This is reaching the level of a crime wave. The gankers are no longer even using passive targeters to scan you. I'm getting visibly scanned every time I bring any form of hauler into Jita.

Its also putting hard limit on how much isk can be shipped that is, I think, lower than what CCP intended.

This is reaching the level of a crime wave.

How about putting Perimeter and Sobaseki on your avoidance list? The other gates in Jita are completely void of gankers. And in the worst case, it'll add 4 jumps to your trips.

This is reaching the level of a crime wave. The gankers are no longer even using passive targeters to scan you. I'm getting visibly scanned every time I bring any form of hauler into Jita. This is an annoying constant assault. Its also putting hard limit on how much isk can be shipped that is, I think, lower than what CCP intended.

Werds

Funny, the only time I have been yellow boxed is when I'm autopiloting (which I only do with an empty or worthless cargo hold, mind you).

1 put the expensive stuff you want to haul in cans/freight containers
2 contract the cans of stuff to an alt
3 have the alt courier contract the cans of stuff to back you
4 fly immune to cargo scanners

the only problem with suicide ganking is the punishment is hardly anything.
one way to help fix it is make sec status mean something more then "your allowed to enter space"

This is reaching the level of a crime wave. The gankers are no longer even using passive targeters to scan you. I'm getting visibly scanned every time I bring any form of hauler into Jita. This is an annoying constant assault. Its also putting hard limit on how much isk can be shipped that is, I think, lower than what CCP intended.

A 700m cap on moving stuff with a freighter makes any good with a value greater than say 1000 isk/m3 difficult to ship (assuming a freighter hold of 700,000 m/3. Trit is going for 4.5 isk/unit right now or 450 isk/m3.

Let me try to get this through your thick skull. Any mod with more than a 2.2 compression factor, just on trit alone, can no longer be efficiently hauled. That's almost every item in the game (except cap boosters).

If you can't ship effectively you go from large industrialists spooling up large jobs to little guys moving in a stack of maybe 100 mods at a time. This is not a good thing for an effective low price point.

This is reaching the level of a crime wave. The gankers are no longer even using passive targeters to scan you. I'm getting visibly scanned every time I bring any form of hauler into Jita. This is an annoying constant assault. Its also putting hard limit on how much isk can be shipped that is, I think, lower than what CCP intended.

O fficial
R ape
C age
A mbulate

[quote=Stella SGP]Well, referring to an earlier thread about suicide freighters, sadly the general consensus on the forums seem to be either haul less then 700mil in your freighter or bring a gang of 12 remote reppers to counter the 12 Tornados sitting on gate.

A 700m cap on moving stuff with a freighter makes any good with a value greater than say 1000 isk/m3 difficult to ship (assuming a freighter hold of 700,000 m/3. Trit is going for 4.5 isk/unit right now or 450 isk/m3.

Let me try to get this through your thick skull. Any mod with more than a 2.2 compression factor, just on trit alone, can no longer be efficiently hauled. That's almost every item in the game (except cap boosters).

You kill the ability to ship things then wonder why the game has run away inflation. If you can't ship effectively you go from large industrialists spooling up large jobs to little guys moving in a stack of maybe 100 mods at a time. This is not a good thing for an effective low price point.

[quote=Stella SGP]Well, referring to an earlier thread about suicide freighters, sadly the general consensus on the forums seem to be either haul less then 700mil in your freighter or bring a gang of 12 remote reppers to counter the 12 Tornados sitting on gate.

A 700m cap on moving stuff with a freighter makes any good with a value greater than say 1000 isk/m3 difficult to ship (assuming a freighter hold of 700,000 m/3. Trit is going for 4.5 isk/unit right now or 450 isk/m3.

Let me try to get this through your thick skull. Any mod with more than a 2.2 compression factor, just on trit alone, can no longer be efficiently hauled. That's almost every item in the game (except cap boosters).

You kill the ability to ship things then wonder why the game has run away inflation. If you can't ship effectively you go from large industrialists spooling up large jobs to little guys moving in a stack of maybe 100 mods at a time. This is not a good thing for an effective low price point.

I undocked at 4-4 last night in an empty badger and the split second I clicked to use my insta, I was locked and scanned. They have a .8 second lock, it isn't like you are going to do anything about it.

Sure there are a hundred one trick pony tactics you can use to evade, as many "don't do that" mantra's alive and thriving in EVE but at the end of the day I am reminded of how CCP have shown an eager willingness to coddle free to play dust bunnies but paying Industrials in EVE? You are goon food, go fuckyourself.

Nothing against hi sec ganking.

But calling it "the only PvP left for hi sec" sounds like someone is as carebear at refusing to go PvP in low / 0.0 sec as those hi seccers they want to kill. Nobody pays you to stay in hi sec, if you find it too restrictive to pew pew in there.

