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Tank CEO
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Posted - 2004.05.24 02:45:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Tank CEO on 24/05/2004 02:46:51
First off, I beleive that this subject requires its own topic.
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Ok now, currently on chaos, missiles have been given a new feature - arming time..
Cruise missiles - 4 Second Arming time - 6.5km Velocity
Torpedo's - 12 Second Arming time - 1km Veleocity
Now in my opinion, this is a very bad move. Heres why.
Taking the stock attributes of the missiles... Cruiser missiles will require 26km to arm, so this means you will have to be 26km or greater for the missile to explode and damage the target, as goes for the torpedo, it requires 12km or greater to arm and damage the target. So anything below 12km your just screwed, you wont be able to hit, you wont be able to do nothing but just sit there.
So then it comes to mind, what about a Megathron coming with MWD and blasters? Say good bye to the Raven Missile boat, it wont have a chance. Possibly anything that gets below that range, the raven won't do any damage at all!
So compare it to a turret? The turret can hit the target at its optimal and below just fine if its a battleship. A 1400mm can hit another battleship when its 1km away from it.
Another reason why this new feature will not work and is a bad move is because who the hell would want to upgrade their battleship skills and the new upcoming velocity skill? Increased velocity means you will have to be further away from your target so that the missile is given enough time to arm. I mean, what about the agility skill, how will that effect missiles now? Is that going to be a added feature also, heck, we wont be able to hit anything, we would be worse then a cruiser, the other race battleships will be pointing and laughing at us.
My suggestion is to remove this bad idea not thought threw feature. My solution is to have missiles be based on flight time and agility. Missiles should NOT have a problem hitting a Battleship no matter what. You are going to technical with the missile, which is fine, I like challenges and its cool that you would have to be tactically smart to use em, but this is just not wise to have a arming time, realistically, a missile is already armed when its put into the launcher.
So recap on things.
- Remove Arming time
- Implement possibly better or worse flight time, (I honestly liked the chosen flight time for the cruise and torps ( I think it was like 30 seconds for cruise missiles to promote long range missile combat and 12 seconds for the torpedo's to promote close range missile combat)
- Implement agility changes so that it can better balance with turrets on hitting and damaging frigates/cruisers.
If this arming time stays in, I hope tomb has something up his sleeve.  If not, bye bye my beautiful Raven. In missiles current state, they suck with this arming time, plain n simple
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Aronis Contar
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Posted - 2004.05.24 02:53:00 -
[2]
Aha, whoa 
What happens if you fire the missile at someone too close? It won't track the target, or just won't explode when it hits?
Ciao, Aronis!
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2004.05.24 02:53:00 -
[3]
Can't get on Chaos right now - what's the arming for light missiles and rockets?
"As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade" |
XuevranLed
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Posted - 2004.05.24 02:56:00 -
[4]
I hope you can still explode other people's pre-armed ordinance. Ive always wanted to get right up on a torper and smartbomb when he shoots one off 
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Meridius
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Posted - 2004.05.24 03:29:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Meridius on 24/05/2004 03:32:34
Agree.
I think the arming time is a sloppy way of preventing torps/cruise from hitting frigates at close range.
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Griffin Smith
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Posted - 2004.05.24 04:38:00 -
[6]
on the other hand, submarines have and arming distance for safe use of torps, maybe u should have an arming range gate like the turrents have, a min range to hit and a max range to hit, change the skill to increase the range gate from say 20km to start, with a 5km arming distance(for large missiles, torps)to 50km being the range for the missile to engadge its target.
off topic: also fof missiles should have a sensor strength and u should be able to jam it with onboard jammers, then be able to switch the launcher(and hence the missiles) to home on jam and other mods(maybe have med slot mods that alow u to switch the homeing mode of the missiles)
Sorry just thinking out loud what do u think?
All that is truely urs, is whats in ur head. |
Darkwolf
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Posted - 2004.05.24 04:59:00 -
[7]
What in the hell?
Arming time?
TOMB! You're making too many changes at once, ffs! Without adequate testing! Again!
Christ. This is getting insane...
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Jarjar
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Posted - 2004.05.24 05:32:00 -
[8]
I agree 100%. For the first time ever, I think a change is retarded.
A raven with cruise missiles will have a minimum range of ABOUT 43KM with decent speed skills (standard missiles lvl4, caldari battleship lvl4).
