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Let's face it. CCP should end suicide ganking.

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breaky1 e X i l e	Posted - 2008.07.07 14:04:00 - [151] can someone explain something i've always wondered? why should haulers be able to make isk afk when almost every other profession requires actually PLAYING the game? if CCP ends suicide ganking, then they should introduce automatic pve combat so mission-runners can earn isk afk, and automatic mining so miners dont have to be there to mine. at some point all you whiners who have been suicide ganked will wake up and realize its almost impossible to be victimized if youre at your computer playing the game. nothing in life is free, mmkay?
Jaabaa Minmatar Dental Drilling Corporation	Posted - 2008.07.07 14:16:00 - [152] How about adding a little twist to the "no insurance" solution. If you destroy a ship and then get CONCORDOKKENed, your insurance payout get redirected by CONCORD to the victim's wallet. -- EVE Mobile Skill Planner V3 !! http://evemsp.sourceforge.net/
Nito Musashi	Posted - 2008.07.07 14:19:00 - [153] Originally by: Mister Xerox Suicide ganks should not be removed. Insurance payouts for CONCORD kills should be. Logical balance to the entire system. ftw. as for above risk vs reward used to be the mantra for ccp, ya the haulers that AP 15 20 systems to jita are idiots, but where is the uber risk on the gankers? they know they are going to get blown up, they know to have max insurance on their tubs, they know not to use uber stuff on their ships, they know there little frigate alt can sit there at gate all day scanning people down and other than the time invested and the paltry sector hit. nevermind when we talking faction/officer ganks where they can make billions off a few dropped mods. and most people work their arses off for their toys what work did the gankers put in? 200 mil worth of ship, a few hours sitting around a major mission/trade hub looking for targets. risk vs reward.
Xaen Caldari Caritas.	Posted - 2008.07.07 14:22:00 - [154] Don't make a juicy, easy target and you won't be ganked. It's as simple as that. PvPers spend months training skills and millions fitting ships to do what they want to do. What makes you think you should be able to safely haul a billion ISK in a t1 unfitted badger worth 200K and 20 minutes of skill training behind it? You're just asking for it. Use a transport ship. Use a battleship. Use a battlecruiser. If it's small, use a freaking frigate. I've suicide ganked and been the target of an attempted suicide gank. Best of all I was afk autopiloting. But I lost nothing but some shield HP. You know why? I took the time to slap a medium shield extender and some passive hardeners on first. It cost them a manticore and a ferox and they got nothing in return. The only reason I even know there was an attempt is that I was in the bathroom back by my computer when I got jumped. - Support fixing the UI\|Suggest Jita fixes\|Compact logs
Uber Dood	Posted - 2008.07.07 14:43:00 - [155] Just canceled my 4 accounts because sick of the lack of attention to this matter for years by ccp. How long does it take to put in a check that if player x killed payer y in high sec that player x doesn't get insurance payout?
Plumpy McPudding	Posted - 2008.07.07 14:44:00 - [156] Originally by: Uber Dood Just canceled my 4 accounts because sick of the lack of attention to this matter for years by ccp. How long does it take to put in a check that if player x killed payer y in high sec that player x doesn't get insurance payout? I just canceled my 18 accounts even though I haul T2 goods continuously and have never been suicide ganked! Take that CCP! __________________________ Fear me for I have an insatiable appetite! Proprietor and inventor of Chocolate Chip Chocolate Donut flavored Ice Cream.
