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Mai Khumm
Apple Construction Inc Northern Associates.
181
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Posted - 2012.03.16 18:39:00 -
[1] - Quote
According to the latest devblog. (Correct me if I'm wrong here) More ISK came from bounties then incursions.
http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=9115
Mainly this quote...
"ThereGÇÿs certainly a lot of money coming from Incursions.-á Incursion rewards in December amounted to 9.6 trillion ISK, which is an all time high, while the rewards in January and February were 9.0 and 8.7 trillion ISK respectively.-á ThatGÇÿs quite a bit of money entering the economy.-á However, Incursions are not the biggest ISK faucet, bounties are.-á Bounty prizes paid out in February totalled 33 trillion ISK."
So Apperantly incursions are not the biggest ISK faucet, but then how come I keep on reading posts stating that it is and how it should be stopped...
Oh wait, only null alliances are saying that, while having the bigger ISK faucet... "Being drunk is a good disguise. I drink so I can talk to a**holes. This includes me." |
Daneirkus Auralex
The Foreign Legion Test Alliance Please Ignore
32
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Posted - 2012.03.16 18:40:00 -
[2] - Quote
Just uninstall now. |
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
141
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Posted - 2012.03.16 18:40:00 -
[3] - Quote
That's why I added it to my sig. But jelly people are just blinded and see only what they want to see To the whiners :-áCCP Soundwave "Incursions are not a big issue in terms of isk globally" CCP Recurve "However, Incursions are not the biggest ISK faucet, bounties are"
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masternerdguy
Navy of Xoc
1
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Posted - 2012.03.16 18:41:00 -
[4] - Quote
I have an idea. Just increase the price of all ships by a factor of 10 to compensate for inflation. You can do this by making them need more minerals to build |
Sentient Blade
Walk It Off Imperial Ascension
287
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Posted - 2012.03.16 18:42:00 -
[5] - Quote
We're still waiting on ISK-per-person-per-activity figures I believe. |
gfldex
381
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Posted - 2012.03.16 19:02:00 -
[6] - Quote
Mai Khumm wrote:Oh wait, only null alliances are saying that, while having the bigger ISK faucet...
I thought highsec missions are still in highsec. c/d? The game has a tutorial that gives you a mining laser and a railgun and tells you to go shoot rocks and red crosses. It teaches you nothing else. It's been that way for 8 years, so are you really surprised that there are people who aren't aware that this is a pvp game? --Jafit McJafitson |
Mai Khumm
Apple Construction Inc Northern Associates.
181
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Posted - 2012.03.16 19:06:00 -
[7] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote:I have an idea. Just increase the price of all ships by a factor of 10 to compensate for inflation. You can do this by making them need more minerals to build I actually like this idea, increase the materials needed for construction. Decrease the yield from reprocessing modules, and increase the yeild from asteroids... "Being drunk is a good disguise. I drink so I can talk to a**holes. This includes me." |
Lexmana
Imperial Stout
253
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Posted - 2012.03.16 19:10:00 -
[8] - Quote
Mai Khumm wrote:According to the latest devblog. (Correct me if I'm wrong here) More ISK came from bounties then incursions.
You seem surprised that a small minority of EVE players doesn't inject the majority of the ISK in EVE. May I ask why? |
Darth Gustav
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
147
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Posted - 2012.03.16 19:14:00 -
[9] - Quote
We knew bounties were the biggest ISK faucet.
There are vastly fewer players (and sites available for) running Incursions than other PVE content.
That their ISK injection averages around 9 trillion ISK per month is quite telling.
The bounty injection from non-incursion runners would have stayed more-or-less constant over time, while the added ISK from incursions is new.
This is the most irresponsible representation of facts I could imagine, and it's quite telling of just how "Fearless" CCP really is.
I'm sure some devs spent literally weeks copying the code for Rikti Raids from COH, after all.
