Originally by: Treelox

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The buring question, which you most likely wont answer, what was the issue, being discussed, that broke the camels back?

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Originally by: HawkBlade

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Originally by: Treelox

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The buring question, which you most likely wont answer, what was the issue, being discussed, that broke the camels back?

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But I think you want me to violate a trust and drop a drama bomb.

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Originally by: HawkBlade

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Going forward I expect my life to become more stress free when I no longer have to worry about the proper handling and management of funds belonging to so many people.

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Originally by: Kwint Sommer

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I wasn't aware things were getting so contentious over at EBANK. I think we can all agree that we don't want drama bombs but I would like to know what issue caused this much grief.

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Originally by: Kwint Sommer

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I'm sorry to hear you're leaving. I may have thought you a tad blunt at times but teams need a measure of that and EBANK shall be the poorer with you gone.

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Originally by: Kwint Sommer

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I wasn't aware things were getting so contentious over at EBANK. I think we can all agree that we don't want drama bombs but I would like to know what issue caused this much grief.

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Originally by: Ambo

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From a purely capitalist point of view, what I want to know is: Is there cause for me to worry about funds in my ebank account/bonds or was this more a difference of opinion/philosophy?

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Originally by: Ambo

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Well it's a shame to see anyone leave the e-bank team becuase it seems to me that it really has been a team effort to get it where it is today.

From a purely capitalist point of view, what I want to know is: Is there cause for me to worry about funds in my ebank account/bonds or was this more a difference of opinion/philosophy?

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Originally by: Mr Horizontal

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EBANK's Board Discussions make MD look like a kindergarten playground in terms of drama and depth and breadth of discussion.

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Originally by: EBANK Ricdic

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Horizontal speaks the truth. There is plenty of drama internally at just about any interval.

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Originally by: Astorothe

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Why are you posting as HawkBlade?

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Originally by: Ray McCormack

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Originally by: Mr Horizontal

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EBANK's Board Discussions make MD look like a kindergarten playground in terms of drama and depth and breadth of discussion.

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I fail to see how someone with your obvious intelligence doesn't understand how their comments are alienating their organisation.

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Originally by: EBANK Ricdic

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I can say however that there is no reason for customers to be concerned, their funds are not in any form of jeopardy. If this were the case I believe it would have been mentioned by Shar. The biggest concern customers should have is that we are losing an integral member of the team

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Originally by: YouGotRipped

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Edited by: YouGotRipped on 15/07/2008 09:27:14

Originally by: EBANK Ricdic

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I can say however that there is no reason for customers to be concerned, their funds are not in any form of jeopardy. If this were the case I believe it would have been mentioned by Shar. The biggest concern customers should have is that we are losing an integral member of the team

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I'll tell you exactly what the remainder members are thinking:
"Don't let me be the last to scam!"
It is inevitable.

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Originally by: HawkBlade

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My money is not in eBank anymore.

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Originally by: Ray McCormack

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Originally by: HawkBlade

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My money is not in eBank anymore.

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Divulge. I'd say you had an obligation to reveal any reasons for your resignation unless they were of a personal nature. If you feel eBank is no longer adhering to its principles, or cannot effectively continue, it's best you divulge that now.

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Originally by: YouGotRipped

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Edited by: YouGotRipped on 15/07/2008 12:44:54

What surprised me the most was that neither Hexxx nor Ricdic seem to care or attempt to sway Shar's decision.

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Originally by: SentryRaven

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Originally by: YouGotRipped

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Edited by: YouGotRipped on 15/07/2008 12:44:54

What surprised me the most was that neither Hexxx nor Ricdic seem to care or attempt to sway Shar's decision.

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You seriously believe that would happen on EVE-O?

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Originally by: EBANK Ricdic

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Sad to see you go Shar, but good luck in the future.

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Originally by: HawkBlade

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So, I have to decide on breaking my word and disclosing in specific the reason(s) why I left or do I let my silence be taken as proof of facts that I do not believe anymore.

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Originally by: Imperius Blackheart

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Hmm as a generally satisfied Ebank customer I would ask for the directorate to explain what was behind the disagreement was that caused this.

Disagreements are good and healthy as I see it, to a point. However a board member leaving and taking all his funds with him (not showing continued faith or trust) is concerning, especially when so public. Considering he is in a much better position to make informed decisions than the rest of your customers people feeling slightly insecure is natural..

IÆd encourage you to at least come forward with an official statement regarding what the issue of contention was, you donÆt even have to be terribly specific but at least let us know how serious/what it was about.

An organisation with no regulation and based purely on trust like Ebank is hard for some to trust at all, and yet several of us do, and want to continue doing so.

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Originally by: Kwint Sommer

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I was getting a little worried but Hexxx's response went a ways toward allaying my concerns. I await that public statement.

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Originally by: Astorothe

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Ah rgr. Shame to see you go Shar. I reckon you would have been keeping the bastards honest!

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Originally by: YouGotRipped

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Edited by: YouGotRipped on 15/07/2008 18:03:43

Originally by: Kwint Sommer

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I was getting a little worried but Hexxx's response went a ways toward allaying my concerns. I await that public statement.

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"Absolutely!"
In fact from now on Ebank can lose as many key members as Ricdic desires, as long as it releases a public statement and has enough liquidities to cope with the subsequent wave of withdrawals prompted by utter disgust if not pertinent concern for one's own isk.
With such level of competence I am surprised this "enterprise" is still afloat.

Originally by: Astorothe

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Ah rgr. Shame to see you go Shar. I reckon you would have been keeping the bastards honest!

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This says it all.

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Originally by: Kwint Sommer

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With such quality of posts I'm surprised you haven't ruined your reputation and been banned for trolling. Oh wait.

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Originally by: HawkBlade

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Here is the statement I had prepared:

LVV hit the nail on the head. Mis-communication and not enough team spirit.

My analysis, the board of directors is in an awkward position. They've placed Ricdic in an awkward position and how he's adapted to it has placed the board in an awkward position. Given this combination of factors, and the personalities involved, there is little board oversight over Ricdic's actions.

This is the fault of the board, the majority, as they've been far too inactive, too quiet, and basically uninvolved far too much. Ricdic has come to develop the habit of not seeking the board's counsel or reporting to the board because of that. However this has caused some serious events to take place.

Now, imho, the board has no ability to exercise any authority over Ricdic's actions. Whether it is from apathy, fear, or collusion I really don't know. All I do know is that the board almost barely knows what is going on except for after something has be done.

For my own sake, I tend to be a "wtf" kind of person. I'll see something, find out something, or be told something and I'm like "wtf?" Ricdic, himself, can sometimes be impetuous, defensive, and occasionally falls for his own hype. This means that the sparks between him and myself can be quite pronounced. We are very alike so we tend to slam our heads together quite hard.

But, to the question at hand, Ric believes that I'm resigning because of the nature of someone he recently hired to be part of eBank. I'm resigning because when I asked for accountability I was told to "keep in my place". I resigned because when I told Ricdic to not think to high of himself, that he was only first amongst equals, his replay was "Yeh, ok. Sure."

Thus I found myself totally in a position where the person with their hands on the incoming funds, a person who recently spent 175 billion without asking permission, pointedly looked me in the face and said, "And what can you do about it?"

The answer was nothing but resign.

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Originally by: HawkBlade

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Originally by: Kwint Sommer

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With such quality of posts I'm surprised you haven't ruined your reputation and been banned for trolling. Oh wait.

