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MOCC3
Labteck Corporation LTD.
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Posted - 2008.06.30 19:58:00 -
[1]
Im sure ill get flamed for wanting to talk about this but....
Why is it that if you operate under NBSI your called a pirate?
And yes if your not blue there's a good chance i will try and kill you.
But if you are blue are any shade of blue-ish tint its all good. |
Haakelen
Gallente
Genesis Rising
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Posted - 2008.06.30 20:00:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Haakelen on 30/06/2008 20:00:02
Because there are people (idiots) who use 'pirate' as a synonym for 'griefer', and like to cry about getting killed, mostly. |
Jinx Barker
GFB Scientific
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Posted - 2008.06.30 20:21:00 -
[3]
I don't know - I wouldn't call someone a "pirate" because they operate under NBSI. This is a legitimate way to minimize disruptions to the operations of large group of people - a stranger, with no standings should be considered a threat to the common good and should be shot.
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Gealbhan
Caldari
Infernal Syndicate
Red Dawn Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.30 20:23:00 -
[4]
NBSI makes perfect sense!
A neutral in system is Not of your corp/alliance (obviously) therefore you can
A) see if they leave the system
B) wait until they attack one of yours
C) remove all doubt and blow them up for entering your turf
I'll take C for $1,000.
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Furb Killer
Gallente
USC Militia
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Posted - 2008.06.30 20:47:00 -
[5]
NBSI in 0.0 is not pirate imo, it is defending space. In low sec you shoot everyone, so you are just a pirate.
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MOCC3
Labteck Corporation LTD.
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Posted - 2008.06.30 20:53:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Furb Killer
NBSI in 0.0 is not pirate imo, it is defending space. In low sec you shoot everyone, so you are just a pirate.
Not tru cuz NBSI even works in low sec. But i can't be the only one who feels that every NPC corp player to me is hostile. I view them as scouts cyno alts and other not good things towards me and my people.
Now 100% yarr free.
Why are you called a pirate if u fly under NBSI?
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Furb Killer
Gallente
USC Militia
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Posted - 2008.06.30 20:54:00 -
[7]
So you shoot everyone you see except blues and you wonder why people think you are a pirate? 
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Tellenta
Gallente
Invicta.
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Posted - 2008.06.30 21:10:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Furb Killer
So you shoot everyone you see except blues and you wonder why people think you are a pirate?
Maybe they like to have a reasonably secure home? Anyone hanging around your home system can be 1 F1-F8 away from making your home unsafe. if you are new to a system its your responsibility to keep yourself safe, sometimes it might just take some idle chatter. It all depends on the locals, also give piracy a try it can be loads of fun.
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Jinx Barker
GFB Scientific
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Posted - 2008.06.30 21:22:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Jinx Barker on 30/06/2008 21:23:50
Originally by: Furb Killer
So you shoot everyone you see except blues and you wonder why people think you are a pirate?
Why Rolling emote? NBSI is legitimate and proper way to defend territory - its not piracy, it is prudence. If everyone and their pet goldfish would just come and go, then the spies and cyno alts will get in, and your space will be lost pretty quickly.
You obviously never been part of a group that held 0.0 for any extended period of time, since if you approach NBSI as piracy, and just allow a free flow of pod-Pilot rubbish though the system(s) you own - as I said above - you will loose and quickly.
On the other hand, if you ever was part of a group and are part of a group now that holds 0.0 for an extended period of time, then you are plain trolling and are hypocritical in your responses.
There is no way to hold 0.0 and ensure safety for the members of the group without NBSI policy in place. Not in EVE anyway. |
Faife
Minmatar
Kinda'Shujaa
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Posted - 2008.06.30 21:27:00 -
[10]
welcome to eve
- anyone who is at this moment involved in PVP is a pirate
- anyone who is at this moment not involved in PVP is a carebear
those words are pretty much meaningless other than the above |
Furb Killer
Gallente
USC Militia
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Posted - 2008.06.30 21:30:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Furb Killer on 30/06/2008 21:31:30
Edited by: Furb Killer on 30/06/2008 21:31:03
Originally by: Jinx Barker
Edited by: Jinx Barker on 30/06/2008 21:23:50
Originally by: Furb Killer
So you shoot everyone you see except blues and you wonder why people think you are a pirate?
Why Rolling emote? NBSI is legitimate and proper way to defend territory - its not piracy, it is prudence. If everyone and their pet goldfish would just come and go, then the spies and cyno alts will get in, and your space will be lost pretty quickly.
You obviously never been part of a group that held 0.0 for any extended period of time, since if you approach NBSI as piracy, and just allow a free flow of pod-Pilot rubbish though the system(s) you own - as I said above - you will loose and quickly.
On the other hand, if you ever was part of a group and are part of a group now that holds 0.0 for an extended period of time, then you are plain trolling and are hypocritical in your responses.