Finally, I think CCP should review the lock times. Like nano-extreme brought a nerf, like super unscannable ships got nerfed, CCP should also make lock times limited to a minimum of 1 simulation heartbeat plus about 100ms for out of UK players.

But calling it "the only PvP left for hi sec" sounds like someone is as carebear at refusing to go PvP in low / 0.0 sec as those hi seccers they want to kill.

I like the idea of being able to cargo scan but putting a gank extraordinaire ship into the game without making it harder to overall to balance things out is silly.

Highsec is a PvP arena, so why should they have to leave to get some?

They already did that, long before the ships were added. If anything, the ship was put in to balance things out, since it had become so ridiculously safe.

Highsec is a PvP arena, so why should they have to leave to get some?

An I5 can haul more then 40kM3... Don't need an Orca.

An I5 can haul more then 40kM3... Don't need an Orca.

Nothing against hi sec ganking.

But calling it "the only PvP left for hi sec" sounds like someone is as carebear at refusing to go PvP in low / 0.0 sec as those hi seccers they want to kill. Nobody pays you to stay in hi sec, if you find it too restrictive to pew pew in there.

Finally, I think CCP should review the lock times. Like nano-extreme brought a nerf, like super unscannable ships got nerfed, CCP should also make lock times limited to a minimum of 1 simulation heartbeat plus about 100ms for out of UK players.

I highly doubt that that gank threshold for a freighter cargo is so low as 700m. For a start, you have that 50% (at best) drop rate. Then you have the 12 or 15 guys who want to actually turn a profit. And then you have the opportunity cost of shooting at a crappy cargo and spending 15 mins watching all the good stuff fly by. And then there are the ninja looters.

I'd say you were ok with 2bill, Much more if its low value high bulk stuff.

And if its compact high value stuff, you shouldn't use a freighter to move it...

I undocked at 4-4 last night in an empty badger and the split second I clicked to use my insta, I was locked and scanned. They have a .8 second lock, it isn't like you are going to do anything about it.

And what if an alliance like the Goons would take up positions on all the major trade routes, at all the major hubs, on all the major stations in a continuous "wolfpack" style blockade of high sec?

But it's great for small industrialists and regional market hubs. You're making some very good arguments in favor of suicide ganking.

I was attacked once 4 years ago in my hauler. I do 4 or 5 trips into and out of jita every day and have been scanned twice in 5 months.

I don't think this is as big an issue as the OP thinks.

Turn automatic lockback on. You aren't seeing the scans in the chaos of Jita.

Indeed. I see 2-3 scanner spamming frigates in Jita every time I'm there.

So either I'm lucky or someone is doing it wrong...

I'll kick this thread up a notch.

Suicide ganking is a viable tactic, but you should be podded by Concord for it.

Cold, harsh and unforgiving is the mantra, I believe. Make it true CCP. Pod the bastards.

Mr Epeen

Why would my pod being blown up stop me from suicide ganking? Sounds like pubbie logic.

Though not in the last little while, I have over the years moved billions (up to abour 10bil) at a time in and out of Jita. The only time I got ganked was when I left some T2 BPC's in a shuttle by accident and AP'd to Jita and was sat on a gate for about 20 minutes. Suicide ganking is easily avoidable if you take simple and common sense precautions, if you don't you deserve to lose your ship and cargo.

Part of the problem is the punishment system has a lot to be desired. Taking insurance payouts from gankers were just common sense but imo doesn't really go far enough.

Imortals should have a better punishment system than the one Eve has. For instance, when your in high sec and you blow up another citizen or kill them you shouldn't just be given the current "Community service" punishment that is currently in place.
What kind of punishment is chain killing a few priates in low or null? You can get sec status back up in hours/ days, then go right back to killing people inside of the factions space.

One thing to do is not only should the person take a sec status hit, they should take a hit to all corporations/ factions the victim had good standings with, the hit should be based on how good of standings the victim had with said corps/ faction.
They should also be banished from that factions space for a time limit, increasing with each offense, say a 3 strike rule. Say strike one is a weeks banishment, strike two a months banishment, strike three perma ban from that factions space where they are KOS to everyone. During the banishment period clone contracts in that area should also be revoked.

This will not make high sec totally safe, but it would require gankers to decide the risk verse reward, and would make more sense in a "highly evolved" society.

Sure people will make ganking alts, but thats just eve. As it is null is safer than high sec and doesn't even adress low sec, but with people being banished from high sec, at least after time the population would grow in low waiting to gank high and null sec dwellers as they pass through.

That being said, the risk verse reward needs to be totally revamped for all area's of space. (As though we don't know that)

Here's a quick list of things that can no longer be moved by the freighterload


Antimatter Charge M = 3920 isk/m3 (using lowest Forge price).
EMP M = 3920 ism/m3 (give or take a couple of isk).
Hammerhead I = 2889 isk/m3

The gank limit is currently around 1000isk m/3 (For 700mil in drop from 700K of cargohold).

