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Foocurr
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Posted - 2008.07.01 21:53:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Delencia Lakat One thing, this thread is supposed to be about a solo Crusader setup. Saying "Well this wins in inty vs. inty" or "This wins in inty vs. hauler" doesn't mean ****. He's looking for one that's got some flexibility AND can take down other inties if flown well.
so you're saying to contribute to this thread, we should not contribute? ******.
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Foocurr
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Posted - 2008.07.01 21:54:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Delencia Lakat Because yes, if you want to go to specifics like "My X beats your Y" we might as well just say "My rapier can stop your inty and my dictor can bubble him up and we can kill your Y"
dude, go wash out your vagina somewhere else.
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Foocurr
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Posted - 2008.07.01 21:55:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Foocurr on 01/07/2008 21:54:54
Originally by: Caelum Dominus Edited by: Caelum Dominus on 01/07/2008 21:50:11
Originally by: Foocurr wait, you're saying it doesn't go that fast or you're saying it can't dictate transversal?
That it doesn't go that fast with 3% rogues, two speeds mods and no rigs. It's not even going to push 7km/s.
EDIT: A visit to EFT later, it does 6.7km/s (and that's including Zor's).
well you may have missed the gistii b-type in my setup.
and i was including zor's
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Lili Killer
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Posted - 2008.07.01 21:56:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Delencia Lakat One thing, this thread is supposed to be about a solo Crusader setup. Saying "Well this wins in inty vs. inty" or "This wins in inty vs. hauler" doesn't mean ****. He's looking for one that's got some flexibility AND can take down other inties if flown well.
QFT that jeez when i check back in this tread i really wo9ndered if i had forgot to remove the wow forum link from my shortcut bar. pyramid quote repleys about the temperature on Pluto instead of earth.
thank to the few who tried to answer my question and rest of you please do not post repleys on topic that where not made for them. i asked for a crusader setup and the needed skills for it but i got 95% pure crap here thank you so much.
to any mod who sees this tread make me happy and close it please. this is ridiculous.
Lili
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Foocurr
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Posted - 2008.07.01 21:58:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Lili Killer
Originally by: Delencia Lakat One thing, this thread is supposed to be about a solo Crusader setup. Saying "Well this wins in inty vs. inty" or "This wins in inty vs. hauler" doesn't mean ****. He's looking for one that's got some flexibility AND can take down other inties if flown well.
QFT that jeez when i check back in this tread i really wo9ndered if i had forgot to remove the wow forum link from my shortcut bar. pyramid quote repleys about the temperature on Pluto instead of earth.
thank to the few who tried to answer my question and rest of you please do not post repleys on topic that where not made for them. i asked for a crusader setup and the needed skills for it but i got 95% pure crap here thank you so much.
to any mod who sees this tread make me happy and close it please. this is ridiculous.
Lili
so you got what you needed and the thread evolved into a discussion. go whine about it somewhere else.
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Delencia Lakat
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Posted - 2008.07.01 21:59:00 -
[66]
Now I might be wrong but last time I checked, "discussion" of a ship in EVE didn't mean getting angry and telling people to clean their genitals?
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Diomidis
Amarr Mythos Corp RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.07.01 21:59:00 -
[67]
The locus rigged, dual TE II pulse Crusader is a really fun machine to fly... I have something around 70 KM in a Crusader. Surely I've tried a Dual Beam version with both Aurora S and Faction Standard/IR crystals for range and cap stability + sufficient tracking...nothing matches the Pulse version.
If you want a fast tackling ceptor, the Maledition is better...better targeting range, better scram range, room for a webber...the Crow can be even easier to get around with...still I have no intentions cross-training for another Ceptor...I enjoy both the Malediction for large gangs, or the Crusader for out-of-boredom solo trips, few ppl gate camps etc.
If you are an experienced inty pilot you know when and how to bail out. Unless something goes wrong or you make a bad judgement of the situation, the Crusader is reasonably fast with 2x OD II and a 1mn T2 MWD to outrun most threats, or warp off before even the fastest inty comes close to locking you. Also navigating manually with correct timing can help you get out of scram range 99% against other ceptors orbiting you: just like a 15-17km orbit is dangerously close to heated web ranges, a 20-23km orbit is very easily widened to >28km = out of harms way...and that's easy even without overheating your MWD from my experience.
