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Foocurr
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Posted - 2008.07.02 19:46:00 -
[91]
 Originally by: Terena Darkeen
Yep they can problem is with my speed, I can outrun warrior IIs, no turret can track me and most importantly I receive no damage drom missiles. Is that pulse setup can do that ?
And while there are HAC and other ships with poly rigs going like 6 k around like vagabons, ishurs, zealots I prefer to kill a target slower but safe. It is a t2 ship each one cost more than 10 M even with a decent fit. When CCP start reasonable insrence money for t2 losses, I promise to fit my saders with pulses.
An even with beams it has more DPS than a crow. People wont matter killing slow in a crow so I wont in my sader
Well, this particular pulse setup will run me to 7.6km/s.(with my implants and perfect nav skills). Consider your speed at a ~18km orbit to be around 5km/s+. this, coupled with interceptor 5, should make you able to speed tank targets that you choose to engage. There are obvious ones you'll want to avoid. HACs with high tracking or speed, precision missile spewers, and the general heavy nuet/long range webber. Drone boats should be particularly vulnerable to the pulse setup as it handles drones nice and quick leaving a defenseless target.
tbh a crow is like a steak dinner for pulse sader.
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AstroPhobic
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.07.02 20:05:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Dheorl
For starters battle clinic isn't linked to every killboard in EVE. Also, why would my name pop up if I killed guys in a corp who didn't themselves have a kb and I didn't bother posting it?
Not everyone feels the need to post every kill they get in an attempt to boost their e-peen.
I search on both BC and google, where the TRI board picked up. Anyway I'm following the logic that serious pvpers = acceptable kills, in which serious pvpers have their own board. Most boards force their pilots to post all kills and losses.
But whatever, enough OT. 
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Foocurr
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Posted - 2008.07.02 20:13:00 -
[93]
Originally by: AstroPhobic
Originally by: Dheorl
For starters battle clinic isn't linked to every killboard in EVE. Also, why would my name pop up if I killed guys in a corp who didn't themselves have a kb and I didn't bother posting it?
Not everyone feels the need to post every kill they get in an attempt to boost their e-peen.
I search on both BC and google, where the TRI board picked up. Anyway I'm following the logic that serious pvpers = acceptable kills, in which serious pvpers have their own board. Most boards force their pilots to post all kills and losses.
But whatever, enough OT.
who the F cares? get out.
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AstroPhobic
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.07.02 20:25:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Foocurr
who the F cares? get out.
 Please. I was discussing the strength of his interceptor knowledge, which he claims to know lots about. It directly affects the conversation/argument and the viability of his claims.
Maybe you'll understand when you get a 20 page long thread of race/module/ship discussion, and every page there's a guy claiming he knows everything about this and it's balanced, when in reality he doesn't even use said race/module/ship. People claiming to be all knowledgeable about EvE when reality is far from it.
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Foocurr
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Posted - 2008.07.02 20:41:00 -
[95]
Originally by: AstroPhobic
...
Ok, but most of us don't need to look at killboards to determine if someone knows what they are talking about or not.
Also, you coming in and being the KB police disrupts the discussion more than whoever you are claiming has so-called insufficient pvp experience to speak on the matters of the thread.
...but, since we are off-topic now anyway...
Nice ranis fit
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AstroPhobic
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.07.02 20:44:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Foocurr
Ok, but most of us don't need to look at killboards to determine if someone knows what they are talking about or not.
Sorry I haven't ever fought with or against Dheorl. 
Ranis was a ninja ratting fit, but that's besides the point. I never claimed to know anything about interceptors. PS, 7 months ago.
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Foocurr
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Posted - 2008.07.02 20:49:00 -
[97]
Originally by: AstroPhobic
Originally by: Foocurr
Ok, but most of us don't need to look at killboards to determine if someone knows what they are talking about or not.
Sorry I haven't ever fought with or against Dheorl.
Ranis was a ninja ratting fit, but that's besides the point. I never claimed to know anything about interceptors. PS, 7 months ago.
suuuuuuuure. 
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AstroPhobic
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.07.02 20:53:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Foocurr
Originally by: AstroPhobic
Originally by: Foocurr
Ok, but most of us don't need to look at killboards to determine if someone knows what they are talking about or not.
Sorry I haven't ever fought with or against Dheorl.
Ranis was a ninja ratting fit, but that's besides the point. I never claimed to know anything about interceptors. PS, 7 months ago.
suuuuuuuure.
It's exhilarating, ratting in a taranis. The DPS is nice (better than flying a minnie BS.. lol) and you really have to learn how to weave and dodge fire as a ceptor pilot.