When a freighter can not move a full cargohold of T1 ammo or T1 drones something has gone horribly wrong.

your ideas suck

if you want risk-free pve go to wow thanks!!!

As someone who's done a fair amount of suicide ganking and runs lots of cargo through Jita on a regular basis, I can say with 100% certainty that moving cargo isn't about making it impossible or even particularly difficult to be suicide ganked. You just have to be a less worthwhile target than the freighter next to you.

Having a same-corp alt to give you webs helps a lot too, but for some reason every time I show in Empire CONCORD decides that, no, the week I spent shooting Sansha rats in Stain doesn't count after all and they still hate me.

Where did I mention "Risk free pve"? Reading 101 ftw

Targeting like that is frequently used to make people panic and think less rationally. It is a strategy like any other. Also, easy and cheap way to unnerve the bears. :)

High-sec is suppose to be a safe haven for all those that want to play the none-pvp side of eve.

Why would my pod being blown up stop me from suicide ganking? Sounds like pubbie logic.

Your idea discourages suicide ganking and punishes "offenders" with permanent banishment from hisec space. Get out.

Last week, I logged in shortly after downtime and saw that a courier contract I had put up earlier was still lying unfulfilled. Being the impatient pup that I was, I decided to haul the goods myself in a T1 industrial. All 1b ISK worth of goods. Since downtime only ended recently, the online population was "only" 5,000 so I figured the chances of avoiding a suicide-gank were good.

How wrong I was. Four jumps out of Jita, I suddenly found myself floating in a pod, 1b poorer. That 1b represented over half of my assets and I naturally asked myself the question every victim of a suicide-gank asks himself - "Should I continue playing this game?"

I exited, swore to myself to never play EVE again, opened up LOTRO and began the PVE grind in Middle Earth. After five minutes, I realised that accomplishments in games like WoW and LOTRO don't really mean anything. Since death is "risk-free" in these games, all accomplishments do is signify the time you spent in these games.

Not so in EVE. While accomplishments in EVE do require time as well, they also demand SKILL and INTELLIGENCE. If you lack the latter, this game will brutally punish you. Thus accomplishments in EVE are far more meaningful than in games like WoW or LOTRO. A mistake in WoW will only cost you inconvenience and a tiny bit of gold to repair your equipment. A mistake in EVE can cost everything.

It is this brutality that makes EVE so much more enticing. When you achieve something, you really achieve it. Suicide-gankers ensure there is no real safe zone in EVE. Success in EVE is earned, not given.

To all the suicide-gankers out there, thank you for making EVE an interesting place.

The 3 strike rule was an example, and yes it would discourage it, of course being a goon, you would find ways around it.

Would crime not be discouraged by any society? There would still be ganking, there would still be can flipping, there would still be baiting, and if they fix the war dec system there would still be wars, not to mention fw. You would just have to pick targets a little more carefully based on value or to cut enemy supply lines.

And bots don't typically have any sort of standings twoards any faction or corporation, so there would be little to no hit in those cases.

Sure people will make ganking alts, but thats just eve. As it is null is safer than high sec and doesn't even adress low sec, but with people being banished from high sec, at least after time the population would grow in low waiting to gank high and null sec dwellers as they pass through.

As it is null is safer than high sec

I think you have hit on the core of the problem there. The more rules you make the more overburdened a system becomes. And the more likely you make it that someone will find a way around those rules.

I still think they should remove CONCORD, implement NPC defensive ships that match the capabilities of player ships to defend NPC space (With realistically escalating numbers in the face of a larger threat) and allow corporations to defend their own space. Let the player population defend their own and take control of the sandbox in that way.

But, that's me. I'm a sucker for punishment

Want a hint? Look up "Zombies, Siege of Yulai"

Here's a quick list of things that can no longer be moved by the freighterload


Antimatter Charge M = 3920 isk/m3 (using lowest Forge price).
EMP M = 3920 ism/m3 (give or take a couple of isk).
Hammerhead I = 2889 isk/m3

The gank limit is currently around 1000isk m/3 (For 700mil in drop from 700K of cargohold).

When a freighter can not move a full cargohold of T1 ammo or T1 drones something has gone horribly wrong.

Yeah and back in the day I loaded a Large Faction Tower into an Ity IV, put some tank on the thing, and made it to my destination. This is not back in the day. Simply fitting a tank and not AFKing is no longer enough.

Here's a quick list of things that can no longer be moved by the freighterload


Antimatter Charge M = 3920 isk/m3 (using lowest Forge price).
EMP M = 3920 ism/m3 (give or take a couple of isk).
Hammerhead I = 2889 isk/m3

The gank limit is currently around 1000isk m/3 (For 700mil in drop from 700K of cargohold).

When a freighter can not move a full cargohold of T1 ammo or T1 drones something has gone horribly wrong.

