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Is Eve Turning care-bear?? Honest opinions please

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Liz Laser	Posted - 2008.08.12 16:18:00 - [91] Originally by: Ruze In my opinion, there's nothing wrong with people finding out they don't like EvE. Well said.
Mordekai Bloodwake The Phoenix Enclave	Posted - 2008.08.12 16:20:00 - [92] Originally by: Ruze Originally by: Mordekai Bloodwake Well like it or not CCP is already hard trucking looking for a higher subscriber base. A great example is seeing an Eve-Online commercial on the Sci-Fi channel, i mean if that doesnt scream MORE MORE MORE then i dont know what will! And as much as i hate to say it, CCP will have to cater to the masses in order to attract more players and that means getting way from its (as you called it) 'niche' subsection and more mainstream and player friendly. But you seem to refuse to accept that EvE attracts more players each day, without yet 'catering to the masses', so to speak. Their market so far has grown from word of mouth, etc. As it continues to grow and is marketed better, it will get many thousands of players who come on, see that they don't like EvE, then leave. But there will always be that strong percentage who come online, see how EvE is different, rise to the challenge, and stay. I'm hoping that CCP doesn't bend to 'keep' that already fickle player surge. In my opinion, there's nothing wrong with people finding out they don't like EvE. You can't please everyone. I never said Eve doesnt attract players, its their retention. i would dare say perhaps 3 out of 10 players that use the trial period to test eve stay while the rest leave, thats not a good number to increase subscription and will be hard to see eve put out quality expansions, fix bugs and continue to invest in a lag free fleet combat if they can not staff enough developers to do so.
Niccolado Starwalker Shadow Templars	Posted - 2008.08.12 16:24:00 - [93] Edited by: Niccolado Starwalker on 12/08/2008 16:24:47 Originally by: Gretzel What are peoples honest opinions of EVE going care bear. Just wondering if this is time to jump ship. My honest answer? NOPE. EVE aint going carebear in my opinion. Originally by: Dianabolic Your tears are absolutely divine, like a fine fine wine, rolling down your cheeks until they flow down the river of LOL
Maximillian Bayonette White Lion Manufacture and Salvage	Posted - 2008.08.12 16:25:00 - [94] Originally by: Mordekai Bloodwake I never said Eve doesnt attract players, its their retention. i would dare say perhaps 3 out of 10 players that use the trial period to test eve stay while the rest leave, thats not a good number to increase subscription and will be hard to see eve put out quality expansions, fix bugs and continue to invest in a lag free fleet combat if they can not staff enough developers to do so. CCP has managed to do so for 5 years, and the amount of subscribers have steadily gone up. If anything, this current trend of carebearization will make the subscriber trend turn and plummet.
Lt Angus Caldari Lt Angus Corp	Posted - 2008.08.12 16:32:00 - [95] Originally by: Cailais Well if the definition of a 'carebear' is carrying out an activity with no risk then surely - Suiciding freighters and Deccing helpless nubs Must fall into the carebear domain. No? C. how you guys changed the definition of carebear to something so unrelated is behond me, i miss the good old days Shhhh, Im hunting Badgers
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.08.12 16:35:00 - [96] Originally by: Mordekai Bloodwake Originally by: Ruze Originally by: Mordekai Bloodwake Well like it or not CCP is already hard trucking looking for a higher subscriber base. A great example is seeing an Eve-Online commercial on the Sci-Fi channel, i mean if that doesnt scream MORE MORE MORE then i dont know what will! And as much as i hate to say it, CCP will have to cater to the masses in order to attract more players and that means getting way from its (as you called it) 'niche' subsection and more mainstream and player friendly. But you seem to refuse to accept that EvE attracts more players each day, without yet 'catering to the masses', so to speak. Their market so far has grown from word of mouth, etc. As it continues to grow and is marketed better, it will get many thousands of players who come on, see that they don't like EvE, then leave. But there will always be that strong percentage who come online, see how EvE is different, rise to the challenge, and stay. I'm hoping that CCP doesn't bend to 