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Is anyone using Black Ops ships?

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Mors Magne Caldari	Posted - 2008.07.12 00:43:00 - [1] Is anyone using them to useful effect? Is it worth skilling up to use them?
SuiJuris	Posted - 2008.07.12 00:46:00 - [2] in short no. They have terrible scan res so your better off with a Tier 1 BS with a cloaking device. Also they have serious PG / CPU issues and cannot field as much DPS / Tank as the Tier 1 counterparts. As for the Jump Bridge what not its to limited and the cargohold is to small to hold enough fuel. That is black ops in a Nutshell. im sure theres other issues.
Apoctasy The Python Cartel	Posted - 2008.07.12 01:20:00 - [3] Originally by: SuiJuris in short no. They have terrible scan res so your better off with a Tier 1 BS with a cloaking device. Also they have serious PG / CPU issues and cannot field as much DPS / Tank as the Tier 1 counterparts. As for the Jump Bridge what not its to limited and the cargohold is to small to hold enough fuel. That is black ops in a Nutshell. im sure theres other issues. Pretty much hit the nail on the head there. Black Ops needs some serious changes to be viable. ----
Franga NQX Innovations	Posted - 2008.07.12 01:23:00 - [4] People are still using them, however. Just rare. Someone in my corp popped a faction fitted one the other day. Jerk got 1500 points for it even though there were about 8 people on the mail. Originally by: Rachel Vend ... with 100% reliability in most cases ...
Wideen Contraband Inc.	Posted - 2008.07.12 08:52:00 - [5] Originally by: Franga People are still using them, however. Just rare. Someone in my corp popped a faction fitted one the other day. Jerk got 1500 points for it even though there were about 8 people on the mail. carrier points!!
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated	Posted - 2008.07.12 08:55:00 - [6] Edited by: goodby4u on 12/07/2008 08:55:48 Theres a reason you dont see people using them. THEY ARE BLACK OPS!
achoura	Posted - 2008.07.12 09:54:00 - [7] Suppose it's ironic, but they make better ratters than pvpers , actually marauders make better pvp ships that b-ops *The EVE servers and their patches*
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.07.12 09:57:00 - [8] Originally by: achoura Suppose it's ironic, but they make better ratters than pvpers , actually marauders make better pvp ships that b-ops I don't know if that's ironic. . . But come on - if they DIDN'T cost 750 million isk they might be more common. How many people really want to take that under gunned under tanked isk into battle? If they don't fix the damn things then I'd be satisfied with a massive price cut (this is a solution for Afrigs too).
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.07.12 10:06:00 - [9] I own one. It's a lovely hangar ornament. Haven't actually got as far as fitting it yet though, let alone undocking it. (Well, that's a lie. I undocked it to look at it and think 'ooh shiny' and then docked it again). Sadly suboptimal, and as much because they lack much they can actually do well enough, to make them worth the opportunity cost. The Widow in particular, can do about 3 things, badly. But all round medicore does not a good ship make. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking?
EmperorPirk	Posted - 2008.07.12 10:08:00 - [10] I had one before, but I sold mine and bought a faction BS instead. just look at them, they have less dps, less hp, a massive recharge time on shields (around 3500 with BC hp amount... WTF!?), targeting penaulty from cloak, really short jump range, no room for fuel if you wanna pack some ammo in there too, and the price is just... meh. atleast they can cloak and go quite fast while doing so, and they can turn really good too. we can just hope for a slight boost or some more "usefull" role for them soon.
Anubis Xian Reavers	Posted - 2008.07.12 10:44:00 - [11] Clowns...that is about it. Originally by: CCP Oveur The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal. I'm the Juggernaut, *****!
Bartholomeus Crane Gallente The Crane Family	Posted - 2008.07.12 14:17:00 - [12] When CCP will allow deep space transports to use the black ops jump gate as well, then these ships will become useful. Until then, no. -- Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Balla Gak	Posted - 2008.07.12 16:11:00 - [13] Anyone want to sell me there sin? I tend to believe these ships are awesome at help and response times to troubled team mates. That and to a low sec pirate roaming and doing the whole 'warp cloak' trick should make them quite appealing tbh.