I got suicide ganked yesterday. Delightful experience. Funny now but wasn't impressed at the time. My tengu got hit by 5 thrashers and a rupture. Pilots had -9.x type sec status. Killboard revealed they ganked 2 other tengus in the preceeding hour. Neither had a single faction mod. I had minimal faction gear.

It appears players (with bad sec status) can take out a series of ships in high sec with essentially no penalty.

So why is it called high sec? How about a name change (or penalty)? 'Gank sec' lol?

I've lost SP in pvp and pve but losing SP to a suicide gank is rude.

Suicide ganking isn't combat. It shouldn't boost kill records. Moreover, if the target hasn't heard of suicide ganking then it isn't even pvp.

Well, Im off to buy a thrasher.

Now you ought to use an appropriate ship, fit it properly and pay attention to your route.


Just like always.

ahahah sure why don't you come right down

I got suicide ganked yesterday. Delightful experience. Funny now but wasn't impressed at the time. My tengu got hit by 5 thrashers and a rupture. Pilots had -9.x type sec status. Killboard revealed they ganked 2 other tengus in the preceeding hour. Neither had a single faction mod. I had minimal faction gear.

It appears players (with bad sec status) can take out a series of ships in high sec with essentially no penalty.

So why is it called high sec? How about a name change (or penalty)? 'Gank sec' lol?

I've lost SP in pvp and pve but losing SP to a suicide gank is rude.

Suicide ganking isn't combat. It shouldn't boost kill records. Moreover, if the target hasn't heard of suicide ganking then it isn't even pvp.

Well, Im off to buy a thrasher.

I've been in null, lived there for awhile, it was pretty safe in alliance held space.....or are you saying Goons now operate on NRDS? If not, why not?

I've been in null, lived there for awhile, it was pretty safe in alliance held space.....or are you saying Goons now operate on NRDS? If not, why not?

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=12704064

Don't fly what you can't afford to lose.

Brief but pointless

Brief but pointless

It showed that you made yourself a target. That was a fair bit of bling you had on there.

As I stated, the 2 other tengus didn't have a single faction mod. 300M isn't a lot of bling. 100M dropped. It wasn't about isk.

I think I drove the point home, actually. You're whining about losing your 1b Tengu (awful fit btw) to suicide gankers because, much like the rest of the highsec welfare queens, you felt that it's perfectly safe because Concord is supposed to protect you. That turned out not to be the case, and you proceeded to make a post about it.

I can replace it dozens of times over. The point was it's called high sec and there was no penalty for taking out 3 tengus. It's a contradiction, so the name high sec is misleading.

I can replace it dozens of times over. The point was it's called high sec and there was no penalty for taking out 3 tengus. It's a contradiction, so the name high sec is misleading.

CCP, do something about the whinebaby problem!

I can't read the forums without some high-sec whale crybaby blathering about how PVP has interfered with their PVE paradise.

It doesn't matter that there are other forums on the internet that I could read, I want to read these forums. Clearly I should not be getting bombarded by whines about the lack of safety in highsec, since this is a very well-advertised PVP game. But no! Every time I go to the forum I see whines about high-sec!

This is bordering on a crimewave! Bawlbabies are spreading vitriol on the forums at an astonishing rate bordering on libelous slander! Oh noes! Soon it won't even be safe to post here anymore!

Seriously, this post has more content above this paragraph than the OP's entire rant. Complaining about getting scanned is utterly ridiculous. And complaining that you can't market goods because Jita is "closed off" by gankers is pretty damned laughable.

There are several (and I mean several) other hubs. Amarr, Dodixie, Hek, Oursulaert, Rens, Tash-Murkon Prime, to name a few.

Fly an Orca. Go somewhere else. ****, at least think about what you could do differently instead of coming on here and basically acting like a six year old with a knee-jerk tattle-tale reaction.



ORLY? No penalty?!? They didn't lose ships? Standings? Security status? Were they not given a GCC and detained for 15 minutes from flying a ship?

CCP really needs to fix that, then!

CCP, do something about the whinebaby problem!

I can't read the forums without some high-sec whale crybaby blathering about how PVP has interfered with their PVE paradise.

It doesn't matter that there are other forums on the internet that I could read, I want to read these forums. Clearly I should not be getting bombarded by whines about the lack of safety in highsec, since this is a very well-advertised PVP game. But no! Every time I go to the forum I see whines about high-sec!

This is bordering on a crimewave! Bawlbabies are spreading vitriol on the forums at an astonishing rate bordering on libelous slander! Oh noes! Soon it won't even be safe to post here anymore!

Seriously, this post has more content above this paragraph than the OP's entire rant. Complaining about getting scanned is utterly ridiculous. And complaining that you can't market goods because Jita is "closed off" by gankers is pretty damned laughable.

There are several (and I mean several) other hubs. Amarr, Dodixie, Hek, Oursulaert, Rens, Tash-Murkon Prime, to name a few.

Fly an Orca. Go somewhere else. ****, at least think about what you could do differently instead of coming on here and basically acting like a six year old with a knee-jerk tattle-tale reaction.



