Oh wait, only null alliances are saying that, while having the bigger ISK faucet...

I have an idea. Just increase the price of all ships by a factor of 10 to compensate for inflation. You can do this by making them need more minerals to build

According to the latest devblog. (Correct me if I'm wrong here) More ISK came from bounties then incursions.

According to the latest devblog. (Correct me if I'm wrong here) More ISK came from bounties then incursions.

http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=9115

Mainly this quote...

"ThereGÇÿs certainly a lot of money coming from Incursions.-á Incursion rewards in December amounted to 9.6 trillion ISK, which is an all time high, while the rewards in January and February were 9.0 and 8.7 trillion ISK respectively.-á ThatGÇÿs quite a bit of money entering the economy.-á However, Incursions are not the biggest ISK faucet, bounties are.-á Bounty prizes paid out in February totalled 33 trillion ISK."

So Apperantly incursions are not the biggest ISK faucet, but then how come I keep on reading posts stating that it is and how it should be stopped...

Oh wait, only null alliances are saying that, while having the bigger ISK faucet...

"Bounties" includes all rat kills, missions, and anomalies all over the galaxy. AFK miners with a few combat drones orbiting them contribute to the bounty numbers. So of course there will be more bounties.

Let's look at it this way: Incursion payouts represent roughly 25% of the isk injected into the system.

Overall isk injection is irrelevant.

What is relevant is isk injection PER CAPITA.

I am under the distinct impression that those figures would not be anywhere nearly as benign.

Also, what ^ said about population. We know for a fact that not even close to 25% of players are running Incursions, so it follows that the proportion of isk injected into the economy through incursion players is disproportionate to most other activities in the game.

Overall isk injection is irrelevant.

What is relevant is isk injection PER CAPITA.

I am under the distinct impression that those figures would not be anywhere nearly as benign.

Also, what ^ said about population. We know for a fact that not even close to 25% of players are running Incursions, so it follows that the proportion of isk injected into the economy through incursion players is disproportionate to most other activities in the game.

I added up all the sources: 59 trillion
I added up all the sinks: 30.5 trillion

ISK is entering the game at about twice the rate its leaving the game, the actual ratio being 1.94.

If incursions went away and we assume those players would go do L4 missions instead, the 8.556 trillion incursion ISK would become maybe 2 trillion additional mission ISK. Then the source/sink ratio would be 1.72.

Even if incursions went away we would still be having a huge influx of ISK, and we had that situation before incursions.

Does your country have some internet law that disallows you from running incursions?
Does your corp or alliance disallow you from running incursions?

I personally have not run them for weeks now, since I can't commit the hours required to help a fleet. (Yeah, you can't jump in and out of Incursions like you can run missions or rat in belts.), but I defend the Incursion runners right to do what they do.

I laugh at all the people who whine about Incursions.
The "meanies won't let me play with them when I show up in a T1 fitted BC".
You don't have the skills or ISK to fit a proper Incursion ship? Welcome to Eve.

I don't have the skills or ISK to fly a super-cap. I should complain to CCP so no one can fly one if I can't.
I don't have the skills, time, or mindset to fly with badass corps like PL, who demand specific ship fits and skills. I should petition CCP to ban PL because of that.
I don't have the skills to fly a Hulk. I should petition CCP to dramatically lower the asteroid and ice belt contents.
I don't have the skills to fly a Marauder. I should petition CCP to wipe out L4 missions.


Oh, and while we are on the topic of "incursions are bad for the Eve economy", guess we should wipe out all wormhole activity. I mean, prior to Apochrypha, the ISK faucet known as L6 wormhole combat sites did not exist. Those guys pull in countless billions in a day. It is entirely irrelevant that they have invested countless ISK and skills into their ships, let alone the huge time investment in putting together a fleet or pilots who trust each other and fly the proper fleet complement.

Heck, while we are on the subject, we should wipe out ALL NPC bounties and mission loot/salvage. I mean, the NPC bounties alone are 81% of all PVE in the game. Think how quickly we could get the economy under control if we wiped out all NPC bounties, and the only way to generate ISK was from er.....well, OK, there would be no way to generate ISK in the game, but I have a moral objection to all those NPC bounty runners who are more efficient than me and make more than me. I should whine about that too.

Please CCP, any one who makes more ISK/hour than I do, please ban all their accounts. That would be the fairest thing and best for the game.