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What is sad is that his original post was very very good. If he could've left it unedited it would've been a damned powerful statement. I was immensely surprised at the insightful-ness and brevity of the original.

That's the sad thing though that he doesn't yet understand. Leave your posts unedited mate and you might get some credibility and >gasps< respect. The constant editing ....

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Originally by: HawkBlade

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I'm resigning because when I asked for accountability I was told to "keep in my place". I resigned because when I told Ricdic to not think to high of himself, that he was only first amongst equals, his replay was "Yeh, ok. Sure."

Thus I found myself totally in a position where the person with their hands on the incoming funds, a person who recently spent 175 billion without asking permission, pointedly looked me in the face and said, "And what can you do about it?"

The answer was nothing but resign.

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Originally by: Hexxx

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I would point to Proton Power as an example of someone who is helping us achieve that goal (this is our official announcement that PP has joined EBANK by the way ).

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Originally by: Ray McCormack

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Recently I've discovered a few details that make me honestly believe eBank is in no position to be expanding to the levels it is. There are not enough checks and procedures in place, and far too much reliance is placed on Ricdic's integrity and ability. Neither of which I have faith in, nor should I or anyone else be required to.

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Originally by: Hexxx

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The Board is not ignoring Shar's resignation or his opinion.

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Originally by: Ray McCormack

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For an entity that has designs on being a controlling force in the market, it's wholly lacking in internal infrastructure.

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Originally by: Athre

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Ebank can move forward and it is my hope that the revised Roles and Responsibilities go a long way for not only setting expectations of the board but for all Ebank employees.

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Quote:

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Ricdic (about starting ebank, July 2007): Think of it as a miniature EIB done right. I cannot see this getting anywhere near 700b any time in the future tbh.

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Quote:

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Ricdic (about starting ebank, July 2007): Think of it as a miniature EIB done right. I cannot see this getting anywhere near 700b any time in the future tbh.

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Originally by: CCP Wrangler

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No

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Originally by: YouGotRipped

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Originally by: Hexxx

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The Board is not ignoring Shar's resignation or his opinion.

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Does that mean you'll have Shar back and see to it that such things never happen again?
I mean obviously you guys have some teamwork issues to solve but it's nothing the Board can't overcome. Right?

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Originally by: Hexxx

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Originally by: YouGotRipped

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Originally by: Hexxx

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The Board is not ignoring Shar's resignation or his opinion.

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Does that mean you'll have Shar back and see to it that such things never happen again?
I mean obviously you guys have some teamwork issues to solve but it's nothing the Board can't overcome. Right?

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I'm not going to promise that this is the last disagreement between Board members...we have them all the time. They normally get resolved or we work things out or we come to an agreement. Rarely do people resign over them

I do believe that for all the disagreements and debates, the Board generally overcomes them all.

I've been talking to some of our guys about opening EBANK up to a completely indepedent 3rd party audit. I'll be raising it before the Board as well. I can't promise it'll happen, but I will bring it to the Board for discussion.

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Originally by: cosmoray

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I am surprised no one has asked the big question hanging out there.

What did Ricdic/EBank spend 175B ISk on?

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Originally by: jongalt

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now there is no watchdog.

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Quote:

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Ricdic (about starting ebank, July 2007): Think of it as a miniature EIB done right. I cannot see this getting anywhere near 700b any time in the future tbh.

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Originally by: Mazzarins Demise

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Originally by: cosmoray

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I am surprised no one has asked the big question hanging out there.

What did Ricdic/EBank spend 175B ISk on?

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I can scarcely imagine what costs 175B in this game. I can barely reach 1 billion .

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Quote:

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3. The minimum Dividends will be 3.5%. If I don't hit this amount I will take my isk and make it this amount. The only exception to this is the June 1st Dividend. Based on what I am doing, I am not sure how that dividend is going to turn out.

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Originally by: Martosh Toma

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The IPO

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Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155

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Originally by: jongalt

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now there is no watchdog.

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OK, I guess I'll make a post now. I know it is a big deal that shar is leaving, and I can undertsand why. I have nothing but the utmost respect for him and the things he says/does. So much so that the last time he was in the hospital and couldn't get in Eve I had a laptop boxed up to send to him before I found out that he was doing ok and headed home.

BUT, this does not make the rest of the board uselss. They aren't all a bunch of mindless idiots. Just to use Hexxx as an example, do you really think the "Big Bad mind controlling" Ricdic could change Hexxx's integrity and ideals? I'd bet my RL bank account that he couldn't.

There was a disagreement on process and procedure not on whether to scam or not. Something most of you are missing here is not whether you should pull your isk out for fear that it won't be here tomorrow but instead what the problems were and are they being addressed and is there some way to verify that they are being/need to be addressed.

When things like this happen they generally signify one thing, change. I believe change is a good and necessary thing so long as there is leadership in place to change in a positive way. Shar NEEDS to leave ebank so they can use this as a time for change and improvement and also for his health. That is my belief on this issue. Personally, I will be depositing an extra 10b into my sweep account as soon as I am home as a show of the faith I have in this institution and its leadership.

This isn't the end of the world guys, it is a chance to take a small step back and look at the operation as a whole and then to make the necessary changes so that Ebank can move forward with continued success.

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Originally by: HawkBlade

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And could you please ask Ricdic to stop attacking Athre, in game, over my actions?

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Originally by: HawkBlade

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Originally by: cosmoray

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2. There should be rules about authorized spending levels by bank employees. i.e. It is right for the CEO to be able to use the bank finances on investments up to a LIMIT. When the total level of investments or a single investment reaches that level the CEO should require board approval.

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I should clarify, there are (or were) rules regarding such matters. However those who make the rules aren't always in a position to enforce those rules. Hexxx does provide a measure of control over Ricdic, like AC pointed out, but Hexxx also has a personal life and when Hexxx ain't around (which is quite often) Ric acts the buffoon.

And yes, I'm going to outright say it.

Kwint is right, I think it unlikely that Ric will just take the money. However I don't think any one on the board knows what Ric will do if the board asked him to step down. He's quite full of his "power" and his "prestige". Otherwise he wouldn't have specifically told the board to "stay in their place" over matters they felt needed to be addressed.

(Also notice how he keeps posting with "Ebank Ricdic" - That's branding peeps. Not advertising Ebank, it is advertising that Ebank belongs to Ricdic.)

Ray hit the nail on the head. Ric has exceeded his abilities by aligning himself with others more competent than he. This is smart of course. The problem is that he thinks the ongoing successes is on account of him and not the others around him. Worry about the day when Ric goes and does something without someone watching over him.

I have no confidence in eBank from the behaviors of the CEO, the chairman, and the board. Hexxx simply doesn't have the time to ensure compliance, most of the other board members have no way of insisting on compliance, and Ric has already demonstrated (to the cost of two directors now) that he will do whatever he thinks regardless of what others say.

Point in fact: Ric said as loan officer he could, and would, write himself a loan as he knew he was good for it. These boards lit up like a bonfire from the such ego and hubris. So did we the board. So instead of giving himself a 100 billion isk loan without permission... he went and give himself a 175 billion isk loan without permission.

That's just a breach of faith, trust, and ethics. Virtual boardroom or real life it's wrong.

As I was resigning in disgust the board then went about retroactively approving that loan and then started debating about letting Ric be able to spend, at his discretion, 33% of the banks total deposits.