'keep' that already fickle player surge. In my opinion, there's nothing wrong with people finding out they don't like EvE. You can't please everyone. I never said Eve doesnt attract players, its their retention. i would dare say perhaps 3 out of 10 players that use the trial period to test eve stay while the rest leave, thats not a good number to increase subscription and will be hard to see eve put out quality expansions, fix bugs and continue to invest in a lag free fleet combat if they can not staff enough developers to do so. And yet, if you substantially increase the playerbase as your talking, specifically if that portion of the playerbase wants only to play an easy, single-player game in hisec, then you are also investing MORE lag. The money goes to CCP, which runs EvE. But the money made off subscribers doesn't go directly to EvE. CCP is making enough profit to advertise, to buy out other game designers (White Wolf merger), to produce other games (see info regarding the Ambulation project), and to market all those nice magazines and side products, including card games, etc. CCP is not equivicolly equal to EvE. And CCP is a business that is expanding and branching itself out. While we both agree on this, I don't think CCP's primary interest is or should be gaining massive amounts of playerbase, quickly. If anything, I think they have slowly and steadily grown. This is a good thing, too, because our player numbers and activities have always pushed their hardware to the limit. A game growing seems far better than a game like Age of Conan, with hundreds of thousands of players off the bat, and crashing from the get-go. Some people just don't believe in the 'slow and steady' principle anymore. Hopefully CCP still does. So you want security? That's perfectly alright. But you should be willing to trade freedom and profit for that security.
Wendat Huron Stellar Solutions	Posted - 2008.08.12 16:35:00 - [97] Originally by: Lt Angus Originally by: Cailais Well if the definition of a 'carebear' is carrying out an activity with no risk then surely - Suiciding freighters and Deccing helpless nubs Must fall into the carebear domain. No? C. how you guys changed the definition of carebear to something so unrelated is behond me, i miss the good old days Would pedobear suit you better? Someone molesting the small, young and defenceless. These forums are FUBAR, upgrade this decade!
Sergeant Spot Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.08.12 16:36:00 - [98] At any time that players devise an effectively risk and/or cost free method of shooting other players, it has been nerfed, and will be nerfed. If you can't understand that, you are an idiot. If you don't approve of that, you are an idiot. Claiming risk/cost free methods of shooting other folks are not risk/cost free also means that you are an idiot. Play nice while you butcher each other.
Maximillian Bayonette White Lion Manufacture and Salvage	Posted - 2008.08.12 16:40:00 - [99] Originally by: Sergeant Spot At any time that players devise an effectively risk and/or cost free method of shooting other players, it has been nerfed, and will be nerfed. If you can't understand that, you are an idiot. If you don't approve of that, you are an idiot. Claiming risk/cost free methods of shooting other folks are not risk/cost free also means that you are an idiot. Unless they aren't, in fact, risk/cost free. Then claiming they are makes you an idiot.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.08.12 16:56:00 - [100] Originally by: Cpt Branko Originally by: Venkul Mul No. It is curbing a little the carebear part of the ganking community with the insurance change. How about curbing the carebear part of the carebear community for a change? They definitely have it way too easy. So you need to be subsidized by the insurance to get a return ganking someone? Are you so bad at it? With the insurance ganking someone cost practically 0. So even if you fail 50% of the time you will get ahead thank to the insurance. If you need this kind of help you are pretty bad at it. Originally by: Gamesguy the suicide ganking is merely an isk farming activity.
Cyd Vicious	Posted - 2008.08.12 16:59:00 - [101] No EvE can't go care bear. We need gankers, Pirates and war dec corps. The carebears with there endless mining and missionning, They rarely lose a ship and modules whitch is keeping injecting ISK into the market. Thats where pirates, gankers and war dec corp comes in play. The carebear got it easy in empire but not to easy so everything is in balance, to keep the market running.
