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Xyzibit Caldari	Posted - 2008.07.20 23:20:00 - [1] since there are a few new missions in the pipeline for us i thought about giving ccp some feedback what they should definatly NOT look like... lets get this started ... the most annoying mission for me is... level 4 MASSIVE ATTACK P.S.: CCP you should rename it to massive fail...
syphurous Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2008.07.20 23:59:00 - [2] Anything to do with Drones. Most people will read this thinking it's part of my post, when its actually my sig :P
Kyrall Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.07.21 00:33:00 - [3] Anything against guristas, as I really hate jamming! It just gets so frustrating, it caused me to move from Caldari space to Amarr space a long time ago (well worth it!) and it's now easy to just turn down all guristas missions. Other than that, the level 4 Sansha's blockade mission (and other blockade missions from what I hear) has far too much ewar. I'm sure it's just to make it more challenging, but there's gotta be a more interesting way than that! - Originally by: Tamia Clant in a Jenny Spitfire thread There was a flame here, but it ran out of oxygen.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.07.21 03:04:00 - [4] Originally by: Xyzibit since there are a few new missions in the pipeline for us i thought about giving ccp some feedback what they should definatly NOT look like... lets get this started ... the most annoying mission for me is... level 4 MASSIVE ATTACK P.S.: CCP you should rename it to massive fail... agreed. the go get the quafe mission sucks too.
Zo5o Gallente Longcat is Long	Posted - 2008.07.21 03:24:00 - [5] Duo of Death, at least the version I run (blood raiders), is a bad joke. "You've got to kill a BS orbiting at 50km and loot his wreck, so let's making the looting part a lot easier by throwing six freaking spider drones at you as well." Timesink of death! Drone missions suck. Only way to get any value out of them is to loot them. More timesinkage.
KISOGOKU	Posted - 2008.07.21 05:03:00 - [6] You forgot smugler Interception ,it should be at same category with Massive Attack '' too many small targets '' Originally by: Xyzibit the most annoying mission for me is... level 4 MASSIVE ATTACK
Carniflex Caldari StarHunt Fallout Project	Posted - 2008.07.21 06:01:00 - [7] Massive 'fail' Attack is on the top of my list also. I am usually out of targets halfway to the next gate. That is with using 100 mn domination afterburner on my CNR. Silence the informant is relatively crappish also, as I will have to travel there approx 15 km without targets also. And ofc drones, but thats personal opinion as I usually do not loot thus they offer me crap rewards.
Mahke Carrion Crows	Posted - 2008.07.21 06:10:00 - [8] Due of Death Massive Attack Drones if too many jumps away, don't at all mind drones in system.
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2008.07.21 07:16:00 - [9] Edited by: Andrue on 21/07/2008 07:17:05 1.Rogue Slave Trader - should be one single mission although you can them like one anyway. - First part should have a shorter delay before the 'bonus' ship. - Would be an awesome missions if instead of a bonus ship you got a bonus fleet that surrounded you. 2.Recon 3/3 - This cries out for some ships to shoot. 3.Stop the Thief? The one that starts with an irritating drone room. -- (Sarcastic mission running veteran, 4+ years) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
MercenaryMuffin	Posted - 2008.07.21 07:46:00 - [10] Blockade, Blockade, Blockade. It takes WAY too long for the leader to show up, and having to kite 7 frakin' waves of pirates is such a pain in the ass. The rewards aren't nearly good enough, either. I end up skipping this one.

Pavlinka Minmatar	Posted - 2008.07.21 08:28:00 - [11] Massive Attack Duo of Death Smuggler Interception Silence he Informant/Stop the thief (that one with drones) Pavlinka & Pavlinecka
FT Diomedes Gallente Ductus Exemplo	Posted - 2008.07.21 08:47:00 - [12] These people who don't like The Blockade are crazy. It's one of the best missions by far. Massive Attack is a pretty freakin' annoying mission, but also very easy in a Dominix. ------------ Improvize. Adapt. Overcome.
