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Does FW obsolete PvP alliances?

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Captain Shocker eXtended Corporation 24	Posted - 2008.06.17 22:46:00 - [61] Originally by: JeremyCrow Edited by: JeremyCrow on 17/06/2008 22:42:35 I think in the near future you'll have the opposite migration... carebear players who tasted PVP and find that FW is kinda pointless (besides the huge instant fun) and migrate to a 0.0 alliance to fight for something more palpable... so it'll even out in the end. And probably CCP already thought of this and will add some more 0.0 content in the next patches to keep the balance. Edit: I'm in the Tribal Liberation Force and I don't see it under my avatar... but I see it in a guy a few posts above. Does this mean I can't post in this forum or is it a bug? Thats the purpose of FW. First is ti get people aquanted with pvp for the potential move to 0.0. Second is if you want a break from the politics you have a place to go to keep sharp. Instead of corps trying to push into space after alliance collapse they can just milita up and then move from there.
Allister Feind V I R I I	Posted - 2008.06.17 22:48:00 - [62] everything will even out over time. people will grow tired of FW and move back out to 0.0 fights and people will leave 0.0 to try the factions. it's just another option in this game that continues to keep me paying my monthly fee for the last 5 years. my corp is fighting in FW and having the time of our lives. we have people coming back to play that have been gone or mostly gone for the last year or so. most of our guys got caught up playing FPS for the quick fix gaming. now you can get that in Eve. it can only make the game better. jake siskos favorite alt
DeathsEmbrace The Renegades Asylum	Posted - 2008.06.17 22:52:00 - [63] 00 alliances wil suffer becasue of faction warfare, simply due to the ease and aviliablity of pvp in fw. However, 00 alliances will coninue on because at the core of them are dedicated peeps that care a great deal for the control/assets that they have in 00. For them 00 is the game, low sec and empire is just a nuisence to be dealt with. For empire baised alliances that don't have the opertunities to learn and grow in eve like 00 alliances, fw will be a much larger issue because of the varitable flood of corps out of their alliances into fw. Industrial alliances will also feel this pressure as those that have spent all their eve careers industrially can finally get a chance to pew pew easily without penalties. But likewise for these alliances its time to adapt. Fw is going to unstabalise a lot of markets due to the shear volume of mods/ships lost and bought to support it. So trade and manufacturing needs are going to grow, strenghtening any of the industrial alliances that grab the cake with both hands as it were. On the same note, fw is a massive isk sink especially if you like fighting in t2 class ships. Without the 00 access that the big alliances provide there is no easy way to replace the millions even billions lost in a matter of weeks of fw. For those that have the skills or the infrastructure e.g. cap building corps/t2 production corps, this won't be an issue. What everyone is missing is that fw is effectively the end to piracy. Whilst pirate crop/alliances/players will still roam and gank whoever they can, fw is more attractive for the pvp addicted amoungst us. There is plenty of pvp, its more localised no more hours spent probing/runing low sec system hunting for targets. No more sec penalaty, meaning full empire access for logistics/isk purposes. And the ability to drop it when eve a indivdual/corp wants and go back/move on to whatever else they want to do. To become a pirate is a full time thing, you can't just quit. It takes a lot of man hours and hard work with, but especially without 00 access, to get from -10 to -1.9. With fw this is no longer the case, 24hrs and your out. The only real disadvantage to fw is the standings loss with the two factions your at war with, but in all honesty thats easier to correct/get around than sec penalties. Likewise it means that certain areas of high sec will no longer be readily availiable for travelling through, not to say they can't just that its much more dangerous to do so. Is this the end to piracy? No! The hardcore wil still continue to pirate, but the majority will move to fw and relish in the new challenges and fun it provides. As for 00 and empire baised alliances. I think 00 alliances will be tempered in the water of fw, they could even use it to train their future pvp corps. they will bleed members to it, but not in any significant no for long. Empire baised alliances will have to adapt or even use fw to grow. Or face the gradual decline of their member base to the point where they will fall apart at the seems. Most import though is that like every aspect of eve, some are fun for a while some stay fun, but very few people eve stay to one course of action for the duration of their eve careers, without ever trying and maybe even returning to other aspects of teh game. Essay over To live is to die, and to die is to give life. Thus pain is a form of euphoria.
