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Lili Killer	Posted - 2008.06.30 12:41:00 - [1] Hello I am looking for a effective (save) solo crusader setup and also the required skills to fly it effective. as recently when I tried it with a friend in a duel I didn't manage to land a single hit on him. so I went for some training to improve that. but I still need some info from the vents around here.
Terianna Eri Amarr Scrutari	Posted - 2008.06.30 13:19:00 - [2] 1) What is your current fitting? 2) This is a fit that I like very much - some people would consider it a little slow for an interceptor, but it goes 5.9km/s with my skills and just over 6.1km/s with all skills at level V. [Crusader, pulse] Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Overdrive Injector System II Overdrive Injector System II Faint Warp Prohibitor I 1MN MicroWarpdrive II Dual Light Pulse Laser II, Scorch S Dual Light Pulse Laser II, Scorch S Dual Light Pulse Laser II, Scorch S Dual Light Pulse Laser II, Scorch S Energy Locus Coordinator I Energy Locus Coordinator I Good range, good tracking, good damage, but a little slow and like most interceptors (exceptions: Malediction and Taranis can be pretty hardy, relatively speaking) it can't take an awful lot of fire. Very fun to fly though since the lasers can actually hit when you're zooming around and even while orbiting - thanks CCP for the tracking bonus on the Crusader __________________________________ Originally by: Arthur Frayn How much to ruin all your holes, luv?
Lili Killer	Posted - 2008.06.30 13:24:00 - [3] well i got two atm 1 is a pure i am bored and crazy setup. with poly carbs and a gist-b type mwd (that one i will use anyway as i get 6 or so of them hanging around) but i no longer know what i had fitted for the rest been some time. also looking for the required skills.
Reginvalt	Posted - 2008.06.30 16:02:00 - [4] Learn skills for taranis or crow. http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=1023191 `
Lili Killer	Posted - 2008.06.30 16:19:00 - [5] Originally by: Reginvalt Learn skills for taranis or crow. http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=1023191 last time i checked i didn't ask for which ship i need to train for. so i ask you kindly to refer from posting information that is not requested buy the op or a other person in the topic. for the record i know they are better i just hate how they look.
Giant Haystacks Ore Mongers Black Hand.	Posted - 2008.06.30 16:29:00 - [6] Originally by: Lili Killer Originally by: Reginvalt Learn skills for taranis or crow. http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=1023191 last time i checked i didn't ask for which ship i need to train for. so i ask you kindly to refer from posting information that is not requested buy the op or a other person in the topic. for the record i know they are better i just hate how they look. Crow and ranis are not better than a sader. Doing over 100 dps while orbiting out of web range at 5k/s makes the sader the best ceptor around for solo work imo, especially against larger ships, which would web and gank a ranis or tank a crow. Any ceptor as failfitted as much as the sader in that killmail would probably die to a decently fitted rifter.
Caelum Dominus Invicta.	Posted - 2008.06.30 16:41:00 - [7] Edited by: Caelum Dominus on 30/06/2008 16:41:07 Quote: [Crusader, pulse] Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Overdrive Injector System II Overdrive Injector System II Faint Warp Prohibitor I 1MN MicroWarpdrive II Dual Light Pulse Laser II, Scorch S Dual Light Pulse Laser II, Scorch S Dual Light Pulse Laser II, Scorch S Dual Light Pulse Laser II, Scorch S Energy Locus Coordinator I Energy Locus Coordinator I How do you plan on preventing another Interceptor from running away when you're only doing 5km/s? The Crusader is so fast to compensate for the lack of a third mid-slot for a web. Quote: Doing over 100 dps while orbiting out of web range at 5k/s makes the sader the best ceptor around for solo work imo, especially against larger ships, which would web and gank a ranis or tank a crow. Step away from EFT, or at least have a glance at the capacitor section. A Crusader won't be able to sustain this for even 2 minutes while a Crow can keep it up indefinitely.
Giant Haystacks Ore Mongers Black Hand.	Posted - 2008.06.30 17:11:00 - [8] Originally by: Caelum Dominus Quote: Doing over 100 dps while orbiting out of web range at 5k/s makes the sader the best ceptor around for solo work imo, especially against larger ships, which would web and gank a ranis or tank a crow. Step away from EFT, or at least have a glance at the capacitor section. A Crusader won't be able to sustain this for even 2 minutes while a Crow can keep it up indefinitely. Drop 25mill on a gist b-type mwd and you run for about 6-7mins, after that you can keep the mwd running with one gun off. A bit more isk on 3% cap capacity+regen implants will allow the 4th gun to permarun. I didn't EFT it, I've killed a lot of cruisers and a megathron with it.
Prometheus Exenthal Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.06.30 17:58:00 - [9] Originally by: Terianna Eri Setup *WIN* This setup owns the **** out of everything. I put a collision accelerator in one rig slot instead of both since they're stacked and the extra range isn't worth it (whereas the damage is). You NEED thermodynamics to fly it though, since it isn't the fastest inty around. If you plan on killing others you're going to need to overheat to keep them pinned down once they've entered structure
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Eve Defence Force	Posted - 2008.07.01 01:12:00 - [10] Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 01/07/2008 01:12:36 Originally by: Caelum Dominus Edited by: Caelum Dominus on 30/06/2008 16:41:07 Quote: [Crusader, pulse] Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Overdrive Injector System II Overdrive Injector System II Faint Warp Prohibitor I 1MN MicroWarpdrive II Dual Light Pulse Laser II, Scorch S Dual Light Pulse Laser II, Scorch S Dual Light Pulse Laser II, Scorch S Dual Light Pulse Laser II, Scorch S Energy Locus Coordinator I Energy Locus Coordinator I How do you plan on preventing another Interceptor from running away when you're only doing 5km/s? The Crusader is so fast to compensate for the lack of a third mid-slot for a web. Quote: Doing over 100 dps while orbiting out of web range at 5k/s makes the sader the best ceptor around for solo work imo, especially against larger ships, which would web and gank a ranis or tank a crow. Step away from EFT, or at least have a glance at the capacitor section. A Crusader won't be able to sustain this for even 2 minutes while a Crow can keep it up indefinitely. 1. You can kill anything frigsize before cap runs out with that dps. Cap is not a problem with this setup. Sure you need longer for a T1 cruiser kill but you dont need to mwd all the time against one, you just pop his drones and hes defenseless. 2. You kill ceptors by overloading your mids right before you suspect the enemy inty pilot realises he needs to bugger out and press approach. ----------------------------------------- [Video] I'm a soldier, so remember the name
Stuart Price Caldari The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2008.07.01 04:29:00 - [11] Pretty much what Lyria said. Except it doesn't usually work against Taranis pilots. Just 'cause they hit structure doesn't mean they're about to die and getting into web range of one usually means a very quick, very messy death. You have to be VERY sure you can take him out first before going in close. Otherwise you're best trying to stay just out of web range. Which is very difficult when he overloads his midslots at the correct time. Fighting a competent Taranis pilot is very, very difficult in any 'ceptor and the 'sader is no exception there. "I got soul but I'm not a soldier"
Delencia Lakat	Posted - 2008.07.01 05:49:00 - [12] Edited by: Delencia Lakat on 01/07/2008 05:50:30 I've used the previously mentioned setup extensively and I can tell you that with good skills, it can load out the DPS and keep it's MWD on long enough to kill other ceptors. With the rigs, you can get out to 17 or even 18k, so you can stay out of web range and if they do charge right in, you can head away from them and move your crystals around in your guns as they creep closer. Even fast inties will have trouble. If they're all nuts about speed and going 10k/s - you can double back and their turnaround time + the distance you go at 6km/s with the MWD will give you the distance to break scrambling. Edit: of course, this is assuming you know how to fly an inty... One of the few ship classes where pilot [flying] skill really does make the difference. I've manually out-flown faster inties by bringing their transversal down and hitting them as they try to cross over to get into an orbit.
Caelum Dominus Invicta.	Posted - 2008.07.01 15:31:00 - [13] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer 2. You kill ceptors by overloading your mids right before you suspect the enemy inty pilot realises he needs to bugger out and press approach. ... right. What prevents your opponent from doing the same?
Terianna Eri Amarr Scrutari	Posted - 2008.07.01 15:45:00 - [14] Originally by: Caelum Dominus Originally by: Lyria Skydancer 2. You kill ceptors by overloading your mids right before you suspect the enemy inty pilot realises he needs to bugger out and press approach. ... right. What prevents your opponent from doing the same? If they happen to be winning? Nothing, of course. But no, nothing stops them from overloading their mids and trying to burn out of scramble range when they see they're losing. Whoever overloads first will have the advantage here. __________________________________ Originally by: Arthur Frayn How much to ruin all your holes, luv?
Caelum Dominus Invicta.	Posted - 2008.07.01 16:21:00 - [15] Originally by: Terianna Eri If they happen to be winning? Nothing, of course. But no, nothing stops them from overloading their mids and trying to burn out of scramble range when they see they're losing. Whoever overloads first will have the advantage here. No - whoever's faster than the other will have the advantage. With the aforementioned fit, you're making sure that you don't (and for what, range and tracking you don't need?).
Foocurr	Posted - 2008.07.01 16:30:00 - [16] Originally by: Caelum Dominus Originally by: Terianna Eri If they happen to be winning? Nothing, of course. But no, nothing stops them from overloading their mids and trying to burn out of scramble range when they see they're losing. Whoever overloads first will have the advantage here. No - whoever's faster than the other will have the advantage. With the aforementioned fit, you're making sure that you don't (and for what, range and tracking you don't need?). dude, the idea is to pop them before they realize you can track them at high speeds. if not, stalemate and you leave. this is not uncommon in inty fights.