Just in: Eve is displayed on monitors using pixels as a base unit! He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
Feligast
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1158
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Posted - 2012.03.16 19:19:00 -
[10] - Quote
Mai Khumm wrote:According to the latest devblog. (Correct me if I'm wrong here) More ISK came from bounties then incursions. http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=9115Mainly this quote... "ThereGÇÿs certainly a lot of money coming from Incursions.-á Incursion rewards in December amounted to 9.6 trillion ISK, which is an all time high, while the rewards in January and February were 9.0 and 8.7 trillion ISK respectively.-á ThatGÇÿs quite a bit of money entering the economy.-á However, Incursions are not the biggest ISK faucet, bounties are.-á Bounty prizes paid out in February totalled 33 trillion ISK." So Apperantly incursions are not the biggest ISK faucet, but then how come I keep on reading posts stating that it is and how it should be stopped... Oh wait, only null alliances are saying that, while having the bigger ISK faucet...
You realize "bounties" include all mission bounties in hisec too, right?
Terrible post from terrible pets. |
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FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks
1100
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Posted - 2012.03.16 19:30:00 -
[11] - Quote
"Bounties" includes all rat kills, missions, and anomalies all over the galaxy. AFK miners with a few combat drones orbiting them contribute to the bounty numbers. So of course there will be more bounties.
Let's look at it this way: Incursion payouts represent roughly 25% of the isk injected into the system.
Now consider what percentage of the player population those payouts are going to. Incursion farming by the "elite" incursion crowd is creating unbalanced wealth that is going to hurt everyone BUT those who make a career out of incursions. It's time to put an end to CCP's war on piracy. Fight your own battles and stop asking CCP to do it for you. |
Darth Gustav
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
148
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Posted - 2012.03.16 19:32:00 -
[12] - Quote
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:"Bounties" includes all rat kills, missions, and anomalies all over the galaxy. AFK miners with a few combat drones orbiting them contribute to the bounty numbers. So of course there will be more bounties.
Let's look at it this way: Incursion payouts represent roughly 25% of the isk injected into the system.
Even more important, does anybody really think that a corresponding 25% of the population are running these stupid things?
If not, it's a ******* problem. He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
Terazul
The Scope Gallente Federation
15
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Posted - 2012.03.16 19:36:00 -
[13] - Quote
Overall isk injection is irrelevant.
What is relevant is isk injection PER CAPITA.
I am under the distinct impression that those figures would not be anywhere nearly as benign.
Also, what ^ said about population. We know for a fact that not even close to 25% of players are running Incursions, so it follows that the proportion of isk injected into the economy through incursion players is disproportionate to most other activities in the game. |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
158
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Posted - 2012.03.16 20:17:00 -
[14] - Quote
Terazul wrote:Overall isk injection is irrelevant.
What is relevant is isk injection PER CAPITA.
I am under the distinct impression that those figures would not be anywhere nearly as benign.
Also, what ^ said about population. We know for a fact that not even close to 25% of players are running Incursions, so it follows that the proportion of isk injected into the economy through incursion players is disproportionate to most other activities in the game.
Does your country have some internet law that disallows you from running incursions? Does your corp or alliance disallow you from running incursions?
I personally have not run them for weeks now, since I can't commit the hours required to help a fleet. (Yeah, you can't jump in and out of Incursions like you can run missions or rat in belts.), but I defend the Incursion runners right to do what they do.
I laugh at all the people who whine about Incursions. The "meanies won't let me play with them when I show up in a T1 fitted BC". You don't have the skills or ISK to fit a proper Incursion ship? Welcome to Eve.
I don't have the skills or ISK to fly a super-cap. I should complain to CCP so no one can fly one if I can't. I don't have the skills, time, or mindset to fly with badass corps like PL, who demand specific ship fits and skills. I should petition CCP to ban PL because of that. I don't have the skills to fly a Hulk. I should petition CCP to dramatically lower the asteroid and ice belt contents. I don't have the skills to fly a Marauder. I should petition CCP to wipe out L4 missions.
Oh, and while we are on the topic of "incursions are bad for the Eve economy", guess we should wipe out all wormhole activity. I mean, prior to Apochrypha, the ISK faucet known as L6 wormhole combat sites did not exist. Those guys pull in countless billions in a day. It is entirely irrelevant that they have invested countless ISK and skills into their ships, let alone the huge time investment in putting together a fleet or pilots who trust each other and fly the proper fleet complement.
