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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
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CCP Wrangler
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Posted - 2008.07.10 14:13:00 -
[1]
A spaceship type that is somewhere between an industrial and a freighter is currently in development. Abilities may include the use of cans and capital tractor beams, but design features are subject to change.
Wrangler Community Manager CCP Hf, EVE Online Email
"It's not worth doing something unless you are doing something that someone, somewhere, would much rather you weren't doing." |
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles Zzz
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Posted - 2008.07.10 16:20:00 -
[2]
The important thing is that it has at least one well-defined role and has the necessary capacity for that role, and that it doesn't displace anything else from its own unique role. At the moment, it sounds as though it's aimed squarely at mining ops, for people who want to move lots of ore at once without having to deploy a rorqual for 10 minutes. Zzz research towers Direrie NEW: Liekuri
20:1 low-end compression |
Princess Jodi
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.07.10 16:28:00 -
[3]
I used to be in favor of a 'mini-freighter', but not anymore. Just fix the Suicide Ganking problem, so that people in Empire can safely fill up their Freighters again, and the need for another ship goes away. Put a single slot or a built-in Tractor/Salvager and you've completely eliminated the need for another ship type.
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Misanth
The Forsakened Companions Pure.
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Posted - 2008.07.10 16:32:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Misanth on 10/07/2008 16:33:20
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro The important thing is that it has at least one well-defined role and has the necessary capacity for that role, and that it doesn't displace anything else from its own unique role. At the moment, it sounds as though it's aimed squarely at mining ops, for people who want to move lots of ore at once without having to deploy a rorqual for 10 minutes.
Agree. My freighter alt didn't need to spend much time (rather isk, which is a smaller factor for an industrial/trade character) to get access to the freigther from industrial 5.
If there's going to be a ship inbetween it's quite important its role is well-defined, just like Kazuo mentioned. The Rorqual has a unique role, mining-related. A mini-freighter with a capital tractor beam would lean towards that department. I'd be more interested in either seeing different versions of this mini-freighter, for different purposes.. or something that is more related to pure transporting. A 'bigger brother' of the blockade runners, perhaps, that can mount a small tank and/or have the possibility to self-repair (until help arrives or it reaches the gate). Or give it a separate cargo space (like the carrier have cargo space, corp hangar, and ship hangar) that purely can be used to store fuel. In that example; say it has a base capacity that is equal to a rigged iteron mark 5, but it has the potential to carry a few hundred k m3 worth of fuel. Isotopes, liquid ozone, and only that.
..something along those lines. Give it a role.
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Caiman Graystock
Quantum of Solace
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Posted - 2008.07.10 16:46:00 -
[5]
I'd like to see it be skill intensive, needing freighter 5 amongst others, but be useful for corps mining in high sec. Making it skill intensive means there will still be plenty of people jetcan mining for those who enjoy that particular grief, but there would be an alternative for those who are more organised. Is this the same ship some have discussed as a mini-rorqual? Would be nice to have a mobile base of operations for miners, can mount capital tractors or something between capital/small, with a relatively large cargo hold, but less than half a freighter at least.
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Transmaniacon
Strike-Force-Alpha
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Posted - 2008.07.10 16:49:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Transmaniacon on 10/07/2008 16:51:09 I think CCP is referring to the Orca. In one of their previous posts, they described this as something between a freighter and industrial, and its been stated this will be similar in function to the rorqual, meaning it will aid in mining ops, and provide a large cargo-hold.
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WHeisenberg
Caldari Caldari Deep Space Ventures Caldari Deep Space Industral
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Posted - 2008.07.10 16:55:00 -
[7]
This suggestion could go down in flames, but it appears there is an opening here for something that has been discussed and that I personally think would be useful.
In the universe of EvE there are those who can afford, both in isk and skill-training time, to fly capital ships - and those who cannot.
A ship capable of bridging these two opposites is potentially a new hauler.
As it sits, the only realistic ways to get cargo past an enemy force, or a gate camp, are to go around, wait until later, prepare a larger opposing force or 'hope'. For corps with few players, trying to get established in 0.0 is a chore in itself. CCP states that they would love more players in 0.0, yet the more there are, the harder it is for smaller corps to 'get in' - and 'get out'.
It doesn't matter if you have a 20 player corp, all determined to head to 0.0 to make their fortunes, if there's just going to be a 30 ship gate camp to contend with every time you want to move products into more lucrative selling systems. The larger alliances have a monopoly on lowsec space, since they can 'afford' to camp every route that is popular.
Yes, there are jump freighters and other capital ships that can greatly assist in avoiding these situations - but for the small corporation, just getting started, another option could be made available.
A new ship that bridges the gap not only could be a hauler, but SHOULD be a hauler. There is such a wide variety of warships available, and so few haulers. In reality, we have the standard T1 haulers, the T2 (cough) gate camp busters, freighters and jump-freighters. T1/T2 haulers dont stand a chance at a gate camp. Freighters might fare better, but that is because they either A) jump past the camp, or B) manage to absorb enough damage to get away. Freighters have a cost associated with them that is beyond the abilities of newer players, both in isk and skill training time.
I propose a new hauler that has a mixture of both. A midsize ship with the ability to carry as much as a T1 hauler, maybe a bit more, but with the ability to cyno. A lower cost, combined with lower skill requirements, could make this ship a suitable in-between step between standard haulers and capitals.
It would have the same capabilities of being destroyed at a gate camp as a T1/T2 hauler, but would have the added ability to avoid them by cyno jumping.
Basically, a cyno hauler that isn't a capital ship. A 'bustard with a cyno', so to speak.
No fancy 'warp bubble proofing' or 'immune to electronic warfare'. Just a small hauler with a jumpdrive.