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Foocurr
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Posted - 2008.07.02 21:25:00 -
[99]
Originally by: AstroPhobic
Originally by: Foocurr
Originally by: AstroPhobic
Originally by: Foocurr
Ok, but most of us don't need to look at killboards to determine if someone knows what they are talking about or not.
Sorry I haven't ever fought with or against Dheorl.
Ranis was a ninja ratting fit, but that's besides the point. I never claimed to know anything about interceptors. PS, 7 months ago.
suuuuuuuure.
It's exhilarating, ratting in a taranis. The DPS is nice (better than flying a minnie BS.. lol) and you really have to learn how to weave and dodge fire as a ceptor pilot.
now i know you're full of it cause ratting is never exhilarating. 
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Dheorl
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.07.02 21:33:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Leon 026
The solution (in theory) is to use either a) a web
So whats wrong with this solution?
I've had a reasonable experience with crows and I've always found that I have enough dps to kill cruisers and can just web ceptors, so to me they are the perfect ceptor.
Meh, anyways, back to saders.
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AstroPhobic
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.07.02 22:45:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Foocurr
now i know you're full of it cause ratting is never exhilarating.
At the time, that taranis fit would be close to 25m. There's something exciting about the possibility of losing it if I flied in a straight line for a few seconds. The web frigates make it exciting too, you have to fight them off quickly so you don't pop.
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Dheorl
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.07.02 22:58:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Foocurr
tbh a crow is like a steak dinner for pulse sader.
Wanna try that theory out against my new crow setup some day?
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Foocurr
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Posted - 2008.07.02 23:32:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Dheorl
Originally by: Foocurr
tbh a crow is like a steak dinner for pulse sader.
Wanna try that theory out against my new crow setup some day?
Sure. meet me in Doril in 45 minutes.
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Dheorl
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.07.02 23:40:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Foocurr
Originally by: Dheorl
Originally by: Foocurr
tbh a crow is like a steak dinner for pulse sader.
Wanna try that theory out against my new crow setup some day?
Sure. meet me in Doril in 45 minutes.
The "some day" not being today, a) because I can't get on for any amount of time atm and b) because I lost all my implants and haven't had a chance to replace them yet. I'll come and say hi soon though.
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Stuart Price
Caldari
The Black Rabbits
The Gurlstas Associates
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Posted - 2008.07.02 23:43:00 -
[105]
Crow is over-rated because the Crusader and Taranis are better combat inties.
If you use your Crow for tackling, then the Malediction, Ares and Stiletto and better at that.
The Raptor is just plain rubbish imho. I flew one for a bit, for a laugh. Then I got a malediction and a 'sader.
"I got soul but I'm not a soldier" |
Dheorl
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.07.02 23:50:00 -
[106]
Edited by: Dheorl on 02/07/2008 23:54:37
Originally by: Stuart Price
Crow is over-rated because the Crusader and Taranis are better combat inties.
If you use your Crow for tackling, then the Malediction, Ares and Stiletto and better at that.
The Raptor is just plain rubbish imho. I flew one for a bit, for a laugh. Then I got a malediction and a 'sader.
IMO the crow is easily the best for fighting anything apart from another ceptor, against another ceptor it isn't enough worse than ranis or sader that it's other fighting abilities don't make up for it.
After looking at crow in EFT for the first time I'm curious, why does it have such little structure? (I've never realised before because I've never got to that point in combat before) but I mean it's even got less than the raptor, and a good 200 less than the minmatar ceptors. Not complaining as such, it just seems a bit odd.
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Foocurr
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Posted - 2008.07.03 01:35:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Dheorl
Originally by: Foocurr
Originally by: Dheorl
Originally by: Foocurr
tbh a crow is like a steak dinner for pulse sader.
Wanna try that theory out against my new crow setup some day?
Sure. meet me in Doril in 45 minutes.
The "some day" not being today, a) because I can't get on for any amount of time atm and b) because I lost all my implants and haven't had a chance to replace them yet. I'll come and say hi soon though.
chicken
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Dheorl
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.07.03 01:38:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Foocurr
Originally by: Dheorl
Originally by: Foocurr
Originally by: Dheorl
Originally by: Foocurr
tbh a crow is like a steak dinner for pulse sader.
Wanna try that theory out against my new crow setup some day?
Sure. meet me in Doril in 45 minutes.
The "some day" not being today, a) because I can't get on for any amount of time atm and b) because I lost all my implants and haven't had a chance to replace them yet. I'll come and say hi soon though.
chicken
Like I said, I'll come say hi soon, I'll still fight you, just not now.