Wideen Contraband Inc.	Posted - 2008.07.01 16:52:00 - [17] nice setups - until you realize you can sustain your cap for about minute and a half before caping out, and this is with a cap power relay II. This is something that bothers me greatly so I just stick to the malediction that can do the same and last + 7 minutes. DPS difference is noticable though, but at least I'll survive long enough to do something about it
Foocurr	Posted - 2008.07.01 16:55:00 - [18] Originally by: Wideen nice setups - until you realize you can sustain your cap for about minute and a half before caping out, and this is with a cap power relay II. This is something that bothers me greatly so I just stick to the malediction that can do the same and last + 7 minutes. DPS difference is noticable though, but at least I'll survive long enough to do something about it train cap skills? maxed out should last you 2.5 minutes. if you haven't killed another inty by then, you need to leave. for cruisers, you pulse mwd/one gun. with malediction your dps is terrible so you'll not kill the target anyway.
Wideen Contraband Inc.	Posted - 2008.07.01 17:03:00 - [19] Edited by: Wideen on 01/07/2008 17:04:49 Originally by: Foocurr Originally by: Wideen nice setups - until you realize you can sustain your cap for about minute and a half before caping out, and this is with a cap power relay II. This is something that bothers me greatly so I just stick to the malediction that can do the same and last + 7 minutes. DPS difference is noticable though, but at least I'll survive long enough to do something about it train cap skills? maxed out should last you 2.5 minutes. if you haven't killed another inty by then, you need to leave. for cruisers, you pulse mwd/one gun. with malediction your dps is terrible so you'll not kill the target anyway. With t2 rockets, the difference is about 30 dps (can get about 70 dps with rockets in the mal) which isn't half bad. Couple that with sustainability and you got something going. Besides, covering those long warps is just great EDIT: just checked the setup in EFT and you're right, I got the numbers wrong. Although I still prefer the better cap stability of the mal.
Foocurr	Posted - 2008.07.01 17:17:00 - [20] Originally by: Wideen Edited by: Wideen on 01/07/2008 17:04:49 Originally by: Foocurr Originally by: Wideen nice setups - until you realize you can sustain your cap for about minute and a half before caping out, and this is with a cap power relay II. This is something that bothers me greatly so I just stick to the malediction that can do the same and last + 7 minutes. DPS difference is noticable though, but at least I'll survive long enough to do something about it train cap skills? maxed out should last you 2.5 minutes. if you haven't killed another inty by then, you need to leave. for cruisers, you pulse mwd/one gun. with malediction your dps is terrible so you'll not kill the target anyway. With t2 rockets, the difference is about 30 dps (can get about 70 dps with rockets in the mal) which isn't half bad. Couple that with sustainability and you got something going. Besides, covering those long warps is just great EDIT: just checked the setup in EFT and you're right, I got the numbers wrong. Although I still prefer the better cap stability of the mal. well, malediction has a role. long range tackler. amarr + inty + solo = crusader.
Caelum Dominus Invicta.	Posted - 2008.07.01 17:25:00 - [21] Originally by: Foocurr dude, the idea is to pop them before they realize you can track them at high speeds. if not, stalemate and you leave. this is not uncommon in inty fights. How, exactly, do you plan on "leaving" when you're only doing 5km/s (not to mention that you're likely webbed)?
BillyBong2 Amarr Imperativa	Posted - 2008.07.01 17:27:00 - [22] I was sitting here looking at EFT and my skills for both of the ships for an inty. I already have small spec to 4 and nothing with rockets except level 3, so I set EFT to all level 5 skills and wow, the 'sader just completely out DPSs the 'diction. I'll give you the hold and lock issue of the 'sader over the 'diction. Can lock them down but trying to hold them will be tough and they could MWD away before you kill them.
BillyBong2 Amarr Imperativa	Posted - 2008.07.01 17:41:00 - [23] OK, My crusader with my current skills can get me almost 3 minutes of cap and 7.7km with Poly Carbs in the rigs. According to the DPS calculations that I am doing the 'Sader with scorch is still 127 vs maxxing everything out of the with 'diction at 70 or just above.
Foocurr	Posted - 2008.07.01 17:46:00 - [24] Originally by: Caelum Dominus Originally by: Foocurr dude, the idea is to pop them before they realize you can track them at high speeds. if not, stalemate and you leave. this is not uncommon in inty fights. How, exactly, do you plan on "leaving" when you're only doing 5km/s (not to mention that you're likely webbed)? fly inties much? firstly, this isn't a max speed setup so i wouldn't fly it without a set of rogues and a zor's, much less any inty. So mine will be going 7.6km/s. secondly, getting out of scramble range in an inty fight is very easy. any 1/4 decent inty pilot can do this. finally, if you are webbed you fail. you shouldn't be in web range unless your opponent is entering hull/trying to get away. this setup's optimal gun range operates dangerously close to web range and due to its slower speed makes its survivability a bit lower than a speed setup. this is made up for by superb tracking. hope that helps.
Foocurr	Posted - 2008.07.01 17:50:00 - [25] Originally by: BillyBong2 OK, My crusader with my current skills can get me almost 3 minutes of cap and 7.7km with Poly Carbs in the rigs. According to the DPS calculations that I am doing the 'Sader with scorch is still 127 vs maxxing everything out of the with 'diction at 70 or just above. Check your optimal range. You wont want to go that close to a target, especially with 100m worth of rigs. Also, your DPS numbers are incorrect.
Caelum Dominus Invicta.	Posted - 2008.07.01 18:00:00 - [26] Edited by: Caelum Dominus on 01/07/2008 18:02:07 Quote: fly inties much? Yes - all the time. Quote: getting out of scramble range in an inty fight is very easy. I've yet to face anyone who can get away from my Crusader (then again, I fly with a more reasonable low-slot layout - ie. speed-enhancing modules exclusively). Just because people are able to run away from you doesn't mean that applies to everyone. Quote: finally, if you are webbed you fail. If you really think you can avoid another Interceptor's web doing a 15-16km orbit at such measly speeds, you clearly haven't flown Interceptors enough. Quote: dont forget. rockets fail to hit fast things and t2 rockets gimp speed/cap Rocket-fit Maledictions obviously have a web, d'uh.
Foocurr	Posted - 2008.07.01 18:18:00 - [27] Quote: I've yet to face anyone who can get away from my Crusader (then again, I fly with a more reasonable low-slot layout - ie. speed-enhancing modules exclusively). Just because people are able to run away from you doesn't mean that applies to everyone. I am able to run away when needed 100% of the time. I dunno, maybe you have an easy time finding noobs in inties.(there are a lot) I am not saying a speed fit crusader is not viable. This, however is a different setup. It does more DPS and has much higher tracking. Try it, you'll see it can roast other inties. Quote: If you really think you can avoid another Interceptor's web doing a 15-16km orbit at such measly speeds, you clearly haven't flown Interceptors enough. wow, shut up. i have flown interceptors a lot. I know what to engage. if i engage i know if i am killing it fast enough, if its too fast, or if its hitting me too hard. all solo setups have a window of opportunity. Quote: Rocket-fit Maledictions obviously have a web, d'uh. no rocket diction will beat my pulse sader 1v1. ever. 10km/s diction + less than 10km orbit(slow) + pulsesader(ubertracking) = dead diction. tbh, if im in pulsesader and i see malediction i load multifreq and charge lol.
BillyBong2 Amarr Imperativa	Posted - 2008.07.01 18:26:00 - [28] Originally by: Foocurr Edited by: Foocurr on 01/07/2008 17:58:10 Originally by: BillyBong2 OK, My crusader with my current skills can get me almost 3 minutes of cap and 7.7km with Poly Carbs in the rigs. According to the DPS calculations that I am doing the 'Sader with scorch is still 127 vs maxxing everything out of the with 'diction at 70 or just above. Check your optimal range. You wont want to go that close to a target, especially with 100m worth of rigs. Also, your DPS numbers are incorrect. dont forget. rockets fail to hit fast things and t2 rockets gimp speed/cap True about the rockets, their optimal may say 10.1 with my skills but I know they are probably only good to about 7 to 7.5km and the speed is true as well. As for the Crusader not sure how I can't get that close to as I either have to get within 10km to web or 9 km to scram - it is an either or decision at that point. How are the DPS numbers wrong - are you speaking to the crusaders? or the 'diction?
Foocurr	Posted - 2008.07.01 18:42:00 - [29] Originally by: BillyBong2 How are the DPS numbers wrong - are you speaking to the crusaders? or the 'diction? sader 2 x OD II 2 x TE II gistii btype 1mn disruptor II 4 x dual light pulse, scorch s 2x energy locus coord 107 dps(max skills) 17km optimal This was the setup in question, but i dont know if you were using a different one. The locus coord rigs fix your optimal and you need energy weapon rigging 3 and i believe awu5 to fit. speed fit rocket diction will get just under 10km/s before implants and do 66 dps with max skills out to 10km. sub out for 2 x BCU IIs = 96 dps, but you struggle for speed and the cpu to fit anything useful. also, your rockets explosion velocity is 3000m/s. :( sub out for 1 x BCU II = 81 dps, but again, you dont do any damage until your within 10km and have your target webbed, but you're probably in armor by then anyway. :) diction pilot conclusion = fit standard launchers, go real fast and stay the F out of web range so you can hold you target down for your GANG to kill it.
Dheorl The Scope	Posted - 2008.07.01 18:44:00 - [30] Whenever I see this setup I don't get why people don't just fly a proper long range inty instead.
Foocurr	Posted - 2008.07.01 18:48:00 - [31] Originally by: Dheorl Whenever I see this setup I don't get why people don't just fly a proper long range inty instead. cause its fun.
BillyBong2 Amarr Imperativa	Posted - 2008.07.01 18:57:00 - [32] Originally by: Foocurr Originally by: BillyBong2 How are the DPS numbers wrong - are you speaking to the crusaders? or the 'diction? OP Set-up Right, my setup was a bit different. However, thanks for the clarification I see exactly what you are talking about.
Foocurr	Posted - 2008.07.01 19:04:00 - [33] Originally by: BillyBong2 Originally by: Foocurr Originally by: BillyBong2 How are the DPS numbers wrong - are you speaking to the crusaders? or the 'diction? OP Set-up Right, my setup was a bit different. However, thanks for the clarification I see exactly what you are talking about. np, my most esteemed brosef.