Heck, while we are on the subject, we should wipe out ALL NPC bounties and mission loot/salvage. I mean, the NPC bounties alone are 81% of all PVE in the game. Think how quickly we could get the economy under control if we wiped out all NPC bounties, and the only way to generate ISK was from er.....well, OK, there would be no way to generate ISK in the game, but I have a moral objection to all those NPC bounty runners who are more efficient than me and make more than me. I should whine about that too.
Please CCP, any one who makes more ISK/hour than I do, please ban all their accounts. That would be the fairest thing and best for the game.
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Grumpy Owly
330
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Posted - 2012.03.16 20:21:00 -
[15] - Quote
Terazul wrote:Overall isk injection is irrelevant.
What is relevant is isk injection PER CAPITA.
I am under the distinct impression that those figures would not be anywhere nearly as benign.
Also, what ^ said about population. We know for a fact that not even close to 25% of players are running Incursions, so it follows that the proportion of isk injected into the economy through incursion players is disproportionate to most other activities in the game.
Both are relevant.
Simply effecting one area of the game but not compensating for overall growth in wallets wont help to solve the inflationary issues.
Vincent Athena wrote: I added up all the sources: 59 trillion I added up all the sinks: 30.5 trillion
ISK is entering the game at about twice the rate its leaving the game, the actual ratio being 1.94.
If incursions went away and we assume those players would go do L4 missions instead, the 8.556 trillion incursion ISK would become maybe 2 trillion additional mission ISK. Then the source/sink ratio would be 1.72.
Even if incursions went away we would still be having a huge influx of ISK, and we had that situation before incursions.
The fact that someone earns more than you and you don't like that is largley due to jealousy and as such not a very rational argument. Otherwise following that logic it is most likley miners who should be most aggrieved and as such they should get the most focus next as to who should have a income balance. But of course that is always based on activity anyhow and doesnt really help them as you can only ever make the proffession more competative. But if it was purely based on wallets then they would have the most case to complain.
Also it assumes we should never ever introduce high end challenging features to the game that have significant rewards I guess? Unless of course those individuals who are continuing to bleet about incursions who don't run them and simply want to ensure their wallet isnt touched and they want to ensure that they get more income themselves. Which is rather self defeating if you assume inflation to be an issue in EvE. Also CCP have already stated that they will be mixing up the gameplay in incursions accordingly. Also dont "inflate" the figures, incursions are currently operating at 20% of faucets not 25%.
Or maybe just never introduce any new features into the game that provides new income possibilities. However, isk sinks could be applied to allow for this. Also the assumed removal of bots will help if they are also effecting bounties of course. Drone poo to bounties however, whilst good for mining will also add to the issue.
However in theory, how do we compensate for a generally accepted view of more new players and also old players coming into or returning to EvE adding to the pot. Or people improving their skills and earning potential due to a better understanding of the game. Hence the quote above why inflation is relevant even when you take incursions out of the picture. Hence why CCP largley has to look at the the big picture and as they have quoted look to see where the main actual issues are for inlation and overall income.
Considering that inflation was last quoted at 1% per month. And that CCP are considering a large macro rebalance over the whole of EvE including incursions which will likely include a mix of bounty and sink adjustments as suggested I really can't see what the big deal is about. CCP will like to keep a healthy apportionment of inflation just to avoid deflation I guess, but even using the literal rebalance of these things if you were earning 100 mil isk a month you'd now be earning 99 mil a month to avoid inflaltionary issues where they are needed.
I really can't see what the headache is about this and I have to say the CCP seem to be handling the whole affair quite sensibly and with a greater understanding of how things are operating.
I guess people will fight for every knickle and dime, but ignore any greater issue as they can't see past the blinkered view of there own lot. Attempt to nerf others irresponsibly but still leave themselves with economic problems, it's just stupid.
And this coming from a relatively new player, who doesn't run incursions and hasn't really had the opportunity to get into the big money as yet. And to remind people of where the wealth is being controlled (other than alliance or corporation wallets):
http://twitter.com/#!/CCP_Diagoras/status/162116028741062656/photo/1
And yet there is still more calls for gimmie, gimmie, gimmie from the bittervets who want loads of veteran rewards. Meanwhile the average EvE public has to suffer the burden of problems and the newbie penalised further into getting into the game I guess?