I have to tell you, with all of my integrity, that eBank is doomed to fail because there is no oversight over the person spending the money and I honestly believe that until eBank removes Ric's mouth of the isk tit... there will never be any effective oversight.

In the words of one director, "Ric has often run eBank as his own personal fiefdom. We don't need someone going out and telling the public this truth." [paraphrase]

Ironic that when Ricdic told me to keep in my place he reminded me what my place was. It was to resign and inform the public that the product they've bought is no longer true.

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Originally by: HawkBlade

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Originally by: Hexxx

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That pretty much nails it.

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And at this point, I am calling you a liar sir.

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Originally by: HawkBlade

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Point in fact: Ric said as loan officer he could, and would, write himself a loan as he knew he was good for it. These boards lit up like a bonfire from the such ego and hubris. So did we the board. So instead of giving himself a 100 billion isk loan without permission... he went and give himself a 175 billion isk loan without permission.

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Originally by: Xelios Xarxes

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I've seen this coming for a while, and Ricdic is the sole reason I wouldn't trust my ISK with Ebank. When people who're that arrogant have had control over large amounts of money in the past, we all know what happened in the end. I support your decision of resigning, especially after seeing the other members of EBank basically saying "cya" instead of daring to go against King Ricdic. I wish you the best and congratulate you on being the only one who isn't a sheep. Everyone here has a lot of respect for you.

EBank is on its way to becoming a totalitarian monarchy & Ricdic will have the last laugh. << Saved for an "I told you so." to come at a later date.

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Originally by: Robacz

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Originally by: HawkBlade

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Point in fact: Ric said as loan officer he could, and would, write himself a loan as he knew he was good for it. These boards lit up like a bonfire from the such ego and hubris. So did we the board. So instead of giving himself a 100 billion isk loan without permission... he went and give himself a 175 billion isk loan without permission.

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Heh, being in charge of loans approvals have some advantages it seems. I wonder what kind of project requires such amount of ISK.

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Originally by: Martosh Toma

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Soory but the news that PP is joining you does not make me that happy.
I do not question his Integrety but I am not too happy with the results of his latest public investment

see http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=739299&page=1

noted the promise for 3.5%, the isk was to be sent in april, the first divident was in june (over the month may)
Total dividents over the juration of the investment was about 3%, to be fair it is still a profit but it is far short of the promised 3.5% per month.

I took the liberty of underlining the importand bit in the quote

Quote:

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3. The minimum Dividends will be 3.5%. If I don't hit this amount I will take my isk and make it this amount. The only exception to this is the June 1st Dividend. Based on what I am doing, I am not sure how that dividend is going to turn out.

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I have Decided to withdraw almost all my isk from EBank at this time.
Not because I think I will be scammed, nor do I fear getting stiffed on the agreed intrest payment.
But I am not happy with the things as they are being portrayed at this time.
I am using both options availeble to show my displeasure, posting and withdrawal.

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Originally by: Proton Power

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Originally by: Kazzac Elentria

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Originally by: Proton Power

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right before i went to sea for 3 weeks if not mistaking.

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Thats sorta the issue I'm having with the choice. You're a solid in my book PP, but if the project is involved at all.

Doesn't the board sorta see this as folly?

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All I do is advise on how to run some things, give very specific details on how to do it, when to do it, and spread sheets to back up my data. I do this from at sea without signing on.

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Originally by: Breck Maladar

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Originally by: Proton Power

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Originally by: Kazzac Elentria

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Originally by: Proton Power

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right before i went to sea for 3 weeks if not mistaking.

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Thats sorta the issue I'm having with the choice. You're a solid in my book PP, but if the project is involved at all.

Doesn't the board sorta see this as folly?

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All I do is advise on how to run some things, give very specific details on how to do it, when to do it, and spread sheets to back up my data. I do this from at sea without signing on.

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I know, but Hexx is making it seem like you are going to be taking this active role in EBANK like Ricdic.

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Originally by: Proton Power

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Originally by: Kazzac Elentria

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Originally by: Proton Power

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right before i went to sea for 3 weeks if not mistaking.

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Thats sorta the issue I'm having with the choice. You're a solid in my book PP, but if the project is involved at all.

Doesn't the board sorta see this as folly?

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All I do is advise on how to run some things, give very specific details on how to do it, when to do it, and spread sheets to back up my data. I do this from at sea without signing on.

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Originally by: Proton Power

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Originally by: Breck Maladar

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Originally by: Proton Power

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Originally by: Kazzac Elentria

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Originally by: Proton Power

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right before i went to sea for 3 weeks if not mistaking.

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Thats sorta the issue I'm having with the choice. You're a solid in my book PP, but if the project is involved at all.

Doesn't the board sorta see this as folly?

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All I do is advise on how to run some things, give very specific details on how to do it, when to do it, and spread sheets to back up my data. I do this from at sea without signing on.

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I know, but Hexx is making it seem like you are going to be taking this active role in EBANK like Ricdic.

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I have no intention of putting my ful time play into this. I just started a new corp up for FW, and have some more sea time and family time in my future. Now I am and will always post on teh ebank forums, I am a forum *****, that will never change.

I will have an active role in this corp on what to do and not what to do, I can't put in a lot of specifics due to its nature, but it takes me about 1hr a week if I wanted to actually run with it myself. Anyone even a well trained monkey could do what I am doing ingame. Its the data and intel I am giving out of game that is were i am being most utilized right now. And the Board before this started has asked the questoin what happens if i disapear. Its been answered.

If I could have done this with my IPO I would have, but it takes more isk and some help from other players (Ricdic) that you can trust to do it.

Hope this explains some.

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Originally by: Kazzac Elentria

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Originally by: Proton Power

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Originally by: Kazzac Elentria

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Originally by: Proton Power

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right before i went to sea for 3 weeks if not mistaking.

---

Thats sorta the issue I'm having with the choice. You're a solid in my book PP, but if the project is involved at all.

Doesn't the board sorta see this as folly?

---

All I do is advise on how to run some things, give very specific details on how to do it, when to do it, and spread sheets to back up my data. I do this from at sea without signing on.

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Ahhh

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Originally by: Proton Power

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Originally by: Kazzac Elentria

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Originally by: Proton Power

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Originally by: Kazzac Elentria

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Originally by: Proton Power

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right before i went to sea for 3 weeks if not mistaking.

---

Thats sorta the issue I'm having with the choice. You're a solid in my book PP, but if the project is involved at all.

Doesn't the board sorta see this as folly?

---

All I do is advise on how to run some things, give very specific details on how to do it, when to do it, and spread sheets to back up my data. I do this from at sea without signing on.

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Ahhh

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Want to correct this some before somone tries to call me out on it. right now Yes I am playing a more active role that stated above, I helped setup some stuff up, helped get the corp setup for it. Spent about 10hrs doing so, and will continue to help with the actual iname stuff when I can and have fre time to do so, but I post exact what I do, so that others can do it as well when I am gone or when i need a break.

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Originally by: Breck Maladar

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Originally by: Proton Power

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Originally by: Breck Maladar

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Originally by: Proton Power

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Originally by: Kazzac Elentria

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Originally by: Proton Power

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right before i went to sea for 3 weeks if not mistaking.

---

Thats sorta the issue I'm having with the choice. You're a solid in my book PP, but if the project is involved at all.

Doesn't the board sorta see this as folly?

