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crazychimp
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Posted - 2004.05.25 12:49:00 -
[151]
 Originally by: TornSoul
2) Moving part of the pot to round 29 is fully my initiative.
I simply seized the oppertunity as 1) was happening anyway, to also do 2).
Do at least read up a bit, before accusing me of putting responsability on others for things I've done.
[quote
flame away
And Wtf gives you the ability to do this? When's your ban coming for scamming, soon I hope.
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Fingon
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Posted - 2004.05.25 12:50:00 -
[152]
The only thing I really want to know is why the original tickets for round 27 will not be used in the drawing of round 29 where you are handing out the second half of the 3.8B pot you will still have people buying tickets in round 28 and 29 and this money will end up in round 30 since you already have the price money (3.5B) for round 28 and 29 that means every single isk coming in from ticket sales in round 28 and 29 will go into the pot in round 30 plus the 300m surplus from the original 3.8B
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Sitar
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Posted - 2004.05.25 12:52:00 -
[153]
I might be off a bit in my thinking but these are my thoughts about the why. I put in my 1 mil isk at the chance to win the bulk. I do understand the CCP changed the rules, this I understand. The amount I entered in 27 and 28 whould put me in competition with others that have also entered in said lottery for the amount collected. As 29 rolls around someone who did not enter in 27 and 28 enters giving them a chance to win money they have no right to. Now i have to enter and the competitors have changed. I know that future lottery chances might be a bit better but that is not the issue.
Questions:
1) Can you say what rules exactly CCP inforced?
2) What you rules you implamented on your own?
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Ivresse
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Posted - 2004.05.25 12:56:00 -
[154]
For gods sake, don't some people look to the future or are they all just 'I WANT IT ALL NOW!'?
Let's see how this all works out in terms of the future, shall we? A sort of 'Sliding Doors' look at things...
The Apocalypse draw brought in about 3 BILLION ISK's worth of prize money. There are two choices, either give the money all at once in one event, or seperate them over multiple events, with the top prize being 1 billion.
1st choice one. Lots of money given away in one event. A bit more money comes in but probably not as much as it was for the battleship event. The events that give prize money of 1 billion is over in 1, maybe 2 weeks. What happens? The Prize money goes back to the 50mill guarantee, and not as many people will participate in it because, let's face it, 50 mill is a hell of a lot less than 1 billion. So after all this, the chance of winning over 1 billion is gone, and what fun is there in that?
Now we look at what happens with this split. A lot of People think 'Bloody hell, 1 billion ISK', and pay for tickets. One guy gets the billion. The other people think, 'darn, I didn't win, but because they split the money, it's a 1 billion prize again! I'll try it again next draw'. So they spend about 5 mill each on that draw, and BIG's prize coffers go up even more than they would if they had given the money away all at once in the last event. The draw happens, one guy wins. People think 'Damn, I lost again, but since loads of people signed up to the chance of winning a billion ISK, there's another billion ISK draw next week, I'm signing up to that!'. So next week, there's another draw, lots of money come in. The prize draws will steadily go down, but the high prize draw offers will last a hell of a lot longer than with the first option. Either way, the community benefits from it.
Why do these idiots with this 'I want it all now!' attitude think it's better giving it all away now and lose the glamour and the excitement that BIG generates after a couple of weeks. If I was given two or three battleships to give away in my DUI Racing events, I sure as hell wouldn't give them all away in one race, so why should BIG give all the money away in one prize draw??
Think about the future next time, people, not about your present situation all the time, huh?
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ricko mortis
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Posted - 2004.05.25 13:01:00 -
[155]
Well I seen your replys and all I can say is what alot of bull.
lets face it Tornsoul the community has spoken split the 3.8 billion in round 28 as was supposed to happen and stop all this crap.
It's really feeling like " It's my way or the highway attitude from Tornsoul "
Your origonal post as regards splitting the pot and players asking to split the pot has about 7 players asking to split the pot over a couple of draws. So far on this tread about 100 players have said no to split the pot over different draws. Now get with the program Tornsoul and stop the crap and give out the 3.8 billion in round 28 or get Bigs good reputation trashed in the world of eve.
