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Ghoest
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Posted - 2008.08.06 16:08:00 -
[61]
 Originally by: Dirk Magnum
Originally by: Ghoest
Seriously nothing will be done about this till they address the War Dec situation.
Like it or not the Devs agree with common sense.
That the current War decs are just license to grief(yes grief its not about stealing loot its just about giving casual corp with 10 or so players a hard time ussually.)
What happens is some guys make a corp. They dont have good skills maybe one or 2 owns a battleship. They have fun, run missions together and occassionally try out low sec in cruisers or something they can afford to lose.
The a group of high skill players with HACs etc. war decs them. A couple of them get ambushed and losse there best ships, no one can earn any money to replace the ships because their junky ships get ganked quickly.
So what happens? Half the corp quits and the rest moves to an NPC corp and waits a year till they have skills to get recruited to a powerful corp.
Until you fix War Decs you have no choice but to live with the unfortunate side effect of super high skill players never leaving high sec.
A quick-fix to this problem might be to allow a dec'd corp to pay CONCORD to cancel the war. Pricing could be based on how many people are in the corp trying to pay off CONCORD, and it would be a sliding scale so a fifty man corp buying off CONCORD would pay MORE than ten times what a five man corp would pay.
This idea has some flaws but like I said, quick fix. CCP would just have to make sure they told people that this was a temporary solution until they figure out something better.
That wont work at all unless the cost to cancel a War Dec is extremly low. Griefers could easily manipulate your suggestion to be expensive and destroy the corp just as if they were attacking them physically.
Wherever you went - here you are.
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Tippia
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.08.06 16:19:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Minami Sayuri
Regardless of whether they pay for their subscriptions or not, there's no reason a person can't open their own 1-man player corp to do things. Currently the only reason people don't do so is because the NPC corp provides almost absolute safety.
I assume you're in one, since you know this so well…?
Regardless, you're wrong on both accounts: the ones I talk to (and of the two of us, at least we can be sure that I know what I'm talking about) don't open their own 1-man corps because they don't feel they know enough about the game yet; because they like the social aspects of a large corp; and because they like being able to ask people in corp chat.
Are their others that I don't talk to, and who might fit your description? Sure, but I wouldn't know since I don't talk to (or, rather, they don't talk to me). Either way, your generalisation is flat-out wrong.
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Without limiting the activities NPC corp members can participate in, there's really no way to limit the potential for abuse without also hurting the newer players that may rely on that safety.
…and reciprocally, by limiting the activities NPC corpers can do,
you're forcing people to join corps they don't want to be in. Do you really want to trade something "potentially" bad for something actually bad?
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Again, if the changes I stated were implemented, it would obviously be "worth it" for people to leave those NPC corps and at very least form their own corp if they don't like others...
It is never worth to join a corp if I have to endure the idiocies of some CEO I don't know.
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What's the big difference between doing things alone in a 1-man corp and doing things alone with an NPC corp?
The difference is that I can choose. There is some some unfounded assumption floating around that NPC corpers do everything alone. That is false. That's also why the whole "make a 1-man-corp" argument is completely misguided and misinformed.
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I don't see why a person needs to remain in an NPC corp while he builds outside connections.
Because the suggestion was that I wouldn't be able to fly with them. If I can't fly with them, how am I to figure out if I want to play with them?
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Rarely do I see them interact with people outside of the NPC corp with the exception of chatting unless they're an alt.
Interesting. My experience is the exact opposite (and again, I am on an NPC corp, so I would say that I know this with some certainty): the alts sit quiet and do their own thing; the mains socialise quite a lot.
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Kruntologist
Red Eye .Inc.
Rare Faction
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Posted - 2008.08.06 16:23:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Tippia
I don't stay in SAK to stay safe û I do it because I have no way of finding a corp I want to join that I also actually can join. Hopping around between fifty-eleven different corps only to discover that they're all run by megalomaniac numpties is not a solution. In the meantime, the longer I stay in SAK, the more people I get to know there and the less inclined I am to leave.
àthe question in my mind is just how it could be made easier û I really don't have any useful ideas. 
Why not make your own corp with the people you've gotten to know in SAK? If you don't run your corp like a 'megalomaniac numpty' then it should be a raving success. You can also join public channels of prospective corps and chat with them for abit before joining to see if they're closer to your desires in a corp.