Talk about screwing missile users over completely.
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Zarquon Beeblebrox
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Posted - 2004.05.24 06:21:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Zarquon Beeblebrox on 24/05/2004 06:23:09
Im totaly agreed whith Tank CEO here. I picked caldari as my race. Im not intending to train other bs skills. Iv trained my skills perfectly for caldari ships. Im a pirate, i dont do fleet battle. Im a lone wolf and need to be able to take on, one and two and three bs alone.
So im there in my raven, or scorp dont matter. And i cant do jack ****.
No this is not good and if it comes tru i need to be removed all my skills and given all my skill points so i can put them on what skills i want.
--
Lady Beeblebrox
Teddybears movies
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Nightfang
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Posted - 2004.05.24 06:45:00 -
[10]
Too many changes put into a single patch. The game will be completely screwed...
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Judicator
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Posted - 2004.05.24 06:50:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Judicator on 24/05/2004 06:54:20
They should arm themself once they reach a certain distance from whomever launched them, not after a set amount of time.
Edit:
But IMO the change suck immensly. This change is a decree from TomB to all Caldari users to bend over and take it up the [censored].
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Jexter
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Posted - 2004.05.24 07:27:00 -
[12]
I agree, this arming feature seems not necessary, especially not now with all these changes coming in.
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Discorporation
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Posted - 2004.05.24 07:36:00 -
[13]
Arming time si bad, m'kay?
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Altai Saker
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Posted - 2004.05.24 07:50:00 -
[14]
Looks like this change is going to seriously screw over lone missile boats, now I don't use missile boats so I just want to say "Hooray good changes" but I seriously suggest you rethink that change.
Maybe since MWD's are getting nerfed this is the devs way of giving blaster boats a fighting chance.
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Kalarin
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Posted - 2004.05.24 07:53:00 -
[15]
I think - this change is OK. Before - cruisers and frigs\interceptors can't survive. Also - missile ships was been overpowered (guys which I know try to battle on Chaos - in 1 to 1 combat Raven with 4x Siedge and 2x Cruise Launhers kill ANY other BS without of losting shield and reloading launchers in 100% cases). Now other ships has a chance :) and Raven - only long range missile BS. But I still thinking - missile speed must be lowered or we will have completely no defence from cruise missiles.
And 1400mm guns CAN't hit another ship in close range. From DEV BLOB :
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Projectile Artillery turrets have had their falloff reduced by half as falloff is much more significant in the new system.
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Also - missiles do 100% damage ALL time and at ALL range (now - no) and can't miss. Can u compare with 1400mm? 1400mm has very slow RoF and can miss or do very low damage some times.
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Jarjar
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Posted - 2004.05.24 08:00:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Jarjar on 24/05/2004 08:01:22
Doesn't matter. Missiles will be impossible to use.
Caldari = very screwed
Minmatar = pretty much very screwed
Gallente = not so screwed
Amarr = what? missiles? (except for the apoc/inquisitor)
This NEEDS to go imho.
Edit: I agree with nightfang btw.
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Nightfang
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Posted - 2004.05.24 08:00:00 -
[17]
1) Falloff has nothing to do with turrets being able to not hit on close range.
2) If this is to save frigates and interceptors: Bad Call!! Fix missile agility instead! Temporary first-aid solutions ruin the game completely!
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XpoHoc
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Posted - 2004.05.24 08:05:00 -
[18]
It was a nice joke when tried my Raven against a corp m8's Megathron. I felt like it's April again.
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Hellek
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Posted - 2004.05.24 08:08:00 -
[19]
Well, on one handside, arming time is okay, as i.e. Lasers also don't have anything that can hit on closerange (dual heavy pulse still does not have enough tracking to hit a blasterthron that orbits you), but on the other side, all other ships (Megathron, Tempest, Apoc) can mount Blasters/800mm as shortrange guns, the Raven, due to lack of grid, can't mount any shortrange guns at all.
Maybe introducing a special shortrange missile without arming time, but which can only go for 4km and has a rather bad agility (so that it can't hit frigs) would be a solution.
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DREAMWORKS
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Posted - 2004.05.24 08:11:00 -
[20]
The new patch doesnt make a 1400mm hit 1km away anymore, hell at 20 moving at max NORMAL speed around a stopped ship the hits were 0.