The black ops ships are a midway bridge between T1/T2 battleships and Capital ships. If you can't afford the isk for a cap ship, or the skills, a black ops ship is a suitable step up. The transport pilots deserve a similar option.
I like the fact that the hauler class pilots in EvE are getting some much needed attention here. I just hope that a true 'step up' type of industrial ship is created. Many of us had high hopes for the potential of the last industrial 'step up for the poor'. I, for one, couldn't wait to get into a Bustard and 'finally have more of a chance to move past those 10 ship gate camps'. The Bustard appeared, and the gate campers adjusted accordingly, by becoming 20-30-40 ship camps. Bubbles didn't help either.
I'm not suggesting that a new hauler be created that has the ability to 'skip past all danger', because if adding a jump drive to a hauler allows that, then the new jump freighters must fit that description as well (which they dont).
I'm sure there are pilots who would be willing to pay well for such a ship. Hauling, no matter how boring many pilots think it is, can be as much fun and profitable as any other profession. Transportation of goods is half of EvE, yet imho, it gets less than 1 percent of the attention it deserves.
Plus, the billions it costs for jump freighter right now is far out of reach for most.
My two cents.
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Transmaniacon
Strike-Force-Alpha
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Posted - 2008.07.10 17:35:00 -
[8]
As it is now, rorquals and carriers are cheaper than jump freighters, and are capable of fulfilling the same role. Having transport ships that could cyno would likely render the jump freighter useless. Sure, they would not haul as much, but for the price difference, you could have a few of these going all the time, and being much smaller and having the ability to cloak would make them quite survivable. Meaning an alliance could keep these ships running all the time, and always transporting, with little to no protection required. As much as I would love it, I do not think it will happen. Not to mention a ship with a jump drive is considered a capital ship, and therefore can not enter empire space. I think if there would to be any bonus to transporting, it would be through ore compression with the proposed Orca. Allowing ore compression in high sec would mean blockrade runners could carry more, and be more effective in terms of quantity carried.
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WHeisenberg
Caldari Caldari Deep Space Ventures Caldari Deep Space Industral
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Posted - 2008.07.10 17:42:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Transmaniacon Allowing ore compression in high sec would mean blockrade runners could carry more, and be more effective in terms of quantity carried.
This is, of course, assuming that ore is what is being transported. Self-sufficient corps have the capability of building anything in 0.0
Also, you mentioned major alliances running the small jump-transports (to give them a name) in quantity instead of the freighters. Please do! That gives more targets to shoot at in the long run.
There's really no big difference, and no imbalance that I can see. Either have 1 big expensive ship carrying a lot of stuff, or multiple less expensive ships carrying less stuff. In reality, it would be cost-similar. Pay 6 billion to haul 250k of stuff in 1 ship, or pay 600 million to haul 25k worth of stuff in a smaller ship. In the end, it's still 6 billion worth of isk in balance.
This is just a way for the pilots/corps who dont happen to have 6 billion isk laying around that they can throw at a single ship to have the opportunity to partake in 0.0 a little easier.
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Exlegion
New Light Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2008.07.10 17:46:00 -
[10]
Oh man! Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet?
One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Gang Starr |
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Mud Mover
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Posted - 2008.07.10 18:08:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Mud Mover on 10/07/2008 18:08:45 I would love to see a hauler/mini freighter with about 100-200k m3 hold.
Personally my mk5 fully expanded serves me pretty well, but there are times where i would like to move my productr from the building system to the selling system and then the mk5 is not enough and buying a freighter with 900k m3 is just not effective for me so i have to wait on some of my friends to log on and get them to haul for me.
The jump from haulers to freighters is to great as it is we need a ship in between that can serve us small scale builders
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Ford Hakata
Hakata Group Blade.
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Posted - 2008.07.10 22:06:00 -
[12]
A sub-freighter sized hauler would be nice, especially if it's a "stealth hauler" - a hauler that can make use of the Black Op's covert jump bridge. (This would also allow covert gangs to go on extended missions with enough fuel, while being able to bring back the loot from those missions.)
Note, I'm suggesting a different ship than a "mini-me" Rorqual for high-sec mining ops. --
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isAzmodeus
Low Security Military Excursions
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Posted - 2008.07.10 22:14:00 -
[13]
I support the idea of a middle range hauler. This shouldn't be a ship with a high sp requirement. Instead, this should be aimed at a different market: players and small corps that need to haul 100-200k m3 of an item, but without the investment in a 1bil hauling ship.
100-200k cargohold, a few high/mid slots, 0-1 low slots, and a build cost of 300-400m would be great. It could be modestly tanked, use tractors for corp mining ops, and be accessible to more players. --------------------------------- The Seven- Blowing up someone near you. |
ian666
Rave Technologies Inc. C0VEN
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Posted - 2008.07.10 22:40:00 -
[14]
Edited by: ian666 on 10/07/2008 22:40:25 medium sized freighter isnt an issue, better do something with freighter gankers and problem solved. Besides we already have Freighters with smaller cargo bay called Jump Freighters.
But yes there should be a ship with bonus to tractor beam (and salvager), but not a freighter, more likely a crusier/battlecrusier sized ship
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Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2008.07.11 01:12:00 -
[15]
It would be nice to have something between the few million ISK Itty V and the billion ISK freighter.
I want to haul more than an Itty V can gold, but not that much more. -
DesuSigs |
Mecinia Lua
Galactic Express Burning Horizons
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Posted - 2008.07.11 05:38:00 -
[16]
This is good :)
Thoughts expressed are mine and mine alone. They do not necessarily reflect my alliances thoughts. |
Argonicus
Wastion Dominion Death or Glory
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Posted - 2008.07.11 06:39:00 -
[17]
also important thing is moon mining in empire, because few towers produce near 100k m3, so i need freighter to catty out. But it dangerous. And Jumpfreighter is more safety, but cost too much. So middle size industrial what cost 300-400 mil, can carry 200-300k m3, and have agility better then freighter is real cool. But This ship must have enough HP for safe from one-2 BSH, not like industrial...