ORLY? No penalty?!? They didn't lose ships? Standings? Security status? Were they not given a GCC and detained for 15 minutes from flying a ship?

CCP really needs to fix that, then!

It is only safe in null sec so long as the people make it safe.

Can't you read. The ships were worth a few mil each. Throwaways. Sec status was -9.x. I didn't ask ccp to do anything about it.

Agreed, and you know who is going to try to kill you.

Agreed, and you know who is going to try to kill you.

Obviously your Tengu was a throwaway, too. I bet you toss and turn at night knowing it was destroyed for a paltry few million ISK. I bet you thought your faction booster made it teh uberz.

Besides, you didn't answer all my questions. Did they lose standings? Yes. Were they detained? Yes.

Thanks.

It's very clear to me now, I can't have an intelligent discussion here

Suicide ganking is so prevalent because it's the ONLY viable form of PvP left in highsec.

The wardec mechanics have been broken for years and the GMs let it go to trash.

How do you kill someone in highsec? Wardec is no longer a viable option.
So what are you left with? Suicide ganking.

Simple, if people want pvp then go to low-sec. High-sec is suppose to be a safe haven for all those that want to play the none-pvp side of eve.

Here's a quick list of things that can no longer be moved by the freighterload


Antimatter Charge M = 3920 isk/m3 (using lowest Forge price).
EMP M = 3920 ism/m3 (give or take a couple of isk).
Hammerhead I = 2889 isk/m3

The gank limit is currently around 1000isk m/3 (For 700mil in drop from 700K of cargohold).

When a freighter can not move a full cargohold of T1 ammo or T1 drones something has gone horribly wrong.

It appears players (with bad sec status) can take out a series of ships in high sec with essentially no penalty.

So why is it called high sec? How about a name change (or penalty)? 'Gank sec' lol?

I've lost SP in pvp and pve but losing SP to a suicide gank is rude.

Suicide ganking isn't combat. It shouldn't boost kill records. Moreover, if the target hasn't heard of suicide ganking then it isn't even pvp.

Suicide ganking is so prevalent because it's the ONLY viable form of PvP left in highsec

The wardec mechanics have been broken for years and the GMs let it go to trash

How do you kill someone in highsec? Wardec is no longer a viable option.
So what are you left with? Suicide ganking.

An I5 can haul more then 40kM3... Don't need an Orca.

You, sir, have obviously never heard of awoxing.

You, sir, have obviously never heard of awoxing.

Now note: I am not advocating PvP free as some are. I am just adding to the discussion on what could be done to get people into 0.0 to 0.4 so there is more pew pew

Andski, I'm starting to believe that all this time it's been *us* that's been wrong. I'm believing more and more that Everybody vs. Everybody *is* a game where people in highsec can expect to be perfectly safe from any and all interference with their persons.

Maybe we should just all hang up our guns and accept that the west is no longer wild.

/me is defeated.

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=12704064

Don't fly what you can't afford to lose.

Simple: increase the amount of pew-pew in highsec so the move to low/null won't feel as such a great leapGǪ

Increased suicide ganking just threatens that game imo, as their are many players that get their enjoyment of the game from a zero-pvp perspective, blowing them up is just going to get them to unsub. They have no interest in pvp, regardless how many times you try to force it upon them, they want to do all the things you label as boring.

Pretty pointless complaining about it on these forums though, as they are mostly populated by people that collect tears, and ganking their biggest generator. So unsubscribing with the reason "high-sec ganking" might be the only true way to do anything about it.

Increased suicide ganking just threatens that game imo, as their are many players that get their enjoyment of the game from a zero-pvp perspective, blowing them up is just going to get them to unsub. They have no interest in pvp, regardless how many times you try to force it upon them, they want to do all the things you label as boring.

Pretty pointless complaining about it on these forums though, as they are mostly populated by people that collect tears, and ganking their biggest generator. So unsubscribing with the reason "high-sec ganking" might be the only true way to do anything about it.

This is reaching the level of a crime wave. The gankers are no longer even using passive targeters to scan you. I'm getting visibly scanned every time I bring any form of hauler into Jita. This is an annoying constant assault. Its also putting hard limit on how much isk can be shipped that is, I think, lower than what CCP intended.

Because, Satan forbid that people might actually even consider trying to develop and maintain situational awareness and risk-management in an open-world/open-PvP centered game, eh?

[/Facepalm]

What has happened to my/our EVE?

No I'm serious:

Maybe I'm looking at it through rose-coloured glasses, but I don't recall this many entitled whingebabies in this community cropping up until relatively recently, like the last year or so.

Where did they all come from (relatively) all of a sudden, and what did they all think they were getting into?

Get out of our game, you over-entitled pathetic willing victims.

