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Grath Telkin
Evolving Paradigms
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Posted - 2008.06.26 20:34:00 -
[211]
Originally by: Pithecanthropus
Originally by: Tenuo tl;dr on this thread:
People who can't pvp for **** stomping in the ground yelling for ccp to nerf a legit playstyle while making up numbers to prove their point.
I won't bother anymore, it's to no use.
So are you saying we should all fly nano speedtanks? BORRRRRRRRRRRRRRING.
Your pewny minnie mind can comprehend the big pictures. It's not about pvp talents, its pure factual damage intake when you compare shield/armor tanks to speedtanks. Take out the other fancy elements you want us to counter your nano with, and explain to me how the 3 tank styles match up? tanks vs dps... straight to the point.
You'll see in the end to win against nanos you ahve to bring far more elements to pop them, if... if they don't run. So its quite the annoyance... the same annoyance you pvp griefers whined when people warp stabbed. See the irony?
all we see is you ignoring facts and rambling. refute one of the facts in any one of the 1000000000 threads you dbags have barraged the forums with, and MAYBE, somebody will take you seriuosly.
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Spineker
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.06.26 20:34:00 -
[212]
Edited by: Spineker on 26/06/2008 20:35:22
Originally by: Grath Telkin Edited by: Grath Telkin on 26/06/2008 20:28:02
Originally by: Spineker
I find it pathetic that the best argument being made by nano-lovers is the sixth grade mentality of "You just can't pvp loser"
i find it pathetic that you ignore every logical argument, and fact, and stomp around with a 4th grade mentality of "I WANT MY WAY!!"
Have you ever made a logical argument? Who are you again? Oh no body thanks for checking in.
I have tried logic and get called a moron or a noob that is the mentality of people who need over-powered ships to compete. They are losers.
Originally by: Spineker
Get a life and learn some tactics besides go fast cowards. Flavor of the month cookie cutter unoriginal I am too scared to go toe to toe with skillz pussies.
So it takes skills to lock a target and jam the f keys? who would've known.
Not you obviously just another parrot without a clue whatsoever.
Quote: Also, why is it cool for you to tell us to learn new tactics, but when presented with the same challenge yourself, you cry foul.
because if you could read and understand formating of internet forum you will know I was throwing back at you the ******** arguments your side makes. If it isn't Caldari are stupid or moron or no skill carebear it is some other stupid comment you people make.
It is pretty pathetic the argument I made wasn't it? Well now you know what the majority of Nanofags make up in the debate.
Quote: Also, most nano pilots can tank the crap outa anything they want, just sayin. The money we put in speed mods, you really don't want spent on uber tanks, i can promise you.
Also, just fyi, your an idiot, there are plenty of Nano cerbs, many fitting FOF missiles to deal with jammers and webbers. Go down to Stain, tell them Caldari Hac's don't nano, I'll meet you in your clone home station to debate it after Creamster pod's the crap out of you
Nano cerb and your calling me an idiot. Go look at your ship in the hanger obviously you don't fight with it.
last Cerb nano I ran into was Murph Dog of Invicta and he got a one way trip back to his clone while smack talking in local about killing our noobs.
Creamsters? WTF I was pvp'ing before most of your noobs even heard of this game.
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Tenuo
Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2008.06.26 20:34:00 -
[213]
Originally by: *****zilla
Originally by: Haakelen Seriously, how can you even justify the existence of HACs if they can't go fast? They are completely outclassed for any other use.
Mobility, agility. Nanos would still be faster than say a Myrm, but they would be more vulnerable. So for up close fighting a Myrm would be better. For roaming and jumping from system to system, or for maneuvering on a grid the hac would be better. Not much change from now.
I'm not saying to nerf the speed of hac (except in extreme cases). There is a boundary of around 4km/s where a ship becomes a great nano candidate. Adjust this boundary. Modify the web so that with a script a non nano can adjust that boundary for the nano.
Originally by: Haakelen
If your brilliant plan of 'All the bonuses Recons get should be applied to Tech 1 cruisers', then Recons would be completely outclassed, too.