Tippia Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.07.07 14:47:00 - [157] Originally by: Uber Dood Just canceled my 4 accounts because sick of the lack of attention to this matter for years by ccp. How long does it take to put in a check that if player x killed payer y in high sec that player x doesn't get insurance payout? Roughly 10 minutes. The question you need to ask yourself is: how long does it take to determine whether it actually needs to be done or not?
brinelan Caldari Victory Not Vengeance Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.07.07 14:58:00 - [158] EVe has ways to avoid getting ganked already in the game. Why do we need to make changes? It shounds as if PLAYERS need to make the needed changes to prevent ganks, not CCP. sorry, previous games have been WOW'ified in the past, and it killed all of them. Don't make this World of New Eden... I like the kill rights suggestion (since it adds a new profession to the game.. giving people new ways to pvp), but other then that just take precautions.. use the right tool for the job. A T2 deep space transport, blockage runner, and Modules in your empty slots, not maxed out with cargo expanders and insta undock bookmarks. It is like the jihadswarm thing, pay attention, dont be stupid and youll be fine. -------------------------- Some days you're the bug, some days you're the windshield
AltBier Minmatar Freelance Unincorporated	Posted - 2008.07.07 15:12:00 - [159] For some reason I read the thread title as: "Let's face it. CCP should use suicide ganking." which would have been an interesting suggestion.
Nito Musashi	Posted - 2008.07.07 15:12:00 - [160] maybe cause it is so common sense and could not take more than an hour to code as opposed to. hi we are concord we just blew your ship to hell because you were committing a criminal act in high security space now here is your insurance payout.
BritishInvader Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.07.07 15:22:00 - [161] Edited by: BritishInvader on 07/07/2008 15:24:27 Edited by: BritishInvader on 07/07/2008 15:23:30 Edited by: BritishInvader on 07/07/2008 15:22:38 I can suicide gank Hulks easily in a Rupture. I lose 3m isk after insurance. Without insurance, I lose 7m isk. I don't think I'd even notice that extra 4m, insurance being there or not won't make anyone stop suicide ganking. I already get huge sec penalties for doing it, but threads like these and lovely salty pubbie tears are priceless, and as long as they cry, I'll spend hours grinding sec and making ISK to get a taste of those wonderful tears. EDIT: Speaking of which, this thread is pretty much the desired result of every suicide gank ever. -----+----- Mail : BritishInvader for signature orders.
Wendat Huron Stellar Solutions	Posted - 2008.07.07 15:31:00 - [162] Originally by: BritishInvader Edited by: BritishInvader on 07/07/2008 15:24:27 Edited by: BritishInvader on 07/07/2008 15:23:30 Edited by: BritishInvader on 07/07/2008 15:22:38 I can suicide gank Hulks easily in a Rupture. I lose 3m isk after insurance. Without insurance, I lose 7m isk. I don't think I'd even notice that extra 4m, insurance being there or not won't make anyone stop suicide ganking. I already get huge sec penalties for doing it, but threads like these and lovely salty pubbie tears are priceless, and as long as they cry, I'll spend hours grinding sec and making ISK to get a taste of those wonderful tears. EDIT: Speaking of which, this thread is pretty much the desired result of every suicide gank ever. Just be sure to clean your hands afterwards before touching the keyboard. It doesn't matter though if you only lose 4M, every little isk sink helps and it makes absolutely no sense to pay out money for damages sustained during a documented criminal act. These forums are FUBAR, upgrade this decade!
Balen Organa Caldari	Posted - 2008.07.07 15:33:00 - [163] Easy solution here. If you get blown up by concord you dont get insurance on your ship. Anyone looting your wreck in high sec loses a large amount of sec and is open season for ANY player. That should curtail a suicide gank. Even better why not make it available for players to purchase concord security ships. To guard them in high sec. Or make an LFM/LFG channel were players can offer their protection services to other players. As it is now its very difficult to find good help.
Bleeshtar	Posted - 2008.07.07 15:59:00 - [164] It has always struck me as strange that you can continue to purchase insurance at the same rate regardless of how many ships you have lost recently regardless of how the ship was lost. You would think that after two or three 'suicides' the insurer would begin to consider you a bad risk. Game mechanic wise though 'it' does not know wether you were the sucider or suicidee. But you would think something along the lines "Thats the third ship youve lost in the last 24 hours. Your a bad risk. Your insurance rates just went up."
Xzar Fyrarr Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2008.07.07 16:08:00 - [165] Another One LEaves EvE I would say can I can has your stuffs.... but I doubt you already has anything.
sakana North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.07.07 16:09:00 - [166] Yea I agree with the OP it totally sucks how CCP MAKES you autopilot all your stuff around empire in flimsy ships.....
