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Machimpy	Posted - 2008.07.26 13:33:00 - [1] Aparently that's the ultimate sin in this community, and I've witnessed many people getting discriminated for not being what others expected them to be. Is there a real reason for this?
Slade Trillgon Siorai Iontach Brotherhood of the Spider	Posted - 2008.07.26 13:47:00 - [2] Edited by: Slade Trillgon on 26/07/2008 13:47:44 Originally by: Machimpy Aparently that's the ultimate sin in the world today, and I've witnessed many people getting discriminated for not being what others expected them to be. Is there a real reason for this? Fixed that for you P.S. I do not exempt myself from this crowd I will let others do that for me Slade "I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem fix its self"
Rhanna Khurin Minmatar	Posted - 2008.07.26 13:48:00 - [3] Because dumb people are stupid! and your comment about "..for not being what others expected them to be.." is rather vague and mysterious.
Machimpy	Posted - 2008.07.26 13:59:00 - [4] Quote: Because dumb people are stupid! As much as I love stamp logic, Im curious to know where that leaves the stupid ones at.
Remata Lakira Terran Coalition The Threshold	Posted - 2008.07.26 14:03:00 - [5] If you want a game that treats you like a special kiddy no matter how much you screw up go play WoW or any one of the 40 WoW clones out. EVE is a game where bad things happen unlucky and/or idiots who would rather whine on the forums than adapt to a game.
Lui Kai Perkone	Posted - 2008.07.26 14:04:00 - [6] Edited by: Lui Kai on 26/07/2008 14:06:01 Originally by: Machimpy Aparently that's the ultimate sin in this community, and I've witnessed many people getting discriminated for not being what others expected them to be. Is there a real reason for this? When someone chooses to live a completely sedentary life, stuffing food down their gullet as quickly as they can until they're unable to move or bathe unassisted - society as a whole considers that unhealthy (at best), and disgustingly lazy (More realistically). When someone shows the same sloth and lack of concern for their mind - do you believe they should be treated differently than the above? Edit: In truth, my gripe most often isn't with people who are only stupid. It's that stupidity often comes paired up with an entitled laziness that causes them to act as if their ignorance is my burden - that we should all use smaller words, explain things in more detail, and outright do things for them. Frankly, I don't feel that their weakness entitles them to a claim on my strength. ---------------- Ambulation Answers
ReaperOfSly Gallente Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.07.26 14:05:00 - [7] Because dumb people are annoying when they think they're being clever. __________________________ Quote: ...bored, skint, no charter, and a ship that looks like an explosion in a girder factory...
Machimpy	Posted - 2008.07.26 14:07:00 - [8] Quote: If you want a game that treats you like a special kiddy no matter how much you screw up go play WoW or any one of the 40 WoW clones out. EVE is a game where bad things happen unlucky and/or idiots who would rather whine on the forums than adapt to a game. Is this about feeling proud to adapt?
Rhanna Khurin Minmatar	Posted - 2008.07.26 14:10:00 - [9] People should be victimised for being stupid. and i'm not just talking about spelling mistakes or occasional ignorance here, i'm talking G.W Bush style mental incompetence. AKA Oxygen thieves.
Remata Lakira Terran Coalition The Threshold	Posted - 2008.07.26 14:13:00 - [10] Originally by: Machimpy Quote: If you want a game that treats you like a special kiddy no matter how much you screw up go play WoW or any one of the 40 WoW clones out. EVE is a game where bad things happen unlucky and/or idiots who would rather whine on the forums than adapt to a game. Is this about feeling proud to adapt? That and pitying those who can't, yes.

Machimpy	Posted - 2008.07.26 14:33:00 - [11] Edited by: Machimpy on 26/07/2008 14:35:49 Edited by: Machimpy on 26/07/2008 14:34:12 Quote: When someone chooses to live a completely sedentary life, stuffing food down their gullet as quickly as they can until they're unable to move or bathe unassisted - society as a whole considers that unhealthy (at best), and disgustingly lazy (More realistically). When someone shows the same sloth and lack of concern for their mind - do you believe they should be treated differently than the above? Edit: In truth, my gripe most often isn't with people who are only stupid. It's that stupidity often comes paired up with an entitled laziness that causes them to act as if their ignorance is my burden - that we should all use smaller words, explain things in more detail, and outright do things for them. Frankly, I don't feel that their weakness entitles them to a claim on my strength. Quote: That and pitying those who can't, yes. You know there are people working with them (not for them) and it has to take a lot of guts to work with them and not make them feel undervalued. Because what you'd usually get from them in return is a grudge cycle. They're human beings afterall and quite capable of being proud about what they do if threatened, laughing at those who pity them and taking advantage of what society gives and gets disgusted at simultaneously.