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UncleanSanchez
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.07.11 07:03:00 -
[18]
Originally by: isAzmodeus I support the idea of a middle range hauler. This shouldn't be a ship with a high sp requirement. Instead, this should be aimed at a different market: players and small corps that need to haul 100-200k m3 of an item, but without the investment in a 1bil hauling ship.
100-200k cargohold, a few high/mid slots, 0-1 low slots, and a build cost of 300-400m would be great. It could be modestly tanked, use tractors for corp mining ops, and be accessible to more players.
THIS. 2-4 cans of capacity, and the ability to fit modules. Nothing fancy. Just an Iteron or Badger with a bigger hold. Call the class "Hauler"
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Arbatis
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Posted - 2008.07.11 07:17:00 -
[19]
It looks to me like there are 2 ships that people want, a mini-rorq that can't compress and just hauler between the huge and hugely expensive fighters and a regular indy, maybe another type of t2 indy that instead of the "blockade runner" aspect, just has a bigger hold?
Personally i would like to see both, a larger indy would be good for fueling/ setting up posses and such and a mini-rorq that can use ether the capital tractor or has a bonus to the regular tractor would be very useful for hauling to a rorq at a pos.
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Yon Krum
Sigillum Militum Xpisti
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Posted - 2008.07.11 10:36:00 -
[20]
Originally by: UncleanSanchez THIS. 2-4 cans of capacity, and the ability to fit modules. Nothing fancy. Just an Iteron or Badger with a bigger hold. Call the class "Hauler"
THIRDED.
Really, not everyone who would haul has 2 billion (1 for ship, 1 for cargo) laying around to invest in a single entity. There's an awefully long way between an industrial and a freighter....
--Krum
--Krum |
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Zaphroid Eulthran
Imperial Visions
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Posted - 2008.07.11 11:29:00 -
[21]
For me this ship is not a responce to freighter ganking or any other downfall of freighters other than the skill and ISK cost of them.
The one overriding factor of my support for this ship is the need for it to be easially accessable to small corps who otherwise wouldnt be able to devote the resources needed to get a capital class hauler.
Therfore nothing fancy, no Jump Drives, no Ewar poncyness and certainly NOT T2, just a big ass T1 hauler to move stuff between stations and possably POSes.
I'm not too sure about allowing it to scoop cans though, if you do allow it to, who in their right mind is ever going to fly the "old-style" haulers anymore?
I would prefer this to be a huge industrial ship rather than a smaller freighter, if only to avoid the freighter skill, the equivilant of battleship size and probably just a bit over battleship cost as well seems about right.
120,000m3 is the size of the largest courier contract you can make so I see a target for this ship, I also like the symetry of a 200Mil ISK pricetag.
As for whether you go for 4 racials or a single flavour "mining barge style" doesnt matter too much.
Anyway bring it on so I can retire my aging Mastodon.
. Hi-Sec Industry NEEDS Mini Freighters <- not T2 bazillion ISK alliance toys |
Caiman Graystock
Quantum of Solace
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Posted - 2008.07.11 12:14:00 -
[22]
Quote: I'm not too sure about allowing it to scoop cans though, if you do allow it to, who in their right mind is ever going to fly the "old-style" haulers anymore?
The easiet way to counter that is to make it skill intensive. Who in there right mind flies a Badger 1, etc? People who don't have the skills to fly anything better... there are always plenty of low skill point players who will be a market for existing ships.
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Raven Timoshenko
Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold
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Posted - 2008.07.11 12:34:00 -
[23]
/sign
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Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2008.07.11 12:35:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Zaphroid Eulthran I'm not too sure about allowing it to scoop cans though, if you do allow it to, who in their right mind is ever going to fly the "old-style" haulers anymore?
People who have less to move and will use a cheaper ship to do it? -
DesuSigs |
MenanceWhite
Red Light Navy
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Posted - 2008.07.11 12:40:00 -
[25]
Edited by: MenanceWhite on 11/07/2008 12:40:08 I like isAzmodeus suggestion. ---
Originally by: Torfi There's alot. That can be done. With.. corpses
Originally by: Oveur
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2008.07.11 12:57:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Princess Jodi I used to be in favor of a 'mini-freighter', but not anymore. Just fix the Suicide Ganking problem, so that people in Empire can safely fill up their Freighters again, and the need for another ship goes away. Put a single slot or a built-in Tractor/Salvager and you've completely eliminated the need for another ship type.
eh, but I would like to have a smaller ship that can carry a battleship or two, and costs less than a freighter, going 50mil for a transport to 900mil for a freighter is a bit of a big step
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MenanceWhite
Amarr Red Light Navy
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Posted - 2008.07.11 13:16:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton a smaller ship that can carry a battleship or two, and costs less than a freighter
my thoughts exactly ---
Originally by: Torfi There's alot. That can be done. With.. corpses
Originally by: Oveur
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Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2008.07.11 13:24:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro The important thing is that it has at least one well-defined role and has the necessary capacity for that role, and that it doesn't displace anything else from its own unique role. At the moment, it sounds as though it's aimed squarely at mining ops, for people who want to move lots of ore at once without having to deploy a rorqual for 10 minutes.
150k to 300k in cargo space (skills and mod dependant) No rig slots 3 lows (two WCS, and a cargo expander gets you at least three battleships) 2 mids (for moderate tanking) 1 high slot for a single tractor with a bonus to range (eliminate it from the salvage role)
Alignment slightly higher than Itty V Warp speed same as Itty V Halfway resists armor/shield between Itty V and Blockade Runners No drone bay
Mild bonuses to mining gang and skill Dependant
Invented off the top haulers prints, and requires some capital parts and T2 components. Build cost should try to fall in line around the 280 to 500mil mark. |
Abrazzar
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Posted - 2008.07.11 17:32:00 -
[29]
YAY!!