There should be or is t1 options for t2 bonuses. The t2 stuff is better however the t1 should be an option. A blackbird jams fine, a falcon/rook better. Damps work better on lachesis/arazu. etc.
The Hyena can jam fine, but the Huginn/Rapier better. There should be a t1 version of the hyena. Or a modified web with a similiar but weak effect.
So even though the blackbird can jam, the falcon might be much more expensive but it is a better option.
I'd never, ever pay that much to get that bit of speed and mobility when we're playing eve in headbash mode, besides, active tanks suck royally for gangs and HACs are **** at RR gangs and plated they loose ALOT of grid and said mobility/agility. _______________________________________________________________________________ EVE Online: The Hand-holding Age The truth about balance is that it doesn't exist. |

Haakelen
Force d'action navale
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Posted - 2008.06.26 20:34:00 -
[214]
What you fail to realize, guy from SMASH, is that the Hyena WAS CCP's answer to nanos. If you CBA to do two weeks of training to achieve a new goal, you aren't cut out for this game. The entire point of the skill system is to prevent people from being able to do every single thing very easily without any dedication in skill time.
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Tenuo
Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2008.06.26 20:36:00 -
[215]
Originally by: Spineker Edited by: Spineker on 26/06/2008 20:35:22
Originally by: Grath Telkin Edited by: Grath Telkin on 26/06/2008 20:28:02
Originally by: Spineker
I find it pathetic that the best argument being made by nano-lovers is the sixth grade mentality of "You just can't pvp loser"
i find it pathetic that you ignore every logical argument, and fact, and stomp around with a 4th grade mentality of "I WANT MY WAY!!"
Have you ever made a logical argument? Who are you again? Oh no body thanks for checking in.
I have tried logic and get called a moron or a noob that is the mentality of people who need over-powered ships to compete. They are losers.
Originally by: Spineker
Get a life and learn some tactics besides go fast cowards. Flavor of the month cookie cutter unoriginal I am too scared to go toe to toe with skillz pussies.
So it takes skills to lock a target and jam the f keys? who would've known.
Not you obviously just another parrot without a clue whatsoever.
Quote: Also, why is it cool for you to tell us to learn new tactics, but when presented with the same challenge yourself, you cry foul.
because if you could read and understand formating of internet forum you will know I was throwing back at you the ******** arguments your side makes. If it isn't Caldari are stupid or moron or no skill carebear it is some other stupid comment you people make.
It is pretty pathetic the argument I made wasn't it? Well now you know what the majority of Nanofags make up in the debate.
Quote: Also, most nano pilots can tank the crap outa anything they want, just sayin. The money we put in speed mods, you really don't want spent on uber tanks, i can promise you.
Also, just fyi, your an idiot, there are plenty of Nano cerbs, many fitting FOF missiles to deal with jammers and webbers. Go down to Stain, tell them Caldari Hac's don't nano, I'll meet you in your clone home station to debate it after Creamster pod's the crap out of you
Nano cerb and your calling me an idiot. Go look at your ship in the hanger obviously you don't fight with it.
last Cerb nano I ran into was Murph Dog of Invicta and he got a one way trip back to his clone while smack talking in local about killing our noobs.
Creamsters? WTF I was pvp'ing before most of your noobs even heard of this game.
JESUS ******* CHRIST YOU KILLED A NANO THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE THEY'RE INVINCIBLE! W T F!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! _______________________________________________________________________________ EVE Online: The Hand-holding Age The truth about balance is that it doesn't exist. |

Spineker
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.06.26 20:38:00 -
[216]
Originally by: Tenuo
JESUS ******* CHRIST YOU KILLED A NANO THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE THEY'RE INVINCIBLE! W T F!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have killed several no one ever said they were impossible to kill just very difficult.
Also I didn't kill a Nano I killed a Cerb pretending to be a nano or we did.
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Crackzilla
The Shadow Order SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.26 20:38:00 -
[217]
Edited by: *****zilla on 26/06/2008 20:40:25
Originally by: Foocurr Actually, I am now sure you mean to speak of value, not utility. As in utility, all ships in the game have practical uses. As in value, some ships have more bang for the buck and are less specialized such as battleships. You pay a lot more for a HAC or a recon that performs well at a specific role.