Whilst I recognise that Veterans have devoted and invested more into the game and should have some aspect of reward. Can we at least do it so as not to make the game elitist and selfish that it has a chance to encourage others into participating. Or perhaps people generally could actually begin to see that the meta win policies some want to introduce or just general selfish attitudes is simply not helping them or the whole of EvE in the longer term or rasing the important wealth in the game, that being players, freindships and the most important commodity fun.
Fortunatley, I see CCP suggesting a shared change to the inflation problem with perhaps some focus to where the problems exist. So all your "I want" rants I hope will be wasted attempts of trying to ignore the actual facts. Bounty Hunting for CSM 7
Stop EvE Apathy |
Darth Gustav
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
150
|
Posted - 2012.03.16 20:21:00 -
[16] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Terazul wrote:Overall isk injection is irrelevant.
What is relevant is isk injection PER CAPITA.
I am under the distinct impression that those figures would not be anywhere nearly as benign.
Also, what ^ said about population. We know for a fact that not even close to 25% of players are running Incursions, so it follows that the proportion of isk injected into the economy through incursion players is disproportionate to most other activities in the game. Does your country have some internet law that disallows you from running incursions? Does your corp or alliance disallow you from running incursions? I personally have not run them for weeks now, since I can't commit the hours required to help a fleet. (Yeah, you can't jump in and out of Incursions like you can run missions or rat in belts.), but I defend the Incursion runners right to do what they do. I laugh at all the people who whine about Incursions. The "meanies won't let me play with them when I show up in a T1 fitted BC". You don't have the skills or ISK to fit a proper Incursion ship? Welcome to Eve. I don't have the skills or ISK to fly a super-cap. I should complain to CCP so no one can fly one if I can't. I don't have the skills, time, or mindset to fly with badass corps like PL, who demand specific ship fits and skills. I should petition CCP to ban PL because of that. I don't have the skills to fly a Hulk. I should petition CCP to dramatically lower the asteroid and ice belt contents. I don't have the skills to fly a Marauder. I should petition CCP to wipe out L4 missions. Oh, and while we are on the topic of "incursions are bad for the Eve economy", guess we should wipe out all wormhole activity. I mean, prior to Apochrypha, the ISK faucet known as L6 wormhole combat sites did not exist. Those guys pull in countless billions in a day. It is entirely irrelevant that they have invested countless ISK and skills into their ships, let alone the huge time investment in putting together a fleet or pilots who trust each other and fly the proper fleet complement. Heck, while we are on the subject, we should wipe out ALL NPC bounties and mission loot/salvage. I mean, the NPC bounties alone are 81% of all PVE in the game. Think how quickly we could get the economy under control if we wiped out all NPC bounties, and the only way to generate ISK was from er.....well, OK, there would be no way to generate ISK in the game, but I have a moral objection to all those NPC bounty runners who are more efficient than me and make more than me. I should whine about that too. Please CCP, any one who makes more ISK/hour than I do, please ban all their accounts. That would be the fairest thing and best for the game.
Do the rewards get distributed to all the participating fleets?
Are there a very limited number of sites?
When they are farmed out do they respawn?
Your points are as laughable as your position.
You virtually don't have one. He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
Aiwha
101st Space Marine Force Nulli Secunda
219
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Posted - 2012.03.16 20:48:00 -
[17] - Quote
Botters gonna bot. Regards,
LCpl. Aiwha-á Senior Recruiter |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
5632
|
Posted - 2012.03.16 21:04:00 -
[18] - Quote
Mai Khumm wrote:So Apperantly incursions are not the biggest ISK faucet, but then how come I keep on reading posts stating that it is and how it should be stopped...
Oh wait, only null alliances are saying that, while having the bigger ISK faucet... GǪactually, no-one ever said that they were GÇö that's just a straw man incursion-defenders pull out to have something even remotely resembling a point (even though it's a fallacy).
Bounties have always been the largest faucet and no-one has ever claimed otherwise. The problem is that the economy was a bit out of whack already before incursions were introduced, and their addition made an already precarious situation worse for no good reason.