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2008.08.12 17:02:00 - [102] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 12/08/2008 17:05:02 Yes, its going care bear. A dev blog called "Serious Security", signing off with "Be safe out there!"... I have nothing personally against CCP Fear, but I think it shows where CCP are heading. Eve is supposed to be a war game. Its like if Russia were to attack Georgian civilians and some alien race went in and destroyed their tanks....sigh. In war, not only enemy soldiers get shot at. --- Originally by: Roguehalo Can you nano Titans?
Wendat Huron Stellar Solutions	Posted - 2008.08.12 17:08:00 - [103] Edited by: Wendat Huron on 12/08/2008 17:10:48 Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 12/08/2008 17:06:32 Yes, its going care bear. A dev blog called "Serious Security", signing off with "Be safe out there!"... I have nothing personally against CCP Fear, but I think it shows where CCP are heading. Eve is supposed to be a war game. Its like if Russia were to attack Georgian civilians and some alien race went in and destroyed their tanks....sigh. In war, not only enemy soldiers get shot at. Civilians get killed in suicide attacks or other attacks. This is horrible in real life, but its exciting and fun in a computer game. But we who thinks so are in a minority, I know. I fail to see the relevance of that RL comparison. That change will make it easier to be a bountyhunter without getting confused with your prey, no harm no foul. These forums are FUBAR, upgrade this decade!
Sergeant Spot Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.08.12 17:08:00 - [104] Originally by: Cyd Vicious No EvE can't go care bear. We need gankers, Pirates and war dec corps. The carebears with there endless mining and missionning, They rarely lose a ship and modules whitch is keeping injecting ISK into the market. Thats where pirates, gankers and war dec corp comes in play. The carebear got it easy in empire but not to easy so everything is in balance, to keep the market running. While pirates and gankers do have their place, they don't remove isk from the market, they remove material wealth from an individual. Isk is only removed from the market when it is paid to an NPC (or when CCP removes purchased isk...) You can blow up and/or steal billions of isk "worth" of ships daily, and it will not remove even one isk from the economy. Play nice while you butcher each other.
Sergeant Spot Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.08.12 17:13:00 - [105] Speaking of economics.... CCP has always worked to have a vigorous in game economy. Any time players find a way to sabotage the economy, it will be nerfed (less of a current issue than the no risk/cost ganks, but still something to be aware of). You can pretty much count on CCP "NOT" doing anything that will throw a major wrench into the economy, be it the high sec economy, or the 0.0 economy. In fact, they'll do the opposite, they'll do things to keep them healthy and vigorous, including nerfs and buff as needed (but as always, nerfs being more likely...) Play nice while you butcher each other.
Lucy'Lastic	Posted - 2008.08.12 17:34:00 - [106] Edited by: Lucy''Lastic on 12/08/2008 17:34:48 Originally by: Ruze Some people just don't believe in the 'slow and steady' principle anymore. Hopefully CCP still does. Yes this makes perfect sense. CCP should limit the amount of new accounts that sign up every month in order for the game not to get too big too quickly. They should also stop people who already have an account opening a new one because they will be affecting the quota of 'new' of players that CCP have deemed to be a 'slow and steady' increase and 'good for business'. Infact they should stop all new subs until they have more hardware in place to support them. They could have a self imposed cap of 250k subscribers. This would improve your gaming experience how?
Black Scorpio	Posted - 2008.08.12 17:47:00 - [107] Originally by: Crazy Tasty Originally by: Cpt Branko I'm worried it is. Three-fold suicide gank nerf (insurance, plus faster concord response, plus increased sec hits), expected wardec nerf (with justifications like 'defenders lack control in the war' and 'wardecs are a pay for grief system'), all point out to EvE developers giving up the original idea and abandoning a lot of the ideas which were tossed about in the past even as part of user manual (security is your own responsibility,PvP-centric, risk/reward, etc). There's few other ships to jump to, unfortunately. Qft. Been playing for about 2 years and I've seen it happen a little at a time, some things not even publicly acknowledged (for example, my sig). Ah, look who's talking. It's a BYDI :D. And what has actually changed your camping Odelulf and Bosena in your usual pack? Not much i think.. And since you're all -10 anyway, what do you care about sec hit changes?
