fight them on gates.
They wont fight you in belts.
They wont fight you at planets.
They wont fight you at moons.
So where are you supposed to kill these guys?
Thats right YOU can't fight them. YOU will never kill them unless you get a clue about pvp. Go have some cheese to go with your whine.
|
ChalSto
LOCKDOWN.
|
Posted - 2008.06.27 00:03:00 -
[112]
To the OP:
I think you havent come out of empire to pvp much. Therefore the lack of pvp-experience and the lack of understanding how this game works.
Your opponent simply used the game-mechanics to get the advantage against your
superiour numbers.
EvE is a game of options and decisions. You decided to engage with your tactics
and you lost. Solution: Come up with a better tactic, or a player that can
face him on his pvp-experience-level.
If you dont WANT to learn, then you deserve to die. Simply as that.
Wellcome to EvE
Originally by: Agmar
-----------------------------------------------
"The North is so ghey that even the NPCs fly ravens." |
Stardrifter1979
|
Posted - 2008.06.29 11:09:00 -
[113]
Originally by: ChalSto
To the OP:
I think you havent come out of empire to pvp much. Therefore the lack of pvp-experience and the lack of understanding how this game works.
Your opponent simply used the game-mechanics to get the advantage against your
superiour numbers.
EvE is a game of options and decisions. You decided to engage with your tactics
and you lost. Solution: Come up with a better tactic, or a player that can
face him on his pvp-experience-level.
If you dont WANT to learn, then you deserve to die. Simply as that.
Wellcome to EvE
Its spelt "welcome"
|
Scharfe Kerneisen
|
Posted - 2008.06.29 19:35:00 -
[114]
Originally by: ChalSto
To the OP:
I think you havent come out of empire to pvp much. Therefore the lack of pvp-experience and the lack of understanding how this game works.
Your opponent simply used the game-mechanics to get the advantage against your
superiour numbers.
EvE is a game of options and decisions. You decided to engage with your tactics
and you lost. Solution: Come up with a better tactic, or a player that can
face him on his pvp-experience-level.
If you dont WANT to learn, then you deserve to die. Simply as that.
Wellcome to EvE
You're trying to say that people don't do 'station tactics' in 0.0 or low-sec?
If your trying to say that, then it's obvious to me that you've never been to low-sec or 0.0. |
Galan Amarias
Amarr
The Drekla Consortium
|
Posted - 2008.06.30 06:27:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Scharfe Kerneisen
You're trying to say that people don't do 'station tactics' in 0.0 or low-sec?
If your trying to say that, then it's obvious to me that you've never been to low-sec or 0.0.
You sir are made of fail.
You had a gang of five, with ECM, and one guy has the balls to engage you 1v5. He didn't whine about blobbing, or ECM, he wasn't on that idiotic nerf the falcon thread. He went 1v5 and wasted two of you solo because you had junk setups with no dps.
More over you contunually whine about being "blue balled" as if you are somehow entitled to gratificafion you were not able to achieve on your own merit.
Lets say the situation were different, you caught him in a belt and your ECM permajamed him. Would he get to complain about being "blue balled"? Or does he just have to suck it up? I know he wouldn't have a big whinie fail thread here in F&I.
Why did you stay at the station after he killed one of you? You knew you couldn't kill him with five so why did you think four would win? What would you be saying about your encounter if he couldn't redock? He'd have known he couldn't redock and he'd never have come out at those odds. You'd have had no action at all until his Domi friend got there then they'd have rolled your failfleet and you'd probably be posting that T2 or domis' or soemthing is overpowered.
You claim that PVP only happens at stations. And you whine that people you shoot at can redock. Sounds to me like you only know how to camp stations in empire hoping someone is too stupid to check local.
Would you whine if he had an exit ss and was able to warp away before you could lock him down? Would you be screaming nerf the invulrnability timer on undock?
Finally, yes quit EVE and when you do, can I have your stuff?
-Galan
|
WARTECH ASSASSIN
|
Posted - 2008.09.07 09:57:00 -
[116]
/.signed
But let me add that he should not be able to dock ONLY IF he shoots back. The others have a good point about piracy and docking as a valid means of escape/hiding.