When will it get in-game? When? When? Soon or EvEntually? Better be now!
*sugarrush* (That is no sugar...) -------- Ideas for: Mining |
Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
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Posted - 2008.07.12 11:28:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Kazzac Elentria 150k to 300k in cargo space (skills and mod dependant)
300k would errode market share from jump freighters unless jump freighters also got a boost. They're currently 'the' agile way to move that sized cargo around in empire (ie, more agile than a freighter, but carrying alot more than a hauler).
Personally I'd like to see a jumpdriveless Rorqual with the ability to carry other ships in the bay aside from haulers (to let people move rigged ships around empire if needed)
Probably with less tanking ability, and a slightly faster warp than freighters (though less than a cruiser sized ship).
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Lrrp
Drahathinar Tribe
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Posted - 2008.07.12 13:09:00 -
[31]
I like the concept of a larger hauler as it pertains to high sec POS's. The thing that holds me back from setting one up is all the time it takes to haul fuel for it. 150-300k space would make it fueling POS's a lot easier without the expense of buying a freighter. So thumbs up. And judging by the comments here I don't see anyone really against the idea.
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Ava Santiago
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Posted - 2008.07.12 20:24:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Ava Santiago on 12/07/2008 20:24:32 I'd like to see a big brother to the Transport ships.. with about 10 times the base space.
With a base around 40,000-75,000 m3 and 10 medium/low slots, the ship would be interesting to haul in. Assuming you maxed cargo expanders and rigs, the hold size might approach but not exceed the racial jump freighter.
The lack of ability to "fit" a freighter makes the ship a known gank target. Player time spent discussing ship fittings is entertaining, without the ability to fit the ship that aspect of the game is lost.
I'm also a fan of massive tanks, but I suspect most pirates are not. In the end, the space vs. tank issue will need to be balanced. Right now, the freighter tank is too small for the value of cargo it can haul. If this ship fits in a similar vein, with out the ability to build a powerful tank, then the ship will not be well received. Concord doesn't provide consequences. Concord provides insurance payouts. |
Narffy
Imperial Coalition
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Posted - 2008.07.13 01:38:00 -
[33]
Why not fix the Freighter/Jump Freighter first?
Slots should be given to these ships before coming out with another ship that is intended to carry cargo. Coming out with more ships while not addressing the issue with these is simply dancing around this issue. One of the great things in EVE is that ships are very customizable. CCP even provided rigs so we can further customize our ships. Then you suddenly hop in your freighter and it's like hitting a brick wall...you can't do ANYTHING to customize it at all! These 900 mil ships are as pathetic as shuttles.
I would like CCP to do the following to freighters/jump freighters before releasing another cargo ship: 1. Decrease the cargo space by around 50% to 70%. 2. Give them mid/low/rig slots. 3. Make it so the cargo space with all T2 expanders and optimization rigs equals the cargo space of current ships. 4. Increase base velocity so it will match current ships' velocity when setup with expanders. 5. Allow these ships the flexibility of fitting defensive, speed, etc. modules.
The above changes bring these ships more in line with all the other ships in EVE. It gives us choices. Hostiles don't automatically know our ships stats. We can setup to tank with the ships well enough to prevent getting suicide killed.
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The Racketeer
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Posted - 2008.07.14 01:04:00 -
[34]
the planned Orca should be able to fill the role when rigged and fitted for cargo space.
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Kronos
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Posted - 2008.07.15 12:19:00 -
[35]
A Small-freighter sized hauler would be nice.
Also I would like to see a covert ops industrial something not massive in cargo hold size but something that can be used to get past gate campers.
Also possiblity to add a drone bay to the industrials so they can atleast protect themselfs.
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Siebenthal
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Posted - 2008.07.15 13:41:00 -
[36]
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Transmaniacon
Minmatar Strike-Force-Alpha
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Posted - 2008.07.15 18:59:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Transmaniacon on 15/07/2008 18:59:55 I think if CCP did add this ship, it would be identical to a freighter in terms of fitting, but it would feature less space and better agility. Eve is a multiplayer game and adding all these slots to let it have a tank, cloak, drones, etc. is just supporting the solo players. I have nothing wrong with people playing the game solo, but I think CCP wants to encourage teamwork and having to take some protection on a freighter move in high-sec space should be encouraged. I feel this small freighter is the Orca, but should CCP release an additional ship, I think it would be capable of carrying one freight container, so I expect a cargo-hold of 120,000 m3, with no fitting slots, etc, and possibly a bonus to agility per level.
Edit: Forgot that CCP mentioned a possible tractor beam bonus, so maybe 1 high slot for a tractor beam.
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Ashen Angel
Minmatar AA Mining
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Posted - 2008.07.15 19:04:00 -
[38]
I would like something smaller than my obelisk, but larger than my occator.
The jump is from 38k m3 to 800k+ m3 cargo.
Something say in the 1-2 freight container range would be nice (120-240k m3)
The use of cans and tractors would make it very nice for a mining operation. (1 ship replacing 3-6 other haulers)
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Shirakahn
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Posted - 2008.07.15 23:02:00 -
[39]
My idea of a cargo (small freighter) Call it flat out "CARGO ship" Requires Indie V and a new class of skill for CARGO
Cargo: 75k to 100k
Speed half-way between Ity V and a freighter 2 Hi's 4 mids (obvious reasons) and 1 or 2 lows (no huge boost from expanders)
Mid-sized drone bay...right I said drone bay If it can't fight at least allow it some defense or repair. Liberty ships in WW2 at least had a small gun.