Rebellion Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.06.17 23:00:00 - [64] Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Moon Kitten Originally by: Dianabolic Omeega's got it nailed - if you bleed pilots, it's because they want fun, who in their right mind would try and prevent that? If you alliance dies because of it, so what? Do something else. YOU do what YOU want to in the game. For ourselves, we're completely supporting our guys doing factional warfare - it's fun and it's different, fair play to them. Which faction? I think we've got guys fighting for all the factions. FW's like the non test server outlet for everyone in BoB that wants to shoot each other again just like old times. I think CCP hit it well with FW, this should have been around ages ago. Having 0.0 vets in FW militias will hopefully trickle down some of the discipline developed in 0.0 to the largely untested pilots coming from high sec. This is good. Seriously, the thought of having gangs everywhere as disciplined as our gangs will make for a fantastically challenging EVE. I can only hope it materializes soon.
Angelonico Series of Tubes	Posted - 2008.06.17 23:04:00 - [65] Answer: no. What a ridiculously stupid question.
Rajere No Trademark The OSS	Posted - 2008.06.17 23:05:00 - [66] Edited by: Rajere on 17/06/2008 23:06:34 Quote: What everyone is missing is that fw is effectively the end to piracy. Um what. 5 minutes ago I posted that my corp, No Trademark, has defacto become a Pirate Corporation, due entirely to FW and the rediculous abundance of ships to kill. Seeing a whole lot of corps/alliances that I used to see out in syndicate, now out in lowsec space doing the same thing we are, which is killing everyone indiscriminately. Also not sure how becoming Kill on Sight in Jita is easier to deal with than sec status, oh wait, they are both dealt with exactly the same, with alts in haulers. Except pirates get to kill haulers and militia corps do not. NOTR
Re Mi Funshine Unlimited	Posted - 2008.06.17 23:08:00 - [67] Originally by: Ariko Gunaris There is absolutely no growth in the numbers of the top 30 or so alliance rankings since FW was introduced. Moreover, some PvP alliances are now bleeding members and alts into FW. BoB is growing. Goons are growing. Dunno about the rest. Funshine Unlimited - An Industrial Services Corporation
Cippalippus Primus GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.06.17 23:22:00 - [68] Edited by: Cippalippus Primus on 17/06/2008 23:22:11 A lot of us are simply not interested in factional warfare. Eve, for me, is what I make out of it. Grudges, politics, strategy. That's 0.0. FW is fighting for the sake of it, which is good, but not my game. Quite simply, who is interested in player developed content will stay in 0.0, those attracted by fast pvp action or by roleplaying will go play the FW. -clp
Cautet Precision Engineering Insurgency	Posted - 2008.06.17 23:26:00 - [69] Originally by: Omeega Originally by: Butter Dog Game mechanics such as bubbles, titans, jump bridges, 30 carrier hotdrops etc are all damps on FUN pvp, and FW is very veryvery fun (so far anyway, we'll see how it develops) It's not because you've not been able to use those features CCP offered you (or didn't want to, please, it's not a personal grudge or attack) at their full extent that you should generalise and say they are damps on FUN pvp. I've yet to see something more amazing than beeing hotdropped or hotdropping a fleet, evolving with an enemy titan in system and so on. Screams, silence, orders, surprise, fear and deception, that's why I play in 0.0. Butterdog's Corp has almost 1 cap per pilot, so you are way off the mark suggesting he is not able to use the features CCP has offered. They have also run multiple pos including moon mining top-end ores and dropping deathstars fully manned against multiple enemies. Also, they have gone up against and fought alongside Titans. The Alliance his corp was in also killed a titan. All in the last few months. Just because someone has a view that a certain area of the game is not fun to them does not mean they do not understand that part of the game or are not able to take full advantage of that area. In fact, it might be that he ends up missing the end game, but equally he might not miss it at all. Some of the people heading to FW are this type of 0.0 pvper who has done it all, who accepted the pos and cap and supercap game and then faction warfare came along and for the moment at least it seems a more entertaining option. Personally, I haven't tried FW yet, but will probably use an alt at some point to try it. However, I have noticed alot of good pvpers head down that route, and they seem to be having a blast. I enjoy some elements of large scale alliance warfare but find much tediously boring, as I am sure most do. Also, most of 0.0, especially systems with soverenty are completely dead 99% of the time. I don't know the long term effects on 0.0 it may in fact lead to an increase in 0.0 pilots, or at least better trained pilots for when they go to 0.0 or it may push most pvpers out of 0.0 leaving only a dedicated core of industrialists and cap pilots. Either way, CCP thanks for adding this content, as anything that gives new options to pilots is a real bonus.