The ship is fun to fly. Period. The Ship smashes frigates. Period. Ok, the Ranis can do better dps and fits a webber thus VERY dangerous - that doesn't lessen the fact that the Pulse sader can comfortably fight outside even heated web-ranges against non-nanoed cruisers etc, with excellent tracking and dps. Cap stability is sufficient. Just needs decent skills and MWD pulsing, like 90% of all viable PvP fits...perma-running etc is a PvE thing...if you've failed to kill or get killed in a pulse sader before you cap out (not due to a Neut or something) you are really doing something wrong... Join the Biggest Greek Corp! www.Mythos-eve.com - Join Mythos Channel in game! |

Delencia Lakat
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Posted - 2008.07.01 22:02:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Diomidis The locus rigged, dual TE II pulse Crusader is a really fun machine to fly... I have something around 70 KM in a Crusader. Surely I've tried a Dual Beam version with both Aurora S and Faction Standard/IR crystals for range and cap stability + sufficient tracking...nothing matches the Pulse version.
If you want a fast tackling ceptor, the Maledition is better...better targeting range, better scram range, room for a webber...the Crow can be even easier to get around with...still I have no intentions cross-training for another Ceptor...I enjoy both the Malediction for large gangs, or the Crusader for out-of-boredom solo trips, few ppl gate camps etc.
If you are an experienced inty pilot you know when and how to bail out. Unless something goes wrong or you make a bad judgement of the situation, the Crusader is reasonably fast with 2x OD II and a 1mn T2 MWD to outrun most threats, or warp off before even the fastest inty comes close to locking you. Also navigating manually with correct timing can help you get out of scram range 99% against other ceptors orbiting you: just like a 15-17km orbit is dangerously close to heated web ranges, a 20-23km orbit is very easily widened to >28km = out of harms way...and that's easy even without overheating your MWD from my experience.
The ship is fun to fly. Period. The Ship smashes frigates. Period. Ok, the Ranis can do better dps and fits a webber thus VERY dangerous - that doesn't lessen the fact that the Pulse sader can comfortably fight outside even heated web-ranges against non-nanoed cruisers etc, with excellent tracking and dps. Cap stability is sufficient. Just needs decent skills and MWD pulsing, like 90% of all viable PvP fits...perma-running etc is a PvE thing...if you've failed to kill or get killed in a pulse sader before you cap out (not due to a Neut or something) you are really doing something wrong...
QF some serious T
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Dheorl
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.07.01 22:07:00 -
[69]
Originally by: AstroPhobic
Originally by: Dheorl
Originally by: Foocurr
Originally by: Dheorl P.S. If your gona get into what killbaords say look at the guy I'm arguing with 
i don't give a **** about kb stats. of my 4 characters, only 2 can be found on any killboard and it matters not.
It wasn't directed at you, it was directed at the guy pulling up info from battleclinic about me.
It was the TRI killboard actually, though I did peek at BC. TBH though, no recent BC inty kills + no corp = no recent inty kills. Unless you're only killing nubs, in which case it doesn't matter anyway.
Thats one of the worst bits of logic I have ever heard on EVE forums. Somebody give this guy a medal.
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Foocurr
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Posted - 2008.07.01 22:17:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Delencia Lakat Now I might be wrong but last time I checked, "discussion" of a ship in EVE didn't mean getting angry and telling people to clean their genitals?
it seems you didn't get all the sand out of there.
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Dheorl
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.07.01 22:19:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Foocurr
Originally by: Delencia Lakat Now I might be wrong but last time I checked, "discussion" of a ship in EVE didn't mean getting angry and telling people to clean their genitals?
it seems you didn't get all the sand out of there.
Just out of curiosity, why are you being such a jerk? If you are certain that your idea is best and you are right you should easily be able to win the argument without resorting to measures such as that.
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Caelum Dominus
Invicta.