Originally by: Dirk Magnum
Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 06/08/2008 14:37:35
I read in the Hello Kitty threadnought someone's suggestion that once somebody hits 5 million SP's they are automatically moved into their Empire's militia as a "global service". That might be a good solution to the problem of security in NPC corps.
I would add to this idea by saying that even if you don't have 5 million SPs but have been in-game for a certain time (maybe the time it takes to train up a friggin Hulk and turn on your macro program) you also get moved into a militia.
No offense but I find quite a few really dumb ideas in that quote.
Perhaps a better idea is that the more SPs you have while in an NPC corp the higher your taxes are. Let the true noobs (>5m SP) enjoy tax free missioning but really drill the 20m+ character (say 30% taxes).
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Esmenet
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.08.06 16:26:00 -
[64]
Since the other thread got locked:
Kick characters out of the NPC corps after about 2 months or gradually increase taxes in npc corps up to 50% after the character is 2 months old. Change wardec mechanics so that every individual character that is wardecced stays wardecced even if they switch corps for the remainder of the time that has been paid for to discourage the lame corphopping.
Vote against the nano nerf! |
Ki An
Gallente
Filiolus Of Bellum
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Posted - 2008.08.06 16:27:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Navigator
Please note that creating multiple duplicate threads on the same subject is considered spamming and may result in a warning or ban. Navigator
Dear Navigator, how come this rule does not apply to the daily threads about suicide ganking and nanos? You could frequently find, not one or two, but up to five or six of those threads on the front page of GD every day. That's not even counting the other forums.
Please apply your rules evenly.
Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
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Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
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Posted - 2008.08.06 16:31:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Ki An
Guys, spread the word! Start your own threads!
Please note that creating multiple duplicate threads on the same subject is considered spamming and may result in a warning or ban. Navigator
You're not playing in the spirit of the game, no warnings, just blam! 
Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav!
Also Known As |
Pithecanthropus
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Posted - 2008.08.06 16:33:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Ki An
Yeah, NPC corps need to be reworked. In line with this new concept of risk/reward by which CCP are basing the nerf to suicide ganks, NPC corps need to have more risk. You can sit in an NPC corp your entire EvE life running lvl 4 missions without any risk what-so-ever. Especially now that suicide ganks are getting nerfed. This needs to be fixed, CCP.
I think that's why they are called NPC corps. If you are concerned about them, that's your problem... they could care less about you. How about you find people who give a shit?
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Pithecanthropus erectus, a name derived from Greek and Latin roots meaning upright ape-man. |
Tippia
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.08.06 16:38:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Kruntologist
Why not make your own corp with the people you've gotten to know in SAK? If you don't run your corp like a 'megalomaniac numpty' then it should be a raving success.
Not if I lead it – that's for sure.  I'd far rather join than lead.
Anyway, attempts have been made, but gaining critical mass and getting the fun ones to join is a fairly large hurdle. Also, the pessimist in me looks at previous attemps and how poorly they fared. That said, I actually agree: that is the best solution, but also the one with the least chance of success. If (when?) it crumbles, I'll be back in an NPC corp and the problem hasn't gone away.
What needs to be solved is the problem of being able to quickly and easily find interesting and worth-while corps.
Quote:
You can also join public channels of prospective corps and chat with them for abit before joining to see if they're closer to your desires in a corp.
Also a good suggestion, but hinges on knowing where to look to begin with, and (if I may derail the thread into another UI whine) getting to that point isn't exactly easy with the tools currently at our disposal…
The forums is another way, but everyone's nuts around here (never mind the fact that those are usually the kind of people I've ended up joining in other MMOs)!
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Minami Sayuri
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Posted - 2008.08.06 16:42:00 -
[69]
Well obviously you have had a very different NPC corp experience than me. I personally never fleeted with a person outside of the NPC corp for the duration that I was in one (and it was a long while). The most interaction I did with people outside of the NPC corp at the time was chat in local. Even with others in the NPC corp, the most I did was chat. Most corps that I don't know don't make it a point to go around and fleet up members of NPC corps because they work with pilots within their own corporation. While I'm sure there are plenty of legit NPC corp players, I don't think that you can deny that the VAST majority of them are alts/spies/scouts/farmers/etc.