Dheorl The Scope	Posted - 2008.07.01 19:31:00 - [34] Originally by: Foocurr Originally by: Dheorl Whenever I see this setup I don't get why people don't just fly a proper long range inty instead. cause its fun. But you fly it in pretty much exactly the same way you fly a long range inty... it just sin't as good.
Foocurr	Posted - 2008.07.01 19:44:00 - [35] Edited by: Foocurr on 01/07/2008 19:46:07 Originally by: Dheorl Originally by: Foocurr Originally by: Dheorl Whenever I see this setup I don't get why people don't just fly a proper long range inty instead. cause its fun. But you fly it in pretty much exactly the same way you fly a long range inty... it just sin't as good. sorry, but when people try to make a point by being this vague, it tells me they just aren't seeing reason why people would fit uncommon setups like this. PVP is not vague, its very specific and so should you be. as said before...the idea with the pulse setup is damage coupled with high tracking. its not the traditional long range inty setup. if you looked at the stats you'd see it can hit an inty mwd'ing with 9000m/s transversal velocity while being fast itself. Where does that come in handy? Get out and try it for yourself. edit: actually, no, dont do it. it doesn't work. long range setups are much better.
Dheorl The Scope	Posted - 2008.07.01 19:57:00 - [36] Originally by: Foocurr as said before...the idea with the pulse setup is damage coupled with high tracking. its not the traditional long range inty setup. if you looked at the stats you'd see it can hit an inty mwd'ing with 9000m/s transversal velocity while being fast itself. Where does that come in handy? Get out and try it for yourself. It doesn't do any higher damage than a long range setup and your never gona need to hit an inty with that much transversal, so what can it do that a long range setup can't do better?
Foocurr	Posted - 2008.07.01 20:10:00 - [37] Originally by: Dheorl It doesn't do any higher damage than a long range setup and your never gona need to hit an inty with that much transversal, so what can it do that a long range setup can't do better? sigh...more vagueness. please post the long range setup you speak of. thanks.
Dheorl The Scope	Posted - 2008.07.01 20:12:00 - [38] Originally by: Foocurr Originally by: Dheorl It doesn't do any higher damage than a long range setup and your never gona need to hit an inty with that much transversal, so what can it do that a long range setup can't do better? sigh...more vagueness. please post the long range setup you speak of. thanks. Why should I need to post a setup, all you'd do is shove the numbers into EFT, come up with exactly the same I have and also know what I fly.
Foocurr	Posted - 2008.07.01 20:20:00 - [39] Originally by: Dheorl Originally by: Foocurr Originally by: Dheorl It doesn't do any higher damage than a long range setup and your never gona need to hit an inty with that much transversal, so what can it do that a long range setup can't do better? sigh...more vagueness. please post the long range setup you speak of. thanks. Why should I need to post a setup, all you'd do is shove the numbers into EFT, come up with exactly the same I have and also know what I fly. umm...you referenced "a long range setup". just tell me what it is and i'll tell you what it doesn't do that mine does and vice versa. trust me, im sure your setup wont surprise me. its not hard. i know you can do it.
Caelum Dominus Invicta.	Posted - 2008.07.01 20:30:00 - [40] You'll see my point once you find someone in a Taranis with a clue.
Foocurr	Posted - 2008.07.01 20:33:00 - [41] Originally by: Caelum Dominus You'll see my point once you find someone in a Taranis with a clue. dude, i know. every ******* inty pilot knows. ranis with overheated web. so your point is not new.
Caelum Dominus Invicta.	Posted - 2008.07.01 20:38:00 - [42] Originally by: Foocurr Originally by: Caelum Dominus You'll see my point once you find someone in a Taranis with a clue. dude, i know. every ******* inty pilot knows. ranis with overheated web. so your point is not new. That doesn't mean it's less valid. You still didn't address why you're gimping yourself for tracking and range you don't need (... unless you're insisting on going up against cruisers, in which case there are obviously far better ship alternatives).
Dheorl The Scope	Posted - 2008.07.01 20:40:00 - [43] Originally by: Foocurr Originally by: Dheorl Originally by: Foocurr Originally by: Dheorl It doesn't do any higher damage than a long range setup and your never gona need to hit an inty with that much transversal, so what can it do that a long range setup can't do better? sigh...more vagueness. please post the long range setup you speak of. thanks. Why should I need to post a setup, all you'd do is shove the numbers into EFT, come up with exactly the same I have and also know what I fly. umm...you referenced "a long range setup". just tell me what it is and i'll tell you what it doesn't do that mine does and vice versa. trust me, im sure your setup wont surprise me. its not hard. i know you can do it. Tbh I'm gona have to mark you only a 3/10 for patronizing and a 1/10 for originality. I still don't get why there is any need for me to post a setup. I'm not completely blind or stupid and can easily see what that setup can do and can also see that a long range setup can do pretty much everything better. I don't need someone else picking it apart to tell me what I already know.
Foocurr	Posted - 2008.07.01 20:42:00 - [44] Originally by: Caelum Dominus (... unless you're insisting on going up against cruisers, in which case there are obviously far better ship alternatives). this is a crusader thread.
Foocurr	Posted - 2008.07.01 20:45:00 - [45] Originally by: Dheorl Originally by: Foocurr Originally by: Dheorl Originally by: Foocurr Originally by: Dheorl It doesn't do any higher damage than a long range setup and your never gona need to hit an inty with that much transversal, so what can it do that a long range setup can't do better? sigh...more vagueness. please post the long range setup you speak of. thanks. Why should I need to post a setup, all you'd do is shove the numbers into EFT, come up with exactly the same I have and also know what I fly. umm...you referenced "a long range setup". just tell me what it is and i'll tell you what it doesn't do that mine does and vice versa. trust me, im sure your setup wont surprise me. its not hard. i know you can do it. Tbh I'm gona have to mark you only a 3/10 for patronizing and a 1/10 for originality. I still don't get why there is any need for me to post a setup. I'm not completely blind or stupid and can easily see what that setup can do and can also see that a long range setup can do pretty much everything better. I don't need someone else picking it apart to tell me what I already know. you're afraid. i dunno why you dont post a setup. by now, with all the typing you've done you could have posted your setup three times over. makes me think you dont actually know what you're talking about.
Dheorl The Scope	Posted - 2008.07.01 20:47:00 - [46] Originally by: Foocurr Originally by: Dheorl Originally by: Foocurr Originally by: Dheorl Originally by: Foocurr Originally by: Dheorl It doesn't do any higher damage than a long range setup and your never gona need to hit an inty with that much transversal, so what can it do that a long range setup can't do better? sigh...more vagueness. please post the long range setup you speak of. thanks. Why should I need to post a setup, all you'd do is shove the numbers into EFT, come up with exactly the same I have and also know what I fly. umm...you referenced "a long range setup". just tell me what it is and i'll tell you what it doesn't do that mine does and vice versa. trust me, im sure your setup wont surprise me. its not hard. i know you can do it. Tbh I'm gona have to mark you only a 3/10 for patronizing and a 1/10 for originality. I still don't get why there is any need for me to post a setup. I'm not completely blind or stupid and can easily see what that setup can do and can also see that a long range setup can do pretty much everything better. I don't need someone else picking it apart to tell me what I already know. you're afraid. i dunno why you dont post a setup. by now, with all the typing you've done you could have posted your setup three times over. makes me think you dont actually know what you're talking about. The point is I don't see why I should give out information that I don't need or want to give, especially when it's not needed. If you want to carry on flying this setup than thats fine with me, I just don't think I'll be joining you.
Caelum Dominus Invicta.	Posted - 2008.07.01 20:47:00 - [47] Edited by: Caelum Dominus on 01/07/2008 20:50:12 Originally by: Foocurr this is a crusader thread. As such, it should relate to fits that complement the Crusader's role as an anti-Interceptor. It's painfully obvious that the ship is not designed to take on cruisers, and trying to accommodate this purpose leads to a fit full of fail. ... but hey, suit yourself. PS: Oh, and you still didn't adress why you're gimping yourself for range and tracking you don't need. Way to go.
Foocurr	Posted - 2008.07.01 20:59:00 - [48] Edited by: Foocurr on 01/07/2008 21:00:14 Originally by: Caelum Dominus Edited by: Caelum Dominus on 01/07/2008 20:50:12 Originally by: Foocurr this is a crusader thread. As such, it should relate to fits that complement the Crusader's role as an anti-Interceptor. It's painfully obvious that the ship is not designed to take on cruisers, and trying to accommodate this purpose leads to a fit full of fail. ... but hey, suit yourself. PS: Oh, and you still didn't adress why you're gimping yourself for range and tracking you don't need. Way to go. Well, i am assuming you mean only gimping range. since tracking is boosted, but you right, it doesn't work. Dont even try it. the reason to boost tracking is that you can do full damage while in orbit and also hit fast ships with a high transversal.
Caelum Dominus Invicta.	Posted - 2008.07.01 21:09:00 - [49] Originally by: Foocurr Well, i am assuming you mean only gimping range. since tracking is boosted, but you right, it doesn't work. Dont even try it. No, that's not what I mean. You're sacrificing speed (which you need) for tracking and range (which you don't need). Originally by: Foocurr the reason to boost tracking is that you can do full damage while in orbit and also hit fast ships with a high transversal. Right - for 90 seconds, that is, before your capacitor expires. If you're up against another fast ship, you can control transversal by going faster (... if your fit is decent, that is).
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.07.01 21:17:00 - [50] Edited by: AstroPhobic on 01/07/2008 21:20:13 Originally by: Dheorl The point is I don't see why I should give out information that I don't need or want to give, especially when it's not needed. If you want to carry on flying this setup than thats fine with me, I just don't think I'll be joining you. A quick google search shows the last few inty kills you had were using a claw and tech 1 artillery. Ouch. Further investigation shows you only fly the crow, raptor, and claw - none of which with t2 guns. Sir, leave this thread.