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Posted - 2008.07.01 22:19:00 -
[72]
/thread.
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Foocurr
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Posted - 2008.07.01 22:28:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Dheorl
Originally by: Foocurr
Originally by: Delencia Lakat Now I might be wrong but last time I checked, "discussion" of a ship in EVE didn't mean getting angry and telling people to clean their genitals?
it seems you didn't get all the sand out of there.
Just out of curiosity, why are you being such a jerk? If you are certain that your idea is best and you are right you should easily be able to win the argument without resorting to measures such as that.
never said it was best. simply threw it out there. was more than you did: "i dont wanna give you my setup cause then you'll know". then i was extracting some nice info from the invicta dude when all of the sudden some folks got butthurt about the thread blooming into a discussion after the op got his question answered like 3 posts into it.
i dunno, people start getting emotional and all hell breaks loose. lighten up Francis.
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AstroPhobic
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.07.01 22:29:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Dheorl
Thats one of the worst bits of logic I have ever heard on EVE forums. Somebody give this guy a medal.
You don't appear to be comprehending. A corp or alliance KB would have your name tied to (their) loss mails. A personal or corp KB would have your name tied to killmails. BC would have your name tied to (their) loss mails. So if you were attacking a decently known corp, your name would pop up. If you were in a corp/alliance, your name would pop up. If you killed some guys who weren't in a decently known corp, your name would pop up in BC.
However, none of these. Maybe you're only killing russians or macros. 
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Dheorl
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.07.01 22:59:00 -
[75]
Originally by: AstroPhobic
Originally by: Dheorl
Thats one of the worst bits of logic I have ever heard on EVE forums. Somebody give this guy a medal.
You don't appear to be comprehending. A corp or alliance KB would have your name tied to (their) loss mails. A personal or corp KB would have your name tied to killmails. BC would have your name tied to (their) loss mails. So if you were attacking a decently known corp, your name would pop up. If you were in a corp/alliance, your name would pop up. If you killed some guys who weren't in a decently known corp, your name would pop up in BC.
However, none of these. Maybe you're only killing russians or macros. 
For starters battle clinic isn't linked to every killboard in EVE. Also, why would my name pop up if I killed guys in a corp who didn't themselves have a kb and I didn't bother posting it?
Not everyone feels the need to post every kill they get in an attempt to boost their e-peen.
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Terena Darkeen
Amarr SECTION-X
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Posted - 2008.07.01 23:03:00 -
[76]
4x Light beam lasers II ( infra red crystals )
1 mn mwd II ( I prefer gisty b type ) 24 km scram 2x overdrive II 1x nanofiber 1x tracking enchenter II
Rig 2 x CCC
I know a expensive setup but it works pretty well. You need advanced weapon upgrades 4 and elektronic and engineering 5 to fit this.
Orbit at 14 km your speed will throw you to 18 km, 7.5 k orbit speed and you can hit with % 80 accurancy. Cap stable also so every think is perma run.
No need to a web since you will faster ad more agile than most inty so they will never able to run away from you,
I'm flying intercepter most of the time. No offence but those close range pulse setups is a joke. What are you doing orbit and pray that targe wont have a web? I accept even as webbed many ship cant hit a inty but almsot every ship in this game has drones.
Sader is fastest intercepter ( it also holds to interpeter class speed record ) Crow and malediction is really bad in inty vs inty fights since at high speeds rockets and standar missiles dont deal any damage. Most of the taranis pilots use blaster setup they are deadly in close range but no tranis enter that range yet since we orbited each other and tracking other inties is easier cause of radial velocity. Do not listen people that telling train this. I can fly crow, ranis and sader and sader is my favorite all the time
___________________________________________________ Hoist the colors |

Foocurr
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Posted - 2008.07.01 23:03:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Dheorl
Originally by: AstroPhobic
Originally by: Dheorl
Thats one of the worst bits of logic I have ever heard on EVE forums. Somebody give this guy a medal.