Yes, I have run my own 1-man and 2-man corp and it doesn't require much to open it at all nor does it require any significant amount of knowledge of the game.
Nobody's trying to force you to be in a corp that you don't want to be in. The issue at hand is trying to figure out how to make this game fair and sensible for the general populace. Would you then be opposed to players being allowed to war-dec NPC corporations? Probably not because it would hurt people that are legitimate newbies. So how do we go about protecting the new players while discouraging the use of these corporations as a shield from the game whenever it's convenient for them? (ie: hopping out into an NPC corp whenever you get war decced or staying in an NPC corp so that you can run a mining bot)
The answer becomes simply: You need to implement a system that either discourages people from remaining in the NPC corp or encourages people to leave the NPC corp.
The only way to do this is to provide some sort of incentive to leave that corp and in doing so, you naturally have to make things unbalanced in favor of people that are not in NPC corps. You can argue against it all you want, but that's the nature of this game anyway, isn't it? If you pay a certain price, you get a reward. It's a simple concept. You pay the price of your safety in the NPC corp to run better missions or to access better complexes or whatnot. It's the same reason better ores are in lower sec space or why rats give higher bounties in 0.0 than they do in empire space. If everything was equal for everyone regardless of safety, why on earth would ANYONE be in 0.0? They reside there because there is incentive to do it. Until we provide incentive for people to leave NPC corps, then they never will and the people that run to NPC corps whenever there's danger afoot will never feel any consequences for doing so...
If you have a better way to address the situation at hand, then I would love to hear it, but so long as a person in an NPC corp can do everything a person in a player corp can and with less risk, I don't see a fix to the problem.
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Dionisius
Gallente
Sincarnate Holding
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Posted - 2008.08.06 16:44:00 -
[70]
Why don't you simply remove new folks from the starter corps after 15 days trial?
Move them to other NPC corps that have lets say 60%tax on all income.
Or put them in NPC corps and make those NPC corps at war with their direct faction rivals.
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Minami Sayuri
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Posted - 2008.08.06 16:47:00 -
[71]
Edited by: Minami Sayuri on 06/08/2008 16:47:24
Originally by: Dionisius
Why don't you simply remove new folks from the starter corps after 15 days trial?
Move them to other NPC corps that have lets say 60%tax on all income.
Legitimate beginners would be severely hampered by such a system along with the others.
Originally by: Dionisius
Or put them in NPC corps and make those NPC corps at war with their direct faction rivals.
This is factional warfare and it's optional for a reason. There's far too much risk for griefing to force people into this...
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Dionisius
Gallente
Sincarnate Holding
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Posted - 2008.08.06 16:54:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Minami Sayuri
Edited by: Minami Sayuri on 06/08/2008 16:47:24
Originally by: Dionisius
Why don't you simply remove new folks from the starter corps after 15 days trial?
Move them to other NPC corps that have lets say 60%tax on all income.
Legitimate beginners would be severely hampered by such a system along with the others.
Legitimate begginers have plenty of time to create their own corp and start doingt their own thing. it isn't that difficult and in high sec its a cake walk.
Originally by: Minami Sayuri
Originally by: Dionisius
Or put them in NPC corps and make those NPC corps at war with their direct faction rivals.
This is factional warfare and it's optional for a reason. There's far too much risk for griefing to force people into this...
EvE is at war , your point?
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Kruntologist
Red Eye .Inc.
Rare Faction
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Posted - 2008.08.06 17:00:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Tippia
Not if I lead it û that's for sure. I'd far rather join than lead.
Anyway, attempts have been made, but gaining critical mass and getting the fun ones to join is a fairly large hurdle. Also, the pessimist in me looks at previous attemps and how poorly they fared. That said, I actually agree: that is the best solution, but also the one with the least chance of success. If (when?) it crumbles, I'll be back in an NPC corp and the problem hasn't gone away.
What needs to be solved is the problem of being able to quickly and easily find interesting and worth-while corps.