Foocurr	Posted - 2008.07.01 21:25:00 - [51] Originally by: Caelum Dominus Right - for 90 seconds, that is, before your capacitor expires. If you're up against another fast ship, you can control transversal by going faster (... if your fit is decent, that is). Lets say you average an actual 20dps for 90 seconds against 8000m/s transversal. 1800dmg will get you close to killing non plated/extended inties. a long range sader will not touch that dps against that transversal. Sure you can control transversal with more speed, but with less average damage can you kill your target as fast? lots of inty duels end in your target bailing out. My sader will overload mwd to 10km/s.
Dheorl The Scope	Posted - 2008.07.01 21:32:00 - [52] Edited by: Dheorl on 01/07/2008 21:35:34 Originally by: AstroPhobic Edited by: AstroPhobic on 01/07/2008 21:20:13 Originally by: Dheorl The point is I don't see why I should give out information that I don't need or want to give, especially when it's not needed. If you want to carry on flying this setup than thats fine with me, I just don't think I'll be joining you. A quick google search shows the last few inty kills you had were using a claw and tech 1 artillery. Ouch. Further investigation shows you only fly the crow, raptor, and claw - none of which with t2 guns. Sir, leave this thread. Look at the date, those just happen to be the most recent kills that have ended up on a killboard. I can fly every frig of any race and fly them well (frigs is what I do), the only ceptors I have ever lost have been to disconnects or bugs, I would have said that was a pretty decent track record. P.S. If your gona get into what killbaords say look at the guy I'm arguing with
Caelum Dominus Invicta.	Posted - 2008.07.01 21:33:00 - [53] Edited by: Caelum Dominus on 01/07/2008 21:33:33 Originally by: Foocurr Lets say you average an actual 20dps for 90 seconds against 8000m/s transversal. 1800dmg will get you close to killing non plated/extended inties. a long range sader will not touch that dps against that transversal. What? No, really - what? Fail. Originally by: Foocurr Sure you can control transversal with more speed, but with less average damage can you kill your target as fast? lots of inty duels end in your target bailing out. My sader will overload mwd to 10km/s. You'd think with the (random) numbers you presented above, you'd at least have a vague idea of game mechanics. Since there will be no transversal, you will obviously be doing way more damage than any tracking-enhanced fit with a ridiculous amount of transversal because you're too slow to control it. No, Interceptor duels that include a proper-fit Crusader never end in your target bailing out.
Foocurr	Posted - 2008.07.01 21:37:00 - [54] Originally by: Caelum Dominus ... 7.6km/s is plenty fast to control transversal in a fight, especially if your target is click orbit. btw, could you show what setup you use for solo, just curious.
Foocurr	Posted - 2008.07.01 21:39:00 - [55] Originally by: Dheorl P.S. If your gona get into what killbaords say look at the guy I'm arguing with i don't give a **** about kb stats. of my 4 characters, only 2 can be found on any killboard and it matters not.
Caelum Dominus Invicta.	Posted - 2008.07.01 21:43:00 - [56] Edited by: Caelum Dominus on 01/07/2008 21:44:19 Originally by: Foocurr Originally by: Caelum Dominus ... 7.6km/s is plenty fast to control transversal in a fight, especially if your target is click orbit. btw, could you show what setup you use for solo, just curious. 7.6km/s with 3% rogues, no rigs and two speed mods? I don't think so. Quote: 2x Overdrive Injector System II 2x Nanofiber Internal Structure II 1MN Microwarpdrive II Warp Disruptor II 4x Dual Light Pulse Laser II w/Scorch It's for (interceptor) duels only - 11km/s with low-grade snakes, absolutely murders anything but the Taranis.
Dheorl The Scope	Posted - 2008.07.01 21:43:00 - [57] Originally by: Foocurr Originally by: Dheorl P.S. If your gona get into what killbaords say look at the guy I'm arguing with i don't give a **** about kb stats. of my 4 characters, only 2 can be found on any killboard and it matters not. It wasn't directed at you, it was directed at the guy pulling up info from battleclinic about me.
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.07.01 21:45:00 - [58] Originally by: Dheorl Originally by: Foocurr Originally by: Dheorl P.S. If your gona get into what killbaords say look at the guy I'm arguing with i don't give a **** about kb stats. of my 4 characters, only 2 can be found on any killboard and it matters not. It wasn't directed at you, it was directed at the guy pulling up info from battleclinic about me. It was the TRI killboard actually, though I did peek at BC. TBH though, no recent BC inty kills + no corp = no recent inty kills. Unless you're only killing nubs, in which case it doesn't matter anyway.
Caelum Dominus Invicta.	Posted - 2008.07.01 21:50:00 - [59] Edited by: Caelum Dominus on 01/07/2008 21:50:11 Originally by: Foocurr wait, you're saying it doesn't go that fast or you're saying it can't dictate transversal? That it doesn't go that fast with 3% rogues, two speeds mods and no rigs. It's not even going to push 7km/s. EDIT: A visit to EFT later, it does 6.7km/s (and that's including Zor's).
Delencia Lakat	Posted - 2008.07.01 21:50:00 - [60] Because yes, if you want to go to specifics like "My X beats your Y" we might as well just say "My rapier can stop your inty and my dictor can bubble him up and we can kill your Y"
Foocurr	Posted - 2008.07.01 21:53:00 - [61] Originally by: Delencia Lakat One thing, this thread is supposed to be about a solo Crusader setup. Saying "Well this wins in inty vs. inty" or "This wins in inty vs. hauler" doesn't mean **. He's looking for one that's got some flexibility AND can take down other inties if flown well. so you're saying to contribute to this thread, we should not contribute? ****.
Foocurr	Posted - 2008.07.01 21:54:00 - [62] Originally by: Delencia Lakat Because yes, if you want to go to specifics like "My X beats your Y" we might as well just say "My rapier can stop your inty and my dictor can bubble him up and we can kill your Y" dude, go wash out your vagina somewhere else.
Foocurr	Posted - 2008.07.01 21:55:00 - [63] Edited by: Foocurr on 01/07/2008 21:54:54 Originally by: Caelum Dominus Edited by: Caelum Dominus on 01/07/2008 21:50:11 Originally by: Foocurr wait, you're saying it doesn't go that fast or you're saying it can't dictate transversal? That it doesn't go that fast with 3% rogues, two speeds mods and no rigs. It's not even going to push 7km/s. EDIT: A visit to EFT later, it does 6.7km/s (and that's including Zor's). well you may have missed the gistii b-type in my setup. and i was including zor's
Lili Killer	Posted - 2008.07.01 21:56:00 - [64] Originally by: Delencia Lakat One thing, this thread is supposed to be about a solo Crusader setup. Saying "Well this wins in inty vs. inty" or "This wins in inty vs. hauler" doesn't mean ****. He's looking for one that's got some flexibility AND can take down other inties if flown well. QFT that jeez when i check back in this tread i really wo9ndered if i had forgot to remove the wow forum link from my shortcut bar. pyramid quote repleys about the temperature on Pluto instead of earth. thank to the few who tried to answer my question and rest of you please do not post repleys on topic that where not made for them. i asked for a crusader setup and the needed skills for it but i got 95% pure crap here thank you so much. to any mod who sees this tread make me happy and close it please. this is ridiculous. Lili
Foocurr	Posted - 2008.07.01 21:58:00 - [65] Originally by: Lili Killer Originally by: Delencia Lakat One thing, this thread is supposed to be about a solo Crusader setup. Saying "Well this wins in inty vs. inty" or "This wins in inty vs. hauler" doesn't mean ****. He's looking for one that's got some flexibility AND can take down other inties if flown well. QFT that jeez when i check back in this tread i really wo9ndered if i had forgot to remove the wow forum link from my shortcut bar. pyramid quote repleys about the temperature on Pluto instead of earth. thank to the few who tried to answer my question and rest of you please do not post repleys on topic that where not made for them. i asked for a crusader setup and the needed skills for it but i got 95% pure crap here thank you so much. to any mod who sees this tread make me happy and close it please. this is ridiculous. Lili so you got what you needed and the thread evolved into a discussion. go whine about it somewhere else.
Delencia Lakat	Posted - 2008.07.01 21:59:00 - [66] Now I might be wrong but last time I checked, "discussion" of a ship in EVE didn't mean getting angry and telling people to clean their genitals?
Diomidis Amarr Mythos Corp RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.01 21:59:00 - [67] The locus rigged, dual TE II pulse Crusader is a really fun machine to fly... I have something around 70 KM in a Crusader. Surely I've tried a Dual Beam version with both Aurora S and Faction Standard/IR crystals for range and cap stability + sufficient tracking...nothing matches the Pulse version. If you want a fast tackling ceptor, the Maledition is better...better targeting range, better scram range, room for a webber...the Crow can be even easier to get around with...still I have no intentions cross-training for another Ceptor...I enjoy both the Malediction for large gangs, or the Crusader for out-of-boredom solo trips, few ppl gate camps etc. If you are an experienced inty pilot you know when and how to bail out. Unless something goes wrong or you make a bad judgement of the situation, the Crusader is reasonably fast with 2x OD II and a 1mn T2 MWD to outrun most threats, or warp off before even the fastest inty comes close to locking you. Also navigating manually with correct timing can help you get out of scram range 99% against other ceptors orbiting you: just like a 15-17km orbit is dangerously close to heated web ranges, a 20-23km orbit is very easily widened to >28km = out of harms way...and that's easy even without overheating your MWD from my experience. The ship is fun to fly. Period. The Ship smashes frigates. Period. Ok, the Ranis can do better dps and fits a webber thus VERY dangerous - that doesn't lessen the fact that the Pulse sader can comfortably fight outside even heated web-ranges against non-nanoed cruisers etc, with excellent tracking and dps. Cap stability is sufficient. Just needs decent skills and MWD pulsing, like 90% of all viable PvP fits...perma-running etc is a PvE thing...if you've failed to kill or get killed in a pulse sader before you cap out (not due to a Neut or something) you are really doing something wrong... Join the Biggest Greek Corp! www.Mythos-eve.com - Join Mythos Channel in game!