You don't appear to be comprehending. A corp or alliance KB would have your name tied to (their) loss mails. A personal or corp KB would have your name tied to killmails. BC would have your name tied to (their) loss mails. So if you were attacking a decently known corp, your name would pop up. If you were in a corp/alliance, your name would pop up. If you killed some guys who weren't in a decently known corp, your name would pop up in BC.
However, none of these. Maybe you're only killing russians or macros. 
For starters battle clinic isn't linked to every killboard in EVE. Also, why would my name pop up if I killed guys in a corp who didn't themselves have a kb and I didn't bother posting it?
Not everyone feels the need to post every kill they get in an attempt to boost their e-peen.
yeah but he might be trolling you bud.
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Foocurr
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Posted - 2008.07.01 23:10:00 -
[78]
Edited by: Foocurr on 01/07/2008 23:12:03
Originally by: Terena Darkeen
Orbit at 14 km your speed will throw you to 18 km, 7.5 k orbit speed and you can hit with % 80 accurancy. Cap stable also so every think is perma run.
No offence but those close range pulse setups is a joke. What are you doing orbit and pray that targe wont have a web?
You'll see the pulse setup mentioned hits at the same ranges you mentioned and hit more often for more damage. *read*
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Terena Darkeen
Amarr SECTION-X
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Posted - 2008.07.01 23:48:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Foocurr Edited by: Foocurr on 01/07/2008 23:12:03
Originally by: Terena Darkeen
Orbit at 14 km your speed will throw you to 18 km, 7.5 k orbit speed and you can hit with % 80 accurancy. Cap stable also so every think is perma run.
No offence but those close range pulse setups is a joke. What are you doing orbit and pray that targe wont have a web?
You'll see the pulse setup mentioned hits at the same ranges you mentioned and hit more often for more damage. *read*
Yep they can problem is with my speed, I can outrun warrior IIs, no turret can track me and most importantly I receive no damage drom missiles. Is that pulse setup can do that ? And while there are HAC and other ships with poly rigs going like 6 k around like vagabons, ishurs, zealots I prefer to kill a target slower but safe. It is a t2 ship each one cost more than 10 M even with a decent fit. When CCP start reasonable insrence money for t2 losses, I promise to fit my saders with pulses. An even with beams it has more DPS than a crow. People wont matter killing slow in a crow so I wont in my sader ___________________________________________________ Hoist the colors |

Leon 026
Caldari Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2008.07.02 06:24:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Terena Darkeen 4x Light beam lasers II ( infra red crystals )
1 mn mwd II ( I prefer gisty b type ) 24 km scram 2x overdrive II 1x nanofiber 1x tracking enchenter II
Rig 2 x CCC
I know a expensive setup but it works pretty well. You need advanced weapon upgrades 4 and elektronic and engineering 5 to fit this.
Orbit at 14 km your speed will throw you to 18 km, 7.5 k orbit speed and you can hit with % 80 accurancy. Cap stable also so every think is perma run.
No need to a web since you will faster ad more agile than most inty so they will never able to run away from you,
I'm flying intercepter most of the time. No offence but those close range pulse setups is a joke. What are you doing orbit and pray that targe wont have a web? I accept even as webbed many ship cant hit a inty but almsot every ship in this game has drones.
Sader is fastest intercepter ( it also holds to interpeter class speed record ) Crow and malediction is really bad in inty vs inty fights since at high speeds rockets and standar missiles dont deal any damage. Most of the taranis pilots use blaster setup they are deadly in close range but no tranis enter that range yet since we orbited each other and tracking other inties is easier cause of radial velocity. Do not listen people that telling train this. I can fly crow, ranis and sader and sader is my favorite all the time
The dual-light beam crusader setup is generally seen as the most optimal anti-interceptor and general purpose 'sader setup in general, yea. I'd usually recommend 'sader pilots to use dual-light beams as well. While pulse weapons do more damage, in inty-fights as well as regular inty-PvP, range dictation is half the battle, so the dual-light beams give a huge advantage to that. Problem is that its not *exactly* a solo setup... well, that could be argued that inties in general aren't exactly known to be solo ships to take out heavy targets. Just because they can do so doesn't generally mean that they are designed for that.