---

All I do is advise on how to run some things, give very specific details on how to do it, when to do it, and spread sheets to back up my data. I do this from at sea without signing on.

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I know, but Hexx is making it seem like you are going to be taking this active role in EBANK like Ricdic.

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I have no intention of putting my ful time play into this. I just started a new corp up for FW, and have some more sea time and family time in my future. Now I am and will always post on teh ebank forums, I am a forum *****, that will never change.

I will have an active role in this corp on what to do and not what to do, I can't put in a lot of specifics due to its nature, but it takes me about 1hr a week if I wanted to actually run with it myself. Anyone even a well trained monkey could do what I am doing ingame. Its the data and intel I am giving out of game that is were i am being most utilized right now. And the Board before this started has asked the questoin what happens if i disapear. Its been answered.

If I could have done this with my IPO I would have, but it takes more isk and some help from other players (Ricdic) that you can trust to do it.

Hope this explains some.

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I know but if to make everyone feel better Ebank says some of the power will be taken from Ricdic and given to you to even things out, and you are taking on a passive role, I think then we are back to square 1, with no meaningful change.

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Originally by: Breck Maladar

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Originally by: Proton Power

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Originally by: Kazzac Elentria

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Originally by: Proton Power

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Originally by: Kazzac Elentria

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Originally by: Proton Power

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right before i went to sea for 3 weeks if not mistaking.

---

Thats sorta the issue I'm having with the choice. You're a solid in my book PP, but if the project is involved at all.

Doesn't the board sorta see this as folly?

---

All I do is advise on how to run some things, give very specific details on how to do it, when to do it, and spread sheets to back up my data. I do this from at sea without signing on.

---

Ahhh

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Want to correct this some before somone tries to call me out on it. right now Yes I am playing a more active role that stated above, I helped setup some stuff up, helped get the corp setup for it. Spent about 10hrs doing so, and will continue to help with the actual iname stuff when I can and have fre time to do so, but I post exact what I do, so that others can do it as well when I am gone or when i need a break.

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I sometimes work at the place of my employment in my freetime, but that dosen't mean I take an active role. I just think your role is trying to be misreprestented into something it isn't. Its nice your helpinh out. I'm sure your great, but you arent the fix to Ebanks problem.

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Originally by: Breck Maladar

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PP, I think you misunderstand me.

I am not arguring that your role is not valid or even that Ridic is negativley impact. I am simply stating that the role you are taking is not the fix to Ebanks problem, though you may improve other areas of the organization.

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Originally by: Proton Power

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Originally by: Breck Maladar

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PP, I think you misunderstand me.

I am not arguring that your role is not valid or even that Ridic is negativley impact. I am simply stating that the role you are taking is not the fix to Ebanks problem, though you may improve other areas of the organization.

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Correct. I dont' beleive there is a problem but if the board chooses there is one tthey will fix it i have no doubt and I will help in any manner that I can. But as you stated I am onboard to help ebank grow I guess is best term for it.

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Originally by: Breck Maladar

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No seriously, your an upstanding guy and It's a shame that your official announcement of joining EBank had to come in this thread because you will certainly be an asset!

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Originally by: SencneS

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Originally by: Breck Maladar

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No seriously, your an upstanding guy and It's a shame that your official announcement of joining EBank had to come in this thread because you will certainly be an asset!

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I want to address this particular point.

EBank get a lot of heat when threads are started in their name. A few times we where asked politely to reduce the amount of EBank threads floating around on this forum. We have to abide by some Mandates the moderators have put forth.

Although it seems like such a poor time to announce this union of Protons genius and EBank's financial backing. EBank often respects the wishes of it's associates and business partners, and to that Proton requested we not announce the joint venture until he gave the all clear.

That all clear came last night (US Timezone), before Hexxx had to pleasure to announce Proton Power's accepting into EBank, this thread started.

In compliance with Moderates wishes a single EBank thread a week I believe, this happened to be the current EBank thread running.

I extend my person sorry to Proton that we where unable to give him the announcement he deserves. A well respected and loved character shoved in the mix of internal turmoil.

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Originally by: cosmoray

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You guys at EBank still need to work on your communication skills.
*useful list of things*
There is probably not much going on here, but you have made it into a bigger drama than need be.

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Originally by: Ray McCormack

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Shar, this is something I've feared from the start, and incidentally was behind the reason for my recent request for the board to release their risk spread. I feel Ricdic is in well over his head, both on a maturity and ability level.

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Quote:

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175 B

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Originally by: HawkBlade

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Remember, I did back up a copy of the forums. Be very careful how much of a lie you wish to spin.

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Originally by: Shadarle

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*lots of good judgments as usual*

Too many people consider E-Bank to be 100% secure, which it most definitely is not. It is simply more secure than most IPO's.

It seems everyone else is willing to say there was no problem... but the seed of doubt is there right now. The only person who has the credibility to say it is not there is Shar... at least imo.

I'm a bit surprised E-Bank hasn't worked harder to keep Shar frankly. I find it hard to believe they will say they'd rather not fix any internal issues and let shar go than to fix them and keep him.

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Originally by: Proton Power

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When I closed my IPO I had zero intention of Joining Ebank, I didnt even have an account at the time, nor was I invited to do so. I think I joined Ebank what? 4 weeks ago right before i went to sea for 3 weeks if not mistaking.

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Originally by: Proton Power

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I did ask EBANK not to mention me working for EBANK until I cleared out my IPO.

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Originally by: Alex Redwidth

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Originally by: Proton Power

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When I closed my IPO I had zero intention of Joining Ebank, I didnt even have an account at the time, nor was I invited to do so. I think I joined Ebank what? 4 weeks ago right before i went to sea for 3 weeks if not mistaking.

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Later adding...

Originally by: Proton Power

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I did ask EBANK not to mention me working for EBANK until I cleared out my IPO.

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That's some awesome professional ethics displayed by yourself and EBANK. I think anyone who had ISK tied to either has a right to be rather **ssed with both sides right now.

One also wonders why, if your role is so passive, you weren't either hired as a consultant or your idea wasn't just bought outright by EBANK with you given a share.

I supposed then we'd miss out on all the lol-worthy drama.

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Originally by: jna

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Edited by: jna on 15/07/2008 21:59:25
tldr; version

1. The lone voice of reason has left EBANK.
2. EBANK is essentially Ricdic's personal fiefdom.
3. Most everyone else on the board is too pre-occupied and/or scared/useless to say "boo" when required.
4. EBANK is utterly useless at communication and could seriously do with a media course.
5. Oh, and PP is here to save everything with his own, unique brand of apology.

What did I miss?

This is genius.

EDIT: All I need now is a post from LaVista Vista and I can die happy.

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Originally by: Proton Power

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Funny how you leave out the reasons why.

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Originally by: Alex Redwidth

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I'm just awed that neither you nor EBANK's board seem to have an issue with you turning your back on your shareholders and wrapping up your IPO (apparently not even meeting your own promises), then taking a visible and associated role with EBANK

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Originally by: Proton Power

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Originally by: jna

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Edited by: jna on 15/07/2008 21:59:25
tldr; version

1. The lone voice of reason has left EBANK.
2. EBANK is essentially Ricdic's personal fiefdom.
3. Most everyone else on the board is too pre-occupied and/or scared/useless to say "boo" when required.
4. EBANK is utterly useless at communication and could seriously do with a media course.
5. Oh, and PP is here to save everything with his own, unique brand of apology.

