For pvp to happen in eve, you need ships exploding, simple as.

For pvp to happen in eve, you need ships exploding, simple as.

Not true, you can put up buy-orders somewhere out of Jita with a higher price then those in Jita. Then people will ship it too you.

You do know markets are based on supply and demand. If you demand stuff at a certain station and the price is right, they suppliers will move it too your station and not Jita.

Mainly people are just buying and selling in Jita because they are lazy and know Jita is market heaven. But if you want rare mineral, just set up buy orders above Jita prices on the border with low-sec/0.0 and people will supply you, null-sec people already take time off to ship it to empire. They will be happy if it means only having to go 1 jump into high-sec instead of a long trip to Jita as it means they can be back in 0.0 doing fun stuff sooner

Thanks for your stupid opinion, but the fact is your opinion is stupid. PvP is anything where you are competing against another player. Highsec is filled with market PvP. It's very high stakes. The OP is asking for shelter from the consequences of that.

Not what I'm saying at all. Actually I'm saying two things.
1) The level of ship scanning going on is absolutely ridiculous. This has gone from color to crime wave.
2) Eventually the invisible hand is going to beat the eve market senseless and leave it bleeding in a ditch unless something is done to bring down transaction costs.

To this I should add point 3)
If transaction costs do not decrease hyperinflation will continue until PvP in its multiple forms becomes unsupportable. This is the market imparting the RL lesson that lawlessness is a bad thing on your skull. Only by having a special area with hardcoded protections is PvP able to exist. If there were not systemically safe areas the risk premium for goods would render PvP economically unfeasible. (And the failure of EvE along with almost every other unrestricted PvP game out there would become somebodies economics dissertation). By having a safe area with reasonably easy access from unsafe areas, PvP using items built at the safe area price becomes economically possible.

So no I don't hate PvP. I just think most PvPers would cut their own economics throats for a killmail, even if it resulted in null/WH becoming the wasteland the lowsec is.

BTW your alliances (for the Goon poster) holds spaces because other alliances did not understand risk premiums and put price controls on their markets.

(stuff)

lol... the funniest part of this whole thread is people treating suicide ganking like it's a form of PvP, or for that matter, combat. I can't tell you how many times my Tornado has had Obelisks shoot back... I really can't. Really. xD

There are tons of players that live in high sec, and enjoy playing eve for all the things that aren't pvp. Remember the term "pvp" isn't unique to eve. Its a term used in all mmo's to describe situations where players are fighting against players.

I've got friends that dont even undock, as crazy as that sounds, prefectly happy playing the market and making insane spreadsheets to add their crazy-high isk levels.

For pvp to happen in eve, you need ships exploding, simple as.

Not what I'm saying at all. Actually I'm saying two things.
1) The level of ship scanning going on is absolutely ridiculous. This has gone from color to crime wave.

lol... the funniest part of this whole thread is people treating suicide ganking like it's a form of PvP, or for that matter, combat. I can't tell you how many times my Tornado has had Obelisks shoot back... I really can't. Really. xD

Highsec is a PvP arena, so why should they have to leave to get some?

So those aren't players piloting those Obelisks? If not then CCP has a much bigger botting problem than they realize.

High sec neutral suicide is the only 1 to 3 man PvP left in EVE. Bring anything smaller than a 20 man to low sec or null sec and it's less about PvP and more about evasion. I don't much care if they lock me to be honest. It would be nice to rig a ship to counter scanning though. That's where smuggling comes in to play in EVE. Smuggling that never really came about.

The blob vs blob has been understood and dealt with, by most other PvP games. EvE has no controlled "battlegrounds" or game facilities where top corps can prove themselves and get prizes / brags. The only one is the yearly tournament.

See how cool it would be if such thing was always available, maybe with an ELO-derived system? And the top corps end up being the one chosen for the official EvE tournament.

I've handled high end moon mineral sales for a 0.0 corp before. Your small buy order isn't enough to change the course of a dyspo freighter over. Besides those minerals are simply landing (one jump in), they are being JFed to a quite low sec entry system and scouted through a back route to Jita. Once they arrive they're getting dumped on a Jita buy order, the profit booked, and any amounts due the alliance paid.

I suppose some guys running a mining alt might drop Zyd on your buy orders. Really though nobody is rerouting a high end hauler for your small buy orders. Those things go like a bat out of hell for Jita.

Also buying significantly over market does not help the inflation problem in EvE.

actually, that's considered an exploit - if you get a GCC in highsec and manage to avoid losing your ship, the GMs will lay the banhammer pretty quick.

Yeah ive heard this arguement many, many times, and completely disagree. There are tons of players that live in high sec, and enjoy playing eve for all the things that aren't pvp. Remember the term "pvp" isn't unique to eve. Its a term used in all mmo's to describe situations where players are fighting against players. Whereas its true that eve is unique in the sense that everything is player driven, such as the economy, that doesnt mean that everyone is doing pvp similtaniously all the time. I've got friends that dont even undock, as crazy as that sounds, prefectly happy playing the market and making insane spreadsheets to add their crazy-high isk levels. He laughs at such arguments, saying how awesome he is at pvp everytime he makes a bunch of mining vessles.

For pvp to happen in eve, you need ships exploding, simple as. Its the mentaility of low and null-sec players constantly screaming "pvp only game!" while blowing up mostly defenceless targets in high-sec that have no interest in that side of the game that is ultimately harming eve's growth. What reason do carebears have to naturally advance to other areas under these circumstances?

I guess you guys argue so strongly to justify these actions because you love their tears, cause it makes you easy isk, and they they dont tend to shoot back. Well i guess you can give yourself a nice big pat on the back for being so awesome.

Personally i think eve is awesome because it allows both sides of this agreument to enjoy the game. Who cares what makes you love eve, as long as you keep playing and paying. But many people on these forums seem determined to attack those that dont share their narrow view of eve.

And no, as usual, i have to put in the standard "im not a carebear living in empire" addition, just to avoid flamage. Personally, i love a bit of pvp!

Hmm, my understanding was it was semi-legit, as long as you got blown up in SOMETHING while CONCORD chased ya.

Might want to check with a GM if I ever do decide to go ganking on that one, my orca alt will be heartbroken.

Exploits are exploits, PERIOD.

Game ruleset provides you the ability to kill whatever in high sec but at the cost of losing the ship used in the gank.

If you don't lose the ship then you are on the same level of botters. You cheated.

Why not just give freighters slots heck a single low slot for a damage control can't be too much to ask can it?

What i would like to see is :

1.Wreck of the ship destroyed by criminal aggresion beeing owned by victim, not killer.
2.Anyone who steals from someone's wreck/container beeing marked as agressor for EVERYONE (Gary Oldman voice here)

And let the hunt for ganker's hauling alts/partners begins !

But what is the difference between a clever use of the game mechanics, and a cheating exploit?

#1 already happens. #2 makes absolutely no sense.

About #2 - why not ?? If I see one running down the street with someones wallet and old lady screaming should I do absolutely nothing and wait for police to show up ? (HA HA !). Anyway - ganking is not about destroying ship, it's about stealing it's cargo. Behind every suicide ganker is his alt or friend in hauler who quickly grabs the loot and gets the f*** out. Kill him, and ganking will make no sense.

But what is the difference between a clever use of the game mechanics, and a cheating exploit?

Jack all, thats what. If CCP don't like a certain use of the game mechanics, then they can fix the hole, like they have done many times over. Until that happens, or until CCP make a public announcement specifically ruling that something is a cheating exploit, then anyone is free to use the game mechanics to their own advantage.