Concerning speed though, I don't think that the 'sader holding the speed record is really that advantageous. I've tested out a basic 'sader setup to fly at 17k/s, but I noticed myself manually reducing my speed to 4k/s for it to be viable in combat (in a dogfight situation mind you), so really, flying an interceptor with a top speed of 17k and only using 4k-5k in combat is a whole lot of wasted speed that could be better spent elsewhere on other mods.
And oh, crow's are definately over-rated. -------
Leon 026 Once I was fallen, now I have wings
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Boz Well
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Posted - 2008.07.02 06:47:00 -
[81]
This thread entertains. I've always thought there should be an arena associated with the forums to settle disagreements. Mitnal will just declare a contest, force you both to buy saders and fit them with your own fit, and duel to the death.
Well... at least I can dream.
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Dheorl
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.07.02 08:46:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Leon 026 And oh, crow's are definately over-rated.
Just had to pick up on this because I've been out of crows for a while and have just bought a new one, so why do you think they are over-rated?
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Terena Darkeen
Amarr SECTION-X
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Posted - 2008.07.02 11:01:00 -
[83]
Crow is overrated because : Every intercepter can do what a crow do When it comes against a nano target crow and malediction hardly deal damage Crow is slower than most intercepter I can buy 2 crusader for the price of 1 crow
Only advantage of crow is against newbie miners :) A sader and a ranis with that much weapon on them scare them whne you swaped, but a crow looks so innocent  ___________________________________________________ Hoist the colors |

Leon 026
Caldari Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2008.07.02 11:16:00 -
[84]
Edited by: Leon 026 on 02/07/2008 11:18:33
Originally by: Dheorl Just had to pick up on this because I've been out of crows for a while and have just bought a new one, so why do you think they are over-rated?
After flying them for more than 2 years, there's a lot faults with the Crow's design and how it handles several things.
The most glaring issue with the crow is the side-effect from the polycarb/nano fad that has indirectly nerfed crows - missile velocity / missile explosion velocity -- The problem with nano/polycarbs is that now that the average interceptor speed is no longer 3.5-4.2k/s like it was during the Cold War, current average speeds are over 5k, and over 10k in specialized inty pilots. The issue is that in some cases, missile speed is simply not fast enough to actually "hit" the target. With max skills, a crow's missile velocity is 8,237.5m/s - which is enough to "hit" the average inty, and probably not on a faster-than average inty. Now bear in mind that when firing at a static target, you'll have quite a decent range, but if the target is moving, the total range is maybe half. I don't know the exact math, but against a target that's moving directly away, the range is nowhere near its maximum range.
Now assume you hit the target, you'll have to take into account its signature radius and your missile explosion velocity (exp.v) to work out the damage. We'll ignore signature radius because no ship with a MWD on will have a sig radius smaller than the missile's base explosion radius. However, the base exp.v on an untrained pilot is 1,750m/s, and roughly about 2.5k/s on a trained inty pilot. Thats exactly half the speed of an 'average' interceptor. Missiles usually has about 800m/s window to do about half damage, but the problem is that against an average inty, 2.5k/s is still 2.5k/s off of 5k/s, thus you're not only past the 'half-damage' window, but its more than likely that you'll do close to 0.1-10 damage per missile, when you should be doing about 70'ish with bloodclaws. Against a target moving at 6-7k+, then with regular missiles you'll be effectively doing 0 damage.
The solution (in theory) is to use either a) a web, or b) precision light missiles. Precision light missiles (precs) have a base untrained exp.v of 3,000m/s. With skills we'll say about 4.5k/s. 4.5/s should still do about 4/5th damage to 5k/s average inties, against faster-than-average interceptors that do 8k+, you can forget damaging it if its flying directly away from you. Not only that, each missile you load you're taking a 7% velocity hit. Conclusion : precision light missiles are simply aren't that great, even WITH max missile skills (which consequently I do have, as well as light missile spec V). Basically, you're dumping a whole lot of training time in order to barely damage "average" speed-fitted interceptors.
But that's just for dogfighting.