Jarvis Hellstrom Gallente The Flying Tigers Bionic Dawn	Posted - 2008.07.07 16:17:00 - [167] Originally by: Aria Seniste Originally by: Deyalarah Modules. Rigs. Drones. Of course, if you think you can fight in an unfitted battleship, be my guest. No need. The value of the cargo easily covers those on a suicide and if you do any 0.0 ratting you'll pick up enough battleship mods to fit your ship effectively for free. In fact you get paid to go and get them. I don't think that anyone is suggesting getting rid of insurance, just insurance for Concord kills. May God stand between you and harm in all the Empty places you must walk (Old Egyptian Blessing)
Malcanis We are Legend	Posted - 2008.07.07 16:32:00 - [168] Originally by: Uber Dood Just canceled my 4 accounts because sick of the lack of attention to this matter for years by ccp. How long does it take to put in a check that if player x killed payer y in high sec that player x doesn't get insurance payout? How long does it take you to read the player guide that explains that this is not a bug, error, ommision or mistake? " Kamikaze attacks Despite the lack of absolute safety, empire space is still relatively safe. The biggest threat to the average player in Empire space is the risk of ôkamikazeö attacks when carrying a cargo of noteworthy value. Just like on modern day earth, the risk of attack rises with the amount of money sticking out of your pockets. If attacking you becomes a lucrative enough option, the best of neighbourhoods may become unsafe for you to walk around in. Some players are willing to lose ships and their good standing with Concord for the hope of quick profit from a juicy loot drop. The ôkamikazeö attackers usually work in pairs or groups. They scan the cargo holds of bypassing pilots flying easily destructable ships until they see something worthy of a ship loss. They then blow up the ship and and while Concord do what they do best, a second character picks up the loot from the shipÆs wreck. This is not seen as an exploit of the intended game mechanics and there is no compensation or reimbursement to be had for losses caused by attacks in secure space." Pity you didn't have 5 accounts though. Canceling 5 might get them to listen - 4 just isn't enough. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Rakshasa Taisab Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Ursa Stellar Initiative	Posted - 2008.07.07 16:32:00 - [169] I love suicide ganking, because it never happens to me. ^_^
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.07.07 16:36:00 - [170] The next time some ***head parrots out the "no insurance for concord kills, snort* - its obvious innit" I shall scream until i am sick SKUNK
Jarvis Hellstrom Gallente The Flying Tigers Bionic Dawn	Posted - 2008.07.07 16:37:00 - [171] Originally by: Aria Seniste Any gank in highsec comes due to carelessness; why would the insurance company give a payout to a careless pilot? I also used to believe this until I had the scales removed from my eyes by a corpmate who watched a Goon GankOp in 1.0. NO ship got through there. Not the ones warping to zero, not the cloakers, nothing. All the ships were piloted by good pilots with fast lock skills and fast lock modules. Everything was instalocked and blown apart. Even sizeable freighters with real tank. Granted, this was a big op and there were a lot of Goons and it was very well organized. But the point is - if the gankers are well set up, no amount of being careful will save you unless somehow you find out before going anywhere near the op. The particular op in question walked off with multiple billions in profit. AFTER all ship costs were calculated in etc. Which is one reason that cutting the insurance out isn't really enough. This is blatant piracy in high space being done (literally) right under Concord's nose as there were dozens of DED ships there. Insurance removal is a good start but it won't solve things like the above. The reason that people feel that this is an exploit is that piracy is supposed to be an illegal activity. Were the DED ships piloted by real people, they wouldn't just fire on some of the ships as they attacked, they'd hit them all or at least drive the fleet off. As to the thieves - the big reason gank ops like this work is that the thieves (hauler pilots) are pretty much