Gotta be able to tank a attack for at least a little while..
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Loreliee
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Posted - 2008.07.16 16:33:00 -
[40]
Wonderful news. There has been a gaping hole in between 1m industrials and 1b freighters for far too long.
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Futchmacht
Foundation
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Posted - 2008.07.16 18:26:00 -
[41]
Somthing in between is needed for sure ..
i figure somewhere around 100km3 to 150km3 cargo space.
able to use jetcans and with tractors capital or normal.
this would be a bridge gap ship for miners in empire. as well as alowing people who cant afford a billion isk to transport more then the tiny amout alowed with indy. and transport ships. the the advent of t2 ore ships. and nothing new in the hauling department. miners are left in the dust trying to move the large amouts of ore they can mine in an efficent way. when a small corp mining group has 4 hulds pulling 4000m3 or more each. personaly i can pull 4500m3 every 3 minutes. after a good day of mining transporting it all to sell or to move it for production is a pain.
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Ashen Angel
AA Mining
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Posted - 2008.07.17 01:59:00 -
[42]
I think another option would be to add a bulk transport class ship.
Instead of a the deep space transport's tank it has a cargo bonus.
Take an interon V hull for instance, and increase the cargo base by 2x normal. Keep the slot layout and allow both the industrial and transports skills to apply to cargo bonuses (std 5% per lvl, but 10% per level for transports skill.. would really give an incentive to train up the transports skills)
So using the interon as an example: 12000m3 base cargo Gal. Industrial V = +25% = 15000 m3 Transports V = +50% more = 22500 m3 With 5 cargo expanders: 75811.22 m3 + Pair of T1 cargo rigs: 100260.34m3
(if I did my math right)
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Alz Shado
Ever Flow
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Posted - 2008.07.17 17:57:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Alz Shado on 17/07/2008 18:02:51 What's needed most is a ship that's more mobile and less expensive than a freighter, can carry more than a standard DST rigged/modded out to it's max, and features enough options to not require four empire-specific models just to complicate life.
-On par with the speed and agility of an exhumer -Holds exactly 1 Cargo Container (120m3) -Warps at 2au/s -Features a slot configuration of 1/0/1 for a cloak and WCS or istab.
Priced at 250m, this would be a welcome addition to the small-to-medium industrial/trade segment. //// ---------=== []= ---------=== \\\\ Rifter(RedBad)
"Kill a man one is a murderer; kill a million, a conqueror; kill them all, a God." -- Jean Rostand |
Daniel Barbosa
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Posted - 2008.07.21 18:25:00 -
[44]
If this ship does come along it should be accompanied by a ban of some sort on people using cargo containers inside industrials that add up to more cargo space in total than the ship is designed to accommodate. I do it myself - I have eight containers in an Iteron V, greatly increasing the amount I can carry - but it always strikes me as ridiculous. This is EVE, not Doctor Who. A ship between a hauler and a freighter would eliminate the need to do it I'd have thought.
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Redbad
TSL Wolfpack
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Posted - 2008.07.24 12:21:00 -
[45]
Awesome idea. I think it will greatly stimulate New Eden's economy and trade. More stuff can be moved around without endless little hauls with no margins to give away to the hauler; Or move stuff with one large haul with risk and lack of frequency.
Idea to the ingame specs: - Some slots to configure it (not too many to keep the defined role apparent). - Perhaps enough to fit a warpcore stab. - Must be able to hold a base of one freighter cargo container (120K m3's) - Keep the price around 100-150 mio so the investment will be in line with the ability to use it in low-sec also. If you make it too expensive people wont take it in low-sec wich could use some more good logistics.
RB
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Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2008.07.24 12:34:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Kronos
Also I would like to see a covert ops industrial something not massive in cargo hold size but something that can be used to get past gate campers.
We already have ships for this. About the only thing that will stop them is a ewar boosted heavy dicter. |
Redbad
Minmatar TSL Wolfpack
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Posted - 2008.07.24 14:24:00 -
[47]
And to stimulate more low-sec travel it would be good that it has less effect to webbing it with more skills on the one that pilots the super-industrial.
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Mister Xerox
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Posted - 2008.07.24 14:30:00 -
[48]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler A spaceship type that is somewhere between an industrial and a freighter is currently in development. Abilities may include the use of cans and capital tractor beams, but design features are subject to change.
Please please please don't allow these things to load/unload in space except at a POS!!! You'll see macro mobs with them everywhere towing in entire belts!
I would like to see them have a few utility slots & bonuses to fitting logistic modules (range only on energy x-fer, no quantity boost) to support their own escort fleet, with built in warp core strength modified by pilot skill (2 points per level) and commedable tanks.
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I SoStoned
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Posted - 2008.07.24 14:33:00 -
[49]
Yes, look at freighters. Give them some mid/low slots so the stupid things can fit stuff to affect their cargo or speed or whatever.
Just increase the size of repackaged capitals by a factor of 10 and they still won't fit in a super uber expanded freighter of suicidally large tasty cargo.
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Redbad
Minmatar TSL Wolfpack
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Posted - 2008.07.24 14:37:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Mister Xerox
Originally by: CCP Wrangler A spaceship type that is somewhere between an industrial and a freighter is currently in development. Abilities may include the use of cans and capital tractor beams, but design features are subject to change.
Please please please don't allow these things to load/unload in space except at a POS!!! You'll see macro mobs with them everywhere towing in entire belts!
I would like to see them have a few utility slots & bonuses to fitting logistic modules (range only on energy x-fer, no quantity boost) to support their own escort fleet, with built in warp core strength modified by pilot skill (2 points per level) and commedable tanks.
Agreed.
Hauling ore during ming can be done fine with industrials, and the Roqual was already added to make mining ops better. This new ship should be directed at moving stuffz around through gates at longer distances not the short distances that can be covered by industrials.