Hugh Ruka Exploratio et Industria Morispatia	Posted - 2008.07.21 09:55:00 - [13] Duo of Death L4 Or if they would increase the payment to 1.5M+1.5M bonus, it would at least be worthwile. --- SIG --- CSM: your support is needed !
Ankhesentapemkah	Posted - 2008.07.21 10:02:00 - [14] MATERIALS FOR WAR PREPARATIONS. --- Thanks for all that supported me. Let me know if there's anything I can do for you.
Mother Drone Gallente	Posted - 2008.07.21 10:13:00 - [15] Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah MATERIALS FOR WAR PREPARATIONS. No this is a good one ... at least the lvl 5 version If people are complaining about missions they should add the pirate faction the missions are against. E.g. a "Blockade" versus Serpentis is totally different from Blood Raiders or Guristas. The same with "Duo of Death". m÷p and m÷p
Quardol	Posted - 2008.07.21 10:23:00 - [16] Originally by: syphurous Anything to do with Drones. signed
Arrs Grazznic Faster Than Light Logistics	Posted - 2008.07.21 10:39:00 - [17] Interesting thread... most comments are along the lines of "not profitable enough", "too many small targets", "too much of a time sink", "I want rewards without having to loot", etc. Come on guys, you do have to do some work for the large amounts of isk you can get from missions! For my part I really dislike any missions with large amounts of EWAR, but when I run them I get a wingman to pop the offending NPCs then carry on. Cheers, Arrs
Sanzorz Amarr EVEfan.dk	Posted - 2008.07.21 10:50:00 - [18] Massive Attack lvl 4 is indeed silly. There's no challenge and hardly any bounty or reason to do it. I often just decline it. Duo of Death lvl 4 - Meh, it's fast to do and the travelling time ain't bad when approaching the 2 battleships. Screw the spider drones as they are insta popped by your medium drones anyway. Cargo Delivery lvl 4 - I don't get the point of the mission, other than it's a run in with shuttle and back. Might aswell remove it as it's just a fast trigger for another storyline. The Blockade lvl 4 against Sansha - Bounties and everything is very nice no doubt, but if you do this in a gun boat, you can stay there on 2nd wave for a LONG time as you're constantly tracking distrupted. I had my optimal range on TACHYONS down to 10km >_< I do it in a missile boat now. The Assault lvl 4 against Guristas - Nice mission, but very random with the jamming. Some times there's just a few ships who annoy you, and other times you're in one huge cycle jamming just getting bored. The 40k m3 cargo storyline mission. I just decline it, as people rarely got a hauler with space for it and I'm not arsed to fly several times for that small amount, which you can gain faster from another mission. Drone missions aren't bad. Sure they stink for no bounty, but I loot them so I can't complain.
adriaans Amarr The Movement	Posted - 2008.07.21 10:51:00 - [19] Edited by: adriaans on 21/07/2008 10:53:15 the ones that have long travel distance (aka. gates being 70km+ away) and/or the ones with way too many small targets.... trow in more BS's! (especially seeing any targets for a BS is dead before the t2 med/small drones are even halfway through the small ones.... ) basically more LARGE targets instead of small ones AND no friggin 70km away gates to slowboat too... edit: more missions vs drones and less mission vs amarr/caldari (especially this!) please (working for matar agents) -sig- Support the introduction of Blaze M crystals for Amarr!
Caldorous Gallente	Posted - 2008.07.21 10:53:00 - [20] Duo of death serpentis is a little nice mission i like it. "Too many frigate, too many flight time" <= Sorry guys but this is the way it's meant to be. It is a time sink because ccp don't want us to earn too much money in a short time. I don't believe it will change

Pteranodon	Posted - 2008.07.21 11:14:00 - [21] Originally by: syphurous Anything to do with Drones. Why? I love the level 4 Drone missions. I always come out with over 1000m3 of compressed minerals. It is very convenient for all your manufacturing needs. I'm always greatful for Zydrine.