Butter Dog The Littlest Hobos	Posted - 2008.06.17 23:39:00 - [70] Edited by: Butter Dog on 17/06/2008 23:43:01 Thanks for posting that Cautet, I was thinking of saying something similar but was feeling too lazy. edit: FW reminds me of the excitement of 0.0 all over again, all those years ago... no bubbles, easy to avoid the blobs, no silly sov 3 mechanics/jump bridges... I'm sorry to say that I think the more content CCP has added to 0.0, the less fun it has become I play to have fun. Only a very few people I believe truly have fun in 0.0 - those who lead the alliances and play with the politics (if they enjoy that) yes, they will have fun... everyone else will either make isk, or roam 100 jumps desperate for some action before they get DD's / caught in dead end and jump-bridged so they log-off / come home empty handed / get chased back by a blob I'm sorry but right now 0.0 is just DULL ----------
Keeves Sexy Pirate Club	Posted - 2008.06.17 23:45:00 - [71] if any certain group is gonna hurt from this its gonna be empire based merc/pvp alliances, fringe pirate alliances, and EVE uni.
tolons mother Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2008.06.17 23:48:00 - [72] How is this going to hurt eve-u? THis seems like a perfect outlet for their pilots.
Keeves Sexy Pirate Club	Posted - 2008.06.17 23:57:00 - [73] because now there is a prime place to learn pvp... infact i know alot of pilots who left the uni just for FW.
Lilan Kahn The Littlest Hobos	Posted - 2008.06.18 00:00:00 - [74] Originally by: Keeves because now there is a prime place to learn pvp... infact i know alot of pilots who left the uni just for FW. and thats a bad thing moveing on from eve uni? "Bringing Content to you 1 round of ammo at a time"
Butter Dog The Littlest Hobos	Posted - 2008.06.18 00:07:00 - [75] Originally by: Lilan Kahn Originally by: Keeves because now there is a prime place to learn pvp... infact i know alot of pilots who left the uni just for FW. and thats a bad thing moveing on from eve uni? for eve-uni, yes, which was his point PS u fail ----------
Lilan Kahn The Littlest Hobos	Posted - 2008.06.18 00:21:00 - [76] Originally by: Butter Dog Originally by: Lilan Kahn Originally by: Keeves because now there is a prime place to learn pvp... infact i know alot of pilots who left the uni just for FW. and thats a bad thing moveing on from eve uni? for eve-uni, yes, which was his point PS u fail no you, died in a nano ship to a pilgrim how fail are you? "Bringing Content to you 1 round of ammo at a time"
rValdez5987 32nd Amarrian Imperial Navy Regiment	Posted - 2008.06.18 01:33:00 - [77] Quote: FW's like the non test server outlet for everyone in BoB that wants to shoot each other again just like old times. I think CCP hit it well with FW, this should have been around ages ago. Having 0.0 vets in FW militias will hopefully trickle down some of the discipline developed in 0.0 to the largely untested pilots coming from high sec. This is good. Seriously, the thought of having gangs everywhere as disciplined as our gangs will make for a fantastically challenging EVE. I can only hope it materializes soon. /Agree I have noticed some 0.0 players bleeding into the factions, but not the main alliances such as BoB, Goons etc. I think the guys you will see coming to FW will be from the less popular alliances such as hydra, pure, iron, etc, just players looking for something new. Either way there are quite a few good pilots, and this is good training for people before they reach 0.0. What I like so far is the absolute lack of pirates. Low sec right now feels like empire, with the exception that actual empire doesnt have 100 man fleets chasing you around in rifters, thrashers and stabbers.
Lumen Atra GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.06.18 03:00:00 - [78] In this thread we discuss the long term effects of an expansion that has been out a week.
Venomire GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.06.18 05:31:00 - [79] Originally by: Jasmine Kiri One thing you never see in you inbox if your fighting in FW: This will be an alarm clock op. I expect everyone to be in system XXXX with either a fleet fit BS or a support cruiser(Recon/Logistics). Anyone online and not in fleet must have good explanation or they WILL get kicked from corp. I don't see those now.
fugazii Deep Space Productions	Posted - 2008.06.18 07:08:00 - [80] FW seems to be 0.0 pvp of 03/04. Pure pvp, 100 ships is considered a fleet not a roaming gang, none of the forced pve (spaceholding alliance) aspects of 0.0 warfare of 05'+, no bubbles so you can fit your ships to pvp not escape a sphere, and ofc no "omg lag...omg our fleet just woke up in their clone stations". In nearly 5 years of playing I can finally say "ccp you didn't ** this up". "There is nothing they can do to counter 5000 f***g Goons logged in and ready to go." - darius JOHNSON
Krystian Luminaire Atrocity	Posted - 2008.06.18 07:13:00 - [81] Yeah they will have to actually treat their members with more than barely tolerable contempt. Lament the roles have been revoked lament.
Captain Shocker eXtended Corporation 24	Posted - 2008.06.18 07:27:00 - [82] To think.. there is a world where assets and isk are not stolen. Where cascading is not a option and fatcats do not get rich off the backs of the "common folk". yes that world is..... Not existant but fw comes te closest so meh.