Hmmm. Can't say I'm an expert in economics but here goes. I could be wrong *shrug*.
What I remember is that utility refers to the satisfaction in usage. So to compare the bang for the buck would be to look at the relative utility.
Value would refer to relative desirability and what one would trade. So while the Blackbird would have a lower but similiar utility to a Falcon, the Falcon would have much higher value.
If the Falcon weren't that much more desired then a Blackbird would make more sense as it offers better utility for the isk.
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Tenuo
Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2008.06.26 20:39:00 -
[218]
Originally by: Pithecanthropus
Originally by: Tenuo tl;dr on this thread:
People who can't pvp for **** stomping in the ground yelling for ccp to nerf a legit playstyle while making up numbers to prove their point.
I won't bother anymore, it's to no use.
So are you saying we should all fly nano speedtanks? BORRRRRRRRRRRRRRING.
Your pewny minnie mind can comprehend the big pictures. It's not about pvp talents, its pure factual damage intake when you compare shield/armor tanks to speedtanks. Take out the other fancy elements you want us to counter your nano with, and explain to me how the 3 tank styles match up? tanks vs dps... straight to the point.
You'll see in the end to win against nanos you ahve to bring far more elements to pop them, if... if they don't run. So its quite the annoyance... the same annoyance you pvp griefers whined when people warp stabbed. See the irony?
YOU'VE OBVIOUSLY NOT READ THE REST OF MY POSTS YOU IGNORANT DOUCHEBAG!
EVERY SINGLE "NANOFAG" ALLIANCE USE BATTLESHIPS AND OTHER NON NANO SHIPS ALOT, NANOSHIPS ARE SPECIALIZED AND NOT ALL PURPOSE AND ONLY WORKS FOR CERTAIN THINGS, GET THAT IN TO YOUR ******* SKULL RIGHT NOW!
ALSO PLEASE READ THROUGH THE POST WHERE I WITH HARD DATA TOTALLY SHOOT DOWN YOUR "INVINCIBLE TO NANO" ARGUMENT.
YOU DONT GET IT
YOU NEVER WILL
STOP ******* POSTING
I'm putting my posting privileges on the line with this post but it seems to be the only thing ever getting through to your skull. _______________________________________________________________________________ EVE Online: The Hand-holding Age The truth about balance is that it doesn't exist. |

Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2008.06.26 20:41:00 -
[219]
Originally by: FORD ESC0RT Everyone knows there's a problem with speed in EVE, but which ships are the most overpowered when nanod? Here's my list:
nano-vagabond - 6km/sec 500 dps nano-ishtar - 5km/sec 475 dps - NO TRACKING ISSUES and can perma-run mwd nano-sacrilege - 4km/sec 500 dps - also no tracking problems nano-curse -3.5km/sec - 300 dps - no tracking issues and can drain a battleship cap in a few cycles... not overpowered? yeah right nano-huginn - 4km/sec 355 DPS and 40KM WEBS... wtf.
Most the gangs that field these ships have snake implants or a claymore pilot off grid so add another 2000m/sec to their total max speeds. Even if they remove POLYCARBONS these ships will still be imbalanced. What we really need is 85% 24km webs, remove polycarbons, and add a major stacking penality to all velocity hardwirings and implants. MWD weren't designed to avoid damage they were made to get in range. It doesn't matter if heavy missiles are boosted, nano is the new WCS. Imbalanced is when there are ships that can't be hit by guns, can't be hit by missiles, and never die because they can retreat like cowards at any time. If you can't stop them how do you kill them? Training for a rapier/huginn is not the asnwer.
no nano zealot love? 
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Foocurr
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Posted - 2008.06.26 20:42:00 -
[220]
Originally by: Spineker
Then uhhh what happened to Caldari exactly?
What do you mean? Great hacs, if you use them correctly and have the skills to get the most out of them(specialize).
Originally by: Spineker Oh and besides one or two HACS ARE NOT SUPPOSE TO GO FAST. Read Heavy Assault Cruiser. As in assault not run away at speeds that should rip a heavy ship apart. HACS should never go at these ridiculous speeds period.