Delencia Lakat	Posted - 2008.07.01 22:02:00 - [68] Originally by: Diomidis The locus rigged, dual TE II pulse Crusader is a really fun machine to fly... I have something around 70 KM in a Crusader. Surely I've tried a Dual Beam version with both Aurora S and Faction Standard/IR crystals for range and cap stability + sufficient tracking...nothing matches the Pulse version. If you want a fast tackling ceptor, the Maledition is better...better targeting range, better scram range, room for a webber...the Crow can be even easier to get around with...still I have no intentions cross-training for another Ceptor...I enjoy both the Malediction for large gangs, or the Crusader for out-of-boredom solo trips, few ppl gate camps etc. If you are an experienced inty pilot you know when and how to bail out. Unless something goes wrong or you make a bad judgement of the situation, the Crusader is reasonably fast with 2x OD II and a 1mn T2 MWD to outrun most threats, or warp off before even the fastest inty comes close to locking you. Also navigating manually with correct timing can help you get out of scram range 99% against other ceptors orbiting you: just like a 15-17km orbit is dangerously close to heated web ranges, a 20-23km orbit is very easily widened to >28km = out of harms way...and that's easy even without overheating your MWD from my experience. The ship is fun to fly. Period. The Ship smashes frigates. Period. Ok, the Ranis can do better dps and fits a webber thus VERY dangerous - that doesn't lessen the fact that the Pulse sader can comfortably fight outside even heated web-ranges against non-nanoed cruisers etc, with excellent tracking and dps. Cap stability is sufficient. Just needs decent skills and MWD pulsing, like 90% of all viable PvP fits...perma-running etc is a PvE thing...if you've failed to kill or get killed in a pulse sader before you cap out (not due to a Neut or something) you are really doing something wrong... QF some serious T
Dheorl The Scope	Posted - 2008.07.01 22:07:00 - [69] Originally by: AstroPhobic Originally by: Dheorl Originally by: Foocurr Originally by: Dheorl P.S. If your gona get into what killbaords say look at the guy I'm arguing with i don't give a **** about kb stats. of my 4 characters, only 2 can be found on any killboard and it matters not. It wasn't directed at you, it was directed at the guy pulling up info from battleclinic about me. It was the TRI killboard actually, though I did peek at BC. TBH though, no recent BC inty kills + no corp = no recent inty kills. Unless you're only killing nubs, in which case it doesn't matter anyway. Thats one of the worst bits of logic I have ever heard on EVE forums. Somebody give this guy a medal.
Foocurr	Posted - 2008.07.01 22:17:00 - [70] Originally by: Delencia Lakat Now I might be wrong but last time I checked, "discussion" of a ship in EVE didn't mean getting angry and telling people to clean their genitals? it seems you didn't get all the sand out of there.
Dheorl The Scope	Posted - 2008.07.01 22:19:00 - [71] Originally by: Foocurr Originally by: Delencia Lakat Now I might be wrong but last time I checked, "discussion" of a ship in EVE didn't mean getting angry and telling people to clean their genitals? it seems you didn't get all the sand out of there. Just out of curiosity, why are you being such a jerk? If you are certain that your idea is best and you are right you should easily be able to win the argument without resorting to measures such as that.
Caelum Dominus Invicta.	Posted - 2008.07.01 22:19:00 - [72] /thread.
Foocurr	Posted - 2008.07.01 22:28:00 - [73] Originally by: Dheorl Originally by: Foocurr Originally by: Delencia Lakat Now I might be wrong but last time I checked, "discussion" of a ship in EVE didn't mean getting angry and telling people to clean their genitals? it seems you didn't get all the sand out of there. Just out of curiosity, why are you being such a jerk? If you are certain that your idea is best and you are right you should easily be able to win the argument without resorting to measures such as that. never said it was best. simply threw it out there. was more than you did: "i dont wanna give you my setup cause then you'll know". then i was extracting some nice info from the invicta dude when all of the sudden some folks got butthurt about the thread blooming into a discussion after the op got his question answered like 3 posts into it. i dunno, people start getting emotional and all hell breaks loose. lighten up Francis.
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.07.01 22:29:00 - [74] Originally by: Dheorl Thats one of the worst bits of logic I have ever heard on EVE forums. Somebody give this guy a medal. You don't appear to be comprehending. A corp or alliance KB would have your name tied to (their) loss mails. A personal or corp KB would have your name tied to killmails. BC would have your name tied to (their) loss mails. So if you were attacking a decently known corp, your name would pop up. If you were in a corp/alliance, your name would pop up. If you killed some guys who weren't in a decently known corp, your name would pop up in BC. However, none of these. Maybe you're only killing russians or macros.
Dheorl The Scope	Posted - 2008.07.01 22:59:00 - [75] Originally by: AstroPhobic Originally by: Dheorl Thats one of the worst bits of logic I have ever heard on EVE forums. Somebody give this guy a medal. You don't appear to be comprehending. A corp or alliance KB would have your name tied to (their) loss mails. A personal or corp KB would have your name tied to killmails. BC would have your name tied to (their) loss mails. So if you were attacking a decently known corp, your name would pop up. If you were in a corp/alliance, your name would pop up. If you killed some guys who weren't in a decently known corp, your name would pop up in BC. However, none of these. Maybe you're only killing russians or macros. For starters battle clinic isn't linked to every killboard in EVE. Also, why would my name pop up if I killed guys in a corp who didn't themselves have a kb and I didn't bother posting it? Not everyone feels the need to post every kill they get in an attempt to boost their e-peen.
Terena Darkeen Amarr SECTION-X	Posted - 2008.07.01 23:03:00 - [76] 4x Light beam lasers II ( infra red crystals ) 1 mn mwd II ( I prefer gisty b type ) 24 km scram 2x overdrive II 1x nanofiber 1x tracking enchenter II Rig 2 x CCC I know a expensive setup but it works pretty well. You need advanced weapon upgrades 4 and elektronic and engineering 5 to fit this. Orbit at 14 km your speed will throw you to 18 km, 7.5 k orbit speed and you can hit with % 80 accurancy. Cap stable also so every think is perma run. No need to a web since you will faster ad more agile than most inty so they will never able to run away from you, I'm flying intercepter most of the time. No offence but those close range pulse setups is a joke. What are you doing orbit and pray that targe wont have a web? I accept even as webbed many ship cant hit a inty but almsot every ship in this game has drones. Sader is fastest intercepter ( it also holds to interpeter class speed record ) Crow and malediction is really bad in inty vs inty fights since at high speeds rockets and standar missiles dont deal any damage. Most of the taranis pilots use blaster setup they are deadly in close range but no tranis enter that range yet since we orbited each other and tracking other inties is easier cause of radial velocity. Do not listen people that telling train this. I can fly crow, ranis and sader and sader is my favorite all the time ___________________________________________________ Hoist the colors
Foocurr	Posted - 2008.07.01 23:03:00 - [77] Originally by: Dheorl Originally by: AstroPhobic Originally by: Dheorl Thats one of the worst bits of logic I have ever heard on EVE forums. Somebody give this guy a medal. You don't appear to be comprehending. A corp or alliance KB would have your name tied to (their) loss mails. A personal or corp KB would have your name tied to killmails. BC would have your name tied to (their) loss mails. So if you were attacking a decently known corp, your name would pop up. If you were in a corp/alliance, your name would pop up. If you killed some guys who weren't in a decently known corp, your name would pop up in BC. However, none of these. Maybe you're only killing russians or macros. For starters battle clinic isn't linked to every killboard in EVE. Also, why would my name pop up if I killed guys in a corp who didn't themselves have a kb and I didn't bother posting it? Not everyone feels the need to post every kill they get in an attempt to boost their e-peen. yeah but he might be trolling you bud.