immune to retribution. That fifteen minute aggress timer is a joke when the pilot got blasted and now is sitting in a pod. What's he gonna do? Ram them with his pod? By the time he's gone to get a new ship the bad guy is long gone. Addressing the thief issue is the big thing that will limit suicide ganking. Note that I don't have a problem with the concept of high sec piracy. Personally I feel that folks should be allowed to try and fight or run from Concord. The NPCs manage it after all. That would keep high sec a bit hazardous. But the current 'suicide gank' is gamey and taking into account that DED as it is currently presented is entirely dead from the neck up. May God stand between you and harm in all the Empty places you must walk (Old Egyptian Blessing)
Malcanis We are Legend	Posted - 2008.07.07 16:38:00 - [172] Originally by: Bleeshtar It has always struck me as strange that you can continue to purchase insurance at the same rate regardless of how many ships you have lost recently regardless of how the ship was lost. You would think that after two or three 'suicides' the insurer would begin to consider you a bad risk. Game mechanic wise though 'it' does not know wether you were the sucider or suicidee. But you would think something along the lines "Thats the third ship youve lost in the last 24 hours. Your a bad risk. Your insurance rates just went up." For the millionth time: EvE "insurance" is nothing to do with RL insurance. It's a ship replacement mechanic. Until you understand and accept that in this, as in many other ways, EvE is not real life, the game will cause you unnecessary frustration and difficulty. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Balen Organa Caldari	Posted - 2008.07.07 16:59:00 - [173] Originally by: Le Skunk The next time some ***head parrots out the "no insurance for concord kills, snort* - its obvious innit" I shall scream until i am sick SKUNK No insurance for concord kills. (waits for the scream ) Illegal acts in any game should be dire consequences in a high sec area as to discourage this very act. Continuing to allow such acts only minimizes the hauling industry so that eventually it shuts down. What if people were allowed to blow up Fedex frieght trucks or UPS planes, take all the stuff from the plane and then sell it on market for profit. Not only that they get paid when the police come and throw them in jail. This is a nutsy mechanic to even allow. Suicide ganking should not be profitable, should not be encouraged by CCP, and no game maker should sit there and say "Well dont haul..." Its like a developer saying "Well dont die.." If anyone takes a step back and realizes the true nature of this act, it just becomes more ridiculous. There are other ways to make ISK that dont involve completely shutting down a portion of the game AKA Hauling. If hauling in a badger I or badger II is impossible, then why even have the ships? If Hauling a billion dollars worth of stuff is nto encouraged, why even have Hauling in the first place? Risk Vs Reward. Hauling is high risk low reward. Suicide ganking is low risk high reward. Thats a problem. There are some good ideas to turn this around before its too late and all eve is filled with gankers, PVP kiddies, and hardcore power gamers. IF enough suiciders come down pretty soon the hauling industry collapses, what then? You should be just about 99% free to do anything in 1.0 space, including hauling. Lower secs, fine you take your chances. Carebears pay the same fees as the gankers, and they expect to get as much out of the game as the murderers do. Working for months to build up a shipment, time investment, plus ISK plus skill training only to be ganked by someone who put in a few days worth of effort and very few ISK, will ruin the game. If CCP doesnt realize this then they have lost sight of the issue. Ideas that sound good - - Implement ability to contact out kill rights - No insurance for concord kills - Ability to insure cargo - Implement something so that Haulers have easier access to protection services. IE LFG channels, pay concord for security, etc.. The only ones retorting for no change is, no shock here, the suicide gankers. Not bashing CCP, they do a great job and its a great game. But if this is really a problem, it should be fixed. I see a huge balance issue here.