__________________________
http://www.nin.com/visuals/thtf_hi.html |
Nightfang
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Posted - 2004.05.24 08:12:00 -
[21]
A "good" spinoff if they introduce this would be that it forces Caldari to go long range only, thus making the Gallente the EW kings they wanted them to be. No use carrying webbers and warps scramblers on a ship which can't fight short range, no matter how many medium slots they've got...
I still think these are bad changes though! Make real fixes instead, even though they take longer!
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Claus
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Posted - 2004.05.24 08:30:00 -
[22]
Sounds like a good change but a bit over-done for the cruise-missiles.
Large guns do not work at a close range (except when the target doesn't move much) -- why should the large missiles work at close range?
Also, it helps out the cruisers which surely is welcome.
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You have to go out of your mind from time to time to stay sane. |
Nightfang
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Posted - 2004.05.24 08:36:00 -
[23]
What large turret can never hit a target at 26km and/or below?
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Jexter
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Posted - 2004.05.24 08:41:00 -
[24]
 Originally by: Claus
Large guns do not work at a close range (except when the target doesn't move much) -- why should the large missiles work at close range?
Large Blasters and 800mm work at close range and do huge damage. So do long range large guns vs a Battleship if it doesn't move too fast. Good luck taking down your friendly Blasterthron with heavy, light missiles and rockets since you cannot use the cruises and torpedoes because of arming time.
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ErrorS
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Posted - 2004.05.24 08:49:00 -
[25]
torpedos shouldnt have an arming time. they should be close range hard hitting weapons for BS vs. BS battles. Cruise should be long range good damage(but less then torpedo) for BS vs. BS. torpedos should barely be able to turn.. launchers should be like turrets (one for each side of the ship). etc
not sure about arming but i dont like torpedos being 12km+. cruise not being armed until extreme range sounds great though.
________
I'm strict Caldari
"The grass is always greener on the other side" - Maybe they're not as uber as you think?
-ErrorS |
ErrorS
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Posted - 2004.05.24 08:51:00 -
[26]
its also a little messed up that the better your skills are with cruise missles, the more range you have to put between you and another ship. doesnt make much sense at all :\
________
I'm strict Caldari
"The grass is always greener on the other side" - Maybe they're not as uber as you think?
-ErrorS |
KIAEddZ
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Posted - 2004.05.24 08:52:00 -
[27]
I'm assuming this is just testing, and a look at an idea. If your gonna using arming, it should arm itself at a distance from the Launching craft, and not attempt to strike the target until its fully armed, but that in itself has massive flaws. This suggested change is simply not thought through, and if it makes the patch, someone somewhere, has seriously lost the plot.
(Std Missiles 5 and Caldari BS 5, are gonna quite seriously hurt  )
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=176347
www.kia-corp.co.uk/killboard
CEO of KIA Corp - Been doing it for the Laydeez since 1993, now we i |
Claus
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Posted - 2004.05.24 10:40:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Claus on 24/05/2004 10:46:56
Originally by: Nightfang
What large turret can never hit a target at 26km and/or below?
They have big problems hitting anything fast (as you know). With missiles, if you want to hit something close then just reload with something smaller. This still leaves missile-users with more flexibility than turret-users.
Edit: I do agree that 26km is too much -- especially considering speed-increasing skills.
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You have to go out of your mind from time to time to stay sane. |
Claus
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Posted - 2004.05.24 10:43:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Jexter
Originally by: Claus
Large guns do not work at a close range (except when the target doesn't move much) -- why should the large missiles work at close range?
Large Blasters and 800mm work at close range and do huge damage. So do long range large guns vs a Battleship if it doesn't move too fast. Good luck taking down your friendly Blasterthron with heavy, light missiles and rockets since you cannot use the cruises and torpedoes because of arming time.
Perhaps missile users then need to fit some short-range guns? Why should cruise-missiles be both short- and long-range (excluding the fligth time issue)?
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You have to go out of your mind from time to time to stay sane. |
Jarjar
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Posted - 2004.05.24 11:01:00 -
[30]
It's not just "some". Even if a Raven fits 4 close range guns (as many as possible) and 4 launchers that allow close-range LOW-damage missiles, it won't stand a CHANCE against a real close range ship.
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