I got suicide ganked yesterday. Delightful experience. Funny now but wasn't impressed at the time. My tengu got hit by 5 thrashers and a rupture. Pilots had -9.x type sec status. Killboard revealed they ganked 2 other tengus in the preceeding hour. Neither had a single faction mod. I had minimal faction gear.

It appears players (with bad sec status) can take out a series of ships in high sec with essentially no penalty.

So why is it called high sec? How about a name change (or penalty)? 'Gank sec' lol?

I've lost SP in pvp and pve but losing SP to a suicide gank is rude.

Suicide ganking isn't combat. It shouldn't boost kill records. Moreover, if the target hasn't heard of suicide ganking then it isn't even pvp.

Well, Im off to buy a thrasher.

Increased suicide ganking just threatens that game imo, as their are many players that get their enjoyment of the game from a zero-pvp perspective, blowing them up is just going to get them to unsub.

Stop autopiloting through empire if you're transporting expensive stuff.

Suicide ganking is the result of a failure pvp system in a game which focused around pvp.

Nothing to be changed about the mechanics around suicide ganking, the thing they should do something about is the system around pvp in eve online.

Suicide ganking is the result of a failure pvp system in a game which focused around pvp.

Nothing to be changed about the mechanics around suicide ganking, the thing they should do something about is the system around pvp in eve online.

CCP doesn't have anything to do with ganking being lucrative. Idiots who haul freighters full of valuable cargo make it lucrative. Idiots who officer fit their mission-running ships make it lucrative.

(Except maybe, is there really no way of escaping concorde? Automatical loss is somehow boring...)

has to deal with the pimped carebear ships.

[quote=Taedrin]Getting constantly scanned is annoying. Not as annoying as getting ganked, but having people constantly take the first step to attack you gets old fast.

I never understood why people cry so much about carebears and whatever while hanging desperatly on them like parasites, you know unable to live without them...

(Except maybe, is there really no way of escaping concorde? Automatical loss is somehow boring...)

everything would be fine if those gankers wouldn-¦t be just throw away alts, so sec status doesn-¦t really bother them...

The problem is that there are two different time frames
1. Industrial job time which is an AFK activity
2. Hauling time, which is an (semi-ATK) activity

Somebody is going to need to haul minerals to the trade hub for the small industrialists. Since this is an atk activity they are going to want to make a certain, inflation adjusted, amount per trip

Small industrialists want a percentage return for tying their isk in an industry job

The problem is that industrialists set the inflation base for the game. Mineral prices will rise to reflect the premium on haulage. Because mineral prices rise, the price of goods rises to meet the profit expectations of the producers. Because prices of goods have risen the hauler will ask more for the next shipment of goods. Rinse and repeat for an inflationary spiral.

I think you have hit on the core of the problem there. The more rules you make the more overburdened a system becomes. And the more likely you make it that someone will find a way around those rules.

I still think they should remove CONCORD, implement NPC defensive ships that match the capabilities of player ships to defend NPC space (With realistically escalating numbers in the face of a larger threat) and allow corporations to defend their own space. Let the player population defend their own and take control of the sandbox in that way.

But, that's me. I'm a sucker for punishment

There is a trick involving an orca to save a high priced gank ship. I won't elaborate

There is a trick involving an orca to save a high priced gank ship. I won't elaborate

Please? I want to have to deal wit pimped carebear ships while flying just about any pvp ship.

[Not condoning it, but I reckon if you are killing botters, I don't see anything wrong with fighting exploits with exploits.

Except two wrongs don't make a right.

Except two wrongs don't make a right.

the problem is for the victim is its too easy for gankers. Far too easy...

However its far too difficult for CCP to police.

Oh my God! Another one!

Go away, will you.

Bloody Hell...

Seems thats the only way you seem to be able to defend the current pvp system in this game.
If the current pvp system in eve online is fine and has no problems then i wonder what the deal is all about then concerning next expansion.

I love how you make that assertion while failing to point out the flaws in this "failure PvP system."

Close, but not quite.
The problem is that the victim makes it too easy for the gankers.

I was kind of wondering how these guys got four ganks (that I know of) off the same undock. You'd think these Tengu pilots would notice a stranger sitting on the undock, or check local every so often to see if there was someone they didn't recognize, or even see if there was chatter in local, or hell, just noticed that there was a ******* Tengu wreck on the undock.

***Alternatively, a perfectly legal variation to save costs on ganking: (I DO condone this, BTW, as it is *not* an exploit)

T2 Fit a Tornado, gank, fly to Orca - then 'unfit' the 1400MM T2 guns into the Orca's corp hangar before Concord arrives.
Don't bother wasting time with the fitting window: just quickly drag and drop mods directly from the UI to the Orca Corp Hangar.

Each gun saved is 4-5M ISK and you can do this even while locked down and neuted by Concord.
Then bolt those T2 1400MM Arties directly onto a brand new hull.

This.