What did I miss?

This is genius.

EDIT: All I need now is a post from LaVista Vista and I can die happy.

---

1. Yes nobody else argues or speaks up at all. What will Ebank do now.
2. Actually Ricdic has spent every Ebank Isk on spirits and slaves. I dont even know how we hande withdrawls anymore.
3. Yep to scared here.
4. Working on communicatoin, but some of that was false as said by me, hexx, and I think 1 or 2 others.
5. I never appologized for joining Ebank and never will. I will appologize for my IPO failing, but I also did the best I could with my situation. And I posted multiple times I am in the US Navy and things come up beyond my control, multiple times. ALL INVESTORS new this.

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Originally by: cosmoray

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I wish EBank directors would learn not to argue or flame in official EBank threads. It makes the issue much worse.

You even point out about communication issues above. You guys need to stop all posting with your opinions and just have one voice.

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Originally by: Proton Power

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Originally by: jna

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Edited by: jna on 15/07/2008 21:59:25
tldr; version

1. The lone voice of reason has left EBANK.
2. EBANK is essentially Ricdic's personal fiefdom.
3. Most everyone else on the board is too pre-occupied and/or scared/useless to say "boo" when required.
4. EBANK is utterly useless at communication and could seriously do with a media course.
5. Oh, and PP is here to save everything with his own, unique brand of apology.

What did I miss?

This is genius.

EDIT: All I need now is a post from LaVista Vista and I can die happy.

---

1. Yes nobody else argues or speaks up at all. What will Ebank do now.
2. Actually Ricdic has spent every Ebank Isk on spirits and slaves. I dont even know how we hande withdrawls anymore.
3. Yep to scared here.
4. Working on communicatoin, but some of that was false as said by me, hexx, and I think 1 or 2 others.
5. I never appologized for joining Ebank and never will. I will appologize for my IPO failing, but I also did the best I could with my situation. And I posted multiple times I am in the US Navy and things come up beyond my control, multiple times. ALL INVESTORS new this.

---

Originally by: Alex Redwidth

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Originally by: Proton Power

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Funny how you leave out the reasons why.

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To mangle the Misters Python, 'the reasons why don't enter into it'.

I'm just awed that neither you nor EBANK's board seem to have an issue with you turning your back on your shareholders and wrapping up your IPO (apparently not even meeting your own promises), then taking a visible and associated role with EBANK and being trusted with a large degree of influence in a 175B project.

Like I said, your previous IPO shareholders and EBANK investors have every right to be very upset and angry with both you and EBANK.

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Originally by: Kwint Sommer

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Originally by: Alex Redwidth

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Originally by: Proton Power

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Funny how you leave out the reasons why.

---

To mangle the Misters Python, 'the reasons why don't enter into it'.

I'm just awed that neither you nor EBANK's board seem to have an issue with you turning your back on your shareholders and wrapping up your IPO (apparently not even meeting your own promises), then taking a visible and associated role with EBANK and being trusted with a large degree of influence in a 175B project.

Like I said, your previous IPO shareholders and EBANK investors have every right to be very upset and angry with both you and EBANK.

---

You're making this out to be a lot worse than it is. One of his businesses didn't pan out but he paid back everyone's investment plus some interest. He didn't meet the promised interest rate but it's not like he failed to live up to the return rate while making money himself, he lost a fair bit of ISK to make sure everyone got paid back in a timely fashion. Not every investment goes well, at least he was honest about it and took a pretty decent personal hit to make things right by his investors. Whatever his failings as a CEO, he does have a lot of experience and contacts and as such his advise could be invaluable. It's not like EBANK gave him 175B, said "good luck" and left him to it. He's essentially consulting for them and I don't think that's a big deal. You're really being a drama queen about this.

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Originally by: cosmoray

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Originally by: Proton Power

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Originally by: jna

---

Edited by: jna on 15/07/2008 21:59:25
tldr; version

1. The lone voice of reason has left EBANK.
2. EBANK is essentially Ricdic's personal fiefdom.
3. Most everyone else on the board is too pre-occupied and/or scared/useless to say "boo" when required.
4. EBANK is utterly useless at communication and could seriously do with a media course.
5. Oh, and PP is here to save everything with his own, unique brand of apology.

What did I miss?

This is genius.

EDIT: All I need now is a post from LaVista Vista and I can die happy.

---

1. Yes nobody else argues or speaks up at all. What will Ebank do now.
2. Actually Ricdic has spent every Ebank Isk on spirits and slaves. I dont even know how we hande withdrawls anymore.
3. Yep to scared here.
4. Working on communicatoin, but some of that was false as said by me, hexx, and I think 1 or 2 others.
5. I never appologized for joining Ebank and never will. I will appologize for my IPO failing, but I also did the best I could with my situation. And I posted multiple times I am in the US Navy and things come up beyond my control, multiple times. ALL INVESTORS new this.

---

I wish EBank directors would learn not to argue or flame in official EBank threads. It makes the issue much worse.

You even point out about communication issues above. You guys need to stop all posting with your opinions and just have one voice.

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Originally by: HawkBlade

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I regret my words about saying Hexxx's statement an orchestrated lie. That was, and is, way too strong a statement. And to be honest there is no evil nor malintent about Ricdic either.

In the matter of the 175b, there was a project initiated to generate side revenue which included Proton. Ricdic was handling affairs and there was a lot of documentation on possible practices and due payback to eBank for this loan/venture. This project was not, I repeat, not authorized to expend anywhere near as much isk as it did. The fact that it did came out to me when Ric was talking about matters on MSN. (Which I don't really like private side bar conversations going on where everyone is not privy to them.)

I complained about this state of affairs and the original thread was edited and updated to reflect the current state of affairs. (Funny thing happens at the forum, directors get to edit without any edit notations!)

So in this case reporting is like patriotism and treason, all about dates. Which came first, the project. Then came the surprise of how much was spent. Later comes reporting and permitting.

Now, to conclude my specific complaint and why I left; Ricdic sees himself as better, more privileged, and unaccountable to the board. He has said as much quite directly to the board. He's also said as much to a particular staff member as well though I fear that staff member is afraid to confirm that. If Ricdic could he'd do away with a number of people on the board because of "inactivity". This doesn't mean Ric is venal or evil.

We all know the major players here and everyone is acting exactly the way we all know them. No one is out of tune in this drama before you.

- Hexxx is doing damage control by pushing forth what is positive and salvageable of eBank.

- I am speaking up because things need to be said and I fear no consequences. (Well I probably won't get my 1.5 billion pay that was determined but, meh, not ever having seen one isk from eBank it is no great loss.)

- Ric is accused of arrogance, impetuousness, and some irresponsibility.

Anyone out of character yet?

When 2+2=4 confirmed by 4/16=4 and 3*9-23=4... The other side of this is that not everything is black and white. Only results. So, my lack of confidence does not come from any doubt of the good intentions of those still involved in eBank.

I only look at the resulting outcome of these many months and I find no reason to express any confidence in the institution as it currently stands.

It is not grudge, it is simply judgment.

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Originally by: Kwint Sommer

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You're really being a drama queen about this.
You're making this out to be a lot worse than it is.

One of his businesses didn't pan out
He didn't meet the promised interest rate
he failed to live up to the return rate
he lost a fair bit of ISK
...his failings as a CEO
He's essentially consulting for them

I don't think that's a big deal.