Word	Posted - 2008.07.12 17:20:00 - [14] Edited by: Word on 12/07/2008 17:21:22 Originally by: Balla Gak Anyone want to sell me there sin? I tend to believe these ships are awesome at help and response times to troubled team mates. That and to a low sec pirate roaming and doing the whole 'warp cloak' trick should make them quite appealing tbh. Yes, I do that with most my ships, T2 transport, cruisers, BS, Mammoth hauler, it's a great tactic and with practice, you can get really good at it. And of course, with a ship that can get to warp align speed while cloaked makes it sooo easy, you don't need to do the MWD toggle thing. A couple problems a least and already mentioned, mobile warp disrupt, Heavy Interdictor(sp?) Your only chance is to MWD out of range then pray that the align time is not excessive.(barring any 40km webbers bad luck) I (me my alt and I) got a few Panther BPCs, started hauling Capital Warp Drives, started training up, then I find out that the damn thing needs a gang just to jump. To me that's a rip-off. CCP scam to get people training up capital jump drive skills to suck players into going for support intensive Capital ship roles. Reason is, the less you can do solo, the more people you have to gang with just to accomplish the basic role. I'll still build the Panthers eventually, but switched training to Marauders for now. Hopefully the Black ops will be fixed in a couple years, for example, the time it took to fix the Stealth Bomber, ( I love that ship now, lots of fun.)
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.07.12 17:50:00 - [15] Edited by: Lord WarATron on 12/07/2008 17:51:00 Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane When CCP will allow deep space transports to use the black ops jump gate as well, then these ships will become useful. Until then, no. ??? If it could portal all sup capital ships it would make sense. Portaling Deep Space transport for pvp is not exactly the solution. E.G If people can portal hics etc and then jump to the cyno afterwards. This assumes fual usage is fixed to a sensible amount. Tell then, blackops is about as useful as Super Mario ùù-▒▒▒▒▒ -▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒ -ù▓▓▓░░▓░ -▓░▓░░░▓░░░ -▓░▓▓░░░▓░░░ -▓▓░░░░▓▓▓▓ -ù-░░░░░░░░ -▓▓▒▓▓▓▒▓▓ -▓▓▓▒▓▓▓▒▓▓▓ ▓▓▓▓▒▒▒▒▒▓▓▓▓ ░░▓▒░▒▒▒░▒▓░░ ░░░▒▒▒▒▒▒▒░░░ ░░▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒░░ ù-▒▒▒-ù-▒▒▒ -▓▓▓-ù-ù▓▓▓ ▓▓▓▓-ùùù▓▓▓ -- Billion Isk Mission
Celestra Doxaila The Graduates	Posted - 2008.07.12 22:34:00 - [16] Edited by: Celestra Doxaila on 12/07/2008 22:35:00 Blah nevermind, I need to actually read before I reply. :)
Sydian Rie Minmatar The Monkey Sanctuary	Posted - 2008.07.13 02:49:00 - [17] Edited by: Sydian Rie on 13/07/2008 02:52:50 I've had my sin since the second week they came out and have only used it once to test the covert jump bridge, since then....it's been parked. Can't really find a good use for it, at least a good use that will ACTUALLY be utilized. When was the last time you could scrounge up 60 cov ops or sb to go gank a system ONLY 5ly away. My Kronos has been used a LOT on the other hand, both for ratting and some pvp/POS sieging.
PirceHat	Posted - 2008.07.13 02:53:00 - [18] Nanopanther > nanomach (for carrier bumping)
dichroic	Posted - 2008.07.13 11:48:00 - [19] I know theres a limit to how far the black ops can jump itself (like 4ly with lv4 skill iirc), but is there a limit to how far you can jump bridge other ships or can u fire them anywhere fule dependant?
