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Kronos / Paladin need their web bonus buffed.

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Jaketh Ivanes Amarr Imperial Servants	Posted - 2008.08.11 10:46:00 - [91] I fly a Marauder on TQ. I very rarely use the web on frigates, as it takes them for ever to slow down enough for my big guns to hit it, and by that time, my medium drones could have killed it already. Yes, it would be nice to have 99% webs at lvl 5, but meh. Don't see the big problem with it, when the Paladin has plenty of drone space.
Jim Hazard	Posted - 2008.08.11 12:53:00 - [92] Originally by: forum mematar Originally by: Jim Hazard - can either only fit a scrambler or web (only matters for PvP of course) Whats this nerf? Haven't heard of this In theory of course it would be possible to fit both, but if you take a closer look at the slot layout you will notice it still remains theory, unless you want to get jammed by any ship that can use 5 small jammer drones.
Roemy Schneider BINFORD Solidus Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.11 13:45:00 - [93] oh, this isnt a troll thread...? just when i thought i had grasped the meaning of it =( as someone already pointed out: fit two webs now for -97.82% - putting the gist back into logistics
The Djego Minmatar merovinger inc	Posted - 2008.08.11 14:03:00 - [94] Edited by: The Djego on 11/08/2008 14:03:28 Originally by: Roemy Schneider oh, this isnt a troll thread...? just when i thought i had grasped the meaning of it =( as someone already pointed out: fit two webs now for -97.82% Cool, i allways had only 3 of my 4 Meds realy in use. Finaly i can fit a Mod in. So the dicison is, less Tank(barly since i only use 4 Slots for it) less Damage(switch a MFS with a Cap power Realy to remove the only Cap Recharger in the Fitting) or less Tracking/Range(Switch a Tracking Comp with a Web) for less Web Power overall. Sounds like fun. But im glad it only hits the minority of Turret users that do PVE wiht Turrets. Since any Missle ship are not effected by this, looks quite balanced to me. Why not making hard mode a bit harder and maintain easy mode as it is? ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
Lopin Acheteur Project Amargosa	Posted - 2008.08.11 14:35:00 - [95] Originally by: Bellum Eternus Originally by: Lopin Acheteur Originally by: Bellum Eternus Pretty much every post here saying that the current bonuses are 'good enough' are all concerned with PVP. Everyone knows that no one ever PVPs in Marauders. They're only for mission running, hence their arguement that it's 'overpowered' is absurd. See the thing is, no one today uses a maurader where they could use 2 webs on another ship, because that single extra slot is not that valuable compared to the advantage. I sure as hell WILL use a Kronos in PvP if it is the only ship capable of giving a 99% web with 1 slot, while the best any other ship can do with 3 slots is 93.6%. Hell even with 90% with one slot vs 84% with a rapier using 2 slots, I will be strongly thinking about using a maurader in PvP post patch (99% web with two webs !, no other ship can do that even with 5 webs !) If it makes them not as good at missioning, maybe it's the rats that need slowing down ;) If you intend on PVPing witha Kronos or Paladin with two webs fit post patch, I'm adding you to my contact list and firing up my locator agents. You can meet my falcon alt too then
Ethaet Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2008.08.11 23:26:00 - [96] Increasing the web bonus to 13% per level gives 99% webbing from a 60% web. It is balanced because: 1. marauders cost a lot, not many people would use one in pvp 2. any well skilled ecm pilot in a rook/falcon can permajam 2 marauders. If people have the isk and are insane enough to take a kronos/paladin into pvp just for its web, congratulations, you get a slight advantage assuming there is no ecm arund, and you get BBQ'd if there is. -------------------------------------------------------------- Seriously, we need some kind of separation between the post and signature. There you go. Now that wasn't so hard
Zo5o Gallente Longcat is Long	Posted - 2008.08.11 23:36:00 - [97] OK so if a 99% web is in fact overpowered for pvp, which I don't think it is considering Eth's above post... then the bonus needs to be changed, as it's a completely useless pve bonus on a pve-oriented ship. Suggestions anyone?