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Originally by: Shar Tegral

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(Funny thing happens at the forum, directors get to edit without any edit notations!)

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Originally by: Alex Redwidth

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Originally by: Kwint Sommer

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You're really being a drama queen about this.
You're making this out to be a lot worse than it is.

One of his businesses didn't pan out
He didn't meet the promised interest rate
he failed to live up to the return rate
he lost a fair bit of ISK
...his failings as a CEO
He's essentially consulting for them

I don't think that's a big deal.

---

Now take that failed investment, double it and then some, then have him lining up the consultancy job while his finishing up the shafting of his original shareholders.

How's that not grossly negligent to the original shareholders and an a dangerous example of the lack of ethics of the individual involved?

So how long until Goons can apply to work at EBANK?

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Originally by: Alex Redwidth

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Originally by: Kwint Sommer

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You're really being a drama queen about this.
You're making this out to be a lot worse than it is.

One of his businesses didn't pan out
He didn't meet the promised interest rate
he failed to live up to the return rate
he lost a fair bit of ISK
...his failings as a CEO
He's essentially consulting for them

I don't think that's a big deal.

---

Now take that failed investment, double it and then some, then have him lining up the consultancy job while his finishing up the shafting of his original shareholders.

How's that not grossly negligent to the original shareholders and an a dangerous example of the lack of ethics of the individual involved?

So how long until Goons can apply to work at EBANK?

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Originally by: HawkBlade

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Originally by: Proton Power

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To me it looks like you just want to hurt Ebank now rather than just leave quietly, which is your choice I guess, just a bad one IMO just like you feel some things others due are bad choices.

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Firstly, while I respect you yourself you really have little worthwhile knowledge on these matters of leaving quietly.

For instance, just a couple of months ago I approached Hexxx about my leaving quietly. I was quite fed up of Ric then and suggested we come up with a nice nifty little press release and give me my golden parachute. Hexxx reassured me that I was very valuable to eBank and needed, that things would improve.

Let us consider that when McRuder left, by the Mac I fought for you to get compensated for you time along with everyone else - it passed so you should at least get something for you efforts, finally, the situation was identical. Ricdic made some bad choices and went haranguing at the board. I went to leave, Mac did leave, but Hexxx convinced me things would improve.

And finally, many people have deposited funds into eBank based on my good say so. I do not have a responsibility to the public, I've been quite vocal on that score, but I do have a responsibility to the depositors of eBank. They put their trust in me, along with the rest of the guys, and I have an unavoidable obligation to say what I feel is true, not what is ideal for eBank.

I don't owe eBank anything.
I owe the depositors everything.
That includes unpleasant truths if need be.

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Originally by: Nido Gentz

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acknowledge the facts of the situation

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Originally by: Pasha Cracken

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Look, Im new around here, only posted a few times, and no one really knows me.


But look at the bright side, you did things that many of us other strive to do and experience, so my hat is off to you sir, no matter what you choose.

-Josh
CEO eve-webspace.com

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Originally by: Jacob Mei

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So when can we expect to see some sort of offical response from Ebank? Clearly there is some sort of issue that caused shar to leave, what, if anything, is going to be done about it?

Right now Im holding onto the isk that I had in Ebank, wanting to put it back in the savings account, but im not going to until I hear something that explains whats going on with how Ebank is lead and what is going to be done to prevent major issues.

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Quote:

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Ricdic (about starting ebank, July 2007): Think of it as a miniature EIB done right. I cannot see this getting anywhere near 700b any time in the future tbh.

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Originally by: Jacob Mei

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So when can we expect to see some sort of offical response from Ebank? Clearly there is some sort of issue that caused shar to leave, what, if anything, is going to be done about it?

Right now Im holding onto the isk that I had in Ebank, wanting to put it back in the savings account, but im not going to until I hear something that explains whats going on with how Ebank is lead and what is going to be done to prevent major issues.

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Originally by: Alex Redwidth

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So how long until Goons can apply to work at EBANK?

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Originally by: Roguehalo

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Hmm still no mention of the 175 billion and what was done with it

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Quote:

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Ricdic (about starting ebank, July 2007): Think of it as a miniature EIB done right. I cannot see this getting anywhere near 700b any time in the future tbh.

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Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155

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Originally by: Roguehalo

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Hmm still no mention of the 175 billion and what was done with it

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I'm going to go ahead and attempt to answer this based on information found in this thread.

The 175bill is actually 125bill (per PP's posting). It was for several items with which ebank's operations side would use to make money, much the same way banks IRL make investments and have divisions beneath a holding company that might be involved in other areas besides. Let me give you an example scenario that may better explain it(This is an EXAMPLE and not necessarily how ebank is structured).

Holding company owns
1. the bank
2. another business that is basically unrelated to banking
3. yet another business that may or may not be unrelated to banking

The bank does what banks do, take deposits and give loans (yes this is a very general definition). Business 2 and 3 making money for the "holding company" or in our situation, ebank. Tom, an employee of the bank needs 125billion because he has spotted an area of business that can make the bank some money by purchasing all the shuttles in all of Eve.
/end scenario

Basically, you aren't going to get specific details on what the money was used for because that could potentialy affect the profits of the investment. Just as a lot of banks won't tell you what they invest your money in the same applies here. There is no 175billion dollar shuttle that was purchased and tomorrow you will get up from bed and do whatever it is you had planned prior to reading this thread.

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Originally by: Proton Power

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1. Yes nobody else argues or speaks up at all. What will Ebank do now.
2. Actually Ricdic has spent every Ebank Isk on spirits and slaves. I dont even know how we hande withdrawls anymore.
3. Yep to scared here.
4. Working on communicatoin, but some of that was false as said by me, hexx, and I think 1 or 2 others.
5. I never appologized for joining Ebank and never will. I will appologize for my IPO failing, but I also did the best I could with my situation. And I posted multiple times I am in the US Navy and things come up beyond my control, multiple times. ALL INVESTORS new this.

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Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155

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Originally by: Roguehalo

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Hmm still no mention of the 175 billion and what was done with it

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I'm going to go ahead and attempt to answer this based on information found in this thread.

The 175bill is actually 125bill (per PP's posting). It was for several items with which ebank's operations side would use to make money, much the same way banks IRL make investments and have divisions beneath a holding company that might be involved in other areas besides. Let me give you an example scenario that may better explain it(This is an EXAMPLE and not necessarily how ebank is structured).

Holding company owns
1. the bank
2. another business that is basically unrelated to banking
3. yet another business that may or may not be unrelated to banking

The bank does what banks do, take deposits and give loans (yes this is a very general definition). Business 2 and 3 making money for the "holding company" or in our situation, ebank. Tom, an employee of the bank needs 125billion because he has spotted an area of business that can make the bank some money by purchasing all the shuttles in all of Eve.
/end scenario

Basically, you aren't going to get specific details on what the money was used for because that could potentialy affect the profits of the investment. Just as a lot of banks won't tell you what they invest your money in the same applies here. There is no 175billion dollar shuttle that was purchased and tomorrow you will get up from bed and do whatever it is you had planned prior to reading this thread.

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Originally by: Kazzac Elentria

...guys you need to just pull the reigns in, shut the hell up and play internal damage control now.[/quote

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After 5 pages? I doubt it. It has the momentum of a freight train. It's too late to stop now!

Originally by: Ruby stardust

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As long as this money is not used for market mulipulation.