Bodhisattvas Wife BEATERS	Posted - 2008.07.13 15:44:00 - [20] Originally by: SuiJuris in short no. They have terrible scan res so your better off with a Tier 1 BS with a cloaking device. Also they have serious PG / CPU issues and cannot field as much DPS / Tank as the Tier 1 counterparts. As for the Jump Bridge what not its to limited and the cargohold is to small to hold enough fuel. That is black ops in a Nutshell. im sure theres other issues. The above text is *****s. Not using them is anyone's guess but the stupid reasons you give are just that... stupid! You either have never flown them and read that stuff off the back of a cornflakes box. You have to be a moron to try and fit these ships as purely offensive, either that or you have too much isk. So complaining not enough grid etc blaa blaa is just that blaa blaa. Black ops are somewhat poor regarding jump range as with even maximum navigation jump skills you will probably still find yourself using jump gates due to short jump range. The fuel problem can be cured with cargo expanders, its the jump range and being in a corp that can be arsed with the logisitics of setting up ganks using black ops and recons. Black ops fill a nice niche in the game its just that most peeps are more interested in being part of a blob when conducting their so called pvp. After all why bother to plan ganks when you can just blob folk instead ? Just another way ccp are choosing to ** the game up instigating (F)ag (W)arfare aka blobs r us, buts that's another discussion.
Jita Dancer	Posted - 2008.07.13 16:10:00 - [21] Edited by: Jita Dancer on 13/07/2008 16:12:43 SK Rooster of NOTR flies one - I know, he killed my Astarte with his Sin, after neuting my tank dry in seconds his drones whacked me so hard my teeth were ringing. They are viable, just expensive and fragile. Go to Syndicate and pick a scrap with him if you think they are weak - he gives free lessons in losing your ship...
White Ronin Gallente Screenout	Posted - 2008.07.13 16:55:00 - [22] Originally by: Bodhisattvas The above text is *****s. Not using them is anyone's guess but the stupid reasons you give are just that... stupid! You either have never flown them and read that stuff off the back of a cornflakes box. You have to be a moron to try and fit these ships as purely offensive, either that or you have too much isk. So complaining not enough grid etc blaa blaa is just that blaa blaa. Black ops are somewhat poor regarding jump range as with even maximum navigation jump skills you will probably still find yourself using jump gates due to short jump range. The fuel problem can be cured with cargo expanders, its the jump range and being in a corp that can be arsed with the logisitics of setting up ganks using black ops and recons. Black ops fill a nice niche in the game its just that most peeps are more interested in being part of a blob when conducting their so called pvp. After all why bother to plan ganks when you can just blob folk instead ? Just another way ccp are choosing to ** the game up instigating (F)ag (W)arfare aka blobs r us, buts that's another discussion. WTF are you smoking? Its not the grid thats the core problem. Not the tank or nothing. The first and foremost problem with these ships is their use in combat in A PVP GAME! A scan resolution that is cut to 60% or even 79% and a "no delay on targeting due to sensor calibration" is worthless crap since it takes you about 45 seconds to target cruisers. Anyone still around after you actually achieve lock WANTS to be there. Its only use after the addition of a expanded fuel bay or whatever will be as the most expensive covert hauler in the universe. THats the "niche" you are talking about. And what is this crap about people who are pro-blob being the whiners. The ship has no functionality solo except in rare situations where you catch a weak ship alone and far away from help. Its only chance to not go BOOM is to be part of the blob and you are talking about expanding its fuel bay or reduce consumption to make this its viable role. Trust me. I am solo and I would LOVE to be able to take that baby for a spin. But at an uninsured half billion before fittings I would do better to buy lint and wait for the fun to role in. Watch that barrel it has monkeys... yeah. The ONLY one of them that has a chance of being worth damn is the Caldari cause of its ecm bonus. The rest lack tank, lack targeting ability and have reduced firepower. Please, blah blah all you want they are a PVP ship in a PVP game that lack the ability to realistically engage in PVP. Your "ideas" of simple fixes are simply your need for a covert hauler and nothing more. --------------------------------------------- "There have always been ghosts in the machine . . . random segments of code that have grouped together to form unexpected protocols. "
Deva Blackfire D00M.	Posted - 2008.07.14 07:56:00 - [23] Originally by: Jita Dancer Edited by: Jita Dancer on 13/07/2008 16:12:43 SK Rooster of NOTR flies one - I know, he killed my Astarte with his Sin, after neuting my tank dry in seconds his drones whacked me so hard my teeth were ringing. They are viable, just expensive and fragile. Killing command ship which is cap-depenant using all out neut ship is nothing to be too prout of tbh. Any other neut ship (even neut rokh with torps...) would do the same.