Lui Kai Perkone	Posted - 2008.07.26 14:41:00 - [12] Edited by: Lui Kai on 26/07/2008 14:42:18 Originally by: Machimpy You know there are people working with them (not for them) and it has to take a lot of guts to work with them and not make them feel undervalued. Because what you'd usually get from them in return is a grudge cycle. They're human beings afterall and quite capable of being proud about what they do too, laughing at those who pity them and taking advantage of what society gives and gets disgusted at simultaneously. From what you've said, I'm going to assume that you subscribe to the "Everyone is Inherently Valuable" fallacy. If this assumption is wrong, I apologize. I assume this because, most often, there is a similar response I hear most often from stupid people. Usually, it goes something like this: Stupid person: I don't understand. Why is n? Intelligent person: Go read x, it's explained there. Stupid person: Can't you just explain it to me? I don't understand x. Intelligent person: No. I'm not paid to teach. Stop being lazy and stupid. Stupid person: Screw you! I may be stupid, but I'm valuable because I'm a person! You should explain it to me! The above is exactly where I begin planning to build a device that will stab a person in the face via the internet. No-one - I reiterate here - NO-ONE is valuable by virtue of being born. Value is something you accomplish, through actions and effort. If someone is not willing to put in any effort, they have no value. The "They have worth as a person no matter what" school of thought ultimately means: If they're weaker than you, you should carry them until you're weak too. ---------------- Ambulation Answers
Machimpy	Posted - 2008.07.26 14:48:00 - [13] Quote: Stupid person: I don't understand. Why is n? Intelligent person: Go read x, it's explained there. Stupid person: Can't you just explain it to me? I don't understand x. Intelligent person: No. I'm not paid to teach. Stop being lazy and stupid. Stupid person: Screw you! I may be stupid, but I'm valuable because I'm a person! You should explain it to me! You've nailed it there, what would it really take for the intelligent person to ignore at the point when the stupid person says "Can't you just explain it to me? I don't understan x."?? After that, what the intelligent person says may well be a blatant abuse of power, totally uncalled for and, if I may call stupid...
Lui Kai Perkone	Posted - 2008.07.26 15:00:00 - [14] Originally by: Machimpy You've nailed it there, what would it really take for the intelligent person to ignore at the point when the stupid person says "Can't you just explain it to me? I don't understan x."?? After that, what the intelligent person says may well be a blatant abuse of power, totally uncalled for and, if I may call it stupid or arrogant...? Because it's never just that conversation - Especially in an online environment. It's dozens, upon dozens, upon dozens. Eventually, the number of willfully lazy people trying to impose themselves upon the intelligent people are just going to get frustrating, annoying, and overwhelming. Even if it is only the single conversation - In the above example, the stupid person is asking a favor from the intelligent, often a very complex and time consuming favor. They're asking, usually from a total stranger, an explanation in small enough words & simple enough concepts that they can understand. An explanation that is usually already available for them to go and read on their own. By the same logic - if a physically able person were sitting at the table next to me in a restaurant, then turned to me and asked if I could spoon the soup into their mouth for them, I'm not likely to feel happy to help. The 80th person in the restaurant to ask me to do it for them as well is likely to get derided for their sloth - as is the 80th person in the example given above. ---------------- Ambulation Answers
Machimpy	Posted - 2008.07.26 15:30:00 - [15] Edited by: Machimpy on 26/07/2008 15:31:37 Quote: By the same logic - if a physically able person were sitting at the table next to me in a restaurant, then turned to me and asked if I could spoon the soup into their mouth for them, I'm not likely to feel happy to help. The 80th person in the restaurant to ask me to do it for them as well is likely to get derided for their sloth - as is the 80th person in the example given above. It's not like I haven't understood the logic, I don't see the need for explicity. However I see an awful lot of paying attention and reprimanding of stupid demands. Often on purpose from the intelligent party, zooing on stupid behaviour, and failing to realise that might as much of a dumb move. No matter how numerous they are, my point is, if it feeds from your energy so much then why should you let them get to you when that might be what they want? (who knows, would you at least bother asking them?) Surely doing the latter could serve as a test of intelligence and strength. Giving in to deriding even the 80th person comes as a sign of weakness and arrogance and I strongly tend to deride on that too. I personally love getting intelligent people angry, testing their intelligence as a fact.