Synonyms of "Assault"(not that your argument is relevant): aggression, assailment, attack, attempt, offense, offensive, onrush, onset, onslaught, strike
Originally by: Spineker I find it pathetic that the best argument being made by nano-lovers is the sixth grade mentality of "You just can't pvp loser"
I mean on the scale of debate that is seriously less then 1 about the dumbest **** I ever heard.
"Get some experience noobs"
When I was new to PVP, I got ganked by players superior in experience all the time. Now, I don't.
Originally by: Spineker Get a life and learn some tactics besides go fast cowards. Flavor of the month cookie cutter unoriginal I am too scared to go toe to toe with skillz wussies.
Oh look I have my get out of jail free ship. I fight who and when I want and I can just run away without fear.
For me to fight a nano people expect me to have 5 buddies in inties, falcons, dps.
Nano-ships are really only useful for ganking morons who dont know what the **** they are doing. Meet someone who has some actually experience and you may be in trouble of losing your expensive setup/ship.
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Pithecanthropus
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Posted - 2008.06.26 20:44:00 -
[221]
Originally by: Grath Telkin
all we see is you ignoring facts and rambling. refute one of the facts in any one of the 1000000000 threads you dbags have barraged the forums with, and MAYBE, somebody will take you seriuosly.
what facts? that speedtanks are overpowered? I admit that one. I'm not ignoring anything. You all seem to whine more and more about being pro-nano, and all you can say is for the anti-nanos to bring more and more elements and learn to pvp. so i broke it down... and no one here can justify the overpower of nanos when its pure tanks vs dps.
that alone shows an imbalance. can you refute that? no... which is why no one has tried.
/me takes a bow. --------------------------------- Pithecanthropus erectus, a name derived from Greek and Latin roots meaning upright ape-man. |

Destr0math
Tritanium Workers Union
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Posted - 2008.06.26 20:44:00 -
[222]
Edited by: Destr0math on 26/06/2008 20:44:50 Edited by: Destr0math on 26/06/2008 20:44:38 Edited by: Destr0math on 26/06/2008 20:44:21
Originally by: Tenuo
YOU DONT GET IT
YOU NEVER WILL
STOP ******* POSTING
quoting the **** out of this ----
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Tenuo
Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2008.06.26 20:46:00 -
[223]
Originally by: Pithecanthropus
Originally by: Grath Telkin
all we see is you ignoring facts and rambling. refute one of the facts in any one of the 1000000000 threads you dbags have barraged the forums with, and MAYBE, somebody will take you seriuosly.
what facts? that speedtanks are overpowered? I admit that one. I'm not ignoring anything. You all seem to whine more and more about being pro-nano, and all you can say is for the anti-nanos to bring more and more elements and learn to pvp. so i broke it down... and no one here can justify the overpower of nanos when its pure tanks vs dps.
that alone shows an imbalance. can you refute that? no... which is why no one has tried.
/me takes a bow.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=806494&page=1#25
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=806494&page=3#73
read them
you clearly havent
you are full of bull**** _______________________________________________________________________________ EVE Online: The Hand-holding Age The truth about balance is that it doesn't exist. |

NightmareX
MAFIA Pirate Coalition
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Posted - 2008.06.26 20:47:00 -
[224]
Edited by: NightmareX on 26/06/2008 20:53:58 *****zilla, how many peoples need to tell you that your idea simply makes HAC's obsolete?, and can just be removed from game if it will be changed the way you want it. Do 1 guy need to tell you it, or maybe 10, or maybe 1 million?, oh wait, you don't get it anyways, no point by telling you anything.
Not sure on how many that have told you that, your ideas for HAC's suck more than anything else in this EVE forum.
And to the OP, go and use your mining barge, it's where you belong.
ANY topics about nanos that are started from any alts, 1-2 man corps or any Smash Alliance members will be taken as a whine and about how much failure the op in that topic will be then.
HAC's, nanos and ships that are meant to go fast ARE FINE. END OF STORY.