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Stuart Price
Caldari
The Black Rabbits
The Gurlstas Associates
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Posted - 2008.07.03 04:01:00 -
[109]
Edited by: Stuart Price on 03/07/2008 04:05:18
Edited by: Stuart Price on 03/07/2008 04:02:21
My experience at fighting against Crows (and using Crows for that matter) points to the following:
Light missiles just don't have enough explosion velocity to do appreciable damage (or any damage worth noticing in fact) to another interceptor fighting outside web range. As opposed to a pulse-sader which easily tracks and hits hard enough to bring it down fairly quickly.
If the crow burns in for a web, it's taking the risk that it's combination of dps and EHP is greater than its opponents. A Crusader has more EHP and a lot more dps.
Against a Taranis fitted with blasters, coming into web range is just suicide. Staying out of web range of a good 'ranis pilot it very difficult.
The Crow is easy to fly, so it gets bonus points for that. It can also just kite anything with inadequate tracking making it safer when engaging larger targets. Against a competent 'sader or 'ranis pilot the best the average Crow can hope for is escape. In a dogfight, the odds are stacked against it.
Not saying it can't be done, but it IS very hard.
It's not always a great indicator, but on Sisi I took a Crow into FFA5 and didn't kill much before a Harpy came in and toasted me (although I did kill a badly fit and very slow Taranis). A few days later I went in with a pulse-sader and had a whale of a time. Toasted four Crows in short order (two of them at the same time, 2 v 1) until a seriously good 'ranis pilot got me webbed and ruined my fun :p
"I got soul but I'm not a soldier" |
Dheorl
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.07.03 10:23:00 -
[110]
I do have to admit if it became just a slugfest in webrange between my crow and one of those pulse saders it would be worryingly close and would prob boil down to how much damage he did to me on approach.
It's got more effective HP than me by quite a way but I do outdamage it so it would certainly be a close one.
Also staying at the edge of webrange against a ranis can be done (as long as he hasn't pimped it but how often do you see one of those), I've admitadly never tried it in the crow but I've managed it in my stiletto which is considerably slower.
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Leon 026
Caldari
Veto.
Veto Corp
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Posted - 2008.07.03 10:59:00 -
[111]
Edited by: Leon 026 on 03/07/2008 11:02:10
Originally by: Dheorl
Originally by: Leon 026
The solution (in theory) is to use either a) a web
So whats wrong with this solution?
I've had a reasonable experience with crows and I've always found that I have enough dps to kill cruisers and can just web ceptors, so to me they are the perfect ceptor.
Meh, anyways, back to saders.
I say theory because using webs in a high-speed dogfight is more improbable than guarenteed web-kill. Two inties dogfighting and maneuvering at 10k+, with a typical fight zone of 200km (+/- 100km) across, and you have a 10km web, the likelyhood of actually getting within 10km and getting the web and actually holding on to it long enough for the inty to noticeably become tangled (don't forget the time for human reaction) makes webbing incredibly difficult on a reliable basis at extreme high speed fights. At 6-7k/s its obviously easier, but when you're hitting the 10km/s+ fighting zones, its still tricky to get into warp disruptor range for a reliable amount of time, let alone webbing range.
Webbing is certainly possible and doable, its just in some engagements, its either improbable or near-impossible depending on the level of dogfighting.
Another important point is that a crow is designed (usually, unless its a rocket-crow) to be a long range interceptor. Having long-range potential, and then ignoring that to engage in close-range web-range seems a bit counter-intuitive. Also remember, if you can web the guy, its most likely that he can too - thus you're taking a long range inty into a short-range fight, which could potentially turn into a short-range slugfest, which can be incredibly disadvantageous to the crow.
-------
Leon 026
Once I was fallen, now I have wings
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Stuart Price
Caldari
The Black Rabbits
The Gurlstas Associates
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Posted - 2008.07.03 13:12:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Dheorl
I do have to admit if it became just a slugfest in webrange between my crow and one of those pulse saders it would be worryingly close and would prob boil down to how much damage he did to me on approach.
It's got more effective HP than me by quite a way but I do outdamage it so it would certainly be a close one.
Also staying at the edge of webrange against a ranis can be done (as long as he hasn't pimped it but how often do you see one of those), I've admitadly never tried it in the crow but I've managed it in my stiletto which is considerably slower.
The only way you outdamage a t2 pulse-sader with a Crow is to use 3 damage mods and Bloodclaw Fury missiles. OR an obscenely expensive faction fit.
With max skills, 3 damage mods and the t2 high damage missiles you get a max dps of 108. The Crusader setup I run with has 105 - with my skills.