Foocurr	Posted - 2008.07.01 23:10:00 - [78] Edited by: Foocurr on 01/07/2008 23:12:03 Originally by: Terena Darkeen Orbit at 14 km your speed will throw you to 18 km, 7.5 k orbit speed and you can hit with % 80 accurancy. Cap stable also so every think is perma run. No offence but those close range pulse setups is a joke. What are you doing orbit and pray that targe wont have a web? You'll see the pulse setup mentioned hits at the same ranges you mentioned and hit more often for more damage. read
Terena Darkeen Amarr SECTION-X	Posted - 2008.07.01 23:48:00 - [79] Originally by: Foocurr Edited by: Foocurr on 01/07/2008 23:12:03 Originally by: Terena Darkeen Orbit at 14 km your speed will throw you to 18 km, 7.5 k orbit speed and you can hit with % 80 accurancy. Cap stable also so every think is perma run. No offence but those close range pulse setups is a joke. What are you doing orbit and pray that targe wont have a web? You'll see the pulse setup mentioned hits at the same ranges you mentioned and hit more often for more damage. read Yep they can problem is with my speed, I can outrun warrior IIs, no turret can track me and most importantly I receive no damage drom missiles. Is that pulse setup can do that ? And while there are HAC and other ships with poly rigs going like 6 k around like vagabons, ishurs, zealots I prefer to kill a target slower but safe. It is a t2 ship each one cost more than 10 M even with a decent fit. When CCP start reasonable insrence money for t2 losses, I promise to fit my saders with pulses. An even with beams it has more DPS than a crow. People wont matter killing slow in a crow so I wont in my sader ___________________________________________________ Hoist the colors
Leon 026 Caldari Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.07.02 06:24:00 - [80] Originally by: Terena Darkeen 4x Light beam lasers II ( infra red crystals ) 1 mn mwd II ( I prefer gisty b type ) 24 km scram 2x overdrive II 1x nanofiber 1x tracking enchenter II Rig 2 x CCC I know a expensive setup but it works pretty well. You need advanced weapon upgrades 4 and elektronic and engineering 5 to fit this. Orbit at 14 km your speed will throw you to 18 km, 7.5 k orbit speed and you can hit with % 80 accurancy. Cap stable also so every think is perma run. No need to a web since you will faster ad more agile than most inty so they will never able to run away from you, I'm flying intercepter most of the time. No offence but those close range pulse setups is a joke. What are you doing orbit and pray that targe wont have a web? I accept even as webbed many ship cant hit a inty but almsot every ship in this game has drones. Sader is fastest intercepter ( it also holds to interpeter class speed record ) Crow and malediction is really bad in inty vs inty fights since at high speeds rockets and standar missiles dont deal any damage. Most of the taranis pilots use blaster setup they are deadly in close range but no tranis enter that range yet since we orbited each other and tracking other inties is easier cause of radial velocity. Do not listen people that telling train this. I can fly crow, ranis and sader and sader is my favorite all the time The dual-light beam crusader setup is generally seen as the most optimal anti-interceptor and general purpose 'sader setup in general, yea. I'd usually recommend 'sader pilots to use dual-light beams as well. While pulse weapons do more damage, in inty-fights as well as regular inty-PvP, range dictation is half the battle, so the dual-light beams give a huge advantage to that. Problem is that its not exactly a solo setup... well, that could be argued that inties in general aren't exactly known to be solo ships to take out heavy targets. Just because they can do so doesn't generally mean that they are designed for that. Concerning speed though, I don't think that the 'sader holding the speed record is really that advantageous. I've tested out a basic 'sader setup to fly at 17k/s, but I noticed myself manually reducing my speed to 4k/s for it to be viable in combat (in a dogfight situation mind you), so really, flying an interceptor with a top speed of 17k and only using 4k-5k in combat is a whole lot of wasted speed that could be better spent elsewhere on other mods. And oh, crow's are definately over-rated. ------- Leon 026 Once I was fallen, now I have wings
Boz Well	Posted - 2008.07.02 06:47:00 - [81] This thread entertains. I've always thought there should be an arena associated with the forums to settle disagreements. Mitnal will just declare a contest, force you both to buy saders and fit them with your own fit, and duel to the death. Well... at least I can dream.
Dheorl The Scope	Posted - 2008.07.02 08:46:00 - [82] Originally by: Leon 026 And oh, crow's are definately over-rated. Just had to pick up on this because I've been out of crows for a while and have just bought a new one, so why do you think they are over-rated?
Terena Darkeen Amarr SECTION-X	Posted - 2008.07.02 11:01:00 - [83] Crow is overrated because : Every intercepter can do what a crow do When it comes against a nano target crow and malediction hardly deal damage Crow is slower than most intercepter I can buy 2 crusader for the price of 1 crow Only advantage of crow is against newbie miners :) A sader and a ranis with that much weapon on them scare them whne you swaped, but a crow looks so innocent ___________________________________________________ Hoist the colors
Leon 026 Caldari Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.07.02 11:16:00 - [84] Edited by: Leon 026 on 02/07/2008 11:18:33 Originally by: Dheorl Just had to pick up on this because I've been out of crows for a while and have just bought a new one, so why do you think they are over-rated? After flying them for more than 2 years, there's a lot faults with the Crow's design and how it handles several things. The most glaring issue with the crow is the side-effect from the polycarb/nano fad that has indirectly nerfed crows - missile velocity / missile explosion velocity -- The problem with nano/polycarbs is that now that the average interceptor speed is no longer 3.5-4.2k/s like it was during the Cold War, current average speeds are over 5k, and over 10k in specialized inty pilots. The issue is that in some cases, missile speed is simply not fast enough to actually "hit" the target. With max skills, a crow's missile velocity is 8,237.5m/s - which is enough to "hit" the average inty, and probably not on a faster-than average inty. Now bear in mind that when firing at a static target, you'll have quite a decent range, but if the target is moving, the total range is maybe half. I don't know the exact math, but against a target that's moving directly away, the range is nowhere near its maximum range. Now assume you hit the target, you'll have to take into account its signature radius and your missile explosion velocity (exp.v) to work out the damage. We'll ignore signature radius because no ship with a MWD on will have a sig radius smaller than the missile's base explosion radius. However, the base exp.v on an untrained pilot is 1,750m/s, and roughly about 2.5k/s on a trained inty pilot. Thats exactly half the speed of an 'average' interceptor. Missiles usually has about 800m/s window to do about half damage, but the problem is that against an average inty, 2.5k/s is still 2.5k/s off of 5k/s, thus you're not only past the 'half-damage' window, but its more than likely that you'll do close to 0.1-10 damage per missile, when you should be doing about 70'ish with bloodclaws. Against a target moving at 6-7k+, then with regular missiles you'll be effectively doing 0 damage. The solution (in theory) is to use either a) a web, or b) precision light missiles. Precision light missiles (precs) have a base untrained exp.v of 3,000m/s. With skills we'll say about 4.5k/s. 4.5/s should still do about 4/5th damage to 5k/s average inties, against faster-than-average interceptors that do 8k+, you can forget damaging it if its flying directly away from you. Not only that, each missile you load you're taking a 7% velocity hit. Conclusion : precision light missiles are simply aren't that great, even WITH max missile skills (which consequently I do have, as well as light missile spec V). Basically, you're dumping a whole lot of training time in order to barely damage "average" speed-fitted interceptors. But that's just for dogfighting. Against bigger targets light battleships, then the crow's DPS isn't even that amazing. 68 dps or so I think? You could potentially hit 100 dps with the crow if you resort to using officer/faction BCUs and Caldari Navy-issue light missile launchers (T1). While using CN light missile launchers, you forfeit the ability to use precision lights, gimping anti-frigate/inty completely, for a measly 100dps... which in all honesty you could've simply switched to a blasteranis or railranis that does the anti-cruiser job more efficiently for a fraction of the cost. For tackling, you could spend an extra 100mil on polycarbs, maybe another 170mil for a gistii a-type, then another further 700mil+ on snakes to have the 'invulnicrow' with more zoomzoom than a Mazda commercial. An Ares with the same investment has more scram range, and can do 28k/s if you really -have- to go that fast. Or, you could just spend 600k on a rifter and tackle just a well. The only reason why I fly the crow these days is mainly because I've spent 2.5years flying the crow, and I might as well make use of all the knowledge I've gained... and I like how it looks. ------- Leon 026 Once I was fallen, now I have wings
Diomidis Amarr Mythos Corp RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.02 11:20:00 - [85] Missiles make it seem easier, as they allow you to fight further away, an possibly even out of enemies scram and neut range too. You just dial in orbit to compensate for your speed and go-round-round slowly popping things, most of which even a fast T1 frig could "speed tank". When fighting another ceptor or whatever bigger and nanoed, practice proves that things are far from "easier" in a Crow. It's still a decent ceptor, perhaps better that a crusader for all-around tackling as I've said, but Crusader and Taranis fulfill their own roles just fine. Join the Biggest Greek Corp! www.Mythos-eve.com - Join Mythos Channel in game!
Reginvalt	Posted - 2008.07.02 13:15:00 - [86] What can do Crusader vs Rail Taranis? `
Caelum Dominus Invicta.	Posted - 2008.07.02 13:27:00 - [87] Originally by: Reginvalt What can do Crusader vs Rail Taranis? Not much, although it might be able to kill it first with great skills and overheating.
Take Enemy Amarr Armada.	Posted - 2008.07.02 16:43:00 - [88] Originally by: Foocurr Originally by: BillyBong2 How are the DPS numbers wrong - are you speaking to the crusaders? or the 'diction? sader 2 x OD II 2 x TE II gistii btype 1mn disruptor II 4 x dual light pulse, scorch s 2x energy locus coord 107 dps(max skills) 17km optimal This was the setup in question, but i dont know if you were using a different one. The locus coord rigs fix your optimal and you need energy weapon rigging 3 and i believe awu5 to fit. speed fit rocket diction will get just under 10km/s before implants and do 66 dps with max skills out to 10km. sub out for 2 x BCU IIs = 96 dps, but you struggle for speed and the cpu to fit anything useful. also, your rockets explosion velocity is 3000m/s. :( sub out for 1 x BCU II = 81 dps, but again, you dont do any damage until your within 10km and have your target webbed, but you're probably in armor by then anyway. :) diction pilot conclusion = fit standard launchers, go real fast and stay the F out of web range so you can hold you target down for your GANG to kill it. Can be done with AWU IV and a regular 1MN MWD II (capout is less though obviously).
Marcus Druallis Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.02 17:00:00 - [89] Originally by: Foocurr Edited by: Foocurr on 01/07/2008 17:58:10 Originally by: BillyBong2 OK, My crusader with my current skills can get me almost 3 minutes of cap and 7.7km with Poly Carbs in the rigs. According to the DPS calculations that I am doing the 'Sader with scorch is still 127 vs maxxing everything out of the with 'diction at 70 or just above. Check your optimal range. You wont want to go that close to a target, especially with 100m worth of rigs. Also, your DPS numbers are incorrect. dont forget. rockets fail to hit fast things and t2 rockets gimp speed/cap I got 8km/s with a javelin malediction. And I only have 1 polycarb fitted... --
Straife North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.07.02 19:22:00 - [90] Originally by: Marcus Druallis I got 8km/s with a javelin malediction. And I only have 1 polycarb fitted... And your damage against another inty without a faction web is...