So Apperantly incursions are not the biggest ISK faucet, but then how come I keep on reading posts stating that it is and how it should be stopped...

Oh wait, only null alliances are saying that, while having the bigger ISK faucet...

GǪactually, no-one ever said that they were GÇö that's just a straw man incursion-defenders pull out to have something even remotely resembling a point (even though it's a fallacy).

Bounties have always been the largest faucet and no-one has ever claimed otherwise. The problem is that the economy was a bit out of whack already before incursions were introduced, and their addition made an already precarious situation worse for no good reason.

Moreover, no, it's not the null alliances saying that (so that's your second straw man in two sentences GÇö well done) GÇö they (and many others) are simply saying that the rewards from incursions are out of whack compared to the safety of highsec. Oh, and as for GÇ£having a bigger faucetGÇ¥, there are two things you could be referring to here, and both of them are probably wrong.

I defend the Incursion runners right to do what they do.

Oh, and while we are on the topic of "incursions are bad for the Eve economy", guess we should wipe out all wormhole activity. I mean, prior to Apochrypha, the ISK faucet known as L6 wormhole combat sites did not exist. Those guys pull in countless billions in a day.

As do I. What I object to is the current incursion model, not the entire mechanic. Cash payouts need to be tweaked and/or farming needs to be discouraged. Overall I think Incursion is a good expansion with good motives, it just needs some adjusting.



Bounties paid on sleepers since the release of Apocrypha: 0.00 isk.

The money made in wormholes comes from mining ore and acquiring parts to make strategic cruisers, and then selling either the raw materials or the finished products. They inject almost no cash into the system. If you don't understand the difference between wormhole profits and incursion profits, you don't need to be arguing economics at all.

Exactly the issue that Incursion-nerfers are upset about. Incursions came along and increased the ISK faucet flow without sinking more currency out of the game. How do we balance the faucet that is Incursions? Perhaps remove insurance payouts for ships worth mire than 1M ISK unless insurance has been bought

There are other issues with Incursions which is why we have the Vanguard-nerfing arguments, but the main issue with Incursions is that the ISK sink that was introduced with Incursions in the form of the CONCORD LP store was not enough to soak up all the ISK being generated

Simple fixes could include providing more LP with less ISK reward, for example, or reducing payouts while boosting salvage from Incursion Sanshas wrecks. This will not necessarily reduce the income potential of incursions, but will reduce the ISK faucet

More complex fixes will involve the entire economy. The catch is that the economy appears to be unstable at the moment due to Insursions injecting ISK that wasn't previously entering the game. A simple proof that Incursions are impacting the economy would be to turn them off for two months.

With the bounty injections remaining seemingly steady, but with the "new" ISK from Incursions reaching 33% of the total amount, one could conclude that the Incursion content itself is more open to grinding and inspires ISK creation.

CCP Diagoras has already released figures showing the average ISK made per character running Incursions is MANY MANY MANY MANY times what the average mission runner is pulling in, simply looking at the ISK.

So, incursions are not the big isk faucet. Bounties are.

I'm willing to bet the main reason why is the 23/7 nullsec bot ratters.

Oh wait, only null alliances are saying that, while having the bigger ISK faucet...

Even though Incursions are not the biggest ISK faucet they are a MUCH bigger driver of inflation than bounties in an apples to apples comparison.

The primary reason being that many people salvage the rats that produce bounties. This produces an amount of minerals or mods to partially offset the ISK being poured in to the game. Incursions produce large amounts of ISK but contribute zero minerals or mods to the game that would balance out some of the inflation.

Is this logic sound? If not, why not?

Even though Incursions are not the biggest ISK faucet they are a MUCH bigger driver of inflation than bounties in an apples to apples comparison.

The primary reason being that many people salvage the rats that produce bounties. This produces an amount of minerals or mods to partially offset the ISK being poured in to the game. Incursions produce large amounts of ISK but contribute zero minerals or mods to the game that would balance out some of the inflation.

Is this logic sound? If not, why not?

Even though Incursions are not the biggest ISK faucet they are a MUCH bigger driver of inflation than bounties in an apples to apples comparison.

The primary reason being that many people salvage the rats that produce bounties. This produces an amount of minerals or mods to partially offset the ISK being poured in to the game. Incursions produce large amounts of ISK but contribute zero minerals or mods to the game that would balance out some of the inflation.