We have told you like 1 billion times why they are fine, and have also given you facts and links to everything that prove that HAC's and fast ships that are meant to go fast are fine, but you just ignore it and say yadda yadda, i'm a noob and i don't want to train ANY skills and don't want to do anything about it to be able to defeat them.
And what happen then, yes topic like this. Asking CCP to hold you hand and let them kill them for you.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2008.06.26 20:53:00 -
[225]
hai guys! lets to pos shooting with our nanos!!!!!
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Blind Man
Point Blank Carebears
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Posted - 2008.06.26 20:54:00 -
[226]
haev u guys herd that i liek mudkipz ╟
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Foocurr
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Posted - 2008.06.26 20:54:00 -
[227]
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton hai guys! lets to pos shooting with our nanos!!!!!
ofc, theres no reason to fly anything else!!!
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Tenuo
Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2008.06.26 20:57:00 -
[228]
Originally by: Foocurr
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton hai guys! lets to pos shooting with our nanos!!!!!
ofc, theres no reason to fly anything else!!!
nop, tanks ddds too, killed a titan in this last night lolol. _______________________________________________________________________________ EVE Online: The Hand-holding Age The truth about balance is that it doesn't exist. |

Tippia
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.06.26 20:59:00 -
[229]
Originally by: Tenuo
Originally by: Foocurr
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton hai guys! lets to pos shooting with our nanos!!!!!
ofc, theres no reason to fly anything else!!!
nop, tanks ddds too, killed a titan in this last night lolol.
Silly nubs! They should have nano:ed that Titan – then it would have been unkillable!
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Foocurr
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Posted - 2008.06.26 21:00:00 -
[230]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Tenuo
Originally by: Foocurr
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton hai guys! lets to pos shooting with our nanos!!!!!
ofc, theres no reason to fly anything else!!!
nop, tanks ddds too, killed a titan in this last night lolol.
Silly nubs! They should have nano:ed that Titan û then it would have been unkillable!
seriously GET SOME EXPERIENCE NOOBS!!!!!!!111
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Tenuo
Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2008.06.26 21:01:00 -
[231]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Tenuo
Originally by: Foocurr
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton hai guys! lets to pos shooting with our nanos!!!!!
ofc, theres no reason to fly anything else!!!
nop, tanks ddds too, killed a titan in this last night lolol.
Silly nubs! They should have nano:ed that Titan û then it would have been unkillable!
yes, you can get a ******* titan to go 1000m/s! NERF! Only the minmatar one so you'll have to train minmatar just like with recons. _______________________________________________________________________________ EVE Online: The Hand-holding Age The truth about balance is that it doesn't exist. |

Pithecanthropus
|
Posted - 2008.06.26 21:01:00 -
[232]
Originally by: Tenuo
]YOU DONT GET IT
YOU NEVER WILL
STOP ******* POSTING
I'm putting my posting privileges on the line with this post but it seems to be the only thing ever getting through to your skull.
I have every right to post... and you proved nothing. Take this to sisi and show me who would dominate. Your charts and graphs prove not a damn thing unless someone has optimal range. Let's face it... you have no argument for the effects of speedtankers vs shield/armor... speed simply rules. pure damage vs pure tanks. why you are getting mad is beyond me. and I could care less what ships are specialized for. Nanos are simply overpowered... period. all this counter talk, counter this, use that, learn this, train that, skill more, be a better pvper... thats a joke, its stretching for excuses... and you my friend have ran out. so please stop posting, and stop posting about me to stop posting. cuz in the back of my mind, when you get mad, not only have i won th nano debate, but i also won against you.  --------------------------------- Pithecanthropus erectus, a name derived from Greek and Latin roots meaning upright ape-man. |

Haakelen
Force d'action navale
|
Posted - 2008.06.26 21:02:00 -
[233]
Originally by: Tenuo
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Tenuo
Originally by: Foocurr
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton hai guys! lets to pos shooting with our nanos!!!!!
ofc, theres no reason to fly anything else!!!
nop, tanks ddds too, killed a titan in this last night lolol.