Moreover, no, it's not the null alliances saying that (so that's your second straw man in two sentences GÇö well done) GÇö they (and many others) are simply saying that the rewards from incursions are out of whack compared to the safety of highsec. Oh, and as for GÇ£having a bigger faucetGÇ¥, there are two things you could be referring to here, and both of them are probably wrong.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |
JitaPriceChecker2
State War Academy Caldari State
57
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Posted - 2012.03.16 21:55:00 -
[19] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Mai Khumm wrote:So Apperantly incursions are not the biggest ISK faucet, but then how come I keep on reading posts stating that it is and how it should be stopped...
Oh wait, only null alliances are saying that, while having the bigger ISK faucet... GǪactually, no-one ever said that they were GÇö that's just a straw man incursion-defenders pull out to have something even remotely resembling a point (even though it's a fallacy). Bounties have always been the largest faucet and no-one has ever claimed otherwise. The problem is that the economy was a bit out of whack already before incursions were introduced, and their addition made an already precarious situation worse for no good reason. Moreover, no, it's not the null alliances saying that (so that's your second straw man in two sentences GÇö well done) GÇö they (and many others) are simply saying that the rewards from incursions are out of whack compared to the safety of highsec. Oh, and as for GÇ£having a bigger faucetGÇ¥, there are two things you could be referring to here, and both of them are probably wrong.
Stop making sense.
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FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks
1104
|
Posted - 2012.03.16 22:22:00 -
[20] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:I defend the Incursion runners right to do what they do.
As do I. What I object to is the current incursion model, not the entire mechanic. Cash payouts need to be tweaked and/or farming needs to be discouraged. Overall I think Incursion is a good expansion with good motives, it just needs some adjusting.
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Oh, and while we are on the topic of "incursions are bad for the Eve economy", guess we should wipe out all wormhole activity. I mean, prior to Apochrypha, the ISK faucet known as L6 wormhole combat sites did not exist. Those guys pull in countless billions in a day.
Bounties paid on sleepers since the release of Apocrypha: 0.00 isk.
The money made in wormholes comes from mining ore and acquiring parts to make strategic cruisers, and then selling either the raw materials or the finished products. They inject almost no cash into the system. It's time to put an end to CCP's war on piracy. Fight your own battles and stop asking CCP to do it for you. |
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Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
281
|
Posted - 2012.03.16 22:34:00 -
[21] - Quote
We're still waiting for CCPSoundwave to pull his head out of his arse and admit that his "baby" needs some tough love. In irae, veritas. |
Khanh'rhh
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
882
|
Posted - 2012.03.16 22:42:00 -
[22] - Quote
OP:
If bounty payments did not change at all and incursions added 99% of the ISK that bounties did, that would be a doubling of the ISK entering the game AND your statement and the statement in the devblog would be true. That it is "less" does not mean it is insignificant.
Unless there's any data on how many characters would be running missions instead of incursions weighing two different groups of players against one another is meaningless.
Let's look at a generic mission bear before Incursions started. These players would tick something like 60mil per hour from level 4s. Some of that is revenue from salvage / loot / LP conversion and the actual "bounty ticks" from a 60mil per hour income were/are closer to 20-30 per hour.
If that player now runs Incursions, they will be earning ~100mil per hour, and none of that is from salvage / loot or LP conversion (indeed, LP profits are on top of the high figures you see thrown about).
I simply find it impossible to believe that the average player grinding PVE content to make ISK is not causing the creation of significantly more ISK than before. Indeed, logically, it is almost impossible for them to be creating LESS ISK than before.
Whether or not inflation is currently being balanced by a large number of ISK sinks presently (or indeed from mineral faucets...) is harder to ascertain, but it is very hard to imagine a logical scenario in which your average PVE grinder could possibly be creating less ISK.
The very nature of the problem is thus:
- Anyone still running missions will illicit no change on the economy - Anyone shifting to incursions (fully or partially) will see a larger amount of their income from pure ISK
With the bounty injections remaining seemingly steady, but with the "new" ISK from Incursions reaching 33% of the total amount, one could conclude that the Incursion content itself is more open to grinding and inspires ISK creation.