Is this logic sound? If not, why not?

what about the isk generated from LP conversions to shiny things that get sold on the market?

and of course bounties are more isk in total, but unless you are running 8/10s and higher all the time you will almost certainly get richer doing incursions.

so really its manipulating the numbers for a weak troll

GǪactually, no-one ever said that they were GÇö that's just a straw man incursion-defenders pull out to have something even remotely resembling a point (even though it's a fallacy).

Bounties have always been the largest faucet and no-one has ever claimed otherwise. The problem is that the economy was a bit out of whack already before incursions were introduced, and their addition made an already precarious situation worse for no good reason.

Moreover, no, it's not the null alliances saying that (so that's your second straw man in two sentences GÇö well done) GÇö they (and many others) are simply saying that the rewards from incursions are out of whack compared to the safety of highsec. Oh, and as for GÇ£having a bigger faucetGÇ¥, there are two things you could be referring to here, and both of them are probably wrong.

Exactly the issue that Incursion-nerfers are upset about. Incursions came along and increased the ISK faucet flow without sinking more currency out of the game.

Isk Faucet and Isk Sink concerning different types of PVE.

1. Incursions generate quite a bit of isk for relatively small amount of people who run them in highsec. Many of these people don't really do much pvp and don't lose their ships very often. A lot of them don't really use or bother with the LP store, hence the isk sink from the LP store is not really effective at controlling the isk faucet.

2. Mission Running isk/hr is mostly generated by the Loyalty Store which requires lots of expensive faction tags along with isk to redeem the LP. The LP is really the only way to generate real profit with missions nowadays, making it much less of an effect.

3. Ratting in Null is mostly used to fuel PVP where billion and trillions are lost every day.

4. Wormhole space generates lot of isk, but at the expense of considerable investment and risk. To make profits you need to invest in a POS tower along with modules and months of fuel. Then you need a bunch of players who are willing to invest time and money to help with running the wormhole along with maintaining security. A Lot of time you spend in Wormhole space is mostly scanning, waiting, logistics and managing the POS. A lot of the isk generated in Wormhole space is usually kept in wormhole space as much of it is used to pay for the cost of fuel and ammo, for the players working there, and then ships and modules with PLEX to keep the account running. Last but not least there are players who will come to ruin your day. Profits and Infrastructure that you spents months building can all be destroyed within a day or two. Wormhole space works its a big Isk Faucet with a big Isk sink that I like to call the Black Hole.

Incursions don't really have an effective Isk Sink compared to other aspects of PVE and has relatively very low risk compared to equivalent ways of making profit.

I've never seen an incursion channel break 200 people, even with drive throughs that are forced to be in the channel untill they log out.

"ThereGÇÿs certainly a lot of money coming from Incursions.-á Incursion rewards in December amounted to 9.6 trillion ISK, which is an all time high, while the rewards in January and February were 9.0 and 8.7 trillion ISK respectively.-á ThatGÇÿs quite a bit of money entering the economy.-á However, Incursions are not the biggest ISK faucet, bounties are.-á Bounty prizes paid out in February totalled 33 trillion ISK."

That's an extra 10 trillion ISK that was not in the economy previously on a monthly basis. The 10 trillion ISK seems to be approximately 20% of the ISK Faucet economy ... so yeah, Incursions are having an effect.

The bounty system was here before Incursions.

No, that's incorrect. The massive jumps we see in terms of isk almost always come when we make adjustments to anomalies. The last change we did was pretty drastically increase the isk floor across the board on anomalies and the isk coming into the economy jumped after that.

I've never seen an incursion channel break 200 people, even with drive throughs that are forced to be in the channel untill they log out.

confirming that incursion runners didn't do any PvE during the 7.5 years before incursions were released.

.

Three vanguards per incursion. 6 sites per system. 11 per fleet. when there are more than 198 (- local residents) in Incursion local everybody is not getting paid. Unless there are a couple assault fleets and the occasional HG. Still <600 pilots making that bank at any given time. And with 6 fleets you WILL contest as the 6 sites don' t just pop up instantly.

You can ALWAYS make 50 mil an hour in raw ISK once you have an Incursion capable shiny, and use it to run missions instead.

You can SOMETIMES make 100 mil an hour running Incursions. Not all of the dreaded 66% can make all of that money all of the time, no matter how hard you try to hype it.