I think this ends this the players are right your wrong deal with it. Dont SCAM us.
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TornSoul
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Posted - 2004.05.25 13:01:00 -
[156]
Originally by: crazychimp
Originally by: TornSoul
2) Moving part of the pot to round 29 is fully my initiative.
I simply seized the oppertunity as 1) was happening anyway, to also do 2).
Do at least read up a bit, before accusing me of putting responsability on others for things I've done.
[quote
flame away
And Wtf gives you the ability to do this? When's your ban coming for scamming, soon I hope.
Thats too easy.
If we for one second dis-regard that CCP is involved in this round, an as such has stated we cant take as much as one ISK (which we are not anyhow))
At any time during the past year I have 'had the ability' to simply pocket the ISK at any time I had felt like it (or do whatever else I felt like with it). And no, that would not had gotten me banned.
Guess what - I havent.
Every single ISK has been paid out again - and more (the lottery is in red for crying out loud.)
Why havent I done this?
Because, belive it or not (and I doubt you do) I actually care about this community (well 99% or so of them anyhow)
I'm not constantly looking out for #1.
BIG Lottery
[u |
Erika Gracilus
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Posted - 2004.05.25 13:03:00 -
[157]
Originally by: TornSoul
Edited by: TornSoul on 25/05/2004 12:08:18
My argument is (assuming the max prize is capped at 1 billion):
Even if all 3.8 Billion where paid out in 28, the maximum prize you (aka any one individual) could win would be 1 billion (top prize is capped to this)
Lets math. With new CAP changes (and I welcomes it), 1.75B isk POT can be devided between 1.75 persons. 3.5B isks can be devided between 3.5 ppls. Do you see the difference before and after? Or you still says in total nothing changed? 1.75 from 4000 ticket byuers and 3.5 from 4000 ticket byuers? The fraud is that you selling tickets for hole pot twice! If that not an arguement for you, hope that will be arguemnt for CCP. Petitioned as a scam
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crazychimp
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Posted - 2004.05.25 13:04:00 -
[158]
I believe you care, but then why arent you listening?
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TornSoul
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Posted - 2004.05.25 13:07:00 -
[159]
Originally by: ricko mortis
It's really feeling like " It's my way or the highway attitude from Tornsoul "
And your attitude is what excactly?
Quote:
So far on this tread about 100 players have said no to split the pot over different draws
I dare you to list them.
Fact - not fiction please. Or you can't be expected to be taken serious.
BIG Lottery
[u |
crazychimp
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Posted - 2004.05.25 13:08:00 -
[160]
Further CCP may change rules, they mention this in the EULA, but their the Devs, I can accpet their changes. But not yours.
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TornSoul
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Posted - 2004.05.25 13:09:00 -
[161]
Originally by: Ivresse
For gods sake, don't some people look to the future or are they all just 'I WANT IT ALL NOW!'?
Originally by: Ivresse
Think about the future next time, people, not about your present situation all the time, huh?
What I've been trying to say all along....
And the middle of your post that I did not quote - I've been using the excact same arguments over and over and over as well....
Thank you.
BIG Lottery
[u |
Deloup Drakar
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Posted - 2004.05.25 13:12:00 -
[162]
Man, this is the downside of having 4,000+ ppl take part of a lottery AND have the ability to offer feedback on a forum aobut it.
The number of sore loosers is staggering. You had practically a 0.02% chance of winning per character you bet with since almost EVERYBODY bet the same ammount.
Simple solution to all your 7yr old loosers out there. Don't participate in the BIG lotto anymore if you don't like how this one went off. The people that can understand simple concepts will continue on with their life while your just crying your little eyes out that ou lost.
~points to a cookie~
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Geller
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Posted - 2004.05.25 13:13:00 -
[163]
Originally by: TornSoul
Shame on you - Thats not how to leave a debate you no longer percieve as having a chance of 'winning'.