Don't just say its game mechanics and period it at that. That simply shuts off any room to improve EVE. It must constantly grow and look at ways to improve game play.
|
Sir Substance
Minmatar
MagiTech Alliance Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.09.07 10:36:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Anubis Xian
I agree, 5 mins is good...do it for stargates too.
yea, that's a brilliant idea, that way, if im moving 5 jumps, it will take me 25 minutes instead of, say, 4.
i support the station one. people who want to dock because they have no hope are fine, people who dock and undock as a fighting style get owned. works for me.
-
PvPers always say "GB2WoW". the message is that EVE is hard, and people just need to deal with it. wasn't it funny how when nano's started making it hard for *them*, that all went out the window? |
Fullmetal Jackass
|
Posted - 2008.09.07 11:35:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Sir Substance
Originally by: Anubis Xian
I agree, 5 mins is good...do it for stargates too.
yea, that's a brilliant idea, that way, if im moving 5 jumps, it will take me 25 minutes instead of, say, 4.
i support the station one. people who want to dock because they have no hope are fine, people who dock and undock as a fighting style get owned. works for me.
Are you gonna fire on someone in every single system you travel through? 5 minutes for a gate is probably too long if you open fire though. If you attack somone who then runs back through, yer fubared. 1 minute?
I think taking active participation in combat should prohibit you from docking for a full 15 minutes. The timer should be refreshed every time a player makes a hostile action against another player.
The bottom line is, if yer gonna start a fight, or join in on a fight, you shouldn't be able to go cry to mommy. Station "pee-a-boo" is about as gay as a rainbow leotard. Man up and have some honor. Fight it out or avoid destruction for the full timer.
|
Jalmari Huitsikko
Caldari
Karjala Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.09.07 11:53:00 -
[119]
OP and his pals probably epically failed. However. Aggro timers and stuff could use some work, specially in empire space. 0.0 is probably fine as it is, except logoffski delays and stuff...
|
Kel Nissa
|
Posted - 2008.09.07 15:22:00 -
[120]
The current docking games are part of the game mechanic. Really!
Still using this sort of game mechanic as strategy in such an abusive form is really close to be an exploit.
Docking games suck. They are one of the most annoying parts within eve. Old well trained players use this mechanic to kill novice players. Use your well tanked command ship, maybe your well tech 2 fittet megathron and war dec a 5 month old corp. Its obviously that the new players will lose some ships because they are unaware of this sort of game mechanic and even when they are willing to engage you are sure that docking will work because of their low dps.
And its even more annoying when there are several carriers or even huger ships docked in kamela (amarrs like docking games in faction war).
And astarte is a real hard nut to break. Dont expect to be able to have a chance vs such a ship when you are just a 5 man gang and its one of this stations with a far to long docking range.
CCP should change something. Whatever it is. Personally i would love when the ship size is included into the calculation. Parking a bicycle is really easy or? A smart is also just easy. But try it with a hammer or maybe something huger. Not so funny. Why is it possible to dock a capital sized ship in the same amount of time as it is possible to dock a small frig? It would be neat to see something like: 1 min for frigs, 1.5 min for destroyers up to several mins for battleships. And even higher for carriers.
Scrambled ships should not be able to use a jump gate. Or maybe the jump gate should include something like a activation time. Insta jump should be something like 10 sec for a frig up to 30 sec for a BS. When the ship is able to tank this amount of time: okay im fine with that.
Yes i know the current mechanic works like it works. I should learn to play like the mechanic works. Blabla we already had this kind of argumentation. This sort of arguments suck. If some kind of mechanic is obviously broken, someone should consider to improve it.
|
WARTECH ASSASSIN
|
Posted - 2008.09.09 09:12:00 -
[121]
Edited by: WARTECH ASSASSIN on 09/09/2008 09:12:49
Docking delay based on ship size would be irritating.
Let's keep the solution simple. Disable docking if in combat (if enemy shot back).
Let him dock if he didn't shoot back (i.e. getting away/ hiding).
|
ArmyOfMe
Personal Vendetta
Vendetta Alliance.
|
Posted - 2008.09.09 09:32:00 -
[122]
sorry, but the op made me
seems like the astarte pilot used his brains and used the game mechanics to his advantage to actually beat a bigger force.
sorry, but changing game mechaincs cause your 5 man gang didnt manage to take out a commandship in 1++ min is a no no imo.
once you guys noticed you couldnt beat him in time you should have warped away seeing as he cant have a point on you while docked
the only thing that failed in this fight by the sound of it was you and your gang
|
Daelin Blackleaf
|
Posted - 2008.09.09 10:04:00 -
[123]
As soon as we can look outside to at least try and ensure we're not un-docking into a blatant trap, then the targets timer can reset every time performs an aggressive action on the target.