Roemy Schneider BINFORD Solidus Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.11 23:50:00 - [98] Originally by: The Djego Edited by: The Djego on 11/08/2008 14:03:28 Originally by: Roemy Schneider oh, this isnt a troll thread...? just when i thought i had grasped the meaning of it =( as someone already pointed out: fit two webs now for -97.82% Cool, i allways had only 3 of my 4 Meds realy in use. Finaly i can fit a Mod in. So the dicison is, less Tank(barly since i only use 4 Slots for it) less Damage(switch a MFS with a Cap power Realy to remove the only Cap Recharger in the Fitting) or less Tracking/Range(Switch a Tracking Comp with a Web) for less Web Power overall. Sounds like fun. But im glad it only hits the minority of Turret users that do PVE wiht Turrets. Since any Missle ship are not effected by this, looks quite balanced to me. Why not making hard mode a bit harder and maintain easy mode as it is? sry, the angel bashing tempest/vargur just doesnt pity your +5% damage pulse lasers nor the kronos bonuses. i've had it with the strongest weapon systems getting buffed all day. dear god, one less MFS, what was i thinking - putting the gist back into logistics
Jufi Wekior Arachnid Logistics	Posted - 2008.08.11 23:55:00 - [99] Originally by: Ethaet Increasing the web bonus to 13% per level gives 99% webbing from a 60% web. It is balanced because: 1. marauders cost a lot, not many people would use one in pvp 2. any well skilled ecm pilot in a rook/falcon can permajam 2 marauders. If people have the isk and are insane enough to take a kronos/paladin into pvp just for its web, congratulations, you get a slight advantage assuming there is no ecm arund, and you get BBQ'd if there is. 1. The cost of an item has no bearing on balance. If it did, titans would be invincible and when they fired their doomsday all ships in space in the entire universe would explode(especially Jita). Not to mention that in a world where everyone has 60% webs a 90% web is awesomeness on a stick... wait, I did mention it 2. any well skilled ecm pilot in a rook/falcon can permajam a maelstrom with 3 eccm(just ask cown)
murder one Gallente Invincible Reason	Posted - 2008.08.12 06:19:00 - [100] Originally by: Lopin Acheteur Originally by: Bellum Eternus Originally by: Lopin Acheteur Originally by: Bellum Eternus Pretty much every post here saying that the current bonuses are 'good enough' are all concerned with PVP. Everyone knows that no one ever PVPs in Marauders. They're only for mission running, hence their arguement that it's 'overpowered' is absurd. See the thing is, no one today uses a maurader where they could use 2 webs on another ship, because that single extra slot is not that valuable compared to the advantage. I sure as hell WILL use a Kronos in PvP if it is the only ship capable of giving a 99% web with 1 slot, while the best any other ship can do with 3 slots is 93.6%. Hell even with 90% with one slot vs 84% with a rapier using 2 slots, I will be strongly thinking about using a maurader in PvP post patch (99% web with two webs !, no other ship can do that even with 5 webs !) If it makes them not as good at missioning, maybe it's the rats that need slowing down ;) If you intend on PVPing witha Kronos or Paladin with two webs fit post patch, I'm adding you to my contact list and firing up my locator agents. You can meet my falcon alt too then You only have one Falcon alt? [07:13:55] doctorstupid2 > what do i train now? [07:14:05] Trista Rotnor > little boys to 2 Fleet Combat Ships

Felix Dzerzhinsky Caldari Wreckless Abandon Un-Natural Selection	Posted - 2008.08.12 07:59:00 - [101] A reasonable request considering Mauraders are neutered pvp ships anyway and the bears need their berries. ---- GO BLUE!!
Lopin Acheteur Project Amargosa	Posted - 2008.08.12 09:48:00 - [102] Originally by: murder one You only have one Falcon alt? Generally you make more mistakes when PvPing with more than 2 accounts. That's why you have gang mates. They can bring their falcon alts too .
SlaineMor Minmatar Sicarri Covenant	Posted - 2008.08.12 14:00:00 - [103] If Maurauders get a boost to web bonus then so should the matari recons and eelectronic attack ships as well as the Bhaalgorn etc.. Or is this game turning into a total twink-fest! ...lighter, more agile, missile spamming mission ships et... pfft! I dunno... Eat my Rusty Bullethole!
Zo5o Gallente Longcat is Long	Posted - 2008.08.12 21:17:00 - [104] Quote: sry, the angel bashing tempest/vargur just doesnt pity your +5% damage pulse lasers nor the kronos bonuses. Quote: If Maurauders get a boost to web bonus then so should the matari recons and eelectronic attack ships as well as the Bhaalgorn etc.. Posting in a thread entitled "Tempests, Vargurs, Matari Recons, Electronic Attack Ships, and the Bhaalgorn" ...oh wait.
Jaketh Ivanes Amarr Imperial Servants	Posted - 2008.08.12 22:07:00 - [105] Just a little experience on TQ. A webbed frig is not hit by Megabeams with Navy X-rays and 2 tracking computers with tracking scripts. That is with Marauder lvl 4. The last level might help, but can't be that much. Cruisers I hit without webs, even below 10km.