There is no way to hold 0.0 and ensure safety for the members of the group without NBSI policy in place. Not in EVE anyway.
FFS, train reading to lvl 2.
This was low sec, and let me quote myself:
Quote:
NBSI in 0.0 is not pirate imo, it is defending space.
Now was it really that hard to read?
What you quoted was about low sec... |
Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
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Posted - 2008.06.30 22:20:00 -
[12]
I'd consider anyone operating under NBSI and doing roaming gangs well out of their claimed space a pirate. |
Jinx Barker
GFB Scientific
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Posted - 2008.06.30 22:31:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Jinx Barker on 30/06/2008 22:31:42
Originally by: Furb Killer
What you quoted was about low sec...
N/M did not realize that you made two separate posts - I was under impression that the OP was talking about the 0.0 NBSI practice, and not Low Security - at least that is where it lead me to believe.
In any event:
NBIS in 0.0 = Prudence and Proper Approach to a situation of Neutrals.
"NBSI" in .1-.4 = Piracy if one is actively engages the targets w/o amy risk assessment/discrimination.
However, if you pop someone in .1-.4 because they seem to be getting too close to your ship, then it is prudence. |
Amastat
Caldari
Omegatech
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Posted - 2008.06.30 22:34:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Amastat on 30/06/2008 22:35:17
Being accused of being a pirate for conducting NBSI is only really valid in low-sec space. That is where most of the pirates are, all the gatecamp noobs, and mission runners are. Most pirating would take place here, and this space is not owned by any alliances - but only influenced at best.
In 0.0 space, you could consider it to be a place without pirates - only wars. Alliances can own territory, and will rightfully try to keep it secure, and NBSI is a valid excuse for blowing up people. It's their property, they have the right to blow up those tresspassing.
Low sec is not owned by anyone, so, this is where NBSI stops becoming an excuse for blowing someone up - and why this thread is here. Depends on how you look at it, but this is how the majority of EVE players treat low sec and 0.0 space. |
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.06.30 22:36:00 -
[15]
In lowsec it's piracy.
In 0.0 it's politics. |
Cors
It's A Trap
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Posted - 2008.06.30 23:59:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Cors on 01/07/2008 00:00:10
pi+rate Audio Help /ˈpaɪrət/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[pahy-ruht] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, verb, -rat+ed, -rat+ing.
ūnoun
1.a person who robs or commits illegal violence at sea or on the shores of the sea.
2.a ship used by such persons.
3.any plunderer, predator, etc.: confidence men, slumlords, and other pirates.
4.a person who uses or reproduces the work or invention of another without authorization.
5.Also called pirate stream. Geology. a stream that diverts into its own flow the headwaters of another stream, river, etc.
ūverb (used with object)
6.to commit piracy upon; plunder; rob.
7.to take by piracy: to pirate gold.
8.to use or reproduce (a book, an invention, etc.) without authorization or legal right: to pirate hit records.
9.to take or entice away for one's own use: Our competitor is trying to pirate our best salesman.
ūverb (used without object)
10.to commit or practice piracy.
notice the word ILLEGAL.. If your corp/alliance claims space in 0.0 then you are the duly listed "Owners" of that space, so NBSI is NOT piracy.
All the other uses of the word(Minus one or two) have to do with doing violence for plunder/gold/some form of money.
In EVE, we have people who do the above, but they do it for the PVP. Not for the loot. They are NOT pirates. A pirate kills you for money. Not a Killmail. |
Etho Demerzel
Gallente
Holy Clan of the Cone
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Posted - 2008.07.01 00:07:00 -
[17]
Really, it is not that hard. The game even helps you to figure this.
If you shoot people to your heart's content in 0.0 you are as good as a brand new char.
If you shoot people at your heart's content in low sec you have a blinking reddish tan that will cause you all sorts of inconveniences... |
Norwood Franskly
Minmatar
Fleet of the Damned
Dark Trinity Alliance
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Posted - 2008.07.01 01:42:00 -
[18]
NBSI in 0.0 is almost essential, to avoid noob corp spies, cyno alts and macro ratters. I don't equate it with piracy its more a matter of being prudent.
I think what was mentioned about operating NBSI and sending roaming gangs a long way away from your home, that to me is piracy. Sending roaming gangs into your enemies systems is one thing but going roaming just for ganks is piracy. |
FlameGlow
Caldari
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.07.01 04:34:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Cors
1.a person who robs or commits illegal violence at sea or on the shores of the sea.
.......
In EVE, we have people who do the above, but they do it for the PVP. Not for the loot. They are NOT pirates. A pirate kills you for money. Not a Killmail.
By that definition it's still piracy even if pirate doesn't rob, loot, ransom or gets whatever profit. In lowsec and highsec of course, blowing up anything in 0.0 isn't illegal. |
Joe Starbreaker
Starbreaker Frigateers
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Posted - 2008.07.01 05:40:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Jinx Barker
NBSI in 0.0 = Prudence and Proper Approach to a situation of Neutrals.