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Jennifer Celeste
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Posted - 2008.07.24 14:48:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Princess Jodi I used to be in favor of a 'mini-freighter', but not anymore. Just fix the Suicide Ganking problem,
removing the sandbox element from eve? you seem intent on turning this into WoW in space...gtfo.
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Hamfast
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.07.24 15:33:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Jennifer Celeste
Originally by: Princess Jodi I used to be in favor of a 'mini-freighter', but not anymore. Just fix the Suicide Ganking problem,
removing the sandbox element from eve? you seem intent on turning this into WoW in space...gtfo.
Fixing an issue does not always mean removing it... it means "Fixing" it...
--------*****--------
"Just think how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider!" --George Carlin |
Jennifer Celeste
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Posted - 2008.07.24 18:08:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Hamfast
Originally by: Jennifer Celeste
Originally by: Princess Jodi I used to be in favor of a 'mini-freighter', but not anymore. Just fix the Suicide Ganking problem,
removing the sandbox element from eve? you seem intent on turning this into WoW in space...gtfo.
Fixing an issue does not always mean removing it... it means "Fixing" it...
Suicide ganking doesnt need to be fixed. The fact that people think theyre safe flying 50b worth of stuff in an unescorted, autopiloted freighter is a smart idea, thats the real issue that needs to be addressed. And it is, in the form of suicide ganking.
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Cyberman Mastermind
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Posted - 2008.08.20 11:54:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Mister Xerox Please please please don't allow these things to load/unload in space except at a POS!!! You'll see macro mobs with them everywhere towing in entire belts!
How exactly would this be any different from macros using an industrial now?
If you're that afraid of macros, may I suggest we shut down the entire server? It's the only way to permanenty get rid of them. (Of course, you lose all legit player as well, but that hardly bothers anyone concerned about macros.) |
Elhina Novae
Destruction Reborn CORPVS DELICTI
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Posted - 2008.08.20 14:34:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Ford Hakata A sub-freighter sized hauler would be nice, especially if it's a "stealth hauler" - a hauler that can make use of the Black Op's covert jump bridge. (This would also allow covert gangs to go on extended missions with enough fuel, while being able to bring back the loot from those missions.)
Note, I'm suggesting a different ship than a "mini-me" Rorqual for high-sec mining ops.
This post!
/support |
Somealt Ofmine
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Posted - 2008.08.20 19:06:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Somealt Ofmine on 20/08/2008 19:17:36 Edited by: Somealt Ofmine on 20/08/2008 19:06:01 Should have the abiliy to scoop/jettison anywhere. This is something freighters can't do, and so gives it a role.
Capital tractor is a good touch. Makes it the hauler of choice for empire mining ops or small-gang 0.0 ops.
Able to fit a tank/cloak = bad juju, unless its hold is really small (sub 50K). If you make a smaller ship that can tank better than a freighter, and cloak, and carry multiple battleships or equivelent, you'll pretty much obsolete freighters.
Nobody is going to haul more, and be a gank target, when they could haul a little less, and be relatively safe. I'd just ask that you take the economics of a high-sec suicide gank into consideration when you do your design.
Edit: I too support the notion of a "black ops" logistic ship, but I don't think this ship should be it. That ship should be a third T2 industrial to go along with the DST and the Blockade Runner. Providing a stealthy ship of this size is a little over the top. |
Anig Browl
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.08.20 21:09:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Zaphroid Eulthran
I'm not too sure about allowing it to scoop cans though, if you do allow it to, who in their right mind is ever going to fly the "old-style" haulers anymore?
Newbies? Indeed, as a solo player I still fly my badger II all the time with a cloaking/ECM/mini tank; cheaper and more fun than the t2 variant - for the same money you could finance a small escort fleet. The additional cargo space isn't outstanding.
Quote:
I would prefer this to be a huge industrial ship rather than a smaller freighter, if only to avoid the freighter skill, the equivilant of battleship size and probably just a bit over battleship cost as well seems about right.
120,000m3 is the size of the largest courier contract you can make so I see a target for this ship, I also like the symetry of a 200Mil ISK pricetag.
This!! I'd be happy with a Rokh model with a rusty old industrial texture. Should be just big enough to carry one packaged battleship natively and punch around the level of a small battlecruiser. This would reflect the actual history of merchant marine ships during wartime.
I hate mining but am jealous of the interesting ship selections available to miners. On the other hand I actually like hauling from a roleplaying POV; right now the farther you progress with it, the worse it gets. Your risks and costs go way up, while your ships can do less and less. You might as well just sit in station and issue courier contracts. |
Anig Browl
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Posted - 2008.08.20 21:32:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Mister Xerox Please please please don't allow these things to load/unload in space except at a POS!!! You'll see macro mobs with them everywhere towing in entire belts!
Maybe just disallow large ships in NPC corps. Or have it that NPC corps tax mineral sales (or whatever their specialty is) the way player corps typically tax bounties and mission rewards. You work for a big corp in the real world, you get regular pay and benefits in return for which they keep 80% of your productivity. In Eve you are secure from War declarations, but your so-called employer lets you make as much money as you want on the side.
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Carniflex
Caldari StarHunt Fallout Project
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Posted - 2008.08.21 06:00:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Lord Fitz
300k would errode market share from jump freighters unless jump freighters also got a boost. They're currently 'the' agile way to move that sized cargo around in empire (ie, more agile than a freighter, but carrying alot more than a hauler).
Personally I'd like to see a jumpdriveless Rorqual with the ability to carry other ships in the bay aside from haulers (to let people move rigged ships around empire if needed)
Probably with less tanking ability, and a slightly faster warp than freighters (though less than a cruiser sized ship).
