Even though Incursions are not the biggest ISK faucet they are a MUCH bigger driver of inflation than bounties in an apples to apples comparison.

The primary reason being that many people salvage the rats that produce bounties. This produces an amount of minerals or mods to partially offset the ISK being poured in to the game. Incursions produce large amounts of ISK but contribute zero minerals or mods to the game that would balance out some of the inflation.

Is this logic sound? If not, why not?

Even though Incursions are not the biggest ISK faucet they are a MUCH bigger driver of inflation than bounties in an apples to apples comparison.

The primary reason being that many people salvage the rats that produce bounties. This produces an amount of minerals or mods to partially offset the ISK being poured in to the game. Incursions produce large amounts of ISK but contribute zero minerals or mods to the game that would balance out some of the inflation.

Is this logic sound? If not, why not?

Even though Incursions are not the biggest ISK faucet they are a MUCH bigger driver of inflation than bounties in an apples to apples comparison.

The primary reason being that many people salvage the rats that produce bounties. This produces an amount of minerals or mods to partially offset the ISK being poured in to the game. Incursions produce large amounts of ISK but contribute zero minerals or mods to the game that would balance out some of the inflation.

Is this logic sound? If not, why not?

what about the isk generated from LP conversions to shiny things that get sold on the market?

and of course bounties are more isk in total, but unless you are running 8/10s and higher all the time you will almost certainly get richer doing incursions.

so really its manipulating the numbers for a weak troll

GǪactually, no-one ever said that they were GÇö that's just a straw man incursion-defenders pull out to have something even remotely resembling a point (even though it's a fallacy).

Bounties have always been the largest faucet and no-one has ever claimed otherwise. The problem is that the economy was a bit out of whack already before incursions were introduced, and their addition made an already precarious situation worse for no good reason.

Moreover, no, it's not the null alliances saying that (so that's your second straw man in two sentences GÇö well done) GÇö they (and many others) are simply saying that the rewards from incursions are out of whack compared to the safety of highsec. Oh, and as for GÇ£having a bigger faucetGÇ¥, there are two things you could be referring to here, and both of them are probably wrong.

Exactly the issue that Incursion-nerfers are upset about. Incursions came along and increased the ISK faucet flow without sinking more currency out of the game.

Isk Faucet and Isk Sink concerning different types of PVE.

1. Incursions generate quite a bit of isk for relatively small amount of people who run them in highsec. Many of these people don't really do much pvp and don't lose their ships very often. A lot of them don't really use or bother with the LP store, hence the isk sink from the LP store is not really effective at controlling the isk faucet.

2. Mission Running isk/hr is mostly generated by the Loyalty Store which requires lots of expensive faction tags along with isk to redeem the LP. The LP is really the only way to generate real profit with missions nowadays, making it much less of an effect.

3. Ratting in Null is mostly used to fuel PVP where billion and trillions are lost every day.

4. Wormhole space generates lot of isk, but at the expense of considerable investment and risk. To make profits you need to invest in a POS tower along with modules and months of fuel. Then you need a bunch of players who are willing to invest time and money to help with running the wormhole along with maintaining security. A Lot of time you spend in Wormhole space is mostly scanning, waiting, logistics and managing the POS. A lot of the isk generated in Wormhole space is usually kept in wormhole space as much of it is used to pay for the cost of fuel and ammo, for the players working there, and then ships and modules with PLEX to keep the account running. Last but not least there are players who will come to ruin your day. Profits and Infrastructure that you spents months building can all be destroyed within a day or two. Wormhole space works its a big Isk Faucet with a big Isk sink that I like to call the Black Hole.

Incursions don't really have an effective Isk Sink compared to other aspects of PVE and has relatively very low risk compared to equivalent ways of making profit.

I've never seen an incursion channel break 200 people, even with drive throughs that are forced to be in the channel untill they log out.

"ThereGÇÿs certainly a lot of money coming from Incursions.-á Incursion rewards in December amounted to 9.6 trillion ISK, which is an all time high, while the rewards in January and February were 9.0 and 8.7 trillion ISK respectively.-á ThatGÇÿs quite a bit of money entering the economy.-á However, Incursions are not the biggest ISK faucet, bounties are.-á Bounty prizes paid out in February totalled 33 trillion ISK."