Until then it would just swing things the other way and make it far too easy to gank people at stations. You know exactly where they are going to be, you can be at your optimal, and you often have the advantage of seeing and reacting to the target before he see's you.
-------------------------------
Hi-Sec: A place for the average player to make a safe income, not the place for the average player to make the best income. |
Fullmetal Jackass
|
Posted - 2008.09.09 11:03:00 -
[124]
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf
As soon as we can look outside to at least try and ensure we're not un-docking into a blatant trap, then the targets timer can reset every time performs an aggressive action on the target.
Until then it would just swing things the other way and make it far too easy to gank people at stations. You know exactly where they are going to be, you can be at your optimal, and you often have the advantage of seeing and reacting to the target before he see's you.
Most of us are talking about people that open fire then dock. If you don't open up on anyone, I think you should be able to redock just fine.
|
Fullmetal Jackass
|
Posted - 2008.09.09 11:07:00 -
[125]
Originally by: ArmyOfMe
sorry, but the op made me
seems like the astarte pilot used his brains and used the game mechanics to his advantage to actually beat a bigger force.
sorry, but changing game mechaincs cause your 5 man gang didnt manage to take out a commandship in 1++ min is a no no imo.
once you guys noticed you couldnt beat him in time you should have warped away seeing as he cant have a point on you while docked
the only thing that failed in this fight by the sound of it was you and your gang
Granted the OP failed, but that doesn't make the tactic any less lamesauce. You shouldn't be able to call time out in the middle of a fight you started. "hold up. I have to go repair. maybe get some different ammo." Grow a pair.
|
ArmyOfMe
Personal Vendetta
Vendetta Alliance.
|
Posted - 2008.09.09 11:56:00 -
[126]
well then it would be a much better start imo to reduce docking range on stations so much that you acutally end up outside docking range once you undock..
there are a few stations like that in eve and imo they are all a lot better then some of the caldari stations and a few others that have up to 35km docking range.
changing docking time however isnt one of the ways to fix this problem as its one of the few ways you can still fight outnumberd and still manage to survive.
|
Dav Varan
|
Posted - 2008.09.09 14:40:00 -
[127]
Docking delay is allready 1 minute after agression.
If you cant kill an astarte in 1 minute with a fleet of ships then you need to look at the ships your flying and there setups.
The game isnt broken, You are.
Thanks for the lulz though. |
Trent Nichols
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.09.09 15:05:00 -
[128]
Opinions about the OP aside, we have seen ships get an HP boost and the introduction of rigs in the last year or so. Ive played both sides of the docking game and that 1 min timer just doesn't do it anymore.
As others in this thread have said, fifteen even five minutes is excessive but how about two? I cant see any problems arising from a two minute timer and that should be plenty of time for a prepared fleet to polish of a target.
Logistics deployables mean less grind and more pewpew! |
Fullmetal Jackass
|
Posted - 2008.09.09 18:16:00 -
[129]
Originally by: ArmyOfMe
well then it would be a much better start imo to reduce docking range on stations so much that you acutally end up outside docking range once you undock..
there are a few stations like that in eve and imo they are all a lot better then some of the caldari stations and a few others that have up to 35km docking range.
changing docking time however isnt one of the ways to fix this problem as its one of the few ways you can still fight outnumberd and still manage to survive.
So what yer sayin is you can't fight without someone to hide behind?
|
ArmyOfMe
Personal Vendetta
Vendetta Alliance.
|
Posted - 2008.09.09 18:51:00 -
[130]
Originally by: Fullmetal Jackass
Originally by: ArmyOfMe
well then it would be a much better start imo to reduce docking range on stations so much that you acutally end up outside docking range once you undock..
there are a few stations like that in eve and imo they are all a lot better then some of the caldari stations and a few others that have up to 35km docking range.
changing docking time however isnt one of the ways to fix this problem as its one of the few ways you can still fight outnumberd and still manage to survive.