300 k would be a bit above the top indeed. I imagine something in the ballpark of 100 k would be adequate if it would have reasonable agility advantage over regular freighter. |
Penchance
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Posted - 2008.08.21 08:18:00 -
[60]
It seems the thread is divided roughly into those who want a slightly bigger industrial ship and those who want a slightly bigger industrial ship will all the tractor bells and jump whistles attached.
I propose a new class: Heavy Industrial Its T1 incarnation would just be a miniature freighter with enough cargo space to hold a couple of General Freight Containers. It would then have two T2 options: Deep Space Logistics or Jumpbridge Transport Deep Space Logistics would allow interaction with cans, mounting of Capital Tractor Beams and other equipment (e.g. for tanking). The trade-off being that the additional power grid and CPU requirements means that cargo capacity is cut by perhaps half. Jumpbridge Transport would be analogous to an Airbridge and - as the name suggests - would install a jump drive into the ship to allow it to pass through blockades. Again, cargo space would be halved to account for the increased systems requirement.
Skill-wise, there's no reason why Freighters should have anything to do with this. Heavy Industrial could (or should be) a skill dependent on Industrial, perhaps requiring Industrial 4 but Advanced Spaceship Command 1. The T1 variant is just a big ship so we should be forgiving when it comes to skills but the T2 variants should require quite a few level fives besides Heavy Industrial 5 (obviously). |
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procurement specialist
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Posted - 2008.08.21 16:03:00 -
[61]
Edited by: procurement specialist on 21/08/2008 16:03:44 i propose 2 teirs.
tier 1 has maybe 5km3 cargo and enough ship maintenance to haul any rigged sub cap ship. because moving a rigged ship around in empire if you can't fly it is near impossible.
teir 2 has bonus to fitting cap tractor beam and 1 high slot. you can cloak or tractor not both. give it 4-5 lows and a base of 30km3 OR 2 lows and a base of 80km3 and say cargo rigs can't work on it. enough mids for about 200k ehp. might be too much but should take prolly 2-3 bs to gank in highsec.
they should be able to work with cans because otherwise it is still a jump from a hauler to 1.5 bil rorq which takes more isk in skillbooks to train than a freighter as well.
edit and both should be teir 1 to help with insurance. losing that much cargo is already enough hurt.
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W3370Pi4
Caldari Lords Of Kaos
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Posted - 2008.08.27 00:53:00 -
[62]
i hope we will be able to take benefits from the transport skill Capital mining ship idea
Vitreous Mercoxit ! What else |
AndzX11
Siorai Iontach
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Posted - 2008.08.27 09:51:00 -
[63]
Give it 150`000m3 capacity, 6 high slots with 4 tractor beam hard-points.
Maybe some sort of salvage range bonus or something like that too. Something useful. Or perhaps give them a bonus to agility and I mean 10% so that they warp 2x faster than the large freighters(150m3 and 1 million m3 hence the better agility).
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Deviana Sevidon
Gallente Panta-Rhei United Front Alliance
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Posted - 2008.08.27 13:02:00 -
[64]
I would like the ship to have a ship maintenance bay, large enough for cruiser and battlecruiser.
This would ferrying rigged T2 ships much easier in Empire and give the new Hauler a unique role.
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Pliauga
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2008.08.28 09:59:00 -
[65]
Signed.
---------- DRONE love rulez!! 'mkay?! LONG range/"OUT OF SYSTEM" artillery |
telxkiskisrowr
The Greater Goon GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.09.09 16:27:00 -
[66]
would be very nice for the smaller people out here. even if you are in a big alliance much of your efforts are from personal supplies. Why does it take so much training to melt ice? |
Jorroo
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.09.09 17:50:00 -
[67]
Give it 50kM3 agility of a frieghter and 5 low slots required skill is Trainsport Ship V
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procurement specialist
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Posted - 2008.09.09 18:42:00 -
[68]
it should be t1 so no t2 requirements here. also no non-t2 ship requires a l5 in teh previous to fly. that is like saying you should need caldari frigate and crusier V before you can even train caldari bs 1.
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TimMc
Gallente SolaR KillerS
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Posted - 2008.09.09 21:33:00 -
[69]
Something inbetween industrial and freighter would be nice, but its not really necessary.
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procurement specialist
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Posted - 2008.09.10 16:23:00 -
[70]
Originally by: TimMc Something inbetween industrial and freighter would be nice, but its not really necessary.
the enitre point of this thread is that a 100m rigged uninsurable ittyV with 38km3 (18km3 unrigged and 5m tops) and a 750km3 freighter costing 900m-1bil is too big a jump.
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Rob Buie
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Posted - 2008.09.10 18:54:00 -
[71]
Originally by: procurement specialist
tier 1 has maybe 5km3 cargo and enough ship maintenance to haul any rigged sub cap ship. because moving a rigged ship around in empire if you can't fly it is near impossible.
You realise that a km^3 is 1000m * 1000m * 1000m, thats 1,000,000,000 m^3. What unit could you possibly mean? 5000m^3 is obviously an industrial, and something that can just manage to squeeze in an unpackaged battleship (sub cap) is already in place, its the Freighter. |
procurement specialist
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Posted - 2008.09.10 20:57:00 -
[72]
Edited by: procurement specialist on 10/09/2008 21:03:56
Originally by: Rob Buie
Originally by: procurement specialist
tier 1 has maybe 5km3 cargo and enough ship maintenance to haul any rigged sub cap ship. because moving a rigged ship around in empire if you can't fly it is near impossible.
You realise that a km^3 is 1000m * 1000m * 1000m, thats 1,000,000,000 m^3. What unit could you possibly mean? 5000m^3 is obviously an industrial, and something that can just manage to squeeze in an unpackaged battleship (sub cap) is already in place, its the Freighter.