I make 500m isk an hour playing Eve Poker... should CCP nerf that?

Does your country have some internet law that disallows you from running incursions?
Does your corp or alliance disallow you from running incursions?

I personally have not run them for weeks now, since I can't commit the hours required to help a fleet. (Yeah, you can't jump in and out of Incursions like you can run missions or rat in belts.), but I defend the Incursion runners right to do what they do.

I laugh at all the people who whine about Incursions.
The "meanies won't let me play with them when I show up in a T1 fitted BC".
You don't have the skills or ISK to fit a proper Incursion ship? Welcome to Eve.

I don't have the skills or ISK to fly a super-cap. I should complain to CCP so no one can fly one if I can't.
I don't have the skills, time, or mindset to fly with badass corps like PL, who demand specific ship fits and skills. I should petition CCP to ban PL because of that.
I don't have the skills to fly a Hulk. I should petition CCP to dramatically lower the asteroid and ice belt contents.
I don't have the skills to fly a Marauder. I should petition CCP to wipe out L4 missions.


Oh, and while we are on the topic of "incursions are bad for the Eve economy", guess we should wipe out all wormhole activity. I mean, prior to Apochrypha, the ISK faucet known as L6 wormhole combat sites did not exist. Those guys pull in countless billions in a day. It is entirely irrelevant that they have invested countless ISK and skills into their ships, let alone the huge time investment in putting together a fleet or pilots who trust each other and fly the proper fleet complement.

Heck, while we are on the subject, we should wipe out ALL NPC bounties and mission loot/salvage. I mean, the NPC bounties alone are 81% of all PVE in the game. Think how quickly we could get the economy under control if we wiped out all NPC bounties, and the only way to generate ISK was from er.....well, OK, there would be no way to generate ISK in the game, but I have a moral objection to all those NPC bounty runners who are more efficient than me and make more than me. I should whine about that too.

Please CCP, any one who makes more ISK/hour than I do, please ban all their accounts. That would be the fairest thing and best for the game.

Stop explaining the truth to the trolls..

GǪand the truth of the matter is that incursions make for a massive ISK faucet that is completely out of proportion to how many are doing it and where they're done.

GǪand the truth of the matter is that incursions make for a massive ISK faucet that is completely out of proportion to how many are doing it and where they're done.

You want to ***** about out of porportion facets ***** about the Mineral/Catalyst faucet known as Tech Moons babe... that dwarfs Incursions by a long shot. Go fling your poo I mean goo at that feature working as intended

Your EVE Poker winnings aren't coming out of the magical ISK faucet.

Poker is zero sum. You win 500M ISK, someone (or some people) lost 500M ISK.

You want to biiiiiitch about out of porportion faucet that makes a few into super rich at the cost of the other 99.99% look at Mineral/Catalyst faucet known as Tech Moons babe..

Bounties arent a problem and never were and its not at all surprising they generate the most ISK. I think noone ever said otherwise. Incursions whereas are a problem, because they are totally out of proportion. A minimal number of players generating 1/3 of all bounty income on the server?
Thats a small bunch of suddenly VERY rich people. That is hurting the economy and not primarily bounty income and what is attached to it.

Bounties arent a problem and never were and its not at all surprising they generate the most ISK. I think noone ever said otherwise. Incursions whereas are a problem, because they are totally out of proportion. A minimal number of players generating 1/3 of all bounty income on the server?
Thats a small bunch of suddenly VERY rich people. That is hurting the economy and not primarily bounty income and what is attached to it.

What is really scarry is that ~9 Bil from Incursions, is on top of the ~33 Bil for bounties. That is an aditional ~9 Bil being pumped into the economy that is not getting taken out by very many sinks to it. That is a setup for rapid inflation.

quite stupid that 25% isk generated drop into 1% of eve population

Considering how risk-averse incursion fleets seem to be, it doesn't seem like a very hard thing to do (i've seen a 11-strong fleet with 3 logistics stand down because someone had a war dec from a 2 man corp with no online members, this caused an aggro timer to one of the logistics and the entire operation stood down for 15 minutes).

I can only wonder what declarations of war or sudden appearances by thrashers and tornados can do.

You mean those things that don't inject any ISK? Those things that require significant (and continuous) investments in manpower to acquire and keep running? Those things that exist exclusively in nullsec where they create wars and the losses of cubic kilometres worth of assets? Yeah, no. They're not really an issue for the economy.