The Djego Minmatar merovinger inc	Posted - 2008.08.13 00:58:00 - [106] Originally by: Roemy Schneider Originally by: The Djego Edited by: The Djego on 11/08/2008 14:03:28 Originally by: Roemy Schneider oh, this isnt a troll thread...? just when i thought i had grasped the meaning of it =( as someone already pointed out: fit two webs now for -97.82% Cool, i allways had only 3 of my 4 Meds realy in use. Finaly i can fit a Mod in. So the dicison is, less Tank(barly since i only use 4 Slots for it) less Damage(switch a MFS with a Cap power Realy to remove the only Cap Recharger in the Fitting) or less Tracking/Range(Switch a Tracking Comp with a Web) for less Web Power overall. Sounds like fun. But im glad it only hits the minority of Turret users that do PVE wiht Turrets. Since any Missle ship are not effected by this, looks quite balanced to me. Why not making hard mode a bit harder and maintain easy mode as it is? sry, the angel bashing tempest/vargur just doesnt pity your +5% damage pulse lasers nor the kronos bonuses. i've had it with the strongest weapon systems getting buffed all day. dear god, one less MFS, what was i thinking Someone pulled the "But Vargur sucks." card. I allready mentioned this. Also i can¦t realy compare, because i can¦t fly the Vargur(tryed the Pest, but liked the Mealstorm more). Also my fully Gank fitted Abaddon in Angel/Gurista Missions and is still not faster as a Mini BS, because the unflexible Damage Typ. Because the Kronos works like Amarr BS best when fitted for max Damage. You don¦t tank very long, Cap is not substainalbe, you got low Resists, you have to pick the Targets in the right order to reduce Damage fast, and in this case 5% Damage make a huge Diffrence. The 99% Web simply helps the Kronos out short range to deploy damage fast and with less Tracking issues. Megabeams have a better Tracking than 425er Rails. Im prefering Mega Puls, because of the even better Tracking, high ROF and Damage, that makes it easy to take down small stuff fast without Webbing(everything expet of Frigs under 10km). A 425er Rails don¦t hit a Cruiser under 10km, in fact it even have trouble to hit a unwebbed Battleship(Angels) at this range(with 2 Tracking Comps). Orbiting Cruisers at 20km took also very long because of the low hit chance. And even Mega Puls are miss quite some shoots against Angels, because of her high speeds. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
Roemy Schneider BINFORD Solidus Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.13 04:20:00 - [107] Edited by: Roemy Schneider on 13/08/2008 04:21:55 errr... yes your tank can't be sustained when fit for max damage...... sry, but... no sh** sherlock -.- all the stuff mentioned is a given - lamenting about it just shows how spoiled some people are; right in the OP: you want to shoot frigs with large guns! and not just any - the biggest large guns! all you have to do is spare one MagStab in order to get cap there, then fit a second web. or actually use your >1k cargo for cap charges - replenish them from sanshas, serpentis, etc if shield tanking were that easy..... yeahyeah... flexible projectile ammo. translation: apart from dishing out a fraction of your EFT-dps, phased plasma and fusion (and titanium sabot) reduce it even more. add the fact that falloff means LOTS of missed shots and minnies can be glad if they deal half the damage you are used to. what's next? petitioning "carriers back into plexes"? how about some new T2 carriers with +100% painter bonuses, so the fighters work better? however, that would require drone skills which seem to be a no-go for marauder pilots if i read this thread correctly. - putting the gist back into logistics
The Djego Minmatar merovinger inc	Posted - 2008.08.13 11:41:00 - [108] Originally by: Roemy Schneider errr... yes your tank can't be sustained when fit for max damage...... sry, but... no sh sherlock -.- all the stuff mentioned is a given - lamenting about it just shows how spoiled some people are; right in the OP: you want to shoot frigs with large guns! and not just any - the biggest large guns! Shooting Frigs with Large guns is a gimik, slowing down Targets fast is essentional. Yes please remove it, i don¦t have it on my ship so nobody should have it. Originally by:** Roemy Schneider all you have to do is spare one MagStab in order to get cap there, then fit a second web. or actually use your >1k cargo for cap charges - replenish them from sanshas, serpentis, etc No the question is why removing a usefull Bonus from a so called PVE Ship, because it could be used in PVP. Sorry i seen no thread about "Nerf Kronos\Paladin, they webbed me to hell in PVP" so far because this ships are not the T2 uber PVP Ships some people think they are. They have some advantages and some disadvantages. Lack of Sensor Stenght, long Lock Times, smaller Bandwith(Kronos), higher Price than Faction BS, less HP than Faction BS etc. There is no reason to nerf ships in her field of use because it could be used for something else where it only do average. Using a Cap Booster -> replacing the Cap Recharger? Clue? Originally by: Roemy Schneider if shield tanking were that easy..... So, more effective Cap\Boostamount, with XL Booster + Amp(vs 2 Large Reppers), smaller Cycles, instant HP Gain, passive Recharge of the shield, more effective Invus, more effective Faction Suff(Gist), free Low Slots for Damage Mods are need fixing because it is to hard? Originally by: Roemy Schneider yeahyeah... flexible projectile ammo. translation: apart from dishing out a fraction of your EFT-dps, phased plasma and fusion (and titanium sabot) reduce it even more. add the fact that falloff means LOTS of missed shots and minnies can be glad if they deal half the damage you are used to. I done Missions with Minmatar Ships to, thank you for you EFT insights. I have no Problem with the Phoon or the Mealstorm here. I know how Falloff works, and it is not that big deal with Artis(only Problem that the Vargur is not designed around Artis and needs tweaking but i mentioned this twice allready). So again, im ok with the Nerf because it don¦t affects me and my ships suck in PVE? ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
Zo5o Gallente Longcat is Long	Posted - 2008.08.13 22:32:00 - [109] Quote: Because it is mutch cheaper and more effective to use a remote repped Huggin with multiple Webs. Using a slow locking slow moving over expesive BS for Webbing in a gate camp will never happen, or if it would get down shot for shure. I think we're losing sight of the fact that ^^^THIS^^^ is why there's no problem with the Kronos/Paladin keeping 99% webs.