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2008.08.12 17:51:00 - [108] Originally by: Cailais Well if the definition of a 'carebear' is carrying out an activity with no risk... I don't think it is. In my view working out how to play the game without risk is not being a carebear. Asking the developers to remove risk from your aspect of the game makes you carebear :) -- (Sarcastic mission running veteran, 4+ years) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.08.12 17:59:00 - [109] Originally by: Lucy'Lastic Edited by: Lucy''Lastic on 12/08/2008 17:34:48 Originally by: Ruze Some people just don't believe in the 'slow and steady' principle anymore. Hopefully CCP still does. Yes this makes perfect sense. CCP should limit the amount of new accounts that sign up every month in order for the game not to get too big too quickly. They should also stop people who already have an account opening a new one because they will be affecting the quota of 'new' of players that CCP have deemed to be a 'slow and steady' increase and 'good for business'. Infact they should stop all new subs until they have more hardware in place to support them. They could have a self imposed cap of 250k subscribers. This would improve your gaming experience how? A) You kinda, um, made a whole bunch of suppositions there, didn't ya? B) There is a difference between taking measures to stop migration, and allowing it to flow as it already is. All I'm saying is that I hope CCP doesn't go trying to split PvE and PvP up because they want to inflate their playerbase quickly. The method they've been following has worked amazingly well. So you want security? That's perfectly alright. But you should be willing to trade freedom and profit for that security.
Viqtoria Caldari Groping Hand Social Club	Posted - 2008.08.12 18:28:00 - [110] grown men accusing each other of being carebears (as opposed to real men) over a computer game. jesus ****ing wept. to the OP, please, walk the plank. Please keep your signature on-topic.
althan gnartians Gallente Bipolar Barnstorming	Posted - 2008.08.12 18:58:00 - [111] Your seing a mass exodus from hi-sec atm because the current machanics screws the risk/reward balances for anyone that isn't triggered by griefing or lives as hisec gankers, of cause a lot of it is towards 0.0 and low sec thats becoming populated again with FW fleets roaming around and not actually leaving but... the nano is breaking CCP's primary goal of having all playstyles more or less equal. meaning that nano cant be a better survival stategy then a traditional tank in all situations, witch it seams to have become. Im not whining my main fits as many overdrives as anyone else but i can see the reason behind it.
Soleramnus Gallente	Posted - 2008.08.12 19:08:00 - [112] Originally by: Cpt Branko I'm worried it is. Three-fold suicide gank nerf (insurance, plus faster concord response, plus increased sec hits), expected wardec nerf (with justifications like 'defenders lack control in the war' and 'wardecs are a pay for grief system'), all point out to EvE developers giving up the original idea and abandoning a lot of the ideas which were tossed about in the past even as part of user manual (security is your own responsibility,PvP-centric, risk/reward, etc). Quote: Dev Blog "Serious Security": Since the beginning of EVE, security penalties have been flat throughout every region of space (excluding 0.0). It has basically meant that the "security level" of a system means nothing, as the same penalty goes in all spaces. Although CONCORD has faster response times in the higher securities, it has not changed the fact that penalties are the same. Through our research, we discovered that the balance between gaining standing and losing it was not in line with our intentions. It is too easy to gain back lost standing, taking only a few days to erase all the damage done by ganking. This is about to change. At least according to the dev blog, the current system was never in line with what they "originally wanted" like you said. It sounds more like it got off track, and now they're bringing it back to what it was supposed to be in the first place. Making High-Sec safe? Isn't that the way it's supposed to be anyway? And why is EVE "PvP-centered?" I thought it was a sandbox, do whatever-you-want game. PvP, PvE, or none of the above. No comment on 0.0 or lowsec.