If it was easy then EVERYONE would do it. However, I often find that NPC corps are filled with "too many indians, not enough chiefs" syndrome (ie too many followers, too few leaders). CCP can't fix that no matter how snazzy they make the UI or how 'easy' they make it to find a corp that fits you. While starting your own corp *may* eventually fail it is also one of the most rewarding things you can ingame (both on a personal level and ISK-wise tbh). I see it completely fitting with the risk v. reward thing that EVE is based upon.
Quote:
The forums is another way, but everyone's nuts around here (never mind the fact that those are usually the kind of people I've ended up joining in other MMOs)!
The forums ARE your solution to "the problem of being able to quickly and easily find interesting and worth-while corps". You make a post in the Recruitment forum listing what you want/expect out of a corp, play time, level of commitment to the game (casual player playing a few hours a week to 'hardcore' player that plays 4+ hours a night) and weigh your offers from there.
CCP can no more help you pick a corp than I can for a very simple reason. Neither of us knows you and you want/expect from a corp. Do you want strict discipline (merc corp?) or so much freedom that your corp is basically a glorified chat room? Do you want to put alot of effort into the corp and have them subsidize your playing by buying skillbooks/ships/mods (ie communist corp) or do you want to be self sufficient? None of this is even taking into account all the shades of grey available.
In the end YOU are the one that has to spend the effort into at least half-ass start looking for a corp you like. That onus is NOT CCP's problem.
BTW, it is perfectly acceptable (IMO) to for a newly joined player to put their new corp on a probation just like the corp will undoubtedly have you. Upon joining don't immediately rush to move all your assets 30+ jumps away. Give them a set period of time to see if they fill your expectations within reason (keep in mind they most likely will not offer billions of ISK of support to the newest "Johnny come lately" member. They should definately offer SOMETHING worthwhile to you however while they have you on probation. If they pass your probation THEN commit to moving your stuff 30+ jumps if need be.
I'm honestly not trying to be harsh but I do think you're expecting way too much out of CCP here.
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Tippia
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.08.06 17:01:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Minami Sayuri
While I'm sure there are plenty of legit NPC corp players, I don't think that you can deny that the VAST majority of them are alts/spies/scouts/farmers/etc.
I can't – and certainly won't — deny that there are a lot of them; whether they are a vast majority or not is something I can't say for certain. Like I said, the ones I interact with are the ones who… well, interact, and I know what they do. Some of them are alts; most are not.
Quote:
Nobody's trying to force you to be in a corp that you don't want to be in. The issue at hand is trying to figure out how to make this game fair and sensible for the general populace. Would you then be opposed to players being allowed to war-dec NPC corporations?
Agreed – that is the problem. However, discussion on the topic so often descent into the "kick them out" line of arugmentation, which leads nowhere.
Quote:
If you have a better way to address the situation at hand, then I would love to hear it, but so long as a person in an NPC corp can do everything a person in a player corp can and with less risk, I don't see a fix to the problem.
One idea that at least I have no problems signing is to slap some pretty nasty the tax rates onto NPC corps. I can just look at the silly amounts of available cash I have laying around and see that the cost of living could be increased quite a bit before it even started to hurt. IMO, that would pretty much do what's required: people who want to stay safe pay a hefty price; people who want to farm will leave; people who don't care either way… well, by definition, they won't care.
Another idea mentioned elsewhere (don't remember where now) was to rework the bounty system to more or less become single-person wardecs. No mass-griefing of n00bs, but you can still go after the really annoying buggers and the farmers. To turn it into a carrot for joining PC corps, make sure aggression is corp-wide (same as how stealing works now, basically) so they can come and help you.
Suggestions? Counterpoints?
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Xavier Zedicus
Priory of Zorrabed
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Posted - 2008.08.06 17:08:00 -
[75]
Some people enjoy casual mission running, get over it.
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Caliwyrm O'Libr
Dark Prophecy Inc.
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.08.06 17:12:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Dionisius
Legitimate begginers have plenty of time to create their own corp and start doingt their own thing. it isn't that difficult and in high sec its a cake walk.
*Legitimate* beginners have enough to spend their very limited ISK on besides the 1m Corp creation cost. When was the last time you created and played a 100% untwinked alt?
Originally by: Minami Sayuri
Originally by: Dionisius
Or put them in NPC corps and make those NPC corps at war with their direct faction rivals.
This is factional warfare and it's optional for a reason. There's far too much risk for griefing to force people into this...