cianide pro	Posted - 2008.07.14 08:19:00 - [24] Originally by: White Ronin The ONLY one of them that has a chance of being worth damn is the Caldari cause of its ecm bonus. The rest lack tank, lack targeting ability and have reduced firepower. . Ecm needs fast locks to be effective so its better to use a falcon as its better at this job and also cheaper. The range of the widows jamming aint that good either here also a falcon does the job better. I think the black ops fail complete in their role due the lousy lock time with cloak fitted and the fuel issues already mentioned many times. There is nothing other ships ingame cant do better and cheaper so this class is a failure sofar.
Crellion Art of War	Posted - 2008.07.14 09:52:00 - [25] Originally by: Jita Dancer Edited by: Jita Dancer on 13/07/2008 16:12:43 SK Rooster of NOTR flies one - I know, he killed my Astarte with his Sin, after neuting my tank dry in seconds his drones whacked me so hard my teeth were ringing. They are viable, just expensive and fragile. Go to Syndicate and pick a scrap with him if you think they are weak - he gives free lessons in losing your ship... If they got SK to leave his Eagle they must be good :D Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim.
Rajere No Trademark The OSS	Posted - 2008.07.15 02:54:00 - [26] Quote: Originally by: Jita Dancer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Edited by: Jita Dancer on 13/07/2008 16:12:43 SK Rooster of NOTR flies one - I know, he killed my Astarte with his Sin, after neuting my tank dry in seconds his drones whacked me so hard my teeth were ringing. They are viable, just expensive and fragile. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Killing command ship which is cap-depenant using all out neut ship is nothing to be too prout of tbh. Any other neut ship (even neut rokh with torps...) would do the same. http://storietime.com/gsy/killboard/?a=kill_related&kll_id=20620 suicide cyno-cheetah, killed a Nighthawk and an Astarte at the same time.... And yeah, gets him out of his Moa. Wait he kills ravens with his Moa. NOTR How to Fail at Eve
Pesht	Posted - 2008.07.16 07:49:00 - [27] Show me a ship with ecm bonuses that can do 800 dps and maybe then you can say all black ops are useless.
Waxau Unus - Vir Exercitus	Posted - 2008.07.16 10:55:00 - [28] Originally by: Pesht Show me a ship with ecm bonuses that can do 800 dps and maybe then you can say all black ops are useless. Yeah - 800 dps if its close range with torps, uses all its lows for BCU, with a crap jamming strength, no tank, takes 20 seconds to lock a BS, and oh. That was it. Jump drive/bridge is useless for any form of NORMAL, NON-******ED use.
Dr Fighter	Posted - 2008.07.16 11:04:00 - [29] the best use for them as they are, is a surprise sniper and even then only in certain and limited situation. the Sin and redeemer able sit at 50kms and unleash around 600-800 dps (guns + sentry drone IIs) on a bs seconds after decloaking
Chalice Malice	Posted - 2008.07.16 21:57:00 - [30] Originally by: Rajere Quote: Originally by: Jita Dancer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Edited by: Jita Dancer on 13/07/2008 16:12:43 SK Rooster of NOTR flies one - I know, he killed my Astarte with his Sin, after neuting my tank dry in seconds his drones whacked me so hard my teeth were ringing. They are viable, just expensive and fragile. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Killing command ship which is cap-depenant using all out neut ship is nothing to be too prout of tbh. Any other neut ship (even neut rokh with torps...) would do the same. http://storietime.com/gsy/killboard/?a=kill_related&kll_id=20620 suicide cyno-cheetah, killed a Nighthawk and an Astarte at the same time.... And yeah, gets him out of his Moa. Wait he kills ravens with his Moa. We killed the raven... humpf =( Tyf

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