Foocurr	Posted - 2008.07.02 19:46:00 - [91] Originally by: Terena Darkeen Yep they can problem is with my speed, I can outrun warrior IIs, no turret can track me and most importantly I receive no damage drom missiles. Is that pulse setup can do that ? And while there are HAC and other ships with poly rigs going like 6 k around like vagabons, ishurs, zealots I prefer to kill a target slower but safe. It is a t2 ship each one cost more than 10 M even with a decent fit. When CCP start reasonable insrence money for t2 losses, I promise to fit my saders with pulses. An even with beams it has more DPS than a crow. People wont matter killing slow in a crow so I wont in my sader Well, this particular pulse setup will run me to 7.6km/s.(with my implants and perfect nav skills). Consider your speed at a ~18km orbit to be around 5km/s+. this, coupled with interceptor 5, should make you able to speed tank targets that you choose to engage. There are obvious ones you'll want to avoid. HACs with high tracking or speed, precision missile spewers, and the general heavy nuet/long range webber. Drone boats should be particularly vulnerable to the pulse setup as it handles drones nice and quick leaving a defenseless target. tbh a crow is like a steak dinner for pulse sader.
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.07.02 20:05:00 - [92] Originally by: Dheorl For starters battle clinic isn't linked to every killboard in EVE. Also, why would my name pop up if I killed guys in a corp who didn't themselves have a kb and I didn't bother posting it? Not everyone feels the need to post every kill they get in an attempt to boost their e-peen. I search on both BC and google, where the TRI board picked up. Anyway I'm following the logic that serious pvpers = acceptable kills, in which serious pvpers have their own board. Most boards force their pilots to post all kills and losses. But whatever, enough OT.
Foocurr	Posted - 2008.07.02 20:13:00 - [93] Originally by: AstroPhobic Originally by: Dheorl For starters battle clinic isn't linked to every killboard in EVE. Also, why would my name pop up if I killed guys in a corp who didn't themselves have a kb and I didn't bother posting it? Not everyone feels the need to post every kill they get in an attempt to boost their e-peen. I search on both BC and google, where the TRI board picked up. Anyway I'm following the logic that serious pvpers = acceptable kills, in which serious pvpers have their own board. Most boards force their pilots to post all kills and losses. But whatever, enough OT. who the F cares? get out.
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.07.02 20:25:00 - [94] Originally by: Foocurr who the F cares? get out. Please. I was discussing the strength of his interceptor knowledge, which he claims to know lots about. It directly affects the conversation/argument and the viability of his claims. Maybe you'll understand when you get a 20 page long thread of race/module/ship discussion, and every page there's a guy claiming he knows everything about this and it's balanced, when in reality he doesn't even use said race/module/ship. People claiming to be all knowledgeable about EvE when reality is far from it.
Foocurr	Posted - 2008.07.02 20:41:00 - [95] Originally by: AstroPhobic ... Ok, but most of us don't need to look at killboards to determine if someone knows what they are talking about or not. Also, you coming in and being the KB police disrupts the discussion more than whoever you are claiming has so-called insufficient pvp experience to speak on the matters of the thread. ...but, since we are off-topic now anyway... Nice ranis fit
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.07.02 20:44:00 - [96] Originally by: Foocurr Ok, but most of us don't need to look at killboards to determine if someone knows what they are talking about or not. Sorry I haven't ever fought with or against Dheorl. Ranis was a ninja ratting fit, but that's besides the point. I never claimed to know anything about interceptors. PS, 7 months ago.
Foocurr	Posted - 2008.07.02 20:49:00 - [97] Originally by: AstroPhobic Originally by: Foocurr Ok, but most of us don't need to look at killboards to determine if someone knows what they are talking about or not. Sorry I haven't ever fought with or against Dheorl. Ranis was a ninja ratting fit, but that's besides the point. I never claimed to know anything about interceptors. PS, 7 months ago. suuuuuuuure.
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.07.02 20:53:00 - [98] Originally by: Foocurr Originally by: AstroPhobic Originally by: Foocurr Ok, but most of us don't need to look at killboards to determine if someone knows what they are talking about or not. Sorry I haven't ever fought with or against Dheorl. Ranis was a ninja ratting fit, but that's besides the point. I never claimed to know anything about interceptors. PS, 7 months ago. suuuuuuuure. It's exhilarating, ratting in a taranis. The DPS is nice (better than flying a minnie BS.. lol) and you really have to learn how to weave and dodge fire as a ceptor pilot.
Foocurr	Posted - 2008.07.02 21:25:00 - [99] Originally by: AstroPhobic Originally by: Foocurr Originally by: AstroPhobic Originally by: Foocurr Ok, but most of us don't need to look at killboards to determine if someone knows what they are talking about or not. Sorry I haven't ever fought with or against Dheorl. Ranis was a ninja ratting fit, but that's besides the point. I never claimed to know anything about interceptors. PS, 7 months ago. suuuuuuuure. It's exhilarating, ratting in a taranis. The DPS is nice (better than flying a minnie BS.. lol) and you really have to learn how to weave and dodge fire as a ceptor pilot. now i know you're full of it cause ratting is never exhilarating.
Dheorl The Scope	Posted - 2008.07.02 21:33:00 - [100] Originally by: Leon 026 The solution (in theory) is to use either a) a web So whats wrong with this solution? I've had a reasonable experience with crows and I've always found that I have enough dps to kill cruisers and can just web ceptors, so to me they are the perfect ceptor. Meh, anyways, back to saders.
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.07.02 22:45:00 - [101] Originally by: Foocurr now i know you're full of it cause ratting is never exhilarating. At the time, that taranis fit would be close to 25m. There's something exciting about the possibility of losing it if I flied in a straight line for a few seconds. The web frigates make it exciting too, you have to fight them off quickly so you don't pop.
Dheorl The Scope	Posted - 2008.07.02 22:58:00 - [102] Originally by: Foocurr tbh a crow is like a steak dinner for pulse sader. Wanna try that theory out against my new crow setup some day?
Foocurr	Posted - 2008.07.02 23:32:00 - [103] Originally by: Dheorl Originally by: Foocurr tbh a crow is like a steak dinner for pulse sader. Wanna try that theory out against my new crow setup some day? Sure. meet me in Doril in 45 minutes.
Dheorl The Scope	Posted - 2008.07.02 23:40:00 - [104] Originally by: Foocurr Originally by: Dheorl Originally by: Foocurr tbh a crow is like a steak dinner for pulse sader. Wanna try that theory out against my new crow setup some day? Sure. meet me in Doril in 45 minutes. The "some day" not being today, a) because I can't get on for any amount of time atm and b) because I lost all my implants and haven't had a chance to replace them yet. I'll come and say hi soon though.
Stuart Price Caldari The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2008.07.02 23:43:00 - [105] Crow is over-rated because the Crusader and Taranis are better combat inties. If you use your Crow for tackling, then the Malediction, Ares and Stiletto and better at that. The Raptor is just plain rubbish imho. I flew one for a bit, for a laugh. Then I got a malediction and a 'sader. "I got soul but I'm not a soldier"
Dheorl The Scope	Posted - 2008.07.02 23:50:00 - [106] Edited by: Dheorl on 02/07/2008 23:54:37 Originally by: Stuart Price Crow is over-rated because the Crusader and Taranis are better combat inties. If you use your Crow for tackling, then the Malediction, Ares and Stiletto and better at that. The Raptor is just plain rubbish imho. I flew one for a bit, for a laugh. Then I got a malediction and a 'sader. IMO the crow is easily the best for fighting anything apart from another ceptor, against another ceptor it isn't enough worse than ranis or sader that it's other fighting abilities don't make up for it. After looking at crow in EFT for the first time I'm curious, why does it have such little structure? (I've never realised before because I've never got to that point in combat before) but I mean it's even got less than the raptor, and a good 200 less than the minmatar ceptors. Not complaining as such, it just seems a bit odd.
Foocurr	Posted - 2008.07.03 01:35:00 - [107] Originally by: Dheorl Originally by: Foocurr Originally by: Dheorl Originally by: Foocurr tbh a crow is like a steak dinner for pulse sader. Wanna try that theory out against my new crow setup some day? Sure. meet me in Doril in 45 minutes. The "some day" not being today, a) because I can't get on for any amount of time atm and b) because I lost all my implants and haven't had a chance to replace them yet. I'll come and say hi soon though. chicken
Dheorl The Scope	Posted - 2008.07.03 01:38:00 - [108] Originally by: Foocurr Originally by: Dheorl Originally by: Foocurr Originally by: Dheorl Originally by: Foocurr tbh a crow is like a steak dinner for pulse sader. Wanna try that theory out against my new crow setup some day? Sure. meet me in Doril in 45 minutes. The "some day" not being today, a) because I can't get on for any amount of time atm and b) because I lost all my implants and haven't had a chance to replace them yet. I'll come and say hi soon though. chicken Like I said, I'll come say hi soon, I'll still fight you, just not now.
Stuart Price Caldari The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2008.07.03 04:01:00 - [109] Edited by: Stuart Price on 03/07/2008 04:05:18 Edited by: Stuart Price on 03/07/2008 04:02:21 My experience at fighting against Crows (and using Crows for that matter) points to the following: Light missiles just don't have enough explosion velocity to do appreciable damage (or any damage worth noticing in fact) to another interceptor fighting outside web range. As opposed to a pulse-sader which easily tracks and hits hard enough to bring it down fairly quickly. If the crow burns in for a web, it's taking the risk that it's combination of dps and EHP is greater than its opponents. A Crusader has more EHP and a lot more dps. Against a Taranis fitted with blasters, coming into web range is just suicide. Staying out of web range of a good 'ranis pilot it very difficult. The Crow is easy to fly, so it gets bonus points for that. It can also just kite anything with inadequate tracking making it safer when engaging larger targets. Against a competent 'sader or 'ranis pilot the best the average Crow can hope for is escape. In a dogfight, the odds are stacked against it. Not saying it can't be done, but it IS very hard. It's not always a great indicator, but on Sisi I took a Crow into FFA5 and didn't kill much before a Harpy came in and toasted me (although I did kill a badly fit and very slow Taranis). A few days later I went in with a pulse-sader and had a whale of a time. Toasted four Crows in short order (two of them at the same time, 2 v 1) until a seriously good 'ranis pilot got me webbed and ruined my fun :p "I got soul but I'm not a soldier"
Dheorl The Scope	Posted - 2008.07.03 10:23:00 - [110] I do have to admit if it became just a slugfest in webrange between my crow and one of those pulse saders it would be worryingly close and would prob boil down to how much damage he did to me on approach. It's got more effective HP than me by quite a way but I do outdamage it so it would certainly be a close one. Also staying at the edge of webrange against a ranis can be done (as long as he hasn't pimped it but how often do you see one of those), I've admitadly never tried it in the crow but I've managed it in my stiletto which is considerably slower.