EvE is at war , your point?
If there wasn't such a harsh penalty for dying in EVE I'd agree with you. However, we're back to the matter of available ISK for truly new players. They have a hard enough time replacing frigates/destroyers lost in L1 and L2 missions let alone being slaughtered (and that's what it would be) repeatedly by '07 players.
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Talk is cheap because supply always outweighs demand.. |
Tippia
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.08.06 17:23:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Kruntologist
If it was easy then EVERYONE would do it. However, I often find that NPC corps are filled with "too many indians, not enough chiefs" syndrome (ie too many followers, too few leaders).
No doubt, but that's also why I lean more towards improving the "discovery" mechanics (technical and social limtations aside). Also, just to be clear: I certainly don't expect CCP to magically turn people into leaders – I'm more looking for ways of finding the leaders that already exist. This can range from corp rankings to activity metrics to more granular corp descriptions to whoknowswhat.
Quote:
I'm honestly not trying to be harsh but I do think you're expecting way too much out of CCP here.
You're not being harsh, but I think you might overestimate what I expect. I don't mind making an effort to hunt down a corp, but right now, there's so little to go on even if I do make that effort. Also, you alude to a different, but somewhat related, problem: right now, it's easier to put up a recruitment post and hope someone wants to recruit you (an almost completely passive process) than it is to be proactive about it and find the corp yourself.
I do think that this could be improved.
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Kruntologist
Red Eye .Inc.
Rare Faction
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Posted - 2008.08.06 17:32:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Tippia
I don't mind making an effort to hunt down a corp, but right now, there's so little to go on even if I do make that effort. Also, you alude to a different, but somewhat related, problem: right now, it's easier to put up a recruitment post and hope someone wants to recruit you (an almost completely passive process) than it is to be proactive about it and find the corp yourself.
I do think that this could be improved.
Why not ask for a list of corps with public channels in the Recruitment forums? Once you have the list you can be as proactive as you want in finding a corp to suit you. One thing about public channels, however: Like any other channel it can sometimes take a bit to get the ball rolling. If someone is in a corp with a public chat they could possibly have a TON of windows open (corp, alliance, directors, intel channel(s) plus the public channel) so it can (and in my experience does) take more than a few minutes to get someone to talk to you.
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Tchell Dahhn
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.08.06 17:34:00 -
[79]
I'll be honest, I didn't read all of the suggestions, but here's mine:
There are a limited number of NPC Corporations out there, so how about having them limit the number of Members who can run Missions on behalf of that Corporation or Group?
That way, if there was some type of 'queue' where NPC Corp Members had to wait in line to run Missions they wanted, or else, jump into a Player Corp to do the same thing instantly, they would likely jump to a Player Corp.
(I don't run Missions, and I never will, so if I'm missing some key information here, let me know.)
Another idea I had was to have a mandatory 'kick out' period, after which, an NPC Corporation would say, "you're on your own - fly safe!" and eject the Player into a random "Second Tier" NPC Corporation (wait for it) which could be Wardecced. Limit the number of people in said Corp to 100, let's say, and voila. You have a rush of Second Tier NPC Players rushing to get into a better protected Player Corporation.
Both ideas need work, but hey, that's what you get from me on the spur of the moment.
We're Recruiting! |
Minami Sayuri
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Posted - 2008.08.06 17:42:00 -
[80]
Well my suggestions were an attempt to aim more at taxing the higher end game for people in NPC corps while at the same time preserving the lower end game that the newbies rely on. Heavy taxes across the board is not the answer because it hurts newer player who have a limited income to begin with. I think at very least significantly reducing the rewards for L4 missions for NPC corp members would help because by that point, a player will have been in the game long enough to accumulate some SP and ISK and it would also discourage people from just staying in the NPC corp to spam L4 missions. I honestly have no solution for the afk mining situation that's going on because I've no idea how that could possibly be governed without screwing up an entire newbie profession.
I do like the idea of reworking the bounty system since I feel the system is broken atm. Perhaps allowing the sale/trade of kill rights would make it more meaningful. That way a bounty hunter could buy the kill rights from someone that was wronged and collect the bounty upon killing the target (who could be killed anywhere because the bounty hunter would have gotten the kill rights). This prevents people placing arbitrary bounties on random peoples' heads and making them open targets since you would still need to buy the kill rights to attack the person in empire. A system like that would definitely help somewhat with the wardec thing...