The Djego Minmatar merovinger inc	Posted - 2008.08.14 00:44:00 - [110] I yust want to add some things, spoken from my point of view. Atm, a 99% Web would be quite powerfull against any Nano Ship alive. Why people dont use it? 1. Range, you are still in a tanked Battleship, you are realy slow comapred to other Ships. Even with a Domination Web you are limeted to 17km(with Overload). A Nano Pilote with a clue will not enter this ranges to a Web Bonused Ship, if it does, well yes it is lost, but it is by a mistake of the Pilote. If you are against a Nano Gang the other pilotes will see what happens and stay out of your range or simply leave. Since you have the Grid you can Fit a Officer Web with a greater Range, that adds another Bill from your wallet to the Loose mail if you get ganked. I personaly know no other pilote that flyes a pimped Faction BS(I do, mine is about 1.5 B in total) but asuming mods like this will get you a BS that is about 3-5 B and this is a region where the legendary Vidicator Movies come from, puttings Ships on the limit by spending insane ISK amounts on Mods and Imps. 2. Surviability, you are in a BS, and not in a very fast one. Kronos(like other Blaster ships) favour Web Range, this is most times a point of no return, you win or you loose there is no warping out. Once you are in Web Range you will fight it out, and if the enemy bring more numbers than you can handle you are screwed, expensive Fittings will extend your surviablity but won¦t change the fact that once you enter a Fight there is no turning back. 3. Drawbacks, well yes asuming the pricetag Maroders should erase multiply T1 BS in a fight quite easy, like a HAC could take on mutliply cruisers. But most Ships are not active Tanked atm, they have huge Amounts of EHP, slowing Killing down, even with high DPS. So 2 BS allready can give you a very hard fight, 3 will kill you if you don¦t spend Billions on Faction Mods. Faction BS offer more EHP with next to the same DPS and Tanks, while costing less and don¦t have the Drawbacks of weak Sensor Strenght and slow Locking Speed. 4. Risk\Reward, you are using a 700 M BS that payes about 150 M if you loose it. This is only the ship, using a expensive Ship with pure T2 Fitting is a wast so you will get in the 2-3 B Region very quickly. You can counter ECM Drones with Smartbonbs, but a single jamming ship will remove you from the fight quite easy(note this could also happen to other ships, but they have at least a chance to get lock and put Drones on the Jammer. Even if the Sensor Streth Penaly would be not in place you risking a huge amout of ISK for a better active Tank and a bit more DPS. So if people use Maroders for PVP, why not? This ships are prety easy to coutner, have a huge pricetag and putting herself in a very risky position because they can¦t disengange. I would still prefere the Facton BS for the extra HP and the cheaper Pricetag. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.

Lengthy Feline	Posted - 2008.08.15 13:58:00 - [111] /signed
Roemy Schneider BINFORD	Posted - 2008.08.15 14:37:00 - [112] Originally by: The Djego Even with a Domination Web you are limeted to 17km(with Overload). thx for ruining your cred this easily. this one and the previous post were so off reality, it would have taken pages to make you at least consider you're wrong - putting the gist back into logistics
Tarminic 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2008.08.15 22:25:00 - [113] Er...fit at second web? Neither the Kronos or Paladin tank with their mid slots. ---------------- Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.83 (Updated 7/3)
Zo5o Gallente Longcat is Long	Posted - 2008.08.16 01:03:00 - [114] Quote: Er...fit at second web? Neither the Kronos or Paladin tank with their mid slots. My midslot layout on the Kronos for many missions is: Cap Booster Tracking Comp Web AB (for missions with long gates) They're all pretty essential... given the choice between fitting a second web or no web and two tracking comps for omgwtfbbq antimatter optimal, I'd prolly just go with the tracking comps and use drones on frigs. Meaning the newly useless PVE web bonus goes unused. 90% web is useless on pve ship.


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