Leon 026 Caldari Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.07.03 10:59:00 - [111] Edited by: Leon 026 on 03/07/2008 11:02:10 Originally by: Dheorl Originally by: Leon 026 The solution (in theory) is to use either a) a web So whats wrong with this solution? I've had a reasonable experience with crows and I've always found that I have enough dps to kill cruisers and can just web ceptors, so to me they are the perfect ceptor. Meh, anyways, back to saders. I say theory because using webs in a high-speed dogfight is more improbable than guarenteed web-kill. Two inties dogfighting and maneuvering at 10k+, with a typical fight zone of 200km (+/- 100km) across, and you have a 10km web, the likelyhood of actually getting within 10km and getting the web and actually holding on to it long enough for the inty to noticeably become tangled (don't forget the time for human reaction) makes webbing incredibly difficult on a reliable basis at extreme high speed fights. At 6-7k/s its obviously easier, but when you're hitting the 10km/s+ fighting zones, its still tricky to get into warp disruptor range for a reliable amount of time, let alone webbing range. Webbing is certainly possible and doable, its just in some engagements, its either improbable or near-impossible depending on the level of dogfighting. Another important point is that a crow is designed (usually, unless its a rocket-crow) to be a long range interceptor. Having long-range potential, and then ignoring that to engage in close-range web-range seems a bit counter-intuitive. Also remember, if you can web the guy, its most likely that he can too - thus you're taking a long range inty into a short-range fight, which could potentially turn into a short-range slugfest, which can be incredibly disadvantageous to the crow. ------- Leon 026 Once I was fallen, now I have wings
Stuart Price Caldari The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2008.07.03 13:12:00 - [112] Originally by: Dheorl I do have to admit if it became just a slugfest in webrange between my crow and one of those pulse saders it would be worryingly close and would prob boil down to how much damage he did to me on approach. It's got more effective HP than me by quite a way but I do outdamage it so it would certainly be a close one. Also staying at the edge of webrange against a ranis can be done (as long as he hasn't pimped it but how often do you see one of those), I've admitadly never tried it in the crow but I've managed it in my stiletto which is considerably slower. The only way you outdamage a t2 pulse-sader with a Crow is to use 3 damage mods and Bloodclaw Fury missiles. OR an obscenely expensive faction fit. With max skills, 3 damage mods and the t2 high damage missiles you get a max dps of 108. The Crusader setup I run with has 105 - with my skills. Volley damage != dps "I got soul but I'm not a soldier"
Dheorl The Scope	Posted - 2008.07.03 13:34:00 - [113] Edited by: Dheorl on 03/07/2008 13:34:30 With all lvl 5 skills my crow gets 118 dps (or 132 if I alter the setup to take on ceptors rather than bigger stuff), the sader setup mentioned in this thread gets 107 with max skills.
Foocurr	Posted - 2008.07.03 16:07:00 - [114] Edited by: Foocurr on 03/07/2008 16:09:20 Originally by: Dheorl Edited by: Dheorl on 03/07/2008 13:34:30 With all lvl 5 skills my crow gets 118 dps (or 132 if I alter the setup to take on ceptors rather than bigger stuff), the sader setup mentioned in this thread gets 107 with max skills. how fast is this setup? missiles or rockets? tbh, i think you are talking out your arse. edit: to achieve that dps you need t2 rocket launchers and 3x BCUs...so????
Dheorl The Scope	Posted - 2008.07.03 16:08:00 - [115] Originally by: Foocurr Originally by: Dheorl Edited by: Dheorl on 03/07/2008 13:34:30 With all lvl 5 skills my crow gets 118 dps (or 132 if I alter the setup to take on ceptors rather than bigger stuff), the sader setup mentioned in this thread gets 107 with max skills. how fast is this setup? missiles or rockets? tbh, i think you are talking out your arse. Rockets and with gistii b-type will go a bit over 7km/s.
Foocurr	Posted - 2008.07.03 16:10:00 - [116] Originally by: Dheorl Originally by: Foocurr Originally by: Dheorl Edited by: Dheorl on 03/07/2008 13:34:30 With all lvl 5 skills my crow gets 118 dps (or 132 if I alter the setup to take on ceptors rather than bigger stuff), the sader setup mentioned in this thread gets 107 with max skills. how fast is this setup? missiles or rockets? tbh, i think you are talking out your arse. Rockets and with gistii b-type will go a bit over 7km/s. edit: to achieve that dps you need t2 rocket launchers and 3x BCUs...so????
Dheorl The Scope	Posted - 2008.07.03 16:11:00 - [117] Originally by: Foocurr Originally by: Dheorl Originally by: Foocurr Originally by: Dheorl Edited by: Dheorl on 03/07/2008 13:34:30 With all lvl 5 skills my crow gets 118 dps (or 132 if I alter the setup to take on ceptors rather than bigger stuff), the sader setup mentioned in this thread gets 107 with max skills. how fast is this setup? missiles or rockets? tbh, i think you are talking out your arse. Rockets and with gistii b-type will go a bit over 7km/s. edit: to achieve that dps you need t2 rocket launchers and 3x BCUs...so???? No, you need t2 rocket launchers, faction rockets and 1 BCU, oh, and don't forget the gun hardpoint the crow has.
Dheorl The Scope	Posted - 2008.07.03 16:22:00 - [118] Edited by: Dheorl on 03/07/2008 16:21:54 Originally by: Foocurr Originally by: Dheorl ... at any rate, rocket crow is great for hitting larger ships, but against another inty will die horribly unless it has some hp buffer. you wont do any damage to another inty until it is webbed. if you were to take on my pulse sader, you would be getting hit the entire time you are trying to close to web range while not hitting me. you may get a few hits while changing direction and forcing me to get back to optimal, but 80% or so of the time i'd be hitting you. All this is gona turn into is pointless theory crafting, I have a fair idea of what my crow can and can't do and obviously you haven't tried it so wouldn't know. edit > spelling
Foocurr	Posted - 2008.07.03 16:32:00 - [119] Originally by: Dheorl Edited by: Dheorl on 03/07/2008 16:21:54 Originally by: Foocurr Originally by: Dheorl ... at any rate, rocket crow is great for hitting larger ships, but against another inty will die horribly unless it has some hp buffer. you wont do any damage to another inty until it is webbed. if you were to take on my pulse sader, you would be getting hit the entire time you are trying to close to web range while not hitting me. you may get a few hits while changing direction and forcing me to get back to optimal, but 80% or so of the time i'd be hitting you. All this is gona turn into is pointless theory crafting, I have a fair idea of what my crow can and can't do and obviously you haven't tried it so wouldn't know. edit > spelling heh...i have tried rocket crow. as said before web range in an experienced inty fight is not easily attainable. why do you think i like pulse sader that can hit an unwebbed inty? trust me, if you were to get a web on me, you'd be in low shield or into armor then its a race to the pod.
Dheorl The Scope	Posted - 2008.07.03 16:36:00 - [120] Originally by: Foocurr heh...i have tried rocket crow. as said before web range in an experienced inty fight is not easily attainable. why do you think i like pulse sader that can hit an unwebbed inty? trust me, if you were to get a web on me, you'd be in low shield or into armor then its a race to the pod. I'd always found it pretty easy to web another inty, meh.
Leon 026 Caldari Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.07.03 16:44:00 - [121] Edited by: Leon 026 on 03/07/2008 16:47:23 The old Cold War-era rocket crow is still valid, but it doesn't really match the competition with current day dogfighting. The old rocket crow was quite survivable with the 200mm or 400mm plate setup, but these days, trying to nano a close-range rocket crow (by removing the plate) means its going to die really fast. But that also doesn't bridge the issue of attempting to fight close range at high speed... though I think if you're doing 7k and engaging targets that go at similar speeds it should do fine. In a pure 1v1 fight though, the rocket crow (if plated) has a higher likelyhood of winning the fight over a missile crow. I personally used to fly the rocket crow from late-2005 till mid-2006, but switched out to the missile crow because a rocket crow is unable to handle multiple targets at once. Its a nice classical ship though, and makes me miss the old days. The fact that flying an old-school rocket crow forces you to learn inty fighting the hard way, it holds a special place in my heart. I know Helpdesk loves his old-school rocket crow :D ------- Once I was fallen, now I have wings
Dheorl The Scope	Posted - 2008.07.03 16:49:00 - [122] Originally by: Leon 026 Edited by: Leon 026 on 03/07/2008 16:45:52 The old Cold War-era rocket crow is still valid, but it doesn't really match the competition with current day dogfighting. The old rocket crow was quite survivable with the 200mm or 400mm plate setup, but these days, trying to nano a close-range rocket crow (by removing the plate) means its going to die really fast. But that also doesn't bridge the issue of attempting to fight close range at high speed... though I think if you're doing 7k and engaging targets that go at similar speeds it should do fine. I personally used to fly the rocket crow from late-2005 till mid-2006, but switched out to the missile crow because a rocket crow is unable to handle multiple targets at once. Its a nice classical ship though, and still miss the old days. The fact that flying an old-school rocket crow forces you to learn inty fighting the hard way, it holds a special place in my heart. I know Helpdesk loves his old-school rocket crow :D Tbh thats the main reason I fly a rocket crow, yes missile ones are probably better in alot of situtations but theres nothing like taking out and old school classic. IMO PvP in EVE was at its best around that time (maybe just a tad later infact) and I do miss those days. You can handle multiple targets nearly as well as a missile crow (unless of course you have a faction scram on the missile crow, then it gets alot easier), you just have to be a bit more careful.

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