At any rate, the answer isn't something like throwing people out after a given number of days or forcing them into a factional empire war... We need to focus on a solution that affects people at the higher end of the game more than people just starting out. My suggestions are all I could think of at the moment.
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Mire Stoude
Cash Money Brothers
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2008.08.06 18:04:00 -
[81]
As someone who supports the recent changes, I also support this. Players shouldn't be able to do certain things if they are in a NPC corp (FW would be an exception). They shouldn't be able to undock in an exhumer/barge or run level 4 missions.
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Webster Carr
Gallente
Magellan Exploration and Survey
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Posted - 2008.08.06 21:24:00 -
[82]
Explain to me the problem with people being in NPC corps... You can't war dec them and they can't war dec you, they can't fight you and you can't fight them except in low sec (barring suicide ganking) it seems balanced so what's the issue?
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Maximillian Bayonette
White Lion Manufacture and Salvage
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Posted - 2008.08.06 21:34:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Webster Carr
Explain to me the problem with people being in NPC corps... You can't war dec them and they can't war dec you, they can't fight you and you can't fight them except in low sec (barring suicide ganking) it seems balanced so what's the issue?
The problem is that they live in a protected bubble with regards to everything that can actually hurt them. However, they still use the market, and as such can manipulate the game for others. Not knowingly manipulate of course, but still.
Also, it is common practise for 0.0 alliances to keep noob corp freighter pilots. That way they can move about in Empire virtually risk free. There is no way to hit them (and thereby the infrastructure of your enemy) except suicide ganks. Now that's getting nerfed.
There is also the fairness argument, but there's no need to get into that.
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Tippia
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.08.06 21:34:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Webster Carr
You can't war dec them and they can't war dec you, they can't fight you and you can't fight them except in low sec (barring suicide ganking) it seems balanced so what's the issue?
That is the issue. People shouldn't be able to avoid PvP in a PvP-centric game.
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soldieroffortune 258
Gallente
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2008.08.06 21:46:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Neesa Corrinne
Originally by: NeoTheo
over 5 million SP, you become wardecable.
however its achieved.
I endorse this message.
eh, it might be buggy a bit, but i do reluctantly agree
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Dionisius
Gallente
Sincarnate Holding
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Posted - 2008.08.06 21:50:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Caliwyrm O'Libr
Originally by: Dionisius
Legitimate begginers have plenty of time to create their own corp and start doingt their own thing. it isn't that difficult and in high sec its a cake walk.
*Legitimate* beginners have enough to spend their very limited ISK on besides the 1m Corp creation cost. When was the last time you created and played a 100% untwinked alt?
I have 3 main characters.
Originally by: Minami Sayuri
Originally by: Dionisius
Or put them in NPC corps and make those NPC corps at war with their direct faction rivals.
This is factional warfare and it's optional for a reason. There's far too much risk for griefing to force people into this...
EvE is at war , your point?
If there wasn't such a harsh penalty for dying in EVE I'd agree with you. However, we're back to the matter of available ISK for truly new players. They have a hard enough time replacing frigates/destroyers lost in L1 and L2 missions let alone being slaughtered (and that's what it would be) repeatedly by '07 players.
Ever since i started EvE has a merc i went into lowsec, minus the first month of the game.
I was chased, podded, smacked and laughed at, i chased, i podded i smacked and i laughed at random people and circumstances.
Did i leave EvE? No.
Did i get along with low wallet and t1 ships?
Yes in fact i miss those mid 2006 days were i tackled my first target ( from -V- ) in my trusty Tristan frigate, i still remember him laughing at me and calling me " n00b " only to smack his lungs out after 1 frigate and 3 cruisers ripped his battlecruiser to pieces.
I still remember crossing half aridia to enter sakht and 1-smeb for the first time in my thorax, those dreaded 15km between warps make me wet my panties countless times, i passed numerous gatecamps just to spent my first 2 days in 0.0, was the most exciting run in my whole EvE life.
Like me many other corp mates and other fellow EvE players did the same, we did not complain, we adapted and laughed at circumstances.