Dark Solaris	Posted - 2008.07.21 11:50:00 - [22] Hmmm, I think that the problem is not with the mission themselves, but it is with your style and your wants. I think those who ask for changes for these mission mostly sit in a CNR, jump to the mission beacon, throw out mass missiles without even care about what they are fighting against, then rush to the next gate. To be honest, you are just chaining missions. So why don't you go chain rats in 0.0 or else? It is much faster. Or even do exploration. I personally do those missions, and in an Ishtar. I speed tank those rats and assist my drones with my blasters while always looting and salvaging. I don't have any problem as you said above. So why? Moreover you can just refuse those missions or just run many agents. For the loot/salvage, it is why CCP introduce Tractor beams and Marauders. Do you want just to missions like: jump right in to a 10km-radius blob, fire all missiles on everything, loot and chain another? It is boring and make the above items/ships useless. And do not argue that Tractor beams and Marauders are there for PVP. Be a little bit realistic. Reinforcements rarely jump right into the spot where their fellows have just died second ago, if not just to surprise you.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.07.21 11:54:00 - [23] new AE bonus room - where's the loot, dammit Massive Attack and Duo of Death - they FEEL like tough L3 missions, certainly not proper L4s EA 5/5 and any other timed trigger mission (as opposed to event triggered) _ THE APPRENTICE \|\| mineral balance \|\| nanofix
Wil Smithx	Posted - 2008.07.21 12:03:00 - [24] Massive attack, the ultimate pain mission. I do it afk always. Drone missions are awesome, the targets arent small, they just look like frigates, most of them are cruiser and BC so they still get mashed by torps. Not to mention they have bugger all EM res and hp while dropping fair salvage and pretty good loot. got myself around 2.5k zyd off my last drone mission in about 20 minutes. cargo delivery is a pain cos of neut, but then salvage is good. I think worlds collide should be up there too now, the first room is just annoying since it got changed
Carniflex Caldari StarHunt Fallout Project	Posted - 2008.07.21 13:05:00 - [25] Originally by: Dark Solaris Hmmm, I think that the problem is not with the mission themselves, but it is with your style and your wants. I think those who ask for changes for these mission mostly sit in a CNR, jump to the mission beacon, throw out mass missiles without even care about what they are fighting against, then rush to the next gate. To be honest, you are just chaining missions. So why don't you go chain rats in 0.0 or else? It is much faster. Or even do exploration. I personally do those missions, and in an Ishtar. I speed tank those rats and assist my drones with my blasters while always looting and salvaging. I don't have any problem as you said above. So why? Moreover you can just refuse those missions or just run many agents. For the loot/salvage, it is why CCP introduce Tractor beams and Marauders. Do you want just to missions like: jump right in to a 10km-radius blob, fire all missiles on everything, loot and chain another? It is boring and make the above items/ships useless. And do not argue that Tractor beams and Marauders are there for PVP. Be a little bit realistic. Reinforcements rarely jump right into the spot where their fellows have just died second ago, if not just to surprise you. Yes. We do missions for isk. If we want challenge then it's more intereting to shoot players. The issue is not 'easy isk' issue is situation where you are sitting there looking at gate getting slowly closer or look at the stars waiting for (non counterable) jam cykle to end. Travel distances themselves are not evil, problem is if you pop all targets in stage several minutes before you reach the gate. And that is with already mounting faction afterburner on my CNR. Nothing wrong using CNR for missions, some people just use best tools available for the job. 0.0 ... well ... yeah. 0.0 systems have certain population densaity they can support, unlike missions where agent spawns you encounter every time you ask for it. Not to mention boring nature of 0.0 territorial warfare that tends to put off people who do not like it. None of the real 0.0 corps I know of likes freeloaders who just PvE and when hostiles come up hide somewhere.
Halphas Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2008.07.21 13:27:00 - [26] LvL 4 missions are all equaly boring.
