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Arpiter	Posted - 2008.08.07 12:08:00 - [1] Ultime Online started hardcore. Eventually it got popular and people started crying about being killed and ganked and scammed. So they made a pretty little world called Trammel where everyone could be safe and frolick and play without fear of death. Now EVE is going down the same path this anti suicide ganker stuff is the first step. Did eve hire koster for advice on how to run a MMO? bad ccp
Karanth Gallente Eve's Brothers of Destiny FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.08.07 12:09:00 - [2] NGE? In MY Eve!? Warp Speed skill needed!
northwesten Amarr Trinity Corporate Services	Posted - 2008.08.07 12:10:00 - [3] Originally by: Arpiter Ultime Online started hardcore. Eventually it got popular and people started crying about being killed and ganked and scammed. So they made a pretty little world called Trammel where everyone could be safe and frolick and play without fear of death. Now EVE is going down the same path this anti suicide ganker stuff is the first step. Did eve hire koster for advice on how to run a MMO? bad ccp people like you ruin EVE not nerfing its balancing it! Trinity Corporate Services
Sweet Rosella	Posted - 2008.08.07 12:10:00 - [4] Originally by: Arpiter Ultime Online started hardcore. Eventually it got popular and people started crying about being killed and ganked and scammed. So they made a pretty little world called Trammel where everyone could be safe and frolick and play without fear of death. Now EVE is going down the same path this anti suicide ganker stuff is the first step. Did eve hire koster for advice on how to run a MMO? bad ccp so true CCP is showing no loyalty to the subscribers that have been playing this game since beta.
Mazzarins Demise Profit Development and Research Association	Posted - 2008.08.07 12:11:00 - [5] Edited by: Mazzarins Demise on 07/08/2008 12:10:59 Originally by: Arpiter Ultime Online started hardcore. Eventually it got popular and people started crying about being killed and ganked and scammed. So they made a pretty little world called Trammel where everyone could be safe and frolick and play without fear of death. Now EVE is going down the same path this anti suicide ganker stuff is the first step. Did eve hire koster for advice on how to run a MMO? bad ccp I can agree with you only to a point. Unlike Trammel, you can still suicide gank and kill people in Highsec. It's just a little harder than before, that's all. People will still do it. Hopefully though, the DEVs are smart enough to not follow down that same road completely. - 8 year Ultima Online Vet
Thargat Caldari North Star Networks Black Hand.	Posted - 2008.08.07 12:11:00 - [6] The similarities between first release UO and Eve is what made me start playing Eve. When UO went cozy I stopped playing. Oh and multisharding is teh suxx. There's only one sig that matters... and that's Radius.
Sweet Rosella	Posted - 2008.08.07 12:11:00 - [7] Originally by: northwesten Originally by: Arpiter Ultime Online started hardcore. Eventually it got popular and people started crying about being killed and ganked and scammed. So they made a pretty little world called Trammel where everyone could be safe and frolick and play without fear of death. Now EVE is going down the same path this anti suicide ganker stuff is the first step. Did eve hire koster for advice on how to run a MMO? bad ccp people like you ruin EVE not nerfing its balancing it! not true, you would of thought afetr 5 yrs they would get the balance right, but no, its all about the numbers.
Nyphur Pillowsoft	Posted - 2008.08.07 12:13:00 - [8] I'm not convinced that's the direction EVE is taking at all but if it turns out to be, it will be a big loss. From what I've read, Trammel in UO caused the hunters and their prey to be separated, resulting in a server full of hunters with no prey and a server full of invulnerable prey with no pvp challenges to keep the game interesting. We can't all be cowboys, someone needs to play the injuns. Pillowsoft - Join the Pillowsoft Gallente Militia, get free ships and support.
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.08.07 12:15:00 - [9] First, the suicide balance was overdue. It just took out the unending profit of the matter, and people were using disposable alts way too frequently. Second, EvE has been changing since way before that. Give it another year, maybe two, and we'll either be seeing some form of CONCORD intervention in low-sec, or CCP will shard EvE to provide a PvP-free world. The new players who have joined over the past year, especially, have seen no proof outside of the occasional 'suicide grief gank' that EvE is not playable as a PvE only game. Nothing the devs have done has shown them this. And all the players do is act like griefers ... and most pvp players do ... which doesn't talk ANYONE into wanting to PvP. Lag will get worse in mission hubs. NPC corps and single-man corps will see much more use. We'll lose the ability to carry out a wardec in hisec. We'll lose the ability to suicide gank without severe penalization. And the game will continue to split along the Empire line, between the money making area, and the PvP battleground. Everything else will be left to 0.0, where alliances do their own thing. It's coming. It has been coming, and it'll continue. Because players aren't joining EvE to play EvE, they are joining EvE to play only 25% of the game. "The greatest offense is no defense."