I was kind of wondering how these guys got four ganks (that I know of) off the same undock. You'd think these Tengu pilots would notice a stranger sitting on the undock, or check local every so often to see if there was someone they didn't recognize, or even see if there was chatter in local, or hell, just noticed that there was a ******* Tengu wreck on the undock.

Some people...

are obviously botting.

Depends. If the wrecks were salvaged there were no markers. The undock at many of the empire missioning hubs is busy! If there are 140 people in system it takes a big gang on the undock to rise beyond the level of normal traffic.

The last I checked, minerals need to be at manufacturing facilities for industrialists to use them, not trade hubs. The only reason to buy minerals in a trade hub is that you can buy in huge quantities, which small industrialists don't need to do. You actually pay a premium for minerals at trade hubs, as I'm sure you're aware.

If hauling minerals to Jita becomes less profitable due to ganking, why wouldn't small scale producers actually see a decrease in mineral prices on their local markets?

If I were a small scale highsec producer, I'd consider sponsoring suicide gankers, and possibly getting together with other small scale producers to sponsor widespread ganking along all the main trade routes. In fact, that sounds pretty fun!

Wow, I ran into a 12 Tornado gang 3 jumps out from Jita last night. Wasn't expecting that at all. I had 200 million worth of datacores on me, but I was flying a cloaked Crane, and got by them easily.

Was a surprise though, geeze. I always fly cloaked (in my Crane) when I'm carrying more than the value of a replacement ship.

Aw, c'mon, that's just not fair!! People should just be able to max out their mining skillz and not have to worry about any other skillz in this game!!! EveO needz some more nerfing!! No shooting at anyone without written prior consent!! Consentual peeveepee only, demmit!!!


(ps: let's see how many idjuts think I'm serious)

I see suicide ganking as a mechanism for making EVE playerbase stronger and healthier.
Those who are too fat and lazy are culled, the rest survive by learning and adapting - becoming stronger.

Understandably, the cattle doesn't like to have wolfs following them around, but those wolfs actually help the herd remain healthy and get plenty of exercise. They don't realize it's good for them, but that's OK as long as CCP knows

The only problem I see here is the Orca tricks such as unfitted of expensive mods before CONCORD kills

Aw, c'mon, that's just not fair!! People should just be able to max out their mining skillz and not have to worry about any other skillz in this game!!! EveO needz some more nerfing!! No shooting at anyone without written prior consent!! Consentual peeveepee only, demmit!!!


(ps: let's see how many idjuts think I'm serious)

Tell me have you ever tried to get an order for Zyd or Mega filled in Dodixie? It isn't a fun experience.

Low end minerals move through local hubs at descent volume. High ends, forget about it. Lets not even go into the prices of T2 components at secondary hubs. The bottom line is that for many mats the only viable market is Jita.

EVE is a game where EVERYTHING is supposed to be a form of pvp, if its killing someone, or mining the rocks out from under them, or undercutting their prices on the markets.

Essentially, any activity you can thing of with no risk and no competition does not belong in eve(Ice mining is the biggest thing that comes to mind, what with the fact that the floating ice blocks spew forth infinite cubes of frozen fuel, followed by mission running, 2 things most ganked) and most things, when looked at as a pvp activity instead of mindless grinding for more isk, are much more profitable.

If you don't like pvp, get out of eve, because thats all there is supposed to be in this game, even if it is competition over resources and not direct ganking(which is a resource denial tool)

Tell me have you ever tried to get an order for Zyd or Mega filled in Dodixie? It isn't a fun experience.

Low end minerals move through local hubs at descent volume. High ends, forget about it. Lets not even go into the prices of T2 components at secondary hubs. The bottom line is that for many mats the only viable market is Jita.

For pvp to happen in eve, you need ships exploding, simple as.

For pvp to happen in eve, you need ships exploding, simple as.

Not true, you can put up buy-orders somewhere out of Jita with a higher price then those in Jita. Then people will ship it too you.

You do know markets are based on supply and demand. If you demand stuff at a certain station and the price is right, they suppliers will move it too your station and not Jita.

Mainly people are just buying and selling in Jita because they are lazy and know Jita is market heaven. But if you want rare mineral, just set up buy orders above Jita prices on the border with low-sec/0.0 and people will supply you, null-sec people already take time off to ship it to empire. They will be happy if it means only having to go 1 jump into high-sec instead of a long trip to Jita as it means they can be back in 0.0 doing fun stuff sooner

Thanks for your stupid opinion, but the fact is your opinion is stupid. PvP is anything where you are competing against another player. Highsec is filled with market PvP. It's very high stakes. The OP is asking for shelter from the consequences of that.

Not what I'm saying at all. Actually I'm saying two things.
1) The level of ship scanning going on is absolutely ridiculous. This has gone from color to crime wave.
2) Eventually the invisible hand is going to beat the eve market senseless and leave it bleeding in a ditch unless something is done to bring down transaction costs.