Forge Lag	Posted - 2008.07.21 13:35:00 - [27] WC: the aggro is all bugged, drones get agro all the time, rats move back an forth 80km away your battleship gets dumped right on top of interceptors (nice combo with the drone bugs, gz); good money though Drones: you have to loot them to get anythig and the loot is large and wrecks disappear fast and they never drop any random prize (like the best named you get elsewhere) and it plays part in destroying mineral market, could you make it even more annoying pleeese? Overdone ewar: I can deal with it, actually right now my FOFs are dealing with heavy dampening, it just is not fun and funneling everyone into the same ship makes game bland Otoh I like duo of death or cargo delivery or blood rider spies, generally any mission with well shaped objectives instead off "kill all enemies", having some blob there for those loving the slaughter would help though, like say recon 1/3.
Tamoko Damage Unlimited Inc INTERDICTION	Posted - 2008.07.21 14:02:00 - [28] Originally by: Xyzibit Edited by: Xyzibit on 21/07/2008 05:10:56 since there are a few new missions in the pipeline for us i thought about giving ccp some feedback what they should definitely NOT look like... lets get this started ... the most annoying mission for me is... level 4 MASSIVE ATTACK P.S.: CCP you should rename it to massive fail... Summary: Massive Attack [3] - too many frigates - no challenge - long flighttime Rouge Drone Missions (in general) [2] - no reward if not looted - too many small targets Cargo Delivery [1] Duo of Death [1] - 50km to loot + massive web = sucks Smuggler Interception [1] - too many small targets (again) Guristas [1] - Target Jamming (afaik not ECCM-able) not a too big threat but timesink The Blockade [1] - little too much Ewar in there A word to the wise: NONE of the gates in Massive Attack are locked. You may warp straight to the end without killing anything. At the end, kill the group that auto aggros on to you, then kill the group with the battleship. Takes five minutes to complete this one.
Rhak Amharr Minmatar Metafarmers	Posted - 2008.07.21 14:20:00 - [29] Massive Attack is just as boring as Enemies Abound or some "cool" mission after the 10th time you did it, improving missions by introducing more bount..erm, sorry, enemies, will not create more fun. You sure don't want to make more ISK/hour, you're just in for the fun, right? And omg, NPCs actually use EWAR on you so your mission takes longer. You poor guys. I propose to trigger mission completion on undocking. Unbelievable bullshit.
Forge Lag	Posted - 2008.07.21 14:33:00 - [30] Originally by: Rhak Amharr Unbelievable bullshit.

Sanzorz Amarr EVEfan.dk	Posted - 2008.07.21 15:42:00 - [31] Originally by: Rhak Amharr And omg, NPCs actually use EWAR on you so your mission takes longer. You poor guys. I propose to trigger mission completion on undocking. Fine, go do Sansha version of The Blockade in a gunboat with 24/7 Tracking distruption on you. I bet you will find that fun too
Dark Solaris	Posted - 2008.07.21 15:57:00 - [32] Yeah, I agree! People seem to prefer easy and isky missions. They just complain, CCP helps, then they complain more without giving any helpful value to improve the mission system. All we need is more choices of missions, not to make existing ones more boring. And once again, maybe EVE is not realistic for some point but, at some limit we should respect the logic. Missions should be challenging, otherwise people should better sit in a mining vessel, go to a belt and start afk-mining. When you go do a mission, it is not you who decide how it should be. A missioner should not ask for mission to be easy or comfortable for him to do, but rather to choose what mission he/she feel at ease and comfortable doing it. So please, spare us with the whining. It might be more helpful to point out the stupidity of the NPCs than to make them silly. Regards.