Silly nubs! They should have nano:ed that Titan û then it would have been unkillable!
yes, you can get a ******* titan to go 1000m/s! NERF! Only the minmatar one so you'll have to train minmatar just like with recons.
WHAT ABOUT CALDARI
CITADEL TORPS DO NOT HAVE A HIGH ENOUGH EXPLOSION VELOCITY
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Tamia Clant
New Dawn Corp New Eden Research
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Posted - 2008.06.26 21:02:00 -
[234]
Originally by: Tenuo
Originally by: Pithecanthropus what facts? that speedtanks are overpowered? I admit that one. I'm not ignoring anything. You all seem to whine more and more about being pro-nano, and all you can say is for the anti-nanos to bring more and more elements and learn to pvp. so i broke it down... and no one here can justify the overpower of nanos when its pure tanks vs dps.
that alone shows an imbalance. can you refute that? no... which is why no one has tried.
/me takes a bow.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=806494&page=1#25
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=806494&page=3#73
read them
you clearly havent
you are full of bull****
I don't think there's any point on insisting Tenuo, the guy is a complete idiot and will ignore any proof that nanoships are easy to kill.
Looking for queue-free research slots? Click here!
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Destr0math
Tritanium Workers Union
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Posted - 2008.06.26 21:03:00 -
[235]
no, u ----
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Tippia
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.06.26 21:03:00 -
[236]
Originally by: Pithecanthropus cuz in the back of my mind, when you get mad, not only have i won th nano debate, but i also won against you. 
Good for you.
Meanwhile, in the real world, you need to present cogent arguments to win a debate.
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Spineker
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.06.26 21:03:00 -
[237]
Originally by: Foocurr
What do you mean? Great hacs, if you use them correctly and have the skills to get the most out of them(specialize).
Uhh duh? Is that the extent of your knowledge?
Originally by: Spineker Oh and besides one or two HACS ARE NOT SUPPOSE TO GO FAST. Read Heavy Assault Cruiser. As in assault not run away at speeds that should rip a heavy ship apart. HACS should never go at these ridiculous speeds period.
Synonyms of "Assault"(not that your argument is relevant): aggression, assailment, attack, attempt, offense, offensive, onrush, onset, onslaught, strike
My argument is ABSOLUTELY relevant. HACS are designed for the main role of attacking they get bounus for ATTACKING Not running away.
You have absolutely no clue what you are talking about none. Your just a bandwagon follower.
Quote: Nano-ships are really only useful for ganking morons who dont know what the **** they are doing. Meet someone who has some actually experience and you may be in trouble of losing your expensive setup/ship.
Of course that must be why you need an inty and 2 or 3 ******* falcons to kill one as the Nanofags themselves claim.
I have more experience then you will know about any of this. I can fly a nanotar I don't need your lack of understanding on this subject for anything.
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Tenuo
Native Freshfood
|
Posted - 2008.06.26 21:03:00 -
[238]
Originally by: Pithecanthropus
Originally by: Tenuo
]YOU DONT GET IT
YOU NEVER WILL
STOP ******* POSTING
I'm putting my posting privileges on the line with this post but it seems to be the only thing ever getting through to your skull.
i don't know ****
fyp. _______________________________________________________________________________ EVE Online: The Hand-holding Age The truth about balance is that it doesn't exist. |

Banjo String
|
Posted - 2008.06.26 21:03:00 -
[239]
OMG, there must be something about nano's ccp should look at to warrant quite so much crap being flung everywhere?
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Pithecanthropus
|
Posted - 2008.06.26 21:06:00 -
[240]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Pithecanthropus cuz in the back of my mind, when you get mad, not only have i won th nano debate, but i also won against you. 
Good for you.
Meanwhile, in the real world, you need to present cogent arguments to win a debate.
go and challenge me scenario... and if you don't know what i'm talking about, take time to read a thread. then come back with one liners. i challenge anyone. I've been in fleet with numerous turrets and missiles aiming for a nano... yet you're lucky if you get past 50% shield. you try that on an armor or shield tank, and they dead.
this is the real world, and I'm schooling all of you today. --------------------------------- Pithecanthropus erectus, a name derived from Greek and Latin roots meaning upright ape-man. |
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