Nice straw man though GÇö fits right in with the ridiculous straw man of the OP.

Considering how risk-averse incursion fleets seem to be, it doesn't seem like a very hard thing to do (i've seen a 11-strong fleet with 3 logistics stand down because someone had a war dec from a 2 man corp with no online members, this caused an aggro timer to one of the logistics and the entire operation stood down for 15 minutes).

I can only wonder what declarations of war or sudden appearances by thrashers and tornados can do.

quite stupid that 25% isk generated drop into 1% of eve population

Bounties arent a problem and never were and its not at all surprising they generate the most ISK. I think noone ever said otherwise. Incursions whereas are a problem, because they are totally out of proportion. A minimal number of players generating 1/3 of all bounty income on the server?
Thats a small bunch of suddenly VERY rich people. That is hurting the economy and not primarily bounty income and what is attached to it.

Correct the moon goo faucet. Don't tell me it is not a faucet that is not lining the wallets of a very few .
You are telling me there are not considerable investments in man hours devoted to incursion running?
I often fly 6 billion ISK ships in certain fleets & am surrounded by man ships that cost the same or more... 20-80 man fleets.
It required alot of work to get these fleets running hunny.
YOU ARE TELLING ME MOON GOO IS NOT AN ISSUE FOR THE ECONOMY?!?!?! YOUR BS IS PILED SKY HIGH IN THAT STATEMENT GIRL

Moon goo doesn't create ISK, it merely moves it.

Moon Goo is used to create items & affects those items costs. It has a VERY real affect to the economy.
Are you going to tell me next that the cost of oil does not affect the economy?

GǪand the truth of the matter is that incursions make for a massive ISK faucet that is completely out of proportion to how many are doing it and where they're done.

In regards to MMOs in general PvE and cooperate PvE has been, is, and will be a rather sizeable part of any successful MMO, Eve included.

According to the latest devblog. (Correct me if I'm wrong here) More ISK came from bounties then incursions.

http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=9115

Mainly this quote...

"ThereGÇÿs certainly a lot of money coming from Incursions.-á Incursion rewards in December amounted to 9.6 trillion ISK, which is an all time high, while the rewards in January and February were 9.0 and 8.7 trillion ISK respectively.-á ThatGÇÿs quite a bit of money entering the economy.-á However, Incursions are not the biggest ISK faucet, bounties are.-á Bounty prizes paid out in February totalled 33 trillion ISK."

So Apperantly incursions are not the biggest ISK faucet, but then how come I keep on reading posts stating that it is and how it should be stopped...

Oh wait, only null alliances are saying that, while having the bigger ISK faucet...

Correct the moon goo faucet. Don't tell me it is not a faucet that is not lining the wallets of a very few .

You are telling me there are not considerable investments in man hours devoted to incursion running?

YOU ARE TELLING ME MOON GOO IS NOT AN ISSUE FOR THE ECONOMY?!?!?!

Incursions are done everywhere but wormhole space, and wormhole space injects more ISK than Incursions.

what happens now is the war decked doesn't get reps & dies... standing order for his stupidity for not reading my fleets MOTD.

I often fly 6 billion ISK ships in certain fleets

That's an extra 10 trillion ISK that was not in the economy previously on a monthly basis. The 10 trillion ISK seems to be approximately 20% of the ISK Faucet economy ... so yeah, Incursions are having an effect.

The bounty system was here before Incursions.

Seriously, either get a brain or admit that the whole incursion inflation thing was a story, a lie, a deception meant to catch simple minded people.

Oh look, another example of a live herpaderp, lol

not very good at understanding Economy are you?... Suggest maybe you dont comment on things you know nothing about?

If the people who are running incursions right now, were NOT running incursions, like, I dont know..BEFORE Incursions came out.... what do you think they would be doing?... nothing? Perhaps in your mind they are having a lovley cup of tea while taking screenshots of ships?... maybe you believe them all to be sat on their sofa in the captains quarters watching the screen?

Oh wait... you thought that before incursions people were running ship spinning contests? Because before incusions came out it never even crossed their mind to make any ISK what so ever...


Seriously, either get a brain or admit that the whole incursion inflation thing was a story, a lie, a deception meant to catch simple minded people.

That's why I added it to my sig. But jelly people are just blinded and see only what they want to see

Hey, don't come in here with your logic and well reasoned arguments, this is the EvE-O forums.