Tranka Verrane Caldari Private Venture Enterprises	Posted - 2008.07.21 18:26:00 - [33] Originally by: Xyzibit Summary: Massive Attack [3] - too many frigates - no challenge - long flighttime Rouge Drone Missions (in general) [2] - no reward if not looted - too many small targets Cargo Delivery [1] Duo of Death [1] - 50km to loot + massive web = sucks Smuggler Interception [1] - too many small targets (again) Guristas [1] - Target Jamming (afaik not ECCM-able) not a too big threat but timesink The Blockade [1] - little too much Ewar in there Variation in missions is a good thing. Fly a ship that handles the mission better instead of hugging your uberraven all the time. Change your tactics to suit the mission. Change whether you loot and salvage a mission to get them most out of them too. Also don't forget you can turn them down as well. Hate to agree with the PVP players but this whole thread makes me ashamed. If you can't do a mission it's not the game's fault, it's yours. The only issue I ever have with missions is technical; lag etc, and 99 times out of a hundred that is player-caused too. Get over it. /rant Ingame: Channels&Mailing lists>Channels>Join>PVE>OK
Xyzibit Caldari	Posted - 2008.07.21 20:25:00 - [34] Edited by: Xyzibit on 21/07/2008 20:26:27 well plz get me right im not trying to cry for not getting enough isk or easy missions... my "vote" goes for massive attack just because i was doing that mission while posting here... i just sum up what other people were saying in this thread! for me ewar is okay same for drones ... doing the loot job is also ok i dont have any problems with those missions! massive attack is just fail simply because of its name... this is a joke but not a massive attack! and well indeed worlds collide got a aggro problem of the npcs and this is definatly a bug since they dont move out of their clouds but well.... that should be fixed.
Zaknussem Caldari The Ironbreakers	Posted - 2008.07.21 22:50:00 - [35] It's been said before, but this thread is one big whinefest. At least it's a more mature whinefest than what has become the norm over in General Discussion. That said, the one thing CCP might take under consideration based on this thread is the ECM abilities of the NPCs. They're too powerful and don't follow the usual rules for ECM.
Yevgeny Bazarov Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2008.07.22 01:10:00 - [36] At level 3: all of them, except for the AE bonus room and a few others like that. Not enough hard-hitting high-hp ships, too many waste-of-time frigs. Killing a single big battleship in your bc simply feels more rewarding than killing a hundred frigates. Even if the actual challenge, time spent and rewards are exactly the same. Give me fewer but bigger ships, and I'll be happy
Rhak Amharr Minmatar Metafarmers	Posted - 2008.07.22 07:16:00 - [37] Originally by: Sanzorz Originally by: Rhak Amharr And omg, NPCs actually use EWAR on you so your mission takes longer. You poor guys. I propose to trigger mission completion on undocking. Fine, go do Sansha version of The Blockade in a gunboat with 24/7 Tracking distruption on you. I bet you will find that fun too - Use a missile ship - Use drones / a drone ship - Get a friend (you know, the entity that costs you half your bounties and rewards) - Fit tracking computers/enhancers - Use longer range ammo to offset range penalties (just not T2 longrange) It's not like you couldn't do something about it. And yes, I know what it's like to do that mission (from another char), if you're in a turret boat, it can be pretty hard and long (don't even think about doing that joke now) to do. But, you know, some people call a challenge "fun". That's the definition of carebear in this game I guess, no risk, no effort, high reward.
Kyra Felann Gallente Noctis Fleet Technologies	Posted - 2008.07.22 08:11:00 - [38] Originally by: Halphas LvL 4 missions are all equaly boring. This. They're basically mind-numbingly boring time-sinks.
Kyra Felann Gallente Noctis Fleet Technologies	Posted - 2008.07.22 08:13:00 - [39] Originally by: Dark Solaris People seem to prefer easy and isky missions. They just complain, CCP helps, then they complain more without giving any helpful value to improve the mission system. All we need is more choices of missions, not to make existing ones more boring. And once again, maybe EVE is not realistic for some point but, at some limit we should respect the logic. Missions should be challenging, otherwise people should better sit in a mining vessel, go to a belt and start afk-mining. When you go do a mission, it is not you who decide how it should be. A missioner should not ask for mission to be easy or comfortable for him to do, but rather to choose what mission he/she feel at ease and comfortable doing it. So please, spare us with the whining. It might be more helpful to point out the stupidity of the NPCs than to make them silly. I'd much prefer challenging missions with smarter NPCs that fight more like real players rather than easy missions that just require lots of time.
brocksamson316	Posted - 2008.07.22 08:29:00 - [40] im tired of serpentis using dampeners, take that out of the game so i can kill them faster, its a real pain in the neck and its unfair on people who get mostly serpentis missions.