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2008.08.07 12:15:00 - [10] Originally by: Sweet Rosella Originally by: Arpiter Ultime Online started hardcore. Eventually it got popular and people started crying about being killed and ganked and scammed. So they made a pretty little world called Trammel where everyone could be safe and frolick and play without fear of death. Now EVE is going down the same path this anti suicide ganker stuff is the first step. Did eve hire koster for advice on how to run a MMO? bad ccp so true CCP is showing no loyalty to the subscribers that have been playing this game since beta. Welcome to the real world - are you new here? It's called running a business. They know that the vast majority of us will cancel our subscriptions and switch to another game as soon as one becomes available. They know how fickle customers are - and computer game players are amongst some of the most fickle. I'm sure they hope and plan for a long lasting game but they are not fools. They are maximising their profits while they can and good for them. -- (Sarcastic mission running veteran, 4+ years) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
Gealbhan Caldari Infernal Syndicate	Posted - 2008.08.07 12:17:00 - [11] Originally by: Arpiter Ultime Online started hardcore. Eventually it got popular and people started crying about being killed and ganked and scammed. So they made a pretty little world called Trammel where everyone could be safe and frolick and play without fear of death. Now EVE is going down the same path this anti suicide ganker stuff is the first step. Did eve hire koster for advice on how to run a MMO? bad ccp Couldn't have said it better myself. I left UO when it split in two and 3/4 of the population went to Trammel, the PvP side as in Felucca, died. The community was broken, player towns and events ceased to be. UO has been in decline ever since they split it, it used to have 250,000 subscribers, now it can barely sc**** up 70k. PvPers need a game to congregate in, Eve-o was it but they're going to repeat UO's mistake and die off too. CCP are pandering to the quick buck of the WoW blow-ins whining that EvE is too tough etc etc. They'll all leave when something new comes out and their legacy of whine and nerfs will leave this game a shattered heap of its former self. That day will come!
Zhenga	Posted - 2008.08.07 12:18:00 - [12] Originally by: northwesten Originally by: Arpiter Ultime Online started hardcore. Eventually it got popular and people started crying about being killed and ganked and scammed. So they made a pretty little world called Trammel where everyone could be safe and frolick and play without fear of death. Now EVE is going down the same path this anti suicide ganker stuff is the first step. Did eve hire koster for advice on how to run a MMO? bad ccp people like you ruin EVE not nerfing its balancing it! What is it balancing it to? Lvl 4 missions?
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2008.08.07 12:20:00 - [13] Originally by: Sweet Rosella Originally by: Arpiter Ultime Online started hardcore. Eventually it got popular and people started crying about being killed and ganked and scammed. So they made a pretty little world called Trammel where everyone could be safe and frolick and play without fear of death. Now EVE is going down the same path this anti suicide ganker stuff is the first step. Did eve hire koster for advice on how to run a MMO? bad ccp so true CCP is showing no loyalty to the subscribers that have been playing this game since beta. You've been here since beta? Don't even start to assume you speak for me and what I've been waiting for. I for one welcome the new developments and see them as CCP filling in the gaps and making it a more complete game. Moderators lock on to the OP, he seems to be on a posting spree. Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav! Also Known As
Abrazzar	Posted - 2008.08.07 12:22:00 - [14] GB2CS! -------- Ideas for: Mining
testalt01	Posted - 2008.08.07 12:22:00 - [15] I am sorry I must be missing something here... Did CCP completely remove suicide ganking from the game? Did they make it impossible to lock and shoot the crap out of ships and players in high sec? No, they made suicide ganking a bit more costly for the attacker. It will still be a viable activity to gank haulers carrying several hundred million in loot on autopilot. It will still be a viable activity to kill shuttles carrying expensive implants and faction items. You will still be able to smartbomb packs of miners. You will still be able to kill officer fitted CNRs. . . . So what are we whining about in this thread again?
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2008.08.07 12:23:00 - [16] IF YOU DON'T DISAGREE WITH EVERY NERF THAT CCP HAVE EVER MADE EVEN THE ONES THAT HAVE BEEN SHOWN TO HAVE HAD ULTIMATELY BENEFICIAL EFFECTS YOU'RE NOT A TRUE FAN. ----- CEO, Mixed Metaphor Dance Commander Asuka Smith > not even goons can make 30m ISK this interesting.