EDIT: Besides I like to watch the tinfoil hatters and sperge lords fling poo at each other.

I liked the lvl5 in hi sec more

[
First of all, no, it doesn't. It injects about Gàö the amount. Wspace is also 0.0, and thus deserve a higher payout, so even if it did, that would be kind of expected. More the to point, though, since you seem to be missing it, just like Darth here: how many people are running those wspace sweeps?

[
Compared to keeping a profitable moon? Nope.

What economical issues are there with moon goo (aside from being a deflationary materials faucet)?

Incursioners spend many man hours & spend ALOT o ISK on ships & AMMO ( faction ammo at theat ). Compated to keeping a single profitable moon, yep

Incursioners spend many man hours & spend ALOT o ISK on ships & AMMO ( faction ammo at theat ). Compated to keeping a single profitable moon, yep
I can argue the deflationary minerals until 2011 were wrecking the economy as a matter of fact I'll start a thread concerning how deflation is worse then inflation by along shot

You got it mixed up babe Incursions inject 2/3 the amount of ISK in the form of blue loot here is my citation http://twostep4csm.blogspot.com/2012/03/its-econmony-stupid.html

Incursioners spend many man hours & spend ALOT o ISK on ships & AMMO ( faction ammo at theat ). Compated to keeping a single profitable moon, yep

I can argue the deflationary minerals until 2011 were wrecking the economy as a matter of fact I'll start a thread concerning how deflation is worse then inflation by along shot

If there are only a handful of people making gobs of isk from incursions, then it would *less* inflationary. There is only so much isk a person needs. That whole isk velocity thing the author of the blog went on about.

encourage spending the ISK people have hidden in their matresses.

Which is going to be pretty hard with all the promises/plans for iteration on content......at least until the specifics of those plans are known.

And how often has your 6 bill shiny been blown up?

ONCE AGAIN I SEE NO NUMBERS ON BLUE LOOT IN THAT CITATION MY CITATION HAD IT

Blue loot [is] bring[ing] in more ISK [and is] therefore a [bigger] ISK [faucet]

I had a shiney 6 billion ship blow up last month but I was lucky & recovered 1/2 of it in loot from my fleet mates...

Fix your keyboard and read it again. Not necessarily in that order, but do both. Oh, andGǪ
GǪeven with all that angrish, you're still missing the point. So, read my citation and my post again, and fix your keyboard.
So a lot less than the cost of acquiring and keeping a moon safe.

[
You could. Do you have any shred of evidence? Or, to restate the question since you didn't actually answer it: what economical issues are there with moon goo?

I see what you are talking about a single quote of the sleeper componets OF THE BLUE LOOT... that number was not a single month but over an entire year? It does not say.

The quote I have is of the same period of time yours is not I am assuming because the number is not compared to the same number in time with Incursion

I have seen numbers that show a 100% increase in cost of techtanium forgot the period time too... I don't have it with me so I may be wrong... Got any info (citations please) or agraph on the price of tech goo over the last 7 years?

I read your citation & my citations your seems to by over the month of Janurary & mine February? why did blue loot change 3 trillion ISK in 1 month?

I'm a little confused (and apologize for being so), but how do WHs bring in any isk to the economy? I've never seen a single bounty... only been up to C4 though.

I had a shiney 6 billion ship blow up last month but I was lucky & recovered 1/2 of it in loot from my fleet mates... when was the last shiney worth 6 billion+ blew up on you?

Like I said earlier: most likely because it's kind of a GÇ£seasonalGÇ¥ thing GÇö it's not a constant flow out of wspace, but something the big collectors (the ones creating enough volume to make a difference) gather up for a month or three in the POS until it's time to pack the Orca / Freighter / whatever to the gills and jump it out for a selling spree.

Still 1 month that much a difference?

And how often does that happen? I think there's a lot more lost defending moons in a week than you lost in one ship a month ago. I doubt you lose that much that often.

Whether I've lost a pimped out shiny is irrelevant, I'm not the one using strawman arguments by pointing at moon goo as an isk faucet when it's actually not, it's a mineral faucet.

[snip]

I had a shiney 6 billion ship blow up last month but I was lucky & recovered 1/2 of it in loot from my fleet mates... when was the last shiney worth 6 billion+ blew up on you?

Oh man LEAD PAINT CHIPS are DELICIOUS