TornSoul, I would have thought you would have been happy to let me drop this. I cannot percieve what you gain by forcing me to continue making my case, especially since you continue to ignore any moral implications of using other peoples money without their concent. You also continue to ignore the arguements explaining why a pot of 1.75 Billion is significantly different to a pot of 3.8 Billion.
Originally by: TornSoul
Now youre insinuating that there must be something 'wrong' with everything else BIG is involved in (cant be trusted), just because you dont approve of how we've dealt with the lottery.
No. I was not insinuating anything. I was stating that in my experience the BIG Corporation goes back on its word. As proof of this statement I offer some quotes from (#27SE) BIG Games Newsletter : The BIG Lottery 1 Year Anniversary
Originally by: TornSoul
Special rules for the BIG Lottery 1 Year Anniversary round (#27):
...
The implication of this is - That should you (somehow) have happened to buy more than the allowed 1000 tickets, all is not lost - As you'll simply automatically get entered into the next round (#28) for the full amount, for a chance of winning the ISK pot of that round.
...
This time we declare beforehand, that we will not take our 10% administration fee for the rounds #27 (which would be impossiblw regardless) and round #28.
You will note that there is no reference to a chance of winning 45% of the ISK pot of that round.
I guess the second statement is true (but you have to read it very literally). It states you wont take a 10% admininstation fee. Most of us just presumed that ment you wouldnt take a 54% administration fee either.
Geller
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Ivresse
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Posted - 2004.05.25 13:14:00 -
[164]
Originally by: crazychimp
Further CCP may change rules, they mention this in the EULA, but their the Devs, I can accpet their changes. But not yours.
Right, and since when has that stopped people complaining and whining about changes that CCP make like you guys are doing now?
Same rule again: 'You can always please some of the people some of the time, often please some of the people all of the time, occasionally please all of the people some of the time, but you can NEVER please all of the people all of the time...'
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NoNamium
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Posted - 2004.05.25 13:15:00 -
[165]
Originally by: TornSoul
Originally by: crazychimp
Originally by: TornSoul
2) Moving part of the pot to round 29 is fully my initiative.
I simply seized the oppertunity as 1) was happening anyway, to also do 2).
Do at least read up a bit, before accusing me of putting responsability on others for things I've done.
[quote
flame away
And Wtf gives you the ability to do this? When's your ban coming for scamming, soon I hope.
Thats too easy.
If we for one second dis-regard that CCP is involved in this round, an as such has stated we cant take as much as one ISK (which we are not anyhow))
At any time during the past year I have 'had the ability' to simply pocket the ISK at any time I had felt like it (or do whatever else I felt like with it). And no, that would not had gotten me banned.
Guess what - I havent.
Every single ISK has been paid out again - and more (the lottery is in red for crying out loud.)
Why havent I done this?
Because, belive it or not (and I doubt you do) I actually care about this community (well 99% or so of them anyhow)
I'm not constantly looking out for #1.
Yup, this is sure to inspire confidence in BIG
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Erika Gracilus
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Posted - 2004.05.25 13:20:00 -
[166]
Originally by: Ivresse
For gods sake, don't some people look to the future
future fruads? no thanks. Dont wanna see when CAP is set to 100M per person and total pot worth billions would be split by X billions isk/(100M isk per peson * set number of prizes)= Y rounds. and during this Y rounds u`ll have to byu new tickets, while POT for this Y rounds ALREADY financed. Damn, I dont need money from these lotteries. If I would i`ld be constant participant of BIG Loterry. But as financial analyst I cannt pass by this pyramid without pointing this out. There is only one question left uncleared to me: do BIG realize that they are building or not?
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TornSoul
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Posted - 2004.05.25 13:20:00 -
[167]
Originally by: NoNamium
Originally by: TornSoul
Because, belive it or not (and I doubt you do) I actually care about this community (well 99% or so of them anyhow)
I'm not constantly looking out for #1.
Yup, this is sure to inspire confidence in BIG
For those that understands the sincerity behind the above - Yes.