CCP Diagoras has already released figures showing the average ISK made per character running Incursions is MANY MANY MANY MANY times what the average mission runner is pulling in, simply looking at the ISK. - "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930's |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex Cosmic Consortium
1041
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Posted - 2012.03.16 23:11:00 -
[23] - Quote
[quote=Grumpy Owly]Simply effecting one area of the game but not compensating for overall growth in wallets wont help to solve the inflationary issues.[/quote
Exactly the issue that Incursion-nerfers are upset about. Incursions came along and increased the ISK faucet flow without sinking more currency out of the game. How do we balance the faucet that is Incursions? Perhaps remove insurance payouts for ships worth mire than 1M ISK unless insurance has been bought
There are other issues with Incursions which is why we have the Vanguard-nerfing arguments, but the main issue with Incursions is that the ISK sink that was introduced with Incursions in the form of the CONCORD LP store was not enough to soak up all the ISK being generated
Simple fixes could include providing more LP with less ISK reward, for example, or reducing payouts while boosting salvage from Incursion Sanshas wrecks. This will not necessarily reduce the income potential of incursions, but will reduce the ISK faucet
More complex fixes will involve the entire economy. The catch is that the economy appears to be unstable at the moment due to Insursions injecting ISK that wasn't previously entering the game. A simple proof that Incursions are impacting the economy would be to turn them off for two months.
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Ajita al Tchar
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
122
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Posted - 2012.03.16 23:12:00 -
[24] - Quote
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:I defend the Incursion runners right to do what they do. As do I. What I object to is the current incursion model, not the entire mechanic. Cash payouts need to be tweaked and/or farming needs to be discouraged. Overall I think Incursion is a good expansion with good motives, it just needs some adjusting. Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Oh, and while we are on the topic of "incursions are bad for the Eve economy", guess we should wipe out all wormhole activity. I mean, prior to Apochrypha, the ISK faucet known as L6 wormhole combat sites did not exist. Those guys pull in countless billions in a day. Bounties paid on sleepers since the release of Apocrypha: 0.00 isk. The money made in wormholes comes from mining ore and acquiring parts to make strategic cruisers, and then selling either the raw materials or the finished products. They inject almost no cash into the system. If you don't understand the difference between wormhole profits and incursion profits, you don't need to be arguing economics at all.
Actually you're wrong about wormholes injecting next to no ISK. See this for evidence: http://twostep4csm.blogspot.com/2012/03/its-econmony-stupid.html
It might seem like w-space sites' pay mostly comes from materials (salvage, ore, gas) if you live in lower class wormholes. It is certainly the case for C1's and C2's, and starts changing somewhat at C3's (the blue loot alone from anoms starts adding up to not quite pocket change, especially if you're not terrible and it doesn't take you an hour per anom, but still, tradeable resources remain very important). In C5's and C6's blue loot alone from cap spawns is worth a lot. Nanoribbons start being a nice extra. Blue loot is guaranteed (it's basically the same as empire faction tags), salvage isn't, and the blue loot market doesn't tank since it's NPCs that buy it. So, for the purposes of ISK injection, C5 and C6 wormholes are large contributors, C4's not as much but still substantial. Lower classes aren't as big of a deal.
If blue loot values were nerfed somewhat it wouldn't be that big of a problem, really (as long as it's not a crazy nerf, at least not when NPC bounties exist elsewhere). But one very important difference between ISK injected via C5-C6 wh sites and high sec incursions is the risk factor, and the overall cost of wormhole living (a big material sink). The risk of running successful ops in w-space and the risks of general w-space living are immeasurably higher than the lolrisk of high sec incursions. It's okay if they inject more money than said incursions, especially since more people live in w-space than run incursions in high sec.