I only say that because in the last few weeks isogen, megacyte, morphite and melted capacitors have all been mulipulated using a lot of isk. Neither one has ever been multipulated to any large degree in the past.

Market mulipulation isn't something a bank should be involved in. Even via a third party. Please state that this is not the case outright. Thank you.

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Originally by: Vakhn

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In support of the OP, the whole point of a bank is to provide a relatively risk free return, by having a diverse and conservative investment strategy.

Using 25-33% of investors assets for one project, under the control of one person, appears to be the antithesis of that concept. Investors and potential investors have a right to know that what was marketed as a bank is substantially a personal bond offering to Ricdic. I dont know if he's a good or bad investment, but I do know I dont want to trust him with 25%+ of my savings.

---

Quote:

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Ricdic (about starting ebank, July 2007): Think of it as a miniature EIB done right. I cannot see this getting anywhere near 700b any time in the future tbh.

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Originally by: CornerStoner

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Originally by: Kazzac Elentria

...guys you need to just pull the reigns in, shut the hell up and play internal damage control now.[/quote

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After 5 pages? I doubt it. It has the momentum of a freight train. It's too late to stop now!

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Originally by: kosh

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The avalanche has already started... it is too late for the Pebbles to vote

---

The beginning was the end (of everything)
The Ape regards his tail, (he's stuck on it)
Repeats until he fails..half a goon and half a god.. a man's not made of steel...

Originally by: Ruby stardust

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So Ebank/Ricdic isn't manipulating vanilla minerals? Yes/no?

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Originally by: Nissan Sentra

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Ok, PP just started a lrg IPO which crashed and burned fast.

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Originally by: Nissan Sentra

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I hate to think that this new investment Ebank has of 200 Million is not the same idea base as that IPO.

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Originally by: Nissan Sentra

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Ricdic has not posted as of yet besides one post. Man calls me out I tend to have the balls to man up. Thats me though.

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Originally by: Nissan Sentra

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No one on the Ebank side seems to be taking this current problem serious. Its like, well we have your isk so..... Know what I mean? What is the % of bank funds does Ricdic hold?

---

Quote:

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Ricdic (about starting ebank, July 2007): Think of it as a miniature EIB done right. I cannot see this getting anywhere near 700b any time in the future tbh.

---

Originally by: Shadarle

---

To anyone saying Shar was wrong to go public with some of this, I think those people need to understand that sometimes being faithful to a person or an organization is less important than doing what is right.

I absolutely hate this idea lately that it is better to be loyal than it is to be a good person. In EVE, just as in RL, whistle blowers are extremely important and this is why there are and should be laws in RL to protect whistle blowers from blowback. The best source of information is from someone on the inside and when something is being done improperly it is crucial that someone has a conscience or the morals or even the guts to stand up and publicly say so, despite the problems that may arise. Especially if that person tried to handle things quietly and couldn't get anywhere in that fashion.

I personally think Shar has enough of a rep around here that at least a few people who invested in E-Bank did so because he was there. Perhaps not most or even lots, but at least a few. But really, if even one person did then he owes it to them to explain why he left. And honestly all future investors deserve to know this as well.

Do I think this is the end of E-Bank? Obviously not.

Do I think E-Bank should take this seriously and actually come forward and admit if there were some shortcomings and then explain how they will try to fix them? Absolutely.

Do I expect anything to really change? No. In the end E-Bank = Ricdic. If Ricdic wants to do something badly enough it will happen, especially now that Shar is gone. We all know that one way or another Ricdic will get his way, even if it means more people resigning.

Is that entirely bad? No. Ricdic has a lot of good ideas and is an amazingly helpful figure to the market community. He seems like a truly good guy. But he isn't perfect, no one is, and having someone like Shar to keep him in check a bit was probably a blessing in disguise that he is now rid of. Lets just hope Ricdic will keep himself reigned in without the watchdog nipping at his heels.

---

Quote:

---

Ricdic (about starting ebank, July 2007): Think of it as a miniature EIB done right. I cannot see this getting anywhere near 700b any time in the future tbh.

---

Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155

---

If you don't trust any member of the Ebank staff with your isk, why the hell do you have any isk deposited there? When you deposit your money into your RL savings account, do you get a say as to how they earn the money that pays you interest? I don't think so, atleast not at the bank I worked at. All we really have in eve is the shares system, but ebank does not offer shares to customers. Also, from what I can tell that project is not under the sole control of one individual.

---

Originally by: Thorrak McFluffypants

---

The key thing that people need to understand is that EBANK is, as a result of the exercise being discussed, no longer a bank. It is now an IPO masquerading as a bank.

---

Originally by: Nissan Sentra

---

#1. I know how much they got back, and when. However, he did not live up to the terms in said IPO thred did he?

#2. Recent post in this Topic stated they had voted to increase funding to 200 BILLION. Read up.

---

Originally by: Nissan Sentra

---

3 a.m. ftw.

Ok, let work this out AC.

#1. I know how much they got back, and when. However, he did not live up to the terms in said IPO thred did he?

#2. Recent post in this Topic stated they had voted to increase funding to 200 BILLION. Read up.

#3. I've been here watching. I don't think I need post inless I have a question or think something needs to be said. Also, I also know Ricdic. This is my alt, Dr Clark is my main. I was on the board of Directors with Dysanty Bank, and alot of the ideas that Dysanty runs off of where discussed between myself, Hexx, and Ricdic.

#4. "No one on the Ebank side seems to be taking this current problem serious. Its like, well we have your isk so..... Know what I mean? What is the % of bank funds does Ricdic hold?" Dont ignore only certain parts of my post if ur going to respond to it

---

Quote:

---

Ricdic (about starting ebank, July 2007): Think of it as a miniature EIB done right. I cannot see this getting anywhere near 700b any time in the future tbh.

---

Originally by: Thorrak McFluffypants

---

Originally by: Nissan Sentra

---

#1. I know how much they got back, and when. However, he did not live up to the terms in said IPO thred did he?

#2. Recent post in this Topic stated they had voted to increase funding to 200 BILLION. Read up.

---

Without knowing anything about PP beyond what I've read in this thread, the key questions I would have are this:

1. Given the failure of his last venture which was at best 2/3s the size of the venture being disucssed and at most 2/5ths the size, what has been done to ensure that the previous failure doesn't repeat itself?

2. Seeing as the bank is investing 1/3 of its capital base into one project, what systems are in place to ensure that the project will not result in loss of depositor value?

3. Why was PP provided 200 billion of bank capital given that his previous IPO failed?

Although PP certainly has a good reason to not be able to complete his previous IPO given his deployment, he admits that this risk still exists. If he gets deployed again, or otherwise faces similar circumstances, why is he now being given 200 billion of capital to play with without depositors having the opportunity to know what they've now invested in?

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Originally by: Thorrak McFluffypants

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Without knowing anything about PP beyond what I've read in this thread, the key questions I would have are this:

1. Given the failure of his last venture which was at best 2/3s the size of the venture being disucssed and at most 2/5ths the size, what has been done to ensure that the previous failure doesn't repeat itself?

2. Seeing as the bank is investing 1/3 of its capital base into one project, what systems are in place to ensure that the project will not result in loss of depositor value?

3. Why was PP provided 200 billion of bank capital given that his previous IPO failed?

Although PP certainly has a good reason to not be able to complete his previous IPO given his deployment, he admits that this risk still exists. If he gets deployed again, or otherwise faces similar circumstances, why is he now being given 200 billion of capital to play with without depositors having the opportunity to know what they've now invested in?