BIG Lottery
[u |
Dr Scott
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Posted - 2004.05.25 13:21:00 -
[168]
To make it simple:
I do not accept the change of the rules (was: in round #28 you get the chance of running away with the *combined* sum of ISK put into the BIG Lottery pot, for rounds #27 and #28 )
Because of these changes i want that BIG refunds my money, i did not want take part in round 28 of the BIG Lottery under the new rules.
Why? Because one BIG reason for me was the return of investment (or value of ticket)
Dr Scott
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ricko mortis
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Posted - 2004.05.25 13:23:00 -
[169]
Quote:
And your attitude is what excactly?
My attitude is simple I paid my million you scammed me by changing the rules plain and simple even you should be able to see this. I paid 1 million to win a imperial apoc and the isk generated by ticket sales, I am not been allowed to do this, now I can only win 45% of the isk generated by ticket sales. This is not the agreement I entered into by sending you my million isk, how hard is it for you to see this?
Quote:
I dare you to list them.
Fact - not fiction please. Or you can't be expected to be taken serious.
Have you even read this tread? nuff said.
My god tornsoul your like a 12 year old kid so far on this tread your right I'm wrong ect.
your just argueing and argueing and trying to come up with more creative ways to justify changing the rules and scamming the players. As said allready get with the program, the players have said they are not happy now deal with it and stop the bull.
Why not just put it in Black and White that you are changing the rules and do not really care about what we say as regards it. You have made your choice and its that way or no way.
And you still have not answered me as regards soon as I can only win half the pot do I get half my isk back. I don't expect a answer from you on it, as it might incriminate you more as someone who is just trying to Scam us.
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FraNtik
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Posted - 2004.05.25 13:24:00 -
[170]
Edited by: FraNtik on 25/05/2004 13:27:31
Can you imagine what would happen if the pot is not splitted?
Some alt or noob player wins 4Billion isk (4,000,000,000 isk) in just one draw.
What then? Same people whinning about pot being splitted would whine about giving such *huge* amount to one *single* person 
And of course, the word SCAM would be written many times in this forum.
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FA's Bloodhound
"You can warp, but you can't hide" |
TornSoul
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Posted - 2004.05.25 13:24:00 -
[171]
Belive it or not I actually care about this community (well 99% or so of them anyhow)
I'm not constantly looking out for #1.
I have nothing further to add.
BIG Lottery
[u |
Fruny
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Posted - 2004.05.25 13:26:00 -
[172]
@TornSoul
What was your (BIGs) agreement with CCP for the ship auction and proceeds from the ship auction?
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Jebba IV
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Posted - 2004.05.25 13:26:00 -
[173]
ill just say it again.....why not make 6 prizes the next lottery and everybody is happy
6 prizes who all add up to 3.8 billion i think it was
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Ivresse
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Posted - 2004.05.25 13:29:00 -
[174]
Originally by: Dr Scott
Why? Because one BIG reason for me was the return of investment (or value of ticket)
What 'Return of investment'? Placing your money on a lottery isn't an investment, it's a GAMBLE! You don't invest your money on the lottery in order to make a living on it, you GAMBLE on it! The chances of you winning anything in the lottery are slim as hell, so what the hell does it matter what the prize fund is and when it's done, chances are you're going to lose the money you spent anyway?
Besides, this isn't a product, it's a service, so refunds aren't elligible here.
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ricko mortis
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Posted - 2004.05.25 13:29:00 -
[175]
Originally by: TornSoul
Belive it or not I actually care about this community (well 99% or so of them anyhow)
I'm not constantly looking out for #1.
I have nothing further to add.
How easy was that. Can't take the heat get out of the kitchen. Get the hell out of Dodge.
That was a very creative last post, you are going to bury your head in the sand and hope this all go's away, how childish. Admit your wrong and made a mistake and deal with it.