So penalty? Dificulty making ISK ? I made 40 mil on my first EvE month in my second account just running missions for caldari navy in highsec, between modules, refining, bountys, mission rewards and minerals.
Highsec is a cakewalk, pardon my french, but if people think the way high sec is that its difficult then they better stay there forever because low sec and 0.0 will look like hell for them.
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Pr1ncess Alia
Caldari
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.08.06 21:55:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Tippia
Personal wardecs? Hmmmà might be a solution. Throw in a change in the bounty system and attach it to that, and I think there might be some merit to that idea.
Germany's declared war on the Jones boys!
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2008.08.06 22:14:00 -
[88]
Originally by: ccp navigator
Please note that creating multiple duplicate threads on the same subject is considered spamming and may result in a warning or ban. Navigator
Oh really? Then where the hell were you in sucide gank whine threads 2-4746?
You couldnt make this up.
SKUNK
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Maximillian Bayonette
White Lion Manufacture and Salvage
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Posted - 2008.08.06 22:25:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Webster Carr
People have different ways of playing the game, for some people it is NOT a PVP-centric game. For plenty of others it is. Why do you NEED to be able to war dec an NPC corp filled with those who either don't know how are don't care to PVP? There are plenty of player corps which should provide more of an interesting challenge for a war...
I think Ruze said it best in another thread, so I'll just quote him:
Originally by: Ruze
First, I want to say that I've never looked at the macrominer reasoning as anything more than an excuse.
But, there's also another reason. See, EvE is a PvP-centric game. When you then create an area centered on PvE and ONLY PvE, you are taking away the PvP side.
What's wrong with that, you say? Well, let's put it this way. Imagine if every game on the market was the same. In each one, it allowed open PvP anywhere, with PKers and griefers running rampant. Then, imagine you found ONE game on the entire market, JUST ONE, that allowed players to PvE to their hearts content.
That's what EvE is, but the opposite. There are hundreds of games out there with loads of NPC mission running and killing goblins and nuking bad guys all you want. But there's only EvE for those who want a full and open PvP world. It's the ONLY game on the market that is well-designed, includes a great backstory, and is built on a PvP base.
The more it changes, the less appeal it has for those who are here because of that. And we have nowhere else to go. You can get PvE in hundreds of MMO's, from Tabula Rasa to World of Warcraft. But none of them include the bitterness and glory of EvE's PvP world.
So while many of you see this as a 'why can't I' IN THIS GAME ONLY, many of 'us' are looking at having no place left for our style of play. There's nowhere to go after EvE. There is no other product to fit the bill, that doesn't fall into the usless kill-die-respawn of Counter Strike or Battlefield.
EvE is about PvP. The more that changes, the less reason many of us have to play. Good for you though, right? As long as you have your high-sec, and are not involved in any way in the real MEANING and DESIGN of EvE, your happy, no? So while you feel so many players are disrespecting your choice of game to play, realize that your not just taking this game from us. We have nothing to go to.
That about sums up my feelings too.
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Webster Carr
Gallente
Magellan Exploration and Survey
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Posted - 2008.08.06 22:29:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Maximillian Bayonette
Originally by: Webster Carr
Explain to me the problem with people being in NPC corps... You can't war dec them and they can't war dec you, they can't fight you and you can't fight them except in low sec (barring suicide ganking) it seems balanced so what's the issue?
The problem is that they live in a protected bubble with regards to everything that can actually hurt them. However, they still use the market, and as such can manipulate the game for others. Not knowingly manipulate of course, but still.
Also, it is common practise for 0.0 alliances to keep noob corp freighter pilots. That way they can move about in Empire virtually risk free. There is no way to hit them (and thereby the infrastructure of your enemy) except suicide ganks. Now that's getting nerfed.
There is also the fairness argument, but there's no need to get into that.
I don't see a fairness issue. Besides not being able to blow someone up that's talking smack unless they come to low sec...and really aren't we a bit more adult that that?
Using 'neutral' shipping for supply is pretty unavoidable...Now in order to use said materials they have to enter low sec at some point...and then they're fair game. I think far more people want to war dec NPC corps as a griefing mechanism to find low risk PVP targets than any other possible reason. The 'gain' to the game by allowing just doesn't seem to outweigh the downside...
Webb
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