Also, it's possible for blue loot from Sleepers to not result in injected ISK even if it's collected, as it can be blown up http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=12431357 |
Grumpy Owly
332
|
Posted - 2012.03.17 00:42:00 -
[25] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Grumpy Owly wrote:Simply effecting one area of the game but not compensating for overall growth in wallets wont help to solve the inflationary issues. Exactly the issue that Incursion-nerfers are upset about. Incursions came along and increased the ISK faucet flow without sinking more currency out of the game. How do we balance the faucet that is Incursions? Perhaps remove insurance payouts for ships worth mire than 1M ISK unless insurance has been bought There are other issues with Incursions which is why we have the Vanguard-nerfing arguments, but the main issue with Incursions is that the ISK sink that was introduced with Incursions in the form of the CONCORD LP store was not enough to soak up all the ISK being generated Simple fixes could include providing more LP with less ISK reward, for example, or reducing payouts while boosting salvage from Incursion Sanshas wrecks. This will not necessarily reduce the income potential of incursions, but will reduce the ISK faucet More complex fixes will involve the entire economy. The catch is that the economy appears to be unstable at the moment due to Insursions injecting ISK that wasn't previously entering the game. A simple proof that Incursions are impacting the economy would be to turn them off for two months.
Except that you are again completely ignoring all the other faucets by doing this and clearly not addressing all the inflationary causing problems as I described and others have shown that even with reduction in the issues associated with incursion you still haven't addressed the problem in completeness.
Its this kind of stupidity to issues that we don't need advising game mechanic changes. And if anything shows a complete arrogance with a blinkered view of things and something you have specifically chosen to continue with by ignoring the issue more than once with a chinese water torture practice of dismissing the main problems that CCP have identified and continuing with a singular view of nerfing incursions only.
However, the compromise of LP for isk for incursions as a consideration for re-balancing the rewards specifically within the context of incursions may have some mileage. Bounty Hunting for CSM 7
Stop EvE Apathy |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
234
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Posted - 2012.03.17 01:22:00 -
[26] - Quote
Khanh'rhh wrote:With the bounty injections remaining seemingly steady, but with the "new" ISK from Incursions reaching 33% of the total amount, one could conclude that the Incursion content itself is more open to grinding and inspires ISK creation.
CCP Diagoras has already released figures showing the average ISK made per character running Incursions is MANY MANY MANY MANY times what the average mission runner is pulling in, simply looking at the ISK. Nothing like grinding red crosses for tons of isk per hour or such.
Take all the tech Build all the titans Drop all the POSes
Bees incoming, nerf ERRYTHING ERRYDAY |
Cyprus Black
The Eden Company
157
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Posted - 2012.03.17 01:25:00 -
[27] - Quote
So, incursions are not the big isk faucet. Bounties are.
I'm willing to bet the main reason why is the 23/7 nullsec bot ratters. Follow my EvE blog at: http://cyprusblack.blogspot.com/ |
Darth Gustav
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
155
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Posted - 2012.03.17 02:01:00 -
[28] - Quote
Cyprus Black wrote:So, incursions are not the big isk faucet. Bounties are.
I'm willing to bet the main reason why is the 23/7 nullsec bot ratters.
Yes because 66%+ of the population doesn't really live in high-sec...
He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
Terminal Insanity
Convex Enterprises Unprovoked Aggression
282
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Posted - 2012.03.17 02:08:00 -
[29] - Quote
Mai Khumm wrote: Oh wait, only null alliances are saying that, while having the bigger ISK faucet...
Nullsec faucet got pinched quite a while ago. You used to be able to do nonstop Haven/Sanctums, now you cant. Now its roughly the same as highsec lvl4's, but instead of having an agent you need to roam around low/null scanning... It takes more work for the same gain.
Lvl5's pay more then 4's yes, however consider its split between usually 2 or 3 characters and so the 'isk per hour' for each character is actually lower then lvl4's or incursions.
Expeditions often take you deep into hostitle territory where our fancy ships are at high risk. Often times you follow an expedition only to end up with the final destination in the middle of goon territory. Bleh. |
The Pteradactyl
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.03.17 02:09:00 -
[30] - Quote
Even though Incursions are not the biggest ISK faucet they are a MUCH bigger driver of inflation than bounties in an apples to apples comparison.
The primary reason being that many people salvage the rats that produce bounties. This produces an amount of minerals or mods to partially offset the ISK being poured in to the game. Incursions produce large amounts of ISK but contribute zero minerals or mods to the game that would balance out some of the inflation.
Is this logic sound? If not, why not?
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