Ringo Jeicha Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.08.07 12:24:00 - [17] Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhh, they make it too hard for me to get easy lulz... --- Braaaiiinnnsssssssssss
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2008.08.07 12:25:00 - [18] Originally by: Andreus Ixiris IF YOU DON'T DISAGREE WITH EVERY NERF THAT CCP HAVE EVER MADE EVEN THE ONES THAT HAVE BEEN SHOWN TO HAVE HAD ULTIMATELY BENEFICIAL EFFECTS YOU'RE NOT A TRUE FAN. I spank you because I love you? Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav! Also Known As
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.08.07 12:26:00 - [19] Originally by: testalt01 I am sorry I must be missing something here... Did CCP completely remove suicide ganking from the game? Did they make it impossible to lock and shoot the crap out of ships and players in high sec? No, they made suicide ganking a bit more costly for the attacker. It will still be a viable activity to gank haulers carrying several hundred million in loot on autopilot. It will still be a viable activity to kill shuttles carrying expensive implants and faction items. You will still be able to smartbomb packs of miners. You will still be able to kill officer fitted CNRs. . . . So what are we whining about in this thread again? It's not this one change that we're complaining about. It's the overall arc. This change is a good one, I feel, but it doesn't change the steady decline of the game from a niche game for a niche playerbase, to a mainstream game that appeals to the lowest common denominator. It's just pure economics. CCP can make more money by pandering to the larger audience. UO did the same thing, as did EQ. If that audience is you, then have no fear. But there are a bunch of players who remember the OLD UO fondly. You might look out and see the players in low-sec as nothing but cruel greifers and sadistic bastards. They look at you and the 'carebears' as the majority-rule that continues to ruin game after game. Personally, I'm a carebear, but I think the UO analogy is right on the money. "The greatest offense is no defense."
Pesadel0 Minmatar Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.08.07 12:26:00 - [20] Originally by: Danton Marcellus Originally by: Andreus Ixiris IF YOU DON'T DISAGREE WITH EVERY NERF THAT CCP HAVE EVER MADE EVEN THE ONES THAT HAVE BEEN SHOWN TO HAVE HAD ULTIMATELY BENEFICIAL EFFECTS YOU'RE NOT A TRUE FAN. I spank you because I love you? In a sense yes. ------------------------------------------------------------------
FDUSPYZOR	Posted - 2008.08.07 12:28:00 - [21] Making suicide ganking harder is the death of PvP in Eve? Sure, if all you do all day is suicide gank people.
Ranger 1 Amarr Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.08.07 12:34:00 - [22] Oh suck it up people. You either know what you are doing (and will be fine), or you don't (and will give up because the classic empire suicide gank is "too hard" now). It's amusing actually. The whine is that EVE is becoming a pink fluffy place with no challenges for the player base. The truth is that certain types of gameplay just got much more challenging to do successfully. Anyone else see the irony?
Goktar illiat Gallente Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2008.08.07 12:35:00 - [23] Actually you could "train" some badass mobs onto the TRAMMEL noob, then loot their nice vanq weapons they never thought they could loose.
Pesadel0 Minmatar Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.08.07 12:35:00 - [24] Originally by: Ranger 1 Oh suck it up people. You either know what you are doing (and will be fine), or you don't (and will give up because the classic empire suicide gank is "too hard" now). It's amusing actually. The whine is that EVE is becoming a pink fluffy place with no challenges for the player base. The truth is that certain types of gameplay just got much more challenging to do successfully. Anyone else see the irony? Nop i can¦t can you elaborate? ------------------------------------------------------------------
Schalac Caldari Brotherhood of Wolves	Posted - 2008.08.07 12:37:00 - [25] NO. Support me on my campaign to keep EVE a cruel dark and ruthless universe that we have come to love. Suicide gank people. War dec people. do it for the love of EVE just do it.
testalt01	Posted - 2008.08.07 12:39:00 - [26] Originally by: Ruze It's not this one change that we're complaining about. It's the overall arc. This change is a good one, I feel, but it doesn't change the steady decline of the game from a niche game for a niche playerbase, to a mainstream game that appeals to the lowest common denominator. It's just pure economics. CCP can make more money by pandering to the larger audience. UO did the same thing, as did EQ and SWG. If that audience is you, then have no fear. But there are a bunch of players who remember the OLD UO fondly. You might look out and see the players in low-sec as nothing but cruel greifers and sadistic bastards. They look at you and the 'carebears' as the majority-rule that continues to ruin game after game. Personally, I'm a carebear, but I think the UO analogy is right on the money. There is nothing wrong to catering to larger player base as long as you don't kill the game while you are at it. A lot of players are treating this move as if by making a suicide ganker pay 3-50 mil more for his ganks the developers are ultimately killing EVE and going back on their promise of pvp everywhere and anywhere. While in reality all this will do is raise the bar on price of gank-worthy cargo. CCP hasn't banned PVP from high sec. And in fact, in the past years they have made PVP much more accessible, as EVE has went through a huge deflation in prices on ships and mods while it has never been as easy for players to make ISK, especially new players, to fund combat.