"NBSI" in .1-.4 = Piracy if one is actively engages the targets w/o amy risk assessment/discrimination.
Why the double standard?
Alliances and informal alliances definitely seek to own space in lowsec just as they do in 0.0. They aren't as serious about carebear stuff like mining and fueling POSes as the "big, tough" 0.0 alliances are, but they still claim territory and defend it. Why should they allow neutrals to roam freely in their space, when you never know who is going to pop a cyno or probe you down in a mission? |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.07.01 05:52:00 -
[21]
Originally by: MOCC3
Originally by: Furb Killer
NBSI in 0.0 is not pirate imo, it is defending space. In low sec you shoot everyone, so you are just a pirate.
Not tru cuz NBSI even works in low sec. But i can't be the only one who feels that every NPC corp player to me is hostile. I view them as scouts cyno alts and other not good things towards me and my people.
We aren't responsible of your paranoia.
In 0.0 NBSI is logic, in low sec it is piracy. |
Terminus adacai
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.07.01 05:52:00 -
[22]
NBSI is not a piracy theology in low sec. Low sec systems can be a pipe into sovereign space and is probably protected or at least watched.
And btw, if you are in low security, you should expect to be popped, whether it is by a pirate or an alliance/corp pilot.
I am not understanding the OP, who obviously has never been involved in 0.0 space or alliance politics.
Not a bad thing, but why post about what ya don't know? It all depends on the system and what has been going on. |
Tortun Nahme
Minmatar
Umbra Synergy
Final Retribution Alliance
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Posted - 2008.07.01 06:56:00 -
[23]
NBSI is lazy ethics, the very definition of piracy, it "might" be hostile so kill it any way
sure it's my preference, but hey who am I to argue, my alliance is NRDS and it's working for us fairly well |
Riho
Gallente
Mercenary Forces
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Posted - 2008.07.01 07:00:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Furb Killer
So you shoot everyone you see except blues and you wonder why people think you are a pirate?
if you come into my house uninvited... be sure you will be leaving in a ambulance...
same applies in eve tbh... if you come into my area without invite... im sure as hell going to give my best to blow you up |
Furb Killer
Gallente
USC Militia
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Posted - 2008.07.01 07:09:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Furb Killer on 01/07/2008 07:09:57
Go ahead, but it just means you are a pirate.
It is exactly the same as a pirate gatecamp, so why do you think you arent a pirate?
btw, you dont own that part of low sec, one of the 4 empires does.
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Vendrin
Caldari
APEX Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.07.01 07:12:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Jinx Barker
There is no way to hold 0.0 and ensure safety for the members of the group without NBSI policy in place. Not in EVE anyway.
Tell that to CVA. Last I heard, they still ran on NRDS.
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Xunlao Blackthorne
Nightmare Inc.
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Posted - 2008.07.01 07:17:00 -
[27]
NBSI works well, we like it... |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.07.01 09:30:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Riho
Originally by: Furb Killer
So you shoot everyone you see except blues and you wonder why people think you are a pirate?
if you come into my house uninvited... be sure you will be leaving in a ambulance...
same applies in eve tbh... if you come into my area without invite... im sure as hell going to give my best to blow you up
Sovereign 0.0 is your house, low sec is the public park across the street.
In the US you can shot a person strolling in your garden and suffer no consequences, but firing on someone strolling in the publick park has consequences.
NBSI in 0.0 is logic (even if a bit lazy), NBSI in low sec is piracy/murder. You can apply it but not call it the obvious choice. |
Amastat
Caldari
Omegatech
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Posted - 2008.07.01 09:48:00 -
[29]
How about this. If you open fire on someone, and sentry guns/concord begins to fire at you - your comitting piracy.
If you object, and still think it's not piracy - CCP is this way ->> ***** to them about it - they are the one who set what's legal or not.
If otherwise - no, it's not piracy. It's as simple as that.
The only other potential exception is what is commonly refered to as high-sec piracy. Technically, it is not - because it's all legal - however down to the core, and the whole reasons for the war, is why these corps are widely accepted and referred to as "high-sec pirates". But, as far as the mechanics of the game go, by CCP's fabricated law, they are actually not.
____________________
"All warfare is based on deception... we must seem unable...seem inactive...and crush him " - Sun Tzu |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.07.01 10:20:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Amastat
The only other potential exception is what is commonly refered to as high-sec piracy. Technically, it is not - because it's all legal - however down to the core, and the whole reasons for the war, is why these corps are widely accepted and referred to as "high-sec pirates". But, as far as the mechanics of the game go, by CCP's fabricated law, they are actually not.
Hi sec pirates (those using war dec not those using suicide ganking) are better defined as High sec corsairs. The get "letters de marque" from Concord allowing them to attack a specific corporation ships. Effectively it is probably the best definition of most high sec wars. |
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