Rhak Amharr Minmatar Metafarmers	Posted - 2008.07.22 08:39:00 - [41] Originally by: Kyra Felann I'd much prefer challenging missions with smarter NPCs that fight more like real players rather than easy missions that just require lots of time. Why don't you go PVP then? The loot/salvage is better, they're just what you want (smarter than current NPCs most of the time), and it's challenging most of the time. So what exactly is stopping you? Oh, right, you can't just go somewhere, click a button, and have a huge amount of players spawned for you, waiting in a specially created place for their last HP of hull to vanish. Maybe you'll have to spend a few hours to actively find a fight. You might even lose a ship! Get real. You still want no risk with high reward, maybe with a little more diversity, but in no way more risky.
Catharacta Caldari Carebear Cavalry	Posted - 2008.07.22 10:41:00 - [42] Originally by: Kyra Felann I'd much prefer challenging missions with smarter NPCs that fight more like real players rather than easy missions that just require lots of time. You're right. Every mission rat should have a Falcon alt perma-jamming you from two hundred kilometers. And they should play docking games with the large collidable objects.
Jastra Gallente Black Thorne Corporation	Posted - 2008.07.22 18:54:00 - [43] Originally by: Xyzibit Edited by: Xyzibit on 21/07/2008 20:21:36 Rogue....the word is Rogue.... Quote: Rouge From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Jump to: navigation, search Not to be confused with Rogue (disambiguation). Massive Attack should be a level 3 mission, the rest are not to bad but there are way to few different ones.
Hobbes277	Posted - 2008.07.23 01:12:00 - [44] Issues with numerous small targets or jammed by gurtistas, pack some fof missles and the problem goes away. I will say though that the level 3 massive attack is far easier then the level 3 version and not as rewarding. I always turn down stop the theif and slient the informent ran them to many times and cant stand them anymore. Pretty much any mission with mercenarys in them. High damage and low bountys not my thing.
Dark Solaris	Posted - 2008.07.23 12:19:00 - [45] Originally by: Yevgeny Bazarov At level 3: all of them, except for the AE bonus room and a few others like that. Not enough hard-hitting high-hp ships, too many waste-of-time frigs. Killing a single big battleship in your bc simply feels more rewarding than killing a hundred frigates. Even if the actual challenge, time spent and rewards are exactly the same. Give me fewer but bigger ships, and I'll be happy So if I do understand you well, you would want less "waste-of-time" frigs and more elite frigs that will root you and prevent you to o back to mama to whine? Be tolerant. No frigs is ever "waste-of-time". So why don't you leave them to your drones and go after the big bad boys? Why should you bother? And why should you criticize? It remind me the story of a tank driver whining to his officer why he needs to kill infantries on the battlefield just because he considers those "waste-of-time" soldiers. Don't say such baby joke please.
CmdoColin	Posted - 2008.07.23 12:45:00 - [46] Personally like "Duo of Death" Wish more missions were like it... With one caveat. Make the NPC's even tougher - and give us better loot. If it's a Gurista one with 2 ravens - I want there to be 10 hostile medium drones (repair/ew/damage) and 12 torps every 10 seconds at 30km. BUT... give me decent loot. I want good raven drops. Good shield stuff, good missile stuff. I don't want a freaking cargo scanner. Same for each of the NPC factions. Lasers/armour for Bloods, Blasters/Armour for Serp, and so on. EW If there is EW, make it counterable. Back to Duo of Death, I raven and 1 scorp EW'ing me would be cool if I knew it in advance and could counter it with ECCM. Audita et altera pars
Molock Saronen	Posted - 2008.07.23 13:16:00 - [47] I think it's called 'Feeding the Giant'. You know... Those thrill packed 'Mining missions' Dear lord...


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