A rigged ship MUST be assembled. only packaged, non-assembled ships can be put into cargo. packaging a rigged ship destroys the rigs. assembled ships can only go into a sma ship maintenance array.
the 5km3 is for fittings to move with your ship.
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TordenSkiold
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Posted - 2008.09.10 23:18:00 -
[73]
Supported.
But this ship type should not be able to carry ore or containers containing ore (that function is already spoken for).
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Khanid MMVIII
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Posted - 2008.09.11 09:44:00 -
[74]
First, i do not think this is a great idea of bringing in another ship that can transport large amounts of cargo.
Lets first focus ourselves on fixing the JF: 1. Give THAT ship a possibility to fit rigs or a cap.tractor beam. 2. Give it low or med slots to fit something of a tank. Flying a 4 billion isk ship with NO slots is scary. I know there is some logic behind this, so flame me for that :P 3. If you are really going through with this: first boost the JF with first 2 points :P
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procurement specialist
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Posted - 2008.09.12 00:20:00 -
[75]
a non-rigged itty V gets 18km3. a max rigged ittyV gets 38km3. the smallest freighter is 750km3. there needs to be something in between there man. that doesn't cost nearly a billion and is insurable.
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Isaac Starstriker
Amarr Sisterhood of Galactic Sirens
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Posted - 2008.10.04 08:19:00 -
[76]
No, no and NO.
I fly a Freighter myself and fly the T2 Amarr Indys and I say NO to this. If you make a ship bigger than the Impel, you will easily nerf the Freighter. I can't state the reasons until I see the actual stats, but it most likely nerf the Freighter and especially the Jump Freighter. Leave it be CCP.
--Isaac |
Col Callahan
Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.10.04 10:56:00 -
[77]
Signed/
I support the implementation of a ship type that has 400k space in its haul and can use cans, capital tractor beams would be a plus but cost has to be half of a normal freighter, like 450mill.
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Dex Nederland
Lai Dai Infinity Systems
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Posted - 2008.10.04 11:33:00 -
[78]
Could start off by giving the Caldari & Amarr an Industrial that is competitive with the Iteron V and then something 'in between'.
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Kyritu
Septum et Trigentium L.L.C.
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Posted - 2008.10.06 17:46:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Penchance It seems the thread is divided roughly into those who want a slightly bigger industrial ship and those who want a slightly bigger industrial ship will all the tractor bells and jump whistles attached.
I propose a new class: Heavy Industrial Its T1 incarnation would just be a miniature freighter with enough cargo space to hold a couple of General Freight Containers. It would then have two T2 options: Deep Space Logistics or Jumpbridge Transport Deep Space Logistics would allow interaction with cans, mounting of Capital Tractor Beams and other equipment (e.g. for tanking). The trade-off being that the additional power grid and CPU requirements means that cargo capacity is cut by perhaps half. Jumpbridge Transport would be analogous to an Airbridge and - as the name suggests - would install a jump drive into the ship to allow it to pass through blockades. Again, cargo space would be halved to account for the increased systems requirement.
Skill-wise, there's no reason why Freighters should have anything to do with this. Heavy Industrial could (or should be) a skill dependent on Industrial, perhaps requiring Industrial 4 but Advanced Spaceship Command 1. The T1 variant is just a big ship so we should be forgiving when it comes to skills but the T2 variants should require quite a few level fives besides Heavy Industrial 5 (obviously).
Sounds like an awesome idea to me. My alt would still fly a freighter when needed but this gives more fun options and avoids some risks of losing such a huge investment.
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Slab Drinklots
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Posted - 2008.10.10 13:30:00 -
[80]
Edited by: Slab Drinklots on 10/10/2008 13:31:44 Why complicate things, just make a BS sized hauler class.
Just like a normal hauler, price around 50-150M isk etc. A simple stepping stone towards the freighters.
If you want to do fancy jumping cloaking omghax ships, make a T2 variant.
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procurement specialist
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Posted - 2008.10.13 02:34:00 -
[81]
was there a prayer of this making it out in the december industrial patch?
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Jason Edwards
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Posted - 2008.10.13 05:03:00 -
[82]
-Tier 3 transport? Would be ideal I think. Currently there's like no reason to train transport above 1. -no cloak option so it isnt used to get through blockade of any kind. -use of cans would be reasonable. -tractor beam single would be best. ------------------------ "There was this bright flash of light - and now this egg shaped thing is on my screen - did I level up?" |
procurement specialist
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:17:00 -
[83]
why does everyone want to make it a friggin t2 ship?
on second thought just give me whatever ships rats can fly that drops a 20m trit load and can loot.
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loki gallach
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Posted - 2008.10.16 04:34:00 -
[84]
You had the perfect ship for the job. And you put it in low sec only. Where it now sits at a pos, compressing ore. Or used as a hauler. What a sad end for a great idea. Used in empire it would have been the centerpiece of mining operations, And provided a way for meduim sized corps to dip their toes in low sec. With out the Full blown (TIME) commitmant of a pos. also would have been used for exploration I.E grav sites
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procurement specialist
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Posted - 2008.10.16 11:23:00 -
[85]
well the orca is going to be a cap ship. likely like the freighter that can use gates because i don't see what purpose a second a second jump capable ore capital would serve but meh.
here's to having to go spend the billion isk on cap ship skill books still. it was a significant part of the barrier to entry. i really hope these mini-freighters don't take more than 500m in books.
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Thargat
Caldari North Star Networks Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2008.10.16 18:09:00 -
[86]
I'd really like to see more specialized transport ships. Strontium Haulers, Race specific isotope haulers, mineral haulers and so forth. Would make hauling a bit more interesting without destroying logistical difficulties even more (like JBs and JFs have).
There's only one sig that matters... and that's Radius. |
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