Kyrie Elaison GoonFleet	Posted - 2008.06.18 08:00:00 - [83] This is a useful thread. Arghy is the one true God and Dungar is His prophet.
128th ABC123 Eve Liberation Force Liberty.	Posted - 2008.06.18 09:30:00 - [84] Originally by: Patch86 FW is CounterStrike- cheap, fun, instant and meaningless. Alliance warfare is Civilization- empire building, diplomacy, large scale strategy, with added pew pew and multiplayer fun. They're both fine for what they're fine at, but they're not the same. The people who are drawn to Alliance warfare will still be drawn to Alliance warfare. And if anything, a bit of relief on the numbers of people entering Alliance warfare could be a good thing; 0.0 has been getting more and more crowded and difficult to get in to as the years have gone by, and will continue to get so for as long as EVE's player base increases. Giving players an excuse to PvP in the largely deserted low-sec space is a great way of spreading players about. Agreed. If you've built your little empire from scratch through blood sweat and tears, then the fights become more meaningfull the struggle etc. FW seems fun and I definitly need to get an alt in there to taste some of it, but I do not think it could hold my interest as long as running my corp/alliance has. It will definitly have a large appeal to the younger crowd that has less interest in the "boring" stuff (read short attention span and no flame to our younger players, I was like that too at 16) and just wants to shoot.
Tilta GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.06.18 09:54:00 - [85] Originally by: Lumen Atra In this thread we discuss the long term effects of an expansion that has been out a week. Seriously. People will optimize their tactics given time, but do continue having a blast in the meanwhile. Originally by: Captain Shocker Agreed. The assumption that everyone in FW is on a 14 day trial and doesnt know what hardeners do is false. I think your giving alot of null sec pvpers alot of credit without warrant. True story: Darius JOHNSON, presently CEO of GoonFleet and CSM delegate extraordinaire discovered, hilariously late, that active hardeners are so named because you have to activate them. I think he might've had a character in a Moros by then...
Cautet Precision Engineering Insurgency	Posted - 2008.06.18 09:55:00 - [86] The people who are suggesting FW is abit too shallow for them really need to lose the following misconceptions: A. players who like faction warfare don't understand 0.0 warfare or are not very good at it. B. players who like faction warfare must be under the age of 16. 0.0 was the end game, and the only real choice for pvpers for a long time. But most of the time 0.0 is not pvp. It is sitting in pos', refueling pos', repping pos', killing pos', fighter lag, numbers lag, cyno chains, mineral chains, alarm clock ops, etc. For large wars it's months of 8 hour days filled with sitting in a pos or at a gate and not fighting, or pos repping, or pos killing. It's not really pvp and it's not really that fun to most people. Especialy those with wives, children, and full-time jobs, which is why alliances bleed active players the moment there is a decent war on. The rewards of space holding are also pretty slim for the average player. Just looking at the amounts of isk lost in the average war and compare to the amounts of isk made from top end moons, and you see that these amounts cannot be recouped from winning, but rather from individual players either grinding rats or from GTC's. Maybe FW will in the end lead to an improvement of 0.0, even if it just means less numbers in 0.0 Alliances, but those numbers being people who really want to be there.
D2O HeavyWater D00M.	Posted - 2008.06.18 10:07:00 - [87] I think the starter of the post has a very valid point. I have been trying out FW with my alt, and I gotta say it's superb for a PvP starter or vetran. Unlike a 0.0 alliance there are no commitments, u play when u feel like it, you do what you want to do. No pos bashing, no camping a gate for days on end, no silly 300 vs 300 lag fests & no threat of being booted if you dont turn up on a specific time & date. After 1 week trial with my alt I have removed my R&R with my mains and from tomorrow I will form my own corp to do FW for the forseeable future. FW will effect 0.0 alliances but it will be for the better, it helps to spread the PvP population of eve over the whole of eden not just pockets of 0.0. In preparing for battle I have always found that plans are useless, but planning is indispensable.
The Wounded Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2008.06.18 10:31:00 - [88] No Shortest answer possible on the title
Waagaa Ktlehr Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.06.18 12:19:00 - [89] If FW would be better than what BoB has to offer I'd have never left the MC and/or joined a group like TRI/PL or some other roaming/ganking group. FW is a bit like counterstrike or WoW Battlegrounds, low risk PvP which you can easily hop in and out of without much consequence. - -
Nyack GREY COUNCIL Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2008.06.18 12:23:00 - [90] teh only thing that might effect 0,0 alliances is that they will not get war dec that much. with FW you can find fun pvp in empire without having to war dec people

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