Deviana Sevidon Gallente Panta-Rhei United Front Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.07 12:40:00 - [27] Edited by: Deviana Sevidon on 07/08/2008 12:40:06 The changes in security hits when suicide ganking someone, will really not change much. <<< Counterstrike is that way >>> World of Warcraft is the other way. Or adapt and stay. Your choice.
northwesten Amarr Trinity Corporate Services	Posted - 2008.08.07 12:43:00 - [28] Originally by: Zhenga Originally by: northwesten Originally by: Arpiter Ultime Online started hardcore. Eventually it got popular and people started crying about being killed and ganked and scammed. So they made a pretty little world called Trammel where everyone could be safe and frolick and play without fear of death. Now EVE is going down the same path this anti suicide ganker stuff is the first step. Did eve hire koster for advice on how to run a MMO? bad ccp people like you ruin EVE not nerfing its balancing it! What is it balancing it to? Lvl 4 missions? lvl 4 need balancing Suicide ganking in high sec shouldn't be so easy! Doesn't hurt there wallet as much and sec? meh who cares! I can go on and on and no High Sec shouldn't be safe! nor should it. Tho it's not balanced in many ways and with GTC going on its too easy! EVE no way soft! It's harsh and still is. People come on here and use Real money to replace there wallets and I love to make it harder for them and if they want to spend more RL money on isk then good there dumb to do so. There plenty of balancing to do! If you dont see that then you dont understand EVE at all! Trinity Corporate Services
Nexus1972 Pat Sharp's Potato Rodeo Daedalus Hegemony	Posted - 2008.08.07 12:53:00 - [29] Originally by: Sweet Rosella Originally by: Arpiter Ultime Online started hardcore. Eventually it got popular and people started crying about being killed and ganked and scammed. So they made a pretty little world called Trammel where everyone could be safe and frolick and play without fear of death. Now EVE is going down the same path this anti suicide ganker stuff is the first step. Did eve hire koster for advice on how to run a MMO? bad ccp so true CCP is showing no loyalty to the subscribers that have been playing this game since beta. Its not the players that have been playing since beta that bring in the big bucks for CCP, its the more recent people. At the end of the day all games evolve or people would get bored of them. If CCP want to expand the number of users game mechanics have to evolve or the userbase will stagnate and die. Everytime a big change is made the forums suddenly come alive with people complaining, but ultimately numbers keep going up. CCP dont particularly care about old users nor does it 'owe' them. CCP want more and more users, that isnt going to come from loytalty to long term players, but appealing to new players. I've had a couple of friends that started play9ing the game and within 2 weeks one of them was killed in Jita carrying nothing more than a +2 implant he just bought. --------------------- Pat Sharpe's Potato Rodeo
Pesadel0 Minmatar Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.08.07 12:54:00 - [30] Originally by: Nexus1972 Originally by: Sweet Rosella Originally by: Arpiter Ultime Online started hardcore. Eventually it got popular and people started crying about being killed and ganked and scammed. So they made a pretty little world called Trammel where everyone could be safe and frolick and play without fear of death. Now EVE is going down the same path this anti suicide ganker stuff is the first step. Did eve hire koster for advice on how to run a MMO? bad ccp so true CCP is showing no loyalty to the subscribers that have been playing this game since beta. Its not the players that have been playing since beta that bring in the big bucks for CCP, its the more recent people. At the end of the day all games evolve or people would get bored of them. If CCP want to expand the number of users game mechanics have to evolve or the userbase will stagnate and die. Everytime a big change is made the forums suddenly come alive with people complaining, but ultimately numbers keep going up. CCP dont particularly care about old users nor does it 'owe' them. CCP want more and more users, that isnt going to come from loytalty to long term players, but appealing to new players. I've had a couple of friends that started play9ing the game and within 2 weeks one of them was killed in Jita carrying nothing more than a +2 implant he just bought. You know by that logic UO should be flourishing rigth now,take a wild guess ,yep that is right it isn't. ------------------------------------------------------------------

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