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Quote:

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Ricdic (about starting ebank, July 2007): Think of it as a miniature EIB done right. I cannot see this getting anywhere near 700b any time in the future tbh.

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Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155

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1. No he didn't live up to the terms of his IPO but he ended it well, better than most and all investors got their isk back. Plus, I didn't see any complaining in his closing down thread(funny how some people waited to complain until now, or they complain and they weren;t even investors). Mostly it was people commending him for trying and knowing when to shut down. Also, I don't see your name on his list of investors so I'm not sure why you think your opinion matters about how his investment was closed down.

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Originally by: Thorrak McFluffypants

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Without knowing anything about PP beyond what I've read in this threadh

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Originally by: Thorrak McFluffypants

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1. Given the failure of his last venture which was at best 2/3s the size of the venture being disucssed and at most 2/5ths the size, what has been done to ensure that the previous failure doesn't repeat itself?

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Originally by: Thorrak McFluffypants

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2. Seeing as the bank is investing 1/3 of its capital base into one project, what systems are in place to ensure that the project will not result in loss of depositor value?

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Originally by: Thorrak McFluffypants

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3. Why was PP provided 200 billion of bank capital given that his previous IPO failed?

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Originally by: Thorrak McFluffypants

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Although PP certainly has a good reason to not be able to complete his previous IPO given his deployment, he admits that this risk still exists. If he gets deployed again, or otherwise faces similar circumstances, why is he now being given 200 billion of capital to play with without depositors having the opportunity to know what they've now invested in?

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Originally by: Thorrak McFluffypants

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The key point you're missing here is that PP is now admittedly involved in the management of somewhere between 125-200 billion of ebank assets. In my opinion PP is commendable for his ability and willingness to shut down his IPO the way that he did. The problem now, however, is that each EBANK depositor is now effectively an investor in his new IPO. While in the past this was both acceptable and expected -- ebank invests in virtually every IPO I've seen -- taking a stake of between 1/6 to 1/3 of the deposit base in one investment wouldn't be seen as acceptable diversification by even the most liberal definition.

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Quote:

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Ricdic (about starting ebank, July 2007): Think of it as a miniature EIB done right. I cannot see this getting anywhere near 700b any time in the future tbh.

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Originally by: Kwint Sommer

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Failure is a bit harsh, he paid back everything plus interest on par with an EBANK savings account. He didn't meet promised returns but he resolved a shity situation pretty well and to the satisfaction of the great bulk of his investors.

The reasons for the previous venture's low returns were complex and had a lot to do with his inability to log into EVE thanks to deployments. From what has been said, that isn't an issue here as his main role is advising using out of game channels.

Also regarding size, you can't compare apple's and oranges. You can't say that putting 200B into Titan production is harder than putting 100B into T1 Cruiser production just because it's a bigger amount of capital. We can't really judge whether is harder too manage without knowing what it is.

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Originally by: Kwint Sommer

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Originally by: Thorrak McFluffypants

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2. Seeing as the bank is investing 1/3 of its capital base into one project, what systems are in place to ensure that the project will not result in loss of depositor value?

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Anything can depreciate. That's always a risk and you simply have to trust that those in charge are managing risk vs reward.

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Originally by: Kwint Sommer

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Ah? He wasn't given 200B, according to this thread he wasn't even given 10B. He is simply advising, other people -namely Ricdic- are managing the funds.
...
Gah! He wasn't given the cash and you somehow missed the fact that he is currently deployed! That's right, he's currently sitting in the middle of some ocean and it is from that position that he has been advising.

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Originally by: Kwint Sommer

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Now, I answered your questions, you answer one of mine: Who the hell are you Senior Alt?

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Originally by: Nissan Sentra

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After speaking with Ricdic he has cleared up some questions I have had without going into too much detail. I retract all pervious statments, and to AC155 I offer my apoligizes.

Note to Self: Ask questions before you assume you know whats going on

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Originally by: Thorrak McFluffypants

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The key thing that people need to understand is that EBANK is, as a result of the exercise being discussed, no longer a bank. It is now an IPO masquerading as a bank.

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Originally by: Damini Frostmane

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Sex isn't sex unless one of you is crying afterwards :-)

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Originally by: YouGotRipped

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Originally by: Letias

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So now that everyone knows that Ebank actually takes risks with their money they decide to withdraw it? When I signed up in the very first batch of accounts I knew that by depositing my money there was a risk of loss either whole or partial.

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There is a difference between taking risks and letting Ricdic handle the funds.

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Originally by: Damini Frostmane

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Sex isn't sex unless one of you is crying afterwards :-)

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Originally by: Letias

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Originally by: YouGotRipped

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Originally by: Letias

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So now that everyone knows that Ebank actually takes risks with their money they decide to withdraw it? When I signed up in the very first batch of accounts I knew that by depositing my money there was a risk of loss either whole or partial.

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There is a difference between taking risks and letting Ricdic handle the funds.

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I invested in that too if you keep reading. By having him handle all deposits has not been an issue of him handeling funds in the past, interesting how that is not the thrust of your argument.

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Originally by: YouGotRipped

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Just because something did not happen doesn't mean everything is perfect. (and in Ricdic's case it did happen).
How many RHCRPs does it take to realize that Ricdic's judgment is lacking to the point he is unsuited for taking decisions unaided?

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Originally by: Damini Frostmane

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Sex isn't sex unless one of you is crying afterwards :-)

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Originally by: Letias

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Originally by: YouGotRipped

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Just because something did not happen doesn't mean everything is perfect. (and in Ricdic's case it did happen).
How many RHCRPs does it take to realize that Ricdic's judgment is lacking to the point he is unsuited for taking decisions unaided?

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How many RHCPs have there been?

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Originally by: Letias

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So now that everyone knows that Ebank actually takes risks with their money they decide to withdraw it?

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Originally by: Proton Power

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Originally by: jna

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Edited by: jna on 15/07/2008 21:59:25
tldr; version

1. The lone voice of reason has left EBANK.
2. EBANK is essentially Ricdic's personal fiefdom.
3. Most everyone else on the board is too pre-occupied and/or scared/useless to say "boo" when required.
4. EBANK is utterly useless at communication and could seriously do with a media course.
5. Oh, and PP is here to save everything with his own, unique brand of apology.

What did I miss?

This is genius.

EDIT: All I need now is a post from LaVista Vista and I can die happy.

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1. Yes nobody else argues or speaks up at all. What will Ebank do now.
2. Actually Ricdic has spent every Ebank Isk on spirits and slaves. I dont even know how we hande withdrawls anymore.
3. Yep to scared here.
4. Working on communicatoin, but some of that was false as said by me, hexx, and I think 1 or 2 others.
5. I never appologized for joining Ebank and never will. I will appologize for my IPO failing, but I also did the best I could with my situation. And I posted multiple times I am in the US Navy and things come up beyond my control, multiple times. ALL INVESTORS new this.

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Originally by: Proton Power

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I am not a director, I am not even paid as Ebank Staff, I am not a board member.

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Originally by: Jackie Fisher

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I'm not sure that you understand my point. The increased risk is not from Ricdic being a megalomaniac or not, or from PP being a bad/good business man or a 100/125/175/200 billion ISK business venture by Ebank. The increased risk is that so many people will lose confidence that the bank will run out of liquid assets to keep operating.

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