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Dubi
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Posted - 2004.05.25 13:30:00 -
[176]
The Problem is simply not the 28th lottery it's the 29th. why because of the fact that for the 28th lottery we have 3.8million tickers. But for 29th lottery we don't know how many tickers will be sold. If BIG Lottery where sure to get in 1.750bil again to keep the lottery going there would really be no problem.
But now the problem is that I can participate in the 28th lottery I have my 1k tickers and have 1/4000 to win. if this big plan Tornsoul has fails and people don't wana play with BIG and they only get in 1billion isk. the persons participating that time will have 1/1000 to win the same amount of cash that I now have 1/4000 chance too win.
Great for the ones participating in the 29th lottery and if enough participat it will work out and Tornsouls math will work.
Quote:
So far *only* 12 guys are against new pot split rules.
So 12 out of >4,000 ticket buyers , what are your odds?
That wasn't really a smart post since there was earlier stated that 9 people posted for the split of the pot and 3 was against it and then Tornsouls answer was simply you can't judge on that because not everyone are going to speak up. and once again the same aplies.
Quote:
The main goal and the reason for making this change : For the long term betterment of
the community - As this change hopefully will mean huge prizes to be paid for some time to come.
Thats the *only* reason for doing this.
Thats the *only* reason why I've spend an entire night and then some, trying to explain
why (I believe) this change is a Good Thing
Hopefully yes but you cannot be sure it will and you are gambling with isk that isn't yours. I'm not greedy I participated to get a chance to win I didn't expect to win. The Point is that you are giving away money to other people that isn't yours to give.
And for some reson people losses faith in big and you only get in 500mil isk in sold tickes and the guys entering that lottery will have 1/500 chance to win for the same amount of isk as I but I got a 1/4000 chance. If this had been stated before hand it wouldn't have been an issue.
And considering the going rate for isk on ebay is something around 100mil for 80$ or something you have taken about 1680$ from some people and are going to give it too someone else. you are lucky that koreans haven't started playing this game yet. In regards to the insident where someone had lost a lot of items and things from his online character and was to be refunded accoding to the court.
I don't have a case and I can't tell how many are disappointed at this chance but if we where to collect 1000signatures of players participating. you could end up being facing a court order. And yes I know this is a game but considering game items can be sold for real money. So you are in fact taking real Money from some people and giving to someone else.
And for the record I can't participate in the 29th lottery because of the fact that I'm a poor student without a job for the summer.
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Ivresse
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Posted - 2004.05.25 13:33:00 -
[177]
Ah smeg it Tornsoul, just refund them their money, ban them from entering the lottery and just keep my tickets active for the current draw, I'll be happy for 100% chance of winning 1 billion, even if everyone else isn't...
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Dubi
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Posted - 2004.05.25 13:34:00 -
[178]
Edited by: Dubi on 25/05/2004 13:35:42
lagg double post |
Laughter
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Posted - 2004.05.25 13:34:00 -
[179]
Originally by: ricko mortis
Originally by: TornSoul
I have nothing further to add.
How easy was that. Can't take the heat get out of the kitchen. Get the hell out of Dodge.
That was a very creative last post, you are going to bury your head in the sand and hope this all go's away, how childish. Admit your wrong and made a mistake and deal with it.
Hurrah, a game of argument chicken, the first person to just throw their hands up and realise that this is a pointless thread loses...
Of course, when it is one (or a few) against about a dozen it is pretty obvious who is going to run out of patience first.
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NoNamium
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Posted - 2004.05.25 13:42:00 -
[180]
Originally by: Laughter
Originally by: ricko mortis
Originally by: TornSoul
I have nothing further to add.
How easy was that. Can't take the heat get out of the kitchen. Get the hell out of Dodge.
That was a very creative last post, you are going to bury your head in the sand and hope this all go's away, how childish. Admit your wrong and made a mistake and deal with it.
Hurrah, a game of argument chicken, the first person to just throw their hands up and realise that this is a pointless thread loses...
Of course, when it is one (or a few) against about a dozen it is pretty obvious who is going to run out of patience first.
Laughter... how many ISK are BIG paying you for this?
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