Morino Heian Interstellar Cookies Distribution	Posted - 2008.08.12 19:10:00 - [113] Someone already mentioned this but I'm going to point this again. EVE does not have any competition when you consider game setting. It's the only meaningful MMO about spaceships. Space sims was a mini genre on its own back in the nineties. And now the question is, should CCP market EVE as a game about spaceships or maybe as a game for hardcore PvP-ers? You can play EVE like an action game (and PvP is in fact place where you will get most of juicy action) even despite the fact that this game dont have any skill based (it's more about knowledge and experience) ship control system, so it's not Wing Commander or X-Wing. But you can also treat EVE as a strategy game or a tycoon-style game. You can also play it like an MMO version of Privateer series (a mix of trading and some pewpew). It's NOT all about explosions and PvP gangbangs as some of you believe. EVE is still the most "sandboxed" MMO I know and this concept helps both combat and industrial characters. EVE will also still have the most harsh death penalty if you don't count the "hardcore" concept from some games (you die = character gone forever) which is always OPTIONAL. After the suicide gank changes which will(?) happen this year, EVE will be no more or less carebear friendly from how it is now. They are just trying to nerf (but not prevent!) the mindless NO RISK random ganks "for the lulz". And btw... yes, if someone is autopiloting a 10 bilion cargo in a industrial ship made of paper, he deserves to be ganked.
Zarlis The Scope	Posted - 2008.08.12 23:27:00 - [114] Originally by: Gretzel What are peoples honest opinions of EVE going care bear. Just wondering if this is time to jump ship. No not really. Its just the usual cycle of an mmo, Dev plans feature, player finds way to use/abuse feature that dev never planned. Dev adjusts feature. I would say that CCP have created a rod for their own back with the current round of nerfs and the resulting heat from the player base. If people are using/abusing features then the Devs need to move fast to stop it. CCP take so long to respond that its moved from a few people doing something to full on fotm and everyone get so used to how its working that they they expect it to continue like that forever.
Wendat Huron Stellar Solutions	Posted - 2008.08.12 23:41:00 - [115] CCP need to introduce an airbrush module where we can fly up to the enemy ship and paint a carebear on it, much like taking coup. Of course this abomination would only be visible to the pilots of the carebear fetish. These forums are FUBAR, upgrade this decade!
krelak	Posted - 2008.08.12 23:55:00 - [116] Edited by: krelak on 13/08/2008 00:10:53 In highsec? Sure, there's tons of them so what? In lowsec and nullsec much less so... of course I doubt you're complaining about those since they are the easy targets you seek. EVE is too "hands off" for the casual PvE player, lack of direct ship control and underdeveloped PvE elements I believe will cause most PvE players to look elsewhere when the competition exists. Don't get me wrong, I like EVE but I deal with enough adrenaline and frustration at work. I rarely PvP, sometimes it can be a fun way to blow off steam but usually I just want to relax. Most of those that remain will probably be the hardcore PvPers, though as you have noticed they are significantly fewer in number than the PvE players. I've found that to be true of most games. So, should you jump ship? I would make that decision based on whether you enjoy the game rather than if there are too many carebears in space. edit I realize that you're more upset by the rule changes being more PvE friendly rather than the fact that carebears exist. The problem however is that PvE greatly outnumbers PvP and so pays the bills. I think CCP has done an excellent job in trying to balance the two worlds, much better than in any other MMO I've played.