Lui Kai Perkone	Posted - 2008.07.26 15:35:00 - [16] Originally by: Machimpy It's not like I haven't understood the logic, I don't see the need for explicity. However I see an awful lot of paying attention and reprimanding of stupid demands. Often on purpose from the intelligent party, zooing on stupid behaviour, and failing to realise that might as much of a dumb move. No matter how numerous they are, my point is, if it feeds from your energy so much then why should you let them get to you when that's what they want? Surely doing the latter could serve as a test of intelligence and strength. Giving in to deriding even the 80th person comes as a sign of weakness and arrogance and I strongly tend to deride on that too. I personally love getting intelligent people angry, testing their intelligence as a fact. Then we have fundamentally different viewpoints, and there's no point in arguing. You think a failure of intelligence should be tolerated. I think tolerance of a failure is more insulting than anything else that could be said or done to that person. ---------------- Ambulation Answers
Rhatar Khurin Minmatar The PeacekeeperZ Phobos Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.26 15:42:00 - [17] Originally by: Machimpy Surely doing the latter could serve as a test of intelligence and strength. Giving in to deriding even the 80th person comes as a sign of weakness and arrogance and I strongly tend to deride on that too. I personally love getting intelligent people angry, testing their intelligence as a fact. Being intelligent has nothing to do with being a friendly person. Giving into what you consider a weakness and getting angry doesn't mean someone is any less intelligent, it just means they have a low threshold for morons.
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2008.07.26 15:43:00 - [18] Originally by: Lui Kai Then we have fundamentally different viewpoints, and there's no point in arguing. You think a failure of intelligence should be tolerated. I think tolerance of a failure is more insulting than anything else that could be said or done to that person. But you fail to appreciate other parts besides intelligence in a human being, so doesnt that make you a failure? --- Originally by: Roguehalo Can you nano Titans?
Lui Kai Perkone	Posted - 2008.07.26 15:49:00 - [19] Originally by: Jim McGregor But you fail to appreciate other parts besides intelligence in a human being, so doesnt that make you a failure? I'm willing to bet you and I put significantly different values on what deserves to be praised in a person, and thus have different definitions of "failure" for that person. ---------------- Ambulation Answers
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2008.07.26 16:00:00 - [20] Originally by: Lui Kai Originally by: Jim McGregor But you fail to appreciate other parts besides intelligence in a human being, so doesnt that make you a failure? I'm willing to bet you and I put significantly different values on what deserves to be praised in a person, and thus have different definitions of "failure" for that person. Yes, I praise more than intelligence in a person. --- Originally by: Roguehalo Can you nano Titans?

Machimpy	Posted - 2008.07.26 16:01:00 - [21] Quote: Then we have fundamentally different viewpoints, and there's no point in arguing. You think a failure of intelligence should be tolerated. I think tolerance of a failure is more insulting than anything else that could be said or done to that person. No that aint the point, failure of intelligence don't necessarily have to be seen from a tolerated or not viewpoint. Both actions are just as insulting because as soon as someone implies he tolerates something, already proves a degree of egotistic arrogance. By the way, having an intelligent argument isn't about converging viewpoints, it's about what two opposites discover through it, and for that, a fair ammount of curiosty's needed...
Machimpy	Posted - 2008.07.26 16:05:00 - [22] Quote: Yes, I praise more than intelligence in a person. Thank you.
Rhatar Khurin Minmatar The PeacekeeperZ Phobos Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.26 16:10:00 - [23] Your original comment was about people in THIS community. There are not that manyother traits to think about other than intelligence when playing EVE or talking on a forum. The person on the other side of the screen could be a mass-murdering mental case for all i know, but he makes valid arguments about weapon configuration on a typhoon.