Volley damage != dps
"I got soul but I'm not a soldier" |
Dheorl
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.07.03 13:34:00 -
[113]
Edited by: Dheorl on 03/07/2008 13:34:30
With all lvl 5 skills my crow gets 118 dps (or 132 if I alter the setup to take on ceptors rather than bigger stuff), the sader setup mentioned in this thread gets 107 with max skills.
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Foocurr
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Posted - 2008.07.03 16:07:00 -
[114]
Edited by: Foocurr on 03/07/2008 16:09:20
Originally by: Dheorl
Edited by: Dheorl on 03/07/2008 13:34:30
With all lvl 5 skills my crow gets 118 dps (or 132 if I alter the setup to take on ceptors rather than bigger stuff), the sader setup mentioned in this thread gets 107 with max skills.
how fast is this setup? missiles or rockets? tbh, i think you are talking out your arse.
edit: to achieve that dps you need t2 rocket launchers and 3x BCUs...so????
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Dheorl
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.07.03 16:08:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Foocurr
Originally by: Dheorl
Edited by: Dheorl on 03/07/2008 13:34:30
With all lvl 5 skills my crow gets 118 dps (or 132 if I alter the setup to take on ceptors rather than bigger stuff), the sader setup mentioned in this thread gets 107 with max skills.
how fast is this setup? missiles or rockets? tbh, i think you are talking out your arse.
Rockets and with gistii b-type will go a bit over 7km/s.
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Foocurr
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Posted - 2008.07.03 16:10:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Dheorl
Originally by: Foocurr
Originally by: Dheorl
Edited by: Dheorl on 03/07/2008 13:34:30
With all lvl 5 skills my crow gets 118 dps (or 132 if I alter the setup to take on ceptors rather than bigger stuff), the sader setup mentioned in this thread gets 107 with max skills.
how fast is this setup? missiles or rockets? tbh, i think you are talking out your arse.
Rockets and with gistii b-type will go a bit over 7km/s.
edit: to achieve that dps you need t2 rocket launchers and 3x BCUs...so????
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Dheorl
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.07.03 16:11:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Foocurr
Originally by: Dheorl
Originally by: Foocurr
Originally by: Dheorl
Edited by: Dheorl on 03/07/2008 13:34:30
With all lvl 5 skills my crow gets 118 dps (or 132 if I alter the setup to take on ceptors rather than bigger stuff), the sader setup mentioned in this thread gets 107 with max skills.
how fast is this setup? missiles or rockets? tbh, i think you are talking out your arse.
Rockets and with gistii b-type will go a bit over 7km/s.
edit: to achieve that dps you need t2 rocket launchers and 3x BCUs...so????
No, you need t2 rocket launchers, faction rockets and 1 BCU, oh, and don't forget the gun hardpoint the crow has.
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Dheorl
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.07.03 16:22:00 -
[118]
Edited by: Dheorl on 03/07/2008 16:21:54
Originally by: Foocurr
Originally by: Dheorl
...
at any rate, rocket crow is great for hitting larger ships, but against another inty will die horribly unless it has some hp buffer. you wont do any damage to another inty until it is webbed.
if you were to take on my pulse sader, you would be getting hit the entire time you are trying to close to web range while not hitting me. you may get a few hits while changing direction and forcing me to get back to optimal, but 80% or so of the time i'd be hitting you.
All this is gona turn into is pointless theory crafting, I have a fair idea of what my crow can and can't do and obviously you haven't tried it so wouldn't know.
edit > spelling
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Foocurr
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Posted - 2008.07.03 16:32:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Dheorl
Edited by: Dheorl on 03/07/2008 16:21:54
Originally by: Foocurr
Originally by: Dheorl
...
at any rate, rocket crow is great for hitting larger ships, but against another inty will die horribly unless it has some hp buffer. you wont do any damage to another inty until it is webbed.
if you were to take on my pulse sader, you would be getting hit the entire time you are trying to close to web range while not hitting me. you may get a few hits while changing direction and forcing me to get back to optimal, but 80% or so of the time i'd be hitting you.
All this is gona turn into is pointless theory crafting, I have a fair idea of what my crow can and can't do and obviously you haven't tried it so wouldn't know.
edit > spelling
heh...i have tried rocket crow. as said before web range in an experienced inty fight is not easily attainable. why do you think i like pulse sader that can hit an unwebbed inty? trust me, if you were to get a web on me, you'd be in low shield or into armor then its a race to the pod.
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Dheorl
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.07.03 16:36:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Foocurr
heh...i have tried rocket crow. as said before web range in an experienced inty fight is not easily attainable. why do you think i like pulse sader that can hit an unwebbed inty? trust me, if you were to get a web on me, you'd be in low shield or into armor then its a race to the pod.
I'd always found it pretty easy to web another inty, meh.
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