That's an extra 10 trillion ISK that was not in the economy previously on a monthly basis. The 10 trillion ISK seems to be approximately 20% of the ISK Faucet economy ... so yeah, Incursions are having an effect.

The bounty system was here before Incursions.

No, that's incorrect. The massive jumps we see in terms of isk almost always come when we make adjustments to anomalies. The last change we did was pretty drastically increase the isk floor across the board on anomalies and the isk coming into the economy jumped after that.

I've never seen an incursion channel break 200 people, even with drive throughs that are forced to be in the channel untill they log out.

confirming that incursion runners didn't do any PvE during the 7.5 years before incursions were released.

.

Three vanguards per incursion. 6 sites per system. 11 per fleet. when there are more than 198 (- local residents) in Incursion local everybody is not getting paid. Unless there are a couple assault fleets and the occasional HG. Still <600 pilots making that bank at any given time. And with 6 fleets you WILL contest as the 6 sites don' t just pop up instantly.

You can ALWAYS make 50 mil an hour in raw ISK once you have an Incursion capable shiny, and use it to run missions instead.

You can SOMETIMES make 100 mil an hour running Incursions. Not all of the dreaded 66% can make all of that money all of the time, no matter how hard you try to hype it.

I make 500m isk an hour playing Eve Poker... should CCP nerf that?

Does your country have some internet law that disallows you from running incursions?
Does your corp or alliance disallow you from running incursions?

I personally have not run them for weeks now, since I can't commit the hours required to help a fleet. (Yeah, you can't jump in and out of Incursions like you can run missions or rat in belts.), but I defend the Incursion runners right to do what they do.

I laugh at all the people who whine about Incursions.
The "meanies won't let me play with them when I show up in a T1 fitted BC".
You don't have the skills or ISK to fit a proper Incursion ship? Welcome to Eve.

I don't have the skills or ISK to fly a super-cap. I should complain to CCP so no one can fly one if I can't.
I don't have the skills, time, or mindset to fly with badass corps like PL, who demand specific ship fits and skills. I should petition CCP to ban PL because of that.
I don't have the skills to fly a Hulk. I should petition CCP to dramatically lower the asteroid and ice belt contents.
I don't have the skills to fly a Marauder. I should petition CCP to wipe out L4 missions.


Oh, and while we are on the topic of "incursions are bad for the Eve economy", guess we should wipe out all wormhole activity. I mean, prior to Apochrypha, the ISK faucet known as L6 wormhole combat sites did not exist. Those guys pull in countless billions in a day. It is entirely irrelevant that they have invested countless ISK and skills into their ships, let alone the huge time investment in putting together a fleet or pilots who trust each other and fly the proper fleet complement.

Heck, while we are on the subject, we should wipe out ALL NPC bounties and mission loot/salvage. I mean, the NPC bounties alone are 81% of all PVE in the game. Think how quickly we could get the economy under control if we wiped out all NPC bounties, and the only way to generate ISK was from er.....well, OK, there would be no way to generate ISK in the game, but I have a moral objection to all those NPC bounty runners who are more efficient than me and make more than me. I should whine about that too.

Please CCP, any one who makes more ISK/hour than I do, please ban all their accounts. That would be the fairest thing and best for the game.

Stop explaining the truth to the trolls..

GǪand the truth of the matter is that incursions make for a massive ISK faucet that is completely out of proportion to how many are doing it and where they're done.

GǪand the truth of the matter is that incursions make for a massive ISK faucet that is completely out of proportion to how many are doing it and where they're done.

You want to ***** about out of porportion facets ***** about the Mineral/Catalyst faucet known as Tech Moons babe... that dwarfs Incursions by a long shot. Go fling your poo I mean goo at that feature working as intended

Your EVE Poker winnings aren't coming out of the magical ISK faucet.

Poker is zero sum. You win 500M ISK, someone (or some people) lost 500M ISK.