So what yer sayin is you can't fight without someone to hide behind?
well at least your name suits you fine.
someone thats been in a noob corp all their life really shouldnt comment on what other ppl do in this game
|
Fullmetal Jackass
|
Posted - 2008.09.09 19:14:00 -
[131]
Alt much?
|
ArmyOfMe
Personal Vendetta
Vendetta Alliance.
|
Posted - 2008.09.09 19:24:00 -
[132]
Originally by: Fullmetal Jackass
Alt much?
so what your saying is you even have to hide behind alts to post on the forums..
guess that says more about you then anything else then.
|
Fullmetal Jackass
|
Posted - 2008.09.09 19:31:00 -
[133]
Edited by: Fullmetal Jackass on 09/09/2008 19:32:40
No, what I'm saying is I post with an aptly named alt, so that I can speak my mind without a bunch of petty, small minded people looking me up and griefing me in game. I play to relax after all, not to deal with children.
At least I don't hide in a station when I pvp.
|
ArmyOfMe
Personal Vendetta
Vendetta Alliance.
|
Posted - 2008.09.09 19:35:00 -
[134]
Edited by: ArmyOfMe on 09/09/2008 19:47:13
Edited by: ArmyOfMe on 09/09/2008 19:44:57
Originally by: Fullmetal Jackass
Edited by: Fullmetal Jackass on 09/09/2008 19:32:40
No, what I'm saying is I post with an aptly named alt, so that I can speak my mind without a bunch of petty, small minded people looking me up and griefing me in game. I play to relax after all, not to deal with children.
At least I don't hide in a station when I pvp.
not sure whats worst tbh, the ppl hiding behind station docking or those thats so scared that they have to post with a alt on the forums cause of fear of pvp
the only thing ive seen after having read some of the threads you have been in is the fact that you seem to hate the idea that some ppl actually manage to think outside the box and do things solo.
Originally by: Fullmetal Jackass
Gotta love game mechanics set up to reward pussies and cowards.
gotta love forum mechanics set up to reward pussies and cowards
|
Arna Padrona
Amarr
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
|
Posted - 2008.09.09 19:38:00 -
[135]
I don't feel docking games is an exploit. It's cowardice, and shitty tactics, but not an exploit. Personally though, I wouldn't mind a longer aggression timer, to make it harder for them to just stop shooting and dock up.
|
Fullmetal Jackass
|
Posted - 2008.09.09 23:18:00 -
[136]
Originally by: ArmyOfMe
the only thing ive seen after having read some of the threads you have been in is the fact that you seem to hate the idea that some ppl actually manage to think outside the box and do things solo.
gotta love forum mechanics set up to reward pussies and cowards
Did I hit a nerve? Parroting back my words with a spin isn't exactly clever. "I know you are but what am I?"
Eve is a combat sim. It's fiction, but it's based on the idea of star ship combat. Hiding in a station isn't combat, and it's not even close to a real tactic. It's not "thinking outside the box", it's cowardice. Solo play my ass. Go make some friends.
I play the game for fun, as I said. I come to this forum to improve the game. If I hurt your feelings here, I don't really want you to come grief me in game. Griefing is another cowards tool. The griefer finds a way to bother another person, that hard to defend against, where as in real life if you got in my face to annoy me I'd stomp a mudhole in your ass. The internet makes small men feel big doesn't it?
I don't need some punk coward wasting my free time. Think of my alt as idiot insurance.
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Fullmetal Jackass
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Posted - 2008.09.14 14:54:00 -
[137]
This thread's title is 100% correct in my opinion.
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Alt altski
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Posted - 2008.09.14 19:05:00 -
[138]
This is just total bs tbh.
You were scramming .. webbing .. jamming him .
What else can he do appart from dock ... Why would he want to die.
He was using a tactic (probably spent alot of money on repairs aswell) that could kill your blob solo .. spending alot of money and risk of dieing anyway.
With so many blobs around hiding around corners with ecm so the solo ship cant even defend itself there should be another way out (deagressing and jumping / docking) as it cant do anything else when perma jammed.
How about you use bait tactics and dont just try and get it nerfed ....
Lead him off station with a bait ship and wait next door then jump in and gank all you like.