Against bigger targets light battleships, then the crow's DPS isn't even that amazing. 68 dps or so I think? You could potentially hit 100 dps with the crow if you resort to using officer/faction BCUs and Caldari Navy-issue light missile launchers (T1). While using CN light missile launchers, you forfeit the ability to use precision lights, gimping anti-frigate/inty completely, for a measly 100dps... which in all honesty you could've simply switched to a blasteranis or railranis that does the anti-cruiser job more efficiently for a fraction of the cost.
For tackling, you could spend an extra 100mil on polycarbs, maybe another 170mil for a gistii a-type, then another further 700mil+ on snakes to have the 'invulnicrow' with more zoomzoom than a Mazda commercial. An Ares with the same investment has more scram range, and can do 28k/s if you really -have- to go that fast. Or, you could just spend 600k on a rifter and tackle just a well.
The only reason why I fly the crow these days is mainly because I've spent 2.5years flying the crow, and I might as well make use of all the knowledge I've gained... and I like how it looks. -------
Leon 026 Once I was fallen, now I have wings
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Diomidis
Amarr Mythos Corp RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.07.02 11:20:00 -
[85]
Missiles make it seem easier, as they allow you to fight further away, an possibly even out of enemies scram and neut range too. You just dial in orbit to compensate for your speed and go-round-round slowly popping things, most of which even a fast T1 frig could "speed tank".
When fighting another ceptor or whatever bigger and nanoed, practice proves that things are far from "easier" in a Crow. It's still a decent ceptor, perhaps better that a crusader for all-around tackling as I've said, but Crusader and Taranis fulfill their own roles just fine. Join the Biggest Greek Corp! www.Mythos-eve.com - Join Mythos Channel in game! |

Reginvalt
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Posted - 2008.07.02 13:15:00 -
[86]
What can do Crusader vs Rail Taranis? ` |

Caelum Dominus
Invicta.
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Posted - 2008.07.02 13:27:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Reginvalt What can do Crusader vs Rail Taranis?
Not much, although it *might* be able to kill it first with great skills and overheating.
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Take Enemy
Amarr Armada.
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Posted - 2008.07.02 16:43:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Foocurr
Originally by: BillyBong2
How are the DPS numbers wrong - are you speaking to the crusaders? or the 'diction?
sader
2 x OD II 2 x TE II
gistii btype 1mn disruptor II
4 x dual light pulse, scorch s
2x energy locus coord
107 dps(max skills) 17km optimal
This was the setup in question, but i dont know if you were using a different one. The locus coord rigs fix your optimal and you need energy weapon rigging 3 and i believe awu5 to fit.
speed fit rocket diction will get just under 10km/s before implants and do 66 dps with max skills out to 10km.
sub out for 2 x BCU IIs = 96 dps, but you struggle for speed and the cpu to fit anything useful. also, your rockets explosion velocity is 3000m/s. :(
sub out for 1 x BCU II = 81 dps, but again, you dont do any damage until your within 10km and have your target webbed, but you're probably in armor by then anyway. :)
diction pilot conclusion = fit standard launchers, go real fast and stay the F out of web range so you can hold you target down for your GANG to kill it.
Can be done with AWU IV and a regular 1MN MWD II (capout is less though obviously).
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Marcus Druallis
Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.07.02 17:00:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Foocurr Edited by: Foocurr on 01/07/2008 17:58:10
Originally by: BillyBong2 OK, My crusader with my current skills can get me almost 3 minutes of cap and 7.7km with Poly Carbs in the rigs.
According to the DPS calculations that I am doing the 'Sader with scorch is still 127 vs maxxing everything out of the with 'diction at 70 or just above.
Check your optimal range. You wont want to go that close to a target, especially with 100m worth of rigs. Also, your DPS numbers are incorrect.
dont forget. rockets fail to hit fast things and t2 rockets gimp speed/cap
I got 8km/s with a javelin malediction. And I only have 1 polycarb fitted... --
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Straife
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.07.02 19:22:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Marcus Druallis I got 8km/s with a javelin malediction. And I only have 1 polycarb fitted...
And your damage against another inty without a faction web is...
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