Arvald Caldari Aurora Acclivitous Paxton Federation	Posted - 2008.07.07 17:01:00 - [174] step 1) grow brain step 2) use brain there ya go, you will never get suicide ganked again Originally by: Xanos Blackpaw Stealthbomber combat (or as i like to call it: Just because you *are* paranoid don't mean there isnt a invisible demon about to eat your face)
Jarvis Hellstrom Gallente The Flying Tigers Bionic Dawn	Posted - 2008.07.07 17:03:00 - [175] Originally by: Mahogany Finish What are you doing flying a freighter without an escort? What good is an escort? The only possible use is to buff the hauler long enough that all the suiciders are dead - which might work if they're not serious. An escort in high sec cannot fire on the attackers (even if in gang or the same corp) without themselves being destroyed by Concord. I'm not sure if they can fire on the thieves or not (I don't think so) but if they could the suiciders would just blow that ship too if the op is at all well planned. May God stand between you and harm in all the Empty places you must walk (Old Egyptian Blessing)
Ki An Gallente Filiolus Of Bellum	Posted - 2008.07.07 17:08:00 - [176] I'ma gonna start crying soon. The stupidity and failure to see simple reason in this thread is astounding. I even see some pretty well known forumers in here branding about the old "No insurance for criminals" bullcrap. Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
Bleeshtar	Posted - 2008.07.07 17:11:00 - [177] Originally by: Malcanis For the millionth time: EvE "insurance" is nothing to do with RL insurance. It's a ship replacement mechanic. Until you understand and accept that in this, as in many other ways, EvE is not real life, the game will cause you unnecessary frustration and difficulty. Well thanks for setting me straight Of curse its just a game. If a real life insurance agencey operated as they do in EvE they would be bankrupt in little time. What I was saying is why dont insurance reflect the 'risk factor'? What prevents it? Why should someone whom loses 4 ships in 24 hours pay at the same rate as some one who hasent lost a ship in 24 days? Just seems logical to me. But hey its just a game.
Ki An Gallente Filiolus Of Bellum	Posted - 2008.07.07 17:14:00 - [178] Originally by: Bleeshtar Well thanks for setting me straight Of curse its just a game. If a real life insurance agencey operated as they do in EvE they would be bankrupt in little time. What I was saying is why dont insurance reflect the 'risk factor'? What prevents it? Why should someone whom loses 4 ships in 24 hours pay at the same rate as some one who hasent lost a ship in 24 days? Just seems logical to me. But hey its just a game. Why should someone who willingly takes his ship into a warzone (low- nul sec) get insurance? It doesn't make sense. Why should someone who doesn't see fit to protect himself and his cargo get insurance? It doesn't make sense. Why should someone who self-destructs his own ship get insurance? It doesn't make sense. Why should someone who flies around in an empire war get insurance? It doesn't make sense. Why should someone who flies a ship into a pirate hot-zone (any mission) get insurance? It doesn't make sense. Why should someone who mines where pirates are known to lurk about (asteroid belts) get insurance? It doesn't make sense. Why should anyone get insurance? It doesn't make sense. Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
BIG BOS5	Posted - 2008.07.07 17:15:00 - [179] Wahh I went autopilot or afk and lost all my stuffs
Bleeshtar	Posted - 2008.07.07 17:18:00 - [180] Originally by: Ki An Originally by: Bleeshtar Well thanks for setting me straight Of curse its just a game. If a real life insurance agencey operated as they do in EvE they would be bankrupt in little time. What I was saying is why dont insurance reflect the 'risk factor'? What prevents it? Why should someone whom loses 4 ships in 24 hours pay at the same rate as some one who hasent lost a ship in 24 days? Just seems logical to me. But hey its just a game. Why should someone who willingly takes his ship into a warzone (low- nul sec) get insurance? It doesn't make sense. Why should someone who doesn't see fit to protect himself and his cargo get insurance? It doesn't make sense. Why should someone who self-destructs his own ship get insurance? It doesn't make sense. Why should someone who flies around in an empire war get insurance? It doesn't make sense. Why should someone who flies a ship into a pirate hot-zone (any mission) get insurance? It doesn't make sense. Why should someone who mines where pirates are known to lurk about (asteroid belts) get insurance? It doesn't make sense. Why should anyone get insurance? It doesn't make sense. Anyone taking the 'risks' you mention will most likely start losing ships, therefore driving up their rates. Therefore 'encouraging' them to act a little more responsably. Give them a bad enough 'record' and they might be lucky to get insurance at all.

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