Cpt Branko Surge. NIght's Dawn	Posted - 2008.08.13 00:07:00 - [117] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 13/08/2008 00:08:21 Originally by: Black Scorpio And what has actually changed your camping Odelulf and Bosena in your usual pack? Not much i think.. And since you're all -10 anyway, what do you care about sec hit changes? You know the old one, which would, in EvE, go: First they came for the suicide gankers, but I wasn't a suicide ganker and lived in low-sec so I said nothing. Then they came for the wardeccers, but I wasn't a mercenary and didn't participate in wars so I said nothing. Then they came for low-sec, and there was nobody left to say anything. Basically, pirate solidarity. Naturally the changes don't impact low-sec pirates directly (although, indirectly, they do, of course - making high-sec even safer at same profit rates naturally dissuades people from looking elsewhere for money), but the carebearisation of EvE will get us all in the end if it continues at this rate. Furthermore, I find that dev blogs ending with 'be safe' are repulsive. I much preffered the 'have fun shooting each other in the face' endings of dev blogs Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.08.13 00:15:00 - [118] Originally by: Zeba Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton i wasn't agreeing or disagreeing with the nano nerf, just saying it was a bit strong. And since when have you guys been flying nanos? Drakes,Megas, Geddons and Command ships are all I've ever seen on your camps? Or have you branched out since my days at Friggi? Never quite took you as the hero type to take up causes that didn't effect you. nano + gateguns = fail and most of our losses are to nanos/falcons. and given our usual gang size/composition nanos and falcons really suck to fight against. and hell I haven't really been lowsec pirating in a few weeks now.
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.08.13 02:31:00 - [119] Originally by: Cpt Branko Edited by: Cpt Branko on 13/08/2008 00:08:21 Originally by: Black Scorpio And what has actually changed your camping Odelulf and Bosena in your usual pack? Not much i think.. And since you're all -10 anyway, what do you care about sec hit changes? You know the old one, which would, in EvE, go: First they came for the suicide gankers, but I wasn't a suicide ganker and lived in low-sec so I said nothing. Then they came for the wardeccers, but I wasn't a mercenary and didn't participate in wars so I said nothing. Then they came for low-sec, and there was nobody left to say anything. Basically, pirate solidarity. Naturally the changes don't impact low-sec pirates directly (although, indirectly, they do, of course - making high-sec even safer at same profit rates naturally dissuades people from looking elsewhere for money), but the carebearisation of EvE will get us all in the end if it continues at this rate. Furthermore, I find that dev blogs ending with 'be safe' are repulsive. I much preffered the 'have fun shooting each other in the face' endings of dev blogs The precursor to all of this was First they came for the privateers, and I said nothing. I said it at the time, we are on a slippery slope here unless the evil elements of CCP who are currently in ascension can be stopped by the righteous few devs. They need to organise and reach out to each other! I have faith that good MUST prevail, and the money men will be ejected. SKUNK
Astria Tiphareth Caldari 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2008.08.13 10:21:00 - [120] Originally by: Le Skunk I said it at the time, we are on a slippery slope here unless the evil elements of CCP who are currently in ascension can be stopped by the righteous few devs. They need to organise and reach out to each other! I have faith that good MUST prevail, and the money men will be ejected.SKUNK My you have some funny ideas about how companies run... If you feel so strongly, why don't you go apply and do some 'good'? That you attribute a series of intentions and attributes to a bunch of people you have never met based solely on the tiny interactions between CCP and the game says much for your state of mind. I do find it amusing that people are already complaining about changes they've never even seen (the only mention of changes to wardecs was that they wish to examine it - there have been no dev blogs or announcements about it or what they actually intend). I stick to my original point that I think a lot of veterans are imposing their own view of EVE over the actual CCP vision and getting annoyed that how dare CCP not listen to them. Do I promote safety and coddling? Never. Do I think the current systems have flaws that the devs are trying to fix? Yes. Too many on these forums have lost all perspective except their own, and therefore are in no position to actually engage in reasonable discussions about things affecting everyone in the game. ___ My views may not represent those of my corporation or alliance, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties...

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