To this I should add point 3)
If transaction costs do not decrease hyperinflation will continue until PvP in its multiple forms becomes unsupportable. This is the market imparting the RL lesson that lawlessness is a bad thing on your skull. Only by having a special area with hardcoded protections is PvP able to exist. If there were not systemically safe areas the risk premium for goods would render PvP economically unfeasible. (And the failure of EvE along with almost every other unrestricted PvP game out there would become somebodies economics dissertation). By having a safe area with reasonably easy access from unsafe areas, PvP using items built at the safe area price becomes economically possible.

So no I don't hate PvP. I just think most PvPers would cut their own economics throats for a killmail, even if it resulted in null/WH becoming the wasteland the lowsec is.

BTW your alliances (for the Goon poster) holds spaces because other alliances did not understand risk premiums and put price controls on their markets.

(stuff)

lol... the funniest part of this whole thread is people treating suicide ganking like it's a form of PvP, or for that matter, combat. I can't tell you how many times my Tornado has had Obelisks shoot back... I really can't. Really. xD

There are tons of players that live in high sec, and enjoy playing eve for all the things that aren't pvp. Remember the term "pvp" isn't unique to eve. Its a term used in all mmo's to describe situations where players are fighting against players.

I've got friends that dont even undock, as crazy as that sounds, prefectly happy playing the market and making insane spreadsheets to add their crazy-high isk levels.

For pvp to happen in eve, you need ships exploding, simple as.

Not what I'm saying at all. Actually I'm saying two things.
1) The level of ship scanning going on is absolutely ridiculous. This has gone from color to crime wave.

lol... the funniest part of this whole thread is people treating suicide ganking like it's a form of PvP, or for that matter, combat. I can't tell you how many times my Tornado has had Obelisks shoot back... I really can't. Really. xD

Highsec is a PvP arena, so why should they have to leave to get some?

So those aren't players piloting those Obelisks? If not then CCP has a much bigger botting problem than they realize.

High sec neutral suicide is the only 1 to 3 man PvP left in EVE. Bring anything smaller than a 20 man to low sec or null sec and it's less about PvP and more about evasion. I don't much care if they lock me to be honest. It would be nice to rig a ship to counter scanning though. That's where smuggling comes in to play in EVE. Smuggling that never really came about.

The blob vs blob has been understood and dealt with, by most other PvP games. EvE has no controlled "battlegrounds" or game facilities where top corps can prove themselves and get prizes / brags. The only one is the yearly tournament.

See how cool it would be if such thing was always available, maybe with an ELO-derived system? And the top corps end up being the one chosen for the official EvE tournament.

I've handled high end moon mineral sales for a 0.0 corp before. Your small buy order isn't enough to change the course of a dyspo freighter over. Besides those minerals are simply landing (one jump in), they are being JFed to a quite low sec entry system and scouted through a back route to Jita. Once they arrive they're getting dumped on a Jita buy order, the profit booked, and any amounts due the alliance paid.

I suppose some guys running a mining alt might drop Zyd on your buy orders. Really though nobody is rerouting a high end hauler for your small buy orders. Those things go like a bat out of hell for Jita.

Also buying significantly over market does not help the inflation problem in EvE.

actually, that's considered an exploit - if you get a GCC in highsec and manage to avoid losing your ship, the GMs will lay the banhammer pretty quick.

Yeah ive heard this arguement many, many times, and completely disagree. There are tons of players that live in high sec, and enjoy playing eve for all the things that aren't pvp. Remember the term "pvp" isn't unique to eve. Its a term used in all mmo's to describe situations where players are fighting against players. Whereas its true that eve is unique in the sense that everything is player driven, such as the economy, that doesnt mean that everyone is doing pvp similtaniously all the time. I've got friends that dont even undock, as crazy as that sounds, prefectly happy playing the market and making insane spreadsheets to add their crazy-high isk levels. He laughs at such arguments, saying how awesome he is at pvp everytime he makes a bunch of mining vessles.

For pvp to happen in eve, you need ships exploding, simple as. Its the mentaility of low and null-sec players constantly screaming "pvp only game!" while blowing up mostly defenceless targets in high-sec that have no interest in that side of the game that is ultimately harming eve's growth. What reason do carebears have to naturally advance to other areas under these circumstances?

I guess you guys argue so strongly to justify these actions because you love their tears, cause it makes you easy isk, and they they dont tend to shoot back. Well i guess you can give yourself a nice big pat on the back for being so awesome.

Personally i think eve is awesome because it allows both sides of this agreument to enjoy the game. Who cares what makes you love eve, as long as you keep playing and paying. But many people on these forums seem determined to attack those that dont share their narrow view of eve.

And no, as usual, i have to put in the standard "im not a carebear living in empire" addition, just to avoid flamage. Personally, i love a bit of pvp!

Hmm, my understanding was it was semi-legit, as long as you got blown up in SOMETHING while CONCORD chased ya.

Might want to check with a GM if I ever do decide to go ganking on that one, my orca alt will be heartbroken.