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Dark Phox
Caldari
Powered-With-Noob-Tears
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Posted - 2008.09.14 20:02:00 -
[139]
Edited by: Dark Phox on 14/09/2008 20:02:51
Solution is pretty simple. Put a bubble around the stations sort of like a POS. Then the only way you can even target one another is to get outside the bubble: IE: Outside of docking range.
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Reptzo
Channel 4 News Team
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Posted - 2008.09.15 01:54:00 -
[140]
Originally by: Dark Phox
Edited by: Dark Phox on 14/09/2008 20:02:51
Solution is pretty simple. Put a bubble around the stations sort of like a POS. Then the only way you can even target one another is to get outside the bubble: IE: Outside of docking range.
What happens then if people just go back inside the bubble?
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Cortana AI
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Posted - 2008.09.15 02:26:00 -
[141]
Yea sitting is a station is a cowards way of fighting, if you start the fight you shouldn't be able to dock for atleast 5 - 10 mins.
Then you only have the option of hiding or dieing |
Fullmetal Jackass
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Posted - 2008.09.15 18:39:00 -
[142]
Originally by: Cortana AI
Yea sitting is a station is a cowards way of fighting, if you start the fight you shouldn't be able to dock for atleast 5 - 10 mins.
Then you only have the option of hiding or dieing
Exactly this.
Originally by: Dark Phox
Solution is pretty simple. Put a bubble around the stations sort of like a POS. Then the only way you can even target one another is to get outside the bubble: IE: Outside of docking range.
I kinda like this idea too. Though I don't think you should be allowed inside the shield if you've fired on anyone in the last 15 minutes.
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Praesus Lecti
Gallente
Blueprint Haus
Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2008.09.15 19:16:00 -
[143]
Originally by: Scharfe Kerneisen
I want real battles.
Here is your solution: Move to 0.0.
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Cybele Lanier
Amarr
The Graduates
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.09.15 22:24:00 -
[144]
I like the idea of increasing docking timers. It would certainly make Empire wars a bit less pointless. This thread also shows that if you want a change in the mechanics, you should never ever use a specific example to illustrate how they're broken.
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""Minimum collateral damage" and "Entire star system" do not belong in the same sentence." |
Strill
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Posted - 2008.09.15 23:00:00 -
[145]
Edited by: Strill on 15/09/2008 23:01:34
Originally by: Joe Starbreaker
The system isn't broken. You need to learn how to fight better. That includes using your brain. Bait the enemy, tackle him, then bring your blob.
"bait"? How the heck are you supposed to get someone to move 15km away from the undock point? Seriously, please explain how that works.
If you have to bring a "blob" to kill a single ship, you've lost already. The single ship has wasted twenty times the man hours he spends afk.
On top of that, once you've brought a blob in, you've guaranteed that he's never going to attack you, which means you're never going to kill him ever. Essentially, the person with the weaker force is at an advantage. He can choose when and if the fight starts, while the superior force is forced to wait on their target's terms.
Quote:
Don't cry to CCP to save you because your enemy docked and you were too dense to dock or warp away!
So you're calling him dense because he in his 5 ships didn't run away from a single ship? And you're also saying that's not broken?
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Abuta Beki
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Posted - 2008.09.16 01:03:00 -
[146]
I think the whole docking issue would be much less severe, if stations were no-fighting-zones in highsec.
There is no plausible reason why station commanders would allow warfare right on their doorsteps. If i was in charge of a huge space station with a hotline to Concord and a batch of powerful defensive cannons, I'd order hostilities to stop immediately, unless they want to get shot at by the station.
Yet it should not just be forbidden. Instead, there could just be a counter. People start to fight, the station warns them off and if the hostilities continue, the station opens fire on everyone who is fighting within a certain radius around the station. The whole docking/undocking game and the more drastic forms of station camping would not work anymore. At least not in Empire. Lowsec should have a longer timer and in 0.0, it should depend a lot on whose station it is. Standing could even be factored in. A navy station is surely more likely to open fire on some goon who attacks someone they like.
Engagements could still start near a station, but they'd have to end elsewhere. This would also end the tanking games many corps play right in front of stations. Imagine how that would be in real life. A bunch of lunatic gang members, shooting at each other with pistols in front of a police station to test their new bulletproof vests? Surely the police would interfere and 'we're in the same gang, dude!' would likely not count as an excuse. Fighting in public places (read: in front of stations) should also impact security rating more than fighting elsewhere. |
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