Slade Trillgon Siorai Iontach Brotherhood of the Spider	Posted - 2008.07.26 16:12:00 - [24] Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: Lui Kai Originally by: Jim McGregor But you fail to appreciate other parts besides intelligence in a human being, so doesnt that make you a failure? I'm willing to bet you and I put significantly different values on what deserves to be praised in a person, and thus have different definitions of "failure" for that person. Yes, I praise more than intelligence in a person. Yes, like the ability to convey a concept to others. I also praise ones own power to overcome a state of ignorance and educate themsleves Slade "I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem fix its self"
Lui Kai Perkone	Posted - 2008.07.26 16:38:00 - [25] Originally by: Machimpy No that aint the point, failure of intelligence don't necessarily have to be seen from a tolerated or not viewpoint. According to you, yes it does. Originally by: Machimpy You've nailed it there, what would it really take for the intelligent person to ignore at the point when the stupid person says "Can't you just explain it to me? I don't understan x."?? I see intelligence as preferable to stupidity. Just to clarify for future points, I also see strength as preferable to weakness, self-reliance preferable to dependency, richness to poorness, and happiness to sadness. Silence is tacit acceptance. Acceptance of a state you find non-preferable is tolerance. Thus not calling a stupid person stupid is tolerating them. Originally by: Machimpy By the way, having an intelligent argument isn't about converging viewpoints, it's about what two opposites discover through it, and for that, a fair ammount of curiosty's needed... It's not about trying to convince you, or you to convince me. It's that we're both arguing from fundamentally different value structures - which can't be changed via any arguement, and which distort the way we both use words. Every time you say "kindness," "compassion," or "acceptance" I see "patronization," "pity," or "tolerance" Every time I say "self reliance," "intelligence," or "strength" you see "egotism," "arrogance," or "coldness" The very fact you seem to think egocentrism is a bad thing illustrates this - we see the world in ways too fundamentally different to be able to actually communicate our values to each other. I will never, ever understand why being stupid would be acceptable. You will never, ever understand why wanting to help someone would be pitiable. Essentially, we'd either be arguing semantics or metaphysics - and either one is annoying to do, to me. ---------------- Ambulation Answers
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2008.07.26 16:51:00 - [26] Lui Kai, even though we may have different personalities, I think you are 100% correct in why people sometimes cannot see the other persons point of view. I have a coworker that gets really annoyed when I explain something to him, because he feels I am explaining it in too basic terms. He feels insulted and patronized I think. Yet that is not at all my intention. So I think it goes to show that whatever values we have sometimes overshadows the intent of the other person. This is a much more interesting discussion than intelligence in my opinion... --- Originally by: Roguehalo Can you nano Titans?
northwesten Amarr Trinity Corporate Services	Posted - 2008.07.26 19:13:00 - [27] Originally by: Machimpy Edited by: Machimpy on 26/07/2008 14:55:01 Quote: Stupid person: I don't understand. Why is n? Intelligent person: Go read x, it's explained there. Stupid person: Can't you just explain it to me? I don't understand x. Intelligent person: No. I'm not paid to teach. Stop being lazy and stupid. Stupid person: Screw you! I may be stupid, but I'm valuable because I'm a person! You should explain it to me! You've nailed it there, what would it really take for the intelligent person to ignore at the point when the stupid person says "Can't you just explain it to me? I don't understan x."?? After that, what the intelligent person says may well be a blatant abuse of power, totally uncalled for and, if I may call it stupid and arrogant...? I agree but I have to ask a person to explain to me because my reading skills suck (Dyslexic?) sigh I hate it too! but what winds me up people judge you by your spelling and grammar. I never do unless its in text form Trinity Corporate Services
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated	Posted - 2008.07.26 19:24:00 - [28] Edited by: goodby4u on 26/07/2008 19:25:35 Well I think your talking about in the world? Ill answer both. In the eve community people are yelled at for being dumb because the person yelling at him usually had to answer that same dumb question 5 times already, I personally like answering questions so im not one of those. In the world you must understand everybody is considered equal, so mr stupid next to you can vote for something thats idiotic without doing his research and he nullifies your vote, beyond that stupid people also usually ruin it for others ie they sue mcdonalds for making them fat or get burned by coffee so the coffee shop has to make their coffee cold now. Not to mention stupid people normally breed faster then smart people so the world is slowly becoming more idiotic because of the current groups. Lastly, besides laughing my ass off when an idiot gets hurt most of them are incredibly annoying with faulty logic.
Rawr Cristina Caldari Omerta Syndicate	Posted - 2008.07.26 19:56:00 - [29] Some people seem to think that they can't be smart without also being an ******, I guess. It's like they have too much pride in themselves to consider lesser people* even as people for not understanding something that makes perfect sense in their head. I'm a bit dyslexic too and when someone is explaining something to me, even something really simple, I'll get confused easily and won't be able to picture it unless they explain it in a specific way Even when reading I find myself going back entire paragraphs because at some point my brain switched off and stopped making sense of any of it. Yes some smarter individuals can find it annoying at times, but it's not like us dumbasses are having fun either. ...
Fink Angel Caldari The Merry Men	Posted - 2008.07.26 20:06:00 - [30] 7th Sense: "I see dumb people"



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